Time again for Doc Jacques, Your Addiction Lifeguard Podcast. I am Dr. Jacques Debruckert, a psychologist, licensed professional counselor, and addiction specialist. If you are suffering from addiction, misery, trauma, whatever it is, I'm here to help. If you're in search of help to try to get your life back together, join me here at Doc Jacques, Your Addiction Lifeguard, The Addiction Recovery Podcast.
to be real clear about what this podcast is intended for it is intended for entertainment and informational purposes but not considered help if you actually need real help and you're in need of help please seek that out if you're in dire need of help you can go to your nearest emergency room or you can check into a rehab center or call a counselor like me and talk about your problems and work through them but don't rely on a podcast to be that form of help it's not it's just a It's for
entertainment and information only. So let's keep it in that light, alright? Have a good time, learn something, and then get the real help that you need from a professional. Little Sarah is five years old, and she's a cheerful, very cute, very gregarious little girl. She lives with her mom, a single mom who... got divorced from Sarah's dad when Sarah was about a year old. It's more like he abandoned them, but they ended up divorced. And Sarah is in the apartment on a Saturday night.
Her mom is having a party. And so Sarah's by herself in her room trying to sleep. And at some point she has to go to the bathroom. So she gets up and goes to the only bathroom in the apartment. And she walks in because she has to pee.
but in the bathroom is some guy she's never seen before he's old she thinks and he's shooting up he's cooked up some heroin and he's got a needle and he's shooting up some heroin but she's really got to go so she sits on the toilet staring at the guy who's nodding off that she's never seen before in the bathroom and she's scared she really has to go and so now at five years old she's learned about that and that kind of lifestyle that her mom has brought to her her mom is not comforting during
these times because she's in the living room high and drunk herself and little sarah is scared to death and little sarah is now 31 years old and she's relaying this story to her therapist and feeling really angry about it and upset about being scared and alone as a traumatized five-year-old would be with some unknown stranger in the bathroom who's high on heroin as she's trying to go to the bathroom all alone by herself and she's really, really angry now a 31-year-old woman wondering why was mom
doing that what was wrong with her why wasn't I protected from that Sarah's an example of the things that I hear all the time and the one thing that Sarah did not get from her mother is was some kind of acknowledgement or asking for forgiveness. See, Sarah's mother didn't really get clean and sober. She actually slid further into her addiction until finally little Sarah just grew up without her mom as an adult, doesn't talk to her.
And little Sarah doesn't really like her mom at all as older Sarah, 31-year-old woman, for good reason. And so that situation of growing up with that as an environment scarred Sarah and caused a lot of problems, which is why she ended up talking to me, her therapist. This is something that addiction causes in families. These horrible stories, these horrible experiences.
And you know, when you get to the point in your recovery, you have to have somebody to... apologize to for the things that you did. And that's the sad part that if Sarah's mom ever does actually get into recovery, that she will need to do that. Who knows if that'll happen, which is unfortunate. But Sarah also needs to be able to walk the path of forgiveness with her mother. So this begs the question. The question is, about this podcast, hopefully will make you think about, is who do you forgive?
And that's step nine process of reaching out to people that you have to forgive. We understand the procedural part of it pretty easily. You find them, you apologize, except according to the tenets of the 12 steps, except when to do so would cause harm to others. which I think needs to include the person who's apologizing. But you know those people, who they are, and having the courage to confront that is another issue altogether. But why do you need to forgive people?
And how does that work exactly? I've done multiple podcasts on this, and I've had people come on and try to explain that part of it. So I'm not going to really talk about that. But what I am going to talk about is the people that you identify are the ones that you really have hurt. You may not know that you've hurt them. Sometimes you don't.
And the discovery in the process of forgiving people sometimes leads you to other people that you have to forgive that you didn't even realize you had hurt, harmed along the way.
But the question of why... why do you forgive well sarah is a good example of why you have to forgive because you've caused damage and the damage you cause even even if it's not intended but unintended but intended the damage that you cause has real repercussions sarah is 31 years old and she also has struggled with alcohol problems and some drug problems because of the experiences she had as a child That was the gifting that her mother, the addict, passed on to her.
