Episode 7 - Does Anyone Know That Chicken?

Hey guys, it's future Tim. And future Whitney. And we just wanted to reach back in time and address something real quick. Do it. We've seen our numbers go up and we've had a lot of new listeners to the pod recently. Now, when we first started this, we've never done anything like this before. Not remotely. No, we've never recorded anything. I was a musician in school, but I never recorded anything. So we started with some very...

cheap, entry-level equipment. Bad equipment and inexperience. Absolutely. So I bought Whitney this, like, sound... podcast deck years ago for christmas um and it sat in our closet for years went through a house move we came here we finally started using it and realized

this thing don't work so good this ain't gonna work no no it was real bad so we just wanted to reach back in time to anyone who's joining us for the first kind of chunk of episodes and just let you know we know that our audio is a is rough we get it No, we're painfully aware. Painfully aware, and we look back so embarrassed at it. But we stick behind our content. Yes, I do.

I feel like our content is great. So all we're saying is we hit our stride probably a few episodes into the pod. So just stick with us. Yeah, just, you know. Stick with us through the growing pains. I promise it gets better. And this was actually a huge moment of growth for me to jump into something without mindfucking it to death and not being totally prepared and whatever. So I just appreciate.

If you guys do stick with it, because, you know, there's something to be said about being one of those people that you're like, I was there for the beginning when it sounded like two different volumes in a fucking tin can. And then really bad Spotify tags. Yeah. Just stick with us. We promise you we feel like we stick behind our content and we hope you guys love it too. So we'll hit our stride.

Hey guys, it's even farther in the future, Tim. By like 45 seconds. Yep. I told Tim, I said, I want to say something. So when we were recording this, I had to stop about four times because I kept saying we've had a lot of new users. And I was like, listeners. Listeners.

I'm like a bad actor on like a movie or a commercial or something. It made me think of Joey and how he kept saying, mmm, noodle soup. And they're like, damn it. So Tim was noodle souping through that whole thing. And I was like, do we need a script? But anyways, I think we made it through it. That's all I wanted to say. Thanks users.

from arkansas no all right episode seven another week another episode, another opportunity to snark on some culty weirdos. Love that snark. So I'm Whitney, long time cringe watcher turned snarker. And I'm Tim. I was never interested in the Duggars at all. I always thought they were kind of creepy.

So now that we're kind of doing this dive into them and how they started and things that are going on, now I'm confirming that they're creepy. Yes, confirmation. And, you know, I'm just making him come along for the ride, but you enjoy it, right? It's fascinating. I think it's a look at television at the time. I also feel like it's a look at a really weird kind of essentially a subculture. Oh, totally. Yeah.

You know, because obviously they're not the only ones that live this way. They're just the loudest or the most public. Exactly.

So this episode is episode two of when they got their actual show. So we're on to 17 kids and counting. And this episode is entitled Duggars Do New York. It's the... kind of follow-up sequel to last week's episode ironically like we said before they aired them the same night it should have just been one one hour episode but whatever who are we to tell TLC what to do I guess

Now, can I ask you a question? And obviously, I'm going to see this as we watch more. So this episode starts pretty much where the last one completely stopped. Does that continue? Or are they kind of standalone? They're more so standalone. This is kind of an anomaly, like a weird... point in time where they are doing this because of the half half hour episodes they they're pretty much standalone going forward with the one hour format

Okay. Unless there's like a big event that might take over multiple episodes. But for the most part, they're kind of like their own topic. Okay. So this is a little different. Interesting. All right. So Duggars do New York. It picks up exactly where we left off with the last one.

They were shoving 17 people into three cabs. How many of that one lady, how many cabs do they need? Yeah, right? And she's like, they're trying to get 17 people in one cab. It's like, no, it ended up being three. The way she said it was so funny.

but it kind of starts off with Jill says something about you know being in New York City and seeing all walks of life and she says it's really interesting because I'm like this probably really is like a big culture shock for them very much if you're from you know springdale or actually they're technically like tawny town arkansas from pigs knuckle arkansas uh this has got to be quite the experience and then i did think it was hilarious because not even knowing this

jill did specifically refer to like we're talking about those girls saying they look like they were amish in the last episode so jill says and i quote people think we're amish and it's like okay you must not know very much about amish people So I thought that was pretty funny coming from like Jill. It seemed like more of a normal thing to say, you know, kind of funny. So they go to Times Square and I just thought it was such a...

you know, like a glimpse in time, like on the screens was billabong. Did you see that? No, that's so 2007, 2008. So I thought that was hilarious. And then Michelle gives her cab driver one of those pictures of the family. Like in that scene.

You know, the last one kind of ended with them getting in the cab and then this one kind of started with them getting out of the cab. I did think it was a funny thing because Jim Bob was talking to one of the cab drivers and then when he had like taken all the family out. Oh, yes, yes, yes. He goes, wow, good to see an honest cab driver. So do you think all cab drivers like.

Yeah, like everyone in the big city is going to try to murder you or hurt you or steal your money. Take your money, yeah. Right. The vast majority of them are dishonest. Yeah, it was funny. It's like it's good to see an honest one because they're all so dishonest, yeah. and then it was okay I will say Josiah um I told you that like he's kind of like I remember thinking he was my favorite okay

And then now rewatching, I'm like, oh yeah, I do remember like why I thought that. But it'll be kind of funny to kind of go in it with the bias of kind of being like, he's my favorite. Like I'm going into this a little bit like skewed, right? Okay. But it is kind of funny. Did you notice that Josiah does so many of the talking? heads he does yeah he does a lot and it's like he's really like on the low end age of the middle

It's funny when you have that many kids, there's like all these different age ranges, but he's like lower middle. Okay. So then there's a million other like older kids that could have more talking head camera time. But they give so much of it to Josiah. But I'm like, it's exactly why I like him. He actually has personality. And he was the one that only wanted a place to hide.

Right. Yes. Only wanted a place to hide. He was the one that was like, well, let me tell you about how my story about like sleeping in the RV and stuff. So I thought I feel like he like he tells he. doesn't have a filter but in a charmingly way exactly like he's still definitely not like going out there and like burning the place to the ground with his opinions but he is definitely more opinionated and just like more outspoken more personality because if you think about it

Like, of the older kids, they could be interviewing, like, John, David, or Joe, but it's like, neither one of them have a personality. You mean pickles? Liking pickles is not a personality is what you're saying. So they have Josiah doing so much of this. So anyways, that was kind of a side tangent. But Josiah talks about how since they've been on TV, you know.

they don't own a tv i'm sorry i said that wrong they don't own a tv so he was saying that being in times square it was funny to see so many screens right so he specifically pointed out like damn i've never seen this many screens in my life And then Jim Bob adds some sort of like, you know, they might some of the ads might have something a little raunchy, but that they just teach their kids to ignore them and enjoy the experience. I I hit pause.

when they were kind of showing the B-roll of them in Times Square when they had the voiceover of Lego Hair saying that some of the ads were a little raunchy. And when I hit pause right behind him... was arguably the raunchiest of them all it was mr peanut oh that mr peanut doesn't wear clothes he's naked yeah and there's a hat so obviously there's some semblance of like propriety

But it doesn't include putting clothes on your naked peanut body. Yeah, so raunchy. Then the next scene, the producer... producer is like asking them in their little talking heads what would you say to people who say you're overprotected and jessa says uh get over it and she says i don't think we're overprotected but again it kind of just is like

Remember I told you she's kind of more widely known as kind of like the bitchy sister, like the bitchy Christian sister. So just funny. Like now I'm going to be pointing out all the times where it's like, oh, girl, Jess is getting a little spicy. She says, get over it.

