Exploring the Disc Golf Show

Hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of the Disc Golf Pants Man. I am Bobby, Cool Daddy, Slick Breeze. And today is another disc golf

answer man interview. Now this is Nick and Justin from the Disc Golf Show. And I've known these guys for the longest time, way back when we first started our podcast back in 2014. And ever since I've been with Dynamic Discs, I've chatted with them on text, on messages and have talked to them about different things going on with disc golf, but I've never really actually sat in on a video call and talked to them and interviewed them. So I was like, you know what, I think it's about time.

So in this episode we get to know Nick and just a little bit more how they got their start, a little bit what they got going on right now and a little bit of future what's going on with their show, The Disc Golf Show. So let's get into it. All right, guys, So how are you doing today? I'm not. Oh, that's I. Wow, I. Just thought some questions. I'm not You hit us with the hard ones, right they? They only get more more hard. They get harder after this one.

So I guess we got to stay tuned. Jeez. It's been a it's been a good morning. I've got coffee. I'm good. I'm good, I'm good. Oh yeah, you guys are what, two hours behind? I'm 1250 right now. You guys are what, 1050? Yep, you got it. OK, so still kind of still kind of the mid morning gonna hit into the afternoon for you guys. That's awesome.

So well, like I said in the intro, I've been following you guys for quite some time, have known about you, we've chatted, we've messaged before and but I've never actually got to like sit and talk with you guys. So I thought this would be a great opportunity to do that. And just for some people that probably hadn't heard of you, tell me a little bit about the disc golf show history. Give me the elevator pitch of the disc Golf Show, how it started and where you got to

where you are now. Justin. Sure. Yeah, Nick actually approached me with the idea first. We were, we were doing a podcast. What was that? 2000 and 5:00-ish I think. It was a while ago. Yeah, and we're doing this podcast about news, and it had seven people on it, and it was a terrible mistake. But you know, your first shows usually are and, and Nick was like, you know, hey, there's this disc golf thing because he'd recently introduced me to disc golf and he's like, why

don't we do a podcast on it? It's fun, you enjoy it, right? And like, yeah, sure, why not? So and that, that's literally how it started. We're like, I like podcasting, I like disc golf. We put them together. That's that's basically it. There was no really thought other than that kind of put into it. So it was, it was like anything like when you introduce somebody to, to disc golf, they get hooked pretty quick. Justin got hooked and Justin has a background with music.

So he has equipment, he has podcasting equipment. And yeah, he, he was down to do it. And we started it back in 2013, right around the time Smashbox started theirs. And, you know, Terry's been involved with disc golf guy stuff on his own forever. But yeah, we were, it was, it was fun. It was initially we just, you know, there wasn't a lot out there. And we decided, you know, let's do it monthly back then. And it was a lot of news to

cover. And, you know, we had a blast doing it. We used to do it in person and then we torched down with different other ways to do it and until we got where we're at. A lot of failed experiments and complicated setups. We tried the whole live streaming thing. We did the whole Twitch thing. Like we're trying everything just to just to see, just to

try. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, back in those times, I think, yeah, because we started the disc golf fans, man, I think 2014, it was around that time there wasn't really a lot of disc golf podcasts. When you had set out to do this, what was kind of the the objective? Were you just going to talk disc golf or maybe talk at disc golf events or tournaments? What was kind of the game plan there?

Yes, all of that, all of that. I think it was the, IT was, you know, we were so into it, at least for me, like I'm more on like the technical side and I have a little artistic streak too. But it was really like, I think for me, what really I wanted to bring to the show was the stuff that I wanted to like know about personally, right? Like I, I was big into discs and the technology that went into discs and how they were made in every manufacturer.

I wanted all of them. I want to throw them all and see how they all flew and do that kind of stuff. So really for me, I think what I tried to focus on at least is, is the part of the show that I would bring is, is that aspect like here's some discs and here's some stuff about it. And I'm a beginner. Here's what I'm learning, here's some techniques that, you know, Nick has been tossing to me and and I'm getting better and he doesn't like it.

And this is how you can make your friends not like you too, because you're getting better and, you know, just kind of like those ideas, right? That's kind of what I would focus on for the show. But the news aspect really, I mean, I'll let Nick talk about that. He's always been in it like he's been in it because he's been playing it for, you know, forever because he's what, you're like, 50 something now, next something. I turn 47 next month. Let's calm down, OK?

I've got you about a few years, Nick. So we're good. We're all good you. Don't look. No, thank you. Yeah, I I mean, the first time I ever played was like 96, I think somewhere around there. 9596, a buddy introduced me to it and when we started the show, actually the one thing that we did decide the route we wanted to go was worldwide news. And because again, I always throw it back to Terry.

