Prince Harry and Prince William Pt. 2 | 44

Matt, have you ever wanted to complain about a family member on national TV? Of course. Who hasn't wanted to kind of take their dirty laundry and resolve it in the court of public opinion by airing it on national television? I don't know if I would ever want to do that. I would only do it if I knew I was right. You know, it's like that move is something that you only do if you're walking in with a hundred percent confidence. I feel like you are once again channeling Prince Harry.

It's just eerie how similar you two are. It is. We both have sultry voices. We both are gingers. We're both royalty. Yeah. I'm going to ask you to for a moment imagine that you are Prince William. Be brave. So you're William, you're pacing around Kensington Palace. It's the early hours of the morning, maybe like 1 a.m. And you are up at this ungodly hour because your brother Prince Harry is sitting down with Oprah Winfrey for a tell all interview.

Up in his shoes for that? Yes, for this specific. Moment. This is the lead up to that interview that kind of shook the world a bit. Ugh, I just know that my hemophiliac blood is boiling. It's the Habsburg and So technically this interview will not air in England until the following night, but I have to imagine that when you are at this echelon of society, you have a VPN, you can watch anything you want. Right.

So let's assume that William is watching it as it airs. And I can relate'cause I watched it live. Really? Wow. So the interview starts with just Megan and Oprah, and there is a lot of talk about how poorly Megan was treated, leading to the iconic Oprah line. Were you silent or were you silent? The enunciation, the hand movement. The hand movements, the enunciation. She knew she ate that up. Ugh, absolutely. And then Harry joins the interview for the second half.

He and Megan allege that before their son Archie was born, a member of the royal family came to Harry with concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he was born. Yeah. Which I remember everybody being like, Yeah. Uh, are we surprised by any of this? Ironically enough. That's maybe like the blackest thing they could have done, whoever asked about this. Uh-huh.

Because there is a lot of colorism inside of black culture. And so when a baby is born, you always have some family member who wants to say something ignorant. Yeah. Now, of course, we have no idea what William is actually thinking when he's watching this interview, or if he even did watch it. Mm-hmm. Though, why wouldn't you?

For all we know, some age just came in afterwards and briefed him on everything that was said. But I think it's safe to say that regardless if he's hearing it firsthand or if he's hearing it through telephone, he's probably appalled by what he hears.

And he probably can't believe that his brother would talk about their family this way. Yeah. It was not a great look for the rest of the family. No, and thankfully for them, Harry and Megan don't give any extra details about that conversation regarding Archie's skin color. But the damage is done. Yeah. And then Oprah asks Harry about the rift with his brother. Harry does admit that there's tension and that they are giving each other space.

And with the way that Harry's talking about it, it kinda seems like he thinks he escaped the firm. Yeah. Like made a break for freedom. Right. He says he was trapped. But didn't know it, and now he's just waiting for William and their dad to see the light. Here's a clip. My father and my brother, they are trapped.

They don't get to leave. And I have huge compassion for that. Yeah, it definitely is very like culty. Yeah, and he's been deprogrammed to an extent. I mean he's using the language of cult. Of like, oh, they don't get to leave. But it's more like, you know, they are the heirs. Yeah. Until the monarchy crumbles, they are kind of there. So we kind of hear Harry leading with compassion, and I think it's

Safe to imagine that William doesn't quite feel the same way. Reports come out that he is devastated by the Oprah. Soon after it airs, William and Kate visit a school in London. And the press is waiting for them and obviously they pounce. Here's a clip of that moment and apologies for how faint Williams' responses are. He's wearing a mask and it's England, so there's wind.

Sir, have you spoken to your brother since the interview? I haven't spoken to the brother. Yeah, but I've ordered. And can you just let me know is the royal family a racist family, sir? Very much not to racist. If you didn't quite catch that, William says, We're very much not a racist family. Mm-hmm. I feel like not. Three letter word doing a lot of work. Yeah, that reporter was not cutting corners. He went right for it.

One of the people walking with them in this clip was a black woman with like long braids. Yeah, that seemed intentional. Yeah. But yeah, a very Dilted formal answer. But behind closed doors, I think we can assume that William is furious, or definitely not as stoic as he seems out in public. But as we know, he's not allowed to speak his mind. If he wants to fight, then he's going to have to be way more subtle. But

Subtle does not mean ineffective. William has one thing on his side that Harry very much so does not have, and that's The might of the British press. Okay, so it's gonna be Oprah versus the British tabloids. Can you imagine? Pray for that. From Wondery, I'm Sydney Battle. And I'm Matt Belisai. And this is Dis and Tell.