And without seeking that help and that recovery from that trauma, Sarah is destined to repeat that process with her own child. And so on and so on and so on. So the power of forgiveness is the healing process.
And in step nine, you have to have the ability to do something that is very very challenging difficult and upsetting to the person who's doing it you have to have incredible courage to be able to seek those people out and say hey I did something wrong and I want you to know that I now know that and I'm sorry and be able to take whatever it is that you get in return acceptance rejection refusal And then also live with the aftermath of that apology, which can include reconciliation or total
abandonment from the relationship because they don't want to talk to you anymore. So being able to do that is an important thing. So in the context of recovery, it is the biggest step in recovery. I really do firmly believe that. All of the steps, one through eight, are all aimed at step 9. Being able to make amends. Step 4, step 5 is the preparation for an identification as I've talked about in previous podcasts. Step 9 is really, really the hard one.
And it may take you years to get through that process. Finding all those people that you have to forgive. My first encounter with with being the recipient of a Step 9 process was when I was in college. I had a conflict with a guy that I didn't really know. We were playing intramural sports and he decided he didn't like me and was going to harass me constantly and it almost caused a fight on the school grounds at the university. Which would have gotten both of us into trouble.
But we almost came to blows. And I didn't talk to him after that. I don't remember what his name is. I don't even remember what he looks like. But I do remember the incident so clearly. And at the end of that school year, I was in the parking lot at the school. And I was getting out of my car. And... I heard my name being called, and it was the middle of the day, and there was nobody else in the parking lot that I could see except for this guy way off in the distance, and I heard my name again.
And I looked, and it was him. And I thought, okay, well, it's the last week of school, and he's saved up this moment until the end of school so we couldn't get into trouble. So I put my book bag and took my watch off and put my stuff down and locked the car door, and I was ready to go. to throw down with the guy, because I figured that's what was going to happen. And he comes walking over, and he really was walking towards me with purpose. It wasn't like he was strolling over.
And there was nobody else with him, and that was my clue. So here he comes, and I'm getting ready for whatever's coming at me. And he walks up, and he said, Hey, you know, I know what happened in the gym a year ago was bad. And I'm really sorry that I did that. And I really want you to know that I'm truly sorry that that happened. And I hope you don't have any hard feelings about it. And he sticks his hand out to shake my hand.
What I didn't know at the time, because I didn't know enough about recovery and addiction, because I was pretty much in... the addictive cycle at that point in my life myself was that that hand that was coming towards me was not balled up in a fist but was an extension of his hand and I shook his hand and I said yeah it's okay I appreciate it I me too I you know we got carried away I'm sorry that happened too and then he said great and he turned around and walked away and I never saw him again
and like I said I don't even remember what his name was I couldn't pick him out of a lineup of one and He was doing step nine. And I figured that out many, many years later. I had just received a step nine. And it was funny because when he said it to me, all of my anger towards him that I had felt over the year, if I thought about it, it was gone. He had successfully step nined me. My anger was gone. He had taken away the thing that he had given me. And I was glad to give it to him.
And I tell that story now, and I can remember at the time feeling angry at him before, and then him doing that Step 9 process with me, and not feeling the anger afterwards. That's God's work right there. That's what we were taught to do in recovery in Step 9, and that's what we're taught to do in the New Testament. To forgive. The power of that is amazing. If you're an addict and you've got to do step nine, don't be fearful of it.
Even if you do get rejected, because what you're doing is what you're supposed to be doing, which is taking back the gift of anger that you've given the other person, or at least offering the opportunity for that person to be relieved of their anger. But now the next part of that process is you have to learn to forgive yourself. If they have forgiven you and you haven't forgiven yourself, then what good have you done?
Letting it go is the phrase that gets applied all the time to that kind of a thing. And the letting it go is the thing that gets misunderstood. What are you letting go? The memory? The mental pictures? The words? As far as I know, we don't have a time machine that allows us to go back in time and relive and fix our stuff. It happened. So what are you letting go? What you're letting go is the idea that I'm going to be angry. Scripture tells us that forgiveness is required. Why?
