create a better connection between the brand and the customer. So I think we're looking at different ways to incorporate it where we can see value and it can, and not just for the for the brand, but for the customer as well. So I think we're not just looking at AI like a blanket like replacement. It's like, where can it really, you know, solve a problem. If you believe we can change the narrative. If you believe, we can change our communities.
If you believe we can change the outcomes, then we can change the world. I'm Rob Richardson. Welcome One. Welcome to disruption. Now I'm your host and moderator, Rob Richardson. As always, it's great to be joined here at 1819. if you're if you're watching this, please like please comment. That's how we get our message out. More about all the disruption and all the creators and all the brilliant minds we have on here that are disrupting common narratives and constructs. With me is Adam Khan.
He is the chief creative officer for Great Midwest. We're going to have a discussion. Do you see AI for creativity as a threat? Is an opportunity? Is it both? I don't know. These are like the discussions people are having. Like what do we do with this massive technology? How do we view it especially as a creator? Adam, good to have you on another. Very, very, very happy to be here. So thank you for having me. Yeah. So I know you, Adam, are creative at heart.
Like, we've, you've used creative and, and and combine technology. You did that with Web3. With, NFTs. Right? And you. And you've helped, like, use your creative, mind to, to really merge technology. and I think NFTs are still a thing, but they're but in comparison to scale, AI is just a whole nother level. in terms of, like, what's happening with the creator economy. I just love to get your thoughts about what do you see as the future of creatives and what role does I play with that?
at everything, I think, you know, I've been I've been in this advertising industry for 18 years. And, you know, when I got in, it really was about a few key principles to making great work. Yes. And and you had some tools, that you, you had access to. It was, it was limiting. But now, today with AI and all the innovation that's been happening over the past, you know, you know, 510 years, it has just changed everything about how we think about creation in general. Right.
So, you know, in, in the ad worlds, you know, you come up with an idea for a brand and then you'd have to hire all these other people to help execute your vision. Right. But today, I really don't need them right to the same capacity as I do, because I have AI. Right? And I think it's going to, be impossible to move forward without incorporating it into your skill set. because it, it, it gives you the ability to move at a speed in which you never would have imagined.
And, I don't want to ever cut out those that helped in the past or help build things, but, it really is going to become a massive skill set that everyone has to learn to, to continue pursuing creativity. But I imagine, businesses are going to have expectations as they there's always been there's already been, you know, this pressure to, on, on your clients to bring down costs. I don't know what your how are your clients talking about AI?
Do they do they assume like, okay, used to be able to do this for less because I hear now do they make that assumption? If so, how do you navigate something like that? okay. So it's a very recent topic. I'd say over the past, 16 months, I've been meeting with, with most of the clients talking about AI because I think AI is like can be seen in so many different facets, right?
Right. You know, I think we typically think of AI as like ChatGPT or you got the Midjourney for visuals, but then there's like AI from a productivity standpoint and an efficiency standpoint that most people aren't even thinking about. So I think when we've approached them, we try and communicate as best as possible. One the creative opportunities that it can unleash and unlock and make for you. But then also some of the side effects, I'd say for using.
Yeah. I you know, that to some extent we still don't know where some assets come from. Yes, we want to partner with those that license, etc.. so you kind of balance the risk and reward. I haven't seen too many clients I want to totally move over to. I think they're exploring the possibility of what it can do and how we would use it to, either attract talent, new customers or more revenue.
you know, some examples could be, we are very used to going to like a delta.com and instead of waiting six minutes for a callback, we can text. But what if you, that chat bot, relationship was actually a 3D avatar that was built on AI who could actually talk to you about your needs of, you know, upcoming travel, visually. Right. So, you know, there's AI platforms that are turning, you know, the old antiquated chat bots into people. Exactly. To make a more human.
I think, you know, for maybe that brand that actually might create a better connection between the brand and the customer. So I think we're looking at different ways to incorporate it where we can see value and it can, and not just for the for the brand, but for the customer as well. So I think we're not just looking at AI like a blanket like replacement. It's like, where can it really, you know, solve a problem. So you are creative naturally.