So then this weird guy on the streets asks for a picture. And did you, did you think it was weird what he said? He says, they're friendly, beautiful, and photogenic. And that he can't say enough good things about Arkansas now.

Yeah, the state thing was very funny because it's like they are obviously the representation of the entire state. Now he just cannot say enough good things about this entire state because of this one family. And I would just like telling someone, oh, it's like a photogenic family. Just like.

an odd choice of beautiful photogenic and you know they're really representing arkansas well and he wasn't like in the theorial like art guy like what was the what was the weird like crackhead that they saw at the like lbk

Yeah, that dude was on a multitude of substances. This was just, like, a nice, like, man. In a, like, suit or something. Yeah, he was in, like, a sport coat with a collared shirt and then, like, a Yankees hat. And he's, like, had just, like... snapping pictures like he's paparazzi it was an interesting uh scene yeah so then they're still in times square and they're like standing on the sidewalk and then all of a sudden michelle goes

And then everybody wave. It's a policeman. A policeman. And were you going to say something? I just, there was multiple things during this cop interaction that I kind of. Thought were interesting. Well, I'm going to go off on a tangent for a second, if you don't mind. Go ahead. I thought it was funny that she said policeman. Because I would say policeman.

And later on, later on, Jim Bob says policeman. And the reason I bring this up is because Tim and I argue about the pronunciation of these types of words. Would you like to tell them how I say things? So it came up because we were talking about the old Sony like handheld thing for you to listen to cassette tapes. I want the world right now to pause and think in their head of how they would pronounce.

pronounce that. It's a Sony. Plays CDs. How would you say that? Say it to yourself quietly wherever you are. Scream into your AirPods. I say Discman. Tim, what do you say? I say Discman. And if you go back to the era that I grew up on, it was the Walkman. But we always make the joke. We reference friends when they're like...

Talking about Spider-Man. And one of them says Spider-Man. And it's like, it's not a last name. He's not Phil Spider-Man. But to that I say, Ottoman. You don't say Ottoman. It's an Ottoman. But there's no hyphen in there. And how many people say fireman? I'm not saying it's wrong to say fireman or policeman, but how many people say fireman and policeman? They say policeman. I say fireman. No, you don't. Yes, I do. I don't say fireman.

Fireman. Call the fireman. There's no A in that last syllable. It's just fireman. Okay, anyways, we're going to take a poll on this later in the week. This is a side thing, but I just had to bring it up because he gives me so much shit. Every time anything has M-A-N at the end, he's all, how do you say that? Phil Spiderman. Anyways, side tangent. So now I've got to see where I was. So the cops. The one thing that I was going to say was Lego Hair made a comment about how, you know, he...

He thought the big city was going to be dangerous, but it felt really safe. There were cops everywhere. And I think you're probably thinking the same thing I'm thinking. If they weren't like...

There's two things. If they weren't a giant white family, they'd probably feel different. They're like, we're so scared. Right. I feel like you take somebody else of another, like... ethnic background and they'd be like god damn it there's cops everywhere without even doing anything wrong you know but then i also brought up once again that's also the thing that um

Like they have all this, an entire camera crew with them. Yeah. Like anybody's going to come up and do something. I'm sorry. But like, like anybody's going to come up and do something right now. Yeah. There's going to be just like mass crime laid out right in front of this camera crew right now. Ugh, so stupid. But I will say, again with my homie Josiah.

he's talking about this moment because after the police they're just like there's kind of like a crowd of people around them and michelle's like signing her little postcards oh yeah like they're dig see i will so i didn't like when they give the postcards to like their drivers like they did last episode

and then this one I feel like it's a little bit different when they handed it to the policemen because they actively came they actively came up to them and like were like engaging them on their own and so I feel like okay like for like a fan type thing, I guess it's one thing. But then I also go, it's kind of weird that they think of themselves as like celebrities when they haven't, their show hasn't really aired yet. Yeah.

kind of I don't know the whole thing's kind of weird but so they're getting all this attention and my homie Josiah talks about how you know they get a lot of it and especially Michelle and he says and quote She's really the one. If it wasn't for her, I would be a nobody, basically. Little Josiah. I'd be a nobody. I mean, it's really her. It's really her that, you know, birth... She's the talent, you know? You know, right? They're all just like the backup singers to Michelle.

So then after that, it goes to the next day is when they're appearing on the Today Show on the Friday before Mother's Day. So it's early the next morning, just kind of shows them getting ready in the hotel room, eating breakfast. And I just got to say, Michelle's, Michelle's hairdo was a choice. She had this like puffy side pony. And it looks like she's got like a Maine Coon cat just like resting on her shoulder. I was like, damn, Michelle, that's quite a choice of hair.

Now, do you know, obviously they talk about countenance and how like that. dictates why they dress that way is there anything they have when it comes like any rules they have when it comes to uh like makeup the way you do your hair like does it go to that too or no um i i wouldn't say rules

but there are certain preferences that are a little creepy enough that I, sorry if you wanted the answer now, but I think it's worth talking about in a future episode on its own thing. If you don't mind, is that all right? Is that all right? I know. I know. There's just so much material. I have to try to be like, oh, I think we can save that for later. But yes. I think I just got more at 11. Right. You did. On the local news. Yep. They'll be like.

This common household item that you touch every day could give you cancer. More at 11. Exactly. More about hair and makeup later. so after they they're done getting ready they get picked up they get taken over to where they're filming to today's show it's like super early and they have them waiting in this like lobby area and they're just kind of hanging out waiting

in between like the little moments where they're like everybody wave you know how like when it's like upcoming segments where they just like kind of show you for a split second they were in like the employee cafeteria i was like i was not expecting that's where they the today show would put their guests yeah they didn't look like

a green room it looked like they were like right outside the cafeteria yes it was really odd and like this weird like metal chair it was weird yeah but again my homie josiah they really rely on you know what he's carrying this entire show i realized at this point But my homie Josiah says, he goes, first of all, first all we did was a little waiting and then a little more waiting.