Because if we do not forgive, we become like the people that have transgressed against us. And that's not what we're supposed to do. Those are Jesus's ideas of like, you have to forgive, you forgive because we're going to end up being like them and we're supposed to be teaching them. And it makes us miserable, horrible people. And we're showing and modeling something to these people because we all have to live together. And that's really what it's all about is living together, right?
So forgiveness is letting go of the anger, not, the event, not the memory. And that is misunderstood by many people. Forgiveness is about, I'm going to forget it. Forgetting and forgiving are two very different things. They are not the same at all. They're correlative. They can happen at the same time, maybe, but you're not going to actually ever be able to forget what happened to you. And so no matter how bad badly you think of yourself, carrying it on can be very destructive.
Sarah had a life that was pretty miserable through her 30s, early 30s. They continued on for a while. She eventually did stop drinking and she's been sober now for a number of years.
But that idea that somehow you know she was the bad person or she was unwanted or uncared for really it was about being unsafe and so in her recovery from her traumatic childhood it was her need to forgive her mother for putting her in that position where she was unsafe then as she became an addict herself she needed to work through the getting drunk and getting high at her mother and and that's a phrase that we use in the addiction world, getting high at somebody.
She was getting high, and she was getting drunk at her mother. And while her mother seemingly didn't acknowledge what she had done and didn't seem to accept responsibility for it, and she crawled in a bottle herself and did not ever come back out, at least still. So it was very difficult for little Sarah. now adult Sarah, to find a way to forgive her mother. Until we started working on the idea of the anger. And that's really what forgiveness is. She didn't want to forgive her mother.
She didn't really want to do that. She hated her mother for that. And all the things, I mean, that was one example of many that she had in childhood. Her mother was very neglectful and very irresponsible. Had been married, I think, a total of six times. Biker dudes, drug dealers... Really, not a good group of people. And that's who little Sarah was around for a large part of her early childhood.
So she didn't want to forgive her mother until she began to realize, as we worked together, that forgiveness is not about forgetting. It's not about pretending like you're forgetting. And most importantly, the person that you're forgiving doesn't get away with anything.
If you, in your step nine, are approaching somebody and saying, hey, I'm really sorry that I did this, and I want you to know how much I know that's wrong, now, in my recovery, and I've learned from that, what you're doing is you're asking the other person to let their anger go, right? And you're hoping that you can achieve that. But it's really bothersome when they say, I don't accept your apology, and I hope you die, right? Because sometimes you do get that. And that's hurtful, right?
So if you are having that in your heart, yourself, when somebody's apologizing to you, you're hurting them and you're hurting yourself. So when you go do that to somebody and you're apologizing, you don't want to have that as the thing that comes back to you. Because it would be hurtful to them and to you.
So taking those things, those sinful things, those horrible things that you've done, and and admitting it to somebody else is you literally taking those things and letting them go, lying them down for the other person. Like in the scriptures saying, bring your troubles and lay them at my feet. That's what you're doing because we've all done things that are very bad. Every single person, not just addicts, Every single person has done things that they wish they had not done.
And they wish they could take them back. So you're not the only person. And you are not the only person who has stolen and cheated and lied and deceived and physically hurt and emotionally hurt other people. And it doesn't matter to what extent. You can be forgiven for anything if you're willing to accept that love that fills your heart, that allows you to be a different person. There was a gentleman who was living a life sentence. Actually, it wasn't living a life sentence.
He had gotten the death penalty in California, Tukey Williams. And he had killed some police officers, I believe. And he was convicted after being charged with first-degree murder. And when he was convicted, he was sentenced to execution in California. And when Arnold Schwarzenegger was the governor, that's when Tukey Williams was slated to be executed. And he exhausted all possibility for appeal, had gone through the appellate court multiple times, and had never been accepted.