And we talked we had this conversation offline about like how both of us because, I consider myself a creative in some ways. And I have ADHD. I have a million things on my mind. And, you know, I have found it useful to, to actually use, ChatGPT and multiple tools of artificial intelligence to really help me bring out all these thoughts and organizing.
I'm curious, you know, as a creative, what how how have you used it and what are some tools that you know, from a creative point of view, that a creator should embrace based upon your experience? Sure. So, I'll give you a few examples. You know, I'm an artist by trade and designer. but I also know my limitations. So, you know, one thing I use Midjourney for almost every single day is basically a digital sketchbook.
So any ideas I have, whether it's a character or a story, I just jot it down, prompt it, and output kind of like a digital digital memory. So I think from a visualization standpoint, I'm using it obsessively, right. for so many reasons. One, I can't draw as fast as I think to. I know my limits, and sometimes I just can't, produce what I'm visualizing, with with the tools I have. Right. and it helps me do a lot of, like, I'd say, daydreaming. Right. you know, we have great ideas sometimes.
And sometimes I can't find all these people to think through it or put it down, and it just helps me in 30s outputs something that that will help me remember where I want to go next, you know, from, like a ChatGPT standpoint, I am not a writer, all right? I might be a good storyteller, I might have great ideas. But when it comes to like structurally writing things, I need it for help. Whether it's emails, feedback, reviews, you know, emailing, customer service about a problem.
I think that it helps me, eliminate a lot of the friction it gets me to go from, you know, A to B, right. and it lets me, puts my thoughts down and then, you know, format in a way that someone would want to receive it. and then I think from, you know, an AI standpoint and just like creative exploration. Yeah, it's opening me up to how utilizing more than just one tool can really unlock, so many more ways to be, expressive as creative. Right?
You know, so, you know. Sure. I'll use Midjourney to create an image, but, putting it in Firefly and adapting it, you know, stretching it, beyond the initial cropping and letting me change things is actually really getting me to think differently about, how, the creative output could be at the, at the end, you know, instead of, like, hiring someone to do a photo shoot with a person wearing a blue shirt, now I can have that person.
I can adapt the clothing, you know, on the computer using AI until I see it as a viable product. Yeah, yeah. So with that, like, I think about, like, I think there's just there's really this debate I had and I had another, a designer, on my, on my podcast is just the last podcast. It just came out, his view was he definitely uses AI, but his view was that AI doesn't doesn't it won't make you creative. It's not a word I say this way. It doesn't replace creativity. it in the.
For those who rely on that solely, they will be outpaced by those who are creative and use it. What is your thought on that? Yeah, I don't I think I think AI is creative. I mean, it has to be to some extent. I think, I think that it's going to you're going to have to understand how to use AI to truly be creative versus it being like a set it and forget it. I think there is an element of creativity, of prompting and creating the output.
But at the end of the day, too, I think it all comes down to taste, style and sensibility. Yeah. So anyone can put anything into the prompt and see a result. But unless you have taste and style right, you're only going to reach a certain threshold like, you know, there was a way that the early, let's say end of 21 where like, I think everyone just got tired of AI because they're like, everything looks the same, right?
and then there were some modifications and updates, and you see people starting to incorporate real design into, what the initial output is. And that's where it starts to really unlock the possibilities. So I think taste helps you blend. That's a good way of putting it. Like I, I went to a, I went to this performance a couple, I think it was last week. and, and a performer that's coming to Midwest. Com. Lisa. Fancy five, actually is her name.
She had a, a performance about authentic intelligence and said the age of AI is not going to. What's going to still matter is, it's kind of, like, similar. What you're saying taste and style. What makes you an authentic person affects offensive creator. And thinking about how you put that and then get ideas and other expressions for that. And so like, how do you balance that out? Like how how do you advise people to think about how do you tap into your authentic self?
What does that look like for you? I mean, I think, I think I use the same lens that I apply at work. Like if you have an idea, art, your your first go at it is like go to Getty or stock photography site to find something that reflects an element of the vision, and then you hope that you can go shoot it. And that's where your craft style and taste come out in the final execution. I think that comes with years of experience.
