Ep 296 | Using ChatGPT Correctly with Steven Lewis

Long story short, I combine two backgrounds, so I started building websites in 1994 which, if anybody is you know, old enough to remember, not many people even knew what a website was, so I started building them, and I'd explain to people what they were, and then people say, I've heard of this thing called email. What's that? So that is my level of interest in technology. I like to be there first, but I'm also

a writer, so for 30 years I've been a professional. I've been a copywriter, so my job is persuading people to do something. That is what copywriting is. It's not you want you need to entertain people. You need to get people to read what you're saying. You need them to feel informed and educated. That's what I used to do as a journalist. But then you're taking that extra leap of persuading people. And when chatgpt came along, or even before that, actually a couple

of years before chatgpt, we were using a tool called Jasper. They purport to be copywriting tools. That's their whole offer that I'm coming for your job. So this tool is out there. It says it's coming for my job. The media is all about it. I thought, well, I need to learn what this is, because it's the threat. And then I realized it was the most phenomenal tool to help me be better at my job. It could not do my job, but it could make me

so much better at it. And that got me so excited that I did what has always been the pattern of my life, which is, I learn it and then I teach it. So when I learned how to build websites, I became a journalist who wrote about the internet, and again, at a time when you were explaining, what is the internet, where we still spelled out, www.we, still said the World Wide Web out loud. Nobody said the web, because nobody

would have known what the web was. So that's been my pattern, and I'm so excited about what chat GPT can do to help people whatever their job, be better at their job, but particularly if your job involves writing and persuading people you need to know how to use chat GPT properly, not the way that other people use it properly, Sami Bedell-Mulhern: yeah, well, I first of all love your take on technology and your kind of willingness to learn. We did

another podcast episode a long time ago. Might have been like even a year and a half, but we'll link it up in the show notes, about like, how to bring your organization into technology, how to talk to people on your team, about like, embracing technology, because to your point, it's not going anywhere, and if you learn about it, it's just going to help you. To your second point on if your job includes persuading people

or sales. I mean, I think in any job that is the case, whether it's trying to figure out how to get your boss to do this new idea, or how to get your child to clean up their room, or like, like, it's just really interesting, like that. There is nobody that isn't doing that in some way, shape or form in their job. And so I love that you said that, but I think anybody can use chatgpt for all sorts of things, even if it's not work related. I think a lot of people don't realize that

everything is persuasion. So I used to work briefly in an internal communications team in a bank, and what my colleagues didn't really understand was just because you're writing to people who are paid by the bank to work there doesn't mean you don't have to persuade them to read the stuff that you send. Even to open the email. Just because the email comes from the CEO doesn't mean anybody's going to open it. You have to persuade them that it's worth opening everything is persuasion. And

everybody, nobody likes the word selling. Everybody is selling something, even if it's I'm selling myself. For you to pay attention to when you get home in the evening, frankly, you're selling everything through that lens is selling and chatgpt can help you. I've got a talk that I'm giving at my daughter's school in April, which is how to persuade your parents to do whatever you want them to do without and have them be happy about it, using chat GPT like that's the that's that's the

talk that I'm giving. How to use chat GPT to get your parents to bend to your will. Sami Bedell-Mulhern: That's so fun. And talk about the right title for the right target audience, right? But let's before we get too far into this. For those that are listening to this and you've maybe heard the term chat GPT, or you've kind of seen it places, but have never touched it, or don't really know what it is. Could you give kind of just the basic rundown of what chat GPT is?

Chat GPT is what they call a large language model, which, again, is leaking into the world such that you may see even newspapers now just say LLM, as if we all know what a large language model is, chatgpt, it's an LLM. Large language model just means it's a machine that has read an unimaginable amount of material. So you imagine that it's read your website and every other website in the world it's read.

