Gun Violence Realities From A Trauma Surgeon's Perspective. #431

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You've run for office , you've published a book , which is amazing , that we're going to talk about , and you can see everybody who's watching right now . You can see on his corner right there . The bodies keep coming and it's a really good book , and you've been making your rounds on TV . So thank you for joining us here , man .

Let's , let's catch up , man , how you been I've been good .

He was amazing fellow and I was in my fourth year or fifth year and we kind of just I don't know just kind of vibed and I think one of the biggest things that I have to thank Dr Brian Williams for is he helped me bring my expectations up . I knew I wanted to go into trauma-critical care . I don't know if you remember the story , dr Brian .

I wanted to go into . What did you say ? Oh yeah , I know we talked about this .

And I literally handed him the fellowship programs that I was looking at and let's just say , for someone coming from Morehouse and someone coming from Grady , the programs that I gave him , he was I think the easiest way to say bro was disgusted with me . I gave him a list of these are the programs .

He literally took the paper and , like , pap , pap , what's wrong with you ?

These are all at , like you know what we would consider if you are at big academic institutions , these are programs that let's just say they're not level one academic facilities , which they're great , but let's just say that wasn't in my line of sight or that should not have been in my line of sight at that moment .

But Dr Bryan took the time out to be patient with me and to help me understand expectations .

And then the other thing that he also did is I gave him my essay and I read I don't know if you remember this part I redid my essay and I sent it to you because my first essay was really like it just wasn't focused and it was almost like a medical school essay which is not needed for fellowship .

So you really played a major part in me going to University of Miami and then afterwards my trajectory afterwards , giving me advice on certain things , with the choices that I make with my job , and then ultimately we linked up and , you know , became like co-colleagues on , you know , when I created Docs Outside the Box and you were my first big interview where I

traveled out to go and see you in Dallas after the events that occurred . That's written out in his book . So y'all me and Dr Brian go way back , man .

But it's about us overcoming our imposter syndrome , lowering our expectations of ourselves when we should be trying to exceed them , and also just say you know , you never know whose life you may impact , because the stories you told me I had forgotten those until you reminded me of those .

It shows you every single day you could be doing something that can change the trajectory of someone's life . So just be kind .

You know to look at someone's list and say , hey , I think you can do better than this and really push that person , not just I think you can do better than this and walk away but like , no , listen , these are the programs that I think you should be applying to , and here's why , you know , um , so I really appreciate that a lot , man .

Um , it's really changed the trajectory of my life and how um . You know , just any program I go to or any um job that I go to , I do locums y'all . So any place I go to and they look at my resume , they know I'm coming correct and I gotta say that's , that's because of you .

So you know , let's jump right into this book , man , because let's start from the book the Bodies Keep Coming that came out last year . You can find it anywhere on Amazon . But this is your deep , personal and critical look at the intersection of racism , violence and health care through the lens of a black trauma surgeon .

My man , there's so much to cover in here . I've like kept notes about all this stuff . I got like 10 points that I'm going to get through . But we can't get through all of this . But let's start on what we do as trauma surgeons . You know particularly where you were taking care of police officers . Some of them survived , some of them didn't make it .

But that's the crux of what kind of pushed you into national limelight , someone like me working in Atlanta . We see a lot of gun violence and a lot of times we see it almost like a revolving door .

The question I have is based off your perspective , based off of the book , based on the fact that you ran for for , or you ran for politics and you were running for office Like , do you think we as a society and I'm talking specifically here in the United States have we just given up the fight on like making sure that , like what happened two weeks ago or

four weeks ago in Georgia mass shootings have we just gotten less sensitive to that ? And , just like yo , this is just the way , how it is .

I mean you need to feel what's truly happening on the front lines of gun violence and then just also just shift the perspective see what it's like to be a Black trauma surgeon and you're taking care of so many young Black men that are being victimized by gun violence and dealing with the surviving families , because I think that's a perspective that is frequently

overlooked or minimized in the national debate and if we're going to do something about gun violence as a whole in this country , we cannot forget many of the voices that are also impacted by this .

So I was kind of putting this through the lens of race from beginning to end and not be lecturing you about it , but pulling you in so you can feel what it's like to be on the front lines of this epidemic , what it means to be a community person of color in the profession and those that are suffering from the violence .

Right , nobody's making Uzis in Chicago , right , or whatever they're making . Or you know , whatever the situation is with how guns get into the United States and so forth . Like when you decided to run for office I know that that was a central point of you , know part of your policy Like , talk us through , like , what do you think is your answer ?

What would be your answer to being able to fight this issue ? Because when I heard that you were running for office , I'm like man , like that's got to be very frustrating to run for office , because in medicine it's I see problem , I take care of problem , problem's taken care of and let's move on . Like there's no really compromise .

