Episode 5 - Criminal Bangs

The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US-based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans, or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year.

Visit lifelock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. Mother is believing. At least I have a husband, you know. Does anybody here believe that?

hey guys it's future tim and future whitney And we just wanted to reach back in time and address something real quick. Do it. We've seen our numbers go up and we've had a lot of new listeners to the pod recently. Now, when we first started this, we've never done anything like this before. Not remotely. No, we've never recorded anything. I was a musician in school, but I never recorded anything. So we started with some very...

cheap, entry-level equipment. Bad equipment and inexperience. Absolutely. So I bought Whitney this, like, sound... podcast deck years ago for christmas um and it sat in our closet for years went through a house move we came here we finally started using it and realized

this thing don't work so good. This ain't gonna work. No, no, it was real bad. So we just wanted to reach back in time to anyone who's joining us for the first kind of chunk of episodes and just let you know, we know that our audio is rough. We get it. No, we're painfully aware. Painfully aware, and we look back so embarrassed at it. But we stick behind our content. Yes, I do.

I feel like our content is great. So all we're saying is we hit our stride probably a few episodes into the pod. So just stick with us. Yeah, just, you know. Stick with us through the growing pains. I promise it gets better. And this was actually a huge moment of growth for me to jump into something without mindfucking it to death and not being totally prepared and whatever. I just appreciate if you guys do stick with it because...

You know, there's something to be said about being one of those people that you're like, I was there for the beginning when it sounded like two different volumes in a fucking tin can. And then really bad Spotify tags. Yeah. Just stick with us. We promise you we feel like we stick behind our content and we hope you guys love it too. So we'll hit our stride.

Hey guys, it's even farther in the future, Tim. By like 45 seconds. Yep. I told Tim, I said, I want to say something. So when we were recording this, I had to stop about four times because I kept saying we've had a lot of new users. And I was like, listeners. Listeners.

I'm like a bad actor on like a movie or a commercial or something. It made me think of Joey and how he kept saying, mmm, noodle soup. And they're like, damn it. So Tim was noodle souping through that whole thing. And I was like, do we need a script? But anyways, I think we made it through it.

That's all I wanted to say. Thanks, users. Okay, welcome to another episode of Digging Up the Duggars. This is where we're doing a watch from the beginning. Tim is the pure one. As is always. Oh, yeah, sure. And then I'm the one who's seen it before, but we're re-watching, looking for the red flags, doing some deep dives. That's the spiel. So today...

is a little different than normal, unfortunately. It'll be okay. It'll be fine. I won't sleep at night, but it'll be fine. I feel like with everything going on with the sentencing... Maybe we couldn't handle an episode this week. So here's the deal. There are five specials on Discovery before they actually end up having the show. I've ordered the DVDs. I'm slowly collecting them. I have plenty to get.

get us started I need some later seasons but I've got plenty of time till I get there but I thought I was covered I thought all the specials were on YouTube then come to find out This last special, the fifth and final one before the show, Duggar's Big Family album, not on YouTube. So I was like, oh, my God. Tim can vouch. I spent hours.

scouring the internet trying to find it i was on reddit being like please guys does anybody have a bootleg version and then like all the old posts because it used to be on youtube but it's been taken down at some point Like in the last couple of months. And so everybody was like, it's on YouTube. Like, no, it's not. But I searched everywhere. So unfortunately, we didn't actually get to watch.

This episode I sent to it's kind of being pieced together with a few clips that we saw online. And then I read a like a recap. done by somebody else um so i have to give a little shout out to it's called pop culture crime apparently and they're kind of um they wrote it from the snarky end as well so there's probably not some of the detail

But it sounds like it's right in your wheelhouse. But it's going to work for what we need. So Tim hasn't seen it, but I'm just going to be going through it. But again, this is based off of somebody else's recap, which I am. appreciative but i didn't want to skip over the episode entirely so i figured this was kind of a way to still address it but unfortunately we didn't get to hear it with our own ears yeah but the deep dive is gonna

It's going to make up for that so much. It's been a week. My God. I literally have like my chin is all broken out and chin acne for me is just like straight up stress. And then on top of it. Then when I'm nervous, I pick at myself like a fucking meth addict. So I have like gaping wounds all because of sex pest. I'm ready for this to be over. Good God. It's been a week. And we. We recorded last time and posted like right before everything went down.

So I think we've had like even more time to like digest and think. And well, you have. Yes. I keep Tim is purposely kept in the dark on this stuff. So he hears about it now, but.

All right, take a small break, and then we'll get started on Duggar Big Family Album. Okay, so Duggar Big Family Album, again, fifth and final special before they got their show. It premiered September 22, 2007. So it's a good year and like two months since the last one. So this is the biggest gap between specials, I'm pretty sure, that there was in that entire process. Here's the good news.

Good news is they literally rehashed the same shit from all the other specials. And like literally when I found one of the posts on Reddit where someone else was kind of recapping it, the recap was. basically nothing because they're like nothing happens you haven't seen so that's the good news is i don't feel terrible because it's not like we're missing out on something yeah and i even thought for a second oh maybe this was just like shortly before their show was starting so maybe they're

kind of just recapping all this so that people remember right before. No, there's another full year before the show starts. Wow. So it's even more infuriating that they keep rehashing this shit over and over. Anyways, so we didn't miss out on a whole lot. but um okay so did you watch that opening sequence that i sent you i did yeah it was like a blooper it's not even it says blooper on youtube but that is that is actually what made it to the show

Okay. So it's the opening part of the episode. They're all sitting on the couch, the entire family. Jim Bob is like trying to fumble his way through what's going to happen in this episode. Correct. It's painful. I'm like, good God, somebody give this fucking Lego head a script. He's just like, what do I say? Do we not have a cue card man we could have called? For real. I'm like, Jesus Christ. Somebody get this man.

a script so while he's trying to come up with what to say all this oh it's he can't even get the kid's name straight when he's going through all of it he he talks about Michelle being pregnant with Johanna. Meanwhile, Johanna is sitting on his lap and everybody's like, no, Johanna. Like, you know, they're all like, so my point is proven unless those girls are laying in their beds that have their name on it.

