Episode 30 - Its Yee Haw Medieval Times

Mother is believing. At least I have a husband, you know. Does anybody here believe it? We are from Arkansas, no? So we are on episode 30. This is the Mason episode. Is that a Dillard? No, this is another Duggar. It's a Peston Anna. Okay. Kid. Before we get started, a couple things. So Tim has been sick, sick twice. I was fighting once, right?

I was sick for like four and a half weeks straight and never stopped. And in there, I was like fighting it off, but I was never full blown. I am full blown sick. Yep. I am sleep 13 hours. what i can't even think right i can't even think right now like i just blanked out her body's like 44 uh cold medicine right now i'm hopped up um this morning i woke up and the pressure in my head is like nothing i've ever experienced so if i sound weird

If I'm a little laggy, this is why we're still trying to get this through, but I am not feeling so hot today. It's a rough one. But before we get started on the actual episode, I did...

I have to do a little podcast I listen to. They call it Corrections Corner. I have to do a little Corrections Corner. I'm actually honestly surprised nobody last week that I didn't get messages or something. seriously i was like so in the beginning i thought that i wouldn't listen to our podcast that was stupid i don't know why i thought that i thought that i'd be like i can't listen to myself i'll drive myself crazy but now i'm like i have to listen because i have to hear

how stupid I sound every mistake I make like I have to know yeah I feel like you're the opposite of that yeah I feel like you would do that and harp on little things so I listen to our podcast because I have to hear how big of a fucking idiot I am and harp on little things Last week, I was headed to my job where I work with my friend.

And I listened to one part and I was like screaming at myself in the car. I was like, no, no. And then like I brought it up again in another part of the episode and I was like, fuck. And I haven't heard from anybody. Nobody called me out. Well, the internet doesn't tell you when you do things wrong, do they? Never. No. Never.

You didn't get um-actually'd by anybody? I didn't, and I was expecting it. Huh, okay. So there was a point in last week's episode where when I was talking about, and like, you didn't catch it either. Nobody caught it. Or maybe people did and they didn't, but I was expecting messages. Maybe they were so... That they didn't even realize. That's got to be it. So at the point where I was talking about some of the bills with Lego.

And also just like some of his stances when he was running for Senate and stuff. Do you remember how when I was talking about one of his stances for Senate was that he thought that rapists. and people like you know like with the incest that they should be killed instead of the unborn baby yes like so instead of abortion you should kill that person yeah i immediately said that he was out there killing women

And then at another point later on, I also brought it up later and I said, out here killing them. Because here's what happened. I was only telling you guys a couple of.

his like bills and like things like that my mind was confusing it with one that i didn't share but there was a bill that he was proposing that would make abortion a capital murder offense so my brain was kind of like combining it all together correct and i kept and i can't believe people were like what the are you talking about because that wasn't what i was saying and then that's what i was following it up with so anyways hope you guys haven't lost complete trust in my you know my reporting

but yeah so i what he he was saying that the rapist should be killed but he does think that abortion should be considered capital murder so i mean it's all the same thing but i hadn't actually shared that so Anyways, a little corrections corner there for a minute. That was very strong of you to admit that. I know.

But I was seriously screaming at myself. I was like, oh my god, no! I remember hearing when I did the listen before we posted. A little bit of behind the scenes. I'll listen to... most if not all of the episode and then that's how we come up with the um the title of the episode is kind of with that second listen through so um i heard it but

I could also infer what you were trying to say based off of the context of it. So even though I felt like, yes, the statement itself was incorrect, I think everybody knew what you were talking about. Well, here, I'm the person that I still think back to episode two, where there was a thing that I brought up in the deep dive that I never connected back later. Still drives me insane.

You mean the episode where the audio was real bad? Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one. So yeah, it'll drive me insane until the end of time. So this one, I was like, I got to give a corrections corner so that I can sleep tonight. The fact that you thought you wouldn't listen to these episodes is hilarious. I know. Who was that? I was like, you know, probably a couple weeks ago, I was just like really busy. Normally, I just listen to like...

Tim takes care of like the listening to it for getting like the name and if something needs to be adjusted or whatever. So I normally don't listen to it until it's out on Wednesday or whatever the day is kind of with the rest of everybody. I put it on while I'm like. clean you know doing stuff or like whatever correct and there was one week a couple like probably a month ago where i was kind of busy and but going two three days without listening to it i was fucking stressed

Like, I was just like, oh, my God. Like, then I realized, oh, yeah, like, I have to listen. Like, I can't not. I have to know what's out there. It's because it is a form of putting yourself out there. Like, I have to hear what I've put out there. But yeah, so fucking comical that I ever thought I'd be like, oh, I just don't listen. I think that's the easy thing to say, you know. Big nope.

Okay, anyway, so the actual episode is called Duggar's Big Thaw, and it premiered April 14th, 2009. So the episode starts with the same scene. with ginger that we saw last week where she says that they're on day six without power but now the baits are headed their way because gill has a tree service so he will come and help them with all like the downed trees on their property

Because, you know, who doesn't automatically think of adding 18 more people into the mix when you have no electricity? Of course. Seems like a no brainer, really. Like, I mean, natural decision. Well, Boob doesn't have to take care of any of them or try to feed any of them. So what does he care? He's getting the trees off his property.

So Kelly Jo is saying how the Duggars are really relaxed about all the kids playing and the noise and how it's just a joy to see all the camaraderie between the kids. And then immediately after that, TLC does what they do. And right after Kelly's saying like all these nice things, Michelle says, the wonderful thing about hosting the bass is that they do all the work.

They come and they cook food and they clean and we just enjoy their fellowship. Did that... First of all, did... Did the Bates lady's statement seem like a little bit of shade? Where she was like, they seem fine with all the noise and the kids. Oh, I didn't take it that way. I took it as her being like, oh, they run a hectic household.

Oh, see, yeah, I didn't take it that way, I guess. But all I could think of was, of course, Michelle's on board with having as many people around as possible to do all the things that she never would ever do. so she's like cool more people you know uh more people to do all you know give jill and janna a break yeah you know um in a talking head gill says he's saying how no we shouldn't come you don't have power we don't want to be a burden and that they were like no no you'd be a blessing come

And then it flashes to a talking head of Baby Cannon saying, I honestly tell them our house is cleaner when you're there. I know. It's like, no wonder Michelle doesn't mind having them over. She's like, this is an opportunity. She doesn't have to do anything extra.

Yeah, she's like, this is her idea of being nice and giving Jill and Jana a little bit of a break. After all, I mean, they have been doing this for six days now. You know, no power. So if she has the bates come, they can pass it off to Aaron, Alyssa, and Michaela. And she's just like...

Like, this is her idea of giving her girls a break. She's just like, no, come, come. It's great. You'll clean our house. It's great. It's great. Right. I will say that they did this thing where all the Bates kids were lined up and then all in like a.

in the line and then in a perpendicular line all the Duggar kids were lined up and they like ran the camera like up and down the lines and one of the things I noted was that the Girls of the Bates family are no longer in the prairie dresses. Yes, they have since. They have graduated to a fourth grade reading teacher in the 90s. Denim jumpers. Denim, yep.

jumper sleeveless with like white shirts underneath like it's very so they've made their way made their way up i feel like i had this teacher in fourth grade So then they kind of give some glimpses into more stuff from the last episode, like how they have things hooked up to the bus generator.

But before they just kind of showed it being used for the washer and dryer. But now there are actually nine extension cords running various things all over the house. Like the fridges and freezers and heaters. Because now it's not freezing outside anymore. So they actually need to. Power of the freezing units, yeah. They also sort of rehash how Jordan was in the hospital, but mention how she was in there for five days, which I don't remember them saying last time to you. They didn't. Okay.

i wasn't sure if i just missed it but yeah so i guess it was pretty serious if she ended up having to be admitted and stay for five days correct um just because she's so young she's only six weeks old and she got that cold and was having

trouble breathing right they just kind of rehash some of those things then in the next scene um they're filming pest and anna at the car lot and the camera guy asks if they're actively trying to conceive Anna looks like embarrassed and she kind of makes like an awkward like face and then shakes her head and like kind of like yes but like in like a like looking up kind of like awkward kind of way. Yeah.