Terry was so involved in deep with the pros because he played so much in tournaments and stuff that we wanted to highlight anybody and everybody that was trying to build something in the community. And that's why we had a lot of small businesses as guests. I mean, we did get around to the point where we had a lot of pros on. We had Simon on a couple times, Eagle, Jamie Avery and Val Scott Stokely was on like we had a lot of pros on as well.

But we had a lot of industry people on, which was really cool to learn about that aspect of disc golf and it it was a passion project for us. It wasn't about, you know, anything financial or anything like that. We just love playing and we wanted to bring as much information to the masses as we could. And funny enough, and Justin will remember this, our first big support was from Europe. It was from.

Like Amsterdam. So I don't know if you know Dean Schaub. He is a guy who does, he used to call it Dean St. Amsterdam back in the day, but he's like in the community over in Amsterdam in Europe. And so he contacted us and he was one of our first like show sponsors. And he goes, hey, you've got a following. That's that's building over here

already. And that was kind of a shock to us because we just started out and within, I think it was like a couple months we started seeing again with Justin, he does all the analytics. So he would be like, oh, you know, we're, we're getting people from here and there and all that good stuff. And that was a, that was a kind of a shock to us as to the initial far reach that we had, which was cool. Wow, that's pretty cool. It's kind of like the power of the Internet, right?

You're like, you do the show as a hobby. You know, that's that's kind of how it started, how it still is. It's right. It's a hobby. It's yeah, like Nick said, it was never for like monetary because we we'd be poor. It'd be a terrible financial decision. I would I would be sleeping on the couch for many a nights if I had one. I might have to sell it, but no like it just the the power of reaching so many different places just by putting it out there is just it blows me away to this day.

Like looking at the analytics now, like, oh, look, there's there's a couple of people from Brazil that listen to the show. Like, why? I mean, that's awesome. But like, you know, you're just it blows me away sometimes. Like, this is really cool. Like. Yeah. I remember the beginning when I started doing, yeah, when I started doing stuff and I did a live, it was in 2009, I did a live stream of the Green Country Open. And it was, I was in my expedition and I was in the back part of it.

And I had a desktop computer that was plugged into the car while it was running. And it was plugged in by Ethernet to the house that was nearby. And I was live streaming just two holes. And I remember somebody in Australia said, well, they they said, Oh my God, I'm here in Australia and I'm watching live disc golf. This is amazing. And that's when I was like, this is what I want to do, you know, so and it is it is cool because you don't have to wait for

anybody to give you permission. You literally just have to create an account somewhere and start live streaming and anybody can TuneIn. So yeah, I, I totally get that, that feeling of man, I have global reach and I'm sitting here right in my living room. And at the time I was in Pawhuska, Oklahoma, streaming out to the world. So how, how do you guys feel? No, Well, let's, let's, let's keep with the journey just a little bit, just so people understand where you're coming from.

But I know that you at some point you guys took a break away from it and then you decided to come back. Tell me a little bit about that. It was. All my fault, I confess. Justin's defense, he puts a lot

on himself. He stretches himself thin and just because he's so willing to do things and and support everything like that, but he just had a lot on his plate and it was to a point where it was like a breaking point. And so he's. Astronomical amount yeah, astronomical. I like, you know, family and, and nuke child and, you know, just all this stuff. And it just came to a point where I'm like, dude, I, I can't, I can't, I can't keep up with it.

I, I have this problem. And it's a very simple word in the English language. It's no, I have a really hard time saying that word. If somebody comes to me, like, dude, you want to do this? And I'll be like, yeah, that's my instinct answer, like, yeah, let's do it. And then all of a sudden I'm like, Oh my gosh, I barely have enough time to breathe, which the the first break was that was, hey, look, I don't know if I can keep up with this anymore.

It's just not something, you know, that I, that I can really bring any amount of good stuff to, right? Just not in a good mental space because I'm stressed and I, I can't bring good content because I don't have enough time to research it, right? It's just one of those things, right? It's just too much. So I had to let something go. So that became the thing that I let go. And we recently I have stepped

back from the show as well. I'm kind of more behind the scenes now, but it doesn't mean I'm gone, just means I'm, I'm taking a little break, trying to catch a breath again because life is life is life, right? And it ends up and it ends up giving us, I don't know, different avenues in what we can do with the show because we talked about this like we do the show and it's a good hour, hour and a half usually.

