Hey. How about very good afternoon, I am Karen Ramirez and we are on a broadcast more than ten radio, the design in your ears and we are in the new season here in capo labor is located in San Luis, Potosí one hundred and thirteen and come to see the show room, which is
of high design. Here in the furniture, the truth comes to take a turn because it is amazing and because we are here transmitting for the new season and I am very happy because today is with me a landscaper that the truth is the first time that is here on radio and that is the first time that I talk to her, but we will meet her together. How are
you, Viviana? How nice to meet you. I' m a vivian voice and yes I' m the landscaper now by profession and now, I ' ll tell you a little bit about how we got here, well, I' m really glad you' re here with us the first time and it' s not the last time. Please, of course, perfect to be here. My thanks, no thanks to you for your time and I ' d like to start the talk just by asking you who Viviana is. Okay. Well, I could say I' m a person who likes to
be the multi- faceted balance. I' m a mom of three, married 26 years. I have my own landscape architecture firm that is serving about seventeen years informally and fourteen formable, and I like to, I mean, find new things. I' m very curious. I like to deal with many architects, find so much part of my personal life. I like to exercise, I like the whole art part, then I like I am very tourist star in the city, then I like to go out and find new spaces. And I' m from, like, I' d never get
into, like, a deal. From never getting into a mall, but rather being looking for a little, little, little, little show this one to kind of feel like there' s the essence. The rest is how big I like things of detail. In the professional part, I' ve been discovering a lot of things. I mean, actually, I' m a career student, I' ve been a communications graduate, and, I mean, I did. I started working about seventeen years old and did a
magazine of letters soups and crossword puzzles. Oh, good at the national level. And then, for the art of style, I got married very young at twenty- one and I was also a very young mother, but I went to live in the city of Tijuan and in the city of Tijuana I had to leave a little bit of the whole part of magazines and things I did in Mexico, and I started to discover one of the things not and one of the things that is discovered in Tijuana, which is a fantastic city.
Please, somebody' s got to throw a lot of joints. It ' s not very aesthetic, but the fact that people got there for work has come wonderful people for music. There are the best orchestra, pop operas all kinds of music. Right, in the art part it' s been an amazing thing, too. Amazing art photography also find and out there we find the wine and in one of being looking for what to do and putting
us into many food and wine clubs. I found a girl who told me oh, I' m an architect and I tell her, okay and what you do which father I lost I told her, oh look, I' m just like this. I' m gonna start doing my house garden. You' re doing it with me, perfect. She started doing it with me and she finished and I went to knock on her door and I told her you give me work and then this girl is a wonderful landscape architect named
Alejandra. Count ok already lived in Tijuana and now it is in the city of the Capes doing new things and it is very funny and from it, I really started to learn what it was ok Ok. Then I came to his office and he gave me he said well, because he went to the house so pergrated to measure and I had to go back to that house a million times because of course I didn' t know how to measure a single
door. No. Then I went back to look, to find and so on, and she really liked the design part and, that is, she started to put me in the whole part of putting together, the constructive part already of the garden ok then start to deal with the plants, sa, to see the spaces, that is, to deal also with the whole way, from finding the right vegetation in the nursery to getting to the part of
either, to the house, the development. I have always handled myself in this architectural part, the architectural part, that is, I have not yet worked on fixing the part of a river or doing a huge reforestation of a forest or something, but rather on the architectural part. Then to take there, see what the plan, which did work, that the work was no longer, as the plan says and re- adjusted the treatment of the soils,
to start doing this whole part. And in Tijuana, because the climate is also a little extreme, we have little water and then start to know all this part of and from there fascinated me. It was where I found my passion. The communication part is a little behind us. Ok I continued with her until I returned to Mexico City again because of my husband' s work issues and I felt very lost until really a lady told me come and
put me in an office and try again. And then I put the office with all the indoor floors and it was an amazing transformation in space and that ' s where I said. This is what I like. I have to get more involved in seeing who I am then with the depression that they had brought me back to the big city with him again finding schools with everything that my family was here. Actually, I did, I missed Tijuana terrible,
seriously terrib wow. So, looking for a little bit to see if I ' m not fine, no one else is right around me, that is, the family, really started to destroy. Then we decided that everyone had to find their balance again and where it was clear. I went to American University, a graduate in landscape architecture, where it was fantastic, because I
started doing small jobs and started growing a little bit more. So, in that I found a project that they gave me in Queretaro, in Curiquilla and when I arrived it tells me not good is that the most serious thing that we have here is a problem that the houses are at a level and in a slope and the water when they rain I want thalgo, it really rains and if in a data I said it goes auga that is my garden,
it will be that the houses of Anamn drown. Yes, of course, the drainage system that I had never studied, as it was a problem. So, in my diploma I came in with my drawing by hand and I said listen, I have this problem and throughout the whole class process that the others were really learning from zero aha. It was super interesting because as a
team and the teacher and everyone there got into my problem. We solved the drainage and the lighting, the problem of the soil, that is, the distribution, the size of the trees, that is, we were all distributing it. Then, of course, I learned a lot from the technical part I was missing. Of course, that' s where I cheered up and I said this is my thing I have to start and I started now. Yeah, like they say, I didn' t feel like it, well,
yeah, I did, but it was a building. Then my bar in the living room of my house and of course I don' t know anything about coach, I can' t draw on any of these. Then I felt like I had one arm less and said well, what do I do, because not really there yes, this yes. I began to invite for some projects a sketch artist who was also at the best in the race we started to do, as I did my drawing work. I always liked to study engraving and painting and so on, but the technological part isn'
t exactly my passion. Okay, so, with the help of other kids, we already started making these plans with some architects who were starting to come out. So I said well, let' s transmit my drawing of little rays and colors to a plane of car. Then I began to lose this
fear. Then be there. We were there and then I had a partner who was very good until she went to live on the other side of the world and I stayed again by myself and then we already set up an office and I kind of encouraged myself to do other projects, that is, from the small office, from the little house, to start doing more residential projects, development, real estate, restaurants and, that is, it' s the industrial ones, that is, to break those fears and I still felt
that I was lacking some information, that is, I felt like this part of a son. I' m not an architect, a landscaper by profession, I' m not an architect either, and I was afraid to tell the world that I was doing this, so I didn' t have a title. Then I went back to school again. I love that, I love that you always go back to school from the exact house, because,
I mean, insecurity is what kills us. Yes, totally, totally, yes, the insecurity of what kills us, what we have, okay, that' s going to be there forever and it' s a ghost that today, after seventeen years, chases me clearly, but I don' t have to be afraid of insecurity, but know what my fear is and say ok how you bind it. So, in this case I went to do a master' s degree at the University of Anahuac Ok So, I kind of said Ok, I don' t know if the degree gave me more.
