¶ Residency Interview and Life Updates
So student Dr Volney , you are here at Docs Outside the Box Surgery Residency .
Oh Lord .
Tell us about yourself .
So my name is Renee Volney , and I'm here to say I love surgery in a major way .
Oh , so you're not serious .
Yes , I am a student at Kansas City University .
College of Osteopathic Medicine Doesn't like eye contact .
Why are you doing this ? This is an interview I think I remarked about myself very early on in life . I was very good with my hands . I used to help my mom bake cakes . There were times when I had to kind of we grate right , you grate like lemons and things like that .
She thinks this is a bakery . X her off . Folks , your exciting new medical career . It's just been hit with a serious illness or injury that stops you from earning a paycheck just when you need it most . Check out what Jamie Fleissner of Cephalife Insurance said back on episode 176 about having disability insurance early in your career .
The real reason to get it early on is really twofold . One is to protect your insurability . So if you are healthy and you can obtain the coverage , you also pre-approve yourself to be able to buy more in the future . So down the road , as your income does increase , you don't have to answer additional medical questions .
All you have to do is show that your income is increased and you can buy more benefits .
At that time , no medical questions asked is increased and you can buy more benefits at that time . No medical questions asked . Protect your income , secure your future . Check out setforlifeinsurancecom . Yup , what's good everyone . It is Dr Nii . I'm joined by my lovely wife and co-host .
Dr Renee , it's been a long time .
So we've been putting out episodes y'all . But sometimes we batch the episodes and we record maybe four or five episodes ahead of when they're coming up . So it's been a minute since me and you have recorded together . I feel like we should be doing a full episode , but we don't have time to do a full episode . But just listen y'all .
We're going to be coming with an episode about what's going on with the ceo shooting in new york city and then being caught in central pa in our backyard , our old backyard . Then we're gonna be talking about what else we gotta talk about .
There's a lot of stuff to really talk about that we're not gonna address , I'm saying , but we just know there's a lot going on so you're doing this episode yeah , I'm doing this episode , guys . Y'all don't know . Renee like constantly wants to do an episode I did .
You told me I was going to be doing this episode and I said to you I know what's going to happen as soon as you hit record you're going to just take over . So I don't even know why you ever tell me oh , you're going to run this episode that's not .
I'm not running this episode , guys , did I ? Did I take over this episode ?
you just introduced everything and said what we're going to be talking about .
But there's other ways that you can take over an episode .
No .
Your effervescence .
No , your energy no . Your you know the way you speak so well .
No .
Guys , you know what I'm talking about , right ? No , all right .
So what's this episode about ? Y'all ?
Oh , now you want my opinion . What's this episode about , anywho ? So we're not gonna be talking about any of that , um , just yet . You're correct .
Um , we might just touch on it a little bit , but today , actually , what we're gonna be talking about is the residency interview , since we are in the midst of the residency interview season and , you know , when we talk about medicine , particularly medical careers , I think it's important to kind of not start from scratch , because that would be going all the way
back to pre-med , but definitely go back a little bit into time and address kind of some of the things that I think we've all either experienced as physicians or are going to experience as a physician , I'd have to say whether it was applying to medical school , applying to residency .
getting ready for the interview was the last thing I prepared for .
Oh yeah .
I never even thought about it . I was just like well , I mean , if they're inviting me , then I'm 75% of the way there and I'll just be myself .
Yeah .
That's why I got rejected from all the schools . From medical school , you mean .
The first time I applied . I had a couple of interviews . I probably destroyed them because of my interview .
Well , yeah , I mean , I think people take for granted , can you talk yourself out ?
What do you mean ? Can you talk yourself out of a position ?
Absolutely , that's why they invite you , right . I Absolutely that's why they invite you right . I think you're right . It's one of the last things that people prepare for , not realizing exactly how important it is . And you're right , you're about 75% , if not more .
You are so few spots in comparison to the number , the sheer number of interviews that you know that they give , and you're just competing it's . You're competing on a whole different level , and then you add the added dynamic of the algorithm for you know , for the match . So I think that one's .
You know the residency interview is a little bit different , just a little bit different , but you still could potentially talk yourself how do you know if you talked yourself out right ?
basically what I'm saying is if you are applying to medical school , you get an interview . Obviously they are interested in you . How do you know that the reason you got waitlisted or the reason why you didn't get in was because of your interview ? You might not that's .
That's what I'm saying . The difference yeah , you just between medical school and the residency interview , right like it's just very different because you have that match component . So , but anyway , we're going to be talking about that residency interview .
We got a question from vincent o um and I believe he is I don't know what he says I don't think he says what he doesn't say what level yeah , what level he is , but he does leave a question .
Yeah , he does leave a question , but before we get to that question , just wanted to kind of update our audience as to what the heck is going on up here . Um , with the darkos . So so what you been up to , that's the knee . Oh , that's the dramatic pause that I said that you were gonna take , so now you taking it .
Yeah , okay , what you been up to don't know what I've been up to like why .
You ask me why you got to learn how to live and now in the dead it now don't .
don't give people dead air , what you been up to , there's been a lot that I've been up to . Yeah .
Without sounding Listen , y'all Like .
Life be life .
If you're watching on YouTube right now , you know that you probably can see the veins in my head just engorged on the side of my head , because there's a lot of stuff that's going on . We purchased a house and I am 90 percent happy about it and 10 percent not happy about it , not because of the house , but of the process of getting the house .
And I'm , um , you know , like , you know how , like there's that 80 20 rule , right , like with relationships , and there's like you kind of look at the 80 20 just in life , right , like you have something that gives you 80 joy .
Why are you focusing on the 20 of something that you're really either neither going to attain , right , or is really not really worth trying to go after it , right ?
So , for me , like , I'm 90 95 happy that we got this house , but there's just one small little thing that happened to us during the process of closing that I'm super pissed about yeah and um , we're gonna talk about that on another episode .
Yeah , we'll talk about another episode , but it's just have some things to resolve , but we homeowners I'm excited about it . Um , I just for me , um , there's a couple of things . It's bittersweet because , you know , I feel happy to be in this neighborhood , like we , like I mentioned in a previous episode , I'm super psyched about that .
I'm happy to set some roots in one place and to be in a school district that we feel comfortable to put our kids in . I'm happy about that . The other side of me , I'm not happy about these damn house prices , prices , shit .
You know , like , in all essence , I feel like we have a regular house , but anybody who is used to living in a high cost of living neighborhood knows what we're talking about . Like a regular , you know , three and a half bedroom or four bedroom , two bath type spot is mad loot .