he ain't gonna remember he don't know who he's talking to which one are you it's like my mom pulled the same thing she had four girls and it was always like kinsey uh heather bree kid like she could never even get to my name so there's that part of me that like understands that but they have too much no you don't once you have that many kids like i don't yeah you don't get that much sympathy from me so he can't get their names right and in the middle of all of this

All of a sudden, you just hear one of the boys, which I desperately was trying to figure out which boy it was. But there's this space and time. They're called the Lost Boys for a reason because nobody knows who the fuck who is who, especially when they're little. Hello, nondescript white child. Unless you're Josiah, I don't know who you are. So I was desperate. I'm like, who the fuck is saying it? But I couldn't figure out who it was. But one of the boys is like, Johanna pooped!

on you and yeah so Johanna poops all over Jim Bob shout out to Johanna and that's kind of the the opening sequence of the whole show so Michelle is pregnant with number 17, Jennifer. And that's what Jim Bob couldn't get right. He kept saying she was pregnant with Johanna. And then leave it to my buddy, Josiah. Apparently he said. It's not a boy, but it's still okay. Which I feel like, I told you that he's like, you know, he kind of, he kind of is a head in the pack is my favorite.

He's the one that just wanted space to hide, right? Yes. And then he's the one that's like not sugarcoating shit with like their sleeping situation. He's like, you should listen to my story. I had a thin ass blanket. He didn't say ass, but he's like, I had a thin blanket. He just has more like, I feel like he's just more outspoken.

I don't feel like he does the keep sweet quite as much as the other kids. So I'm into it. Which is a level of genuine perspective that I think a lot of them don't have. And you'll see as time goes on, he gets beat down eventually. But in the beginning, when he's a little kid, it's endearing before it completely gets beaten to shit out of him. Oh, God. Apparently, Joseph says that, well, they have enough boys, so it's all right.

And then I guess we get into a little like segment where Michelle talks about some of the kids. I'm not entirely sure since I didn't see it myself. If she goes through every single kid. But this particular article just highlighted some of the kids, and I'm even just going to go through a few of them. It's funny what Michelle has to say about Jana. She says, Jana can manage a household better than I can.

Surprise, surprise. We know, Michelle. How many times? It's like, we know. She always says these things that she thinks is news to everybody. We always know. It's not surprising. Every episode, there's a we know Michelle moment. She's like, man, it's been forever since I've cleaned my own bedroom. We get it. No surprises here, Michelle. She says that Jill likes things just so. That John David is sweet.

uh that ginger is a giver and a talker uh she says that joseph is a quiet leader and then i think it's funny about jason she says that he's a big boy now that's not really about his personality like he's just he's a big boy Interesting. And then I thought what she said about James was funny because she describes him as very busy. And I won't get too deep into it, but I just thought it was ironic considering some of the stuff I've read about James.

There was like a guy that was like a production assistant that did an AMA at one point. Ooh, interesting. And he says that, like, he's like, I don't like to talk bad of kids, but fuck that kid.

damn he said that he liked to like jump scare people like when they're holding like power tools and that he was always really weird with animals and would kind of like drag them around and they saw him kick a cat so obviously you can take this all of salt but if that's true and just tons of people are like that kid like even before that like oh my god i'm glad you said this because that kid is we've always joked that he gives me like ted bundy vibes oh man so um

It's the fact that she calls James very busy and it's like very busy being the next pest. Like, I think they got another situation coming down the road maybe with him. Oh, God.

So this special is also the very first time they address the whole J names thing. Do you know why they're all J names? No idea. Okay. So apparently they just picked out Joshua because they liked that name from the Bible. There wasn't really.

That was why. And then they went with Jana and John David next. Not really, you know, they're like, we weren't going for biblical at that point. We just did it. And then they said that every time after that, they never knew if it was going to be their last kid.

So they'd feel guilty if that kid got left out of it. So they just kept with J names. Oh, God. So the only person in the entire family that doesn't have a J name is Michelle. Is Michelle. Yep. She should just put it in there. Jim Michelle. Jim Michelle. So then I kind of wish I'd gone to see this part. Dang it. The kids talk about being recognized at the store and John David says like.

People talk to us like they know us. So I wish I could have seen that part. Oh, side note. One of the things that people said on Reddit, they were like, oh, well, I have it on my 17 Kids and Counting DVD. And I rushed out here because I bought that DVD. I don't have that version. And I looked it up online. There's two versions. One of them has bonus features. One doesn't. Of course, I have the one without the bonus features. So that was too bad. I wish I could have seen that.

Oh, and then apparently there is a lot of talk of tater tot casserole on this particular recipe. Oh, my God. In this episode, Jana says that people write them all the time for the recipe. Oh, Josh. Here we go. Josh says the first time he had it, he, quote, knew it would be a world-famous recipe. Did ya? Oh, man. Did ya, Josh?

Ginger tells us that people sometimes sub breakfast sausage and eat it for breakfast. Whoa. Getting wild. Breaking some culinary ground there. Do you think it's like the sage sausage? Like the Jimmy Dean? Or is it like the hot? Is sage a little bit too far? I think it's spicy for them. I don't even think they need to get the hot one. I think if they got sage, they'd be like, woo.

Jim Bob says that he one time took the recipe off their website, and he didn't say that. This is my words, but basically there was a revolt, and people had to have it back. So give the people what they want, Jim Bob. You've got to keep the recipe online. Oh, God. This does inspire me, though, because now we've gone through five specials. And this is now the three out of five times that Tater Tot Casserole has been mentioned. Correct. So I'm thinking it might be worth creating like a graphic.

Where we keep track of all the times over all these millions of seasons that it's just mentioned. So we'll have a running tally of how many times they talk about tater dog casserole. We should come up with like a drop or like a noise. So when we do reference it in an episode, I can put that noise into it. There we go. All right. So look out for that. We're going to do some tater tot work here. So once they move on from tater tot talk.

