¶ Medicine and Career Burnout Trends
What's good everyone . This is Dr Nidarko . Make sure you hit the subscribe button below so that you're always up to date on the new uploads as well as alerts on this show . The other thing that you can do to help build this community is make sure you leave a comment below .
Let us know what you like , what you don't like about the show and , ultimately , let us know who's winning these arguments , because I need to know that I'm beating Rene in these debates . Run the tape . So there's a congressman , Congressman , Greg Murphy .
He put out a tweet and he says the number one reason for MD shortage is med schools admitting students who aren't going to practice . Only 60% of med students today plan on practicing clinical medicine . Med schools need to focus on admitting students who want to take care of patients , not just get their MD .
It should be mandated that , unless disabled , each medical school graduate should have to practice medicine full time for 15 years minimum to refund the federal government for the cost of tuition . So if you look at the current , if you look at the most surveys , realistically , the two major issues that cause people to leave medicine is burnout right .
So you're either not happy with your job , you're tired , you're not getting a chance to see your family , you have a mental breakdown or the other reason . Other category is usually money .
Right , Like , for whatever reason , money is an issue and you're like I can either make money better doing something else or I can spend more time with my money doing something that's less stressful . But those are usually the two main issues , which is the person is burnt out or money is a major issue , and usually it's student loan related and so forth .
So at least student loan is a contributor .
Those are usually the systemic issue . Well , part of the systemic issues .
What will cause someone to say you know what , either while in medical school they're like yo , I'm out because I see my attendings or I see residents or I just see greener pastures doing something else , or you're in residency or you're a young attending and you're like , yeah , this has an expiration date , before 15 years .
Is that you kind of just see the writing on the wall that like for the next 30 years ? I just definitely don't want to be doing this . That's where the focus should be on is like yo , why is medicine ? Why is the whole practice of healthcare ? Why is it very stressful at the people who make the most decisions all the time ?
So I always look at it as a trauma surgeon . I'm leading a team and I have a team of other docs . I have a team of nurses , there's a team of allied health professionals , but I'm the one who has to make all the decisions and I'm the one who's responsible for documenting . I'm the one who's responsible for billing .
I'm the one who's responsible for a lot of times , a lot of the menial things that occur in a patient's care , but I have to make the most critical decisions . That's fucking stressful . Of course it's stressful of someone being able to leave a hospital and go to rehab and then administration is coming down on me because you're not doing a peer-to-peer .
But then the next minute I got to crack someone's chest .
Right .
And then talk to families . It's just like such a . It's just a lot of different things that you got to do , yeah .
So Dr Cooper says disinformation , distraction , for sure , exactly . And Foothill , we waved , at Foothill we waved . And is it Chowmurita 9-10 , we waved .
But yeah , so do you see yourself practicing past 15 years ?
I don't know .
I mean right now , you're a year 12 , though .
Yeah , I mean I don't know , but what I do know is that if I'm paying you , know how about this ?
Actually , you work with . You work with students who worked with some who are residents . Have you heard any residents , or do you know of a bunch of residents who are saying you know no 15 years .
¶ Physician Work-Life Balance and Loans
Actually , I would argue that at least most people that I encounter tend to look at medicine the traditional way , in that they will get out of residency and they will practice in very traditional ways .
There's no expiration date . They're just like . I'm just going to practice . They're just going to practice .
They're just going to practice . Most students , most residents that I encounter are not necessarily talking about . You know well , I'm going to leave medicine after such and such a time , that I have an expiration date or whatever , so I'm not quite sure who he's encountering , especially he's a congressman .
So I'm like , how many pre-meds and residents are you actually encountering to say that you are even ? You know , Did this statistic even exist ? I would just like to know where he got this statistic .
Do you think this would have caused as much outrage ? If it's just that first tweet ? I don't know .
Of course I think so . I mean 60 percent . That's a . Listen . 60 percent is right . That's a . That's a people who are going to practice . People are going to practice . Who are going to practice ? That's a . That's a people who are going to practice . People are going to practice , right , who are going to practice ?
60% is a small percentage when you think about how many people are getting into medical school and you know to say that 40% of them are not going to practice . It's just kind of like are you serious ? Where's that ?
number coming from . I just want to know .
I wish he shared his sources on that one Cause then I we'd be able to say Well , typically , typically right . As physicians , as doctors , we know , is that a survey ? No , we know . I will tell you , any doctor worth their weight in salt , gold and stethoscopes knows that whenever they pull a statistic out of their head Where'd you get that from ?
I made that up . Okay , when they pull a statistic out of their head , what do we do ? We cite it . We cite where we got the statistic , otherwise it doesn't count . So , congressman Murphy , it doesn't count until you tell us where you got that statistic from it . Just , it doesn't count .
What you said doesn't make any sense until you can tell us Give us a study , give us some sort of some . Go to PubMed , go to Medscape , go anywhere , go to I don't know , go to Ebony magazine . Figure it out . Where did you get that statistic ? Is Ebony still in circulation ?
Yes , it is , but tell us where you got that statistic Is Ebony still write it down ?
Is Ebony still in publication ?
So Dr Cooper says I agree , we give up our youth to study and become doctors . While many residents want better work-life balance , folks aren't talking about not practicing medicine , and that's the whole point . That's exactly on point . And that's the whole point . That's exactly on point .
As much as we talk about well , we want work-life balance , we want work-life balance . There is the literal work-life balance . People still want to work , but they want that balance with their lives .