In fact, I went back to school and I said, because this, all of this I already know and this also of course, that you learn new things always. But I realized that it was more my fear that I wouldn' t have a role that said it was you think it' s that I really didn' t know what I was doing. Yes, because you already had a lot of knowledge and, above all, practice. Practice is what I was doing. And then these parts where I bore him. I don' t know how to do this as I solve it I
go to someone who knows about drainage or I have to know everything. So at that point it was that we started to do a multidisciplinary office where, okay, I did take arboriculture courses, but I lived to the voice. I don' t go up to the tree to cut off the branch of it, that is, 15 meters from the ground. So I already have a team that are professional tree growers who are discharged from the edema before. I don' t know how much I can take and say ok I can
do the pruning of these trees that have this infection. Yes I can, but I have to do I have to know who and how to solve clear what my responsibilities are, what are the legal responsibilities I have, what are the precautions I have to do when it comes to removing a branch from a twenty- meter tree so that it won' t fall on a person who is passing. So, I mean, what I' ve been discovering, is that part where I don' t have, I mean, yeah,
being afraid. Okay, fear pushes me clearly to someone other than grow, but I mean, not to panic, because then panic is the one that immobilizes you. Yeah, so, if you ask me what I have to do is that would break a little bit with that the schemes of saying ok I' m insecure how I remove that insecurity and to keep going, then
so, one day I discharged this thinking. One day I started billing, one day I put an office and yes, the responsibilities are greater if you want to grow, of course and one day I said well, I never wanted to do was landscape and draw and so on. And now it turns out that I also have to know about administration, about accounting so that I understand the numbers, I mean, it' s a lot of things that I' ve been breaking up and I can tell you that I' ve
always done it and I' m a pre- carrying person. So I ' m not a person who is venturing into the big, but rather. That' s what I want, but I have to make my list of how to get there clear, yes, yes, yes, I understand you and today it' s very good, but I, I mean, you got ahead of yourself, but in the arena that' s not yes, of course it is. I think everyone should make it true that when we find a passion something you do like the truth. I think it' s
worth it, yes, of course, in any area. In any area, whatever it is, yes, yes, it doesn' t matter that way it' s family. I' m 26 years old from Madrid, demon. Not everyone' s been good. In fact, there have been some stages, not even some bad events, some bad long stages. Sure where you have to ask yourself, too. I want to be here, this is worth it. I want to go on and if I want to go on, how do I have to, of course, and then start
over. I mean, okay, we got a problem. Okay, he ' s got a problem, yeah, yeah, he' s got a problem, but I have a problem, too, because here I am next to this person. Okay, if he' s willing to fix it, I' m willing to do what I' m willing to do to improve this situation. Sure, then I think so. In all areas it is so, yes, having three children and everything always, there is always a
prayer problem. Wowro' s a pain in the ass because, unfortunately, hearing that someone is so old in marriage isn' t that usual anymore. You know then when you said twenty- two and I said wow, it ' s amazing what a father you can, it' s true, come also yes or no. It is not an adventure also clear, but also the hearing that you have already been seventeen, not fourteen, fourteen years of forming seventeen. There you can find out about this landscaping thing because it is
also amazing, because many new offices arrive here in a dirradio. But it ' s also very nice to hear. We already have a course of seventeen years. Wow, it' s amazing. There' s a lot to learn from you too, because thank you very much. But that is part of it is first it does the small things and then you arrive with the architect in this here, in my case, it arrived for the architects of Hey, because I do this and tonces be good And you who are not
aha and I look good. I can show you this that I already know and if you give me something that you' re working on, how I can work together with you. Of course not, because the part of landscape is a part that in reality I can tell you harmonize transforms the space, even if the architecture is spectacular, ok that is, I can tell you that a building, that is by itself or a city that has nothing green
that is, would really be completely depressive. Yeah, don' t go to the clan to see that you' re going to get depressed probably talking about it, but nowadays there are studies where, for example, that is, if you find a super poor place, where it' s cone that talking mind and there' s no vegetation, the violence in that space is
multiplied by forty percent wow. If you go to another place, suppose here, in Mexico City, in socho milco, in the areas more or less humble than there is and there is, if eight thousand is a delegation that really there is much greener compared to the same, that is, the same economic situation to another place in the city identical, but in o and milco there is green and in this other place there is nothing greener, that is
to say, basically forty percent violence really drops, that is, domestic violence in the streets, simply because the environment transo, of course and in this part of that is, of right now that we are suffering from this heat that you say I don' t know what to do anymore. Yeah, I mean, we should really wonder how many trees we have to plant to
lower the amount of heat that' s coming out of the ground. Of course because the heat hasn' t changed, the one coming from the sun, yes no. The problem is what we are irradiating from the ground of all that is this, from all these constructions and the shadow. What we need is to mitigate that heat through the vegetation so that we lower the temperature
and down to six seven degrees with a couple of trees. Of course, then, how the landscape, apart from giving an aesthetic view, transforms the lives of the people around it. Yes, if not, it' s not because it looks nice only, but because it has a goal to say, let' s put a balance here right. So what we' ve been doing is, for example, there in Santa Farida, you' re saying, in Santa Maria, in the Ribera, that we were talking about a project. We' ve done a couple of projects there, Santaniera.
