Disc Golf Content Creation with Andrew Manganelli

Hey everybody, welcome to this episode of the Disc Golf Fans, man. I'm Bobby Cool Daddy, Slick Breeze. And on this episode I have with me Andrew Manganelli. I said that right? Correct. You said that. Great. Awesome. Nice. I was kind of practicing. I actually looked it up. How do you say this name? And so I kind of cheated. But anyway, so it's good to have

you on the show. So just to introduce people a little bit my, the context around why I have you on the show is when I first got back to Dynamic disks, I took a deep dive into social media and I was watching all kinds of different

social media content creators. She didn't want to get the vibe of what was going on as far as content creation and, and you had reached out and you had caught one of my live streams and said, Hey, I have noticed you're watching a lot of talking about disc golf content creation. I started a group or with that's all we talked about and I'm like, I'm in. Please let me in because I want to soak it up. I am deaf. I like to call myself a student of the game, so that's kind of

got how I got introduced. And then you told me you were like, yeah, I work in our YouTube channel called M KB HD and I was like, holy moly, yeah, let's be friends, let's talk. I want to learn. So if you don't know M KB HDI think it's around what are where you guys at? Oh, 20 million or? The main channels at 20 million, yeah. 20 million, of course, yeah.

And then you have the way Waveform podcast, which you started got going and that's kind of a laid back just kind of talking whatever's trending and topical about tech. For sure. It's more like conversation based. If you know a YouTube video is usually like 10 to 15 minutes. We're hitting like 2 hour episodes now. So it's like more unfiltered get to just talk about everything and not have to be precise. Nice. I love it so. So that's how I got introduced to Andrew.

Andrew, please let us know. Let us know a little bit about, I like to say, your disc golf story. Now, I know you were one of the first employees, if not the first employee to MKBHD. You knew Marquez through ultimate Frisbee. So kind of take us through the journey of all that and how you got into disc golf. I think that's, yeah, that's how I kind of started as I played probably like 10 years of ultimate with Marquez, not the whole time with Marquez, but we played a lot together.

I wound up working here while we were still playing together. Then I had my 4th ACL surgery I think it was. So I had a rough go of things when it came to injuries. And then I always joke that ultimate players retired to either rock climbing or disc golf. I did rock climbing 1st and then eventually started playing disc golf. A lot of my old ultimate friends played it and they were very good at it already.

So maybe I'm like 2 1/2 years in, but I joked before when we were in the like right before we started recording that my, my hobby is hobbies. When I get into a hobby, I go deep into it and I always know I'm really into that hobby when I start watching YouTube videos about it because I really think in everything I've ever been like really into, I think that one of the best ways to learn is is to watch as much as possible.

So whether it's a video game, whether it's was ultimate frisbee, whether it was rock climbing, I watched so much content because when it's the time that I'm at home and I can't be doing the thing, especially I have a 2 year old right now, I don't get as much time to go out and play. But boy do I watch and try and learn as much as I can when I'm not able to play. So, so now I'm into disc golf. I'm really into disc golf content.

I've reached out to a lot of different creators because I, I really, you know, selfishly, I want as much content as possible. So like if I can help people out, that means more content is being made for me. But but ultimately to grow a sport, I think YouTube is just, it's the number 2 search engine in the world other than Google

who owns it anyways. So if you can get things tracking on YouTube, the the chances of people finding something and maybe loving the sport like we all do, I think is one of the best ways that we could really grow everything. So what was kind of your first impression when you started taking a dive into disc golf and you're like, I want to consume content. Was it? Did you learn more toward the tournament stuff or more toward lifestyle type stuff? You know, that's a really good

question. My, my first. So when you, when you like to dive into things way too hard, there's always that reluctancy in the beginning. Like I, I, I played with some friends and I was like, the minute I buy a disc, it's over. And I kind of knew that point came when a couple J Millie shorts were showing up in my feed and I just kept seeing I was like, oh man, that was

really fun when I played. And then, you know, being a dumb early on disc golfer, Amazon couple discs, I didn't understand why it was so weird to buy an Amazon. And now I understand why it's so much better to buy from everywhere else. But once I bought those discs, then it was like, OK, let's find the channel. So J Millie to start, you find foundation immediately. I think everyone can agree with that. And then yes, some Jomez. They're obviously like one of

the bigger ones. I'm ultra competitive. I am when it came to ultimate, I mean, before I even played on the team, I was like, I want to be good at this. I'm going to start trying to get as good at this as possible. And as much as it's fun to me, competitiveness is fun as well. So I wanted to get good really fast. So yeah, watching pros play, even though that's probably not the best way to learn when you're first starting because pros look like they're doing nothing and throwing 500 feet.

So yeah, a mix of both. But I find myself now way, way, way more watching the the content creator, disc golfers, the but dances, the broad Ricks, you know, all of them more so than pro coverage. I'll watch some pro coverage highlights just to see what's going on, but. Yeah, that's what I'm finding is that it seems like like the pro coverage has its particular audience, like people want to

watch the top pros play. And yeah, when we first started the disc golf Fancy man, that was one of the things we wanted to address was, yes, it's fun watching those guys throw super far, but the equipment or the discs they're using is it's not something that you're going to enjoy, right? You're not going to get the same distance out of it. So we wanted to make sure that people knew we were, we were there to answer the questions about that.

And then when I took a deep, I came back, you know, it was, I took like a, well, I was doing class disc, but I took like a four year break from Dynamic discs. When I came back, I noticed there was a lot more on the on the disc golf creator rather than the pro players making content. And so why do you think that is? Why do you think it? It isn't? In my mind, it's like a natural, natural evolution of disc golf

in the content creator world. In other words, it was happening in other niches and other spaces, but it feels like disc golf caught was just catching up. Is that true? True to think that way? It's interesting. So one thing, you know, being in the disc golf scene now, I see a lot of people complain about, you know, where disc golf is. We're not that big of a sport. We're too niche. But coming from the ultimate world, disc golf is like light years ahead of what we all did

in ultimate. I mean, there's a pro league and ultimate, but it's really low key. There's not a lot of sponsors because in ultimate you have one disc and a whole team. Two teams play with it at the same time. The amount of money there can be inside of disc golf for each player having 15 to 20 discs. And if you're like me, you watch way too much content and just keep buying ones to the point where I can't even throw all of them anymore, but I still enjoy doing it.