Every book that they could feed into it, every blog post, every forum post, every academic journal, anything that its makers could get their hands on. OpenAI, the makers of chatgpt and all these large language models have fed that into the beast. So you train the beast on that so that the beast can then write on pretty much any topic. So that's that's the AI part. You say, write something, and the Beast goes into the belly of

its knowledge and starts writing. And it looks like it's super intelligent and it's thinking, but it's actually writing statistically, one word at a time. So it writes the first word, and then it says, what would the average human say next in this context? So if you've said, please write me an email to my boss explaining that I'm not coming in for the next week. It will say, Okay, right? What would the average human right? After this word, then it's got those words, what would

it write next? Which is why you get super bland writing, because the AI is asking quite literally, what would the average person say now? So the skill with chat GPT is being like a potter. So you've got the clay on the wheel, and you think of chat GPT is the wheel, and you've got to be there shaping it. So the more context you give chatgpt, the better its writing

will be. So if you say to it, for instance, my tone of voice is this, and then you describe your tone of voice, you've immediately changed the context so that it will write differently. Then you could say, and I'm writing to somebody who's six foot tall, lives in the Midwest, drives a truck, but also enjoys ballroom dancing. Well, immediately you're

changing all of that context that chat GPT is applying. So what you've got is this huge, unimaginable library of knowledge being dipped into by this incredibly intelligent computer controlled by you, and if you know how to control it, you are a human being sitting on top of the world's largest ever library and most intelligent ever computer, Getting it to help you to do your job. But the thing that is not really widely explained is, how do you get good at being the driver of that

machine? Because it isn't typing, please write me a LinkedIn post. Please write me a flyer about my program. That is not how you get the best out of it. Sami Bedell-Mulhern: Well, and I feel like when it first started coming out, or when people first use it, it looks very much like a search engine, you know, where you just type so it almost feels like you should just be putting in prompts, as if you're searching online, but really, you can have a whole

conversation with it, right? So it's not just I put in my prompt, it spit something out, and then we're done with our our day. So even if you start with a simplistic prompt, you know, we can still kind of refine and start to add more things into

it. I mean, you can really have a conversation with with it. And and it gets better, because chat GPT operates on something called the context window, which means when you're in a chat with chat GPT, when you type something into that prompt box, that prompt box is disastrous, because that prompt box is this skinny little thing at the bottom, yeah, that implies is short, yes, oh, I should type in one sentence. It's like if you had a robot surgeon, right? That you had a

button that said, push here for taking your appendix out. And you're like, Oh yeah, great. I'll just put my kid on the table and I'll hit that button. You're like, No, do not touch the button unless you know what you're doing, right? It's not that simple. So the prompt box is that thin, but I write chatgpt prompts that could be 300 words long. Now I don't write a 300 word long prompt necessarily. Every time I have a library of them, I keep them. I work on a good prompt and I keep

them. But to your example, let's say you type in that one sentence and say, Please write me an email about a program that I'm running, and it writes something. And you say, Okay, I don't really like that. Then absolutely you can say, look, I like where you're going with that, just as you would to a colleague. You know, little bit of encouragement goes a long way. Oh, you know, I like what you did with that. I see where you were going actually. I hate it, you know, like, I'm English,

right? So that's what we do all the time. We go, oh, that's an interesting approach, which means, to an English person, I absolutely loathe what you've done. Oh, interesting approach, so you give it a little bit of price. Oh, you know, that's nice. I really see where you're going. Thanks for doing that for me. Because one chat GPT responds to flattery. I'm not joking like there's, there's a tip that's that's been proved in academic research. They don't know why, but large language.

Models like to be flattered. They work harder for you, interesting, flatter them, act genuine. Fact, you I don't like that. But paragraph one, could it be a bit shorter? Would you make it a little bit longer? Like, actually, you've got a small detail of the program wrong? It's actually this. So first is a mindset shift of you're not it's not one and done. It's not like you know, it's not like you load the gun, you fire and the bullet either hits the target or it doesn't as

you say. It's a conversation, and you will have a much more fruitful conversation with chat GPT, if you think of it as a very intelligent but junior colleague who has only just joined the organization. So if you have somebody starting your business on Monday, you wouldn't just say, Sarah. Write, write, write me a flyer about this program, and then swivel in your chair and leave Sarah to do her own thing while you go off to the kitchen and make yourself a cup of coffee, because Sarah's

got it. No, she doesn't. She needs some briefing, brief chat. GPT, Sami Bedell-Mulhern: well, and even to take that analogy a step further, if you were writing it on your own, even as a seasoned copywriter, you don't write things one time and be done with. You don't just write the first draft and say, This is brilliant. We're going to go ahead and send it off to the press like I'm done. So how can you expect AI to do that for you as well? Because that's just not how you would work.