But Pest says, we're doing our part. We're not doing anything to try to stop it. So that's what we'll say. And he laughs, of course. She has a really good resting, awkward face. It's like the epitome of what we've talked about. Like, smile sweetly. Yeah. Like, you could tell it's there, but in her eyes. You can read it all in her eyes. Yep. Then it shows Anna taking a pregnancy test out of a desk drawer.

in the car lot office with her voiceover saying how she'd taken several tests before and they'd always been negative but what i really want to know if this was like completely staged or if that was like really in the drawer you know what i mean yeah like because i could see it going both ways i could totally see tlc being like okay now pull this test out of the drawer or they're so

They're such a fucking pregnancy-obsessed cult. I could also see them having fucking tests everywhere. Because at this point, she's playing up the part of helping him at the car lot. So it's like she could. I put in there that they recorded Anna saying more things than she's ever said on this show. Oh, yeah. And I feel like this was their way of testing the waters of like, could we spin this off?

into like a josh and anna spinoff like i felt like that's what they're they're like let's see what audiences feel about anna well they never got a spinoff i think it's just a whether or not it's like can you do this you know yeah

So in Anna's talking head, she says that the Duggar sisters are always asking her, is it time yet? Are you pregnant? Have you taken a test? You should really take a test. Which is just a testament to what I was just saying, that they're all so fucking pregnancy obsessed. Mind you, they've been married four whole months. So the clock is really ticking. Oh, yeah. Clearly, they haven't been trying hard enough because, you know, four months. Please.

So with all this disappointment Anna has experienced in the last four months, she's decided she's going to pee on the stick, but leave it in the bathroom for Pess to read instead of her. It flashes to a talking head of Michelle saying, believe it or not, there were times in our marriage I would get a pregnancy test and it would be negative and I would be disappointed. Nobody else was.

And let me tell you, I'm glad she started that off with believe it or not. Because as her opener, because I do find it hard to believe that Michelle has seen many negative. Pregnancy test in the course of her life. makes for a story though you know oh yeah which is they they it's always the story with them it they love a story of struggle so you know for her it's probably like three whole times in 21 years that she had a negative test but oh

The struggle. She's so strong. Bless her heart. She was so disappointed three whole times. Three times. But it just sounds so good. Of course. How do you feel about... Anna doing the leave the test and you look for it like do you feel like it felt so weird to me

Just the idea that I'm going to do this, but you're my headship. It felt very much you're my headshippy. Oh, see, I didn't take it like that. I just took it as like, oh, I just can't take another negative test, so you look. I didn't take it headshippy.

I have a statement later on that kind of reinforces why I think that way. So Anna pees on the stick and has Josh go in to see the results and tells him, supposedly, to tell her the results whenever he felt... like he should tell her so crew wasn't around at the moment i when he was going to tell her so josh ended up calling a producer and he tells them they might want to come over and film something

So this producer and a single camera guy show up at Josh and Anna's house with Pest. So Pest comes walking in and then the camera guy comes walking in because none of the other crew was available. Right. So it's like Anna's at the... sink like washing dishes or something and then they all come walking it's like what do you think this little big surprise what does Anna think is happening like so Josh and Anna sit down on the couch and Pess says I have some news for you

You've joined the mommy team. The mommy team. That's what he came up with. The mommy team. He had time to think about this and that's what he came up with? You've joined the mommy team. Oh, man. Fucking lame. Couldn't come up with anything better. So they hug really awkwardly. So just regular hugging for them. Yeah, I was going to say.

And then there's some high-pitched moments of Anna calling him baby that I was not emotionally prepared for. Did you notice? Where she was like, baby! And I was like, oh, I was not prepared for this. And her saying, congratulations, daddy. Yeesh. And then they end up calling Anna's family within a few minutes with the news. And they end up talking to, I guess, like one of her brothers and sister.

That's what it sounds like. And it was pretty funny, though, because whoever it was on the other end, the guy said, man, that DVD and book must have really worked. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was pretty funny. It's so bad. Yeah.

thing that reinforced the way that I thought. The fact that it was him telling her when he felt it was the right time was weird to me. But the... The linchpin of all of it was the fact that when he was talking to her about it, he kept saying, you're pregnant. You're going to have a kid.

you're pregnant and when she was telling him kind of as they were like hugging and awkwardly kissing and blah blah blah she kept saying we're gonna be parents we're gonna have a kid I thought that was very telling

I didn't even notice. Yeah. She was very much like, we're pregnant. We're going to have a kid. Don't think they're expecting, though. They don't say pregnant. They say expecting. Something like that, yeah. They don't say the word pregnant. They say, we're expecting. Yeah. But his was you.

Hers was we. I didn't notice that, but I still don't feel like her telling him to tell her whenever she was ready was a head shipping thing. I think it was her just being like, I just can't take the disappointment. So Gil and Jim Bob and some of the Bates boys are at Josh's house that day cutting down some of his trees that were down during the storm. And so he's having to keep it a secret from his dad in the meantime until the family is all together.

The next scene is the next day. And Jim Bob is announcing to both families that Grandpa Duggar's 73rd birthday is that day. So they'll be having a little birthday party. So Jana is shown making a banana cake, which is grandpa's favorite. And I gotta say, I've seen the recipe for their banana cake. It's cake. It's like cake mix.

with vanilla pudding with sliced bananas on top don't you think it should at least be banana banana pudding yeah like it always kind of wears me out where i'm just like so the only thing banana on it like is the banana cake and a slice i'm like i should at least be banana pudding i know this is not something that's that deep

some reason it bothers me very much like at least you banana pudding it's like when they can some you know manufacturers can say that there's made with real fruit juice and you look and it's like 2% real fruit juice. It's all the same powder. Go to the right. You're getting the vanilla. Go to the right and get the banana. Whitney's outraged about this pudding debacle. Yeah. Fucking. Can't call that banana cake. Jesus.

So then they're doing a camera panning shot of all the base kids in a line from youngest to oldest. And then the camera moves from the Duggars kids, youngest to oldest. And when the camera pans to Josh and Anna... Josh says, we have a little announcement to make. As of yesterday, we found out that we are expecting. And of course, clapping and cheering ensues.

And then comes the cringy part where Jessa says, quote, I think he'll be a really good dad. I mean, he's had a lot of experience with little kids. That is the worst quote.

in all of these episodes of this podcast that we've done that is the award and there's been a lot of doozies like there's been some some goods but that one i literally re-watched it a lot of experience with little kids oh I was like oh Jessa that's quite the quote there oh man Then it's just a bunch of the kids and stuff all saying the same kind of shit about how they think they'll be great parents because they've both come from large families, blah, blah, blah, like all that shit, yada, yada.

But I like when they ask little Jackson, our little dancing king, what he thinks of them having a baby. And he says, it's crazy. It's like, you tell him, Jackson. You said a mouthful, buddy. You tell him. There was... a point in those talking heads where I looked and I said, what kid is this? And then I looked, it was Joseph. And I put that this is the most we've heard Joseph say in this entire show.

He's the one that wears the Our Apostles or that you think is John David. Yeah. Joseph is a simple guy. Can you tell? Simple Joseph? He's very simple. He's pretty harmless. He's pretty deep in it just because I think he doesn't know any better, but ultimately I think he's kind of harmless because he's a simple guy. He's a miracle whip on Wonder Bread.