So last episode, we explored the wild but incredibly relatable concept that this feud could have started from a place of concern. Like I don't think there's a person alive with siblings. Who hasn't had their choice of romantic partner judged or questioned at one point, even if it's just like one comment. Right. But even if that is true that this feud started from a place of concern, that has sort of shifted. Now it's Harry very publicly expressing concern for William and

And his well being. Because I think Harry sees himself as fighting both against his brother and For him, he might believe that if he can change the rules for the monarchy for himself, then maybe his brother will be better off too. As you said, like it's kind of like a cult. Yeah, it's so absurd. It's like, oh, the rules that we made up for ourselves are so oppressive to us. I know. But

Clearly, that's not how William sees it. He wants everything to stay more or less the same. And while Harry is using the media to try to break the toxic legacy of the firm, or at least you know, shatter the image of the monarchy a bit. William is using it to sink into the mentality of I'm fine with this actually. Right. But the true tragedy of this is that they're both using the

The same press that they blame for their mother's death. Because as much as they hate the media attention, it's the only weapon that they really know how to use. It's a haunting, destructive legacy that tore apart their mother. And now it's threatening to do the same to them. This is Prince Harry and Prince.

Okay, Matt. So the Oprah interview happened in March 2021 and it seemed like it was gonna dominate the headlines indefinitely. Like if anything, people were getting Harry and Megan fatigue. Right. But they actually caught a lucky break. Because a month later, Prince Philip, husband to the Queen, and Harry and William's grandfather, dies at 99 years old. Gone too soon. I will miss those photos of him from like peeking up behind the wheel of a car.

Like in the backseat. So that kind of takes attention off of them. And also allows sort of a re-entry point into the royal family for Harry, because as soon as this happens and the funeral is being planned. Everyone starts wondering, is Harry gonna come back to England for the service? Does the family even want him to? Right. So Harry does end up coming back.

But as you might expect, things are tense because, you know, Harry and Meghan said a lot in that Oprah interview that they can't take back. I mean a funeral is one of those places where like you're gonna end up having some awkward interactions and you just gotta deal with it. Yeah. So according to Harry, after the funeral he and William go for a walk with their father.

And it starts out pretty calmly. Charles tries suggesting that Harry just learn to live with the press, as the rest of them have. And Harry fires back, saying that the press is certainly a problem, but the real problem is that the family is complicit in everything the press does. So at this point of the conversation, allegedly William starts getting worked up.

He tells Harry that if things were really as bad as he and Megan said on Oprah, then they should have asked for help from the family. From him. Yeah. I just think it's so funny that these two people are fighting about what you said on Oprah. Oh, to have that problem with anybody, I would die. So William is saying, why didn't you ask me for help? Right. And Harry reads between the lines in this moment.

He thinks that William wants him to bend the knee and grovel for help. Very Game of Thrones. Right, kiss the ring. But from Harry's point of view, he shouldn't have to ask. He and Megan were in serious pain and trouble, and William knew that, and he could have stepped in and done what was right, and he should have, in Harry's mind. Right. So the brothers are going at it, each of them trying to get the other to hear their side,

And Harry just starts listing them off. He brings up the Sandringham Summit. He brings up Getting Their Security Pulled, Title Strip. And William claims that this was all granny. Don't throw the old lady under the bus. Her husband just died. But also, I mean, she is The CEO, you know, so do what you gotta do, man. Yeah. William swears that he wants Harry to be happy.

But that things are out of his control. And then I think it might be better to just play this part of his audiobook, where he explains what happens. Okay. He grabbed me again, twisting me to maintain eye contact. Howard, you must listen to me. I just want you to be happy. I swear, I swear on Mummy's life. It stopped me cold, as it was meant to. Not because he'd used it, but because it didn't work. I simply didn't believe it. Didn't fully trust him.

This is very melodramatic. Every time I hear him read from his book, it sounds so melodramatic, but I get it. He's saying William invoked this very special thing between them. wearing on their mom's life and like this time it just didn't work on him. He doesn't believe him. I understand the gravity of what he's describing. I think my take on this is I don't doubt that

They want each other to be happy. It's sort of like that baseline of like, I believe that you two love one another. The question is like the way that you're going about it. I don't agree with that. Exactly. So needless to say, they're navigating some pretty complicated family dynamics right now. And things are only going to get more complicated because Harry's Oprah interview was just the tip of the iceberg.