That's absolutely true. And also this takes you to a really interesting point. Is that I said that chat GPT has read all of this stuff. It's understood all of this stuff, and that, I think doesn't really come across. I think people think I can get into chat GPT and I can say, write me a write me a flyer or an email or a LinkedIn post or whatever it might be. But even if you never, ever like I understand there are

people who are writers professionally. You know, maybe they've been writing fundraising campaigns for a really long time, and they're like, I know my organization. I'm a fundraising writer. I know how to do this. I will never diminish myself by sending something out that was written by a robot. And I get that. I get that point of view. I've been a professional writer for 30 years. It's how I've made my living. So I understand that, even if you don't like that thin

AI, as I say, is this library that you can tap into. So you can think, Okay, I'm never, I'm never going to let you write for me, robot. But you know some things, why don't I work on that? And if you know how to get into chat, GPT is understanding say of people, then you could help your writing to be much more persuasive. So, I mean, I do all sorts of things like develop avatars of personas using what chat GPT knows about people. But if you want say a simple example, for instance,

you could say to chat GPT, chat GPT. My organization does this. Our typical reader of our material is that, what can you tell me about their psychology when it comes to material from us? Now that is an incredibly simplistic prompt, but you will get depth from that. Then you can use that in what you're writing. So for instance, if you then did want to write and we use our please write about my program. Example, you can say, please write about my program to these people that chat GPT has

just told you about. So exactly as you're saying. As a copywriter, I wouldn't just start give a prompt and leave it. But equally, I wouldn't start with no brief. My brief would be, this is my organization. These are my goals. This is who I'm writing to. This is why they care about us. This is why they might ignore us and give money to somebody else. You know, all of those things are. As a copywriter, if I came to your organization, I'd want to know

that. What do you know about the person reading what I'm writing? And chat GPT knows, and if you know how to ask it, there's gold. I mean, there's absolute gold. Like you wouldn't believe

what you could get chat GPT to do for you well. And I Sami Bedell-Mulhern: really want to double down on this real quick, because I've heard this from a couple other people in the chat GPT space as well, and I want to make sure that people hear what you said, because I think it's critically important, prompts matter, and you don't have to come up with them on

your own. I love that you're talking about letting chat GPT help you build those prompts and build those responses and help you understand how to use the machine, just by asking questions and going from there, kind of taking the different layers of okay, well, if I'm just at the part where I'm trying to figure out who my personas are, start with the basic questions and kind of build from there. I think that's critically important and such a great way for people to use this

tool, especially if you're not a copywriter, especially. If you're in a small team, especially if you can't afford a huge consultant. And so I just want to make sure we don't gloss over that, because I think, yes, it's good for content generation and things of that, but it's also good for helping you figure out how you want to create and craft the prompts like, let it

help you do that. I think one of the this little prompt window that we're talking about being the sort of dangerous is because people then think, I'm I'm a fool if I can't work out how to use it, because obviously it must be so simple, because all they give you is this little window so they must think it's simple. You know, like when Apple sends you a product and there's no instruction manual anymore, and and my mother says to me, when she gets a new iPhone, she's like, how am I

supposed to work this out? And then you're like, well, Apple just thinks you will, or you're Google, like, they don't. They don't see it as their problem anymore. They've sent you a thing in a nice box, and that's chat GPT. It's a thing in a nice

box with this window. But last time I was in in Vegas, the thing that blew me away that I'd not noticed, I hadn't been for a long time and hadn't noticed, was, you've got the strip, and then one block over is nothing like, it's like, you know, like a bail bondsman and a, you know, like a, you know, lawyers for people who've been locked up, and the bail bondsman next door, like so you've got the strip, which is world famous. Everybody's seen that, drone shots, helicopter shots. We've

all watched honeymoon, you know, we've all seen the strip. And then one block over, it's nothing. It's a barely illuminated street full of bail bondsmen. If you are just typing into chat GPT things that you can think of, you're probably walking down the bail bondsman part of Vegas thinking. Everyone talks about Vegas, but it's a bit rubbish. Like, there's nothing, but bails bondsman and crappy motels. Like, what's happening? And you're like, No, what block over the Strip? The

strip? People like, what's this strip you're talking about? I keep reading about the strip in the media, and this is why I think, I mean, obviously I run courses on chat, GPT, so I would say this, but to go and find somebody to show you what it can do is, is like somebody taking you from the back of the strip, going, I don't understand this. It's just rubbish bins and service entrances to the strip itself again. Oh, my God, I get it, and my life has changed forever because I teach people