And just because you're paying a large amount of money doesn't mean that it looks like it's a large amount of money in the house , if you know what I mean . So that's one thing that's going on . So we're super psyched about that .
Yeah , yeah , yeah , I think yeah .
Let me fix your microphone while you're talking .
I'm with you on the house .
They're just yeah , we definitely have talked about it on a different episode about just kind of the process of buying a house and the potential , the potential to have strife with a seller and even with your own attorney , so that we will need to talk about a little bit later on Other things that are going on , other things that are going on , other things that
are going on . So I think I think we talked about this on the show before , but that I spent a month in a canadian hospital yeah with my mom . We talked about it .
It feels like a while ago , but it feels like a while ago , but it really wasn't yeah it , yeah it , it was , yeah , a little bit more than well .
we're going on like two months ago .
¶ Medical Experience and Residency Preparation
Long story short the healthcare experience , I think for you was a shocker right .
Yeah , and I don't know if it's positive . There were certain things that were shocking .
I don't know if it's positive or if it's negative , but it's just not the way in which you're used to have , the way in which you guys would be used to seeing in the United States .
Yeah , there were certain things that were shocking and other things that were kind of refreshing . You know , very quickly I'll just . I will just say that two things . I'm going to mention two things . So one was that there was a communal bathroom . So there was not a bathroom in the room .
Right , and this is an admitted patient post-op , there was no bathroom in the room . Now that was kind of weird at first , but then I realized it was actually to my mother's advantage . My mother was the one that was admitted . It was to her advantage because it forced her to walk . Right . We're always all ambulate the patient , ambulate the patient .
It's like , you know , you come in , you ask the patient did you ambulate ? You know , did you walk ? And they're like , yeah , I walked to the bathroom . You look at the bathroom , it's like two steps away . You're like , okay , that's not walking , but this my mother , and then walk all the way back .
So that was definitely a plus , whereas I thought it started out as a minus . It really was a plus . And then the other thing was that the pharmacist came to her bedside . The pharmacist showed up twice at her bedside to confirm meds , to change meds , to basically take care of her meds , and I was like what are you doing here ?
I literally asked the pharmacist what are you doing here ? And she was like yeah , you know , we come and we just , you know , take care of some things . So I thought that that was pretty interesting . And now I'll mention one more thing they bathe the patients .
What do you mean ? They bathe them they bathe them .
They sent somebody every day for like the first three days while my mother still had her folium . If you had a folium , they came in and they bathed you .
They gave you in your like a birdbath . Yeah , okay , they came in and they bathed you .
I don't think they do that very often in uS hospitals anymore .
They do . It's just in my experience . It's a you have to ask for that type of treatment , the pharmacist . I've seen that .
I think in trauma you see that more often because you see pharmacists either in the ED you see pharmacists in critical care and , depending on what the resources of the hospital is like , you'll see that on the floor also , so I'm not completely shocked about that Okay . The communal part . I wonder if that's just a really old hospital . It might be .
You know before it might be , you know even though , like nowadays , you go to the hospitals in the United States like the big thing now is just one person per room and there's a bathroom there Right . But , like you know , decades ago , which most hospitals are still in , it's two people per hospital sharing a bathroom .
But I think before , that is , you know , depending on where in Canada you're at you know it's a communal bathroom probably .
So yeah , it was a pretty old hospital . The hospital looked like something out of seriously like something out of 1973 , actually even before St Elsewhere I used to think that it was like not that big of a deal , yeah .
And then we started getting it , maybe about two .
Well , we definitely got it for our Started for Ghana .
We got it for our trip to our honeymoon trip right . We got travel insurance when we were going to New Zealand , bali and- . Australia and Australia because there were places that we were going to that we just didn't know , like , um , australia and australia . Because there were places that we were going to that you just didn't know .
Like we're going to the outback and it's like what , if I get appendicitis out there , what we're gonna do .
But even then , I was like man , it's a waste of money .
We only need this . And then , once we started going to ghana , specifically with the kids , yes with the , with our firstborn . That's when we're like let's get travel insurance and , um , this opportunity was one of those like , yeah , like your mom should have had travel insurance .
Well , thank goodness she has Medicare because she is elder . So Medicare , you know , covers at least her plan . I don't know if it's all of Medicare , but it covers international . So luckily , you know , even without the travel insurance , she did well . But you know , I just started thinking insurance .
She did well , but I , you know , I just started thinking cause my brother was out there with them and I was like , oh my God , what if this had happened to my brother ? So , uh , cause he is not quite elder yet and he would have needed travel insurance . But anyway , um , that's what's been good . That's the only a glimpse of what's been going on .
There's a lot going on in the household , out in the world . You mentioned the thing with the UnitedHealthcare CEO and potentially finding the killer in Altoona , where we lived for six years . So that was a little bit of a shocker and yeah , so why ?
don't we get into this question I'm running this episode yeah , let's jump into this episode I'm I'm running the episode gotcha go ahead , go ahead so anyway , we're gonna jump into this question no matter where you are in your career .
You've seen patients your age or younger get seriously injured , have a long-term illness or even have a mental health issue that affects their ability to work . Now what if that was you ? No , for real . What if that was you ? Without disability insurance , how are you going to replace your paycheck ?
In episode 176 , jamie Fleissner of Cephalife Insurance explains why the best time to buy disability insurance is during your residency .
Most people , most physicians , acquire their disability policies during residency , and there's several reasons . First of all , when you're younger , you're able to obtain the insurance because they ask you a whole host of medical history and so you usually don't get healthier over time .
Usually you get less healthy over time , so when you're healthy , it's easier to acquire the coverage . Number two it's also less expensive because it's based on your age and your health . You're not getting younger or healthier over time , so you're at the ideal time . The earlier you get it and the younger you are , the less expensive it's going to be .
So , whether you're a resident or you're an attending , it's never too late to protect your income . Renee and I , we use Set for Life Insurance to find a disability policy that fit our needs and budget . So what are you waiting for ? Check out setforlifeinsurancecom Once again . That's setforlifeinsurancecom .
All right . So , like I said , we have a question about the residency interview from Vincent .
Oh , it sounds like Vincent might be a maybe PG or PG excuse me , ms , three or four , but the question says I suggest you do an episode on residency interviewing skills one on one panel group , how to answer comment interview questions like tell me about yourself , how to leave a positive , lasting impression . A role play with Dr Renee would be great .