And in the time that Tukey was actually incarcerated, he had started an entire process movement that he was responsible for where he was trying to work with kids to teach them that being in gangs and being gangbangers and criminals was a bad thing and so he had worked very hard in his lifetime while he was incarcerated to make a difference in kids lives and it was a lot of good work he did and he clearly had changed but the problem was he had already been sentenced to death So the 25 years or
so, or however long it was that he was in prison waiting for that death sentence to be executed, he had done all this work. So now it's his time to be executed. And so before the governor comes the order of stay of execution, and it can be changed by the governor, but only the governor. So that came across Arnold Schwarzenegger's desk, and it was his decision as to whether or not this man should be actually executed or not.
And Arnold Schwarzenegger went through the process of contemplating that, and he denied it. And he said, I can't. I can't halt this execution. At the time he committed the crime, I believe Tukey even actually admitted doing it. And he was convicted in a court of law and gone through the appellate court as many times as it needed to before it was ended. And he was executed. And I remember the day that it happened. It was a number of years ago. And people were very upset.
Because this man seemingly had completely changed. So why not just commute it and turn it into life... without chance for parole and let him continue his work. And I guess, depending on your views on state executions, you could argue the point either way. But it appeared that Tukey Williams had changed. And he had changed his life, and he had to change the thought about himself. And he had committed those crimes, but he had also done things to help himself and help other people.
So... I wonder, and I don't know because I never read anything about it, but how the relatives of the people that he had killed thought about him at the time of his death. I don't remember seeing anybody saying that they were standing before Arnold as family members saying, please do not allow him to be executed. I didn't hear that happening. I might have, but I didn't hear it.
But forgiveness is something that, when you have really egregious crimes, is something that you really have to consider. Can I be forgiven? And I have counseled people who are criminals, felons, murderers, abusers, people who have abused themselves, people who have been involved in other people's deaths because they contributed to their death through the use of drugs and overdoses. And it's a very sad thing for them to have to go through life knowing that they have done those things.
Everybody can be forgiven. Everybody. But you have to allow yourself to acknowledge that you actually did the thing that you did and stop walking in shame. And follow that idea that Jesus gave us that we must change what we do because if we don't, we will end up destroying ourselves. And so forgiveness is a key part of it and accepting forgiveness and extending forgiveness.
So when you're doing step nine and you're seeking out those that have done things to you that have harmed you, be fearless, just like the fearless searching moral inventory of your character defects. I wish I could change the 12-step wording in step nine to say, fearlessly seek those out To make amends whenever possible, except when to do so would cause harm to others. Fearlessly. Let's be warriors in our recovery. Not cowards. And not people who hide.
Let's be strong, full of conviction that we have changed. And I'm going to walk the path of recovery. And I will be forgiven. And I will accept my own forgiveness for the things that I have done. Fearlessly. Fearlessly.
And you know, it's interesting, the people that do that, they come into my office and they walk with their head up and they don't walk with shame and they don't walk with their head up in an arrogant way like we do when we're first working through our addiction because it's all about arrogance. Those who walk with confidence and can be fearless, you can be scared, but fearless. And they do that step nine. It transforms them and I see it. I see them transform in that process of forgiveness.
So it can happen if you try. Sarah was able to actually forgive her mother and it was transformative to her because her mother was a key figure in her life for many, many years and was one of the real reasons that She really had gotten into addiction herself, Sarah, because she was trying to cope with a faulty coping mechanism with her own addiction. But Sarah did transform. And I've seen so many people do that when they accept that forgiveness and that idea.
So be fearless in that forgiveness path. Well, that's it for this edition of Doc Shock, Your Addiction Lifeguard. I hope you got something from this podcast and are working on your recovery. If you need help in your recovery, please reach out to me. You can reach me through my website, wellspringmindbody.com, and you can ask me questions and look for help. And if I can help you, I will.
No matter where you're listening, where in the world, there are recovery groups that you can contact and reach out through AA or NA, or if you have some other addiction, SA, OA, whatever it is. Get the help and learn to live sane, stable, and sober. So until next time, see ya.