They talk about jurisdictions yet again. Can't get enough of the jurisdictions. Sorry, Jana. I know. But this time the kids do complain that it's more work because now that the house is much bigger. They're not all in a shoebox, basically. They're just like, it's more house to clean. And I guess Jim Bob goes on about how, yeah, the rooms are bigger, so the jurisdictions are bigger, but it's okay because the kids are bigger. So they can take on more responsibility.

justification yeah um and while they're talking i just wanted to note i sent you the picture while they're talking about jurisdictions like ginger's bangs are criminal They are awful. Just go on our Instagram where I do the visuals the day after we drop the episode. It's bad. I hadn't really looked at it. I looked at the look on her face.

And then the word bubble that said jurisdictions and I chuckled. I didn't even notice her awful bangs. Oh, it's so bad. Like, thank God this girl. This is why they don't date. Because when you date and you break up, you get a bad haircut. Like, if this is them not in that situation, yeesh. Oh, man. okay so then after jurisdictions oh go figure they show them moving again and then they show scenes from that rv trip again which is

Less of a problem. I have more of a problem with the other things being shown for the millionth fucking time. At least with the trip, it was just the last one. But they guessed, do you remember the last episode when they stopped at that Cadillac Ranch? Yes. So they do actually show a little bit more about that, I guess. With the tweaker kid. LBK was his. The tweaker kid. So they show them talking about him. Jessa just calls him a weirdo.

and jill calls him eccentric oh that's the nice say of weighing a weirdo but to me i actually think that this is like the reason i wrote this down is because i feel like it perfectly highlights the difference between the two girls because like jessa's kind of considered like the bitchy sister like the christian bitchy girl you know and then jill's just kind of sweet

and so i think it's funny that just like perfectly shows that you know what jess is like he's a fucking weirdo and jill's like well he's eccentric so i thought that was funny And then Josh says that he's not sure if LBK is putting on a show or if it's genuine. A couple things here. Weird. Number one, I don't even have to watch that scene.

I can hear it in my head and I can just hear the smugness coming from oozing out of Josh's gross mouth. The number two, I just think that's ironic coming from Josh, whose entire life has been putting on a show. for other people in the world while not being genuine so just you know like like he's the sheriff of being genuine like who the fuck are you josh interesting

And then finally, Michelle has baby number 17. This is Jennifer Daniel, August 2nd, 2007. And the person who, you know, that wrote the article that I'm referencing.

Like, even they wrote, they're like, this is just not even interesting. But who cares? It's like, you have so many kids, nobody cares after a point. It's not an event anymore. Exactly. And then, like, later on, you'll see, like, way, way later when the kids are grown up. It's like... every season there's a wedding and it's like god how sad that like big life events are nothing anymore they're just another commitment they're just another thing it's another thing yeah so it's like

They may act like they're excited. Is anybody really that excited for another baby? Right. So weird. And then as that kid grows up, it's like there's so many birthdays that like your birthday isn't even really special. Yeah. Like it's so interesting.

Now we're just going to start celebrating birthdays quarterly. So all the kids that have birthdays in the first three months, it's your turn. It's like in the office when they have a cake and it's like everybody gather in the break room and it's like... the winter birthdays yeah anyways uh and i guess there's an ending scene of them making breakfast

at the house and little Jason is shown helping and I saw a still shot of him taking like the biscuits out of the oven and the person who wrote this article their line cracked me up they said I wish I could see it they just said He sure is touching those biscuits a whole bunch. And I don't know why, but it made me laugh so hard. Little kids should not be preparing food. No. No, there's not. I mean.

I know some adults in the industry that don't have the hygiene where they should be prepping food. Let alone one of the lost boys. Yeah. Ick. I have this random memory of Whitney was making dog treats to hand out to the other families for Christmas. And I remember we kept catching our cat. on the uh counter licking them because they were obviously delicious but you're like those are gifts for somebody else

Lisa was for a dog. Can you please not lick every single one before we give them to somebody else? I have video of it too. I went to go to the bathroom and I came back and she's on the counter licking all the dough. I was like, oh, at least it's going to a dog. All right. So that sums up the special. That's it. And so kind of sped through it because it is disappointing that we didn't get to watch it. But at the same time, it doesn't sound like we missed a whole heck of a lot. Yeah.

Could be worse. All right. So we'll go ahead and we'll take a little break and then we will get into the deep dive. So it probably comes as a shock to no one that this week's... Deep Dive is about Josh's sentencing this week. Oh, did something Duggar related happen this week? Oh, something. Big news. Okay, so let's just. So first of all.

It was actually kind of funny because I have a cousin that lives nearby. Like she says that she sees the Duggars at Walmart all the time. And she messaged me the day before and she was like, oh, there's already all kinds of stuff outside the courthouse, like getting ready. So it was just kind of.

of funny to hear those little things but because it's a federal case there's no cameras so it's unfortunate that all we have is people we only have like paparazzi type pictures of people going in and out and then anybody who actually gets into the courtroom

uh like the court drawings yes you only have drawings and then like before it was nice with all of his like with the actual trial you got to see him going in but like now we didn't get to see him at all all we have are like the artist you know renderings and stuff But unfortunately, completely dependent on the sun. It's not like the sun's not.

not a very reputable great source but they're all we've had for the trial and pretty much for this as far as i mean there are some other people but they're like the main ones that kind of keep up with it like in breaks like updating the website So Anna was the first one there at the courthouse, and she showed up with a new sister-in-law of hers.

and her brother and i just want to note that this sister-in-law was wearing a sleeveless dress so i was like that is they must not live by the same modesty standards So I thought that was interesting. What about her countenance? I can't pay attention to her countenance if she's showing her top of her shoulders. Oh, man. Yeah. Then, of course, Jim Bob showed up. No signs of Michelle, but I don't think that comes as a shock. Has she been at any of the other stuff? Nothing at all.

wow so it is kind of funny that so jim bob is the one that shows up then michelle is the one that writes the letter but i mean you can't convince me they haven't given that woman like a lobotomy and she's just like they're just like leaving her in the in the tater top mansion and they only take her out everyone i think they've like rosemary kennedy'd her oh god i don't know that's just that's my fun theory but um i think she's just heavily sedated honestly so no no signs of michelle