Yes. And I don't want to sit here calling anybody stupid, so I say simple. Because I don't know that I necessarily mean stupid, but he's just simple. Now, do you feel... that he seems not as, like, stand, like, he doesn't stand out as much because he's amongst a fucking circus, or is it because he's just kind of just a dude? I think he's just kind of just a dude. Okay. And he just... I don't think he's very uncomplicated. Things are just... Like, I don't know. He just...

He's a single scoop of vanilla ice cream. Which is even funnier because one of the ways that his wife tells him she's pregnant one time is with vanilla ice cream in a bowl. It's funny you say that. Really funny. Yeah, he's just kind of like...

i don't know he's just kind of there like and harmless like there's other ones where you're like oh you're in it but like you think that they've got i don't think there's anything nefarious there at all he's just kind of there anyways a whole sidestep on joseph So the next part made me very uncomfortable. Lego is wheeling Grandpa Duggar out, but not in a wheelchair. No, that's probably too expensive.

And he couldn't find one he used to save the difference. So instead, Boob is, he lives up to his, you know, name of being a boob. And he wheels him out in an office chair. Yep. I feel like this goes without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway. Office chairs are not meant to be modes of transportation to transport people. Yeah. Even if they do have wheels. Yeah.

And grandpa's at a point where he's not super functional. Oh, no, he's not well at all. So being an office chair, not meant to transfer sick and dying people. There's no place for his feet to go. So Lego is just like, yeah, he's just dragging grandpa along and his feet are dragging on the floor. Like, yeah. Yeah. And then.

Doing all this, Boobs like, look, look, look who's here. And Michelle goes, the birthday boy. And it's just weird and really uncomfortable to me how he's literally being dragged out and paraded. In front of everyone. And he's completely out of it. And Boob is now. Starting to give his little speech. About it being his birthday. And James pipes in and says. He lost his shoe. And the camera pounds.

pans down to grandpa like missing a slipper, which he lost because he was being dragged through the house in an office chair, by the way. and boob tries to quickly move on and he just says yeah he lost a shoe and then keeps you know keeps going let's get back to the part where i'm saying something important Yeah. But he did seem kind of annoyed that he pointed that out. He was just like, yeah, he lost his shoe. Yeah. Why are you not paying attention to me saying the important things?

And then they drag him over to the table and put the cake with candles in front of him. This bullshit banana cake. And this is the first time either they've shown it or I've noticed.

I think it's the first time they've really shown it, but you can see the mass on his head. Oh, yeah. That big bola. Yeah. I think in everything that we've seen before, he's kind of been on the other side. Like the way he was laying in the bed before. And you're like, oh, it's... big yeah like and i was like oh this is like sad like it was really really sad um and the whole scene just really breaks my heart he's just out of it and his eyes are closed half the time

and it's just sad and i feel bad that he has a fucking camera in his face and like literally being dragged out yeah there's something about the way they were dragging him out in that chair that i was just like this just feels gross yeah now have you ever been around

family that is in this state like growing up not i can't say it like this exactly okay because i had there's multiple things my dad has family in Texas that we would go visit and they had somebody in their like generation of cousins that was kind of like that and um I've been around a couple older way older relatives that have kind of been that way where once again they

bring them in a wheelchair to a family event. And then as a kid, they're like, oh, go give your Theo whatever a hug. And it's always so weird. Now, I'm in the middle ground where I do definitely feel...

Like we kind of shy away from a lot of stuff around death and like getting older just in like Western society. There was a podcast I was listening to today about there's a. one culture in Southeast Asia that like brings their, before they send them to get like their end of like last rites, like buried, whatever it is, like they take pictures with them.

so like it's it's like the oh well you need to get grandpa's clothes ready for us to take this picture even though he's kind of already dead you know um so i i think it should be a thing where kids are kind of understanding of what happens when a being passes away but This was a little rough to watch. Well, it's not even just their own family. They're parading in front of 18 other fucking people. The Bates are there, too. He's not even in a wheelchair. He's in a fucking office chair.

And it's like, if that was something you were going to do, just don't show him being dragged through the house. Show him sitting at the table. Yeah, and maybe just don't even put this on the show, period. Maybe do this privately. I don't know. To me, it's gross.

I think it's even worse, too, because we've seen him in another state. Yeah, he's declined very rapidly. Yeah, and it's like him standing in the foyer when they're talking to them about what did you feel when... uh lego and baby cannon were having all these kids and he was throwing a little bit of shade you know think about it remember how he was the one that answered the door when josh and anna came back and that was in what june

This is now January. Yeah. So he declined a lot in six months. Yeah. Poor grandpa.

So now after eight days, their power is finally back on as the electric company has finally made it out to fix the fallen power line that leads to their house. So most of their power is back on. There's still some stuff that has to be. They have to have something done to their panel. But for the most part, most of it's on.

Now Gil Bates is talking about how he worked for Nabisco for seven years as a sales rep, but that he wanted his boys to have more skills and even says that as he was preparing for college, his own father said, quote, You need to go out, get yourself a skill, and then you can go off to college. But Gil said he didn't understand the importance of it. But eventually, Gil went from window washing to lawn care to the tree business that he has now.

And the episode closes out with Gil and some of the older boys, the Bates boys, doing more work on the trees. And that's kind of it. Yeah. Do you have anything else? No. One thing that was mentioned was John David. And they were saying that he's Gil Bates was saying that he's really resourceful and that when when they need to, like, figure a problem out, he's really technical about.

He was the one that came up with the idea of attaching all that stuff to the bus so they could have it where they didn't have to keep refilling generators every hour. you know yeah i think at the end of all john david isn't a complete dummy so you know And you can kind of see it in, at least I've seen it in other episodes. He may like disco balls in the bathroom connected to flashlights, but he knows how to hook up a generator. That's correct. I do think it's...

Interesting to watch the dynamic, though. He's not the firstborn, and he isn't going to get the limelight as the second oldest male child. So it's kind of that thing where it's like, you got to be resourceful because you're not going to get any attention, you know? Yeah. So obviously there's a lot of middle children in this family. It's not hard to be a middle child here.

Exactly. But it is interesting to watch. And there's several almost like... subgenres yeah like almost like separate eras where it's like you're the middle of this you're the middle of this you're the middle of that there's so many different yeah there's the middle of this pack of boys there's this middle of that the true middle then there's you know there's just a lot of middles yeah

It's wild. All right. We're going to take one tiny little break. Remedicate. We'll be back in a minute. Yep. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online. And more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our U.S.-based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back.

Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans, or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. I just... I have a honey bear right here. Honey. And I'm just like, I just put the honey bear directly drizzled into my mouth, hopefully to coat my throat.

We'll see if I can get through a deep dive. That was a Christmas present for me. Oh, yeah. Getting to watch that. Yep. Okay, so today's deep dive is an overview of the Bates family.

Considering this is now the second time that we've seen them, I thought it was appropriate that now we just get a little bit of their backstory. A lot of seasoned snarkers may know a lot of these things already, but our job as... veteran snarkers is to inform the rookies such as tim so that's what we're here for so let's start with gil

William Gilvin Bates. So that's where the Gil comes from. Gilvin. Gilvin. No. Didn't see that one coming. William Gil. What did you think it was? Gilbert. Oh, yeah. I didn't even. That didn't even occur to me. I don't even know what I thought. I was just like, huh. I don't think I even had a thought to it. I was all Joe. Very simple with that. I was just like, oh. So.

William Gilvin Bates was born to Bill and Jane on January 1st, 1965. Gil was the oldest of three. They went on to have his brother Greg and his sister Jennifer. Okay. Gil's dad was a magistrate judge in South Carolina where they lived, which just FYI, in case you're wondering, magistrate just means that he handles like very low level crimes.