How beautiful and one of them we feel very proud that won the Latin American landscape biennial. What a father. Then whatever it is. One of the reasons is that, that is, this building must have, if I remember correctly, four or five floors. Every floor has a garden. It doesn ' t matter if you' re on the ground floor or the fifth floor and it' s the roof garden. All windows are small apartments, between sixty and one hundred and twenty meters is the largest. All the windows see
a green area. So it doesn' t matter if it' s a tree and a pot, but the living situation of the people who inhabit that space is completely different from the building next door than when you open the neighbor ' s door and again you have another door and a long corridor and again Romanian that is, and your windows come to the building across the street that is. Today, we are working with other architects and developers. It' s this one, I mean, okay, it' s worth having all
the meters built that, that is, that the delegation gives you. Well the mayor' s office in this case forgive this one or let' s get these so that the quality of life of the people who are going to occupy this housing area will be transformed. So we' ve been with examples, with work, things to knock on the door and say come on, I mean, it' s okay, that' s going to sell a
lot more apart, that' s what you prefer. Yes, you have two hundred apartments, which will take you four years, of course sell them for an example. But if we remove ten departments and now we have one hundred and ninety departments and those spaces for those departments, we turn them into gardens or green areas that people can use, the selling time is reduced. So instead of selling two hundred in four years, he sells one hundred ninety in two. Of course, obviously, it works economically, too. Of
course, it' s a great plan. It' s a great plan because you don' t have to wait for all this back then transforms or is really the economy, the housing part, the way to live any space. And what we' re trying to do in the office is don' t open the door and say. Oh, yeah, there' s a green area. Oh, so grassy and so not. That' s no use on the axis. Maybe not what I want, but you' re
out there. From the pandemic we saw the importance and the need to generate green areas and shelf, yes, hey it is on your bench and it is in dice. These berg areas have become places to cook, places to work. Nowadays, people make home office still clear not, and this extension of the interior with the exterior has become completely important. So that, too, did help the architects see that we needed more green sarios. Totally not.
So, like that also gave us a plus. And also in the pandemic, that is, we went from the companies, let' s say benefited because yes, that is, by being locked up, you' re realizing that the little plant that you have in the corner also gives you clear look you lowers the stress, that is, better of oxygenation inside your house, that is, the landscape goes to so much and touches so many things that good beyond aesthetics. Yeah, exactly, I could talk gloomy, but,
well, over there. That' s why I' m a landscaper and port I stayed there and that' s why you' re going to come over more times to keep telling me what parents you hear. Yes, many people are left with the idea that for a landscaper, if no more comes to plant to go buy them is, that is not to think well what type of plant, what type of treatment, what kind of garden, that is, you need to just get to the mind of the problem that
you are going to attack, for example, noise, stability. I don ' t know about someone who' s suffering from the most distasteful, I don' t know anything, I mean. Many things work with vegetation and just as you said, in the pandemic we live it, that is, there are people who stayed closed and already lived like a caged lion because it no longer endured itself. And all because sometimes I didn' t have well - conditioned areas or I didn' t have little plants in it. No,
then all that changes with landscaping and gives me a lot. I liked that you recalculate it so much because it does sometimes go out there as it ' s not clear to them, and it' s for lay customers it ' s but why the landscaper. And then, I mean, he' s an expert, we need him. Yeah, and a lot of things, that' s what we' re trying to do, that' s the part of vegetation, that' s the part of botany, what we ' re trying to do is use the right plants in the right way.
Not clear, because today, that is, you can see in other countries that in a square meter plant three or four plants and we here in Mexico plant twelve. Why. Because one has an anxiety problem that since we have this part where the climate benefits us and the plants, many of them, are always green, that is, they are perennial throughout the year. So
seeing a hole, a space causes us, causes waxes. No. In fact, I have to tell you, that' s me the first times with the trees, which are deciduous, to say they lose the leaves. During the autumn winter season, yes, I said well, he died already. Why don' t you leave leaves, I mean yes, then, until I said to see I' ll give you until the 21st of March,
literally the idea of spring. If it doesn' t have leaves, I worry and if it doesn' t mean it' s in its normal state of and if we have the seasons, we have to observe more. Today, please observe the jacaramas are ending, but we are still seeing them. But please observe all the bugambilias as they are. They' re amazing
and amazing. One of the reasons why they are amazing is because of the lack of water ok ok or ran ok that does not benefit from this drought or that they benefit from it and what they produce in their systemic nature is a greater production of something else. Not in this case of bugambillas. The bougambilia. Actually, the flower of the playambilia is not the one that has the color aha or right now, that come outside and see all the color
you say child how beautiful are the flowers of the pea buga. Those are leaves inside those three leaflets that you see are the ones that have color. There are little flowers, little yellow ones. That' s the blooming. Or the little girl. Yeah, the little girl aha, but we don ' t care at the end of the story. That' s the bugambilla problem. What we want to see is the color it has. Yes and
right now they have so much color because of the lack of water. I didn' t know it was that in your house this one has a bougambilia and it' s but powerful, I said, but it hasn' t rained, that' s almost accurate. We' re kind of sacrificing the water a little bit. And I say well, now put the bare minimum in order for him not to die clear. Yes, yes, yes, and the minimum necessary for the lawyer not to die makes it as it is
right now. So this observation is magnificent. So I' m in this city that you come in eternal traffic, yeah, yeah, I' m seeing and there' s this tree, oh this one, why it' s getting better, this one that' s in the camel that nobody peels it for. If it has all this blooming and my friend' s house is, I mean, why? Well then these observational questions, you start to find them and you start to see these skins as water does him good. Most of you please take care of your indoor plants in your house.
One of the reasons that plants die inside your house is because you don' t have a drain, that is, the pot. It should never always be with water. It always has to drain. Some have to have a little plate to lift it has to have a hole that' s the reality. Okay,' cause the water stays in there and they start making a stew, and those are like the fungus in their toenail that' s six
months and it doesn' t go away. Okay, and there' s someone to be treating him, and he comes back from the insulating fungus this hard. So, that' s actually the indoor plants. Many die from the amount of water we put in them. Yeah, because layman needs a lot of water. Not there. If I already have an exact puddle, if you want a chart then there are other plants to live in the chaco,
then know you have to put. Not then, for example, I see the camels and the people of the mayors come and put the plants and it turns out that they always have to have a lot of maintenance because they are shrubs that grow eight meters and they want to have them always forty centimeters, of course, but because of aesthetics or because they liked the color or whatever, or they can always that because it comes small from the nursery they
put it in front and the plant in the back is only going to grow forty centimeters, of course, you have to cut it out of front by then knowing that you are going to put it in front or back or where
it goes. What is the function if I want to make a green barrier, if what I want is to integrate, what is the plant with the maintenance of the world, because it is grass the grass, of course, we have to try to edit, because it uses a lot of water, lots of fertilizers so that it is really show yes, green green green green? And green, right? And then we don' t like it is that it has a stain, because yes, the dog pissed and the urine is acidic. Sure, no yes, exactly. So, I mean,
you have to know about this. Then hiring a landscaper. I love doing today, I make small spaces and big spaces. I don' t care how much. The little ones fascinate me, because that' s where you have to get a lot of creativity, you have to solve a lot In the end you want to have, that is, it' s like in a small house you' re going to want to have the kitchen in the bathroom all in the way, even if it' s small enough and what
you have to do, that is, solve it well. Not then the small spaces, because you have to solve them well for the needs of both the place and the client, because you can tell me ay puts here on my balcony a palm tree, that is, yes I will tell you you know no no, because this palm is going to grow twenty meters. Oh, no, but I' m gonna put it in there, and that takes a lot of time. Time passes, of course truth, yes, yes, yes, then that time you can no longer remove the palm tree.
