MUTABLE

Hello what? Tal? Good afternoon, I' m Karen Ramirez and we ' re in a new season of Radio. He designs in your ears and I am very happy to start this way the two thousand twenty- four, because apart from this new season of the program that we have here in designing ando, because we will have new programs and I am already very excited that

they already know them to the new members of radio. And because I already started the strong season here, I invited an industrial designer who I am his fan of his work and, besides, he is a great friend and that, besides he had already been here with us on D Radio, but he does like for the two thousand seventeen, two thousand eighteen, then I need, like the refresh of all this time, that we have not been here as such in an interview because we have seen each other outside, but no

more, not here Andy Radio and I am here with César pinter of mutable and how you are my dear Caesar. All right. Thank you very much, Karen, for the invitation. This one thrills me so much this season and thank you so much for inviting me. I didn' t say I ' m going to start strong and I' m going to start stopping man, because thank you very much. The truth is, it' s cool not to thank you very much for being here again. I' ve missed you so much already being here in the microphone with you. Yeah,'

cause we put the gossip all of a sudden in the instagram. But yes, but we haven' t talked exactly. Yes, exactly, but it ' s good that you' re here again with me and in the first variation hereen mutable that I say is that now only you are up to the forehead of mutables. But before you tell me that, tell me because we already have new followers, etcetera. I mean, two thousand eighteen, so if we already have several, then I want to know who that paint is

for the public. Okay, well, Caesar pinter is, first of all, a great lover of aesthetic design. I am a happy dad and that part of my life has led me as a teaching to be now in mutable, in a new stage, with new perspectives, with new things to do, with new furniture coming soon. Currently industrial designer, but I studied graphic design. That' s something, but I' m gonna talk to you a little bit. Yes, I' m an architect' s son and

my brothers are industrialists. I really spent it at the kid' s workshop all the time. I don' t know why I studied graphic design. I don' t think I know if the rebel part of saying no. I' m not going to do what my brothers are or I' m not going to be an architect either. But, well, in the end it' s the school that comes from there and always all my designs are

related to three- dimensional objects. It' s funny to note that this is like everything I could visualize so I don' t know at that time book covers, I always ended up solving them three- dimensionally and then I

photographed them and then it was either to the cover. This is where this school of industrial design comes from, because with my brothers I read the books they were leaving them and by the time I arrived at graphic design, because I already had the question of the object, more than graphic, although I love the graphic. And from there, it was as if everything was detached, that is, seeing it now as a retrospective, it was very evident

that the path was walking towards the object. Okay now I mean, it ' s nice that you and you realized that, but I think that' s your graphic designer training. Yes, it served you, that is, yes, yes definitely, that is, I have found that many people in the graphic and industrial guilds say that some are better than the others, but in reality we are looking for the same thing. Sure, we' re going to the same place and in the end, the rules of aesthetics are

in the same places. He explained to me perhaps on one side, you learn then, I what I know this, because diagramming Y and on this other side, you learn because equally the structure ru furniture explained me clear then even to the same architects, i e, you know, it is the same joke that moves these create yes to create, and these three professions that somehow touch are closely related. Yeah, yeah, we give them you know exactly, because now you see a lot of architects who make some furniture.

Well, it has always happened that the architects become their furniture and in the end is that a search towards aesthetics and towards the dialogue that the architect or graphic designer has or in the industrial. Okay very well, and then, when you realized that your thing was like the object, what did you decide to do? You decided to go to work with someone or learn the trade or what did you decide? It was funny because my first studio was graphic

and photos. When I realized, I was doing a lot of photo and a lot of object, but all the objects made them like this because as for the house, you know, then I really liked to make furniture and we had a workshop, a first workshop that was like artistic exploration. In the end and that workshop was like the catalyst for what was subsequently mutable.

I don' t errestus and I achieve we don' t spend incredible in the workshop, because doing a thousand things and as I tell you, it ' s an exploration of material processes and that creates the spark that resulted in mutable or even mutable is that, you know, that' s not just

closely related to a single material or a single line of design. Not clear when the brand becomes more formal, because there are certain lines, but we have always maintained as alternative objects to the brand that allows us to continue creating or investigating processes or materials. And I think that' s the richest thing or what I enjoy most about the design part. Okay, this is nice, and I mean, it' s a story, it' s born mutable, rather good, mutable, being sor quality, but very good.