One thing that gave me a real good chuckle before things even got started was that one of the Sun reporter's description of Josh was, he has a beard and appeared to have lost more of his hair. I thought that was funny. And the sketches are like nightmare inducing. Oh, why? He just looks creepy. Really? Oh, I should. Oh, so you mean they're like incredibly realistic? Oh, exactly. He looks like a fucking Disney villain. He looks creepy. So he looks like himself. Yes, exactly.

so last time at the trial some people like you know kind of family members some were kind of in and out um but this time there really wasn't nearly the the number of family members showing up the only people that actually came besides obviously Anna Jim Bob then there was Joy and then there was Jason and apparently James was there I didn't see actually any photos of Jason or I mean James I'm sorry I saw Jason um but James I didn't see but apparently he was there

So it is interesting that apparently, so Jim Bob sat on the side with like Anna. So there was Jim Bob, Anna, and then the people that came with Anna, her brother and sister-in-law. And then Joy, Jason, and James, they sat on the prosecution side in the back row. And you feel like that's them picking their side? I mean, you can...

I don't know how it works. Is that the only room? I don't know. But to me, just like they stayed far away regardless. Yeah. And even during the trial. So Joy's husband, Austin. So he wasn't there this time, but he came almost every single day of the trial last time. And she showed up with him on certain days. And it was interesting because Austin, he stayed, he steered completely clear of the family.

last time like so he always kind of sat in the back in a way so just okay just interesting to note because i i feel like obviously it would be really looked down upon if they like came out publicly and like spoke against kind of josh or the family or kind of anything so i feel like they have to do these little signs of protest and i think that's one of them Well, the thing that's interesting is Jill's husband Derek was at the trial every single day.

But he was getting ready to take the bar or maybe he had just taken the bar. I can't remember exactly where it was in the timeline. But so he he is now a full blown like lawyer and everything. But at the time he showed up and he had a notebook and he had his thermos. He had this one thermos.

the red kind of going to school it was he was there every day but that was what was interesting about him is he was completely he has been you don't know this but um he and jill have been on bad bad terms with the parents for a couple years now okay so and he's been very outspoken about the parents in general and then also about this you know about this case okay so it was interesting that when Derek showed up he sat next to Anna

every day well so he was completely against her her husband but he was there kind of showing like moral support to her problem isn't with you yes but then um yeah so he was near jim bob during the trial because of that but They didn't speak is what everybody said. Anyways. He's the bad brother-in-law. He is. I mean, it's kind of unfortunate how far down the line it is because I'd love to talk about it now. But we've got a ways.

But that's okay. We have plenty of material. This family is nonstop with the material. Okay, so back to the trial. Or sentencing, I guess you'd call it trial.

Maybe I'm just naive to this whole situation, but it ended up being much longer than I expected. I really thought it was going to be something maybe a couple hours and done, but it was so long like there was a lunch break and everything. Oh, wow. But it ended up being that long because of the defense's 22 objections that needed to be addressed. So it was all those things about.

point i don't care what he sustained and what he objected to like i just don't i feel like it doesn't matter at this point like just let's move on it's exhausting so we're not going to talk about those specifically But I did want to talk a little bit about some of the things that Judge Brooks said specifically. So he described the material as both horrific.

the sickest of the sick, and some of which he hasn't been able to get out of his head ever since seeing it. I feel like that's pretty telling. He directly said to Josh, you have a history of sexual abuse. And personally, like I'm really glad that he said this because of how the defense like downplayed it so much.

yeah with him being a minor as well they were just like well he was he was also a minor so boys will be boys yeah it's kind of that whole mentality so i'm really glad that he just like called it for what it is and it's like you have A history of sexual abuse. You may not have been convicted on something else, and this is technically your first offense according to the law, but there is history there.

The judge also noted that one of his previous victims, Joy, was the same age range as the material. And so he said, quote, the sexual interest is the same. And from what I understand, Joy was pretty upset when they got to the part that was talking specifically about her. Right. Then he got into all the letters.

And he said that he considered them. Oh, this this got me going. I got all like pissed at first because he did like the updates from the sun are just coming in and these tiny little bits like as they can update. And one of the things just said that he considered the letters.

both helpful and nice and then he said especially Anna and Michelle's and I freaked the fuck out because that's what I do because I'm like okay helpful could be a good thing helpful and being like oh this is bullshit But I was like, nice.

like how are you calling this like I like I don't know like I was like oh my god what the fuck is he doing I was so upset and I thought it was especially funny because he says that especially Anna and Michelle's but like I said in the last episode I felt like theirs was like the most basic level those are the most like the fakest yeah they were just i was like really those were like just so i found that interesting um and then this was pretty

Funny to me. As far as the kinds of things he's done, like all the nice things that he's done that all these letters just go on and on about. Crackers. Right. Judge Brooks said that was some someone that we can't recognize. He said, and you have done some very bad things, but in your life as a whole, you've done good things. Then he said the true test of a man's character is what he's done when no one is watching. You knew covenant eyes was watching and you went around covenant eyes. Wow.

And from people who were in the courtroom, they said that he, which I'm sure is. typical but it's just nice to hear they said that he spoke very directly to josh in these moments like it wasn't just like kind of reading off a thing for everyone to hear they're like he looked at him and there it was like i am talking to you

Which I appreciate. Josh was given the opportunity to speak, but he decided he opted not to. Probably for the best. Probably. And so that was just I just kind of gave a basic rundown of what he said. Like I said wasn't going to get into the details of all the enhancements and all the things back and forth that everybody argued for hours upon hours. So let's just get straight to the sentence.