And then we waited some more. I mean, he was like salty about the waiting, but I am so here for it. And I'm like, you say it. Say it, Josiah. And then they kind of do like a little. another one of their little promos of them like lined up on this big staircase and then Meredith from the Today Show comes walking down it yada yada and then after they're done doing that take

She there's a specific moment where they show her going up and shaking Josh's hand. And she goes, Josh, Josh. Right. And all I could think of was like, oh, honey, you're going to know in the future. You're going to know. Way more. And you're going to be reporting on him. It's just funny to see these moments where you're like, nobody even knew. Right.

So then their segment starts, and they really don't show a ton of it. It's pretty quick again. But go figure. Michelle announces she's pregnant with number 18, because if you remember from last episode, they were keeping it a secret from the kids. Yep. And of course the kids all act surprised, but like how surprised are they really? I mean, like at that point, are you surprised? But Meredith specifically like leans over and is like talking to Josh.

and asks if he's in shock or if it's kind of like whatever and he totally plays up this whole like acting shocked like bit yeah and he even like he does like the cliche like oh if i clear my throat I sound really shocked. So he goes, that's a huge shock. I wasn't expecting that. It's like, you're the first. of now 18 i don't i don't think you're really that shocked but like he thought he had some like good acting performance going on right there

And then he follows it up with... It's so gross. He follows it up with... Well, it has been nine months, though. So, yeah. And it's so gross that this whole family is just like... Obsessed with... kids coming out of their mother oh it's just nasty and it's just like well you're like well you know they've done it after they've had their 80 days so like plenty of time like that that 80th day is uh earplug day in the house

The kids. It's marked on the calendar. Like, the kids have to fend for themselves more than they already do. Everybody's eating cereal that day. Oh, man. So then Jill says that everyone is happy and says that you'd think they'd be like, oh, another kid, which is exactly, that's exactly what we're thinking, Jill. But that they like picking out the names and figuring out who the buddy is going to be. Yeah.

And I'm like, listen, you guys are raising these kids. The least Jim Bob and Michelle could do for you is include you in the naming of them, first of all. Second of all, I'm like, do you think with the buddy system, it's like a giant game of like, not it? I already have a couple littles. Not it. One of the things they kept during this part with Michelle's voiceover, they kept showing the kids.

And I was very intently watching like all of their facial expressions. And most of them look, you know, surprised in a happy way. A couple of the Lost Boys weren't paying attention. Because they're lost. Which I thought was hilarious. Like, they had something in their hand, like a toy or a flower or like something. All of them had like the same thing in their hands. And there was two of them that like...

One of them was just playing with it. And then the other one was just kind of staring off to space, like in the side, you know, so. But Jana multiple times. just looked very analytical and quiet. Uh-huh. She's like, God, another kid for me to take care of. That's what it felt like, yeah.

Because they showed her in like multiple times. She's like, you know, looking at Meredith and looking at like Lego hair. And then, you know, it's like her looking in multiple places. And the whole time she's just kind of like. analyzing and i thought that was interesting i think she is i think she's he's obviously she's quiet and i think she is the one that is like processing things at all times right so um they're leaving but they get stuck in the airport due to weather

And so they're just kind of like waiting around. And then all of a sudden, not Jim Bob or Michelle, but Scott, the cameraman, hears an announcement over the loudspeaker asking if anybody is missing a little boy named Jackson. Yep. And then I think it's really funny because Jim Bob is like going to, I guess, you know, find him and he's completely smiling and like kind of laughing as a cameraman is asking him like, what's going on?

And Jim Bob says, quote, I don't know. I think Jackson took a wrong turn coming back from the restroom. I don't know. We'll have to see if he's lost or found. And he's like laughing. And. Now did it. Did it feel like nervous laughter? Because it didn't feel like nervous laughter. Because, like, you know, I feel like there's certain people, if they were dealing with that situation, I question them, and they would kind of do that to break the tension of, like, losing a child.

I feel like that was the TV persona. I think, yeah, it's part of the show. It's completely part of it. So part of me is like, okay, if they're being announced over the loudspeaker, you do know that they're okay. But I still feel like in a parent, you should still be feeling that panic. And I thought it was really funny because... um number one why was he alone going to the bathroom he's fucking four years old tim jackson was born on the first special

so i did i looked it up his birthdates this was all happening the weekend of like may 11th right his birthday is may 23rd okay in 2004 and this is in 2008 he's four fucking years old why the fuck is he at the bathroom alone Where was his buddy? Where was his buddy? I guess that buddy says, you know, it's like, but like.

they shouldn't be having to watch all their siblings all the damn time. So your buddy system fails, and I'm not blaming the buddy, but I just think it's so interesting. Especially because these kids haven't, like... been to the airport before they haven't they're in a completely new situation and then the talking head jim bob says that oh i went running to the other end meanwhile there was no running to be seen

Not remotely. Not at all. No. Not even a jog? No, not even a light jog. Like, you ever watch somebody walking and they're like panic walking, but they're trying not to run? So their arms are all like... None of that. Super straight. Fucking none of it. He was waltzing, if I dare say. Surprised he didn't stop in one of the gift shops. For real.

And then so he gets to the other end and apparently they say, oh, no, he's already been like taken back over to your gate or whatever. So then again, in like the voiceover. it says that he hurried to the other end and the camera footage that they're showing is him fucking just waltzing along talking on his cell phone. So I felt like this is where people talk about TLC being like the OG snarkers. I love that they paired up like I was hurrying and everything with him.

him just like fucking walking like they have the receipts homie you weren't running you know like this is like the ultimate like my like the ultimate lollygagging if lollygagging was like he's the definition of lollygagging right now You can't even work up a saunter. Not even. Because they were in the airport and because they obviously lost a kid, I just wrote down Home Alone. And the thing I kept thinking was, would they even notice?

No. They probably wouldn't have even noticed if they would have gone to there and it would have been Home Alone again. And it would have been, which one got lost? Jackson. So it would have been like Jackson in the airport going to the Trump Hotel or something. You know what I mean? And they were coming from New York. It's perfect. So then when they show Jim Bob getting back to where the family was, like, sitting and waiting, Jackson is looking sad.

and upset like he's been crying as he would be you know scared shitless right you're four years old go fucking figure he's sitting in janna's lap Not Michelle. Michelle is nowhere to be seen. She's not even in camera. She's not even in the shot. No. And, you know, it really just goes to show how much the kids don't find their comfort, their source of comfort and safety does not come from Michelle.