So two months after Prince Philip's death. Megan gives birth to her and Harry's second child, Lilibeth. Wasn't there just like a quote reveal from the Queen? Where someone claims that she said, The only thing that I have in this life is my name, and now they've taken that. And someone was like, First of all, you are literally Elizabeth II. Yeah, girl. You stole your name from someone else. The levels of Dululu. So obviously this is a very joyous time, but it's also full of strife.

Archie and Lillabet aren't given the titles of prince and princess. And for their parents, that's more than just a slight, it's also a matter of safety. With the titles, they get security protections from the firm. And without them, they're on their own. Yeah, that to me is the most unforgivable blow. How do you not want your family members? Protected. Yeah. So let's just add this to the list of grievances between Harry and Will.

But Harry's got a trump card in his back pocket, you know, something that's going to fix this whole security situation. He's writing a memoir. Oh. He announces it a little more than a month after Lilibet's born. And he doesn't have a title yet, but his publisher calls it intimate and heartfelt. And goes on to say: if you wouldn't mind reading. Prince Harry will share for the very first time with his

The definitive account of the experiences, adventures, losses, and life lessons that have helped shape him. Okay, yes. This was a very titillating moment. Yes, and as you can imagine, the world goes crazy with anticipation. Nobody in the royal family writes a book, and the last time one did, it was explosive. That's right. We're talking about Princess Diana's memoir. And it seems that Harry is following in his mom's footsteps.

Though it's not clear yet whether that will be a good thing or a bad thing. Right. Because while Diana blew the lid off of the monarchy, her story ended in tragedy and she just became further sensationalized. Mm-hmm. And while Harry While Harry is trying to avoid that same fate, he kinda seems at this point like he's going down a similar path. Who knows what's going to happen this time around? Or what he might reveal about his family. Yeah, it feels dirty being like

so excited about it'cause I think we are also like part of the problem. But there is that humanitarian aspect of like he is Telling this story with the hope of Trying to change the system. Right. That's just me making myself feel better for eating up the gossip. So Harry's book announcement is now this looming danger on the horizon. But the book's not due for more than a year. In the meantime.

According to Royal Reporter Katie Nickel, Harry actually requests for a mediator to come in and help repair the relationship with his brother. But William is not so keen on this idea. Reportedly, William refuses to see his brother in person until the book comes out. He feels he cannot trust his younger brother not to repeat their conversations. Okay, fair. Right? Like I was like, okay. I agree actually.

The other part of me is like missed opportunity to come in and try to like massage things while you still can. Yeah. Maybe he would have written about you a little more nicely if you had met with him. Yeah. So four months before the book comes out, Harry and Megan are in Europe for a round of charity visits.

And that's when they learned that the Queen's doctors are concerned for her health. Mm. When the British say concerned about the Queen, that means that things are really, really Serious. Right. Here's Harry on Sixty Minutes with Anderson Cooper explaining what happened next. I asked my brother, I said, What are your plans? How are you and Kate getting up there? And then a couple of hours later

All of the fem family members that live within the Windsor and Askot area were jumping on a plane together. A plane with twelve, fourteen, maybe sixteen seats. You were not invited on that plane? I was not invited. So they weren't in the area. We don't really know where they were. They were in Europe.

They could have sent someone for him, like a chopper or something. I don't know, right? Right. I know. The details are a little murky to me because I'm like, okay, unless you were on the tarmac and they said not allowed Like it seems like you maybe were a little out of the way, but also I get the underlying point that he's making, which is I felt excluded on purpose.

Excluded and also, you know, now he has to arrange his own travel. Because even if he's not on their plane, they're not helping him. Right. And by the time he gets there, the queen has passed away. As far as we know, the other royals like made it in time to say their goodbyes. Yes. Interesting. Objectively incredibly sad and effed up, you know, that he couldn't say goodbye to his grandmother. Yeah, or they should have sent a plane for him.