Most of you probably have seen it at some point, so it's not huge news, but he got 151 months, which comes to 12 years, 7 months. And the max was 20. The max was 20. Minimum was 5. Max was 20. But after that, it's followed by 20 years of supervised release. He also owes like $50,000 in fines. I think it might be like $50,100.

actually he's supposed to start paying on now like it's not upon release it's like now and then it says like if you if you can't start paying them like we'll figure out a payment plan but it's specifically noted that according to his net worth he is capable of paying this wow Maybe you'll have to buy used and save the difference. I hope they did that a lot. $50,000 worth. But it actually, they were living in, they actually bought a house and were getting.

ready to like completely renovate it when like the raid and all the shit went down they were living at a warehouse that's on jim bob and michelle's property and everybody jokes and goes it's not a warehouse it's a ware home so so they had been living in the ware home already even before all this went down but um somewhere in this

process i think it was actually a little bit more recently they they sold that property so you so you do know that they have the cash from selling that property at least and that anna's living rent free in the ware home so There is some cash there. All right, so let's get into the specifics about his probation. So they're saying that it'll be 20 years upon release and that he will be...

He'll have to be on the sex offender registry. He will not be allowed to own any firearms. No controlled substances. And no contact with minors, including his own children, without supervision. So, Judge Brooks specifically said that... He gave Jim, Bob, Michelle, and Anna as examples of who the supervisor could be. But he said ultimately that it will be the probation officer who appoints it. And I'm like, none of them are going to be.

like legit supervisors they're not gonna yeah that's what i worry about like they'll totally bend the rules and try to like let his kids because to me according to this it sounds like he can't live with his children correct just like the same way when he was out between um the arrest and the trial he had to go stay at the he could be around his children but Anna had to be present but he was living at that other house yeah I'm hearing as this is for 20 years he can't live with his family right

And his kids will be, at some point, they will all be, like a couple years into that, they will be adults. So then at that point, you're like, yeah, he might be able to move back in because they're not minors anymore. Correct. But sounds to me like he's not living with his family when he gets out. Yeah. He also will not be allowed access to any electronics that have internet capabilities or photo abilities, both taking and storing of photos. Wow.

But if he does, it's going to have monitoring software on it that is going to be completely approved and monitored by the probation officer. He will also have to be in a sex offender treatment program. And then... Not church sponsored, hopefully. No, hopefully, you know, stern talking to's aren't going to cut it this time. Can't pray that away.

And then there's also no, he cannot even view adult porn. And somebody who was in the courtroom said it was funny because Josh was just kind of like... sitting there kind of taking everything the entire time and the second they actually mentioned that then he was suddenly leaning over and whispering with his lawyer like that's the thing that got his attention like he can't like look at adult porn

And then lastly, it's that he'll have to submit to random polygraph tests if at any point that the probation officer feels that he might be violating something. So that was interesting to me.

Because, you know, my brain goes to polygraphs aren't admissible in court. Like, what the hell? Like, I mean, I don't care about what. If it helps him get, you know, in trouble, I don't give a shit. But, you know, I was thinking that that was interesting. So I actually reached out to my brother-in-law that's a probation officer. And I was like, hey, Steve, what's with this? And he explained that that's a specific term that's just used for sex offenders.

it's not necessarily something that if you fail polygraph you're going back like you know they're not throwing you back in just for failing it but they use it as a way to try to figure out what's going on with you if they think something's kind of up and then they can like search and do things like um if they feel they need to so he was kind of explaining to me like the differences between

different types of probation and i was like oh in my head it was kind of like all the same it's all the same yeah but he was just like there's different stuff for sex offenders and then there's different you know for like you know all different types of crimes so the polygraphs are really reserved for sexual type

Okay, so after they talked about his probation, his defense objected to two things. The first one... was what we just talked about they objected to the polygraph test saying that polygraphs aren't admissible in court what the heck but the judge explained that this is typical of these types of cases and blah blah blah blah which i'm like i felt like the lawyer

wouldn't they know that so maybe it's just like that last ditch thing where you're trying to look like you're trying i don't know like who knows at this point then their second objection was they talked about how you know josh not being able to watch adult porn that that's That goes against his constitutional rights. I like how that was something that they objected. Yep.

He's probably not super interested in adult porn, let's be real. Well, that's what's interesting. Starting from the beginning, back to the first special we watched with the shaved head and all that, he has a well-known porn addiction. Okay. So he has, and like in another AMA, somebody said that like when they got hired to be security for a little while, when one of the things broke, when the first scandal broke, they were kind of hired to be security for.

for the family and specifically him. And he talks about like having to drive in the car behind him and he could see that he had porn playing on, like he had his like.

phone mounted you know like as he was driving and he's watching porn as he's driving so it's like it is well documented that yes he does have a porn addiction but to me that this actually goes into what i think kind of the family thinks i think that some of the family probably thinks he's innocent because they they know he has this porn addiction and they i think that they think that some csam files were just kind of mixed in with his regular porn right

So I think it's quite convenient for them to be like, well, no, he's not a child predator. He just has an addiction to porn. Right. And that's obviously a better alternative. Yes. So, yeah. I just think it's really funny that that's where they're like, excuse me, we have an objection to that. But I think it speaks volumes to the like, he knows that that would be the thing to do him in. Yeah. Like, I think that.

he doubts in that moment like okay i don't think he has a problem not being in the same house as his kids honestly do we less crackers to sweep up like he he knows that like I don't have to listen to any new songs on the piano. He doesn't have to throw footballs if he doesn't want to. But no porn? That is a problem. There is a bridge to cross.

So a couple prisons were suggested by the defense, and Judge Brooks narrowed it down to two. They are both in Texas. One of them is about 350 miles away from them, and this is the one that the judge wants because he says it specifically has a sex offender treatment program. Okay.