That's nothing like super serious. It's like nothing over $500 in fees and like nothing more than 30 days in jail type thing. So very low level, nothing serious. His mother, Jane, was a nurse. um and actually just kind of i just from what i i watched like the early seasons of their show i'm not so much in the later i need to catch up on that but his parents were actually really funny i do have to say like whenever they always go to his parents for

Thanksgiving and like they kind of just like tell like it is and they're always like all these kids everywhere like they're just they always seem like super like oh my god these these kids are like they're fun when they're here but we're happy to see them go right so they're not part of iblp no okay And I do specifically remember a scene where I can't remember exactly what was happening.

But, like, because, like, especially his mom, she really just kind of said whatever the fuck she wanted. They were asking her a question. Like, you know, producers are, like, asking a question. And I think she was starting to say something about just, like, oh, all the kids. And, like, literally her husband is literally.

like nudging her with this elbow where he's kind of like shut the fuck up like you know but yeah they were just kind of funny because they just kind of call it like they see it and they're like and it's not in a mean way but they're just kind of like all these damn kids like But it's a fun kind of way. So when Gil was in the third grade, his parents bought a 72-acre farm that they still live on today.

Each child was given eight acres, and while his two other siblings have built on their land, Gil still has not done anything with his parcel. But he does have eight acres. Okay. Of their land. Gil was really into sports as a kid. They said that starting at like age two, he was already like all about wearing. like jerseys and stuff and by eight he was like playing and he took this with him into his high school years

where he ended up being the starting quarterback, as well as being the 1983 South Carolina state wrestling champion. Wow. Do you look at Gil and see wrestling? Because I kind of do. I do. You know, you look at him and you're like short, stocky. Yeah. You're like Gil definitely gives off that wrestling vibe. Yeah. Gilvin. Gilvin Bates. In a roundabout way, sports is also what led him into a deeper into religion. In the 10th grade, his coach began operating a chapter of...

Fellowship for Christian Athletes. We had one of those at Peoria. I totally remember that. I specifically remember having a couple friends that were in that group that ran track.

And they were like, you should come and be a part of this group. And I was like, okay, but I'm not really an athlete. And they were like... you're in marching band like i think they were just trying to get their like numbers up because and don't get me wrong a huge workout so i i will fight that fight that marching band was a very very big undertaking

But I don't know if it was enough to put me in the... Fellowship of Christian athletes. Exactly, yeah. So growing up, Gil and his family attended a Methodist church. But he described it as being more out of habit and tradition than anything else. But it was after hearing the gospel from his coach that was the, you know, the founder of that chapter, that Gil said, quote,

God transformed me, my goals and the direction for my life. He then asked his parents if it would be okay if he began attending a Baptist church and they did say yes. Okay.

Now let's talk about the early life of Kelly Jo. Kelly was born on October 26, 1966, and Kelly was the fourth and final child of Kenneth and Betty Callahan. She had an older brother, Chip, who's actually like a Kenneth Jr., but he went by Chip. And she had sisters Kay and Kim. So they were all Ks, actually, Kenneth. Kenneth, Kay, Kim, Kelly. You know, all the K's. Oh, God. It's a thing.

So Kenneth was a Methodist pastor and Betty was an elementary school teacher, then a high school teacher, and then finally turned librarian. Okay. When Kelly Jo was in the third grade, her parents divorced and her older siblings moved to Tennessee with her mom while Kelly stayed behind in South Carolina and she ended up living with her dad. Okay. So that's kind of different from what you typically hear, especially kind of of that era. But yeah, so she was separated from her siblings and her mom.

so her mom remarried and actually she ends up remarrying several times she had like a husband die and like i think she ended up being married four times total oh my frequent flyer but um then the first time that she remarried Kelly gained three stepbrothers. So being a preacher's kid, as Kelly calls it, Kelly Jo had always heard the gospel, and she said she feared dying unsaved.

but says it wasn't until the ninth grade that it all really set in for her. She said, quote, I believed in God and had respect for those that did. However, I had no conviction of my own personal sin. I had always thought of myself as a good person but at a youth meeting I finally was broken over the guilt of my sin and realized that it was my awful sin that Christ had died for.

That realization changed my life, which I fucking hate everything about that. Like the whole like being a good person just, you know, is never enough. Right. And it's like. All your sins, no matter how small they are, get blown up into this big, huge thing so that you can be humbled and broken. Correct. As the awful sinner that you are. I just fucking hate all that.

Because it makes the saving more important because it's like, look at this shit bag I used to be and why this is so important. You had to be broken by all of your awful sins. I always think back to the story that you told of somebody on a retreat, on a church retreat, and they were like, what awful thing do you feel bad for? And whoever it was was like, I...

I don't think I have anything. I don't think I have anything that I feel awful about. Yeah, but you have to because you must. You must. You have to have that story of being saved. So you have to have something to tell.

Okay, so now let's shift into their post high school lives. Both Gil and Kelly ended up attending the Anderson University in South Carolina, which is a private Christian university with Baptist affiliations. Okay. Kelly majored in human services with a minor in special education, while Gil went for a degree in teaching as he hoped to become a teacher and a coach. He wanted to have his own, you know, chapter for Christian. Yeah. So Gill and Kelly, they ended up on the same ministry team.

So it sounds like they had some real poppin' extracurricular activities there. Ooh, man. But they really started spending time together after Kelly tutored Gil in chemistry. She was the lab assistant in chemistry, so she tutored him. Oh, there was chemistry already. Oh, yes. With the old Gilvin over there. The two began dating, and later together they transferred to Carson Newman University in Tennessee, which is, go figure, yet another private Baptist university.

They were still in school, but nearing the end when Gil proposed in October of 1987, and they tied the knot in December of 1987. Okay. So now we can get to the family stuff. They're both young when they got married, like 22 and 21. And initially, they planned to wait five years before having children. In fact, Gil said he didn't even really like kids that much.

And Kelly planned to have to focus on her career. She said, quote, I always told my family I wasn't going to have any children. I was very career oriented. I said if I did have any children, I was going to have two. Ooh, that didn't work out so much. Nope. Well, that five-year plan didn't quite pan out either because Kelly ended up pregnant just a mere three months after getting married. Oh, they beat past the Nana.

Sure did. No wonder she's under such, you know, panic. She was like, four months. Four months. Then when Zach, who was her firstborn, was just four months old, she got pregnant again. With their daughter, Michael. And it just went from there. Obviously, Kelly is a fertile myrtle, if you will. Gil said it was with their third child, Aaron, that he, quote, got excited about having children.

Which I'm sure is awesome for poor Zach and Michael to hear, where they're like, cool. He wasn't excited with us, but then Aaron came along and they're like, I might be excited about this. Those first two were real dorks, am I right? Now I'm excited. That third one, though. Yep. Sure, that's great to hear. Do you think that's how Mildred feels about Momo? Oh, maybe. Like, Momo was our first cat. Little side story to give.

Whitney's throat of breath and some context. When we got together, she had a cat, and I wasn't allowed to have animals when I was a kid. I remember telling her that I'm not, I've never, I'd never really been around cats. He acted like he was like, he's like, well, I'm not really a cat person. I'm like, oh, you will be.

Well, the only cat I had been around was my Aunt Diane's, and it was always kind of a jerk. It had catitude hard. Like, I couldn't go over to it without it hissing at me. And I wasn't like, yeah. So I always felt like I wasn't a cat person, but not by choice. I just never really been around a cat that was like loving. But then he fell deep in love with Momo. I remember it was one time because I was sitting on the love seat that was at their old house.

And I had one leg up on the couch and then the other one was like curled under to make like a triangle. And she came out and kind of looked at me and I was like, hi. And she jumped up and she curled up into that little triangle of my knee. And it was. And it was all gone from there. Yep, he loved her. I always said that I was... Momo and I were like Lorelai and Rory. I was 16 when I had her. She was like my best friend.