I agree, and there is a big difference between good and great, you know, and I think those sites like, you know, that have stock photography serve a real purpose. But when you want to elevate the craft and creativity, you you do have to have, and I think an element of expertise and experience to uplevel the work. Otherwise you're just going to get the status quo.
Yeah, I agree, and I think about like what I think about the creativity that a lot of that that was generated out of the 80s and the 90s that just thinking about music right now that say we don't have any creativity now we have some, but it's nothing compared to like the 80s and 90s early 2000s. And I'm not saying that just because we're we're a little more seasoned old a little bit, but what I'm saying is that, like you look at like think about Michael Jackson, right?
How much effort he put into his craft. Right? Right. In terms of being able to dance, perform right. Produce right. Like so I do think people are had this sense that, hey, you don't need to do some of these things, I believe, to get that authentic self, to get that authentic kind of like what makes you great. You still have to go through some of that work and process it. I can enhance that.
I think it's people that are just looking to think that they can be mediocre and that those people will have some trouble because, you know, I think people can still tell when thing, when, when there's no authenticity put into it. I think. Yeah. And I mean, I, I know I, we probably sound old saying that. Like you probably do. You know, I, I still think that people need to start off on the ground floor, like learn how things are made before they can skip steps.
you know, again, me using AI and everything now isn't shortcutting anything for me. I still draw every day and and use my brain, but there is an element that is, you know, a bit speedier to market than what I'm used to, but I'm still applying the same sort of taste, sensibility, style and years of experience in the in the output. It's just manifesting differently.
Yeah. I also think authenticity and or leaning have into this, but I think it's important is like, a lot of folks aren't used to doing this either. Like in terms of like, you know, newer generations, it's because everything can't be replaced with technology, right? Everything can't be replaced with a text message.
people will tell you, like, even the most, expert people in implementing technology is three things in order to do it right, people, process which is learning stuff and then technology. Right. So like and but people think you can start with technology and work backwards and that's the problem. Right. And that's why I think we produce a lot of things that seem similar. because to me music sounds really similar now.
Like for the most case there are exceptions or there are some very creative people and that's one example. But there others and people I think will die for that taste and style and that authenticity to come. I, I will. I noticed this the other day though. It's getting harder and harder to really see what's real and what isn't real though.
And I think like as an artist, as much as I love this stuff, it is a bit of a battle because if you open acts or, you know, or Instagram and you see all this beautiful photography and art does beg the question, is it real anymore or is it not? Because the how do we got that? Like what's what's your thought on that? Like what should we do about that.
Because I don't well I think, I think there's, I think that there's a few way I think the government and other companies have talked about, like calling out and truly identifying what is. I. Yeah. but I think in general, like I'm questioning if people even appreciate real art anymore. Yeah. because I can make, to some extent what I do in, Midjourney in a few seconds through, so I don't want to lose that appreciation for real handcrafted. So you're not sure if people do? I don't know.
I don't know, my hope maybe I'm an optimist is that people will still want to connect with people. Oh, yeah, I definitely think that's true. I think, you know, I've seen sales slip for a lot of artists. Right. or people just being like, yeah, it's cool. Like, yeah, I can make it. Yeah. so I'm really concerned about, like, you know, people's well-being and career. I kind of goes to what we talked about, too, with, Tyler Perry. Tyler Perry.
I was building, I think, a $800 million studio in Atlanta. He saw saw AI and halted production. And and I think his words were like, we have to figure out what this policy looks like. because it's, you know, this, this this made him stop, like, obviously something that's to have a lot of support for a lot of creatives in a big industry. So I think your, your, your concerns are well-founded. I mean, I when I saw that article, I was a little frustrated. Why were you frustrated?
Because, when you look at what saw, and other people have done with, runway, you should look in to runway. they have done an amazing job with conceptualizing ideas like nuggets of ideas. There was a gentleman on X. I can't keep saying assets. You know, it's. Twitter, but I just can't say, this. Yeah, okay. I think he. Was the first person who did the. Platform formerly known as Twitter. There you go. He, he created the first movie trailer. Totally built, with eyes.