We just killed her. In other words, the knowledge of this vegetation is important for the design. Of course it gives you the sun, if it doesn' t give you the sun, that is, this part of the substrate. There' s no substratum with arsilla. And what we don ' t want to do today, I mean, okay, I want to put this plant on. It is a plant in the being removes from the
sea. Why, because then you have to put him change the whole substratum, that is, the whole earth, so that it is seen because the sea is removed, because the substratum has salt, of course, and then Sara is planted, you do not like the salt you will die, because what we want to do is that you live your garden do not suffer exactly And then all these people is that I no longer touch them because I kill them. That' s not true. Really, it' s not true.
They don' t kill them. In fact, leave it to your plants, that is, don' t ask them so much, just the right amount of water, a little fertilizer. They can be many natural fertilizers nowadays that we could have, that is, and do at home with very little ol things of plan, because we have to use some organic fertilizer. It also fucks with the animals of the excrement of that is, there are
so many things that can be done. Of course, listen, I wanted to touch on a theme right now that we were talking about landscaping plants, some more urban landscaping that, for example, is the huehuete that is there in the roundabout, formerly the glorita de la Palma. What do you think about it, because, I mean, there' s already two and I ' m still looking at the bonnet and he' s like there. I
' m doing my best. I think you see yes, it is a plant, it is a silver that has been given to Mexico City and, in fact, if you take a walk here in chapultecas, there are many, many, there are many and this and those that are most beautiful are those that are close to where the lake is, because they require tons of exact water, but all frosts of water, which I do not think in
the center of the reform we have the ton of water. Definitely, then it will require, in other words, a lot of external maintenance, it will cost you a lot of work to adapt to the place. The other is that it' s a slow- growing tree. So, yeah, yeah, it' s gonna grow. I think it' s already with the care they' re doing more, it' s going to grow, but maybe my grandchildren, great- grandchildren or someone there is already going to
see the truth as it should be. Not sure, it' s going to take a long time and, in other words, under the conditions it may be. What happens is that it is, it is not a natural place where it is, where it has the lake, but rather it will always have to be pouring water and the day we are missing as we are right now. I mean, it' s like gold, because obviously, you' re going to use it first to mean you' re not going to use the amount of water that' s required. Sure, that'
s why it' s the same for this part of the lawn. You really have to think right where if we want you not or it' s a lawn, a square meter to make it perfect and to make it green. Just as everyone dreams of it, it needs about seven liters of water per square metre a day. If you think about it, right now, we' re because you' re already singing very well. There are many other things that you can play with the gravel gardens, gardening, that is,
and natural materials like crushed wood. Yeah, but people, people often think that having nature in houses that look green, but it doesn' t. Nature is of a lot of colors, of colors of earth colors, of that is, it has of all then, but people, like they marry with that idea of having to look green. We have to dub for our no aha aha exact, since what we' re talking about I can ' t. I' m not going to be a landscaper because I didn ' t study for landscapes, I mean, I didn' t study landscape
architecture. Aha what do you think you have to break that that' s that creates barrier. What I have to do for myself to be able to do, ok I have to do a b ce so that if I can do it, that is, so much that I tell you eight years ago was that we do in the Latin American biennial landscape and I even had a hard time believing it, that is, to sit down and say that I am already here, that is, I did like so much yes, I learned so much yes, it is that sometimes we find it difficult to know
what these things are all about. Yeah, yeah, it happens and we have big dreams because focused come focused. Well, focused comes true. That ' s not true. Then I think to think you son the city. We' re gonna die because we don' t have water. No,
we' re not gonna die and we do have water. I mean, that' s what the water' s gonna start falling out of, and then we' re gonna know what to do with this water, because we ' re not gonna make them control again what we' re gonna do so that tomorrow or the next drought season isn' t gonna be like right now. Sure, then that' s what we need to see. I mean, it' s not like I' m super positive, but I do
think we have the tools to be able to make a corporal. It' s just that no, it' s that you' re positive, it ' s thinking about solutions and that' s very different to think about solutions and be positive. It' s very different, and I think you' re thinking about it. And that helps you a lot, because it' s acting. It' s not too late to say that he' ll be here. No. It' s just acting and it' s not coming. Okay, I think he' s going that way. Yeah,
totally. I think so. Hey, what would you have put in place of the water, what would I have put in, what would have made your solution, what would have been, because I would have put in. That is, for example, jacarandas need much less exact water. The thing is, I think they didn' t put it, because it' s not really a tree that' s native to Mexico City. The other was many years ago. Of course in Japanese it is stefato, but the jacaranas
have adapted very well to the city totally. The space of the roundabout is large so that its roots can grow. Yeah,' cause it' s got a lot of low root. The problem with the jacarandas on the benches is that the stool is small. Yeah, it leaves him or nothing a square meter to grow, and not only does the trunk grow so big. But that roundabout, because it did have the space for it to grow. Sure, then I could make a jacaranda. What part exactly this temporality gives
us and justly reform has many. Then it would be like this part of the center. No, I don' t. To me the idea of the palm tree, that is, it was romanticizing it and it had been
there for years. But palm trees also seem to me that there are many types and there are for all places, but to me the palm sounds more like to coast or desert, because totally, but the city with palm trees is like this part of wanting to be on the beach, but you' re not, so I think that' s that, if we' re in the city, we would have put some kind of tree with a growth like more ra ok yes, that could be the jacaramba and others liquidating them
maybe not put one alone. But by the liquidmar is a tree that is also very adapted and is quite urban. And if I had been able to see even instead of just one to make a little clearing of liquidambas that need much less care, this would have been a great solution. That sounds pretty logical to me. And then, instead of having one, you make a little sketch. Then there is a little forest which, because we gave in reformation, is a lung. It' s a lung, not a small
lung. It' s okay. Oh, they didn' t really need you on that team, they didn' t need homework. He doesn' t hear today. Tell me what your office is doing, right now, what projects it has, so look, now. I am very excited because we are working on a project that is so that it is not in Mexico City, but for the Capes, where we are just going to present it
to the owner of the land. But they are working great architects and I am also arrived, I have to say, I arrived like this with my rhodillitas after all this time and so half me Temblanc, son, I will enter it with all these who are my ansesis not that is Miguel de la Torre, Tatiana Bilbao, Alejandra Dacosta, Lucio Muniane, this Pardo, that is, all these architects, so that none were forgotten and they became an
apology. But all of them, who are great architects, who are making the proposal for this project and me how you and you have an idea and doctor because of course, but I was the only landscaper. They are all the part of architecture and it is a tenor where the garden will embrace, it will embrace the architecture of these great characters. So, yes, yes, it still gives me today, it gives me, children of the presentation.