I don't know if we're going to do a role play .
All right , let's jump right into this . I'm going to knock on the door . No , no , no , no , no , no , that's what we're going to do .
No , I don't want to do that . I don't want to do that Like . This makes no sense . I don't want to do that . Can we just talk ?
about the question . Don't come in . He's knocking on the door , don't ?
come in . Hi , I'm , I'm , I'm perspective .
I'm perspective student doctor , knee dark oh yeah . And I'm interested in coming to the school , so let's talk .
Yeah , ok , so to answer this interview question , let's talk first about kind of the gamut of questions , right that you mentioned , right One on one's panel and group , and people may not understand especially the difference between panel and group , right
¶ Interview Formats
. So the one on one is very easy you meet with an interviewer , you're the student candidate and they're the interviewer and you're just kind of having a one to one conversation . The panel is actually when you have a panel of interviewers , right ?
So you're one student , one candidate who's coming in and you're getting a panel of people and they're asking you questions , they're firing questions at you , and then the group is when you have a group of students , a group of candidates being interviewed , potentially by a panel and or one other person . So I think that's important to kind of decipher .
How common are these things ?
So I think the one-to-one is actually the most common . I personally have not had and over the years have not had students tell me that they've either had a panel or a group Definitely not a group .
Have you seen panel for residency ? I've seen panel for residency .
Yeah , that's what I was going to say . Maybe a panel , but definitely not a group Group . I would see more for medical school , but not for residency .
I have not seen that . And what about virtual ?
Virtual . So it seems like now most people are doing a virtual component right . Most programs since COVID have moved to the virtual interview and many , many candidates are now doing the virtual component . Um , I still prefer if I were interviewing , I'd have to say I would still prefer to go and see the place .
Um , especially if you're not very familiar with the hospital because you don't know what , let me tell you something seeing the hospital can tell you a lot about that place , a lot I went .
I remember I went on one interview and I went to this hospital and that the hospital was so old and dingy I was like there is no way the so the school was at the hospital so no , this was a community program no , this is a residency program .
Yeah , I got . Oh , this is a residency program . Yeah , I got you . Yeah , this was a community program , I'm thinking med school .
No , no , no , no residency . So I , when I visited the hospital , I was like this place is so dingy I didn't even rank it , I didn't even . I was like I cannot think of myself being here for four years . So I mean , I know a lot of people are doing virtual interviews and just kind of , you know , it saves money , saves time . I get that .
Um , but if there is a program that you really really like and they give you the opportunity to do it in person , I would actually recommend doing in person so you can get it can get expensive .
So , absolutely , look , I don't know , I don't know the answer to all of this stuff . I think that if I had an opportunity . If I had an opportunity , I probably just try to do like half and half .
You know , half at virtual , virtual interviews at places that I wasn't ranking very high and then personal interviews at places that I was ranking very high , because I just remember it being expensive from getting a hotel flight . I remember the first time I had my experience with Priceline and I completely messed it up . Yeah , I had an interview at Meharry .
I had an interview at Meharry . This is from med school and I didn't know how I was gonna pay for a flight to get to Tennessee , so I said I'll try Priceline . This is if I tell y'all . This is like 90 , this is 99 .
So this is like the early .
This is early , early . Priceline 98 , 99, . Yeah , I'm old , I'm old and I just remember buying a ticket through there and I made a mistake as to when I was supposed to get there and so forth . But guys remember , this is not the price line that you know now where price line finds you the best price . This is no . You're bidding for bidding for price .
I remember that they come back to you with a price . So you say I only want to spend 200 bucks and I'm like , ok , like okay , well , your flight will leave at 430 in the morning and get there five days later and you're gonna stop in a North Pole and you can't do anything about it . I'm like so that's what happened to me .
It wasn't that exaggerated , but it was a very inconvenient time of leaving in a very inconvenient time . As a matter of fact , it was like after I was supposed to interview oh god yeah , and I couldn't get my money back and you know , like I had spent , like on a credit card , like 200 something dollars , which for me was a big deal .
Then , right , like we're talking , you know I'm not even what we're talking .
I'm 20 at that time right yeah , I'm 20 or 21 at that time .
So for me , using my credit card , losing out on 200 bucks , that was a big deal . I was embarrassed to even go to my parents and ask them . You know what to do . I didn't . I never asked them for help in that situation . I just kind of figured out a way to pay it back and stuff .
I still paying it back right now , you know four thousand dollars later so that's why , for me , he was just like I . Like I , if I had to do it again , I would just say probably half and half .
You know , because you know nowadays a lot of people are ranking , applying to a lot of different schools , you know , just to increase their chances of getting into that one place . And I get it . You know , what happened 30 years ago is the same thing that's happening now . Right so um , I would try to do .
I would try to do that Half and half , yeah , yeah .
No , I agree with that strategy . I think that's a smart economic .
Yeah , it's a blast from the past .
It's a cost-efficient solution , but one of the questions that Vincent wanted answered was kind of answering that common interview question of tell me about yourself . Let me tell you something that is one of the hardest questions .
I feel like it's a trick .
It might be , but it's one of the hardest questions to answer , no matter what , no matter where you are in the process , right ? Whether it's pre-med or ?
why is it hard ? Why is it hard ?
because there's so many things to say about yourself . Number one people feel like there's so much to say . I'm a people person yeah , I'm gonna tell you what not to say but in the second but people feel like there's so much to say . That's number one . Number two people think that they're bragging if they say certain things and people don't want to brag .
Correct .
And that's a huge problem , because if you look at it as a opportunity to brag right which bragging has a negative connotation then two things are going to happen Either you are going to brag and you're going to come off cocky , or you're not going to want to brag , you're not going to showcase enough about yourself .
Okay so there has to be some sort of happy medium .
Why do they ask this question ? That's what I want to know . Right , because they , because they've read . They've read your application .
Maybe it might be a blind interview , so you might not have somebody how often does it occur ?
Um , I don't know how often , but I mean often enough , I get a lot of students who say that you know , my interview was blind okay , yeah , so they don't get your application , they just meet you and that's at that point , though that's not all the time , though that's if you get a blind interview , though yeah , that's if you get a blind interview .
Yeah so I guess what I'm saying is , let's say you don't get a blind interview right let's say , someone has read your file , someone has read all of these different things . Right , because sometimes , at least from my perspective , what I'm seeing is the interviewer doesn't even know what they're going to ask you .