And, you know, back in the day, this would have just be a scene that you'd watch and like you'd move on. But now it all means so much more. So you're like, once again, their safety, their comfort comes from Jana. Right. And I'm not really sure I should have looked before. She may be his buddy. I'm not sure. But overall, the picture is they find more comfort in their siblings than their parents. Correct. Because they can't count on them. Yeah, it's parentification.

oh to the max like oh my god that'll be a whole other episode we do i swear to god but then jim bob goes on to say that you know you could lose even with one or two children you could lose one so quote he hopes that parents out there understand that with 17 your odds are greater that you will lose one so that was like the total like PR statement of like let's move this over I just lost my kid oh yeah I didn't run at all

That's like giving people the, you know, your percentage of drowning goes up if you install a pool at your house. So, like, I definitely, he's, it's true.

anybody could lose their kid things happen and there's no judgment in that but it's like with them you don't really you don't give them the same grace because you've done this to yourselves and you've created this situation so it's just different than like an average parent shit happens i get it but yeah they take it to a whole different level so

they don't show them flying at all it just shows them suddenly being back at the house and they talked about how they're all so tired that they just crashed and there's this horrific scene of josh like they're like zooming in on josh asleep on the couch and it's disgusting Like I didn't need to see him or the floral pattern on their sofa. It was both. That looks like my church, like growing up my church, but the one in the lobby.

but yeah they just like zoom in on his nasty face and like he's of course he's wearing like crocs and yeah Then Jim Bob comes and goes, I think you're a little too big for me to carry you. And like tries to like pick them up and it's gross and awkward and ugh. But it's because they're packing up now to get in their bus to go to Springdale or no, no, no. I'm sorry. I said.

Little Rock. Springdale is the other one. So they're going to Little Rock because now Michelle is being honored at the Peabody Hotel. And it's a three-hour trip. So they're driving it. And did you see what an upgrade on their bus they have? Oh, yeah. Before they had old like trusty or rusty. I forget the name old rusty. I think was their old.

crappy like rv and now they have like a legit like tour bus that they bought from a hockey team oh yeah feels like i'm watching almost famous yeah it was actually it's actually pretty sweet yeah so while they're driving there's a questionable scene where they stop for gas and there's a chicken and jim bob is like chasing this chicken and this is just to paint a picture here it's not like

They stopped at a shell station and got out. This is like when you're driving interstate in the back area where you refuel big rigs and buses. So they're not in a heavily... like trafficked area it's kind of just the drivers you know fill in their trucks but uh yeah he was literally running around chasing a chicken yep

And I was in my head going like, what the fuck is he going to do when he gets the chicken? And then he even said himself, oh, well, he didn't catch it. But he even says like, well, I wasn't really sure what I was going to do if I caught it. So like, it's OK. But I was like, he's just like chasing a chicken. Yeah, it was just an awkward like.

20 seconds of watching a Target employee with Lego hair chase a chicken in the back area of a gas station. I really hope, and, you know, obviously we've... talked about kind of guests on this podcast i really hope we can get that chicken on the podcast one day i just think about the behind the scenes stuff that you're gonna get like what do you know about josh

Oh, that'd be great. Yeah. So reach out to us if you're listening. If anybody knows that chicken, if you can maybe get us in contact, you know, we would love to hear from you. Yeah, we can do it over Zoom. No biggie. Anyways, so they get there and they get to the Peabody Hotel and it's this whole duck thing.

The ducks parade in and out, and then they have a red carpet for them. They go into the fountain at 11 a.m., and then they take them back at 5 p.m. They're trained to go in and out of this fountain. Michelle is named like the honorary duck master that day. I don't have a ton else to say about that. Do you have anything to say about it? It was just like charmingly cute.

It felt like a window into a previous era of the hotel, not the family. Yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, they're definitely a window into another era. Yeah, right. Like Little House on the Prairie. No, I thought it was cute. They have like. The real Duck Master puts them in this little dolly that has a wooden cage on it. So the ducks have this room.

somewhere and the guy like rolls the cage up to it and all the ducks climb in and then he like wheels that down and you know they they undo this uh red carpet and then they open it up and the ducks just like walk and there's like little stairs and stuff it's just It feels very cute of, like, an old window of, like, Americana. Yeah, and it's, like, this is a tradition they started in, like, the 1930s or something like that. So, yeah. Long story short, it started, they said it was kind of a prank.

uh there was some uh the family that owned the hotel or something tried to go like duck hunting and it wasn't like good and yeah so yeah so they just had them and then after that people liked it so much and it made like you know

made waves and so they're like oh we're gonna make this a whole thing so then they got them trained and it's this whole spiel yep they live on live in the hotel and stuff and then they got to eat a buffet breakfast that everybody seemed pumped about yep and that was about it the only comment i had about that last part was

There's something – and this is me. I used to work at a casino buffet. I've been involved in, like, high-end catering and banquets and stuff for a long time. But I always – laugh when people feel self-conscious at a buffet with how much food they put on their plate. Because even to the employees, nobody gives a shit. Yeah. They'll be like, I'm eating for two or they'll grab something. I remember when I worked at the casino, people would come to the buffet and grab like.

seven crab rangoons out of our little like stir fry area and then they'd be like i would just look at them hi there how are you And they'd be like, I'm getting some for somebody at my table too. I'm like, lady, I don't give a shit. I really don't care. Michelle looked at the camera and she's like, nobody gives a shit. Like really they don't. Yeah.

No, I'm more worried about you eating all of it rather than you getting a lot of it. Exactly. Like, please just don't leave half of it on your plate. Yeah. That's my only thing. Just food waste. So. All right. That sums it up for me. How about you? That's it. I definitely thought that there was a lot of stuff in this episode. The last one seemed a little bit bare bones, but this one filled...

I almost was like, for a second, I looked at my watch and I'm like, was this one an hour? Because as I was writing and pausing, I was like, oh, I have more content than I was expecting. So yeah, it had a little bit more to it. Yeah. So overall, pretty good. I think we are going to take one tiny little break and we'll be right back and get into. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online.

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Okay, so this week's Deep Dive kind of does the same thing as last episode where we're... really focusing on what was going on behind the scenes back between those two, the last two specials, which were On the Road with 16 Children and Big Family Album. So last week it was... December 2006 with the whole police, you know, interview report thing, all that, all those shenanigans. Today we're focusing on some stuff that was happening in May of 2007. So back in the day.

There was a website called Television Without Pity. And it was around from like 1998 to 2014. And it was a website where people did recaps of shows. And I guess it was sort of snarky in nature. So like us, it was basically just like a forum type.

uh setting and it had discussion boards and Duggars was one of the topics so it's just kind of funny because it's so 2007 of that time we're now to talk about something you had to go on discussion boards you had to go on like forums and things to get now it's just so easy it's in it's on reddit number one but also just like in the comment sections of social media like it's just everywhere so it's just so funny how

then you're so specifically had to seek these these things out yeah you had to like find your community so back in may of 2007 uh there were there were just recap of an episode and whatnot and there was this comment in the comment section that came from it's it says Alice and You know, sometimes I just kind of give a summary of things and then other times I give summaries where I just give some direct quotes when I feel like it's, you know, needed.