It has to be perfect in the east. It has to be perfect, that is until I already sat down and when I could breathe and understand what they wanted to say, ok, I can cooperate and I can add value both to the terrain and give greater importance to its architecture. So, this is a project where I still tell you it' s there, but since we' re working there, we' ve been listening to ideas for
a couple of months and so on. I' m fascinated because I' m learning a lot or so from the landscape part as well as how to cooperate with these characters who are all really my ansesis and really are admirable. No yes, not only yours, because they themselves tell me six of mine
also clearly not anymore. And then and it' s okay father, because it' s a project where there' s going to be the whole part of this garden, but there' s going to be a part of the farm and there' s a part of the animals and there' s a part of how to embrace and keep the land as if we weren' t there, that is, as if you came to this nature, then we ' re working with the real land, the work of how they come now, yes, in rainy times, how in the capes it falls too much
or in hurricane times so that it doesn' t wash and work with native plants, do the whole part of the garden farm in an organic way,
restaurant and it' s a complex of this. How nice and it has so that all the people who are going to go pass in a hotel with been very interesting, because we are trying to maintain the vegetation that already exists and the vegetation that we are going to integrate, because obviously nothing else is the part of landscapes, but we are going to work with farmers with water engineers for that, we are not going to channel any water, but rather
how that water reuses it to these same orchards and how from the native vegetation we go, because sometimes native vegetation is not the most aesthetic thing that there
is then today. In fact, I think that if you put me, one of the challenges that you have to do today for the landscape is that the nurseries that are producing plant also focus on this native plant, because, well, I want to put the daisy that is given only in that space, because what I have to do is to collect seed and then plant the seed because there is no gande to buy. So the production of this native vegetation is not being simple. Okay, this part is a new part that
I think is going to be like working in another sector. But, that is, we' re seeing how to reuse it and why we want to
use active plant, because you' re going to adapt much faster. We don' t need to make any changes to the type of soil we have, because it' s very, very sandy, it has salts, it has to be eroded quickly, that is, then I need a plant that puts it there and I don' t have to give it just this thing that we were talking about the bowert that then I have TSI and to bring all the care from outside so that for the child to be well, but
rather with what it is able to live clearly the one that adapts to where is exactly suabitat. And yes, obviously, we are going to list irrigation not so that it is always nicer than normal, because if we have in these times of drought and the plant comes down. But if we reuse that same water in a correct way, how to keep the property in optimal conditions, clear decisions no, and that' s the project, let' s say big, that' s where we' re working, but we'
re working on small projects. Not then, that' s small houses where they say" son" What we want is to make a garden for my other children and that I tell you that I also like very much, because they are spaces of five by five where I have to put the poker, but the game, but the plant, but the place for the pet and how to do it without that tomorrow I left them this problem, a clear problem, rather because, for example, Ahorita, I came to a house
and said ay is that I need to fix it, because notice that a few years ago I planted some trees and clear already the trees in his little garden are huge, of course and you no longer say that the grass does not come out, because not because you planted some trees that are already bigger than your house. Sure, then what we' re going to do and how we' re going to fix it. No, then that part of
solving these things so you can live them more. I love you. No, and there' s parents, yes, what a father hears and what your design process is like. Well, your work process since just that project with the client came to you. The first talk until you give it to him, as it is, how you carry it out. Okay, there ' s two important parts here. One is when the architect arrives and tells
me look I' m already finishing my house. Why don' t you come if you make it or for all these new architects who are not doing that, I don' t win. The landscape process has to go from the architectural design process. Okay, okay. That' s a plus we ' ll have to have and something someone has to teach them. It' s not the end, it' s the beginning. Okay, why I mean it. For example, right now, I have a cli with some new clients who are a divinura. They' re making you their house.
There we have wanted and then they tell me no, well, yes, we want to do it from the beginning and, I mean, the first thing was I gave them a hug and a round of applause because they' re doing it right. I would have said that, too, yes, yes, no, I mean, you say okay why. Because mostly they want to make a roof garden on their roof. So, when you get
to roufcarden, you need a lot of things. If I' m going to make a green roof where I' m going to plant directly on the roof, I have to have both structural conditions as well as what it' s called as inven specific habilizer drainages. I mean, if you already give me the finished roof and you tell me, well, now plant planters here
and it turns out I' m only seven centimeters. You' re limiting a lot, because I' m no longer going to be able to do what you want me to do, so, if I do from the beginning, we can put in an irrigation system, a correct waterproofing system, that is, we can create it together. Not then that I think it' s something a plus and then my design process starts from the day you visualize what you want. Sure, not then in the developments, okay what we
want. We want to make a plus in this development for just this which, maybe not all the windows of all the departments, but at least the whole part in front of the department goes towards something, no matter if it ' s the balcony. So, if I' m gonna make my balcony hallway so you can get to your apartments. Of course, don' t make it 90 centimetres. So I need a thirty to put up a gardener that he gives you the visual on the inside, but they also give you
the visual on the other side of the apartment. I think, I mean, from your apartment, from the other side you already have a privacy, you already have a view, you already have, I mean, create these forms from the beginning. That would be ideal. Then that would be, I mean, this part ideal. When you get there and you tell me well, I' ve got my house. Okay, so we see a
lot of things there. The first thing would be the needs of the site, which go above the needs of the client, that is in the sense that if you want to put a palm tree in the center of your house, I will tell you that can not be clear, no, that is in that sense. That' s why they go in some need or why? Because in the house you go to North South and you want me to get you a desert garden, to say the least, and it turns out that space there doesn' t give you the sun anywhere, at any time.