There's definitely more money in disc golf, even if we, you know, might compare ourselves to regular golf now. And it feels like nothing. But like, if you really look at in the grand scheme of things, I think disc golf is in a a cool

spot. But I do think a big reason, and this is a huge gripe I have that, you know, I don't know the insides with of why it happens, but it's really hard to watch pro coverage other than, you know, go throw OTB skins, which is like pros playing, but not the coverage or maybe a live first round, the DGN subscription and is going to stall so many people from getting into the pro scene. So they're really the content that's accessible is the content

that is from the creators. And that's what I can, you know, I tell this to everyone that I talked to in the creator world is the subscription button is cool and all, but it just doesn't mean what it used to the recommendations and your home page is what matters right now. And like the people that are showing up on there are the J Millies are the bonanzas are the foundations. And that's what's, you know, when you're showing up there, that's who's getting the eyes.

And that's not what the pro Tour is doing right now. You know, there's so much money. Also, I ramble a lot, so please cut me off whenever. But like, there's so much money that probably has to be dealt with DGN and all that stuff and being able to play it for free. But I really think somehow they need to figure out how to get pretty much all of the coverage live on YouTube because it's just how you're going to get more eyes to it and it's how it's going to grow eventually.

Yeah, 'cause back in the day, like I remember early, maybe 6-7 years ago, I can't remember exactly, but like we pushed really hard, Dynamic Discs worked with a disc approach or to get on CBS Sports, right? And we thought that was going to make, you know, that was a lot of people think it was that that was going to help right get on CBS Sports and that was going to give us more exposure was that I'm, I believe it did.

But there was still a part of me that the content creator guy in me was like, man, all that money we paid to do that. Do you know how much content I could have created? You know what I could have done? You know how many different content creators I could have worked with and, and, you know, partner with them to create content that I feel like now I can't. You can't even find the CBS

Sports coverage, I don't think. Maybe if you did a real deep dive on Google, you might be able to find it, but you can still find some of our, I mean, like, even when I look at our YouTube analytics, there's still people watching tutorials that we put out sick 8910 years ago. So it's still out there. So I, I, I agree with you as far as where the media needs to be. And that's, that's definitely on the Youtubes and the Instagrams and all those places for sure. Excuse me?

So actually I wanted to learn also, you say you ramble. I tend to jump around all over the place when it comes to questions. This will. Be a chaotic podcast and I hopefully it's an awesome 1. So I was looking at your your PDJ page and it looks like you don't just play casually, you actually like to do tournaments. Is that just so that to help to help your game or is that is that just 'cause you like the competition side?

I love the competition side. I, yeah, I, I can't do it as much because, you know, I really feel like I started this started this love essentially right as my daughter was born. It, it did let me at first play a ton because I have a nine hole course like 5 minutes down the road. So in that beginning when she's taking 2 hour naps every couple hours, it was just like, cool, she's down. I'm going to skip taking a nap and make up sleep.

I'm going to go play nine holes and come back before she wakes up. So I got to play a bunch of that. But no, I I would play it if I had the chance and somehow could pause time and spend as much time with my family and work and also go play a tournament every weekend. I would do it 1000%. I just like that nature. I really miss like competitive ultimate games. I like having something to challenge me. I crack under pressure really hard. So I like trying to like do

better at that. But yeah, so I like to play, I play more like we have a local tags match that's on a Tuesday. It's way easier to be like, hey, I'm going to go play tags for one night rather than use an entire weekend's day or, or hold if it's three rounds like that. So I want to play, I want to see rating go up. We all like to see that, but I just don't get to do it as much as I I would like.

So is that something that you just, I mean, you, you, I would imagine you don't have an aspiration to be like a touring, touring pro or anything like that, just, you know, play occasionally. So no, no, no. Yeah. And then I noticed you, you also had a YouTube channel. Now it's been about a year since you made some videos, but you did some kind of like just round videos. Is that something you're going

to try to do more or? Probably not actually, I've a sun coming in April, so it's gone even less time. Yeah, I I'm excited for #2 but I know it's probably exponentially more work. But I think kind of the way I started because, you know, I didn't have any disc golf connections in this. And at this point I feel like I've somehow managed to get connected with almost every disc golf content creator. And it all started where I found the Another Round channel. And Joseph is so interesting.

He's so good. He's so much fun watching his stuff. And you could tell Instagram was their main thing, but YouTube was kind of a side a side thought. And I like having something on on the TV in the background, whether I'm watching it really closely or watching it kind of just as as background fodder. And I really liked that Channel, but didn't seem like they knew the YouTube space that much. So they were the first people I kind of reached out to and was like, this is going to sound

weird. I work in the YouTube space. I think your content is fantastic. And like there's a couple things I tweak. I think most of the larger creators in the disc golf space, the issue isn't their production quality or anything. It's their packaging. Like packaging is such a weird thing to do on YouTube, but it's the most important thing because you can make the coolest video ever and if no one sees it, it

kind of sucks. So that's who I reached out to and trying to remember where this question started at. But that's kind of how I like started getting in contact with people and being like, oh, they found that super useful. They sent me a few discs and I'm just getting into the sport. So like I, this is cool for me. I get to try some new discs, I get to help some people out, I get more contact. This really feels like it's all coming up for me at the end.

And that's how I started like reaching out to different people and Oh yes, so those videos on my channel were OK. I know packaging really well, but I probably should make a couple of my own videos, 1, because I like to see how I throw 2. I want to kind of understand the idea of like, I don't want to go tell somebody. I think this would be better for your videos if I've never done

it before. So I was like, how can I just, you know, maybe quickly record a couple rounds, get a feel for what it's like and to everyone out there filming y'all, that for me, maybe because I'm not very good. It's so embarrassing carrying a tripod around on this golf course and being like, is someone I know going to be here and see me doing this? So kudos to all of you out there doing it. It's I I envy you.

I feel you on that. I I go out to a field, there's a particular one that I have, I have two places that have some nice big field. So if I'm doing some, you know, particular videos on just throwing an open field, but there's always like walkers out there or there's soccer practice going on nearby. And I'm sure they're probably looking at me going, what is this old fat guy doing? How you're doing? Why does that camera drive? Yeah, yeah. Why does he need to be filming?