But honestly, I am going to read these verbatim because I feel like it's actually very important to get the overall tone and really the whole thing. Now, let me ask ahead of time, do we know who Alice was? You're getting a little head there, Tim. So it's not Alice. You mean it's alias? Yeah, there you go. So Alice says on May 22nd. 2007 at 7.30pm 7.03pm if you like those details.

And it starts off saying to Ruth. It was obviously responding to a comment that was very complimentary of the family. There were some comments that were like, oh, they're a great family. When you read them now, you're like, oh, that aged badly. They're beautiful and photogenic. Those comments age like a Duggar male, i.e. very badly. But she says to Ruth, let me tell you something about the precious Duggars that you don't know.

oh man exactly that's why i was like i have to read these like there's no other way to like there's a lot of mustard on that's the first sentence first michelle hasn't bathed her younger children in years It is all left up to the older children. They have children that have never seen the inside of a grocery store. Everything that you've seen on TV is staged. Big time.

Michelle hasn't cooked a meal in years, which is funny because that's where we said we know Michelle. Yeah. Alice is part of the We Know Michelle Club. We'll get her a jacket. Right? We need them. Hasn't cleaned the house in years. All she does is try to look normal for the TV cameras. Get real. This couple is out for the fame and the money that they...

They receive, quote, love offering from all over the country. They have church services in their home when it is to their advantage. They get paid for that. He and his mother, Mary, which is Grandma Duggar, who you kind of saw in the last, you know, traveling with them. Correct. Has this all figured out. She is fame hungry and she couldn't manage this for herself. And now she's helping out Jim, Bob and Michelle.

She calls different TV shows and exploits her grandchildren. This is the Duggar way of making a living and providing for the huge family. Fame and fortune in January. The whole family went to Chicago. Anyways, sometimes it doesn't make sense. Sorry. The whole family went to Chicago and taped Oprah Winfrey's show. Oprah wined and dimed them for one week. What's hard is sometimes when there's spelling mistakes, I read the mistake.

for one week you know that had to cost some pretty pennies as you may have noticed that show never aired and it never will which is of course was our last deep dive correct oprah was informed that josh the oldest son had been molesting his sisters Yes, this is the truth. Oprah turned them over to the Arkansas State Police Child Protection Agency and the Washington County Child Protection Agency. They have been investigated to some length.

Jim Bob Duggar told the producers of the show that he built a small church out back for his followers. The next things are in all caps, so you know it's serious, right? His followers get real. The man is a fraud. This is why I had to read it. In April, they were in court with their history, with their story. They have to report to the Arkansas Department of Human Services every six months.

They have lied and lied about their son to protect him at their daughter's expense. For some unknown reason, the boy is still in the home with the girls. God only knows. I'm sorry. God only knows if this is still going on. In my eyes, he is a all caps child molester. Still caps, he should be removed from the home.

What kind of parents cover up for one child and hurt the others? I do not believe that this is what God has in mind for them. Frauding the American people and taking their money and living off of it. Oh, man, that one's a little melodramatic. They did not build their home themselves. They hired it done. The Discovery Health Channel and the TLC Channel wrote them a check for over $200,000 for them to build the house.

Everything inside the house was given to them except the kitchen. They did buy that themselves. That was the 11K versus 100,000. Right. The rest is all free. Mary and Josh were on the phone day and night asking for donations. from soup to computers. They also received a baby grand piano from Campbell's Soup Company.

The trip to California was also provided by the TV stations. It was mapped out mile for mile. I'm like, which we'll get into that later. They did not spend a penny of their own money. All the groceries and gas and lodging and clothing was paid for in advance. For someone who wants to be famous, why lie about the facts? Seems funny to me. They are professional liars, both of them. They twist their words to make them look good and look like devoted parents and a great big happy family.

nothing could be further from the truth damn If you don't believe me, contact the Arkansas State Police Child Protection Agency in Bentonville, Arkansas, and the Washington County Child Protection Agency in Fayetteville. It will be worth the time and effort to read all about it.

There is a lot more that I could go into, but I simply do not have that much time. I think that it is time the Duggars are stopped. They are pimping out their family for material things to keep them fed and clothed. If they cannot feed and clothe their children...

don't have them so your take on that it was hot coming hot yeah I definitely feel like it was the early days of like melodramatic snark online. I feel like these days you see that kind of energy.

more normally just because everyone's commenting on things and you know what I mean the parts okay all of it like I love that they're outing their hip you know talking about covering up for josh and all that now when it comes down to the parts about the show and like oh why cover it up if they cover i feel like now people know oh yeah they didn't pay for that trip themselves it was early days of like any form of reality right so i think that this person thought that was

big out nobody would think anything of that now because it's like of course if you're on a network they're paying for that shit so nobody I don't think that that was like the big like you know tell all but for the time maybe but definitely not now but you know what i'm getting out of this is

just coming in hot right but you're like who is this person so the people in the comments are saying basically there's a lot of like leg humpers that are already there talking like good stuff about the Duggars which is why she's replying to Ruth apparently who said something nice about them

fucking rude so so they but kind of understandably so not on the leg humping side but just understandably some people were like whoa these are some big things to say right like and you're just an anonymous person on the internet So there were people that were kind of like, you're just kind of like saying a lot of stuff, which I do understand because it's like that's some those are some big things. So that first comment was made on May 22nd. Right. OK.

Alice makes sure to come back on May 24th at 3.05 p.m. this time. She said, people, trust me or not. I know this for a fact God's honest truth that the molestation happened it happened to four of his five sisters the oldest daughter was not touched The second daughter is the one who caught him doing this. There was no rape involved but molested. I could go into detail, but I won't. Of course, you can find nothing about the charges. The Duggars want to keep this hid, wouldn't you?

They wouldn't have the things they do if it had gotten out earlier. That's the way that they make their living and travel at the expense of others. Jim, Bob, and Michelle are very aware of this happening and have chosen to protect Josh over his sisters.

The family is to report to DHS every six months and that the girls are in counseling. That is what the courts ordered. Jim, Bob, and Michelle both tried to lie their way out of this, but it didn't happen. Just ask them, but they will just lie about it. They call their son Precious Josh, and in their eyes, he can do no wrong. What about the girls? I think that everyone should know about this problem and that the Duggars are frauds. They make the talk shows under...

the impressions that they are pure and they receive love offerings from the viewers. He's got it figured out how to be famous and make a living for his brood and not have to work to get it. So personally, I don't know about you, I care less about all the working stuff or whatever, but I like the pointing out of the hypocrisy of it. Correct. And I love that this person is advocating for the girls. Yeah.

Actively saying you are choosing Josh over all the victims. Correct. And so... yeah i just like this is it's very bold it is very and you know from but i feel like you can read this and a lot of people might want to write it off as like hearsay or like whatever yeah but to me this person sounds in the know

to me you know do you think so or like how do you take it i think we have the benefit of hindsight where like you know yeah that's true like a lot of these things you're like yeah absolutely at the time There was a 50-50 chance whether they knew what they were talking about. Yeah. So, you know, I think at the time you were voting on whether you liked the Duggars or not.