how to use chat GPT as a consultant. So as I say, whether they ever write anything or not, your team, and a lot of my clients, are teams of one. It is a very lonely team. They are everything, and even if they work in an organization, they're the one person in their organization who does what they do. So it's lonely. They've got no one to bounce ideas off, even if they work in a small team, nobody has time for you to swivel in your chair and say, Hey, I'm working on something at

the moment. Could you drop everything you're doing and spend a couple of hours with me doing what I'm doing? No, I can't. I've got my own job, but if you know how to use chat GPT as a consultant, you have that incredible thought partner, where it can't do what you do. You can't do what it does, but together, it's like Iron Man, right? You've stepped into the suit. It's the whole it's the whole thing,

Sami Bedell-Mulhern: yeah? Well, so this leads me to, you know, I think another reason why some people stay away from chat GPT or AI are security concerns. I know it's been interesting. When I look at my analytics, I consistently have strong referrals from chat GPT to my website, which I don't you know that it's showing up in people's results and whatnot. That's not

something I'm controlling or trying to do. So kind of, what does not, I know it's a like, we could spend a whole episode on security and AI, but just kind of top level, you know, as we think about a paid versus a free account, kind of proprietary information, like as we're kind of dipping our toe into this and having conversations or playing with with the conversations inside of chat GPT, what might we want to consider at a very basic level before kind of going all in

chat GPT will tell you at various levels of account that it doesn't use your what you put in doesn't go into the belly of the beast. It just stays in your conversation. Big technology. Big tech does not have what you'd call a super sunny track record at honoring what it tells you it's. Going to

do. So I'm not saying that open AI doesn't honor that, but even if open AI does honor that, which one has to suppose they do, it only takes one engineer tinkering around under the hood to flick a switch accidentally, and your stuff falls through the trap door into the belly of the bees. So you do have to be aware of that as a risk. So I wouldn't be putting my DNA profile into

it, for example. But on the other hand, most people's, and I'm not talking about your donor details, for instance, you know their addresses and their social security numbers and so on. But most people's quote, unquote proprietary information isn't really all that proprietary, right? Like it's not the formula for Coca Cola. So you might in your office to make yourselves all feel very good, be talking about your proprietary processes

and data, and you know, your special source. And I don't mean to diminish that, because I've got my own special source, so I understand that. But does any other copywriter do kind of what I do in the order in which I do it with a yes, they do. So I would be looking for a sensible, rational balance between what is truly holy shit if we accidentally lost that, like our donor list or somebody's social security number or an employee's health information, you know, like no that that's not that's

not cool. But if you're writing fundraising material, for instance, that is not going to be super proprietary. And most of you know, most of my clients, for instance, work in marketing. So you know, fundraising being a form of marketing, obviously what we're writing, what we're working on, is intended ultimately to get out to the public. So the inputs, generally speaking, aren't things that would be disastrous to us if they came out to the public, like, Oh, we don't really give

the money to the children. You know? It's not that, it's not that kind of stuff, right? It's inputs in. Like, we did really good work. We're putting that in. We got great results. We're putting that in. We're having an event on this day we're putting that in, so I would be looking to form a sensible policy on

what is really super secret. What would we be devastated if the newspaper got hold of the fact that we'd drop that into the belly of chatgpt, and what is actually not disastrous if it gets out there and using that so thinking, and once you and then I think you have to be careful, because once you start using chat GPT as a colleague, like really understanding its ability to be your colleague, you will want to put everything into it,

because you will not want to run anything through chat, you know, through your world, without asking chat GPT for its opinion, which I'm I will shut up in one second. Just today, we haven't even talked about putting things into chat GPT and asking it to give you an opinion back, even if it doesn't write say, I bring this. What do you think of that? Sami Bedell-Mulhern: Yeah, well, I think there was a whole trend.