And so if he can't be some big athlete or something like that, but I've, I have learned to just shut all that out and just be like, just go do it. They're going to think what they want to think of big deals. OK, so let's go back a little bit. Oh, your, your game. OK, so you, you do tournaments every now and then, which is great, which I think helps you again, helps you with your competent. We always say put something on the line every now and then, right to help you get get a

little bit better. No, that wasn't what I was going. Sorry, Andrew, that. Don't be sorry, we're all good. That's why I don't like doing live. Yeah, dudes like, I mean that that's such a good point. We Marques talks about all the time. Like even just talking about this right now, me saying I all the people who can go out and have a a camera in public like I've been doing, you know, I've been working here for 9 years. I've been on a lot of different

videos. I'm in videos where we are in our own enclosed space and everyone here expects us to make videos like the minute we go outside and have to record something, I'm just kind of head down like, is everyone watching us right now? So, and in the live sense, there are people, and I think this is really important for people who are creating content is like, you kind of got to find what you're good at because you, you need to feel natural on things.

You need to be doing something you're really enjoying. Marquez always talks about like, I can do this. I don't get how live streamers do what they do. He like we've done a couple live things for like the podcast or whatnot. You really got to turn it on and you got to be focused. But in Marquez's world, it's way easier to be like, hope I messed that up.

I want to nail it perfectly. So, you know, there's different levels of talent that people have for things and you kind of got to find the one that works the best for you. So live, yes, live is really hard. I everyone's super impressive that can pull it off. Yeah, we used to do it back in the day and and I, the only thing I liked about it is when you were done, you were done, right? You didn't have to do any more editing other than maybe a couple clips are here and there.

Of course, that was back when I don't even think shorts or reels were even a thing quite yet. So no, what I was going, OK, what I was going to get back into was more of the, the tech side, the technical, because that's a question that one of our listeners asked was, and, and I noticed through my years of creating content was that seems to be the first question. And I'm the same way. Like I'm watching a video. I'm loving what I'm seeing, looks really crisp and nice.

And I'm like, what camera are they using? What setup? What's the best tripod? And I did go through a time of like analysis paralysis. Like if I had to, if I only had that camera, if I only had that particular tripod, my content would be, would be that much better. So, and they always say that the, the advice is the, the best camera is the one that you have

on you. But kind of walk us through someone who is in tech all the time has worked with some of the I'm, you know, I mean, one of the questions I want to ask you, do you, when you made your video content, did you use a, a $50,000 red camera to create your content? And obviously. Yeah. Right. So I mean, kind of break that down for us as far as like what should people really think about when they think about equipment and creating disc golf content?

Yeah, I think it's a couple different things. I one thing that's really different from creating disc golf content versus what we do here is we're in a studio with lighting and big tripods. You know, we can use a red camera because it can sit on a pair of sticks and not move and it's all manual focus. There's no autofocus. So you do have to start thinking of a few things when you're, you know, disc golf bags are already heavy.

I mean, some people use carts. I actually think the people I see using carts with little mounts on them, that seems like the ideal setup to not. But carrying a tripod and your bag and a camera and microphones is it's a lot out on the course. So you need to kind of find what fits for you that's not affecting your game because that's the thing, that's the content, you know, overall. And yeah, you have to you have to kind of think about what, what are your priorities?

Do you do you really like the just the content you're making and you don't care maybe quite as much about quality and stuff? And if you're not that interested in like I want to be the absolute sharpest image possible, you're probably not going to take the time to figure out a, a Sony A series camera or something with an interchangeable lens and stuff like that. So don't stress about it. Use your phone, use the DJI Osmo. People love that right now. We love it.

We we also have the studio channel. We just went through arguably one of the craziest videos we've ever made, which is we filmed. Pretty much everything we did for a whole year and turned it into like an hour and a half long video. And that took so much time of deciding which cameras were the best to use for that. Because sometimes it's someone filming, sometimes it's us filming, sometimes we're on an airplane, sometimes we're at an

event. You have to kind of be like, what's the best quality that I'm really willing to put in the effort for, but that also isn't going to take away from the thing that's happening right now. So in disc golf, that's weird. I think there's like kind of steps to it. Like I said, a phone, a GoPro, a Osmo are kind of one level of like solid quality, minimal footprint. And maybe you're not, you don't care about dialing in log footage or, or, you know, super,

super high quality. Then you can kind of step into like I think Jay Millie uses like a Sony ZVE one or something. I Yeah. One of those, yeah. Every tech company needs to work on naming things. It's impossible to remember. So like that's kind of gets into like I'm taking one next step of like caring about quality, but it's still pretty compact. And then you start getting into the the a sevens or the FX

threes or or stuff like that. That is like, you know, this cameras going to be really, really nice. Maybe you have someone like foundation as a cameraman who's coming around every time where it's not just I have to rig everything up, set it up. But so yeah, I would I would really, if you want to make content, watch content and and figure out what they're doing and use that as a stepping stone of looking at maybe what you want to do.

But I would highly, highly suggest the first thing you do is grab your phone and make sure you actually enjoy making it. And it's not because cameras are expensive man. You don't want to spend $1000 film run one round to be like wow this ruined my disc golf round and now I don't want to do it anymore. Yeah, I think some people, what they do is, and I tend to do this as I forget that it's about the story, it's about what you're telling.

And they think, well, if I just had a better camera, I'd have better content. Well, no, just to worry about the story. Exactly. It's just a higher quality, not great content, so that's not exactly ideal. Yeah. So what is it about content? OK, so we we talked a little about what the first things you encountered when you started watching content. Is there something, what would you tell somebody that wanted to?

Another question usually is when when someone says I'm going to start making disc golf content, you always say, OK, this is the things you got to think of, but tell us the things that they should make sure they don't do. Yeah, let I'm going to kind of try and try to connect both of these questions because to kind of add more, I know people are really interested in gear. So like the reason I say go out and just use what you have at

first. I also think Broderick says this and I couldn't agree more is like audio is so important. Audio, audio, audio, audio can make me click off something. But like to tack into that find this, like you said, the story you want to tell. It doesn't always have to be I, I don't know if you know the channel up and down disc golf. If you want like storytelling, storytelling, that's storytelling. But not every story has to be a beginning. And then like epiphany kind of

thing. The story might just be, I want to shoot 8 down at this course, but you have to make like, you have to make me, the viewer really be rooting for you to shoot 8 down somehow. Maybe it's super windy. Maybe it's whatever. You'll figure that out based on what you like to make. But I'm like, you want to go out and still really enjoy the stuff you're shooting? Because I can guarantee you I haven't clicked off videos because the video quality is bad.

I've clicked off videos because I can tell the person's not really that into what they're making right there. And I think there's way too many people out there in every niche. This isn't just disc golf. But like I click on the video, it's like, oh, this sounds like a good idea. And then I watch like 5 minutes of it and I'm like, do you really want to make this video right now?