And for commute purposes that's kind of long for consumability and this kind of and and this gives me the opportunity where we don't have to schedule together to make sure everything is lined up. I'll be able to do I'm trying to kick it to weeklies now and that way is it's more consistent and smaller you. Didn't want to do weekly forever, forever. He's like, just let's do weekly, let's do weekly. I'm like, dude, I will die.

I kind of want to do weekly. That's kind of one of the things that kind of the first break was because we tried to do weekly. We went from monthly to weekly. And I think that was what the the tipping point was. And yeah, I mean, now that we started back up, we started back the beginning of literally January 1st of 2024, we did every other week. And then like I said, we're trying to kick, I'm trying to

kick it to weekly now. And, you know, and, and I work half in office, half home, so that gives me the flexibility to do that. And it's just, there's a lot of shows out there now and a lot of them that do with live are on Tuesday. You've got tour life, you've got

Smashbox, they do live in the evenings and they're going 3 hours, you know, two to three hours on average probably. And so I think maybe something like I said, maybe this opens up a different Ave. for the show and there's other things that Justin, I know he's got pet projects for the show that he wants to work on as well outside of actually the podcast. I'm not done. I'm not done. You can't hold me down. I got I got stuff. Yeah, it's coming out. I swear.

And it's and again like. I think that's that's, that's one thing, though, that I think a lot of people might not realize is when you you talk about doing a disc golf show or a podcast really at all. And Bobby, I know you know this, there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes to get this thing done right. It's not just turn on the camera and go, we're going to talk about disc off today. I mean, you could, but it's going to show in your show,

right? There's so much research and stuff that has to go into it, like talking about like the discs or whatever. I've got a huge database of every single aspect you can think of with a disc that when I research new stuff that comes out that drops and I tell you about it. I'm giving you an informed opinion because I have all the data. I'm running all that before I talk about it, right? It's that type of stuff that's like, I don't think people

really realize. They're like, what's wrong with weekly? There's a lot wrong with weekly for me. Like, there's so much stuff you have to do to prepare to do a show, you know? Yeah. And that was like when we first started and even now like my my thing was like let at first it was like we don't have to create a show. The show will be created by people's questions when they

submit the questions. But then we started realizing as they submit questions, it's like it's better for us to kind of research a little bit if they have a pretty in depth question, excuse me, especially if it's about a certain disk or a certain mold, just like we want to have a, a more informed answer for you. So even when they submit the questions and that's your content, they're still taking

time. You still have to take time to do a little research and or grab the disks to be able to show the disks while we're talking about it. So I totally, I totally get that. You're right. Weekly people, people think it's just that hour or so that's all the work that's put into it that week that they that they're that, that hour that they watch it or listen, there's so much more behind the scenes that's going on. So I completely agree there.

And Nick, you had mentioned something that right now there's like a lot more. So yeah, like when I first started, I think I did a search and I think there was maybe 5, maybe 5 podcasts and a couple of them were more very, very local centered podcast. But now I think there's like 40, some of them have been out there for a couple years and then they're dormant. But I could swear there's like

40 different disc golf podcast. What is what has been your all's take on the evolution as far as it becoming now we all know that podcasting has become a bigger format for people to get their message out there. But to see disc golf kind of kind of give me kind of what's your feedback on that, watching it explode as far as a a medium that people get their message out? I think personally, disc golf

and, and, and a lot of things, I think disc golf really got a big push in in the front of a lot of people's faces when we had that, that vid thing that showed up. You know what I mean? Because people are looking for stuff to do and consume and, and what are you going to do? You're sitting at home, you're doom scrolling on, on the Youtubes and oh, there's a there's a thing. Oh, disc, maybe I should try

that out, right. And I think because of the availability, the ubiquity of information that you can get, I think it's spawned all these things kind of naturally, right? As time goes on and people have the ability and they know about certain things and enjoy different hobbies, they're going to do different things like create a podcast, right? So I think it's just kind of a natural evolution of things as as disc golf gets bigger, so too does all the other stuff that

goes around it, right? So I think it's just, I think we are really, really pushed forward pretty fast with with the lockdown, right. I think that really, really escalated things. Yeah. And and now like people feel like there's AI mean there is there's a plateau, if not a little, there's a lull in growth right now, but that's expected because of such of a large boom

during bid during COVID. But I think it's, I, I like it because it gets those local podcasts get you a lot of information from so many different areas and different points of view. But it also shows you who's super passionate about doing it and who like just what was saying, who thinks, oh, it's just doing this and just doing

that. But then once you actually start to commit time and you know, just building show notes for a week or two, I'm constantly, as bad as it may be for me, I'm constantly on social media and YouTube and all that stuff looking for information that I can share with people. And even it, even if it's a small, like I said, like the little businesses. I remember when disc golf pins started. I remember when, what is it Eric and and Tina started their whale sack business.