Yeah , they just start asking you questions when they see you , right ? So if they've gone through your application , they've seen your grades , they've seen your letter of recommendations . Um , I don't know what else they get to see . What else is in there ?
it might be your , your personal statement your personal statement .
So then , when you come in right or like , why are they asking , tell us about yourself . Is that like a filler ? Is that ? Trying to see are you someone who's braggadocious ? That's what I'm interested it might be .
It might just be . You know how are you going to answer this question . What is the most important thing that you want me to take away from this particular interview ?
should you be trying to go back and like well , what did I write in my personal statement ?
and stuff so you could . You could pull bits and pieces . I wouldn't necessarily , you know , memorize word-for-word what you put in your personal statement , but one of the things that I tell students a lot of times is , when you are asked that question okay , understand that . This is an opportunity to advocate for yourself , right ?
So you can say the word brag if you want , but the reality is- .
Toot your own horn .
Yeah , the reality is , this is the opportunity for you to advocate for yourself , right , because who else is going to advocate for you ? This is your opportunity to do that . So one of the things that I tell my students is figure out what the theme of your interview is going to be .
If you come in with a theme of what your interview is going to be , what you know , the overall arching , the overarching thing that you want this person to remember about you , that's where you start building . It is in that question .
Okay , so you're saying that you can take control of the interview or you can have a sense of control . Because I think that's the other thing . A lot of folks just feel like they're walking into something and they don't have control . Right , so it's well , how can I prepare for this ?
Yeah , Right , I mean right , but remember that the whole point of it is for you to be able to showcase yourself . So in that sense , absolutely , you have a lot of control over this interview . You may not have control over the questions that they ask you , but you have . You have control over the answers , and so you know , I call it what I usually say .
Oh my gosh , I say there's something that I that I usually say to my students but yeah , essentially you can be like one , like a person on , on , like a commentating , you know , interview like news interview .
Right .
Yeah , like a pundit , where they or you , they or somebody who comes in to advocate for something right and they ask them a question and they spin that question right To whatever three points right . So cable news your interviews . That's what I usually say to my students . Cable news your interviews right . View cable news , your interviews .
Then what you're doing is you are coming in and there is a message that you want to give . You see , I'm already doing the politician hands . That's the common .
Right , that's . That's that every politician . That's what she does .
Right , the politician . You know the little fist with the thumb at the top , and then you just hit it .
I did not .
You hit it , you hit it . Right , exactly With with that woman , Miss Lewinsky . Right , exactly With that woman , Miss Lewinsky .
Okay , you remember what you were doing that time . That was what 99? .
Oh my God , Was it 99 ?
That's the same time I bought my ticket , I think oh my God , that's the same day you bought your ticket . That was crazy .
But yeah , you cable news your interviews , in that you figure out what are the three things that you want your interviewer to to come away with and you theme all of your answers around that particular , those particular themes , right ? So if you decide that your theme is you know your theme is going to be that you are a how about this ?
how about this ? Let's say I am , I'll do me right and then you tell me you , give me your advice so I um , I don't know mcats were uh mcat , we passed way past no , I'm letting you know who I am okay and then . But this is what I have and this is what I'm expecting , right okay , so you tell me , you give me your advice . So my mcats are average .
¶ Residency Interview Strategies and Advice
My letters of recommendation are in my opinion strong you mean your board scores or your MCAT .
This is medical school .
No , we're interviewing for residency , oh we are Okay .
It's a residency interview question . Oh , they did say that . Okay , sorry my bad . My board scores are average , right . My letters of recommendation are strong in my opinion , right . What did I say ? That's not I mean you from the previous thing when you corrected me , because you still ? Need letters of recommendation .
You said your MCAT , but before but after that . Then what do you mean ? What do you know ? I said okay , not okay , anyway my letters of recommendation are good . Okay , what else do you have to do for that , for your Dean's letters ? I mean , for your dean's letters . I mean it's a dean's letter , it's a dean's letter right .
Okay , and I am interviewing , at the best , my number one program that I want to go to . I haven't ranked it yet . This is the number one program I want to go to . This is surgery program . So give me your advice . What do I do ? Remember average board scores .
Yes , ok , which that's another thing that kind of sets this apart Usually from your didn't flunk any classes . Ok that you know those things do matter .
The average student .
I get it Right , but good looking Good , looking At this guys .
Good looking , keep going , you done .
Hey , hey , this is me okay . Uh , first thing that I would tell you , first thing I would ask you is you know what are the things that you think you're good at ? Right , that's important , that's tough , but you have to pick something , okay . So what are the things that ?
I'm good at . I'm good at um . I'm really good at like . I feel like I'm good at like um dexterity I'm feeling good at dexterity , right . Um , I feel like I'm really passionate and like like following through on things like . I feel like I work well in the team . Um what I really enjoy surgery . I really enjoy the aspects of surgery .
So I feel like I'm good at like anatomy and things like that it comes naturally to me , Okay .
So then I would ask you how do you know that you're good at those things ? My grades .
Right .
That's it . You know that you're good with your hands because of your grades .
My grades for anatomy are really good , top notch .
Anything else about anything else about right , anything else about you being , you know , really good at anatomy , that oh like and I've done some .
I've done rotations like I did ER and I did family medicine and they let me do some suture like repairs and stuff . And they always comment , like you know . Student Dr Darko , like your hand technique is really good . Like you seem to be able to .
You know approximate very well and you always anticipate , like if I'm helping them with their suture lacerations or any procedures . I'm really good at anticipating what they need next also .
OK , very good , Look at your face . Goody , two shoes .
Goody , two shoes and I wear a bow tie . When I come and when I go on my rotations I wear a bow tie .
Yeah , very good . And also you said that you were , you were passionate about what ? Now ? Surgery , you're back . No , you said something before that .
Didn't I say that it was anatomy or surgery ? I think I'm passionate about surgery .
OK , you're passionate about surgery .
¶ Effective Interviewing
OK , how do you demonstrate your passion about surgery , like how , what ?
what are some ways that ?
you demonstrated that well . I've done some research . When surgery like you know my surgery rotation I did some some minor research . I'm constantly interested in like the different types of surgical , like surgical field . Like I'm really into like what neurosurgery is about , general surgery , I just enjoy the process .
No , no , no . How did you demonstrate that ?
That's what I want to know . That's a good question .
Right , how did you demonstrate ? Because here , so I'm making a distinction .
I was what do you call it ? Yeah , I was like in charge of my the what's that thing ? What the interest group in my school okay yeah , okay , so I was like president of it or whatever you don't what do they start on surgery groups ? Of course they do interest groups yeah interest groups .