Exactly yes, mutate this formally about two thousand fourteen more or less before that, because we did a thousand things, production, for art, for furniture, for projects of any kind. We can' t say no. So they said hey, because sometimes you know how to drive a plane, yeah, sure or let' s be exactly then we always went into everything.

And that' s something that I' ve always liked, because coming in and because even if you don' t know it, you know that if you do a good investigation into what you' re going to face, that and I see how it goes, otherwise we have to investigate, we have is, it' s not what I was saying either. So I do to identify the problem and work on it. I think there' s always good fruit. Okay, all right, I perfect And now that it feels like nothing else, this immutable, because it' s a new stage,

very interesting, very demanding. It' s very happy because there have been a number of challenges and alternate projects to just the brand of furniture that I ' ve never visualized doing it and I never mean it like it came very automatic after the pandemic and it was like a curious part that I think after the pandemic, many people realized the needs that they had of new spaces to work in their homes or in some more isolated places or where they were not

prepared, and like there came a streak of work towards those kind of places. Okay and and it was like very automatic curious. Oh, what a father. Yeah, hey, but well, you could have decided to make good remarkable now I' m going to do it, but you might as well have been, because I' m going to do something completely different.

But you remained very loyal to mutable. Yes, definitely, that is, I have always been very linked to the demutable design, to the aesthetics of mutable and in some way, it was something that, because I, at the moment I visualized mutable, at a time of friendly separation, I saw that, because I, what I wanted was to continue doing what we were doing, that experimentation on making the audio equipment or luminaires, or I don

' t know, until tornames and to continue experimenting on new materials. Yeah, it was something I said Wowa. This is what I like. I like to be here part of mutables. There is a workshop and for me it is very narrow to be in the workshop, to be working, to

be linked with the materials and processes that are being carried out. Of course you know, and that I think was like the essence, because the very essence that I' ve had since childhood of always being in the workshop, of always doing something and is, as for me, an important part of developing a piece of furniture or something, of an OK object. Yeah,

I think it' s elementary. I think for an industrial designer, as well as for an interesting architect to be in now, to be in the workshop, to be informed with contact with materials, as you well said, how it will be put together, etcetera. I think it' s elementary

for you. Yeah, I definitely think I mean, I think the best designers I could visualize are people who are very closely related to processes, whether it' s in Mexico in others in the world, that is, being linked to processes always makes you see or makes you reflect on paths that in the future you' re going to go through, I mean, because I don' t know. I think that you are in the workshop, you see a process, you confront it, you solve it so that it adapts

to the furniture or the object and that teaching is there. In the future you will use this resource again, but I feel it flows much faster and takes you to new horizons. Okay, I mean. That' s why, for me, it' s like a father to be in a workshop, to be with the materials, to be with all those of the day - to- day, manufacturing, designing or making a not clear prototype right now. I was just going to ask you about your design process, because

now there were two people. Now it' s a very radical one. Change has been harder, easier. How it has been for you to change from your design process. Well, there was mainly less time, because now you had to attend to several things at once. But basically not. There was precisely a change that was slower and a learning process that had to be

attended to. But part of the commissions that there were allowed me to explore material things and procedures that were not necessarily connected mutable, that is, and that resulted in everything that in this past year, in the twenty- three thousand, we have been preparing to think about a new line of furniture and

leave the classics of mutable. And that' s like the part, as very much I could say that I' ve benefited a lot from it or because we experimented a lot with custom objects or furniture, which was a catalyst for new ideas. OK it' s hard, so it' s like the contrast, but I' m glad that you' re already intruding and just like you found that catalyst, because what follows comes to exactly what follows. Yeah, yeah, in the end, this one, he' s

father. Because well, now, this, because I kind of missed this new stage of starting to develop new things, that much of what has been developed has been commissions and that have traveled well to Mexico and all of Mexico and some places you are, mainly the Angels and some little places. So I don' t know how the contacts went, but in the end it was achieved and like there was no commitment but to the client of that experiment, OK, that' s right, yes, she was very father.