So I' m going to tell you OK, that is, I have to first know the conditions of the site, the ecosystem in which Mexico City is clear, for example, I down here in Rome, I can get a papaya out here outside your office, they give it to you ok, but if I get to real forest that is or to veralda sones that you' re already up there. If I put a dad already, because it is very likely that your dad will already die, because it is very probable, that is, there are frosts and the dad and the dad no
longer can stand the nothing and the pforo. OK, I have this thermal condition that transforms me then that ecosystem. I need to know what would be first. Then I need to sit with the customers and see what you want. Then I want a garden of Sertico. I want this, I want a place to read. I want the dogs. I have three children,
I have or I don' t have children, but what meals. I don' t want to invite anyone, but I like to be outside, that is, all those needs of what you want what is the same when it comes to doing your house, that is, what are the spaces that you don' t use the most and you want a library or an office, or you only have so little space. But in the same space you want to have your bedroom, but you cook. But I mean, what
is it that the client wants? Okay, so I' m the client who has a little house and I mean, he also wants a room, a kitchen and a bathroom. We know that. He who has an outer part also wants it. Usually people keep seeing it that the garden sees it
from the inside out. Of course and for me it is important, that is, you, as an architect, put a lot of effort into the design of each of the things, both interior facades or street facades as well as facades or interiors, that of the garden, that of the so- called ones, and no one sees it clearly, but your model is divine. So what I like to do is tell them listen. I' m gonna make them a space on the other corner of fer but we' re never going out there, not because you have nothing to go. Sure.
If I put an area here then one you have to go to, because you' re already going to have a space there. If you go for a reason and you already have a motive or the fireplace or the paint area or the good area don' t need an area to sit down and, obviously on the side that you already are, then I start to see my house from another point of view. Of course the architect totally appreciates it. It is and the truth is, because you put the same effort into it.
You told us there this back there. No one' s gonna see him and you' re gonna see what you wanted. Don' t give it to you. All those details are important. Of course, what I want is for you to use it then if the hallway, but it' s hardly gonna happen anyone doesn' t matter. That is, you have, because at the time you arrive and bring a vegetation that accompanies you. You' re improving views, but you' re giving perspective to space, you' re discovering, then you want to go to more places. What
' s this about? I mean, for me architecture is getting excited when I' m there, of course wanting to get there and say, where I' m going to see the lights. Antiero wasn' t all this week that it was the eclipse. Yeah, I mean, everybody wanted to see the sky, and I sent them in, I said," Organ, please, look at the floor" Yeah, the moons, the moons across the vegetation, yeah, they looked amazing. Yeah, I mean, you might not have glasses, and you' re gonna be watching the eclipse
through the vegetation. Sure, yeah, yeah. All these things are completely exciting new. No one ever imagined there was going to be the eclipse on the floor. Of course, not ever, and that' s what the plant gives the places where it' s good that everybody wants a roff grve. I don' t love fashion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, then, and it turns out you never want to be on the train late because
you' re going to work. Yes, then what do I have to do to make a green space where you have a couple of trees that shade you and come down because they lower you over all the heat and give you more moisture, because even if you have a perbola or umbrella, the heat below is very different. Yes, you have to bring it down with vegetation. Sure, then, that process is going that way. So, since
you know the needs of place and then the needs of the client. So, okay, this yes, you can, this no, okay, you want a palm tree it' s okay look, but this palm you wanted grows 20 meters, but there are these others that grow up to two meters. Oh, okay, so I mean, no, and of course, a crazy ok tree, well, it' s just that what I want is one is a really stupid pig. They fascinate me, they fascinate me, but it turns out that the oak makes a log of a metre and
then makes a leaf of tree. What do you make of twenty- five and you have a twelve- year- old garden? Yeah, then no, I don' t definitely finish you anymore. He doesn' t say yes, well, but there' s not going to grow, yeah, sure, and time goes by like you said, time goes on in the vegetation. There, there is also the fantastic part of vegetation, unlike architecture. I' m sorry the day you deliver, the whole doctor is perfect,
there' s no scratches in the painting. It' s all right there, yes, and over time it' s deteriorating to the vegetation. It' s the other way around, I mean, the day I hand you over is nice and yes, it looks very nice and intact. It ' s almost the tract, but it' s a baby that needs to grow up. Sure, ga más lene. Then with the maturation you find these amazing things that you didn' t know what to do. No. Sure, then your tree, it' s growing and then you realize you
already have a whole family and the tree grew up with you. Of course not, or this part of the bogamilies that we saw that is, pella googga billet and I mean, it doesn' t stop surprising you no. Then nature has this part of eternal surprise. Yeah, that' s right, that' s right. And what is well standing is that we can
also make a calendar where I like monochrome gardens. Aha then or is that good, the garden is green, Yes, yes, it is green, but I have a flowery green, with a very dark green, with a grayish green, then this monochrome green that gives you the vegetation is, well, I don' t mean infinite. But if you want to, yes, of course I have textures, that is, I have smells, I have, that is, this part of the colors that give you certain even
give you temperaments. Not the same do a garden in purples and blues as make a garden in yellows and reds China entrances. If I tell you that, yellow and red you go tropical and the other one is a little more winter, of course not, but the wonderful thing about Mexico City is that I can do both. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he lends
himself, he lends himself to do both. No, then how from that, then we already define the spaces, make us a concept from what you told me, is to tell him or, this is what you believe, what you see, and this is what I also think it can go. So we fell in love with what you wanted together, I don' t know how to make a dress. No, then we make a dress of measure. OK because I don' t make gardens that are always coming and
saying oh this Viviana gardens. No, the idea is that you do see live to, but with you ok or that the garden says of you not of me, no, that is to say of me it has to say that it works, that it does not give you can, that you are happy, because that is what it has to say of no. But in the garden you have to talk about my clear client who' s going to use it, how space is going to be used, if it' s a public space, because you say it in a space or it' s
much more uniform. Nothing in the detail that the lady would like is that this neighbor wants this. Yeah, my pretty life, but the rest of the neighborhood has other exact needs. Not then go looking like those needs to get them out ahead of you. Sure already after that we get out and all the concepts and what I do like to do is when it comes to delivering a budget, dividing it by spaces. If I don' t feel like it' s like a list of super- eternals it' s not.