I was like I was the president of that okay that's it that's it okay .
You also stated that you are a team player . How do you demonstrate that ?
I mean all of my rotations . I'm always there to assist because I , for me , I realize that the only way that I can learn really is by one humbling myself and realizing and letting people know like , hey , maybe I can assist you so that I can see what you're doing and kind of like , see one , teach one . What do you call it ?
See one , do one teach one that type of thing . So for me , I feel like I'm always like in that team cooperative approach of you know , let me watch and see what you're doing , or let me assist you and then hopefully with that , you'll trust me to let me do something on my own also . So I'm always about making the team better .
OK , so was about the making the team better , okay , so some of your answers were really good , okay , and some of your answers were very generic . Okay , and that's what I work on with my students , right ? I ? I let them know you have the theme , but the theme cannot be you just generally speaking the entire time , right ?
what you want is stories okay right , what you want is stories , because stories especially because they tend to go chronologically right there , they tend to have some sort of timeline that you can follow stories tend to stick very well with people and they allow the listener to be more anticipatory .
Right , they want to anticipate what is , what is it that you're going to say , right ?
So , if you , you know , if I ask you , well , if you , how do , how do I it that you're going to say , right , so , if you , you know , if I ask you , well , if you , how do , how do I know that you're passionate about surgery and you say , well , I'm interested in this and I'm interested in that and I'm interested in the other thing .
I , you know , I've done some research and whatever it's like . Okay , you mentioned that you did research . The question now then becomes right , why didn't you talk about the research that you were doing ? Right , what ? How ? You know , what was the process by which you contributed either to this research or that you completed this research ?
And then , what do you expect to come from this research ? Because that's something that a listener can hold on to , right , like , oh , me , darko , he's the one that's doing surgery or he's the one that's doing research on . You know the surgical complications of , you know soldiers in Iraq , right , and figuring out you know what .
You know what things are , you know what's the I don't know . Whatever . It is right , but you want to , you want to have some sort of detail . So stories is going to be the first thing that you're going to do in order to really compel the listener , the interviewer .
Right , yes , you agree , yeah , okay , the other thing you want to avoid , the other thing you want to avoid , the other thing you want to avoid , so stories . I'm keeping notes on my whiteboards .
Okay , so I'm creating a story .
You're creating a story .
Who , what , when , where and how right .
That's how you do a story and why . Okay . The other thing is you want to avoid a laundry list , what I call the grocery list of adjectives . I'm a people person , I'm compassionate , I'm this , I'm that Right , I'm accustomed to . I'm accustomed to that .
There we go .
I'm accustomed to that .
Another thing that people don't know what you're talking about .
Okay .
Alfred , if he can figure that out .
Alfred , can you figure ?
that out .
If he can figure that out . Alfred , can you figure that out ? So you don't want a long list , a laundry list of adjectives , right ? So tell a story , but be very plain about how you . So this is the important thing about the laundry list you can tell a story and the laundry list will be made in the interviewer's head .
Okay , so let the interviewer come up with that by himself .
come at the interviewer come up with a conclusion , right , judge Judy ? She always says right , like just tell me what happened and I will come to the conclusion as to what the situation . Is right , but you got to tell me the details before .
I could come . Okay , so hold on , so hold on . So if someone says , tell me about yourself yeah how do you start with that ?
so you can just tell a story about your life that hits the points that you want that person to know .
So if you want them to know that you're a team player , if you want them to know that you have good dexterity , if you want them to know that you're passionate about surgery , then what you do is you create a chronological story in your head that goes it hits every single one of those themes .
For the question of tell me about yourself but that particular theme right , that formula is going to go throughout the interview . You're going to tell stories . You don't want to be so generic in talking to the interviewer that the interviewer then melds every single thing that you said with the next five interviews that they had .
So is it possible that you're , is it possible that you can , a very successful interview ? Is you telling a series of stories ?
Yes , that really is . Yes , okay , you have to tell a bunch of stories . Yes , that really is yes , okay . You have to tell a bunch of stories because you need the interviewer to come to the conclusion of who you are .
So how about this ? So let's say , ask me the question .
Okay , tell me about yourself .
Well , should I just say like so . There was a time when , you know , I was on my fourth year internship , sub-i internship .
Well , you can introduce yourself . You know , hi , I'm Nidarko . I'm Nidarko .
My name is Nid and I'm from Jersey . You know what I'm saying ? New Jerus . You know what I'm saying ? Irvington . You never heard that . No , that's because you're from Brooklyn , drew's , I'm from Irvington and listen more about me . So listen , I am interested in surgery and I'm very much interested in surgery for so many different reasons .
See , I'm getting nervous even myself , and I've gone through exactly right . So I want to go into a story . So how do I go into the story of like , why I'm interested in all this stuff ? Because I do have a good story hold on , so that that .
So the first thing was the story , the second thing was . The second thing was don't , don't create a laundry list . Allow the , allow the interviewer right to create the laundry list list of adjectives for you , right ? And then the third thing oh , dang it .
But how do you forget ? But how do you transition to the story ? Hold on a second .
You maybe , oh , dang it , you keep made me forget the last of 13 . But how do you transition to the story ? Hold on a second . You made me oh , dang it , you keep making me forget because you're talking so okay let's talk about I'm a surgeon .
we talk . And we interrupt . You . Yell , you yell . I've never yelled at you .
Okay , alfred , can you stop yelling at me please ? No , I can't stop yelling , because that's how I talk .
All right , we're getting kind of long in this interview , come on .
So how do you transition into a story ? Oh , this is what I was going to say . So you transition into your story by thinking about what it is that you actually want to convey , and what it is that everybody wants to convey is why you would be a good candidate for the program . If you have to talk about why you would be a good candidate for that program .
Right , that's the same way that I tell my premeds . You have to talk about why you would be a great doctor .
All right . So student Dr Volney , you are here at Docs Outside the Box surgery residency .
Oh Lord Tell us about yourself . So my name is Don't tell all these stories .
Get to the point .
It is Well , but I haven't themed it First of all .
You should have no .
But I haven't themed it . I will try to win it I have stumped , I have stumped the teacher . Teacher , teacher . I will try to wing it , it's easier for me to work with somebody who you know has already themed out everything or who I can help to theme out everything , but kind of using what you said already . Right , what did you say ?
You said that you have good dexterity . Let me write it down Dexterity . And then you said team . And then what else did you say ? Passionate about surgery .