Because it doesn't feel like it. And that as a viewer doesn't make me want to watch it. And that could be 8K footage with like beautiful scenery and and like the best shooting like in terms of playing disc golf I've ever seen.

But if the person just doesn't seem that into it, like I don't really care that much and I'm probably not going to watch it so. I remember I, I worked at a credit union and I wanted to get into marketing and I talked to the marketing manager, director, whatever she was and I said, I, I really have fun doing things and creating things and I think marketing would be a thing. And she said, why ask yourself this? What happens when it's work?

What happens when you have to have a deadline, when you have to have, you have a campaign, you have to have it done in two weeks. Is that going to be fun?

You know, it's, you know, it is fun to make one or two projects, but then when you're on your 4th or 5th project, sometimes it's not so fun because you've got a really, that's when the work of thinking things come up. I used to do some social media consulting when I was on my doing freelance and I had people ask me, I want to do a podcast and I'd say, OK, how many podcasts are you going to do in the next three months? And they'd say, well, we want to do 1 maybe once every two weeks.

I said, all right, we'll come up with 18 ideas right now on piece of paper and then let's talk about starting a podcast because you can think of the first 3 or 4 ideas, but then after that it's like, OK, I got to really think this through What, what could we talk about on our podcast?

So. It's it's so important, like consistency isn't extremely important if you want to make it eventually in the YouTube space, because in order to feed the algorithm, which I'm going to talk about way too much here, is like, it wants to see consistency. Me as a viewer, I don't want to be like, wow, that was the greatest video ever. I can't wait to watch it again.

And then four months later when nothing's come out, I've forgotten about Excrete and something, this is going to sound like a name drop, which I don't want it to, but Marquez preaches this all the time. And I thought it was really compelling when he got to do a sit down with LeBron and talk to him about, hey, you know, basketball is work for you. But Lebron's like, yeah, but I'm going to still go out and play, pick up basketball and not get paid for it.

Like, if Marquez didn't make it in YouTube and he was doing something else, I still think he would be making videos about the tech that he purchased on the side. He's just love of the game at a certain point. So that's why I say like, you should go out and make a bunch of content with whatever you have. If you're interested in it. You should probably make 20 videos without expecting to get a single view on them and just watch yourself progress and learn how to do it.

And then realize, do I still actually want to make this thing because that there is going to be burnout later and stuff like that and you want to be able to combat the burnout with like, well, I just enjoyed doing this anyways. Yeah, that's so hard doing that as a when you work for a business. Like, you know, for me, like, like, like you said, I love just creating content and yes, I want to create it and not worry about the views.

But I also have to worry about the views because, you know, I have to show that, yes, the work you paid me to do has some return on it. So yeah, that that can be a challenge for sure. You mentioned something real quick. You said the algorithm. I hate the algorithm and I get the algorithm really is just if people want to see your stuff, it's going to get shown, but it's such it feels like, like I'm a little I, I understand that when I first started making disc golf content that I was

very lucky, right? I was lucky because there wasn't much out there at all. There were some, but not a lot. There wasn't really a, a manufacturer that had a social media person only with that's all they were going to do. And so when we got onto the scene and we were showing behind the scenes stuffs, we were showing, you know what we did in the warehouse? We were showing tutorials, teaching people. It was all kind of fairly new,

right? Fairly new the way we were doing it. So it's almost like I, how do I say it was a cheat? But like I, there was nothing really. I was battling with, but now I am battling with a lot of content out there. So what, what, what would you say to that, to that question of man, it's so frustrating trying to fight. Sometimes you feel like you're fighting the algorithm. Yeah, I'm, listen, I'm going to not sit here and pretend like I've fought it as hard as a lot of people have.

I, I joined this channel when Marquez already had 4 million followers. I mean, he and he says all the time he got lucky as well. He got into space that was really small at the time and just kept at it. I mean, at a certain point, longevity may have been like, I don't want to diminish anything we've done. I think I've seen a lot of creators where when I started, they were similar to where we are. And now 10 years later, they're pretty much at the same spot.

And we've grown to a number that none of us ever thought was going to happen, including now separate channels that have like really, really good viewership that are supporting employees that we have. So it's not, you know, I haven't been in the trenches quite as hard. I've been in a different trench, I guess.

And the algorithm is, it is and always will be annoying because YouTube doesn't want to help you know what the algorithm is because everyone's going to try and game it as much as possible. But I which is a tough thing to do. I want people to be able to look at analytics in order to help them with their content. But the minute you just start trying to game, the system is more like, I care way more about views and whatever than actually putting the content out.

Which again, I'm not in a position where I have a company directly paying me to do that as a marketing person. So I I don't understand full on the the pressures of that. But like if I were to say, looking at your analytics on the inside is like average view duration is really what YouTube wants. YouTube is a company. YouTube can sell ads. The longer you're on a website, the more average view duration you have, the longer YouTube has the chance to sell the audience something.

So that doesn't mean always like make a longer video. It doesn't. It's like kind of this balancing act of what can my total view time look like based on like how good my content is. Don't try and pull it. But just like I want people to basically make it to the end of my videos is is a great goal. And the numbers are always going to look really small because so many people are out there

watching. I think you've said it before, 300 views might seem really small, but put 300 people in a room and it's and it's it's a crazy amount. And I think disc golf has one thing going for it where if you have some sort of partnership with a a manufacturer, with an online retailer, you get a little more of the like ROI of being able to maybe have an affiliate code or sell a disk or something like that. You don't have to rely purely on YouTube Adsense. So that's one little helpful bit

of it, I guess. But yeah, that the algorithm and it changes. It changes every month I feel like, so chasing it is. Yeah, it's hard to chase it and I think maybe you got to implement little tips and tricks here and then but here and there. But at the core of it, you just your message has to always still be the same. That way it kind of cuts through

all the algorithm stuff. So what is it that you see as far as like the, the tech world and how you guys have grown and, and, and become a big presence in the tech world? Can any of that translate over into what's going on in the disc

golf industry? It's like the, there's some similarities in the sense that like we don't consider ourselves journalists in the terms of like full blown journalists, but I think we've proven to the space that like legacy media isn't the de facto source of information anymore. So we are getting invites to these big companies and stuff like that. Just like in disc golf, YouTube content creators might be just as, if not more important than

some of the top touring pros. I mean, in terms of, you know, tech is a business of selling tech products. Disc golf is still a business of selling discs. And so a a disc golf creator probably might be able to push more plastic than a pro will, especially if they're a pro that's, you know, not really on social media, which I think is, you know, some some pros are doing it right now, but I think more should have like building your brand outside of that.