That occurs in medicine , right , whereas in politics that's all like you got to do all that . So talk us through that , how you get through that with gun violence and then with policy . Talk to us about that .

A lot of it is about how do you deal with people and get your message across .

So we have multiple different kinds of problems with different root causes which require different solutions . There is no one size fits all . So when I ran for Congress , I was trying to bring the perspective that is absent . There's never been a trauma surgeon in Congress , there's never been a black doctor who can vote in Congress .

So I brought my perspective as a trauma surgeon treating these patients .

So bringing the professional and the personal aspect to this , to say , look , we can do something about saving lives , and I approach it without trying to vilify individuals for their choices , but talk about the societal structures that we can address through policy .

You and I know that if we were able to achieve all of that , this utopic society where that was all achieved , the gun laws that we deal with on a day-to-day in the neighborhoods , would probably still continue unabated , right ?

Because these are issues of structures that continue to put certain populations at risk of endemic violence , that continue to put certain populations at risk of endemic violence . You know , good schools , affordable housing , well-paying jobs , all of these what people call the social determinants of health , which I prefer to call social drivers of health .

They drive poor health outcomes . We need to invest in that as well . You know , like policing is part of it , right , but where I live , I may see a cop drive to my neighborhood once every couple of months , right , but there's not a whole lot of violence here .

So the answer is not always more police will be the solution , because if that was the case , I would see him around here all the time . So what is it about where I live that leads to less violence . You know , decent paying job , good schools , good homes let's provide that for everyone . That will lead to reduced violence .

And we have the research right the Department of Justice , a lot of academic studies . There are plenty of studies that show that those things will contribute and decrease the amount of gun violence that we have in this country .

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So , someone who's listening right now , they want to know how do I , how does , how do I , how do I get to where Dr Brian Williams is ? Because you've gone from resident fellow attending , and then you did the Robert Wood Johnson fellowship . Can you talk a little bit about that ? Like what was that , um , and then how did that get you into politics ?

But it's designed for mid-career professionals that want to be involved in crafting and informing health policy at the state , national , state and national level and local level as well . So you know , you know I've

talked with you . I was kind of moving towards this , like , how do I bridge the gap between my expertise as a clinician to deal with what's happening outside the hospital ? Because once you leave the hospital doors , that was where our job ended . But what was bringing the patients to the hospital had nothing to do with what we were doing .

Those were all policy related . So I wanted to get involved in that and this fellowship allowed me to do that . I had a chance to go to DC . It was full time , we were immersed in a three and a half month intensive onboarding program and then we get placed as an advisor in an office of a legislator .

So I began in the office of Senator Chris Murphy , which allowed me to be part of that's Connecticut , right , he's Connecticut . He's a leading voice in the Congress for gun violence prevention . He got involved with us after Sandy Hook because that was his district .

He was in the house and we passed the Bipartisan Saver Communities Act so the most significant gun safety bill in the generation had a chance to work on that as a trauma surgeon , then later went to Speaker Pelosi's office and worked on a variety of healthcare legislation .

So I guess the big point here is we in healthcare , our voices can carry so much weight , have so much more impact beyond what we may think , and that opened up a world of possibilities that I didn't even know existed before because I was on this . You know the expected track of attending director chair . You know theme .

I'm going the other way Because it just seems at this point , people are sent to office to just be obstructionists at this point . That's to me what I look like , and I know I'm a bit more pessimistic . You're going to give me an opposite side . But talk to me about that . Like , what's up with that ? Like , how do you feel confident about this ?

So , fortunately , when my book was going to production , I was finishing up my fellowship , so I was able to make a little shift change there and add this at the end is that I was actually inspired during my time there because there are truly a lot of good people going to work every day to make the world a better place , without any fanfare .

I worked at the staff level . That's clear . I worked with the staffers . If you didn't tell me ahead of time , dr Darko , when I went to a room who was Republican or Democrat , I wouldn't know . Oh , really . Here's the issue . Let's work on this . Now , what you see on TV with the members , that's a different animal .

But in the end , these are our family values we live to serve . We feel like we have these opportunities to make the world a better place , that we were going to take advantage of that and from that point on , it's a matter of you're basically a startup . You're a small business that ramps up really fast .

You know file with the FTC , get a staff , raise money , you know all that stuff that a small business would do . That's what we did . So basically I was

a startup . And then you start campaigning and , fortunately for me , I had a lot of experienced campaigners that wanted to join this campaign , which allowed me to just be a candidate , right , and I can just say here I am Dr Brian Williams veteran .

I've served my country Trauma surgeon , I've served in the hospital , I've served on the Hill and I just want to serve the people of this district and try to make your lives better .