I remember like all those little companies that started up and seeing how big they are now and how they've changed over the years and the different things that they offer now. I, I personally enjoy just supporting other people. Anytime I can get information to help grow somebody else. That's what one of the main things that whenever I contacted, because I was constant constantly contacting, reaching out to different little businesses that would pop up.

I said, Hey, I if you want to send something great. That's not the purpose of this contact. The the purpose of me contacting you is trying to help get more exposure to you just in general, just so that there's still a

massive, to me, I feel like there's a massive gap and availability for product in disc golf. I mean clothing alone, yeah, you have manufacturer clothing, which is great, but there's a large gap for like general disc golf related apparel that has the ability to grow. And I start to see I'm starting to see more people who think that way. There's a couple people that I've recently reached out to that have that same mindset.

And even they, those people who are starting to grow their business, they're like, yeah, you should do it too because I mentioned that I go, yeah, you know, I've thought about doing this for a long time. I'd love to do clothing. I wanted to do clothing for a long time. But again, it's the back end of that.

You know, when you have family, when you have work, when you have your passion projects, like Justin said, all those things together, like you can stretch yourself out thin really quickly and it's tough to rein yourself in. And like Justin said, also saying no to certain things, or maybe not right now, that could definitely be another way to.

Address it. So you touched on something that we actually had a question come up on our most recent episode was that the disc golf apparel and how it feels like it's very lacking from anybody right out there. And, you know, as someone who is behind the scenes and, and, and works with that type of stuff with the manufacturer, it is a challenge because I, we know it need, we need more apparel, we

need more lifestyle stuff. But it, you know, it's, it's hard to justify when we have racks and racks of clothes that that isn't selling, that, you know, it would sell a little bit, but not quite as much to justify spending more money on more apparel. But what do you, what do you guys see on your end as far as do you see any reason why the apparel is lacking? I think so. I think there's and and I don't know to what extent it would be.

I'd, I'd have to be more behind the scenes with apparel to really give you a great answer in this regard. But I do see this kind of throughout disc golf in and of itself in that let's say you have a a polo right now. Now take disc golf and compare it to ball golf. OK, Because that's that's the biggest thing we have to compare to, right? And now how much is a polo going to cost you for golf if it's a golf polo? I mean, you're talking Travis Matthews, you're talking like 60

up towards. $100 right right now are you going to pay that for a disc golf polo? Heck no, there you go. And and there's, there's, there's like the the crux of the problem, I think, and, and with a lot of things in disc golfers, I think that sometimes it can kind of at least in terms of like product, it can be good get a little too big for itself. You know, like, Hey, I want to charge the $100 for a shirt. Nobody's going to pay that, right?

It's baby steps to get there. And, and I think finding that right place to set that price point is where maybe some of that problem starts to get solved, right as it maybe we start here and, and as the sport grows, it will it, it's continuing to grow. You know, we can push it up to that level. But I think sometimes that might be the whole back. And some of it is manufacturing is expensive, right? And things aren't getting cheaper. So how do you make profit off of

this? But also set it at a point where somebody's going to want to buy these things? And I think apparel has been set back by that because I've, I've seen the things right. I've seen like the dude clothing line and I've seen the cherry bomb clothing line and the price differences even just between those two examples. Where do you set it? But I think that's probably that's probably a lot of it, right? Is where, where does that come in?

Where does the profit come in versus the, you know, the want, the desire for somebody to buy that? Yeah. The problem, the problem is, is that you're right. There's a lot of risk in buying a large quantity of the apparel because if it's not selling, it's basically cash just sitting there that you can't invest into other things. And we you can't, you know, we're not a huge company where we can, we can afford to invest.

In other words, when we buy a run of shirts, it's going to be a smaller run, which means it's going to be more expensive. We can't afford to buy a few thousand shirts, right? The price down to make sure the margins are there to pay for the marking of it, to pay for the shipping of it. And you know the, you know, the packaging pay the employees to pull the orders. And so yeah, it's kind of a it's it's AI guess you call it a catch 22 where.

So what we're trying to tell a strategy worth looking into right now is having what we call always on apparel, which means it's more excuse me, it's it's not going to be as exciting, but it's going to have our brand on it. It's going to be nice colors. There might be some, you know, some designs to it, but we're going to it's going to be limited. You know, it might, there might be only 50 throughout the runs of the sizes, but we've got to to your point, we've got to prove the concept.