Yeah , passionate .
Okay , okay , okay , he's still looking at you . Who's ?
looking at me , the interviewer .
Oh , that's the other thing . You don't have to answer a question right away , you can give seriously , you can tell your interviewer . Can you give me a minute , right ? Can you give me a minute so that I can organize my thoughts ?
All right Student Dr Volney .
Well , except for tell me about yourself , don't do that on tell me about yourself .
Welcome to Docs Outside the Box University . Residency surgery residency program . Tell me about yourself .
So my name is Renee Volney .
And I'm here to say I love surgery in a major way . Oh , so you're not serious .
Yes , so my name is Renee Volney .
¶ Personal Statement and Addressing Failures
I am a student at Kansas City University .
Doesn't like eye contact .
Yes , and why are you doing this ? This is an interview , right ?
Your interviewer doesn't say doesn't make eye contact , don't say that to you surgery to do , how would you know ?
you haven't done a surgery exactly so why are you interviewing me for surgery ? Anyway , how good you are , you're I can make a story out of anything . Go ahead anyway . I didn't say I could make a story out of anything but keep going , keep it going , keep going okay . So my name is , uh , renee volney and , um , what was I saying ?
My name is re Volney and what was I saying ? My name is Renee Volney . I'm a student at Kansas City University and let's say , you know , I grew up in Brooklyn . I grew up in Brooklyn , my family's of Haitian descent and you know , my parents came here in the early 70s and , you know , grew up in a very traditional household .
One of the things that I think I remarked about myself very early on in life was something that I think most people don't , and it's that I had very , I was very good with my hands .
When I was younger , I used to help my mom bake cakes and a lot of times , you know , there were times when I had to kind of we grate , right , you grate like lemons and things like that , which you know , when you're younger , you don't really think anything of it .
She thinks this is a bakery interview . X her off .
You don't think anything of it . But as you go on , you know you start to get more and more responsibility and you know , next level up was , you know , chopping vegetables , onions , things like that . And I remarked , you know , pretty early on , that I was really good at that , never really thought anything of it , never really thought anything of it .
But as I kind of moved on into you know my life and getting into medical school , one of the things that I found was that I had that same trait in surgery is that I was really good with my hands and that was something that was remarked very much on my surgery interview , my surgery rotations , my OBGYN rotations , my family medicine rotations .
She's bragging on herself . She'll never make it here . Keep going .
So I think you know , having that level of dexterity , either with baking , with cooking , even with sewing and crocheting , you know , from a very young age , really gave me the confidence to be able to use my hands and so you know , that's one of the things that really interests me about surgery is that I'm able to use my hands .
The other thing that interests me about surgery is the teams . Right , there are a lot of people who are involved in taking care of patients on the surgery rotation .
You know , from not just the doctors , the nurses , obviously , the residents , but you have , you know , all kinds of ancillary staff , social work and case managers , things like that , who come in and , you know , help the patients to do what it is that they need to do in order to get much better .
And I think the practice that I've gotten from working on a team is actually working with an organization that I was a part of in medical school and just understanding the dynamics , and then I would tell a story about , you know , when I had to work on some project , right , like that's what I would do .
I would tell a story . Right , I would tell a story .
I'd be like , you know , when I had to work on some project , right , like that's what I would do . I would tell a story , right , I would tell a story . I'd be like you know , for example , you know there was a time that we had to do X , y and Z project , blah , blah , blah , blah , blah .
I'll tell the story about , like , when we did the MBA project , right , right . So in that , say , you know , there was a time that I was working on a project with my MBA team because I'm a dual degree student , you see how I threw that in there , right .
And then I tell the story about how we created the EMR project that we did that year , right , so that would talk about the team . And then the last thing would be being passionate about surgery , which I kind of already mentioned in the whole dexterity thing .
But you could see how that passion kind of comes throughout , right , it basically is kind of linear throughout the whole thing that I'm talking about . So that's kind of what you want to .
You know , you , you want to say , right , it's a little bit harder for me because this is not my real story , but figure out what your story is I bet you I could do a really good obi-gyn one go ahead no tell me about yourself .
I do want to ask you about a lot of babies because we can't . We can't cover everything in this no , absolutely but I do want to ask you about someone who has had failure . Yes , right , and I'm not talking about like .
I'm not talking about generic failure , but like they failed a class or they may have flunked out , and maybe they read , like how does someone create a story where like , should they address it first ? Should ? They wait for someone to address it ? Talk to us about that .
So the first place that you should be addressing any type of failure that you have because this is gonna show up on your application , whether you like it or not the first place that you should be addressing that failure is in your personal statement . Okay , and people always ask the question should I address it in my personal statement or should I not ?
And the the I always answer like but why wouldn't you ?
Right , Because you can't hide it .
Right , because they don't want to talk about it . But here's the question what if someone wants to talk about it ? And the first time you ever thought about what you were going to say about this thing is during the interview . When somebody asks you tell me about why you took boards twice . When you write it on your personal statement .
That gives you an opportunity to really formulate what it is that you want to say if someone were to ask you that question .
It allows you to hash all of that out .
¶ Handling Interview Questions About Failures
So what about that thought process of like well , you know , me failing the boards isn't really me , it was just a small blip and I don't want to be defined by that . What ? If someone says that Because some people are like well , a lot of people would be like that .
I would be like that , right , correct .
But I think that that's true , right , I think that you know failing boards isn't necessarily you know , an indict , but but the way that listen , if someone who is interviewing you thinks that failing boards is a part of you know , is like a character flaw there's no way in a 15 minute interview that you are going to convince them otherwise .
The only thing that you can do is make yourself comfortable with giving the answer that you're going to give . Which is why I say hash it out in your personal statement answer that you're going to give .
Which is why I say hash it out in your personal statement , because when you're hashing it out in your personal statement , I will tell you that is the part of the personal statement that if you include that in your personal statement , you're going to write and rewrite that and rewrite that and rewrite that part a million times before you come up to the final
version . The reason that you're rewriting it so many times is because you need to hash out in your mind not just what you're going to say , but you need to hash out in your mind that this is not a character flaw and you need to get all of the emotion out of it so that you can just tell the story , tell what happened . I failed it .
Then I went back , I did this , this differently , I did that differently and I came back and I rocked it so how do you , how would you bring that up in your let's say , you brought it up very small in your personal statement , right , or whatever it's brought up ?
It could be big , it could be small . I wouldn't bring it up big in your personal statement , but I would give it a little .