They could have at least tried. Yeah, that is on the list of things, along with taking security away, that just is like it feels deliberately cruel. You know what I also don't understand? I don't understand why they keep making it so that he has nothing to lose. Yeah. Like they just keep. Burning away any goodwill he still has with them. And they're just turning him into even more of a loose cannon. He's got a rocket launcher aimed at you in this memoir, and like you're just

Giving him more fuel. Yeah. And he is about to live up to that wildcard moniker. Hello, I'm Matt Ford. And I'm Alice Levine. And we're the hosts of British Scandal. Now, Britain loves a royal scandal. Abdications We'd have the lot. But this series is about two brothers. Raised in palaces bound by tragedy, supposed to be inseparable. So how did they end up?

Barely speaking. Was it jealousy, the press, the firm? Or was this royal rift always inevitable? This is the story of Harrion Wills and the scandal that split the House of Windsor. Follow British Scandal wherever you get your podcast. Listen early and ad-free on Audible.

All right, Matt. So three months have passed since the Queen left us, and Harry and Megan are back in the States. And they drop a Netflix docuseries called Harry and Megan. Very inspired. Classic. Classic. It's six parts and there are some juicy details packed into it, a lot of which we've already covered.

This is when Harry makes it clear to the public that he thinks his family, including his brother, have planted stories in the British press to make Megan look bad and to make themselves look better. Right. Here's a clip of that. You know, there's leaking, but there's also planting of stories. Yeah. They will trade and give you something about someone else's principles. Weird understanding or acceptance that happens. It just is wild to me that that is how that institution operates.

I know. Like you're part of the same family. Why would these people be trying to spread dirt on others? I know. I guess it's like, well. Everybody's selfish deep down and wants to come across the best way. But like that's your like sister-in-law and brother, dumbass.

And they clearly have a lot of sacrificial lambs that they keep around. And for a little bit it was Kate, and before that it was Camilla, and now it's Megan. I do get though why this feels like an escalation in terms of like the accusation. Right. Oh the press is just particularly hard on Harry and Meghan and like the family is not doing enough. stop this from happening. Yeah. Or to counter it. And now it's like, no, not only they not stopping it, they are instant.

Complicit. Yeah, fully complicit. It's their brain child. Yeah. And he's saying it with his full chest, so good for him. This also is making me think like. Maybe some of the logic and like we're Americans, so we don't get the British press or whatever. But like the fact that the British press is so hungry for stories that that in order for any of them to survive, they have to keep throwing meat at them. And so why not throw your brother under the bus rather than take any bites yourself?

I get what you're saying. It makes sense. Yeah, I think shows like the crown try to position that struggle as like if we don't maintain a popular enough image, then they'll get rid of the monarchy altogether. God forbid. Well, true to form, William, along with his dad, have a couple high profile outings to project the idea that they're not bothered by any of this.

Just like you said, like he went to a school when they were accused of being racist. Now they're doing some really high publicity things to distract. Mm-hmm. They're trying to show that they're above it. Right. A day after part one of the series drops, King Charles goes to Wales to meet with.

With Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney for their docuseries, Welcome to Wrexham about an ailing Welsh soccer team. I like and trying to picture King Charles having any concept of always sunny in Philadelphia. Very funny to me. The phrase King Charles to me still like hits my ear in a really aggressive way. I just can't This is the first time I've said it and it rattles me. Yeah, it's upsetting.

So the next week, after part two of the series drops, William attends a Christmas Carol service at Westminster Abbey. Hosted by Kate. The Daily Mail runs a headline the next morning that reads in huge letters Dignity in the face of treachery. Classic hyperbole from the Daily Mail. Their headlines are always crazy. So the other tabloids start to jump in as well.

The sun's headline is The Traitor and the Dutiful The Daily Star says, and their title is a little longer The world's most private man yesterday invaded his family's privacy by revealing just how horrible they were to him, allegedly. I can't believe that's a title. After hearing that, it's making me realize The true meaning of dignity in the face of treachery. Cause I initially read that as like a dig at Kate and William. No. No. Now it's

No obviously not that. I'm like, what the hell was I thinking? Oh, that's what you're no, the it's extolling them. Right. They're calling Harry what he's doing treachery. Yes. Got it. Now you may have noticed that all of those headlines use very similar language. And you know, we'll never know whether the tabloids came to that conclusion on their own.

or if there were any palace briefings that encouraged them to write the narrative that way. Mm-hmm. But it's hard to ignore. The similarities, yeah. Yeah, the through line. But while the palace may be able to sway the British press to cover things a certain way. They can no longer control Harry, as we said, wild card, loose canon. Right. And everyone is now waiting with bated breath for what he's going to say in his book.