He used ChatGPT and Midjourney, runway and other tools, and it looked phenomenal. It was like Dune meets Star Wars. I think he used cap cut to edit it, but you got to go shoot that. You got to get into production. So I think I worry that, like, just assuming that these tools can replace all the handcrafted, right? Storytelling, is, is a little too far fetched right now.
I understand that maybe he wants to cancel it because he wants to think about, like, who's really needed in this $800 million studio, moving forward. But, to kind of pause and halt thinking that it's going to replace a lot, I think is, it's a little troublesome to for jobs in L.A. and people's careers. You know, we're focused a lot here at the Universe Society well, as well as as well as Midwest Con. Like, what does policy look like around data like?
Because when we talk about AI, it's, it's really we're talking about data. and so like, I'm really thinking about, like, if we don't get this right to your point, like what I, what I fear could happen is that people don't know what's real and what's not. Right. And there so the initial part people might like it because the algorithms know us better than we know ourselves in some ways. But we've also seen the negative side of algorithms that don't have any type of restraint.
That is what I call social media right now. Right. Like we we've seen that. At least that's my perspective. I can probably say that a lot of social media companies start off with the best of intentions. I think Facebook was about connecting the world, right. That happened until it disconnected the world, because then the algorithms took over. Right? And the goal was engagement at all costs. Yeah. It wasn't about, making sure the world was connected. It became, how do I keep you glued?
And how people stay glued is that they're always mad and arguing with each other. Right. So that's what they give people. And it's hacking their brains in some way. I do have that fear that it could hack our brains. that and then it could also do something where people, enough people get upset that they want to shut down innovation, which is also bad. Right. So I believe the most important thing we need to do is figure out a way to do this and still, keep trust.
I think, it needs to be augmented intelligence. Not not not not not completely artificial. Yeah. and I think we got to find that balance in. And I still think people will want to. Maybe I'm naive and I still think people will want to connect with people. And I think we should we should know if we're talking to a person, right. Or a false person and some people and entertainment is fine, right? If I'm watching Disney, I know, I know what's happening.
Right? But if someone's pretending to be Adam Con, I need to know if it's you or is fake. It. If it is a fake version of you that you approved it, right? Because that's you, right? And no, like, we don't know. We have laws against that that are going to protect your image and likeness. But it's we're we're entering into an area that, like you said, we just don't know like what shouldn't we do with AI?
If you had to say what we talked about, what we can't do, but what what should be off the table from your perspective? make, make it the only thing we interact with. You know. I mean, I think that's where you get to, like, AGI and some some craziness. Right? I do think it's I've listened to a lot of podcasts.
It's going to be really hard to, like, crack down on what's what's real and fake, I think to a point where I've, like, almost given up, like reading the news somewhere or, you know, going through X or Twitter. I mean, yeah, you don't I don't know where that's where you get that. I don't know what's real or fake.
And I do think that that's going to just totally screw up this next generation in understanding, like what's really happening in the, in the world, versus what people are telling you what's happening. Well, that's good. So how do you go about getting getting your news then? I don't turn it off. No. I know my wife has gotten so mad at me lately because I'm like, I'm just refuse to watch you because everything is so skewed. You're like me. To a perspective. You know? So I have I have a lot.
I've said often, news is to the mind as sugar is to the body. It's a hit. Yeah, but then it takes you down. It makes you actually feel some type of reaction. But then you go downward. Know it's meant to is meant to do that to. We don't need actually as much information as we get. That's also part of the problem. Right, right. but but I do think what I so something I do is I don't I try not to look at the news on Twitter or anything else.
I do read long form content and I'll maybe listen to a podcast about something, because that's less likely to trigger, right, than seeing a reaction, because on social media, the goal is to capture your attention. Yeah, it's not to inform you. Right. And so I try to pull myself back, but most people it's it's it's by the way, it's impossible to do it all the time.
Yeah. Most people don't know I listen to a lot of podcasts because I think that's kind of where I get my source for like tech and yeah, and all that stuff happen in the world. But even local news in the paper, it's just so depressing. It is, though. The goal is to depress you and get you to angry. And I'm like, I'm not. I'm not doing. It. I remember as a couple of years ago I called my buddy. I used to live in Manhattan, I called him, I was like, dude,
what is going on there? And he's like, what are you talking about? Yeah, he's like, it's a nice day out. I'm in Union Square and I'm like, well, the news just said there was a shooting here and then a murder there, and then someone got dragged and he was like, yeah, no. We're good, we're good, we're good, we're good. Okay, well, this is a little scary. Yeah. All right.