We like personality. We want to see people on a more personal level and be more connected with them. So you see like a stylus Schultz out there, you see Goose and Ezra making their their round, their practice round videos. Like that is like to me, the the ideal pro for a a manufacturer wants to have someone who is good and producing on tour, but also creating the content. I know Gannon this year brought Ben Kenny on to do that so he can really focus on it and get

that. And I mean, listen, I'm not handing out contracts, but if I was a disc golf manufacturer, I would want the the guy who's got not only like winning and proving you can win with the discs, but also the personality and the personal connection of like social media and YouTube and Instagram and stuff like that. Yeah. When I talk to our team players, that's kind of what I tell them is it's really, it's a value exchange, right? What value do you value do you

bring to your audience? The value if you're winning, right? The value is people get to watch somebody who's winning, right? Or the value could be the practice rounds or teaching them how to better their game or you're funny. Your personality of the humor is the value you bring. So what would you tell somebody? What would you tell a player that kind of is having some challenges with that in the sense of before they were when it comes to man, how do I break this down without sounding bad?

But before, whenever, you know, before a player was like competing, right? And so the better they did, they feel like the more value they brought. And then when they approach a company, they could say, hey, look at me, I'm top five, you know, I'm beating all the other guys. But now they're not just competing with the other competitors. They're competing with the J Millie's and the Broadway for manufacturer's attention. What what?

What advice would you give them? Man, yeah, it's it's like tough in the sense of like how what I would ask them to do because I don't know their full blown schedule. I just travel and like practice rounds and stuff like that is so much. I would say like give it a shot, try and find something that you can come and film what you're doing and put some thoughts out into the world.

Because a lot of people, I think more people would be into the pro tour if we kind of had a little more knowledge with the players. I think I think NBA is so successful in the US because this sounds crazy, but like I think one of the reasons it's more successful than hockey is because hockey we're wearing helmets and we have less of a personal connection because we're literally just not seeing players as much. But in the NBA, it's just the

person standing there. So like just the personal connection to a a pro could be something that gets someone to start watching pro door stuff more often. And like I said, I don't know how busy they are. I don't know what their talent level is or how comfortable they are with editing or whatever. It's it's really not that tough to pick up. If you could put some time into it. There's pros doing it, Casey White's out there, Simon's out there, Silas is out there.

There's lots more doing it. But just if you're going to do it, put the time and effort into it. Because when you have some pros with like thumbnails and stuff, that just feels like, oh, I'm doing this because it's going to make me more money later on in a, a contract negotiation. And it doesn't feel like you're putting any effort into the video. If your thumbnail has the same headshot that you took four years ago and every single thumbnail, like you're going to lose all of that.

It feels like there's not a lot of attention being paid into it. So yeah, just just put the effort into it. It's easier said than done. I totally get it. But try some out, see if you enjoy it. And I think they will only be beneficial to the the people out there marketing themselves. Yeah, yeah, that's what I try to tell, tell the players. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't, but it's all good. And yeah.

The players are super young too, man, I I don't get like I, I was just listening to an interview Silas did on the like all birdies, no bogeys and I didn't realize he's only like 22. I was like, wow, you've done wow, a lot of stuff already in both senses. Like he's an incredible editor, He's a great player. Like that's really impressive

doing stuff. So I'm sure being young and driving across the country all year is there's lots of shenanigans to get into and having fun with that rather than doing editing stuff. And, you know, that's probably the more fun thing to do. But I think if you wanted to grow that, yeah, a YouTube channel or an Instagram would be super helpful for anyone out there. Yeah. OK. So I'm going to ask you some questions that's kind of selfish on my end, but hopefully our listeners will will gain some

information. What is when you're when you guys are planning your podcast or when you guys are planning any particular production or whatever, what's kind of the how much, how much goes into the planning before you even hit record? We are probably the worst company to take advice from on this because we are really last minute on things. We having Marquez and he's been

doing this for 15 years. So there's a a streamlined effort of things that he just like knows what to do for our bread and butter of like a phone review of go to the event, get the phone. He can use it for X amount of time, but then when it gets to like sit down and write, he can knock a script out in a day and we can film the next day or that

night. And then editing is a pretty quick turn around just because of all the stuff we've put in place of how to streamline that in a controlled studio Podcast is at this point now like 350 episodes in. So we, we also have a pretty good thing going there where we have essentially, I think this is something that we have that's important to disc golf. And you mentioned before about like a Discord server that I tried to create.

This was for disc golf creators. This was something that I saw in the tech space where like us inside our bubble, there's like 17 people working here. We have a Slack server that's just not only has the stuff for what we have to do for work, but as channels where we can just discuss the things we're seeing online because so much tech is coming out all the time. And one of those channels is just our waveform channel, which is if you see any news article that's interesting posted in

there. So when David and myself start writing the outline for every week, we can just pull stuff from there and we bring it onto the podcast. And since it's conversation, we don't really need a script.

We do a couple bullet points and we all just five of us talk about it. But so like, I wanted to create that server because I think having a community of people who are in a similar situation is a great way to bounce ideas off of each other, A great way to get opinions on like maybe a thumbnail, maybe an idea, maybe collaborations.

I think collaborations are crazy important, but the biggest thing we always say is like a collaboration should bring benefit to both audiences rather than just, hey, I want your audience, you want my audience. It should be like, oh, I, I have ex expertise and I think your audience would appreciate that

we should do something together. So yeah, like community inside this creator space, whether it's a bunch of the big creators getting together, whether it's a bunch of people around you that you just know personally that make contacts or content. Sorry, getting having some sort of a feedback loop there I think can be super important. Well, you said there I could relate to the process because I'm very much like, I have to force myself to sit down and create a script.

I know what I want to see, but I I tend to like my my one of my more favorite projects was my, the disc golf adventures where I just was going out and filming with us going to a tournament and and having fun with our players. Because there wasn't much of A script, it was like things would just happen. People were being funny and silly and that kind of helped navigate what I was going to do

in that vlog episode. So yeah, I was just, I was curious to know what the process was when you guys were, how much you really put into script writing and and stuff like that. Yeah. One thing I would say is I think experience isn't just you know, what you make personally, but it's experiencing what else is in this space. So I really think, and I know a lot of creators in the disco scene don't do is like just watch content. It's not like I hope people don't always think like, oh, I

saw ex creator do this. I'm just stealing from him. It's like, no, you could probably put your own twist on it and get a good idea from it. I like I also think some people do better scripted, some people do better unscripted. Some people can tell a story by just showing up to a a course and playing it and understand what's going on.