So less than a month later. Harry's memoir Spare finally comes out. Mm-hmm. He narrates the audiobook, as you well know. Oh yeah. Once again, I have two copies. Two copies. And I'm also sure that you've heard at least a few clips go viral. A lot of them about his penis. That's mostly how I got my exposure. I just saw people posting clips of it on Twitter. Yeah. I feel like the story about him having a frost bitten penis and then the clip of him just in a monotone voice.

Reciting the Spice Girls lyrics. Yeah. He talks about a lot of stuff in that book. I mean, he knew how to write a tantalizing book. He really did. He delivered. And while there are funny bits, there are more serious moments. Harry doubles down on the accusation that his family planted stories about him in the past. He also calls William his arch nemesis. He even claims that William got physical with him and attacked.

attacked him during a fight about Meghan. Right. Harry says that William criticized Meghan's treatment of the staff and the two brothers got into it. And apparently William knocked Harry to the ground, breaking a dish beneath his back in the process and resulting in visible injuries. Jesus For what it's worth, Harry tells ITV journalist Tom Bradby that this is basically how he and William used to act when they were kids. You know, like they used to fight.

But it's a big difference now that they're grown men. And he also goes on to say that if he wasn't in therapy, he probably would have fought back. But he chose not to. Okay. It sounds like he lost the fight. He did a little bit, but don't you also believe like looking at them, I would be shocked if Harry couldn't take William in a fight.

Yeah. I would expect him to win. As we've also talked about on this podcast before, older siblings almost always win in fights. Right. Because it's also a mental thing. Like baseline, this is Hillbilly behavior. Like this is Fighting with your brother over like he said your wife is like mean to the staff or something. No, it's wild that they have these problems. Your dad's face is on money. Act like it. Yeah.

To promote the book, Harry goes on 60 Minutes and talks to Anderson Cooper. This is from the same interview that we already heard a clip from. He talks a little more about the physical fight between him and William. Here's that clip. It was a buildup of frustration, I think, on his part. It was at a time where he was being told certain things by people within his office and at the same time he was consuming a lot of the tabloid press, a lot of the stories.

And he had a few issues which were based not on reality. And I was defending my And he was coming for my wife. She wasn't there at the time. He was coming for my wife. It's hot. I'm sorry. It's hot that he said that. Yeah, no, I'm still very into him. Yeah. But saying like he had a few concerns, but They were not based in reality is a great way of being like, You're a big fat liar. Okay, Frankie Muniz. For what it's worth In his memoir and I feel like we've been watching.

He really calls out the world. Stepmother Camilla. Finally, Camilla Truther. We're having our moment. We're hearing it. Yeah, Camilla Hater Hive. Rise. Rise. Хі акклюзир of being the worst of them. releasing stories about him to the press in order to stoke the fire of his rivalry with William and to make Harry look bad. Mm-hmm. Because at least according to Harry,

That's just the way his family operates. They tear one person down to lift another one up. Right. In this case, Camilla was sacrificing him on her. Personal PR Altar. Which like what is in it for her? Everyone hates her. I genuinely think she doesn't even want to be liked now. She just wants other people to be hated as much as she is. And it's like, girl, impossible. You broke Princess Diana. Yeah. This feud is so much bigger than just the two brothers.

But William, as the future king, represents the entire royal institution. Every fight that Harry has with the family is a fight with his brother as well. So even if he's fighting Camilla. That's gonna create more problems for William, I guess, somehow. And this memoir has crossed a line that there's no coming back from. Yeah, it's kind of hard to unpublish your tell-all memoir that dragged your whole family. You can't tell.

Okay Matt. So, I don't know if this will shock you, but behind closed doors, apparently the royal family, according to sources, are absolutely rattled. by Harry's memoir. I hope so. They should be shaking. Can you read what one source tells us weekly? At this point, William's got no plans to speak to Harry. He's come to terms with the fact that he's lost his little brother and quite possibly for life. Are we trusting a source that's speaking to us weekly about the royal family?