So like that part, because it' s the one that we' re now going to be working with new processes in I mean, I was just looking for a new material to incorporate like the OK line and not like I

didn' t find exactly what it could be. But I found a material with which I feel very connected, with which we have worked a lot, with some little things of chemistry to make this patinas and all this, and that' s like the part that I like the most, because it' s like how I can give it a finish that I don' t know

conventional finish of going to buy it and apply it. OK. And this one, then, with all this that I tell you about commissions, because it was given that part very well because a little experient, a little totally experiential. Yeah, that' s good, what a father, I mean, you' re so lame. That' s good. Besides, then, right now, we have Caesar, that is, Caesar is Moood, my first laboratory, of my joy, exactly in experiment. Yeah, definitely that, that' s like what it took to light up, like a

new spark. It is not also to say mutable, it is still valid, yes, remarkable to follow people exactly for that, exactly fair. I mean, the idea was to find a new path, a new horizon of possible and independently of the classic furniture that we already have and that follow. People keep asking for it, so some new pieces, for example, a piece that I designed for unpublished in special edition that made me loved that Andy invited me a kiss Andy really, yes, exactly and it was a table

that I love and that was a table that has had a success. Well, Father, because it was displayed there and it was kind of a long time saved and yes exactly and suddenly, one day a person spoke to me. Hey, I saw a table ah yes, of course and here I have it and so I already had a procedure of that table to be able to produce this one and it started to work very well and from there a second table was born. For reasons I don' t know why it evolved into a version three, I don' t mean, it' s version

one. One was an attempt there in between that did not work and a third and that were as part of the experiments I was doing for projects. Wou exactly oy and how good you touch the topic of participating for example, in unpublished, because I have always seen mutable always, that is, since we opened and radio seven years ago, almost eight, I have always seen mutable in fairs, in exhibitions, that is, always. He' s

like a lot of people in this. How important it is for you to be present at these kinds of fairs, at these kinds of events and above all, how beneficial it is, because one thing to be present, but there must also be a benefit. Tell me, look, the truth is, yes. I think it' s very important to find at the fair

that suits you or. There are many formats, but if all to me have left something totally from expo habitat that were the first fair we went to, that has a format different to the format of no containers or unpublished or sonamaco. Even in the American Caravan we were yes, yes, yes. Each one has a different connection with the public and with the exhibits, but in the end, yes, I believe that supporting a brand is linked to

the exhibition at these fairs. Yes, I mean, it' s not just Instagram, because I find that the biggest enrichment I remember, it' s one of the fairs, because you know the public, you know the end audience, the user, the end of your furniture or your objects. Yes, to target exactly and it leaves you with a lesson about what you can improve, what you can, what you like, what we like, what it is and that I think is not easy to acquire in others,

in other ways. So I think that both being in stores or as being at fairs, in particular, in this case fairs, yes, it is very important. Each one is different from the other, and each one the public one looks for things different from other places, other fairs or other events. But in the end, if you manage to understand the audience of each fair, you succeed in making a successful fair. Well, yeah, I think the secret is to go a little bit, if you have to bet,

of course you bet to go and say good. I' m going to take, I don' t know a bookseller, I' m going to take these objects, or I' m going to and sometimes you win, sometimes you don' t win, I mean you win the one that was right what you brought or not. But in the end I leave you a teaching and in the next time you go with the objective very clear. Yes, you are polishing it not participating exactly and, on the other hand, you reinforce the brand, that is, the truth reinforces being your product.

You strengthen because people, because I don' t know, are like us when I don' t know. I like the art fair, because you go and see our new things, you see artists that you haven' t met and move a lot creatively and leave you many experiences. That' s part of what people who are going to say something to sound maco, who aren' t going to sound maco, thinking about buying a table or a bookseller. I know they' re going to see art and suddenly they

meet a boot where there are interesting things. And because some end up meditating on buying for a livery by saying something clear, or they take an arrangement or an object that you have. That' s, that' s very enriching. Well, is that you do consider it a good investment? Yeah, I think it' s a good investment. All right. I think it did work out for them. I don' t really know how it worked internally. It was a mutable, but it' s very enriching to

find you at every fair, every exhibition. I mean, he' s here It' s good he' s here. Nothing' s father, yes, he' s very father, really. Yeah, I miss it, because this year I didn' t get into anything good, but you were in the art week that I did, well, yeah, yeah, I always lost it I' m gonna scold, right now, who' s got the problem right, how barbaric that but yes, but well,