We had that kind of friend-mother-daughter relationship. You lived in a sleepy autumn town, and you ran a bed and breakfast. We always ate at a diner. Yep. So... Just really quick, I did want to insert that shortly after Gil and Kelly got married, Kelly's mother, Betty, started to feel lonely. So at the age of 50, she adopted a baby girl. Oh, damn.

And then a year later, she adopted another baby girl so that the first one would have like a sister to grow up with. So they have a friend. Yep. So Kelly has two younger adopted sisters that are the same ages as her oldest kids. Hmm.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw that in there because it's part of the timeline. Yeah. So I'm not entirely sure when this happened, but if you remember from the last episode with the Bates... Kelly was the one that came to Gil and said that she thought that they should leave the number of kids they have up to God. And that's when Gil was like, you can't do that. You'll have 20 kids. Yeah. Just minus one.

and so gill and kelly they kind of pull the same shit as lego and michelle with the whole we studied the bible and it says children are a blessing like like what the fuck else was it possibly gonna say like you know like what was it gonna say children are like you know Kids are a real drag. You're not, am I right? Like, what do they think the Bible's going to fucking say about kids? Shout out, I just started following an Instagram page that's called Kids Are The Worst.

And it's kind of satire, but it is kind of funny. That's what that reminds me of. So on the Bates old website, under a section called, why do you have so many children? They have a part where they say, quote, if God said he would give us some blessings and we didn't know that that meant children, would we say, let me wait a few years and please only give me a few?

If those blessings came in the form of money, we'd all say fill the pot. I just don't think any of these things are the same at all. No, no. I also feel like, you know. To me, the idea is that God. created us and gave us brains to like make decisions and stuff too so i think it's so funny to me that they were like we're gonna put this all to god we're gonna put this all to god i'm like what if god was like hey make a fucking decision for yourself yeah

It's very opportunistic. I mean, it just sounds exhausting that God's involved with everybody's every little thing. How many kids they're going to have, what they're going to fucking eat, what computers they're going to buy. Like, it just sounds exhausting. What computer they're going to buy? Am I going to run for office? Because you remember how I was like, you know, pray about like big purchases. I don't think God has time for all this shit. You know what?

make up your own fucking mind on how many fucking kids you're gonna have go do some price matching like he's like hold on jim bob might run for senate i gotta be here for these three uh coin flips yeah exactly So here's another interesting quote from Kelly during an interview that she said, quote, we didn't know this was the road that God was going to take us on when we got married. We didn't plan on having a big family.

I think that was something that God started to place on our hearts to have children. Then he had to teach us how to love them because it was easy for us to be selfish and have our free time. and the extra money in the pocket to do whatever we wanted. I can remember a time when we both prayed for God to give us the love for children he had because we realized we did not have that.

Really fucking weird that they kind of repeatedly are saying that they didn't really like it. Yeah. It's kind of weird. And I also feel like the idea of... oh we had money and we could go and do what we wanted selfish god not being in it's like they're making it sound like not being in fucking poverty makes you selfish number one and then just be like oh we just didn't have the love for children and god had to like make us he had to teach us

God had to teach you how to like, maybe that means you weren't supposed to have kids, which is ironic because we'll get to in a second. I feel like they do better with their kids in the Duggars, but it's just this whole weird thing of like. if you if it had to be that forced where god had to really teach you to like want and love children maybe maybe you shouldn't have like yeah it's weird

So like the Duggars, there doesn't seem to be this clear time that we can tell that they joined IBLP. Okay. With the Duggars, we sort of put two and two together between when they spoke of first attending a financial. freedom seminar and then with the whole homeschooling thing so that's how we kind of were like we think it was around this time correct well with debates it's even less clear

Kelly Jo has mentioned that they didn't start wearing skirts with the girls until Alyssa was born, which was their sixth child, which would have been in 1994. Okay. So best I can tell is maybe that's when they got into IBLP. It's not very clear, but that's kind of the guess I'm making. Because if that's not the case, that is really weird to be like...

We're just wearing whatever about when we get to the sixth kid. Okay, it's time for skirts. Yeah, because remember, she wanted something that was pleasing to the Lord. Remember that? So now we're skipping ahead quite a bit. As we've seen, at some point, they met and became friends with the Duggars, which got them some more attention and notoriety.

In 2012, they landed their own show on TLC titled United Bates of America, but it only lasted one eight-episode season. Do you know why it only lasted? I think they just... Just low ratings? Yeah, it just wasn't... There was nothing big crazy. They just didn't keep up with it. I think that the Duggars were like, they're like, oh, we'll try this out. And then it was like, eh, this isn't hitting as hard. That's a good name, though.

United Bates of America. I think that's pretty funny. So in 2013, Gil became a board member for IBLP, which he is still on. today well there's nothing that um there's not a lot of information surrounding that like i don't know maybe i'll i i mean i didn't dig dig dig since this was just one portion of all of this but i haven't been able like i might look at some point but

I don't even know how that comes to be, really. So I'll have to look into that more. But as of today, he's one of three members. The board has gotten considerably smaller over the years. So he's just one of three now. Damn. In 2015, though, they were given another show, this time titled Bringing Up Bates, and then it was on the Up Faith and Family Network. Oh. So. So they've moved beyond those gross, secular TLC people? Yes, now they're on a... So, of course, it's...

Much smaller. So the Bates never hit the notoriety that the Duggars did, A, because they had no pest-type scandal. So that's a good thing that they didn't ever hit that level of notoriety. But also just because... That's a small Christian network. Not as much reach, not as much marketing. But for the type of network it was, it was pretty successful. They were the hot ticket.

Yes. What was the network called? Up. Yeah, I've never even heard of that. Yeah. So it's like how many cable packages that you've got had the Up network? Up, faith and family. How many households were they reaching? right so they're probably the big name for up network but for the rest of the world it's like debate two you know so they never quite hit that that level so just keeping in um

Going on the timeline. Now let's go to January 6, 2020. Lawson and Trace Bates were at the Trump rally that preceded the insurrection at the Capitol. They had it in their Insta stories of them while they're at it. And then, of course, quickly took it down. Since then, they have said that they were only at the rally. They didn't actually go.

to the capital and all that stuff people of course were calling on up network being like you need to you need to cancel them you know whatever um up says that they looked into it and from everything they can tell they didn't actually attend the insurrection um lawson and trace have said since then oh no you know we we don't promote violence blah blah blah but still not a good look yeah really not a good not a good look no okay so back to the show

So the show aired for 10 seasons and was partway through filming season 11 with a premiere date set for February of 2022 when suddenly in January of 2022 The network announced the show's cancellation. Okay. Up Network claimed it was because in the new year, they planned to focus more on movies and scripted TV shows.

But we all know that that's a crock of shit because when you have basically an entire season filmed and in the bag, you don't just up and cancel it when you spent all that time and money. Correct. In the can. So it makes no sense. Yep. So this season, season 11 of Bringing Up Bates, is kind of like the Lost Duggar season when they canceled the show with the first pest scandal. Completely filmed season that we never got to see. Damn.

Did an archive somewhere. So why was the show canceled? The most obvious reason is that there was a video on Instagram. It was actually on Carlin's Instagram of the family playing charades. lawson was the one doing like the pantomiming type thing okay and he did like a like a shooting type movement and somebody which everybody kind of guesses who they think it was it was a guy's voice

But somebody yelled George Floyd. So this is probably the most likely reason that they're like, you know, up as like, we don't want to deal with this shit. Because, again, another not a good look. Yeah. Not funny.

And but it also could be that they were this could be an and or situation. It could also be that it was around that time last year at the end of. 2021 was when it started to the news came out that the documentary like mini series about IVLP is coming out which is now looking like it'll be the beginning of 2023 Okay. But it was around that time that it was released that it was in the works. So...