So what do you want it like, what would you tell future creatives, people that are in this world that are just starting like, I mean, let's face it, this way. Your creator, you are. You always been. It's in your heart. what advice would you give yourself as a younger creator? Right. You're talking to young at this time. And then what advice would you ignore? what advice would I give the younger Adam? I typically say nothing because I. I like that I made all these mistakes. Right.
but, and and and failed a million times, I think. I think the advice I'd give my younger self is like, don't, don't cut corners. You know, obviously we had less tools back then. and focus more on the craft you want to be excellent at. I think I tried a lot of things. you know, whether it was going into the movie industry or being an artist. And I think, I wish I had spent more time crafting certain things that I thought could be really great strengths. Right.
And don't be afraid to fail and fail and fail and fail. Because I think that's where you get the most, learning experiences. No. Agreed. all right, another lightning round question. This is this always trips up, people. What's an important truth you have that very few people agree with you on? truth that I have. Oh, man. As it relates to my own art, anything, man, that I don't I don't want your feedback.
I think that, hopefully I don't get dinged for saying this, but, when I was in art school, my professor went up to a piece that I had made and asked me kind of kind of a tough question to answer as an 18 year old. And he said, he's like, let's look at this. Let's talk about this piece. are you are you masturbating or doing art? And I was like, what's wow. And only are teachers, but yeah. And that has stuck with me, for forever and really, I think the crux of it is,
are you doing art for yourself or are you doing, for other. Right. And I think when I do art, it really is for me. And for the most part, like I think that it's the one thing that I own, that that I want to create what I want versus it being like, nipped and tucked by budgets and constraints. And then so I think that would be my one truth. So sometimes art's just for me. Yeah. And I think I would argue the greatest artists probably have that.
Like I think about like they probably didn't go out in, think about what everyone's opinion is going to be and like, how can I make something great? It's greatness comes from within. And then you share it with the world. It is your unique experience. But I kind of going back to the authentic intelligence, right? I actually think we all are artists in our own way. We are all expressing ourselves in this world, whatever, whatever God gave us, we had to figure out how to use that.
And if we listen to too many voices, you can drown out who you are. That doesn't mean don't listen to people I don't want I don't want people to take that. But I do believe one of the problems we're facing in this generation is that social media has it that you you do things to compare yourself to others and not figure out how to get in tune with what makes you great. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just think that's, that's a I think that's a really good truth that you have.
And that's why you're able to be creative. Because if you're trying to be like everybody else, you come up with art that's like everything else, right. Right. Right. Yeah. All right. You got a committee of three. They can be living. They can be dead. You can combine living and dead. Yeah. They can advise you on business, life, creativity. Tell me who these three people are and why.
Steve Jobs I think for, for obvious reasons, Jake Burton, the founder of Burton Snowboards, I guess quickly because, you know, at a time when, there were, you know, two flankers, skiers, ruled the mountain. there was one individual who really pursued, a different sport, and it got rejected over years and years and kind of built one of the largest snowboarding companies. so I think, you know, he's not living anymore.
but I would love to know how he got through all the tough times and pursued a vision that was honestly widely rejected. So that would be my question for him. And then, finally, mixer was one of the first artists I ever saw as a child. and it was the kind of art that I just stared at for hours being like, how did you do this?
And I think, I think those three people have always been really interesting to me from, you know, someone who, went against the grain for design innovation and had really strong beliefs and what great greatness is. And then someone that, when, when against the current when it came to trends and popularity, and then just art for the sake of doing art and blowing your mind I think is always just fascinating. All right. The had a motto and life slogan. What is it?
It kind of kind of ties into, my art, but it's simple. It's I am what I am, and what I am is me. I love it, Adam. Let's have you on, brother. Thank you very much for having me, Rob, I appreciate it. It's it's. Great.