I'm not saying we're not working . I think , for my perspective , is because I think what we see the majority of people who go to medical school don't need student loans , right ? No , is that what they say ?
I don't know , because the majority of students who go to , majority of people who go to medical school are come from an affluent background , right , and I don't know if that means that they take student loans .
I don't know , we did that . Um , we did that . Uh , what's the name ? Well , we , well , we did the NRMP .
Right .
But yeah , there was some study . I can't remember that talked about the number of students needing , I think , student loans versus those who didn't , and it was broken down by race . Are there any doctors who are ?
like on the left at all . What do you mean In Congress ? Yeah , in Congress , I don't know , I'd be interesting to know , it just seems like most doctors who are in office are right dr guber said you know he ain't got no studies .
I know he ain't got no studies , yeah , because he would just cite that .
Right , he would cite it he would absolutely say this is crazy . But y'all , I'll just say this don't believe the hype . Um , I'm very suspicious of this and I'm very suspicious about the . The rationale behind putting in the second part because I'm like yo is are they trying to say , basically , if you don't practice past 15 years is a law ?
coming ? Is there some type of resolution , but how ? I don't know , I don't know . Are they going to call the loan ? No , no , what I'm saying is Is that what he's saying ? That they're going to call the loan ?
Either call the loan or they can do something with residency If you go through residency .
But you're working . They would literally have to change the labor laws . Yeah , because at that point , if you change the labor laws in residency , you open up a can of worms , but then this is what I'm saying .
They're pulling this out the ass just to confuse people .
I mean , of course , but it's always to confuse people .
But yeah , I feel like there is some sense that there's a . This doesn't make sense to me .
It doesn't make sense to me , the only other thing that I can think of is that they would call the loan right To basically say , okay , now we're going to call the loan . But here's my question .
That means that you don't change any labor laws for residency . I'm about to start . He says yo don't change any labor laws for residency . I'm about to start Gen Surge residency and you won't regret it . Gen Surge is the best decision that you could ever make .
I'm telling you right now OK , here's a poster child for Gen Surge residency .
Yeah , so it's OK . It's me , didn't mean to interrupt you , you're all good . It's all good man .
So that means that . So calling the loan would , if those I'm saying calling the loan , assuming everybody knows what that means .
But calling the loan basically means that at some point in time somebody says yo , we want our money now , all the money now , not in 30 years or 20 years .
We wouldn't want all the money now . But here's the question . So are you ? Are we saying that essentially the that doctors would have to report how they are working ? You already have the government , you already have to report how they are working through the government .
You already have to do that how , when you do your , for example , in Pennsylvania , when you get your student or when you do your license , you have to do a survey .
You don't remember that ? No .
I understand , and in that survey it does ask you you how many years do you plan on practicing ? How do you practice now ? Are you happy with how you're practicing ? Things like that , so that that precedent is already there .
I get that , but that's if you're licensed , right , and that's if you continue to be licensed . You don't have to be licensed , you don't ? I bet you , governor , what ?
do you mean you don't have to be licensed ?
You don't have to be licensed as a physician . You can decide , you don't . You're just not going to license anywhere . I'm not going to renew my license .
Well , if you don't , is Congressman Murphy licensed right now . If you don't renew your license , then you can look that up .
Is he licensed anywhere ? If you don't renew your license , then ? Um , so then who are you reporting that to ?
I don't know that's what , but that's what I'm asking , right , because if you're not working now , that would mean you would have to report that you are not working as as a physician , you are not practicing clinically , or or something goes out that says prove to us that you are working . Right , basically , you would have to report that you're not .
Something goes out . That's what I'm saying .
And they could . But they could find out easily , right ? They can do this based off of MPI information . They can do this based off of license information . They can check , double check all that stuff
¶ Government Oversight on Doctor Working Conditions
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I understand . But now ? So we're saying that we're going to put government funds yes , they will do it and look to see if the doctor is working .
Yes .
So that , so that's what I want to know . It's like so you're going to take money to go figure out who's working and how they're working .
So I would just say that , based off of how things have been going over the past nine days of immigration , yeah , so they normally have flights that are chartered that are like eight grand and now they're using , like these , military planes that are like two hundred thousand dollars just to do the same thing that they're doing charter , like they ain't playing .
So whatever amount of money they're going to use just to make a big deal , I can't see them sparing an expense to do that . So , girl , what words does she take right out of your mouth ?
Huh , I took the word .
Emily .
There's a lag .
There's a lag .
Dr Emily's always on your side anyway , of course she is , that's my girl . Yeah , of course she is , that's my girl . But no , I mean so that that that essentially means that , essentially , doctors would be policed as if we were military workers .
Right , because a military worker has to report where they are , what they're doing , right , potentially they're going to be on active duty Clocking doctors , so I'll be .
I don't know if you guys have listened to my previous episodes , but I've said it already that doctors are blue collar workers . I think that the notion that we were white collar workers that doesn't exist anymore . White collar workers in healthcare are people in the C-suite right . So your CEOs , your COOs , your CFOs- the people with the BAs in Spanish .
Those type of people are the white collar workers . They got a BA in Spanish Doctors and other people who provide clinical care Blue collar workers and , as a result , you're starting to see more doctors strike . And what do blue collar workers do ? They strike . And that's no play on what we do .
I love what I do as a surgeon , but I think we have to come to grips with . This is what we are . We're blue collar workers and blue collar workers . What they do is they strike , plain and simple , right . I'm not always on their side , usually , just usually . Yeah , we know how far back that goes .
Hey , hey , hey , yeah , that goes , hey , hey , hey .