And I think now in hindsight, now we can be like, well, there was credence because these things were true, you know, regardless of whether it's wrapped up with like a snarky, you know, depiction of like their business practices. you know now we can look and say yeah it was it was kind of true but it's kind of funny because

People could chalk it up to the same way in Josh's trial and with their like, you know, later on after he was convicted, them saying like, oh, he's just this poor Christian man that's been like, oh, you know, people are just coming after him because he's just like, you know, man of God. I feel like a lot of people.

If they are fans are reading this like you're just attacking this poor, you know, godly family. It's easy to write it off because then it's just like, oh, well, you know, all these people, these worldly people just attacking them. Yeah. So she doesn't end there.

That was May 24th, right? Okay. She comes back again May 25th. Alias is back. Alias. Well, Robert, and Robert was one who was really being like... you got to kind of come with facts type thing like you're saying a lot of stuff like you know can you give anything like they were like at first they seemed a little defensive and then this robert kind of like changed the tune of like well then you just you can't just come in saying stuff you got to show us something

So she says, well, Robert, like you, I was always very supportive of the Duggars. I've been in their home. I've gone to church with them. Something just didn't feel right. For some reason, I didn't trust Jim Bob. Then the truth came out about his son. It's the hair, right? And the cell phone clipped to the side. That's always suspicious. Then the truth came out about his son. He is the one that told what happened.

Josh got up in front of the church and asked for forgiveness and all that stuff but he was secretly still up to no good. I really don't know how long it had been going on before it came out. But even after it did, Josh pretended to be this sweet all-American boy who loved his family. They're just like, they can't stand it. I love it.

All the time he was going on porno sites, and it says prano. I almost read it wrong. Porno sites on the internet and watching all the filth that it has. Looking for that pran. Prano. The temptation was too much and he explored with his sisters. Ew. I know the person that contacted Oprah and told her that the family is not as pure as they seem.

They were taking Oprah, the Discovery Health Channel, TLC Channel, and everyone else that they have appeared on for a big ride. They receive money for each show, and if not money, they get something out of it. Jim Bob has made the statement that this is the way that he has to provide for his family. Don't you think that is being a fraud? If not, please explain what is the difference. They know that when they go... Sorry, go ahead. Go ahead.

I was just thinking like he couldn't necessarily get a regular job and support this family. So if that's the mindset, I feel like that would be the mindset for anybody. Not saying he's doing anything right, but I definitely like that many kids like. You're not going to get a job at, you know, the Shell Station and support your children. They rent out commercial properties and they had other ways of making money. But like part of me is like if you could have your life filmed.

Like, I'm not saying, okay, and then we can get into this whole thing of, like, is filming your children right, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, that's a conversation for another time. But, like, this was like, oh, if you can just do stuff and get paid, like, that's just not the thing that I'm taking issue with right now versus, like, this person.

But they say they know that when they go on the shows that they lie. And the more the exposure they have, the more money that comes into him. It was Oprah's decision. to turn them over to the authorities. Oprah is not the only one that has turned them in for child abuse. Of course you can't find any records on this. It is all sealed behind closed doors. The truth needs to be told and I have made it my mission to stop this from happening.

They are frauds and living off of the good graces of other people. I've watched them on the Montel Williams show and I wanted to throw up. It made me sick inside.

to know that what i know and to watch them get in front of a tv camera in line so that's where my problem is the hypocrisy of it all of course yeah that's the issue is the fact that you're going on touting this like lifestyle meanwhile you've got all these fucking skeletons in your closet that's the problem i have yeah i do want to say that um in the wording

that was there. Alias makes it sound like he was on all these prawn sites. And then that led to him, uh, molesting his sisters. I don't think, uh, I don't think one leads to the other. No, there are plenty of people who watch porn and never molest people. Prawn, please. Prawn. Prawn, no. Thank you. Oh, and then one final word from Alice, this time on May 26th at 3.12 p.m. The Duggars do annoy me more than any other quiverful families.

Probably because they are pimping their lifestyle on TV for money and publicity. It bugs me. I admit it fully. We can tell. Especially when you throw in their tax-exempt status. I really do need to start worshiping Mighty Mouse and form my own home-based church so I too can enjoy this little benefit. It just sickens me. They pimp themselves to a world that they don't even approve of. How much more hypocritical can someone get? I'm on board with that.

I don't have a problem with the stereotypical gender roles that they adhere to. I don't even have a problem with the little house on the prairie wardrobe. It's fucking snark, man. Agreed. Agreed. beyond but also the whole political aspirations of jim bob being furthered by this so it's okay to appeal to the outside world of which they don't approve as long as it furthers their crazy aspirations

Either stick to the lifestyle and live it or admit that they are a bunch of hypocrites. Other quiverful families don't attempt to mainstream themselves. They know it's their personal choice. Don't seek public approval and just continue on. Correct. And I really have a problem with the children raising children and taking care of the household while mom sits on her tush, cranking out the next one. Damn, that is family friendly shit talking right there. She's just on her tush all day.

I'm sorry to... I'm sorry. And this is not anything bad at all. It reminds me of your mother. I know. Because my mother-in-law... is a lovely woman she's very nice to me she's been very welcoming but she's the same way and when she would try to get snarky she would always go stick it up your butt and that's exactly how she says it too she's like stick it up your butt

Like there's just, there's so much sass. And there's like a little like shake to her shoulders when she says it too. She's all stick it up your butt. She's just on her tush all day. Oh, yeah, it's hilarious. Oh, this is so good. Do you see now where I was like, I have to read this? No amount of paraphrasing was going to do these comments justice.

Anyways, so sitting on their tush, cranking out the next one. I get no impression that Michelle is a hands-on mother, neither do we, after those children hit more than three months old. Once they hit that age, she hands them off and starts working on the next one. It's sick. In Reddit, they call it, she teed them and yeed them. After she's done breastfeeding, they teed them and yeed them. It's sick.

The human body wasn't made to handle it either. She'll be dead by the time she's 50, and her uterus will be gone long before then. It isn't healthy nor something to aspire to. Round of fucking applause for Alice. Yeah, Alias. Nicely done, Alias. I just love it. The hypocrisy. Because it's so true. You don't even watch fucking TV, but you're on a TV show. Correct. But they'll justify it by saying it's ministry.