I give a little attention you threw your Maya Angelou , I rise and I rise . Phenomenal woman , right ? You did all that , right ? So now it's time for the interview , right ? Yes , so who's bringing it up ? You bringing it up in your story , for example , if I say , tell me about who you are right , is that coming up then ?
Or are you not bringing it up and then kind of saying , well , I , so I think it depends , right , I think it's .
And this is where the story is very important and the themes that you pick are very important , right , if you're . If one of your themes is resilience , right , the question becomes well , how do you show you know more than once ? Right , which is like okay , this is just not . You know something that you can absolutely ignore .
Right , if you fail boards three times ? it's right , you just fabric you , yeah , you just can't ignore it , like you might have to mention it . But again , that's where you think about it over and , over and over and you hash it out in your personal statement very small paragraph .
You don't want a whole half a page dedicated to how you fail board three times okay , but for the interview though but but for the interview that's what I'm saying it depends .
It depends , if you fail boards once and then you came back and you rocked it , it's like , okay , if somebody asked me about it , they asked me about it , they don't , then they don't what do they ask you about it ?
what are you gonna say ?
what ? But that's what I'm saying .
You hash it out so how would you say it ?
I don't know I'm , I'm not . This is not my story make it your story . You just made a surgery story okay , so so they looking for you for role play . Oh my god , I don't want to talk about it because my girl , how many times did you fail for ? Real , and then I never failed boards okay true ?
No , actually .
I did feel one board exam , not in medical school . I actually failed my written boards for OB , remember , and I went back the next year and you rocked it , and I don't know if I rocked it , but it was a pass field so I passed . All right .
So okay , but I play us through this like as if you failed something in residency or sorry , rope you .
You failed something in medical school yes , your boards okay , right , somebody asked you .
Yes , okay , fine , fine fine all right , dr , dr renee , our student , dr renee , that's a great to learn about you , but at uh , but at ducks outside the box surgery residency . You know , none of our previous candidates had any type of failure . They , they don't even know what that means . Why should we choose you ?
That is a very surgery question to answer . Nobody's asking that type of question . Yeah you surgeons are okay , you surgeons are like that .
Keep your hands to yourself . Answer the question please . And they're not supposed to know what happens below the camera . None of y'all business . Move on , keep your hands to yourself .
So something let's say , for example , if I fail boards , sometimes people fail boards , you know , because there are distractions , you know , with family issues . You know because there are distractions , you know , with family issues . Sometimes people fail boards just because you know it was hard and you know , or they didn't know , how to study .
So , whatever your answer is , you know . For example , if you say , well , you know , maybe you didn't , you didn't realize how much time you needed to dedicate , you know , to studying , or you didn't have , you know , a strategy that worked well for you right , you might say that .
You might say that you know you were distracted , you know , because you had to take care of things at home . You know , maybe there was a sick family member and unfortunately your time got divided up and so you weren't able to really dedicate that much time .
But once you figured out that , you know , you figured out how to kind of get that , whatever that issue was off your plate , that you were then able to dedicate that time and be able to do well on boards . Right , important to follow up with . What did you do in order to solve that problem ? You can't just leave it all .
My grandmother was sick , so what happened was I had to , you know , take care of her , and you know , and then that's why I failed . You don't want to say that , right , you want to say something to the effect that you handle the issue . That was was the problem .
And then you came back and how you handled you know the , the , the process with going about passing . You know the board .
It's almost like you have to be able to show a sense of maturity , right , because in any situation , maturity is you hand . You see either defeat or you see adversity , and then you handle it in whatever way , but you're able to look back and say , okay , this is what I've learned from this situation .
Right .
These are the mistakes that hopefully , if I see it again , I can steer clear of . And this is how I've become a better person from it .
What you don't want to do is make up . It's not running away from it , right ? You don't want to make excuses , you want to be able to say right , show your growth , right , be able to say right show your growth , right show your process .
So it's like embracing the issue . Yeah , as opposed to running away from it .
Right , absolutely . I mean , if you see that you did something wrong , then you could you know , or that you did something that was ineffective . You can essentially say you know what ? I tried this method and it actually didn't work for me .
You know it wasn't effective and so I came back really analyzed what worked for me and then I went on and did this process .
You know what ? The last question I have for you . And they basically wanted to know how to leave a positive , lasting impression , so I'll leave that for you towards the end real quick because we're getting a little bit too long is the concept of rehearsal .
Right Like mock interviews , right .
So mock interviews , storytelling how do you come off as not off , as not being too rehearsed ? Because you could be nervous , right , and telling a story to your friend is different than telling a story to someone that you never met before you feeling like the eyes are on you . You don't want to sound like a A robot , a humina , huminaina , humina .
Nobody knows what humina humina is . Then this um which are millennials , gen z , do y'all know ? But ?
basically , you're so nervous you know , you're just like you know you're searching for words and so forth .
Talk to us about that process so you can't tell your interviewer that you are nervous , right ? I mean , they expect you to be nervous , so you can . You can say that you are nervous , right , I mean , they expect you to be nervous , so you can . You can say that you are nervous . There's nothing wrong with with saying that .
The other thing is again , stop and think . Let your interviewer know
¶ Strengths and Weaknesses
that . You know I want to collect my thoughts about this , right , like the strengths and weaknesses that question .
Oh , yeah , before we end , like make sure you get into that address strength , the strengths and weaknesses question , right , you , sometimes people think they know exactly what they're gonna say and then you're just kind of like you get there and you're like I don't know what the heck to say . Right , so you might want to collect your thoughts .
You can write something down , you know really quickly , just so that , and you can say let me , I collect my thoughts so I can just write down and make sure that what I say is clear and concise .
Right , and you can write down a quick , you know bullets , don't do it more than you know 30 seconds , so that the interviewer you can take that long so that the interviewer isn't really , you know , sitting there awkwardly , um , but one of the things you don't want to do is I care too much , like , really , you know , you take something that is obviously a
strength and try to turn it into a weakness . I care too much , you know , I give too much . It's like all right , say that you overextend yourself , right , like that's , you know , giving too much or caring too much , I overextend myself , I , I , I'm not good with time management , you know I'm .
You know I don't know how to prioritize the things that I'm supposed to do , right , like that . That is actually caring and giving too much , like that's the real weakness . But you saying that you care and you give too much , there ain't no weakness , like come on so what are some good weaknesses , like beyond , like what are the weaknesses ?
It depends on what your actual weaknesses are , right .