We've got to go. Oh well, we sold forty of those 45 of those great, let's order another 50 of another design. And until we kind of build up that desire for the apparel. So hopefully that strategy works. We'll have to wait and see. But so, yeah, I do remember seeing though, in the warehouse, there are some T-shirts that are like, man, this has been around for three or four years. It's like you can't, you literally can't discount it enough unless you're just giving it away.

And you can't always just give stuff away. So. So what's some other things that you've guys seen because you've guys been around for a while and oh, did you want to make a say something like? That just just really quickly on the apparel stuff, I think a big thing with that is having it not manufacture specific. So something like there's one of the companies I was talking about, I think was, oh, hand candy I think is what it is. They're they're coming back. There's another one called Howdy

Disc golf. There's a lot of little businesses that either I've reached out to or they've reached reached to us where it's not a specific brand because The thing is that, yes, if you're passionate about that

manufacturer and that brand, you want to support them. Totally get that. But if if you as a business you want to reach as many people as you can. So let's say Dynamic Discs creates a side brand called Double Down. Whatever it is, right, whatever you want to name it, it is a House of discs or Dynamic Discs brand. But those who don't necessarily throw solely Dynamic Discs, I can appreciate that as disc golf

apparel, general disc apparel. And I think that's one of those things where or I where it's going now with a lot of the athletes are having their own lines, which is good. I think that's great because people are attracted to just the specific person what whether or not they're on a specific manufacturing team. Like I love Simon, so I'll I'll

support him. I'll get I've I've had Dysmania stuff, I've had MVP stuff now like, you know, different little things like there's a there's a lot of area, they're just athlete wise that is a a possible Ave. for, for apparel and and equipment that supports not only the player but also the brand that they represent in a roundabout way. Yeah, but. Yeah, I hear you. It's it's definitely a challenge and but no, I agree with you. That would be I could see that where it's more of a lifestyle.

In other words, yeah, people just want you. People love to wear who they are right. And so to wear something that's disc golf to Nana without telling someone, Hey, I play disc golf. Do you play disc golf? They're showing it off by what they wear. And then, you know, I I don't know how many times I've seen been at a like Silver Dollar City, Silver Dollar City and I'll see Innova or disc craft about. Oh yeah, disc golfer.

Nice. You know, it's just cool to see that that there's somebody else that's into something that you're into. What's some other things that you guys have seen in disc golf that you've seen kind of evolve for better or for worse? Technology filming, there's

discs now, there's discs now you can get that'll tell you how you throw it. Like there's there's so much stuff that's like going into like with the innovation of everything. And I find that personally like super exciting, right? And like I can, I can foresee a day when we have like a machine that tosses a disc that gives us constant flight numbers and every manufacturer goes through the thing and we have same flight ratings on every like, you know, there's so much possibility there.

Ditto. There's so much possibility and, and, and the filming of everything, right with the the disc golf like network and and like seeing that go from like the handheld cameras, which we did back in the day, you know, like trucking around and trying to get multiple angles of being all cool to like actual professional sit down, you know, planned out networks that do these things that follow a tour. Like seeing that is just almost mind blowing for me. Like it's fantastic. Fantastic.

Yeah, the so the better. That's probably the biggest thing, yeah. The quality of content. It's I always have my on the show, I always say. I always have my constructive criticism of anything and everything just because I'm not looking there to berate old mannerisms. Yeah, old manner. I'm looking. I'm looking at it to try to provide some sort of improvement in any way possible because the better it gets, the better everyone you can appreciate it

more. It doesn't matter what it is, whether it's disc golf or or hiking or, you know, it doesn't matter as long as the quality gets better. Like there's a few things that I've recently posted that have gotten some black just because I don't think they're looking at it the same angle that I'm looking at it. But I don't take it if like serious or anything or offensive or anything like that because everybody has their own opinion.

I totally get that. One of the things was recently cameraman placement and I get let's. Talk about that. Let's get into it. So I understand and I agree. You want to get that shot, you want to get the best shot you can of that player of that throw everything right. Just in the last couple events, well, last few events, there's been situations where I see a

cameraman within 30 feet, sometimes 15 feet of the, of the athlete. And yes, the arguing point is, well, they, they throw well, They throw good enough or not good enough. They throw great and they have control, so much control. They're not, that's not even in their peripheral. And I was coming at it from, I'm not even talking about the peripheral of the athlete, I'm talking about the viewers experience.