That was my thought. I mean, let's assume that this is true. It feels a little ultimatum y in a not convincing way. I agree. Another source calls their relationship a toxic stalemate. And another says, the relationship isn't even rock bottom now. It's not existent. Yeah, that sounds about right. I think a lot of this is fueled probably by William's hurt feelings. You know, Harry had a lot to say about him in the book. Right. But Harry also took aim at Kate. And maybe William feels that

Harry was making Kate look bad in order to defend Megan. And that was going a step too far. Right. Even though in my opinion, like if Harry is just saying what happened, Then that's kind of your own behavior making you look bad. Yeah. So in spare, Harry explains how Kate and Megan texted about a problem with the bridesmaid's dress for her daughter Charlotte. Do you remember this? This is when we find out, you know, really what the dresses were about.

So as you may remember, he starts with a text Kate allegedly sent Megan. Can you read this exchange? This is kind of confusing because it's Harry from his book explaining this text exchange. So Charlotte's dress is too big, too long, too baggy. She cried when she tried it on at home, Kate said. Right, and I told you the tailor has been standing by since eight AM here at KP. Can you take Charlotte to have it altered as the other moms are doing? Kate says

No, all the dresses need to be remade. So then it keeps going back a bit until eventually Harry comes home and he finds Meghan sobbing on the floor. I mean, where to begin? Yeah, there's uh a lot here because if I remember some of the subtext was like Megan going into the days leading up to their wedding. There was all of this drama going on with her father and like whether he was invited to the wedding.

He was kind of becoming this whole tabloid spectacle. Yeah. Cause he loved to give a quote, honey. Right. And I feel like Megan is the voice of reason in that moment where she's like, You literally have a tailor here. on call, who can fix things for you at a moment's notice. Why are we even arguing about this? What I so desperately wish is that we got Kate. Kate's interpretation of this. I mean Kate does look bad in this. She looks

Like she's complaining over something petty and that she has no sensitivity to like the drama that Megan is going through with her dad. And I would love to know if there's something that's being left out here that Kate might be. like no no no that's not how it went down. Yeah maybe maybe we'll get her memoir one day. Sure. If you remember there was this story about Megan making Kate cry in the lead up to the wedding. Right. And actually what happened is that Kate

Made Megan cry. Yes. And so it didn't even have to be a story, but the palace leaked this information clearly. Right. And now they're getting caught. Yeah, my point was just like in Families. This happens. Yeah. This drama would happen, and then everybody would just kind of simmer for the rest of their lives and.

you'd sort of angrily bring rice crispy treats to the family party and like throw them on the table. Like that is how most people deal with it. Yeah. Not in this family. Yeah. It just got blown out of proportion. Despite all of this.

Harry says that he still really does want a reconciliation and resolution. but only if he gets an apology from his brother and father for the way things have gone down. He says the ball is in their court. He's been in America too long. And there's this looming event on the horizon that might bring about a Confrontation sooner rather than later. King Charles's coronation ceremony. Oh right. Will Harry attend? Does anyone even want him to?

At the same time, there's another question up in the air. Now that Charles is king, will he give Meghan and Harry's kids the royal titles that they want for them? Charles is notorious for wanting to trim down the monarchy. So adding more senior royals isn't exactly a part of his plan.

People aren't sure if he's gonna be too keen on giving them anything, especially after that Netflix special and a tell all memoir and the Oprah interview. But It seems that Charles knows that to not give them titles would be wildly unpopular, and at least the way I see it. Charles has, more than anything, always wanted to be popular. True. So he goes ahead and gives Archie and Lil Beth the titles of Prince and Princess.

Although we should note that he also has the power to revoke those titles anytime he wants. Sure. So the next time Harry gets out of line we'll see. Once again, I'm just like, these are made up. Like it costs him nothing to do this. It costs the taxpayers, if anything. True. For the time being though, Harry and Megan got what they wanted.

Two months before Charles' coronation, they have a christening ceremony for Princess Lilibet in their Montecito home in California. They do extend an invite to Prince Charles, Queen Consort Camilla and William and Queen. Kate. But none of them attend. Hard to say why. Yeah, I don't think they're going to Montecito. Reports say that William is not in the mood for any kind of conversation. Okay. Regardless, Harry does what his family didn't.

Two months after Lilibeth's christening, he travels to England for the coronation. Megan doesn't attend at all, instead staying with their kids in the States. Feel like she made a good call on that one. Yeah, that's kind of again like a lose lose situation for her. Yeah. Harry has no formal role in the ceremony.

And he doesn't sit with the rest of the senior royals either. He's back in the third row. And in case you were wondering who else is in the third row, none other than Prince Andrew, who you may remember was a close friend of Jeffrey Epstein's and accused of sexually assaulting at least two women. one of whom was a teenager at the time.