Like if you have real weaknesses that you are working on , you just say like yo , I'm not assertive enough , I let people walk all over me .
Yeah , you could say that I mean , that might be something , right ? That , hey , you know I let people walk all over me . You know I'm not a servant . Are you saying it like that , though ? Or listen , one thing that I've learned is you got to get , you have to have some level of comfort in your interviews , right ? You might say , you know , honestly .
Or you might say I've been told that and I see that in myself , right , that I'm not assertive enough , that , and I see that in myself , right , that I'm not assertive enough and I do , you know , kind of , let people just kind of , you know , get away with things that they probably should not get away with , right ?
and that's something that surgery program . They can build me up . Yeah right , hold me up they're gonna hold me surgery program . Will your whole fresh meat .
So Right , like that's important Surgery programs want to know kind of Well again , why , why you , why do you think that you're going to be a good candidate for this program ? Right , like that's what they want to know . And so that's what you , that's what you have to put out there Constantly , constantly advocating for yourself .
So mock interviews how often do you think you should be doing them ?
So for mock interviews , you ask the question of you know doing a mock interview with somebody that you know versus somebody that you don't . Try to do mock interviews with somebody that you don't know , right ? So I get students who you know might ask me can you do a mock interview with me ? I don't really do residency mock interviews .
I will do more medical student mock interviews . That's what I'm more comfortable with , but with , for example , I had a student the other day that I , you know , offered to do , offered her to do a mock interview with one of my mentors , right , Because she doesn't know my mentor .
I've had medical students in the past do interviews with Dr Ayers , one of my mentors , and Dr Brugge , the other mentor , so , people that they don't know . I think that that's important .
That's how you might get comfortable with talking and telling your story to somebody that you don't know and there's no risk in that , right , Because that person is just looking out for you and making sure that you answer the questions appropriately . There's no right answers . There's some wrong answers , but there's no right answers .
There's some wrong answers , but there's no right answers .
Um so how do you have them leaving with a positive um impression of you ?
what's so the ?
long-lasting thing like man . Wow , dr . I think student dr voni , she ain't gonna make it here , but she'll make it somewhere else . She'll make it somewhere else , like how do you it somewhere ?
else , like how do you do that ? So the way that you do that is you stick to your theme and you tell your stories and you know you advocate for yourself . I mean that , literally , is the entire formula , right . It's the incremental things that you do in the interview , right ?
Every single question , you know hitting it so that it hits some part of that theme , so that that way when someone leaves , you know , when you leave the room , or you leave the zoom room or whatever , you know there's a story that sticks in that person's head . That is kind of the , that's the story that in their minds defines you .
You know , like man , this student is really compassionate . She told this story about x , y and z . She never said the word compassion , she didn't say , oh , I'm so compassionate .
It's like you're not using bud word , no buzzwords buzzwords .
Get them out . Right , that's the laundry list . Get the buzzwords out . Let tell me a story and I will tell you if you are compassionate . I will determine whether or not you're compassionate or whether or not you're a jerk .
Right , because I could come to that conclusion too I've had people tell me a story where I'm like oh , you're a real jerk that was my first time I told you the story .
Like you ain't gotta no , I'm not talking about you . I'm talking about the story that I told when Dr Love was on you sure it wasn't about me . No , it wasn't about you . It was about I'll tell this story real quick and then we'll see if we can't wrap this up .
But the story that I told in a previous episode was about someone who was having problems getting a residency , um , a residency program for almost seven years .
Almost seven years , and he would get interviews every single year but he , for whatever reason , could not get land you know , land , a spot , and so he had been working , obviously , over those seven years , you know , doing x , y and z , and you know medical students we , you know doing X , y and Z , and you know medical students , we don't work right as medical
students . But he was outside of that norm and so I guess he went to an interview where he had a friend who was in that residency program and the friend was , I think , going to get cronuts Remember when cronuts was really big , remember and he was like , hey , you know you want a cronut .
And he's like , yeah , he pulls out a wad of cash and says get some for everybody . And he told me that story and I said that's why you didn't get into that program , and he's like what do you mean ?
That's pretty pretentious .
That's very pretentious . And I said that right there is a red flag . And I said I will tell you right now , if you came to my residency program and you did that we would all rally against you not to come to this program . And he was like , oh , you're reaching . And I said , listen , you can say I'm reaching , but I graduated from residency already .
You trying to get in and I'm telling you , what you did was not cool . I understand you think you're trying to be nice . I didn't do anything that bad ? no , you didn't do anything that bad right , but you know things like that and people watch , even when you're not in the interview .
So if you are doing in-person interviews , don't flip the bird off at somebody who cut you off in traffic because you don't know if that person is the person that you're going to meet with when you go to interview and get off that exit .
You know so Well . Vo Vincent , thank you very much for submitting that question . You got an entire episode . I know that was supposed to be this this was not supposed to be that long of an episode and this is Renee's bag , so be happy about that . So you see I didn't speak much .
I let her do what she had to do but listen , guys , we really enjoy when you guys ask us questions , because you know that's the way in which we connect with you all , whether you are in attending or you are in training , or you're in the pre-med version or pre-health version of whatever .
You're going towards us some questions , um , so we can answer some questions for you . We don't just talk locums , we talk a whole bunch of different things , but locums is our bag also so yeah , between getting into medical school and residency and interview and locums . That will . That's what we do , but you know .
Yeah , I mean you know absolutely , you are you got talking to mike , yeah , I am .
You are either having or going to have had the interview with Christy Olson , but you know you're going to be talking in that episode about just kind of interviews after , right after when you're finishing residency , and that's a very different type of interview process , right , that's a very different type of interview process process , right , that's a very different type
of interview process and it just , you know , you mentioned locums and that just kind of reminded me , you know , about the fact that we have this locums course upcoming and so if you're interested in doing locums , you know , certainly go to the link below and , you know , sign up for , you know , our little freebie that will allow you to get notifications when we
are coming up with our locums course so that we can let you know . You know , hey , if you ready to do locums , like you know me and Dr Me , and you ready to , you know , take freedom into your hands , we're going to have something for you .
¶ Marriage Benefits of Locum Tenens
So locums helped our marriage .
It did . Yeah , okay , that's another episode , because I would like to learn more about that .
Locums is the key to everything . All right , y'all , we're going to catch you guys on the next episode of Docs Outside the Box . Yo VO . Thank you for submitting that question . We'll catch you guys on the next one , y'all .
Peace .
Peace , peace .