Just everything has a convenient excuse. Of course. So that's my favorite part of all this. My two main things, my sticking points are the fact that she stuck up for the victim saying you are choosing Josh over the victims. And I like just the pointing out of the hypocrisy. That's my favorite. Yeah, you're not on TV. Nobody's watching your show and going, hmm, maybe I should switch to that religion. Fuck no. No, people, yeah, so it's like. Maybe I should get a belt clip for my phone.

yes so that sums up alice's comments but good god i mean like you can feel the like like it is like there's some real oh yeah there's some real history there you can tell by reading that that that is not just a random person on the internet like i mean i don't know some people do get crazy on the internet but like you can feel this like personal type thing to it right yeah

you can tell that there's nuggets of realism there yeah and even if they're putting in their personal thing of like i hate this i hate that like it stems from like you said a place of like there has like some truth in it now yeah saying now knowing it to be true of course we do have that bias because we do now know it is true so we're we are looking at it through slightly different lens and you are reading this on the boards in 2007 but right basically just to say you can feel the like

roots of it yeah and i feel like even if they hadn't gotten um like some detailed stuff correct i feel like you would still be able to go oh damn this person was close yeah it definitely sounds close yeah so on that topic

Who is Alice, right? Alias. Who is Alias? Thank you. So this obviously was on the message boards back in 2007. But this all really, you know... over the years there's just been tons of speculation of like who could this person be because at first it's like is it even a real person

then when stuff started coming out you figure like were they telling the truth when and then when the stuff was confirmed to be the truth it was like okay so that's when all of this speculation on who it could be starts to really mount over the years correct because then it became Oh, this person did know something. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I'm just going to name off a couple people.

that were suspected some people said miss cindy if you remember miss cindy was the one that was uh michelle's friend from when she was younger and she was the one that helped um like with the designer like when they're moving to their house later on in episodes she helps with

planning weddings okay there was really nothing there's really no base to that that was just something people are throwing out there they probably liked the drama of like a close friend because they're like oh it's a friend throwing her under the bus but there was really nothing connected to connect anything you mean throwing her tush under the bus her tush so then the next one has a little bit more like possible merit behind it okay and it's that maybe perhaps

Perhaps it was Michelle's older sister. Her older sister. That was the one that only had nine kids, right? No, no, no. She has a lot of older sisters. That was Pam. So this one they're referring to is her sister, Evelyn.

Now, the reason there's a little bit more behind that possibility is because Evelyn's name is Evelyn Alice. Okay. And she's also gay, which is... of course against everything the Duggars believe in so you could kind of see there being like okay is there like a rift between them is she out there spilling the truth because you know but then just really her name being

Evelyn Alice you're like oh that could be a connection so that was that was one of the ones that I thought was a little bit more of like a fun one where I was like oh that would be awesome next one of course is Miss Bobbie Holt herself Bobbie Of course, as all this stuff is coming forward, people are like, oh my god, Alice has to be Bobby. They're like, it has to be.

And several people who are close to the Holtz and also know the Duggars who have come forward, whether there was one person that testified in the trial who is also on Reddit all the time, Clint. And just like Justin from... pray you put this journal away. Like a bunch of people have like confirmed. And then there was, there's another person on Reddit that has like a throwaway account that says that they are a relative of the Holtz.

And so all these different people at different points have said that Alice is not Bobby. Okay. And when all of this was coming out with the trial and. Bobby, Bobby A was pretty active on like Facebook and social media. She herself did say, no, it's I'm not Alice. Okay. But it has been confirmed by all those other people I told you about that.

Alice is indeed related to the Holtz so for a long time it's been this like you know first it was this huge mystery who is she and then you're like oh shit it's not you know it's not bobby but like she's related to them yeah but these people also confirmed that allison is the same person who contacted oprah

So it's even funnier because when we read those comments, remember how they said, I know the person who contacted Oprah? Yeah. It was actually themselves. Okay. Okay. So they confirmed that they're the one who contacted Oprah, and they also confirmed that... since Alice has since passed away.

okay so it was kind of this like okay so it's kind of and they they even said like alice is aware of the subreddit she knows this but she does not want to be identified we're we're we're gonna keep her wish but just know it's not bobby but she is really but they don't wish to be known. Okay. But they have passed away. So who in Bob Yeh's family has passed away? So, on that note, so it's...

I just have to go into this with, like, the disclaimer. Of course, this has not ever been 100% confirmed. But there is really good evidence that Alice is Bobye's mom. Cue X-Files music. The reason, let's talk about the evidence. Okay. Because if we're going to make claims, we at least have to have some good backing evidence. Show me the receipts.

So the person and this is in like the police reports and things that like Oprah's people like said and whatever. They said that the person who contacted Harpo was said to be a 61 year old female from Rogers, Arkansas. At the time. Yes. Okay. When you look up Bobby's mom's obituary, it says that Tim says he gets mad when I say Bobby.

He's like, I kind of get disappointed when you don't say Bobby. In my head, I'm just like, you mean Bobby. Exactly. I edit it in my head. Yeah, you're like, get it right. I fix it in post. There you go. So, Bob Yee's mom's obituary says that she lived in Rogers, Arkansas since like the 70s. Okay. And that she passed away in February 2011 at the age of 65. Okay.

So think about it. That was in 2006. Right. 2011, that's four years prior. Correct. 65 when she died, minus four would be 61. Yeah. So, again, just want to reiterate. Not confirmed. Really good evidence. Like I feel like we can say like 97% sure it is Bobby's mother.

Which would make sense because she would know the details. Her daughter confided in her. They said they went to their church. I could see her going to their church if that's where her daughter was going to church. It just all makes sense. And then she's hearing these details from her daughter and it was like, oh, fuck no. Not on my watch. Yeah. Okay. There's more. You all right over there? Whenever Winnie does her deep dive, I told her, I imagine...

The meme of Charlie Day from It's Always Sunny. with all the newspaper clippings on the wall and the red yarn. I need a fucking cigarette right now. Yeah, exactly. That crazy ass look on your face with the cigarette in your fingers. That's what I imagined when she was like, but wait. And I keep looking at them like, but there's more. Right. But wait, but how old was Bob Ye's mom? That's what I imagined. Okay. So now that we know that Alice was also the one who contacted Oprah.

Let's go back and talk about that entire chain of events. So if you remember correctly, it was that this book was lent out with a letter inside. Then the phone call was made to Oprah and the Arkansas police on that same day in December of 2006. Little recap. Yep. So now we know who called Oprah. But the question is, who was the letter writer, of course, and who was the caller? Right. So there has always been tons of speculation about the letter writer.

Because there was really no real details for us to even like find clues to try to link anything. Like it literally could have just been anyone. So it's just been complete speculation ever since this all came out. So the mystery, so what it was is that back in 2015 is when the news broke about those interviews that we talked about last episode.

okay so those happened in 2006 it was kept under you know under wraps it was in 2015 that it all got pulled out from underneath them and it all went public okay so it's been you know this big speculation since 2015 especially is when we found out like the whole letter situation right so very lucky for us The letter writer was just revealed like literally back in early February of this year. Oh my. Through the court documents from a lawsuit that the sister victims.

um had filed uh that entire lawsuit is a whole other topic for a whole other day it's another deep dive but it was through the court documents of this that we had access to depositions okay And through this deposition, we found out that the letter writer was, can I get like a little drum roll, a little something? Ladies and gentlemen, the letter writer was Kaylee Holt. Jim Bob.