I don't want to see a cameraman 30 feet from the player in front of them at a 10° angle because to me like just push out of the out of the way. We're trying to watch the player. I don't want to see another camera directly in their throw line, whether it's going to affect them or not. And I get like I said, I get the you want to get that shot. Yes, I know. And cameras can only cameras are expensive.

I know Justin's picked up a couple recent or not recent over the years that I just at that rate boggle my mind and I'm and they go 10s of thousands, you know, of dollars for for high quality cameras for live viewing purposes. I get that. To start. But it's even at that. Yeah, yeah, even at that. It's a double edged sword. Which way do you want to go? Do you want that shot so bad that you're going to make the viewer look at it and go, why is that person standing there?

Or does the viewer just go, I get it. I understand why they're there because they want that for marketing purposes down the road or for clips to post. And I understand that. But to me, it's just, it makes me, it makes me shiver when I see those situations pop up on live coverage. And I mean, there's there's a plethora of things that are off on Justin knows. But yeah, that. Was Oh, yeah, I, I think you've just proved, I think you've just proved how you got all the Gray

hairs. You know, I've got I've got a ton of them too. Your old mannerisms are sticking out. You know, personally, it's live, man. I get it. I see a camera. I see a camera. It doesn't bother me as long as they're not obstructing the player, OK? I, I, I kind of, I'm kind of with Nick, I see that point where it does take you kind of out of the moment, especially someone who does, you know, media, but it does kind of take you out.

Like, I mean, I know, I know we're not watching a movie, but you know, there's always those times where like, oh, I just saw the boom mic or, you know, or, or I saw something or, you know, and it's like it does kind of take you out of the moment when you see the behind the scenes stuff when you're not expecting it. I totally get that, But I, I think it's just a, the nature of the beast we're in right now because like we don't have the 1020 thousand $30,000 cameras

that can, you know, shoot high quality from far away. We don't have the, the courses that are designed around media. I know some of them try, but they're not going to 100% be able to do that where they literally, I mean, they're literally golf courses where there's wiring and cabling built into the course because it's designed that way from the get go. And it takes, you know, it takes money. So when I see people gripe about that, I, I, I am, I'm kind of like, you know, just calm down.

You know, a little bit. And just, and just enjoy where we're at right now. You know, I mean, you guys, I'm sure remember the days where, I mean, I was producing DVDs and people would have to wait for a week or two before they got any kind of coverage. And now you're literally watching it as it happened. So it is almost like I see it kind of as a it's, it's because we have so many new people into the sport and they're probably used to watching the golf.

The the other events that already are, are mature enough to have had all that they've gone through that or they have the technology or the money to do that. So, yeah, I'm kind of the kind of the person that's like, you know, just just calm down. And yes, as long as you're not in their line of sight, of course. I've had plenty of times where I'm just not paying attention and I'm literally right looking right at them with my camera, my hand going, Oh my God, what I do.

And I just deer in headlights. And so I just kind of stand still. So thankfully most of the pros that I've had to come up to and apologize are like, dude, I get it. It happens. So I've never had anybody met. I did have one person mad at me one time. I can't remember her name. And she was the girlfriend of Dave Feldberg. And we were we were standing, I don't remember what that were we were at was me Jeremy Ruscoe or Robert McCall.

And it was a place where there was a quite a, a few holes pretty close together as far as the baskets. And all of a sudden I hear someone say stand still. And then Jeremy looks at me and goes stay still, stay still. So she goes, can you move, please? And they're looked at me and I go stand still. And I'm like standing still. And I just freeze. And she puts and I can't, I think she missed it. I can't remember if she made it or missed it.

And then she said something like you couldn't even move or something like that. I was like, Oh my God. So I went to her later on, apologized, and she was like, it's OK, I get it. I understand. I was like, I didn't know how to move or stay still or whatever. And so anyway, yeah, I felt embarrassed, but. I've had somebody get mad at me. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. It happens. Now what do you guys do? What do you guys do in disc golf when you're not doing disc golf show?

Are you involved in disc golf otherwise than that?

Yeah, I've had. I was part of the sponsorship team for the USW DGC when it came to Northern California. I've been on different boards here in the local area. I've been on Folsom board, which is here in the Sacrament area, and I'm currently on the Roseville Disc Golf Club board because it's the newest course in the area That, and Justin knows I'm, I'm not the look at me. This is what I've done type thing.

But I, I was lucky enough to be a part of a design team for this new course that went in our area, Roseville, CA And that alone was so much fun to do that after, after and during I during the time that I was part of it. There we go. Did you lose me during that time? I learned that that's kind of what I want to do moving forward, like when I retire and stuff like that. So I mean, I've done a plethora of other things too, but but yeah, yeah, I'm pretty involved in the local scene.