Maybe that wasn't their entire thing, but maybe also combining it with the whole George Floyd thing. They're just like, you know what? Let's just cut our losses now. Let's cut ties with anything related to IBLP. And also they just did something that was in very poor taste. Right.

like get the fuck out of here yeah so could be the george floyd thing is probably the main thing and then i think at the same time they're just like let's just yeah you're just you're missing on a lot of hot button topics

So now I figured let's talk some of the similarities and differences between the Bates and the Duggars. Okay. So both of the families end up having 19 kids. With Kelly, though, they're all singular births. Whereas Michelle had two sets of twins. So actually that means that Kelly had more pregnancies. The Bates didn't stick to a letter for names, but the two families have... Both Josie's and Jackson's in common. Okay. As well as both having miscarried jubilees.

weird is it what are the odds of that like yeah they didn't even stick to a letter and that you both are gonna have jubilees and they're both miscarriages damn so i thought that was really odd yeah that's odd and i didn't even write this next thing down but just while we're talking about names i just thought i'd bring it up randomly so their their second oldest child is their daughter michael okay and so um apparently she hated

her name like she didn't like that it was such a boy name so then they started calling her like Michaela so then it gets kind of confusing because sometimes they say Michaela sometimes they say Michael but and I think even at one point her name was spelled Michael but without that e

oh okay so and then they had it changed to michael with an e so that it was like full-blown boy and then she got older and was like i don't like my name because it's a boy's name so then they started calling her michaela and then it was like spelled one way and then she's changed how she spelled michael so this girl

400 names it's like well you said it earlier and it sounded weird so i was like okay there's probably that'll come back later but like i still find myself calling her michaela i don't know why i just do And then, unlike the Duggars, the Bates actually encourage secondary education. Now, there's the huge caveat that they all have gone to Crown College, which is a Bible college, but...

Still, it's different than the Duggars, which we'll have a whole future deep dive on this. But the Bates encourage their kids to go even just taking a few classes or two in the beginning to feel it out to see what they like. So.

Different than the Duggars. Less restrictive, yeah. Well, I like that story that Gilvin said that his dad told him. Because it's smart. I've seen this in my industry, and it's not... a traditional industry where you see people young people coming out of a school with no skills like no

No experience, no skills, but they went to school for these things. And I like the fact that his dad was like, you need to get a skill. You need to go learn how to do something, and then you can go to college. I actually kind of like that sentiment a lot.

yeah and get some life experience and interesting coming from him so who's a judge so clearly he you know went the full way with school and like but he's still saying like oh there's another way to yeah there's another way to do this yeah go learn how to do something for a while Another thing I noticed is that they give full frontal hugs in the Bates family. Full frontal, not the side hug life, you know, that the Duggars have. Destroying the fabric of our society.

Yep, so they offer it up. No wonder their show got canceled. Yeah, you know. Is that what everybody means when they say you go full frontal? Yep, it's exactly what they mean.

So they also seem to handle courtships a bit differently. Kelly Jo said, quote, if a couple is old enough to think about getting married, they're old enough to learn to talk to God and each other and make decisions for themselves. An adult child entering into a serious relationship better be able to make decisions. It doesn't make sense to tell couples that they should have to rush to get married in three months either. The couple misses so much that way.

So in general, their courtship seemed to be a lot more organic and not like the dads are coming together to make it happen. Making a transaction. And the same, you know, we talked about with the Kellers. Paul Keller had like a no courting before you're 20. Specifically with the Bates, they're like, oh, it's different for all of them. Some of them are. depends on their maturity like they're like there is no set thing or whatever and here's the other thing that it's a little scandalous

The Bates use the terms boyfriend and girlfriend. Oh my god. Which you never hear the Duggars say. No. Because the Bates seem to have a period of time before the official courtship that they'll call each other that. Mm-hmm. So they have the kids call them their boyfriend for up to a year. Oh, wow. Before they enter into an official courtship. Damn.

on their show gill talked of how the first time he met his daughter tory's now husband um that that's that very day like bobby was just like what's this courtship thing about how do i how do i do this and Gil was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't think we're ready for that. How about you guys try being friends first? So Gil calls it friends.

But the family was clearly saying like Tori's boyfriend, you know, or like whatever. So it definitely feels like it's dating, but they're just not calling it that. Okay. So for them. It does just kind of get this vibe of like. Courtship. So like. With the Duggars and Kellers. So Pest and Anna. Or you know.

or even um esther it was all courtship and then marriage correct but then like later on with a lot of the duggars we see where courtship kind of is your is is dating and engagement all in one yeah But with debates, it seems like there's your engagement where you're officially engaged and then working backwards. Then it's your courtship where I feel like it's like more serious dating. But then it still seems like they kind of date.

But they don't call it dating. But either way, I'll take that over what the fucking Duggars and Kellers are doing. Because it seems like they give them more of an opportunity to get to know people. without being like you have to be in a fucking courtship because with the other ones the other families to even be able to talk to the opposite sex you have to be in a courtship so at least they're being like you can call them your special friend or you're like whatever but

At least they're given the opportunity to get to know them. Yeah. And the idea that I, once again, not the way that I would carry out my life, but... When you look at them in comparison, it's so stark. For me, the biggest part of that is... It's not a number or like an age thing where, well, once you reach this age, this is what you do. It depends on the person. Like, I've known people growing up that reach a certain age and you're like, oh, yeah, they're not ready for that.

They're not ready to be in a relationship. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think it's that idea of like sometimes you're not. And what's the end goal? Is the end goal to get married and have kids? Or is the end goal to have... fulfilling life and i do like that kelly specifically said it doesn't make sense to tell them that they need to get married in three months so i'm like i feel like that was kind of shade at some other iblp you know people where she was like doesn't make sense

So it's like allow your kids to date for a year if they have to, even pre-courtship. If that'll make it turn out better, then why the fuck not? Yep. So I still feel like they're going into it with this whole like, oh, we're dating for a purpose. Fine. But I can take that. Fine. I'll fucking take that. Whatever. You know, that's better than. Than sex trafficking. Yeah. Than the other people got going.

Yeah, then putting one of the daughters in your cart like you're on Amazon and then selecting your delivery options. Yep. So this next one is about dancing. But really at its core, I bring this up because it's more about the idea of re-evaluating things that you've said in the past. So like the Duggars, the Bates never danced. But in an episode where their son Trace...

semi-insurrectionist. He wants to try out for the Dixie Stampede, which you remember we saw in that other episode where they went with the Duggars to the Dixie Stampede. It was Yeehaw Medieval Times. Basically. That's the best way to put it, yeah. so trace wants to be part of the dixie stampede and he wants to try out oh my but that would mean he would have to dance because it's more than just riding the horses and doing tricks there are like choreographed dance scenes with women and stuff

Oh, man. So Kelly Jo is saying that he might need some dancing lessons. In a talking head, their oldest son, Zach, said, quote, I didn't think I'd ever dreamed I'd see the day my mom would be encouraging anyone in my family to take dance lessons. Because, you know, dancing is a gateway drug to boning. It's all lust. Yeah. When you do the Lombada, it's the dance of the devil. It is. Kelly says that...

They never danced before because most teenage dancing is too close for comfort. And she's like laughing. And then Gil pipes in. He says, way too close. There's too much moving and shaking out there. There ain't nothing wrong with a little bump and grind, you know? A little moving and shaking.

but but this is kind of funny it's like even in saying that they're like laughing and doing that the whole time like it just comes off so different oh yeah Jim Bob and Michelle it's like even if Jim Bob and Michelle are also not about dancing at least in this moment like Kelly was literally like

she's saying it she was like you know a little too close for comfort and she the way i say i boob pat you she kind of like boob pats yeah and he's like way too close he's like lots of movement so i'm like at least there's even a little bit of humor behind it like they just they just have comparatively so much more personality and i think sorry real quick the interjection is like you know i don't think their show did that well because people probably felt it was just a copycat

And it's like, oh, we already have this family with a shit ton of kids. Okay, now we're going to have another one. Yeah. Because I remember when their show was on. Because that was also in an era when my dad was watching a lot of- When the daughters was on? When the Bates were on. You remember the Bates? I remember the... Not the screener, but I remember the commercials for the show because this was at a time... What year was this? 2012 was when it...

when bringing up Bates or I mean United Bates of America was on 2012. Okay. So I like vaguely have this memory of their show. I remember the name going on and I remember thinking. Oh, great. Another group of people that has a shit ton of kids that are trying to bank on it. You know what I mean? Yeah. But they just have relatively so much more personality. Yeah, they do.