Like I got to play around with Bonanza on video and I got to watch him kind of navigate how the video is going to flow as we were playing it 'cause he's really good at that. But if you go out and shoot 18 holes and your goal was 500 and you come back and watch it and you realize you're not talking to the camera at all. Like maybe that's just not your niche there and, and you might want to find something else. I, I've had this thing in my mind that I think is a good

piece of advice. So we'll see if your audience agrees with that. If you, if you can play back your video without any video and just audio and still get a pretty good sense of what's going on, almost like it turns into a podcast. It's probably a really captivating video. I'm at the point where I can turn a Bonanza video on in my car and not watch any of it and just listen to it and feel like I watched the video.

I also have a really long commute, so I do that very often, but like that's because people can continually engage with the audience in that sense where you probably, I know you said you found my channel, you probably watched it and it's like 20 seconds of a throw and me like mumbling about nothing and then like, OK, now I'm going to throw a zone, throw it cool. That was a nice shot. Go to the next one. Oh, I'm going to put this is pretty long.

I probably won't make it. I don't make it cool on like that's not that interesting. So I almost try and look at some of the audio of things as like a podcast, and if it's working like that, the video is probably working pretty well too. Or thought about it that way, but that makes a lot of sense. I have a well, on certain days when I drive to right now I'm in Oklahoma, but then when I drive to Emporia to work out there, I have a three and a half hour commute.

Yeah, I do. I do do that a lot. I'll have a YouTube video going, but I pay premium so I can turn off the audio or turn off the video. And that makes a lot of sense. I might have to test that out on a few of our videos we've done and see see if I lose interest. Of course, listen to yourself over and over and over again. Yeah, Oh my. Goodness, but, but that's a good tester. I, I really like that. So now I OK, another thing. So let's talk.

You mentioned thumbnails a couple times and I've heard you talk about thumbnails on other interviews. So, and that's again, I'm going to be honest and I don't know if this is just the way I I put so much effort into the content that I hate that I have to put effort into the thumbnail or the packaging, But that's I under, but I also understand its importance. So help me, help me as someone that needs to get over that hump.

Sure, listen, you're you're going to have to put effort into it. That's just part of being it. And like, yeah, but not every thumbnail needs to be I I think most people suffer from overcomplicating thumbnails. I think that your main goal in a thumbnail should be like being recognizable, because I want Dynamic Discs to. I need to see Dynamic Discs on my homepage because I'm not going to the subscription page under that.

I'm subscribed to you anymore. So I probably need to see a face that I recognize and I like to keep it no more than three subjects. There's just not enough space. If you think about how big a thumbnail is, I want to be able to see a thumbnail, recognize what I see, understand the channel that is right away. And then that should lead me to

the title. And then after that I should want to click it. And then like the 1st 20 seconds of the videos, that's where I'm you can tell if you're locked in or not. So that that 32nd total window is kind of where you get a viewer and that's why it's so important, But it doesn't need to go crazy. It should show that it's disc golf because we want to.

It's sounds dumb, but it's really easy to be like, this is what I did throwing and then make a thumbnail think it's great and realize an average person might not understand this is disc golf because you don't see a disc anywhere. And then after you get those things down, that's when you really start dialing it into what it what makes you, you stand out because like everything I'm saying is going to make you look like every other thumbnail, which is not

what I want to happen. But most people understand thumbnails to a degree. So things start looking the same. One person, I think that does it really well in a really interesting way that maybe is almost against everything I say, but I think does it perfectly, is Broderick. He has just developed his style. You know, it's a Broderick video because it's like pretty green in terms of the the like shrubbery and trees and

everything. It always has red text, it doesn't always have his face, but you can just kind of tell who Broderick is. And and while it goes against the really big face that I like to have in terms of like it's recognizable when you're his viewer. And that's the biggest thing. You need to make sure you can capture your audience and watch your videos before you can capture other ones or else the channels not going to have

anyone. So I need to know if I'm subscribed to dynamic that that's a dynamic video up there without reading the text, because the text that says dynamic is the smallest thing possible out of everything you're seeing. Gotcha. That's one of the and then one of the challenges we're having on our YouTube channel is when I left, I think we had maybe 78,000 subscribers. I think it was around that.

So we were doing pretty good. We would get, we would average the way I would look at it right before I left, I think is if we didn't hit 10,000 views within the 1st 12 hours, I think it was, then I'd, we need to look at what happened right? Because we, that's, that was kind of our marker and we would get some really good views. And then when I had a guy, Danny, he was working, making some tutorials. He was getting really good views.

People love that stuff. And then I left and everything kind of shifted as far as like what was emphasized as far as content creation. And we leaned a lot into, they leaned a lot into Conan Montgomery and with Ricky Wysocki. So they were a big presence. So they leaned heavy into the pro and so it felt like we had it and I'm getting somewhere at the to my question, but no, no,

I so YouTube had a shift. It was like we shifted what we showed YouTube. Then it went dormant after, you know, all everything happened with them left and then it was like there wasn't much of A quality. I don't want to brag on the guys, but for about 9-10 months there were some videos, but it wasn't like a big time quality because the shift, again, there was a shift in leadership and the shift in what was being emphasized.

And then I come back and I'm like, OK, let's get back to what we were doing before, the fun casual type stuff. But we have 96,000 subscribers and we're getting like we're fighting for 2000 views, we're fighting for 25. And like, what would your advice be on that? Like there's I'm, I'm almost like ready to scrap the channel and just start over again and, and fight that battle. I mean, in the way YouTube works you this channel kind of has

been scrapped twice already. In that sense, it's like you've the subscriber button again. Like I mentioned, it's not as important these days because one, people aren't subscribing that much and two, lots of people don't unsubscribe from things. I mean, I don't, I probably have like 10 or 15 channels that I probably never watch anymore that just like pure nostalgia or laziness is has me still subscribe to it. But YouTube knows that so it

never recommends me on my page. I don't even know I'm subscribed anymore. And like you said, if you focus so much on Ricky and Kona and they're not there anymore, you created a familiarity with your audience then on Ricky and Kona and not so much on a different personality. So you kind of are starting again. I don't think I would scrap it and start over. I don't think it's going to be hitting you negatively.

It's just you got to look at numbers outside that subscription thing because those number, those, the subscription number doesn't guarantee anything anymore. It used to be almost a guarantee view. Now it basically doesn't. So I would just to look at it is like reset yourself on what you're expecting out of a video. If 2000 views is what you're going for, it'd be like cool, 2000 views is what I'm getting from my core audience right now. I want to build my core audience.