Wasn't there, like, at the end of the year, where people were putting things into chat, GPT, about, like, tell me, tell me who I am, or tell me what my year is going to look like, or tell me what 2025 is going to bring to me. Like, like, there's all those sorts of trends, of things that people kind of create and are surprised by what it spits out. I think the opportunity for it is endless when you start to just play with

it. But I think that's the point you're making, is you just have to kind of start playing with it and kind of staying on top of it. And also, I love that you mentioned earlier, like saving those prompts so that you can reuse them later if it's a repeated task that you're doing, so you don't have to create them over and over. And so I think kind of one of the there's we could we might have to have you back for another episode, because I feel like there's so many other things that we can

talk about. But the other thing that I think people get stuck on is my tone of voice. I don't know how to explain my tone of voice, like, I feel like that's another buzzword that we use all the time, but don't really explain. So could you kind of maybe give people just a quick rundown of if I'm trying to figure out what that is, I know you already mentioned, just starting to have conversations, you know, with with the search,

with the engine, and see what happens. But kind of, how do we start to develop that tone of voice if we don't have one already, tone of voice is a fantastic is a fantastic place to start, because, as I said, chatgpt writes average stuff in a context. So if you give it a really good tone of voice, and by good tone of voice, I mean a description of your tone of voice that's a couple of 100 words long. I don't mean I'm

friendly, thank you. That's my tone. Voice, I'm professional and approachable, so there are a couple of ways to train it, and I actually have a free mini course. It's a five minute video. I call it a mini course because that sounds so impressive, but it's a five minute video that will show you how to create a one way to create a tone of voice, and that way is to take the things that you've already written that you like and feed them through a prompt that asks chat GPT to

divine your tone of voice. And what you could do is take this short course and test. It's a good test of the little write me a tone of voice based on this versus Stephen's prompt, generating a tone of voice, and you'll see the difference between a really good, detailed prompt and a one line, tippity tap prompt. So what I would do as a starting point is gather material you like that is written the way that you want it

to sound, and then use my prompt. Or if you just want to type, tell me the tone of voice of this that that would do it, but it's not going to be as good as my prompt, and it will tell you your tone of voice. And if you don't have anything that's written the way you really want it to sound. Find somebody who writes the way that you want them to write. So let's be honest. In your game, there probably is somebody who does

what you do like you know, none of us is a unicorn, right? So find the organization that you think that your boss is always saying, I really like the way they do it. Oh, they're so good. Their stuff is amazing. They sound incredible. Go and find that and feed that in and say, what is that tone of voice? Because there's no copyright. And I understand some writers will be thinking, oh no, but I'm plagiarizing. I don't want to

plagiarize the other organization. No, you're going to say things in this tone of voice that are your things, your original things. There's no copyright in a tone of voice. If I wanted to go out and sound like Coca Cola sounds or Microsoft sounds or Apple sounds, I can absolutely go out and do that. I can't say I invented the iPhone. That would be a lie. But I could write about my chat GBT courses in the tone of voice of Apple, that would be perfectly legitimate.

So you don't even have to find another organization that does what you do. You might think, you know what I really like the way Apple describes itself, or, you know, I don't a politician that you like, for example, who you think you know they speak really clearly and authoritatively, and I like the way they come across. Will go and find their material, their speeches, and feed those in. And remember that what you get at

the end of this is editable. So you can say, Yeah, okay, you've described that politician, for example, tone of voice in this way. I like that. That's a good description of that person. But we actually want to be softer, or we want to be funnier, or we want to be lighter. You can type that in. You don't have to go, oh God, chat. GPT has given me this. I'm stuck with it. Put it in a Word document and then edit it, and then you've got a tone

of voice prompt that you can use over and over again. So every time you want to write something on behalf of the organization, you just say, hey, chat, GPT, I want you to write this. And this is the tone of voice that I want you to use, and it's game changing for people, because they suddenly see that it's not set in stone how chatgpt writes which, as we know, is bland, as we know, chatgpt loves an emoji. Chatgpt has never met an emoji

it doesn't want to use. Well, if you're fundraising for people in distress or a worthwhile cause, you probably don't want a lot of thumbs up or explosion emojis. So you can say in your tone of voice, please don't use emojis, right? You know, it's that sort of stuff that you can you can weave in. So that's what I would say. Feed things in that you like, and get chatgpt to describe the tone of voice. It is much faster than you trying to describe the tone of voice yourself.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern: I love how easy that is. I will challenge listeners to remove the term what you like. I'm going to just push back on that word specifically, just for a second, because I think a lot of times as copywriters, content creators, or when we live in our world, there's things that we like that maybe don't necessarily resonate with our audiences as much. So take if you're looking for words that you want to pop in, or language that you've already written, I