So that's where he's been relegated to. Well yeah, what are they gonna just sit Andrew by himself in his own child molester row? No, what I mean is that that's where Harry has to sit now. I know, I know. He has to sit in the sex predator row. But yeah, it kind of gives you an idea of what the family thinks of him. Right. This is not over. I don't know if you're surprised by that information, but we're still going with the jabs. Yeah. I am interested in what you think of this.

Okay. So throughout 2023, the royal family's social media accounts didn't wish a happy birthday to Harry, Megan, Archie, or Lilibet. But did they wish everybody else? Peace. For it to be all four of them like this, it's very obviously on purpose. Yeah. And the fact that someone sat down and made the decision that we're not going to wish them a happy birthday is So stupid on Twitter of all places. Yeah.

Harry and William's relationship today is still icy. Some reports say that Kate still wants the brothers to reconcile, but that she is the only royal still hoping for that. Right.

As I'm sure you know by now, Kate recently revealed that she's been diagnosed with cancer. And as truly awful as that is for her and her family, I do wonder if it might ease the tension between Harry and William and lead to some sort of reconciliation. I mean, after all, Harry seems to truly love Kate like a sister. And during trying times like this,

families often put aside their differences and come together. And yet, Harry and William's relationship extends much farther than just being brothers. William reflects the royal family, and Harry reflects the cracks in the monarchy. It's unclear if they'll ever be able to bridge that gap. But obviously the world will be keeping a very close eye on everything they do and everything they don't do. Because if we've learned anything from this feud, what you say might sting.

But it's what you don't say that can really be a stab to the heart. So true. TLC needs to sing that. That would be so beautiful. I would listen. It almost feels crazy to talk about this. feud because everything we've discussed is just like a normal family issue with the stakes turned up to a thousand. Yeah, like a lot of the actual beef here is just over Interfamily relationship stuff that like everybody has experienced at on some level. Bridesmaids' dresses.

commenting about a brother's new girlfriend, all of that stuff. Your family not being able to catch up to your wokeness. This apart, I've said it throughout this episode, is like the rabidness of the press that makes.

The royal family, this like eat or be eaten environment. Yeah. Because otherwise it doesn't make sense for them not to just unite together and put up a united front. Yeah. And I feel like Even in America, like I was trying to think I know that when Jimmy Carter was president, the press was like Really, really aggressive.

And mean to his daughter. And that kind of changed the way that the press talked about presidential families. Right. Obviously, some people break that unspoken rule, but for the most part, we don't go after president's kids. And I feel like they just completely disregard that idea over there. Everyone is fair game. Yeah, they'll rip apart a freshly born baby and be excited about it. Jesus. What is wild to me is that I think most feuds that we talk about, it's like most of the people involved are

Actors or people who like you have another and the feud is sort of like getting in the way of you doing that other job. It's almost secondary. For this, it's like you don't. Have a job. Your entire life should just be figuring out how to fix this because this is all you have. Oh my God. Yeah. That's exactly it.

I think at the end of this two part episode, the thing that I really take away is that you did not wish me a happy birthday. I didn't? This year. Not on social media. I didn't get a dedicated happy birthday post. Okay, well You know what? In the spirit of forgiveness and being diametrically opposed to Prince William, I will admit to my mistake and I will change my behavior. And in 2024, You will be getting a birthday message of some kind. Well, my half birthday is on Friday, so you can half.

From Wondery, this is Dis Antell, Prince Harry and Prince William, part two of two. The show is hosted by me, Sidney Battle. And me, Matt Belisai. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were Spare by Prince Harry and Battle of Brothers, William and Harry, The Inside Story of a Family in Tumult by Robert Lacey. Alex Burns wrote this episode.

Kate Downey is our lead producer, Yasmin Ward is our producer, and Jake Dvorski is our associate producer. Our senior story editor is Alex Burns and our story editor is Greg Castro. Sound design is done by Kelly Krameric with additional audio assistance provided by Adrian Tapia. Fact-checking by Sonia Maynard. Our music supervisor is Scott Velazquez for Freeze on Sync.

Sophia Martins is our managing producer and Sarah Kenny Corrigan is our coordinating producer. Our executive producers are Janine Cornelo, Stephanie Jens, Marshall Lewey, and Aaron O'Flarity for Wondery.