How do I get those numbers up and start seeing a core audience being built? It used to be pretty easy because we could say if you got 20% of the views based on your subscriptions, that was a pretty ideal spot. We're seeing now more than ever when a channel's really cooking here, that's not our main channel. It's like the the our podcast has 500,000 subscribers, but we're averaging like 200 to 250,000 views on a video.

That's way bigger than the old percentage I used to look at, where our autofocus channel is almost surpassing views of subscribers every single time, which is awesome to see. The audience is just built on the recommended and homepage stuff now, so you just got to, it's a harder number to figure out, but you just got to reset, learn what your real audience

is, and then go from there. Yeah, that's kind of it's like logically it makes sense in my mind from working on social media, but it manages hurts the ego for sure. I totally totally understand. It's like the for expectations are the thief of joy and the subscription expectation is we all still think it's really there, but it it really isn't anymore and it's it's stealing joy from us every day.

So to that end, for someone that is wanting thinking about starting and they are starting from, let's say, 0 or a channel that maybe has just a few 100. So it sounds like what you're saying is don't really pay much attention to, you know, that used to be the winds was subscribers, right? And that's I'm that's still something you can measure, but it sounds like more of the watch time.

And what other analytics would you say, OK, pay attention to these and how are you making these better so you can optimize your videos better? Yeah, I mean, watch time is the most important. I'm we, we still look, I still love to be analytic, but it's just so like personal into what you're you're doing and trying to understand your audience. I'd, I'd read comments and see what people are thinking, which is also a like really slippery slope of how do I handle hate

comments? How do I handle like non constructive criticism? I think the the most important thing when you're reading comments is how to understand what comment is constructive and what comment is just annoying, which is hard to do. And trust me, as someone who's read more comments than I ever should have ever, It totally, totally takes a strain on mental.

So it's really tough. I, I would say, you know, you looking at what your average views are kind of coming to seeing how many of them are making it through like a pretty good portion of the video. Because you like average view duration 'cause that's what YouTube likes. But also you should like average view duration because you made a whole video and you should, not many people go to the movie and walk out 30 minutes into it unless it's a really bad movie.

So like you want people to watch all of your content. And the difference is versus the movies is on YouTube, there's twenty other movies that you can click into in one second right on the side of your screen and be in something else. So that's what makes it tough. I, I just really, I know these are probably all super, super boring answers for people who just want to like be content creators and stuff like that. But I, I like watching people grow slowly and the right way.

Like J Millie could have quit his job pretty early on, but he waited for a while. He really wanted to make sure it was it. There's another cooking creator that I love named Internet Shaquille, who easily, easily had the subscriber count and the view counts to go full time for a long time and kept his full time job because then he didn't have the pressures on him to, to have to create all the time.

He's full time now, but it took him forever and the the goal for being a full time content creator is super lofty, but I I think like doing it for the love of the game for a while and really seeing what it turns out to. It's also like, not to ramble too much here, but if you're creating a lot of videos and stuff and making it personally, the skill set you get from that is, you know, we're in a digital

age now. You could probably land a job somewhere knowing the insurance and outs of some social media, knowing cameras, knowing editing software, knowing how things flow. Like that's a hot commodity right now. And you might be able to pull something off later. It that maybe that isn't disc golf related, but maybe you're doing Robbie C is working at a new place now and probably took it all from like, he knows all the stuff because he made disc golf content.

Yeah, yeah, I believe that for sure. I I I was I remember how do I say this? I remember when I first started doing this and getting into it and people in your social media was still kind of a new thing. And then every time I read an article that said video is the king videos more we're going to see video grow by three times.

I was like, thank God, that's what something I was interested in. Thank God I was something that I like doing because I feel like I could find a job no matter what what what industry I was in. I could find some sort of make a video job or do it on my own or something like that. So yeah, I agree with you 100%. Let me ask you this. Sure, AI. Oh man, I well, sorry, continue the question. No, just I, just the whole reaction. So what? Is it? Yeah.

Well, no, just what what? I have a feeling it's going to be like the early days of social media and people just hated it. It's useless, it's terrible. It's this and that. And now it's like it's part of our everyday life, right? And so I, I have a feeling AI is going to be like, it's already part of our life in a lot of ways that we probably don't even realize. But as far as like AI when it comes to content creation. What are your thoughts on it?

OK, I'm in the tech space. I have to talk about AI pretty much every week. It is exhausting. I think the biggest thing with AI right now is like, people hate it because of how many companies are taking advantage of just trying to make as much money as possible with very little care to the overall world. I mean, we all know the environmental impacts of some of the stuff that's happening. There's kind of like a gold rush

of it right now. That's sad to see, but there's obviously a lot of pros of it in terms of tools that people can use when it comes to content creation. Just don't let it suck the personality out of what you're making. I think that's the biggest issue so many people have with it is like, I don't want to see an AI thumbnail because one, I didn't know you put that much, put put too much effort into it because you just wanted to prompt

something. And two, like it's not actually what I'm going to watch in the video. It's it's a full recreation of a machine that doesn't really know what's going on. So we, we've immediately sucked personality out of things and we are all watching content because of like I said on one of the first questions you asked here is like there's a personal connection to things.

That's not to say don't use some AI tools like in Photoshop, like a content aware fill has gotten so much better because there's now some machine learning in the background of learning what the picture is. And maybe you can edit that disc golf basket into another spot or maybe you can add some more trees in a in here or there or just like be able to cut stuff

out better. I mean, just subject select in Photoshop now can save people hours of times of cutting out your subject and making them bigger or change the brightness or color levels of them. So that's super helpful and I love that and people can use that. But I also don't think it's that much different from things we've had in the past. It's just using a different technology to make it a little bit better.

So use it as a, in my eyes, use it as a tool to enhance the personal thing that you're making. But if you're just like, I'm going to make content and I don't feel like doing XY and Z, so I'm just going to let AI do it. You've probably lost the plot already and it's going to show in the video. Yeah, for sure. I like that.

Don't take out the personality. I saw this or just this morning on X where someone posted AI think it's called seed two or something like that, but I can't remember who it's from. Yeah, Seed 2 and that it was a a clip of Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise fighting on the top of the building and it looked so real. But someone made a comment and said, this does look, it looks very real, like it could really be the movie. But the fact that I know that it's AI makes me not impressed.