this one was father. The place was amazing, it was a spectacular house of Porfirio Diaz, cursed of that yes and it was closed and it was abandoned like eighty years, I be cursed of and as it opened, they put things with the dust, just as it was found. That' s not how I' m repenting and that happened to me because I got sick

things that will find it in my voice. He told me half- bitten, but it' s just that I got sick and I couldn' t help this one anymore I wasn' t there and it ended before, that is, two days before, but this one goes for other people' s reasons. This one didn' t have to end up seeing then how you

did in that hell of a participative. There was a very, very good reception b these people, because father, very father, the truth very there were good, good contacts, good, this movement and an invitation that we will soon tell them. Oh, Father, how he did before and who else was participating in that exhibition. Okay. In that exhibition was every study, which is a friend mastri was good to the soon study represents us to

good. He invited us both. He was seven studies, he was wandering gallery, he was home to Mimi and there was as multidisciplinary, there was fashion, there was art, there was object, there was furniture. It was very interesting. The truth that was and was very plural. There were foreign people, people from Mexico, people like everything else there were photographers, painters. Then he was very father, very, very interesting. The truth isn' t right. It' s a good thing you' re in.

By the way. This is your first turnout, as the head of mutable no yes, it was neither you nor her. Yes, it wasn ' t unpublished. Then I was invited the first the first year that soon a studio made a gallery, a papop galerin this in that invitation ok exactly and we presented some objects. The table is the same table that we now present, but it is that they asked us and we were going to present a teresa at this one, but we decided to save it to present it

later in the invitation that we have. There' s surprise, surprise, prey exactly. I like that then it was good. It was unpublished. It was unpublished. Containers to the short study, I believe again to the short study. There was a chair there that is that chair is already the product of all this experimentation, which is a chair inspired by the odyssey of man by reaching the moon that you do and it is with skated aluminum and

wood and is a chair for exterior. Wow, then that piece. Let ' s just say it' s the piece that' s catalyzing these years of work. I said look at nothing else or it' s sounding pretty good or and yes, I' m very happy with it. Or it ' s good. It gives me a lot, exactly and has liked very much and it is the piece, a sister piece that we are going to present, because we were invited and it leaves, it goes until new.

We' ll talk to them later. Oh, I' m gonna be the magi who tells us so, says it, but no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no I' m so glad you' re no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

experimenting. And besides, I like very much being very honest the Week of the art, because precisely they expose designers, architects, but in a way they expose in a more experimental way, just like to be a little linked to the experimental art that many times we see this week and it gives me great taste, like that this hextra exploration of each of the designers, both interior designers, designed, industrial, graphics, photographers, architects, that you

say good. I' m going to make a piece for art week and there it shows up as your most creative side. I' m sorry, yes, I think it' s true. You feel less committed to making it so formal in the sense that I have to go in a line than you' ve been working on. I think it allows you to occupy all this baggage that you bring from what you' ve experienced before and add something

new. Of course this talking right to me I think I' ve talked about it quite a few times with and it' s weapon that it' s just this one in unpublished, because it' s something that you have the possibility that it' s not there. It doesn' t have to be something necessarily married to what you' ve done before. If it doesn ' t allow you to explore a new object or a new furniture or new ways to reach the object, and that gives you that freedom. He explained no. That' s why it means no, no, no, no.

No. If he won' t let you, well, that' s how I feel. It allows you to go experiment and give and feel approved of what the public thinks. Of course, you have to try something new exactly, you don' t exactly accept it, and then that' s the interesting part of participating in these events, that you can take what you already have and experiment with a new piece of furniture or object and perceive

how people get it. Yeah, there' s exactly that. I am very enriched to make that clear, because you are visualizing, because sometimes you are stuck in your bubble and day to day and you do not allow yourself to visualize this part of the public' s acceptance of certain materials, that

is, certain techniques. Yeah, of course this new proposal that, maybe you have and it' s to see how the audience sees it, because, maybe he' s married to see a certain face of I don' t know mutabla and upside down to see if he' s going to see it like that, if he likes it, no, we already turned it into a collection. Later, no, but that' s like your proof. I feel like this, I' ve felt it with the exhibitions.