would take stuff that performs well, what emails got open. The most and clicked on the most, which event email actually got the most clicks through to your website, to where people actually made a purchase? What landing pages on your website

work the best, what social media posts resonated the most? So like your statement was perfect and amazing and like super simplified, I just know so many nonprofits tend to make marketing decisions based off of that one board member that's the loudest in the room, or the one person on the team who is like, you know, oh, well, this is how I use things, so therefore that's how our entire audience uses things. So I like as a

copywriter, for sure. You know what's working well. But I just want to challenge you as listeners, don't just go with what you like, take what Steven said perfectly, but pay attention to the data and use what performs well with your audience so that you don't hit that mark. So I just wanted to kind of throw that well there, so we don't get lost in our personal preferences. I

mean, one thing that I teach people to do that I think would be really useful in this circumstance, because I think we've all met that board member, right? And it could be a board member could be a colleague. There's always somebody who, as you say, is very comfortable saying things like most people, and you're thinking, No, you mean you like

you have no data. Your data is you, most people that, to me, is the reddest of all red flags when somebody tells me what most people think, but what you can do, and this is super advanced and what I'm saying, I just want to give people an idea of the destination to which you can get. If somebody can show you how to get there, is you can create a very detailed picture of your reader using chat GPT, because it knows them then, and this blows people's mind when I when I show them how to do it.

You can run a focus group with those readers. So as an organization, you might have an ideal donor who is this right, but you might have a secondary ideal donor who's maybe not as much, that maybe they don't have as much money, or they're not as philanthropic, or whatever it might be. You can have a panel of them, say, three of them in a room, and you can talk to them, which sounds mad that you can have three avatars in a room, and you can say, Hey, I've written this email. What do you

guys think? I don't write anything now I'm right now. I'm writing a landing page. That's my big project at the moment, a sales page for a product. I'm writing the whole thing in consultation with two ideal readers. So every time I write a paragraph, I put that to them, and they come back to me, and they're different. So they have different agendas, and they will give me feedback, but to your board member, the beauty of a process like that is to be able to say to your board member, I

absolutely get that in your research. You've discovered that most people, but we ran a focus group with our avatars, and we put this to them, and this is how they responded. And I know this sounds mad, but this is academically verified that large language models, which you now having listened to this, will refer to immediately as an LLM. You'll be like, don't say large language models. That's like saying World Wide Web, it's an

LLM. No llms produce valid, insightful and deep answers that are equivalent to the answers that equivalent humans would give. It, as I say, validated by academic research. So you then have, when you're in that board meeting, or you're dealing with that difficult colleague who knows what everybody thinks, you've actually got data that you can go into. So it's not you saying, I think this, and them saying, Well, I think that. And most people think the same as me, you've actually got data.

These are the kinds of things that if you learn how to use chat GPT properly, you can achieve. And a paid chat GPT account is $20 a month. So you can get all these tools that want to, you know, charge you $99 a month to do like, one bit of the puzzle. But if you know how to drive chat GPT, for $20 a month, you can do it all. I Sami Bedell-Mulhern: want to be explicitly clear here, so you're saying that you have you're not doing this focus group with real

humans. You've just got these avatars that are created inside of chat, chat GPT that are consistent, that you have really honed in on. This is exactly who we're talking to, so that you can feed at your content and get real results. Yeah, so it takes you a matter of seconds when you're trying to edit your copy. Oh, it is absolutely phenomenal. So yes, you are right. The academic term for these avatars, so people have

now absorbed large language. Model is LLM. Avatar is a synthetic persona, and they talk about synthetic personas and synthetic data. And yes, you are talking about inside your computer, inside chat, GPT. You are hosting a focus group where you can ask. Thing you want. Because if you got your best donor in the room, you probably wouldn't want to say we're thinking about doing, you know, cutting this program and doing this thing. In case the donor went, That's horrendous. Don't

tell me that. Or I know from not for profit clients that people get terribly involved in how much your admin costs. They always want to know, where is my money going on to the cause or to the paper clip. And you just, I'll be honest with you, because I was on the committee of the RSPCA when I lived in Hong Kong, so animals. And we got that question all the time, and I did. I'm not a violent person, so I'm only meaning