And then there's another one that's about 240 miles away, also in Texas, but just like barely over the border of Arkansas to Texas. So... there's the one that he's suggesting but it could be either it really just depends on bed space so we don't know when that'll be at this point or where it'll be but it's between the two so at least we know i'm just he'll be anywhere between 240 and 350 miles away

Now post all of this coming out. So after the sentencing, apparently Joy and Jason left really quickly after. the sentence was read they left within 10 minutes there was still all the stuff to go over like the probation and all those things but they just kind of hightailed it out of there and i don't blame her like she was there to hear what was going to happen and then she's like my part's done time to go

Jason was in the sweet, like, blue, powder blue suit, right? Yes. Yeah. You gotta post some pictures of that, because that... suit was something it was something yes it certainly was it wasn't necessarily a train wreck but it was something yeah it's like you part of me goes like

Well, I commend you for branching out of the polos and khakis. At least he's got some sense of his own style. Yeah, I don't think it necessarily looked... bad but coming from a family that's very like miracle whip on wonder bread it was i'm like damn there's a little bit of flavor in that suit well like remember how john david was like we're different some of us don't like pickle like you know like so i felt like this this suit was very like

It's just stepping out there. Good on you, mate. There you go. So when they were leaving, Jim Bob was pissed. Like, the funny part is... they're wearing masks because the court has anybody could wear them of course if they wanted to but uh the court does have if you're not vaxxed you need to

wear a mask which clearly these are not the vaccine types surprise surprise so i just think it's ironic that i'm like oh you probably bitch about wearing a mask all the time because you know that would cover up your countenance How are we supposed to see your countenance if you're wearing a mask? But this is quite convenient for them because I felt like they got to cover their facial expressions. But even through the mask, when Jim Bob is walking in, they're still in the eyes.

like the the kind of the kind of smile the kind of smugness the kind of like i'm still gonna play the role of like happy chipper you know and they said that josh was playing the chipper role too he was like doing like sign language i love you to like anna and he was like joking with the clerk so you know and anna i heard that she was in pretty good spirits when she arrived as well

But of course, it's just ironic. They're probably anti-mask. And then now this is working out for them because then on the way out, they get to wear their mask. Correct. But even through it, Jim Bob was pissed. He came like. man like he came rolling out like hot and when he was going you know of course there's some paparazzi it wasn't crazy i would have honestly expected worse but

He, like, shoulder checks the guy. Like, he, like, bumped. Like, you know, like, they were, like, close. But, yeah, like, to me, it was, like, Jim Bob aggressive for what you try to, like, play off as your normal self. Right. And then Hannah. Hannah. Anna. She, um, she hoofed it out pretty fast. She had her, her sister-in-law with her and yeah, she was, she was running in those heels. So that girl was hoofing it.

So now getting into complete post-sentencing, most of the family has kept pretty quiet about it all. There was a decent amount. I mean, there's a million people in their family. So obviously, ratio-wise, even with the conviction, there was not a ton of statements.

But there was still some, especially from like the adult children. Correct. There was a there was a decent amount. And, you know, some of them were complete bullshit where it felt like they still maybe either didn't completely believe or you felt like they were kind of like in this middle ground where they're probably not trying to.

off Jim Bob so they're not trying to be too harsh but they're also trying to not be like we don't completely we're not signing off on this entirely and so you know Jill and Derek the ones that were you know kind of ousted from the family and

Derek was there every day. They had a very stern one upon his conviction. Ginger and Jeremy, theirs was very stern as well. And it was like... christian speak for like it was like oh damn like when you read it for like for like yeah it was for them very harsh with a lot of like christian type language but

It made its point even to like a secular girl like me. The point was made. But it's kind of funny just because this time there's not nearly there's been nothing from Jim Bob or Michelle like there was before. um haven't heard from jeremy or ginger they did have a picture posted where um he was wearing a save the children shirt so people think that might be a subtle kind of like more subtle protest i think that kind of might be that but

All in all, not a ton, but I honestly also don't blame them. Like Joy and Austin, they did before, but she getting all choked up because she was a victim. Yeah.

feel like at this point they're just like fuck like i just want to i just want it to be done and like the big part was done the conviction was big and of course you know so a sentencing because we want him to go away as long as possible and whatever but i'm like at that point like what the fuck else are they supposed to say really yeah so

And I feel like it's like they went through this big emotional point during the trial. And then it kind of subsided. And then when the sentencing came up, it was all up again. And I just feel like it keeps coming in like waves. Yeah, it's just like, fuck, can we just be done already? So I really don't blame them. Right. But I do want to read a couple of statements, if you will allow. All right, so Jill and Derek, I'm actually going to read theirs in the entirety.

Because they had a really good one from before, and I think this one was good as well. They didn't show up this time, like I said. He just got his new job. They just moved. She's very pregnant. But I'm glad that they did release a statement. They said, yesterday we learned that Josh was given a 151 month sentence in federal prison for his crime of CSAM. The last several weeks and months have been difficult emotionally. Yesterday was another one of those hard days.

We are neither rejoicing nor disappointed by the sentence, but we are thankful it's finally over. The Bible clearly states that God affects justice and vengeance through the governing authorities. Though some believe Josh should have received a greater sentence and still fewer believe he should have received a lighter sentence, God has carried out his vengeance today for his unspeakable criminal activity.

Until now, he has yet to be held accountable to the extent necessary to cause change in his dangerous pattern of behavior. It is unfortunate, but it seems that it may take spending over a decade in federal prison and still more upon probation for Josh to have any potential for rehabilitation to the point he can safely live in society again. Hopefully Josh can actually begin to get treatment and begin to work toward a lifestyle where he is less likely to reoffend.

If for nothing else, the notoriety of this case has hopefully contributed to the deterrence of potential offenders and will protect children by decreasing the demand for CSAM. We continue to love Josh and his family and will be there for them however we can. I feel like it was good. I think obviously it made the point of like, hey, we don't like any of this. Like this is not. Yeah.

I think they did a good job. They threw in what they is jabs at. I feel like anything religious, I think they believe it. So of course they're going to put it anyway, but I feel like bringing in like religious stuff to it. I feel like that's an extra jab at their parents. Oh yeah.

like whether they mean it or not i just feel like it does hit different because i'm like this is what you guys so strongly believe in it's like look at this and i think they're i think they probably use a lot of scripture to justify things in their lives or things that they've said to their kids so the fact that you're like cool I can play that game too you know what I mean I'm using this for to make my point just like you did

yep exactly so the next one is from jason our suit wielding uh leisure suit jason I really wanted to talk about his because I commend him. Now, there's a lot of things about him I do not like. A lot of things. He's got some bullshit beliefs and he spouts off some crap that I... Yeah.

largely don't like the guy but i do commend him because anybody that's kind of given statements before are from the adult children out of the house he is still living under jim bob and michelle's roof well He actually lives in a tree house.