OK, we lost you. I kinda. I caught a little bit of it. Are you still there, Nick? Yeah. Nope. There we no, we lost. Finally gave up. What he was saying is he's a part of a lot of the boards that are out here locally and he just designed one of our local courses, helped design one courses out here. So he's a member of that board as well. Fantastic course, except when I bogey, then it's it's the worst course I've ever played. Exactly. You know, it's all his fault anyways.

And I point that out every time we play. Anybody misses, I'm like, hey, that's this guy's fault partially. But yeah, he's super involved in like the local community out here and stuff and, and keeps on it. He's honestly, I don't know how he does it most of the time. He's up to date on everything that goes on in the local area in terms of disc golf. So he's super, super involved. I'm a member of that club of the, of the one that he helped design and I just play disc

golf. That's about it. That's. I keep a really. That's that's. I know. All right, we got you back. Can we hear you? Yeah. Can you? Yes, we can hear you. I don't. Know what's going on, so I don't. Know so he told so he told he he told me real quick you you were got into some course design work that you are loving.

Yeah. So you want to get more into that? Yeah, I, I would. That's something that after doing this project was something that I could see or wanting to do after retiring from my daily job. That's something that I would love to do. It was so much fun. It took way longer than normal because COVID happened and we started right before it so and everything kind of went on pause and then when we came back we finished.

It took us 4 plus years because of COVID, but it just went into the ground earlier this year middle of February. So it's it's doing well currently, so. All right, so from a course designers perspective, so that's something you want to get into. Tell me your top three courses and why. Oh geez. I'd say a bucket list. Top three would be I really enjoy what they've done at European Open. That course is I think for that it's more so for media purposes.

I think that it plays well for people who are able to watch live. I think MVP is one of my top just because it's, I grew up playing tighter wooded courses and that kind of brings me into that aspect of, of appreciating that type of a course, even though it's on a Christmas tree farm. And that could be something that

is, I don't know. I, I think we're just comfortable with that course being on a Christmas tree farm, even though it's, it's, I'd like to see it as solely a disc golf course, but that one and then a third one. Oh, geez. I mean, Rosal. No, I'm just kidding. Rosal Just probably trying to think of another one. I like. I like Waco. I like the course that they play Waco at. I think that happened open with the wind as an obstacle is awesome.

I, I think one thing I did learn in design is that initially having a, having a basket just plain out in the open, I was like, oh, it's kind of simple. It's just right there. But then after having people play it and some of the better players go, you know, not having something near the pin to address as a distance point to know what to throw.

I didn't even think about that. And and seeing some of those holes where the baskets are completely out in the open, you have wind is your biggest obstacle. I mean, you know, in in Emporia, the wind kicks up. So winds a big thing there, right. And yeah, you can use again with the course that I helped Co design, they're like we have wooded, but we have open holes. And I think the combination of that on any course is beneficial to anybody trying to improve their game.

Yeah, I it's tough. There's so many good courses out there. I the one thing I do want to say is that again, I'm always looking out 1020 years for the sport is these courses, though they are great on public property, it's going to have to ultimately go to private just because of the back end and the infrastructure for it. And like you said, line routing for power for cameras that needs to be brought into into the thought in design.

And even Justin will know this on even layoff design holes for me when you design a course having in mind what those playoff holes should be and how they should be formatted and routed. I didn't like when they had the playoff where they had the part the people all the way back to the T pad on a par 5 hole. No, just find a way to route a few holes to where you don't have to wait 5-10 minutes to get the players back to that hole to replay that hole in a playoff.

Like that's just a waste of time in my in in my point of view. But I again, I could go on. I could go on. That's OK. Episode #12 Yeah. Yeah, really of designing a new course, right. That's awesome. No, I love it. I think course design is definitely something that it's obviously very important because we need more places for people to play. And I'm of the opinion that people underestimate the power of a nine hole course in their

local community. True. You know, there's so many times where I'm like, I just want to go through, but I don't want to, I don't want anything hard. I don't want to lose my discs. And there's a nine hole course. It's like 15 minutes away that it gets, it gets me my fix, you know, and it's just nine holes in there. There's some simple holes or some ones that I get to open up and really get some distance. So yeah, I think 9 hole courses

are super important. Everybody wants that championship 18 hole course and have the big pros come along and that's all fine and dandy, but you know, just to have a nine hole course for the community, enjoy things perfect.