metaphorically. I did want to give the person a little tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, because we employed vets, and they would say that our vets were paid too much. And I would be thinking, so our vets are supposed to take a big, fat pay cut, so essentially, donate 1000s of dollars a year to the to the cause by taking a pay cut, because you think they should be I say, how much of your salary Are you donating every year? Like, do you take a 20% pay cut so you can give? No, you don't

tip. Tap, tap, Tip, tap, Tip, tap, I don't like it. I don't like the argument. But you wouldn't have wanted that donor to come into a room and for you to say, listen, we're about to give our vets a 10% pay rise. What do you think? And for the guy to say, you know, you don't want to you don't want to discuss it. The beauty of having a synthetic persona is you can ask it anything you want and it will give you a valid answer, but you're also not affecting the genuine relationship with a

genuine donor. So you can do all kinds of research with these synthetic personas without worrying like, let's say you wanted to change the name of your organization, where you might not decide to do it, so you might not want to discuss with donors that we're thinking about grabbing ourselves this, and the donors don't like it, or they do like it, and then you ultimately decide you don't want to do it, and they're like, Oh,

but I told you, most people would love it. So you can do all kinds of things with these synthetic personas, with safety, because when you know, particularly, I think, in a not for profit, life is not safe a lot of the time, so the more safe you can and you know you don't necessarily want to be bold, unless you're sure that it's going to work, or to change things, unless You're sure that it's going to be accepted. And this can give you a level of confidence, because chat GPT

again when you know how to do it, can run the world. Can run these things for you in an incredible way, and, as I say, completely validated. Sami Bedell-Mulhern: There's such a I would have never thought to use it that way, but that's so smart, especially for smaller teams. As you're brainstorming and working through things before you kind of have to make those decisions or do things that are going to reflect on your donors or make them scared or skittish or your board members. So I think that's

wonderful and such a great place to kind of wrap this up. I mean, we could talk. I mean, we've barely scratched the surface of what can happen within chatgpt, but I hope this episode has really encouraged you to jump in and try it and see what happens, and see how it can support you in all of these different ways. Steven, I know you mentioned you've got a free resource, so we'll make sure to get that linked up in the show notes

here. But if people want to connect with you and learn more about how you support organizations and how to connect with you. How can they do that? The agency that I run is called Taleist. Tale as in telling tales, because we're storytellers, ultimately, so it's T, a, l, e, i s, t, dot agency, and there's lots of details about how we work there, and also my email

address, or there are email addresses all over the site. So you can get in touch and ask what, what we can do with chat GPT, or what courses we have that would level you up in I mean, just a little plug for the course. I get an email every day from people who take we have a course called make chat GPT your CMO. I've run a lot of courses in my life. People have never used the words life changing as often as they have for this. And the reason people find it life changing, and so I'm not

plugging the course. I'm plugging learning how to use chat. GPT, the reason I find it life changing is because people are tired and having an always on energetic, intelligent colleague to bounce ideas off and to give you insights and to show you new ideas, or why something might not have worked as well as you hoped. It's just breathing new life into lots of people I know who are beaten down by circumstances externally or how tough their job is. Suddenly, they've got a

colleague to work with for $20 a month. It's an incredible boost. Sami Bedell-Mulhern: I love that. Well, we will have all of that linked up in the show notes at thefirstclick.net/296, Thanks, Steven. Thank you so much for all your time and your insights and strategies today. It was amazing. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Sami Bedell-Mulhern: Okay, so if you haven't, in the middle of this episode, already gone to make sure you have a chat GPT account or checked out your tools with your favorite AI elements, I don't know what you're waiting for. I loved this episode so much, and it was such a great way to really think about how we are using these tools to supplement our business, not to take over, but just to help us get more done

with less time. Now, again, if you want to check out the show notes and additional resources that Steven talked about and check out the freebie that he mentioned so that you can get your prompts going for your ideal customer, you can go to thefirstclick.net/296, for now, I hope you will subscribe wherever you're listening, and if you're on YouTube, leave us a comment about your favorite key takeaway from this episode.

Otherwise, if you are on Apple podcast, we would love a review that really helps us get this podcast in front of more people. Episodes come out every single week, and we are so excited to be here. And thank you for taking the time to listen to the digital marketing therapy podcast. I will see you in the next one.