No joke. And how old is he now? Oh, God. You're trying to get me to remember the Lost Boys ages? I mean, early 20s or something. Something early 20s. I mean, it all, I don't know exactly. Even if you give us a ballpark, I want to know how old this treehouse dweller is. I mean, probably. just gonna say 22 I have no idea but he literally lives in a treehouse

Like, it's actually pretty sweet. I got to be honest. Like, it's a new thing that he posted. Like, it's got, like, there's a bridge out to it from the big house. And then, like, he's got, like, a little coffee maker. With his home alone? He has a printer. It's like Sandlot. Is he up there making s'mores? It's pretty sweet. But obviously he still has to go inside because there's not a bathroom. There's not whatever. So he's still under their roof, but outside a little bit.

so anyways i still commend him for saying something because even a lot of the adult children they're under jim bob's thumb like he completely controls their life he controls a lot of their money like yeah that's what i was gonna say he's the he's the financier

So I do feel like Jason saying something was, you know, it really says something. So here's what he said. He said, yesterday, my oldest brother was sentenced to 151 months, around 12 and a half years in prison for receiving and possessing child. pornography. In my opinion, Judge Timothy L. Brooks was fair in his ruling, giving Josh a sentence that would be considered below the medium for the crime he has committed. My heart is grieved over the choices my brother has made.

His actions do not reflect that of a Christian believer and have doubtlessly defamed my Lord and Savior's name with two exclamation points. Dang. Two. If Michelle passed on. anything to her kids in this moment i realize it's the exclamation points because do you remember how many exclamation points she had in her uh letter no hearts from him but He says, Joshua's poor decisions have greatly affected those around him, in particular his wife, seven children, and our family as a whole.

I will never stop loving my brother regardless of what he does just as my savior has forgiven me so I have forgiven my brother of his wrongdoings exclamation point again why anyways My prayer is that God will use this circumstance to truly humble him and bring about a true change in his life. Exclamation point. So again, I give him a little credit for that. Yeah.

And I give him credit and then I move on because he's a son of a bitch. Ready for the last? You know, there were some other ones, but I'm really just only going to highlight three. Okay.

Want to know who the last statement comes from? Is this the big finish? Bobye Holt coming in hot. Uh-oh, we have a Bobye sighting. so bobby got on instagram and she had a lengthy like caption i'm just kind of taking the last but i i'm i'm picking and choosing so because it was really really long but here are the things that i thought were Most important. So she says sentencing only five years would have been a spit in the face to the victims because he has been trusted, privileged, coddled.

protected, and favored his whole life, he's only gotten worse. She's coming out hot, man. There's a lot of mustard on that. He's really just been masquerading as someone else. No wonder he had letters of support. He has not occurred, has it not occurred to them that he's fooling them, but he has hoodwinked them. Exclamation. Hoodwinked. Hoodwinked.

I truly don't think even 20 years was enough when 19 hasn't been. No telling what he would have done next had he only gotten five years. But I truly feel Judge Brooks was a very... fair and considerate judge and had already considered considered all i listed above except the fact that some of his family has only enabled him damn so bobby was coming in a little hot there yeah uh

Nothing worth quoting, but I can just kind of give you the gist of it. So do you remember how he was courting their daughter?

yeah that was in that first special yeah yeah so she came out and she talked about it a little bit she kind of came yes okay so it's like damn bitch you you dodged a bullet she's got to be like like she's got to be so happy right now my god but she just you know she just said the typical just kind of like you know for the family blah blah blah blah and all this stuff but one thing that she just said is that she looked up um the birth date of their oldest daughter Mackenzie

and she is 12 years and seven months and that is exactly his sentence so she was just saying that she found that really kind of like interesting odd coincidence yeah so just something that she pointed out that i was like oh that is kind of interesting uh and then again actually maybe i can pull some up so do you remember the widow the that everybody talked about how it's like oh he gave all this money to like yeah yeah all these people talked about it

But letters from the widow weren't actually included in the... Remember, she didn't write one. Everybody else was writing one. Yeah. Kind of last minute, right before sentencing, she did end up writing one.

okay so in support of josh correct okay and was just talked about how she was just so you know so generous and she even talks about anna calling her recently and crying and saying that because of you know what's happening there she's no longer gonna be able to support her and she was just like oh i totally understood that so that's the gist of it but actually you might have to cause pause this for a little bit because i do want to read something so let's take a second so i can find it

So the first person to speak out in regards to the widow, Denise Wilson, is her son-in-law. So he says that, you know, it was revealed that his mother-in-law, under the manipulation... of anna duggar wrote a letter to the judge asking for leniency in the sentencing of josh neither i nor my wife knew she was planning to do this blah blah feel the need to make sure our position is made clear right My wife and I are in no way in favor of leniency or mercy towards any pedophile.

Status as a family member, former friendship, past good deeds, nor any other factor should be a consideration when dealing with such. We disavow the letter that was written by the aforementioned family member and find any defense of such a person reprehensible. Wow. We believe that the molestation of any child is worthy of the death penalty. So they went there. Damn. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they give some scriptures. The very last line is...

What awaits Josh Duggar in hell will be 10,000 times worse than anything a federal judge can come up with. Oh, damn. The hand of God. So they really went there. And then after that, you know. So they kind of cracked the seal on the Denise Wilson family. And then after that, like some of the other kids came forward and. They said evil people do good things probably more often than good people do. And that is exactly what Josh was doing. Working to make sure she...

He looked like the perfect Christian man to everyone around him, and thanks to obscene levels of brainwashing, he succeeded with hundreds of people. I believe that he deserves every minute of his sentence and more. And I am pleased that the judge did his job with this case. Wow. Um, and they also just go on to say like the Duggars, like, like kind of like the siblings, like they don't deserve this and stuff.