And Bob Yeh's daughter, the one who had been courting Josh. Wow. So this is how it all went down. And that's going back. Way back. That was the one that we saw in the first special. Yes. Yeah. Because I remember when that came out because that was where we watched it together. And I remember asking a question and I thought you were going to burst.

Because you looked at me and you were like, but wait, like you knew it was going to be too long of a story. I can't do this right now. So this is taking it all the way back. to that bedroom meeting in March of 2003 where Jim, Bob, and Michelle called over Jim and Bobye, and that's where they talked about how that was the day that he'd had Joy on the lap.

And that the courtship had to be called off. That was all this. So apparently they came home that night or whatever. And they explained to Kaylee kind of what happened and why their courtship was. You know, no longer. And Kaylee wrote about it in a letter that she was writing to her favorite author, apparently, by the name of Janet Oak.

Okay. I had to look that up. I don't know who Janet Oak is. Okay. But she's described as an inspirational fiction author with her stories usually set in pioneer times. So very Duggar friendly, like Duggar adjacent people as well. I mean, I'm a fan of her entire catalog myself. Oh, that Janet, man. I'm ready for that new hot oak. So. This is Kaylee's favorite author. She said that there was really no real intention of her sending.

the letter to the author but it was just more of like a journaling experience like writing to someone so she writes this letter about everything she heard from her parents that i guess gives enough detail for people to be concerned you know like actually talks about abuse Right. Puts this in one of her favorite Janet Oaks books, forgets about it entirely. So then three years later, she lends out that book to a friend. The friend finds the letter.

reads it, and tells her parents. Then the parents tell some of their friends all within the same circle of people, right? with the Duggars. Then they tell some of their other friends and it's that second set of parents that they're the ones who called the Arkansas police. So that is the chain of events with the letter. So now we know the letter writer. We know who wrote Oprah and that that's Alice. And we're pretty sure that she is Bobby's mom.

wow so i just love it that the holt women or holt adjacent because obviously like um bobby's mom wouldn't be a holt herself but i just love that these holts and holt adjacent women are fucking just burning shit to the ground like i love it and the funny part is like the tone of those alice comments right pretty hot oh yeah there's a lot

a lot of mustard like you said before and while Bobbie sounds hot sometimes a little bit um there was still slightly different tones but you can see like so that's why where people were like I think it's her and it's like well the tones like they're like I don't see Bobbie saying pimping like because you know

to talk about like pimping out her kid like their kids and yeah but i just think back like what if kaylee hadn't written that letter yeah like that is what like if you think about it that's what just like led to everything her and then forgetting about it And but later on, it's like it saved the day. Like, it's a good thing that she wrote that letter and just shoved it in a book. To her favorite author. Like, that's that's random. Yeah. But yeah, think about what that sparked.

I think in my head, in musical references. So when you kept talking about how Hayley wrote the letter, I just kept singing. Kaylee. Oh, there you go. Kaylee just wrote me a letter. his entire brain is like a catalog of music that can be referenced at any moment but yeah it's like i just love that it's like these three women like yeah did it all like yeah very appreciative of of all of them and it's even just i just

it just came out so perfectly like that we literally did not know who the letter writer is we just we just found out and so now we can just like line everything up and i'm waiting for the one day if like bobby can just be like yep it was my mom and it would just be like i just want to hear it but i'm pretty sure it would just wrap it all up real nicely and think about what that in what feelings that produces in like lego hair and michelle because for lack of a better term like

obviously bad things happen and they would have happened kind of anyway but i think a lot of them being watched on a different level was sparked by this letter and it was sparked by the mom and it was so i feel like There's probably a lot of animosity towards the Holtz when they used to be very close. Which is something I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to frame all of it, but will be a deep dive at some point.

i think what makes it interesting to me is they're probably just fucking pissed off because come to find out a ton of people knew about this like people in their church knew that josh confessed um now i will say that they're like even um Jim and Bobby have said that like, you know, obviously even to them, things were downplayed or whatever. Yeah. But there was still a level of people knowing that something happened. Correct. And of their entire church. Like Kaylee has even said that.

people blamed her for some of his like issues that he had with like porn and things and she remembers like people coming just because they were courting yes and she's like I remember crying about it so it just it's like The whole group wants to ignore it.

yeah and so there this family is like you're fucking it they're all like you're fucking it up for the rest of us they all want to be they all want to sweep it under the rug but this family is like oh fuck no and actually i want to give major credit to that those parents that did call the police

yeah so they i didn't even bother saying their names because they in no other way have interjected themselves that was supposed to be anonymous it's just since come out but like and i don't like good on them so finally two families that give enough of a shit to not just gossip about it or sweep it under the rug to actually take some action yep and that pisses jim bob and michelle off because it's like you're one of us you're supposed to just correct go with it yeah so

Anyways, I hope you enjoyed that deep dive because I love this one. Just so much like... There's a lot of juice in that one. Yeah. It just really wraps it all up nicely of the last episode. Correct.

So that's kind of it for me. Anything from you? No. That deep dive was incredibly fascinating. So I think that's the beauty of this is that Whitney is a researcher. And I think it is showing dividends because she's obviously not just pulling every bit of like mundane information. Like there is some fascinating connections to what we're watching.

We appreciate everybody's support. I've had a couple people in my personal life that have listened that said the same thing that I've told you about this where they were like, I didn't give a shit about any of these people. I don't care about their kids. I don't care about their TV show. But they were like, this is fascinating because you get such. Because you don't have to care about the people. Right. There's so much more to it. Yeah.

You don't have to like the people. You don't have to be a fan. This is like a whole different ballgame. And honestly, just a minor shout out to like the Duggar Snark community on Reddit. Oh, yeah, totally. because even before we decided to start this venture whitney was on there a lot

And I think she found a community of people that were there. And I feel like there's probably a large amount of those people that listen to our podcast. And I know I appreciate it. Yes, we appreciate you guys and having people to talk about it with. And, you know, you guys have.

I get so much information there because that's where I can go get court documents without having to look them up myself. It's really great that you guys make it definitely easier on me. That's for sure. I appreciate all of it. As always. Once again, follow us, like us on Instagram. Whitney's been throwing some very interesting posts around, not only reference material to the actual pod, we've thrown some polls up there and stuff. So just kind of some fun things as well.

on top of horrible pictures of their fashion choices. Yeah, we're hoping to keep it fun with some stuff going forward. So that's the Instagram is digging up the Duggars pod. And then we have an email digging up the Duggars at Gmail. So feel free to send us a message. If you're on Apple Podcasts, we'd love to have you guys rate the show. We've gotten some pretty good interaction with some people, which is nice. So go ahead and throw that down. We'll see you next week. See you next week.