Yes, definitely exactly and, for example, I see incredible exercises Now, for example, the art weeks I saw incredible design exercises, which seemed to me to be very painful and I' m not so interested in knowing if they work as the object they pretend to be, but simply the day of having done it, of having proposed it, of curing your materials, that ' s what ultimately gives you an enrichment, that is, enriches you for future projects that you are going to carry out. Gro Yes, then,

to creativity. Exactly then, yes, I saw some amazing exercises that I thought wow that father, what a nice vibe they got to do. This is it, Father. Yes, because then I think that the other exhibitions that come throughout the year are enough to formally present a collection, your line you' re following, etcetera. No, but I like men better, that' s like I' m more excited about art week, because there ' s veneers like one more creative side of each one, exactly, exactly,

and just. That' s like the father part. And maybe the interesting thing is to see that, after what you saw there, maybe the next year, you see that that studio developed from that piece a clear, accurate collection, exactly. I don' t go to this little duck and then mutablin what you' re doing, now, what you' re doing, what you' re doing, what you' re sleeping with, now.

Okay, well, mutable. He' s been working a lot on projects with interior designers, architects and we' ve been working on it almost very hard. But now comes a new time to generate new pieces, to generate already to resume the furniture line. They' ll know the furniture that ' s going to keep other furniture that, maybe we' ll keep them. But we are definitely working on a line to new furniture or in parentheses.

Between these years we have learned by some commissions to be furniture traveling outside of Mexico, and that part I am very excited, because it took me a lot of work to understand, understand how to be able to do it, how to make objects or furniture that arrive without harm to their destination. So that' s what he' s been working on remarkable now, but curious. That' s two for free. I mean, this comes because many parts of the world are now turning to Mexico. What happens in Mexico,

yes, is accurate reality. And what' s happening in Mexico is amazing, because it' s an explosion of design, a set of different techniques, different aesthetics that are happening at the same time. There are many people who are entering to set up their workshops or their studies. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, that' s really weird. And that really thrills me that Mexico is in everyone' s eyes exactly before we begged for

it to happen and now it' s happening. It' s like exactly right and then surprising that you suddenly get an email you hear such and fruitful and you say wow which father I mean, it' s very interesting yes, and above all, that this dynamic is also happening in Mexico that before, when they were like exhibitions or something like that, we were hoping to see that because he brought this furniture from another side it mocks us, yes, but now it' s internal. It' s like this town,

it' s someone' s from Puebla. We did this with Tlaxcala stuff. No, I mean, we' re looking inside. And that' s so lame. He' s a pain in the ass. That'

s just the most, most beautiful part of the moment. It is that if Mexico is becoming a global spot, I feel that because of the nature of our industry in quotation marks, because I well, maybe there are people who don' t remember me, but I think that the furniture industry, as we know it in Mexico, are very few companies that have enormous production capacities and there are many that we can manufacture and we could call it good, we manufacture petit clear or we are butic not then this but it is

part of our reality, because we have a lot of labor, because carpentry in Mexico is a trade that is very popular. You know, we' ve got, well, to say something left- palapa, that is, it' s full of carpenters who have inherited the trades. Of course, of course, then I think that' s about Mexico having an incredible moment, because it allows to make objects of small production very specialized or very particular, and that to the people who come from Mexico, it seems incredible.

Why. Well, because, because they are no longer the big companies that hire a designer to make a chair in earnest exactly and not exactly, that is, of course, there are great designers and great brands making excellent furniture, but just what is happening in Mexico, which are very chas things made by hand. I feel like it' s the most attractive thing and then

it becomes collectible. Sure. Yes, yes, yes, that a whole world wants to have exactly, but that you know that it' s something special exactly and that you know that exactly because to see through a workshop as the average in Mexico, that is, most of them are not very big, because maybe they can' t make more than if they exhibited all their energies to manufacture. I don' t know, maybe five hundred chairs every once in a while a very large period, when five hundred chairs in an

Asian factory can be reproduced every week or more. I don' t know. Maybe I' m getting too short, but I think that level of

industrialization. That' s not why they' re no longer aesthetic. But, but I think they' re starting to stop having the interest for people looking for unique things and the world now, with all this social networking opening, realizes the unique things they can have, that they' re foreign to their locality and they say wow is that look, that Maravilla is awesome, it' s really weird because it has a unique flavor and that one of these huge companies can' t grant it. Sure, I totally agree.