Then I say good in the part of the inner garden, then we divide it and there I put all the vegetation that goes in that inner garden so that, along with your concept and your plan, you can go reading and understand that I am giving you no, because if not, it is very difficult, of course and from there comes the constructive part where it is, and from there we say good. To build this, we need these
needs. There are some that sometimes we think there is or there is that my terrace is very small and then it will cost cheaper than a garden, because there yes, we are all totally wrong. The terraces are much more expensive than the gardens. Why, because I need on bases and this on base are they can be mud that are say more economical, but it can be wood fiber and that container alone is like a dining room. The dining room is very expensive, because each chair has a personality on its own.
So I can use a lot of pots and these pots, I think, yes, the most economical is mud, and that' s where we can go to the European designer pots and others that are worth five zero euros. Yeah, yeah, I mean. It depends on the budget. Not sure, one has to adjust to the budget. That' s a very important thing. The landscape can play with the budget without modifying the design to see why, because I can put you a tree. We' re just talking
about one ok You want to be a perfect olive tree. If you want an olive tree of these that have already been, I mean thick truncation good, because it will cost you twenty- five thousand pesos, that is to say, the pure tree more of the relocation, all the more, but the pure tree we will pass twenty- five thousand pesos. But if you see I say what I want is a flirt and I know it will grow
and I have the patience of such perfect. My olive tree can cost 150 pesos, because it' s just drinking them in the clear, yeah, yeah, yeah, I' m in the tepaso in the same place, I' m going to put on a vigo. Sure, the one you ' re gonna have to wait. That' s the time and the other no longer and then what I like to play, that is, ok. The most important thing about this courtyard is this OK olive tree. Let'
s spend the twenty- five zero on this album. But the vegetation that is around, which is a secondary vegetation, we don' t have to bring mature vegetation and so on. Here we can spend on 25 pesos plants, of course, and then we' re going to let them grow and give them their phases. So that part of playing with vegetation is amazing. Yes, he' s a father, because that' s true, if it' s in my exact budget. He can' t. You can ' t do the little one. No. I can' t that'
s gonna grow up later. No, I can' t. You can ' t. Yeah, no, of course, there are things in the budget that people then say or say to him, but why he' s so expensive. But they are this part of the substrates and of having well done the whole part of that, it is like the infrastructure also of a building that no one sees, that is, and the building has five floors
down so that the ten that go upwards do not fall. So that downside expense that you don' t see is as important in the landscape as it is in the so- called, knowing what' s in your substrate' s shape for it to have vegetation. Believe to speak plainly and unlike, yes, indeed, the part that is not so good is that you have your wall and it is very likely that your wall is still there after thousands,
six thousand. Totally not, but yes, I mean, my old age is a served ah yes and you have to take care of him and try more. Then the living being does have, even if he has few needs. Many times they do have that clear idea, so those needs are going to have to be taken care of, so we give you a maintenance manual. It' s a knowledge and I do like to deliver plant by plant where it comes from, what it is with the characteristics, what plant it is when it' s going to have blooming and so on, so
that you can do a checklist. Of course, things are happening the way you expect and the truth, day after, what remains is to enjoy those spaces and day after day, I invite them. You can go to the offices that are there in Monte Libro, not one hundred and twenty. Thank you very much. And the truth is that we have very nice offices and architecturally, they are very nice and they were very good, but architect who goes visitor that goes and other, what takes is the ujar de ay.
What a father the garden is. We create spaces to be outside, an auditorium so that everyone who is working in the offices can go to work, that is how and we have orchard, that is, okay, father I really invite them to take a turn when of course if I am going to take you up and soon I will go I promise you yes, because I
am already curious. My tickle came in. Of course when you like many thanks, listen and what are five architects or designers that you follow very much their work that you like look, I am bad for names, I am less for names. But that is here in Mexico is actually one because I would say yes. It' s one of the new professions he' s been taking. Auge ahorita, suremen are more, but relatively little by little.
When I started doing all this, fifteen years ago, I asked as well as how many countries, that is, how many really landscape architects are clear, that is, have come out of the specialty that is at UNAM.
Actually as a part we already have that UNAM and in merida there is a master' s degree and there is like these courses, but as a career as such, there are not so many, there are not so many places where they can study it. It' s not more like a subspecialty that you' re making me think we really should give it more importance and I think it should already be a career in many more universities. So there I kind of started to meet the Mexican architects and obviously the Mexican architect today
par excellence is Mario Shetnan. Of course it' s his most trace, he' s the master of the whole landscape. I think it' s an example to keep doing wonderful things. It' s still active, it gives a lot, that is, a lot of help to the new kids who are, they' re growing up. Not then, I think,
as well as Mexicans, that' s the truth. I do give him an acknowledgement Alejandra Cuentas, which is with the one with which I had the reference No Aha has a company to manage Garden which father this we will interview, of course, yes, yes, she are the corporals, but when when we see they are Nigel, it seems to me the technology already helps us to be correct. Right. I' ve got an American girl I
like very much named Andrea cocran Ok. This she makes as these also residential spaces that make very, very true, very nice places, very like minimalist, but use, using the vegetation correctly to her are my favorite. Then there' s this whole naturalistic current, which is like I can still say yes to work today, but not so much there isn' t 100 percent.
I mean, I' m not rooted in a single current, I mean, I like to take what I like as currents, not so I ' m in my person, not so I' m Catholic, but I like my love, that' s my way. Of course, to me spirituality comes through my practice of yoga, then or my breathing practices, not going to mass every Sunday or in vegetation for the part of fertilization, for
example, and pests. That' s who I am, too. I mean, I try to use everything organic until the plant doesn' t have a flu anymore, it has pneumonia and again I feel very sorry for it, but I am I have to use the chemical so that this plant doesn ' t die, because if I keep giving it homeopathy, it is very likely that it is no longer there. Yeah, no, so that' s a little bit my way of thinking. In general, then it is not today a hundred percent current, but of the naturalistic part of the current.
There is a great landscaper who is piet Udolf, who is Dutch. If I remember well or it' s interesting, I' m not going to hear it, and it' s like, they do some spectacular things. In fact, he' s working on big, big garden projects, for example, the whole Palace Buckingham but, that is, everything does it out of seed or with seedling, very small is he still drawing with down.
So I' m fascinated because since I' m scinant that father, like me, I' m down and I don' t see cam then I kind of cheer up, and there' s actually a lot of good in Australia. They also do some spectacular things, but they' re like more of an office. And there' s an office in China, which is that, if I wanted it, I see it' s a Chinese project that I' m sure I won' t be able to name.