So anyways, that's kind of it. But I wasn't even going to throw that in there. But I'm like, it was pretty harsh. And I like it. But so they're more outside of this. But they're like, our mom or our mother-in-law wrote this letter. We don't want anything to do with this. Yeah. And I think it's interesting that under the manipulation of Anna. Yeah. Because I'm sure it was just like, well, he did all this. He pays for you. Like, I'm sure she did feel pressure to be like, oh, it was like the guilt.

like the you you definitely feel like and it turned on the guilt there to be like look at all this stuff we've done for you yeah i don't doubt it for a fucking second so yeah i'm glad i threw that in there because i think it's interesting it's like because this and just kind of like everybody was saying that this has affected more people like because now these completely you know Caleb Williams whether he committed statutory rape or not you know

Being lumped into something with this is a completely separate issue. He got lumped into this when he wasn't the one who did it. Josh did. Now this widow and her kids are feeling the need to have to say stuff. It's much more far-reaching than I think that.

they want to admit to themselves like who it's affecting so um just kind of regarding the sentencing i had this i shared the same sentiment on our instagram so this is kind of a repeat if you already been there but i know a lot of people wanted more but realistically was not going to happen right

he was not going to get 20 years because that's really reserved for like i said in the last episode for repeat offenders or like hands-on quote yeah people caught in the act yeah so we knew that wasn't going to happen and as much as we know that he did the you know we he molested prior it's not an actual conviction so on paper this is his first offense correct so i'm personally i'm happy with a 12 and a half i really thought it was going to be seven eight

Oh, yeah. I was setting myself up to be disappointed and have it be like seven. Yeah. You know, thinking that like Jim Bob was able to sway with the lawyer and some money and you know what I mean? So I got to say overall, I'm pleased. Yeah. Even though I know some people aren't. And the good thing about this is because this is a federal case, you don't get out so easily. Yeah. You have to serve at least 85 percent of your time. So that puts him at about like.

10 years minimum right so we got you know 10 years a lot of his kids will be adults by then um the younger ones will at least be 10 and like you know the one that he just had in this last year like a month before sentence he had like six weeks before sentencing is when they had their last child oh wow so that kid will be about 10 or 12 depending on when he gets out but at least they're not little little anymore they'll be old enough to know what the hell's going on i think that that's important

And yeah, and then after that, he's got 20 years of probation. Yeah. And I don't see that going well for him. No. You know, you're really. you're really watching that was one of the things that my brother-in-law that's the probation probation officer told me he's like especially with these like sex offenders they also get come you get a surveillance officer because they're like it's too much work for a

just a probation so that you know it's this team right and they're really watching you and he was just explaining to me how much like they give you have to give your schedule and if anything pings outside of that like they they literally run the reports and you know You're on a tight leash. So I think he's got a long time to go. So when you really put it into perspective, if he got the best of the best case scenario on everything, like only serves 10 years.

And so that's 2032, you know, and then if he really makes it the full 20 years of probation squeaky clean and doesn't get sent back for any reason at all, that's 2052. That's crazy. So it's kind of wild at this point to think of like, whoa, that's a substantial amount of time. He'll still be young when he gets out. That's something that Judge Brooks even mentioned. He's like, he'll be in your 40s. You're still going to be young.

But, you know, overall I'm pretty happy. Yeah. I think it could have – you like to see when, like, at least a modicum of justice is served in situations like this. So having – it and the way it did i think was satisfactory yeah and i think it's almost it ends up being perfect timing i i like that this is kind of over and done with

Hopefully my pest pimples can go away now. I'm so sick of these pest pimples all over my chin and having him like infiltrate my life too in the form of pussy pimples. But... You know, I'm glad that this can kind of be over. We'll have little updates, you know, finding out where he goes. But the bulk of it is done. Correct. And it's kind of.

poetic in a sense that it's happening at the same time that we're about to start the show like we're finishing up the the specials so i feel like next week when we'll be able to start the actual show which is better than the specials because it gets a little more into things

kind of just feels like a fresh start yeah um we'll get be able to get back to the deep dives that i really intended like we couldn't not talk about this stuff right now like you had to but we'll be able to get back into the deep dives the way i kind of intended them to be yeah kind of you know so I don't know. It's good. It's a big sigh of relief. And just move on to the next. Yeah. And I also feel like it's almost a natural transition into the next iteration of what this podcast is.

So obviously the first ones were special related. This is kind of something big that kind of ends that time. And then we'll move into kind of the same format, but I feel like it's just the second.

uh season of the podcast yeah and you really get to in the shows there's a lot more to like pick apart because you you see much more so much more people's personalities right so you there's a vast difference that you'll be able to pick up on pretty quick so all right i think that's it i know that was probably long i don't know where we're at right now but it's been a big week yes it has been and i'm just like oh

i'm glad it's over honestly like it was such the lead up like i'm just i'm glad it's over so it's like if i feel this way this is where i don't blame the siblings for not saying anything because i'm like can we just be over with this god if i feel this way how the fuck does ginger feel like you know like i i get it i totally get it so all right do the normal close out yeah uh Follow us on the socials, Instagram. Digging up the Duggars pod.

yeah so follow us on instagram um whitney does a really good job of kind of throwing some supplemental stuff in there so uh some shots screenshots from some of the episodes hopefully you can show what's her name's awful bangs oh you know i got it ready And we need to see the leisure suit. We need to see the blue leisure suit because I think that's important too. So pay attention on there. Once again, Apple Podcasts. We'd love to get a rating from you guys. Throw some stars on that.

We're starting to see a lot more traction out of Apple Podcasts. Yes, it actually pretty quickly took the lead. Yeah, so... Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify. We've seen a couple new countries this week. Finland, Poland, shout out. Switzerland, Denmark, or maybe Denmark. I don't know. But it's really exciting. We're dipping our toes into the European Union.

Once again, we will see you next week for the new season. Yes. New season of life, as they all like to say. They all call everything a season of life. Anyways. We'll see you next week. Signing out.