But it' s a good thing they' re happening in our country, and it' s a good thing you' re part of it. Yeah, I mean, that' s what you do to me the most. Let' s say we' re telling pla that good gives me a lot of taste Hey, and who are you to see? Tell me your top Tree of your favorite industrial designers don' t have to be national. Let

' s see, there you go, Burleck. Of course, this feeling that it had to be me is that I really like your aesthetics definitely, that is, yes, 100% to see I know I' m going to look very very typical, but dicter rams. I like it very much because without synthesized its design so that it barely passes the time and they are still beautiful. Okay. That' s what I love. And well, he' s not a designer, but, well, yes, but no,

but he' s getting sick. Or that inspires me a lot their medo- clear ways you know they' re like I say, there are thousands, but let' s say they' re like every one of them I see an object. Even if I' ve seen it and seen it again, it gives me an emotion and that' s the part that I like design when I feel it in a temporary way, of course, yes, yes, you know that you can see it and see it again and

again and they cause that same emotion. And that' s something that I love about the neighbors that I just told you very well and national, national, because let' s say I love it. Well, I' m fascinated by tugs. What' s more, yes, hello, it' s rosemary, obviously, and the big malona coke is that it finds them. Thank you, yes, yes, Marta, the guns and the camanas. I like this one, for example, well, it' s not national, but it works in Mexico. It goes in hand bath well,

this is Rawe has certainly done a great job. It seems to me that he has opened up in his aesthetics and in his particular design. He has already walked a few paths that new designers can visualize that path so clear that he has managed to open. Not sure, yes, exactly, that is as much as Rawt as with eh this definitely are not of which Emiliano spoon. Definitely. I love that, because it is always very persevering and it is a clear type, because what else. Jusk is a great friend.

You know, for example, the adocs also that I see that because they experience and generate something new and I feel that they are a very brave office, that they design something new and they take it out, for example, no, but yes, basically they do. There are many others and I will not be offended by friends. Yeah, that' s exactly good. I' m so glad you' re following their work. But now to

close the program which is the first of the season. Let me tell you, this man, what you' d say to the generations now that they ' re about to step in, do their own thing, that is, have their own office or they' re starting to do what you' d say to them, well, definitely, the first thing I' d tell them is that they have to go out, take advantage of this art week. They have to look for these niches that there are, that I feel there could be more, but well, they' re the ones that there

are, they' re the ones that we count on. That is an important part of what we mentioned earlier. I also believe that the part of visualizing their brand on a path, in the character that they have, whether with experimentation or without experimentation, that if they approach processes, processes are taught, processes result in better reasonings for the approach of solutions, that you are

not, that is, long ago. We talked about architects, because they are linked with their work, with the works, because they give better results than just projecting. I mean, maybe. There are wonderful geniuses that only project, and yes, surely they exist, but in general, the fact that we designers approach the pres processes definitely makes us better reason for the solutions. All right, no more. We dream of a concept that cannot be

realized as we are visualizing it, because technically it cannot be. You can ' t structurally. That' s why the processes. That' s why getting closer, either with your carpenter or this blacksmith, allows you to better understand the structure of things well, very well, because thank you so much for being here with us. Again, my dear one, truly give in so much thanks. With you we open the two thousand twenty- four in this new season because we are three a year the first. So, thank

you so much for being here with us. Thanks to IT Karen, many thanks to IT, to all two people who will listen to us. I send them a hug and up the design that and well, we are here very happy to start the new radio season because, because, not only another designing ando, but also new programs that soon are going to premiere. Remember that you can listen to us through all the music streaming platforms that we are in Spotify, Apple, Music, on Google Podcast, in everything that ends

up in podcast music. There' s us, so there' s no excuse for them not to listen to us. And we are very grateful that this time, this season, we are recording in capo Labore, which is right in North Rome, in the street of St Louis Potosí one hundred and thirteen. So come and take a little turn because it has a high- design billionaire. Really, if you' re coming to take a turn, because now we' re here recording with them. And so, here we

will be in North Rome, in that season. Thanks to estr for being or with us. Yes, thank you here for the prayer and until the next one.