I'd be, I would be impressed if literally Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt practiced and rehearsed and put together this sweet fight sequence. Then I would be like, whoa, Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise. But now it's like, no, someone just typed in a prompt and this is what you see. So it's not as impressive. Yeah, I also like using it for a

tool sometimes. What I'm trying to envision how I want to make a thumbnail of all prompt things to get an idea of how things look and how they take up space in a, in a thumbnail format. And then I make it myself or I pose some questions to like what maybe a title could be. And I use those as a jumping off point.

It's almost like having an, an extra person to bounce ideas off of. I still always think getting an extra person to bounce ideas off of is better, but maybe that person's sleeping 'cause you were editing till 3:00 AM. So there's, there's benefits there. But yeah, it personality wise also in terms of it creating videos, like you're saying, think of how long the video game industry has been around and we can still watch the the new highest spec video game, the best graphics ever.

And you can immediately tell it's a video game because someone can't walk up a curb. Well, like, we're so far away from being able to actually replicate human things that I think, you know, I'm worried about it, but I'm not too, too worried about it because the, the jump up to actually being at the level of just us as human beings are, is, is such a hard

job. Even if in the last five years we've made this insane leap to get to where we are, we've there's still a long way to go. It's crazy. It's crazy what it's going to be like in the next 5 years, seeing how much it's gone in just five years. And so, yeah, well, I don't want to take up too much of your time. I appreciate you taking the time, Andrew. But if you have time, as I do on the show, if you have any questions you would like to ask for a conversation, I'm I'm ready to answer.

Sure, I don't have a question. I can't prepare with something else, which maybe isn't that interesting, but I want to recommend a disc for you. That's a dynamic disc that I never see anyone talk about and that's I it's not just the disc, it's the plastic, but the Supreme escape. OK, I think might be the most underrated disc in your guys lineup. I don't know why I love this disc so much, but it's a nine speed, it's so glidy.

It's like I'm a really hyzer player and it is my like my woodsy fairway bomber kind of thing 'cause I can put it on a lot of hyzer and it can stand up and just go. My only issue is it's the worst color for the fall, so I have to take it out of my bag half of the year. But I don't know if you've thrown this one specifically in Supreme plastic cause Supreme Plastic is fantastic, but I think if you're not throwing it or haven't, you should throw it. I have not thrown it I really. Really.

Well, for you, yeah. No, I would like I know the escape. Is huge already, but in this supreme it is money. OK, so I will tell you kind of an inside thing OK that may I think let me double check before I'm checking my little product page here to make sure I am OK. So what we were doing is we are taking, so when we make extreme Supreme, there's a certain, the way the molds work, it has to be a separate mold because we couldn't just take the Escape mold. This is the way I understand it.

We couldn't take the escaped mold and just put Supreme plastic. It was like they had to do something different to create a Supreme Escape, right? Well, we're going to take that and actually create a new disc of itself. And so it's going to be the mold of the Supreme Escape and it's going to be something brand new, OK. And that won't release until the summer time, but I'm excited about it. And so that might be something to look for.

But I I'm going to pick up because I do like the Escape. I have a really old beat in one. And so I'll have to try out the Supreme Escape. Good. You know, maybe it'll fly like your beat in one already, but there's just like out-of-the-box. I lost one. I bought 1 again immediately. I don't know why I keep buying in this color because that's why I lost it. But yeah, I think this is just a money disc and I just don't see anyone throwing it.

And that's maybe because I don't play with all that many people, but I, I don't know, I think it's a great, great disc. Nice. Well, let me ask. Well, I, I was just listening to your, your appearance on Fun Z podcast from about a about a year ago and you had mentioned, and I don't know if this is still a thing where you're like, Hey, I'll give you some YouTube advice in exchange for discs. I was peddling, yeah, my, you know, I just like to give You

Tube advice. So it mostly will come down to time. But if people are out there wanting to make stuff like I check my D Ms. a lot on Instagram and I'll probably respond in some way. If you want to send, if anyone wants to send me discs, I'm here. I'm thinking about me. I'll send you some discs bro. You want to send me some discs? I'll definitely. Yeah, Yeah. I like dynamic. I actually, my other dynamic that I use is, do you remember I reached out a while ago, I saw

this. You guys were, I don't know if you were sponsoring this Alaskan tournament, but I'm my dad was a big fan of just the animal, the moose, yes. Yes. You guys had this sweet stamp. I was like, I need that. Bobby, please, if you know everyone and you, you had me reach out to someone in Texas. Super, super nice guy. I got a Heist and the retooled Emac Truth, and I use the Emac Truth. The stamp is just so good. But yeah, listen, I'm always

open for discs. I don't know, for my game, I probably should stop throwing more and just throw the ones that I have. But I also, we're all disc golfers. We like to throw new things. So I'm always down to try new stuff out. Yeah, yeah, I definitely need some advice on our on our dynamic disk channel, so maybe we can work something. Else, I mean, you've got my contact. Do you Hit me up whenever you need?

Cool. And I'm the same way as far as my bag being someone that has to be able to talk about our disks. Yeah, I have to be careful because I'll have a new bag every two months if I'm if I'm not careful just trying out new, new disk and stuff like that. So, but anyway, all right, Andrew, I, I appreciate you being on the show. I know we kind of went on different tangents, but I just love having a conversation about disc golf and content. So I appreciate you hopping on and doing that with me.

Yeah, of course. And I've, I've appreciated all the content creators you had on because like I said, I like both of them. So I've listened to all of them. I mean, you're pulling in some great like getting Kmac on here. I know him like some more, I don't want to call them underground, but maybe lesser known people. And, and I think there's some people out there making some really, really quality content that people don't really know about yet. You got Luke Jenkins on.

I love his channel and I think no one really knows about him so. He's he's hilarious and I love his vibe. He's just got to like a feel good, just want to have a good time and be a good person vibe and I love it. It makes me wish there was a single disc golf store anywhere near me and I would be in a used you spin rack every single day. Probably, but I don't. That's why I have to go to the Expo every year because that's the only time I get to like, touch frisbees other than

ordering them online. You're not going to, you probably can't make it out to the Disc S 1, can you? Too far, unfortunately, yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, no worries. Yeah. I love talking to people in the disc golf industry. So right now I'm doing the social content or the content creators. But pretty soon I want to start talking to some tournament directors and store owners because I believe that everybody's got a nice, a great perspective. They have their own perspective.

And I think that's helpful to know other people's perspective. Yeah, for sure. So, all right, again, thanks so much, Andrew. I'll let you get back to your day. I appreciate you and I'll talk to you there later. Cool, thanks so much for having me.