But so after Gil is talking about there being too much moving and shaking out there, he does follow that up by saying that as the kids grow up, you have to evaluate things. So. That's just something I couldn't even imagine Boob saying. No. I feel like Boob is the type where it's like, if I said it once, that's the law and it's the law forever because I said it. I don't think he could even fathom going back and like...

re-evaluating correct things and then um I didn't write down the quote but then after Gil says that they go back to a talking head with their oldest son Zach the one who was like I never thought my mom would be talking about dancing lessons but it was Zach saying like

You know, it's like time passes. We just have to ask ourselves, like, what's the purpose of it? Are we doing it for something that's OK? Like, what's the idea behind it? And it's like if it's to perform in a show and it's not fucking bumping and grinding. Is it bad? Like type thing. So I just think that was a split second of being like, oh, reevaluating. Is this that bad in this instance? Yeah. Is it okay? They're older now. Like, you know.

That's such a non-traditionally religious mindset, too, of the idea of, like, I'm going to look back at my decision making or the actions that I do and really look at it and see if that's maybe right. I think people are afraid to... admit like i was presented new information and i changed my mind yeah and i think it's

I think part of it is societal, but I also think part of it is that idea of like, oh, wow, if I was wrong about this, maybe I'm wrong about everything in my life. You know what I mean? And that's not the case. That's a self-conscious human attitude. You know what I mean? If I decide I don't want to go to this place anymore because I don't like the things they do as a company, I'm not going to go.

did I buy the wrong car? Should we knock out of the house in this neighborhood? That's not how it works. And it's like, I think you're pretty safe, Gil. I don't think the dancing in the Dixie Stampede is really getting real, you know. lustful I think you're safe they don't dance to like 112 they're not listening to slow jams at the yee-haw medieval times you don't have Lil Jon telling you to bend over to the front and touch your toes

Something about a window and a wall? I don't know. Yeehaw. So those were kind of some of the differences that are more factual, things that I could pull actual quotes from and things.

Now I just want to discuss some of the things that are more my observation and opinion. Okay. So if you remember back to when I was saying how I felt like if you ever showed any sort of empathy for Anna or just like. any Duggar kid, you kind of got like fucking roasted. Like people just like, people are like, oh, like they make you out to be like this apologist. Well, I feel like the same thing happens if you say anything positive about the Bates. Okay.

Because people are kind of just like, they're still blah, blah, blah. I get it. They have the same beliefs. He's on the fucking board. I fucking get it. I don't need anybody to explain it to me. I understand. But I feel like... this is an instance where the things i'm noticing are just more about their personalities and to me that is different from their beliefs their belief yeah you know so um yeah so somebody out there if you say anything nice about them they're just like

anything that could be construed as a positive they're just like you're a fucking leg humper and it's like that's it's just literally noticing the differences in these people and how they present themselves and their personalities now of course they'll say that like oh they're more dangerous because they're

more relatable. So that makes them more dangerous because they'll bring you kind of more people into it because you don't come off as standoffish or like a fucking freak. You're not off-putting. Yeah, exactly. Which I get that, but it's like... For the time being, I'm separating the two. These are the things that I've noticed about them more personally. So the relationships between both parent and child and siblings.

They just seem to be a lot more genuine and close. Which is funny because we just read all these things about how Gil and Kelly didn't really fucking like kids and they had to have God teach them how to like their kids. And so it's just really kind of... ironic that they've seemingly to me done so much better in cultivating like actual deep real relationships with their children yeah so it's like they actually They seem to know their kids on a deeper level.

And then just the kids as siblings. So they're more affectionate. But even just affection aside, you can just feel the deep closeness amongst them as siblings. And I know you haven't gotten to watch the show, so you've only seen like... them you don't really know what i'm talking about you've just seen them on the with the duggars yeah but the siblings are all very close they like they cut they

kind of like tear up a lot talking about each other not that everybody in the world has to be a crier like me but obviously they are but it's like you can just they're they're incredibly they're incredibly close and they talk so like highly of each other

And it doesn't feel like, like with the Duggars, it all feels super stiff. Oh, yeah. So like, even when they're saying something positive about somebody else, it always feels like we keep talking about them parroting or it feels like they're reading from a script.

the doggers always feel like sound like they're reading from a script yeah so it's like even if it is coming like even if these are their own words it never sounds genuine yeah because it has this air of just like it's rehearsed yeah it's just it's so weird like even the even the cringy line in this episode of like i think he'll be a great dad he has a lot of experience with little kids even the cringiness of that aside That should be a statement that is not awkward or rehearsed.

Yeah. Like if that was in that moment, it'd be like, well, obviously he's been around kids all of his life. He's going to do, you know what I mean? Like there's a way to do that genuine and it was not genuine at all. It felt like you said, it felt like somebody pulled the cue cards and was like. He should have no problem with, oh, I fumbled my cards. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And like the Bates family, kids, they all just feel so comfortable with each other.

But it also makes me stop and wonder. Like, we'll never know the answer. But are the Duggars the way they are because of Josh molesting his sisters? Were they? Were they never allowed to be close because of that? Oh, man. So it's like, I really wish we could have seen a glimpse.

into them before all this because you know jim bob and michelle talk about how they put up all the safeguards in place right but did him doing that or that and them knowing what josh was like struggling with as they would say did that make it to did that kill any chances that they had to be a close and comfortable family? Oh, that is such a good question.

Because I could totally see that. Because if they're not going to actually deal with it in a functional manner, what you do is now you're going to put, like you said, safeguards up. To make sure that those things don't happen. So then there's no affection. There's no warmth. There's no comfortability. Right. Because you don't want that temptation. Relating it to something not.

this um we talk about that at work sometimes where you know we come up with the challenge that was you know a challenge arises in in a certain situation And now we do all of these things to make sure that that challenge doesn't come up again. Yeah. But we don't deal with the actual problem. It's like, well...

If so-and-so is late all the time, I'll just start scheduling them half an hour early so they show up on time. Well, why don't you just deal with the fact that they can't make it to work on time rather than having to overcompensate? You know what I mean? Yeah. That's what that mindset feels like. Oof. Man, that's going to change the way that I view this show. Yeah. The sad thing is, like I said, we will never know. Were they that way and it all ended? Yeah.

Or were they never that way? But it goes all these different directions. But in general, Jim, Bob, and Michelle don't seem like they have warmth as people that Gil and Kelly do. So it's probably this middle ground. I don't think that there's... any way that it didn't affect the family dynamic correct it did yeah it's the i guess it's more of like wondering just how much did it yeah at this point I also wonder when Josh left the house, was there secretly a feeling of relief?

that he was gone from his siblings yeah from some of his siblings you know what i mean that were around for that that were that were you know some of them witnessed to it some of them victims to it like when he left did they kind of like breathe a sigh of relief Because even though the damage is still done, it's like the person that perpetrated it is no longer in your sphere 24 hours a day. Yeah. Damn. You blew my mind.