But right now. If not right now, we look for it is that the Chinese do not have the name because apart they are called that very complicated, not jim jar or so. But offices in China are doing some fantastic things. I don' t doubt it and I' ll tell you what the difference is from the rest of the world. Why the Chinese have me
fascinated. One is because they are given, that is, economically the government gives them the money to be able to carry them out, which does not happen in other countries totally less Latin America, that is to say Latin America, but not even the gringos, that is to say they do not release them. And these Chinese have actually done some, that is, the universities, depending on where they are, they put the whole part of the work,
the rice, the tradition. They' re doing some things. It is a spectacular thought, but it is also not that no one can do them, that is, everyone can design them, but economically, because they are great things that we cannot. It doesn' t happen that easy. Okay, there' s one of the dispatches I like the most. Her name is Turrens. So, turns kpe and it' s Chinese. Okay, that' s the office. The architect. I won' t be able to be, not for pleasure. They' ll give it to you,
but with the office it' s fine, very interesting. They are already some, that is where I admire every thing that does what father, because they do these parks for the children where it no longer has to be the garden or the game, this one of iron, nor plastic, nor wins, but rather become these naturalistic gardens that with it, with the same elements of wood that came out with the puddles, with the levels of the ground, they make the slips, the stones go up and this part where
not that a space is not always the same space, that is, the kitchen does not always have to be the kitchen, that is, it can be the kitchen, but if it has a long table, it turns out
that it ends up being the TV room. But where everyone is there, where you are the wine, where you work, where you work, that is, these spaces that are multifaceted and these parks where you find that the children I am mom, I see that that is, that you give them the game already after the fifth time, because they already did everything, they
already got bored and left it exactly. So, on the one hand, that is, when you become this naturalistic garden, because it is a place that again stimulates all the senses, not clear, that is, you really stimulate the view, but the texture, but the smell, but even the taste, not that of any. There' s the mint Try it, that is, the sound. You can put three sticks that with the wind
do like this, then you listen. Or you' re in a little forest and when the wind passes, I say in the trees, I mean, I' m the one who likes to do it the most when I do Higkling, that they like very much what' s good, that is, it' s very good to stand up and listen to how nature is not and, in fact, it' s something that happens totally, yes,
it happens and it' s beautiful and he means. It is proven that, for example, in Africa, the acacias that were eating giraffes in the areas where they were then giraffes turned out that they became much higher because there they no longer arrived and ate them, that is, they no longer ate them, so I had to call them higher than ate all the leaves of the tree and we can see them as simple things as even on the roads. What happens and then the trees say that they will come every day
to cut these trees so that they pass the trailer. Not one day they cut it, or one day a trailer came to the branches and warned everyone else. Because it' s one thing that goes through roots and so on were the structural maps but the trees, from there they don' t pull any more branches down, never again eh pray it because they know that the trailer passes and peace and and and it' s going to happen home and it happens. So what they do is they' re already pulling branches over
to the other side. Sure, I mean, it' s the amazing bird, the really impossible nature. I invite you to observe everything. Come in the traffic and don' t get the madre of the front, turn to see the tree, that is, they always see it on the street, they always see how it is transformed, See how leaves came out. See what he dropped, see how the shadow is on the floor, that is, observe observe that is. I think one of my apprenticeships, not every day. Yeah, she' s amazing. Or she' s amazing
and they' re pretty right. We need to look at those details more because they' re so much, so much, and they make your life more fun. Sure, of course, instead of getting mad at everyone for the heat for a while, hey my look is amazing talk. We really have to do like a thousand more parts, because I' m learning a lot from you that really barbarous you' re everything in institution. No, I don' t know why you' re playing Chiquita with the great masters.
If you look the same, ah how cute. Thank you very much, I mean you' re also a master' s degree, that is there. Come on, let' s go That' s the joke. Yeah, three hundred and three hundred or you already are. Of course you are already. Thank you very much for being here and I would very much like to conclude this visit, because I do want you to come again. I do want to keep learning. I would like to conclude this discussion.
What would you say to the architects, to the landscapers, to the designers who are, just like you, doing what they want to do right now, just like you? What would you say to them? One is that he is not afraid that the starter will start as small as they have, nothing happens and that they will do what they are passionate about. No, I mean, break your fears that they always keep learning, don' t stop learning that. It' s in my office I' m just telling
the kids to see. You' d go with a doctor who means you know he' s got the experience, but he' s graduated ten years and hasn' t taken courses on everything new that' s coming out of
medicine? You run with that doctor or you' d go with a doctor who knows he has the experience, but apart from every day he' s learning from the new medicine that he doesn' t have to give you ten injections anymore and nothing else with one he' s going to cure you for this, I mean, you' d go with someone who' s always growing up or with someone you do know who knows, I mean, that
' s how far he got, but he doesn' t grow. Sure, then do not stop learning every day anything, that is, from observation to following it up to the best, to some architect who likes to get in, to read articles, to listen to all podcasts. Now yes, you must, that is me, when it comes to running in the car, instead of listening to the news, where I agree that one has to be aware. But there are things you can' t do more clearly than
your little part. I mean, speaking of the climate world, that is, I' m, I' m worried because the world is warming you up, so yes, but if I feel like crying about it, there ' s nothing to do, because what I can do is maybe make people aware that they care for their tree, that they can' t do it wrong and that they can learn these things. What' s it to me
about every problem? That also needs to be learned and what they are willing to benefit the world around them little and hence bigger and bigger ima grandes se base. Then you have to learn and if you are going to put an office, I also recommend that you do get into this part of understanding that it is a small business and these obligations are not always the most fun,
but you have to learn them in order to grow good. Of course, then and so first do the first house and then they go and touch the architect, they tell him that they can what is the value that they will add clear and comes. Thank you so much for being here with us. Please, don' t be the last time. We have to be like a thousand parts of this program, because all your knowledge is amazing. Really. Thank you so much for your time. Man. Thank you, thank
you very much to everyone who is hearing there. We' re landscaped theba out there. I give Karen all of you please, so if you want to find us what is offered perfect, then thank you very much, Viviana, and thank you very much for listening to us. Stay tuned for the other podcasts, because we are here in the first season since he supported here
in St Louis, Potosí one hundred and thirteen in the Rome Colony. Come and take a turn and remember that you can find us in all the music streams, there is no loss and the new programs are going to come out, so very attentive. Thank you Viviana, thank you Audience. Bye Bye.