And then , when you show me the program that you're applying for , I was like , yes , that's exactly what you need , that's exactly what you should do and stuff . So where you're at right now , I'm not surprised .

30,000 foot view , or even , let's say , like someone was to have like a window into what you're doing right now , like what is Dr Brian Williams doing right now ? Are you still clinically active ? Are you politically active ? What are you up to ? So the answer to that is all .

I took a break for the summer and getting back into clinical work here within the next few weeks , but still want to remain actively involved in policy and it's definitely policy Politics , not so sure about that , but definitely policy because we just need more people with frontline experience in health care crafting policy .

I think we need more people that with critical thinking , that are willing to serve right and , uh , definitely more so . Diversity of experience , diversity in backgrounds , that's what this country is about . For the time being , I want to be very intentional about my next step Doing what I do well , taking care of patients , doing some teaching .

And the easiest way to make that not a reality is to just dive head first into what I've been doing for the past however many years , and not think twice about it , because once you get on the hamster wheel , it's hard to get off . So I've been taking it step by step . Still out there promoting the book .

I'm still getting asked to speak about the book , so I'm very happy that it's resonating with folks . I'll take care of some patients doing some writing and then we'll see Dr Darko , we'll see . I just don't want to rush it .

And you know , the interesting thing is this 10 years we were able to work with some people who are attendings now , but like 10 years ago when we were working with them they were residents , Right .

And when we were like 10 years ago we were doing locums , um , and we were half locums , half independent , or half , um , working like employed docs , and we were kind of just letting them know about , like our trajectory , why we decided to work like this and stuff and it's non-traditional , and so forth . And they're like , oh , okay , I get it , and so forth .

And then 10 years later , you , they're letting us know like , hey , like I've been working for 10 years or I've been working for a certain amount of years and I just need to change .

Right , Like I just remember that you and Renee were doing X , y and Z and I need to change , I need to do this , this , this , this and this , and it's not really a I told you so moment , but more of like okay , that is gratifying to know that you know , like you're not the only one who feels like , like I , which is what you said , which is you know

TPMD to you know , eventually you know program chair and then chairperson , like that's just not where you're at at this point . You know , and I want folks to listen and understand that like the path can be , like like you can do whatever you want to do and , like you said , that fellowship . I didn't know about that fellowship until you told me about that .

You know and you maybe should consider it . We should , we should , I might have to . They pay right .

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I said if I had to go back the day after it was over and never practice medicine again , I'd be like you know what I feel good about what I've done it was was that transformative and you know you like , I see you figure like when you're doing something that's outside the box of what's expected , especially for us as surgeons , right , something outside that it

makes people uncomfortable , oh yeah , why are you doing that ? And you feel like you have to explain to them , explain yourself to them . But now , 10 years later , like you said , they're seeing it right , they're seeing , they're coming to you yo , you know how many attendings told me I was crazy for doing locums at first , you know .

I'm not saying that locums is the panacea to anything , but basically what I'm just trying to say is like sometimes you could be really passionate about something and everybody can say that you're crazy , it doesn't make sense and so forth .

But if you really feel like this is the path that you need to do , then , whether you're right or wrong , you just got to go and do it . Right , right , right , and you'll be surprised like you get on the other side of it 10 years later . People are trying to jump ship and trying to be on your side . So you never know right .

So like I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you said , man .

That's especially from the program that you went , especially from the program that you was at you was at a big time program , you know .

Like some people say well , I went to harvard and I'm Harvard trained , which means that , like that , you know , it comes along with these certain types of expectation . It's like , well , no . Like , what if you got kicked out of Harvard , right , and you finished at another program , right ?

Like you bring your certain skill set and you really have to be relying on yourself to really be the name brand , not where you trained at , not where you work at , not what med school you go to .

And that's the one thing that I give advice to a lot of folks , particularly pre-meds , who are trying to get into medical school , and they're trying to get into the most prestigious school possible and it may not be in their path .

I'm like , oh , like , first of all , the name doesn't make who you are , um , and then the same thing with residency , right , it's like guys like you want to get into the best program . That's right for you , right , right .

And then also , at the same time , like when you get out , like it's very rare that people are going to be looking at what school you trained at . They just want to know MD DO , are you board certified , are you going to take care of me ? And that's pretty much it you know . So , right , let's keep it at that , man .

So anything else you want to let us know about before we get on out of here , no , I really invite your listeners to reach out to me and connect .

I will send you a signed copy of the book and you will get a 25 discount off of the um price , which is that's better than amazon , that's better than amazon , because I'm looking at amazon right now as you're talking .

Your own podcast , please , no pressure no pressure ,

I'm juggling .

Let's just say I miss you there in the podcasting space , so I hope eventually you end up coming back , man .