What do you think? What do you think's the biggest thing missing in course design for the courses that have been around for a while? Amenities. He didn't take my bait. Yeah, Like, yeah, it's, it's a struggle. And when working with the city, it can be a struggle because cities that don't already have courses in there and they're trying to get the first course in that area, they don't understand what disc golfers need because they've never dealt with it on the government level.

And a lot of those things they don't, they don't even think about they're, they're just thinking about usage of the property and they're not thinking about the necessities for the people who are going to use that property. Just garbage cans are just a simple thing that, that you need at every other hole at least, you know, And then the government also thinks about, OK, well, we're going to have to have somebody go out there and pick up the garbage.

I get that. But you've invested $3,000,000 into this property. Disc golf was only 30 to $50,000. Throw some garbage cans on the course. You know, there's a lot of little things. There's a lot of little things.

Yeah, we still got some growing up to do, that's for sure. Yeah. So what's up on the what's in the horizon for the Disc Off show? What can we look forward to? Lots of Nick's face. I'm sorry. Lots and lots of Nick's face. No, we I actually have a couple of things going on behind the scenes that now hopefully I'll have a little bit more time to get to. It'll be disc related. It'll be something that you haven't seen before. OK. And I'll leave you with that.

OK. No insurance you've seen before, but OK. In a way that hasn't been done yet to my knowledge. And if it is patent copyright, right, anyways, so we'll see some stuff like that too. And then like Nick said, it's going the show itself, it's going to to weekly, I think. And Nick, I'll let you talk more about it too, because you're more definitely more involved

with it now. But bringing back, I think kind of that piece of talking more to the local community and the entrepreneur and the other things that are involved in disc golf and bringing that into the show itself. There's a thing that's an aspect that we've kind of been missing as we started up the show again this time around. Really, I think the biggest struggle for us when starting up the show was how do we bring it back? How do we bring ourselves back into doing a podcast?

How do we get people to know who we are and how do we know what people want to hear and see out of a show, Right? We don't bring the professional aspect of it. Don't look at my professional this golf game. I'm not right. You don't go to me for professional advice, but you you go to me because I'm the average Joe, right And I think that's kind of what our show more brings is is that feeling in that aspect to it. Yeah, you get the news, yeah, you get some stuff in it, but

it's really like. What are the what do people like me think that that that aren't a pro, right? What does that look like? And I think finding that balance of bringing the news and, and, and you know what we want to share because it's our show, it's our hobby, right, versus what do people want to hear, I think is where the balance comes in. And I think a big, maybe a big part of that that we've been missing is, yeah, occasionally let's go talk to a pro. That's important, right?

People want to hear from them. And then to bring in that local community member to talk about the product and, and the thing that they're selling and how does that right relate to to disc golf and what do they bring. So I'll let Nick talk more about it, but I think just from my perspective, maybe that's something from our show that that we need to bring more into the future. So. Yeah, more, more personalities.

I think is is a big thing because I one thing I got to I got to give props to is foundation. So the foundation team does so much content and the different personalities that they bring to the table, just like even this, this new, what is it called, the Imposter series that they're starting up that's growing. Those type of things are what disc golf needs for content because it makes it fun, it makes it interesting. You get to learn about those people and their character and all that stuff.

I think that's one of the things like Justin was saying is having some of our local people maybe be more involved in like rounds played or even to feature products. They do that as well, like a disc dice or Legends of the Chains or Ripped Ripped Revenge, all that type of stuff. The fun games that can help your hit, help your disc golf game in general in a roundabout way because it makes you throw something that you're not used to throwing.

You might learn something about that disc that you didn't even realize you're good at. That's definitely one of the things that I think would be beneficial because there's not a lot of that out there outside of really foundation. And I don't know, like I said, making it more consumable, smaller for, for for viewers and listeners and stuff. But I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot of things that we want to do. There's a lot of things I want to do. But again, it comes down to time

and priorities. Right, I think one thing that that disc golf podcasts need you missed the opportunity here Nick and so have I is more disc golf answer me really yes. Agreed. Yeah, well, even though this is my job, I I still have to find time to do it because of the other aspects of my job. So yeah, I have fun doing this and I have fun talking to people like yourselves and learning what's going on out there. So well, guys, I appreciate you taking the time to jump on the show.

I want to respect your time and let you get back to you whatever you got going on. But it was it was great talking to you, getting to know you a little bit more about what you got going on. And I sure appreciate it. And I wish you the best of luck in the future, whatever you guys work on. Hey, you as well. It was great. It's fantastic talk to you.