You're welcome. The next thing I just kind of wrote, I just said that the Bates are more relatable in general than the Duggars. I think it's a huge part of that is that they're... personalities are big they don't seem to be completely beaten out of them yeah like honestly i don't know that like jim bob likes personality seriously like i don't think i think that they

they i i this is just me projecting i almost feel like jim bob probably thinks like having big personalities almost being like disobedient oh yeah you know what i mean because like um because like the bates kids they're even just like They make fun of each other. There's teasing. But it's all the stuff that makes a family a family. Correct. And I could see them being like, you're never allowed to even tease a sibling because it would be like, that's just.

being disobedient you know correct like having personality to him would be like disobedience yeah that makes sense and that just reminded me of way back when they went skydiving You remember when they went skydiving with the bald guy that was the flight instructor? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He was probably like, look at this disobedient man. Yeah, right. And I feel like the Duggars...

Always feels a need to be proper. 100%. So this is just a small thing that I don't think that the rest of us would ever think about as being anything. But when you compare it to the Duggars, I feel like it is. So a lot of times in their like talking head things like on the couch, Kelly is sitting with her legs like up on the couch.

like kind of like to the side so she's being modest you know like her knees are together and she's wearing her skirt but she's got her feet up on to the side and i just feel like michelle would never do it's like these little things oh you're just like it's again the comfort being comfortable where i'm like they would never allow that because that's not proper correct so yeah i just feel like any kind of just like

normal shit is beaten out of these kids yeah it's like you got to sit like this you got to be like this you got to do like this you got to be quiet like this you know yeah they just aren't allowed to be normal where i do feel like the bates kids are more more allowed to be normal are they normal no but do they have like little aspects that make them human beings yes yeah i mean and you could always say that they learned

what not to do from the Duggars, which I know I've said in the past. Like, did they look at it and go, oh, we're not going to be like that? You could also say that... The way they're presented is different because of the different networks that they were on. Right. So TLC, definitely their goal was to point out that the Duggars are different. Like, look at these fucking freaks.

So that was always their goal. Whereas on the Up Network, being a Christian network, I think they want to be relatable. Look at this fun family. See, you can be Christian and cool and fun. Like that feels like more of the vibe over there. Yeah. So that's where you can make that argument of, okay, they're presented differently. But even in that one season that the Bates were on TLC, I do feel like they still came.

off more relatable yeah so you know every time i come up with an argument it kind of just like in the wash it turns out to be i do think that they're just their personalities are more relatable correct in general And whether it is that they learned how to not present themselves or, you know, and they also don't seem to push trying to show certain things on their show about.

their convictions as much as much as the Duggars did but again that could be because the network is like we don't need to push it that hard but I don't know there's just there's palpable differences between the two families yeah oh yeah easily And at some point, I want you to actually watch some of the episodes of their show so you can really see the differences. But just even in the talking heads with Gil and Kelly, you can feel it in this. Easily. Where it's just like...

They're not fucking robots. Like Michelle seems like she's like, you know, medicated. Jim Bob is just like a fucking robot. And then these two actually have like. somewhat of a personality. Yeah. So she was tutoring Gilvin on chemistry because there's still a little bit of chemistry there. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that's true. And I think you see it when.

I think when everything needs to be so practiced and rehearsed, we've brought up multiple times where you can tell Jim Bob's trying to set, set up him making like a big statement. And then when somebody derails it, like. You can tell it like eats at him. Yeah. Like the thing with grandpa and the shoe. Like he wanted to be like, look, let's say this great thing for the patriarch of our family and one of the little kids.

Being a little kid was like, he lost his shoe. That's just a little kid thing to say, and you could tell that it bothered him. You know what I mean? Somebody posted a thing today about being a parent. It was like, I'm all about... you know, having consequences and, you know, disciplining your children when necessary. But, you know, when you're disciplining your kids on something that's literally related to them.

having an underdeveloped brain and being a kid which is normal you know it's like those are the things that i don't like yeah yep so anyways they just um Like even just in their homeschooling, it's different. Like you see like real textbooks out with them. Like there's quite a few differences. Oh yeah.

It's I do like that they keep popping back in, though, because I keep forgetting about them and then they'll come back. And I think we analyze this or I at least analyze this every time because they are a foil to. the Duggars. So as much as they're friends and as much as they're, you know, helping them out to do these things, you instantly see the differences.

If there's some stuff that you're like, oh, man, she didn't cover the veteran snarkers. If you're like, oh, man, she could have covered this today. Future deep dive. It's because it'll be future deep dive. In future episodes with the Bates. I've kind of stopped asking certain questions just because I'm like, it'll come up eventually. Yep, we will be seeing the Bates again. Yep. You made it. Oh my God. I'm proud of you. We had to pause so many times for me to cough.

Oh, my God. I've got this honey bear just, like, sitting here. And she talks. Hey, don't tell them you call me that at home. I'm a bear. We talk about the different. roles that Whitney and I play in this podcast and obviously she does a lot more of the talking so she made it through I was super sick for two of the episodes that we recorded but my I feel like my entire personality is just

Trying to be comic relief during certain things. So this one was a good one. You made it. I'm proud of you. It was rough. Yeah. But we are... fully into the holiday season so uh this past weekend was my annual sleepover with my nieces i did post a little a couple things on the instagram um

it's mildred's fucking favorite night of the year she loves it she gets so much so number one it's it's adorable that my nieces still whether they like it or they um are just appeasing me i think they like it i think they like it My sister, so my oldest niece that's 23, she listens to the podcast. She still comes to the sleepover. Bless her little heart, her little servant's heart. So she still comes. And then her sister's.

about to be yeah her sister 17 and um my sister so their mom was like said that a couple years ago Elsa was like, it's not Christmas until we have the sleepover at weenies. And I'm like, that is the best thing anybody can say. We just watch movies. We color. They're 23, 17, and 15.

we color we eat nachos we always make nachos we watch we always watch a muppet christmas carol greatest christmas movie of all time the best and then i watched it the next night with tim so i watched it two nights in a row i don't mind But yeah, so I mean, they're just the best if they still do this. And I don't know how long it'll last, but we're on year nine. It's been very interesting to watch the evolution of this sleepover.

Because it has changed as they've gotten older. Oh, the first year I was doing all the things. Gingerbread houses. And... Making gifts for your parents and doing this and doing, you know, it's like a million things. One year, Whitney bought these little, like, small knit sweaters. And then using a hot glue gun and a bunch of different craft stuff, they made mini ugly Christmas sweaters. I didn't buy the sweaters. I cut them out of felt. Oh, okay.

Yeah, but they made these little like Christmas sweaters. That was kind of fun. Yeah, and then it had a little white hanger that they used as like an ornament hanger. So that was fun. But my favorite thing this year was... the everyone's an older teenager at least was they were watching some like snl christmas clips in the morning and then I heard them start talking about true crime

And then they spent the rest of the morning watching holiday-related true crime. We watched Homicide for the Holidays. Yep. So, you know, we've come a long way. We went from gingerbread houses and whatever to now Homicide. To murder. Yep. Homicide. Slaying and slaying. Look at that. Touche. Little Mildred here got her first official Christmas card. Oh, yep. We got our first card in the mail. She was so excited. Yep.

It was addressed to her and family. It was Mildred and family. From Michigan. Yes. So thank you to our little fan in Michigan. We figure once we get a couple, we'll throw something on the gram. with Mildred with her, uh, many, many cards. She was so excited. So because we're going into Christmas, I think this is our last episode of the year. We have, um, We're hosting our Christmas party coming up this weekend. So just with how timing works, I just don't think we'll be able to do an episode.

with posting the party and then the next week's christmas so um this looks like it's probably gonna be our last for the year so thanks for um joining us in 2022 for all of this Just unfolded randomly. Our Spotify wrap of our podcast was really cool. Like our wrap up. It was just cool to see because it says like how much content you created and like how many countries and like where you did in your categories. It said we created 1,898 minutes of content.

which is 86 percent more than other people in our category yeah which is insane so thank you very much created a lot of content i didn't even realize yeah so thank you for joining us for that because this has been fun this has been awesome yep so i guess we will catch you in the new year Yep. Bye.