Episode 22 - Can I Get a Hush Puppy? Size 7?

Mother is believing. At least I have a husband, you know. Does anybody here believe it? We are from Arkansas, no? So now we are on episode 22. So now comes the big reveal of the next thing that we do. Because we worked our way through all the kids and honorary kids. So last week I was like, wait till next week. This is the McKinsey episode. Okay, do tell. Because we are now going to go through in order all of the grandchildren.

Okay. It was a popular request. You got to give the people what they want. Many people were like, can you do the grandkids next? So that's what we're doing. Okay. When we run out of grandkids, we'll see where that takes us. But we're going to be here for a while, so that's good. And how many grandkids are there? Oh, I haven't even counted. I have no idea. Oh, okay. I have no fucking clue. Oh. Maybe 20. I don't know. Like, no idea. Weird. That seems like something you would know.

Nope, no idea. Because, I mean, I just know that I could tell you some of the kids, but I have no fucking clue the number. Yeah, okay. Okay, so Mackenzie. So this episode, actually first, before I get into the actual episode, I just have a few orders of business first. Ooh, I'm ready. So the first being that, so after Josh was sentenced, of course, you have a window of time in which you can make an appeal.

I want to say it got pushed back two, three times. This might be the final, I think the third time. Okay. It finally did go through and was made public. Like, I mean, like they gave it. the information for it. And it was made public this last week.

Nothing really too crazy. They once again double down on the whole Caleb Williams thing and like that you didn't look into him even though they're saying that. Remember how I talked about how there's like pings of his phone along the whole way and all this different evidence. Yeah.

But, you know, they're going with the whole you don't know that he didn't remote in type, you know, bullshit. And, you know, they're just going to it's just something that they're hoping could be. See, you didn't look into something. Right. And the only other thing that was sort of new-ish was that now they bring up that there was a violation of Josh's constitutional rights because of the cops taking away Josh's phone.

but obviously that was an attempt to make sure that he did not delete or tamper with any form of evidence correct so that's really the only other thing that stuck out to me is different but par for the course and

this was around the time because we found out about it a few days later is when it was made public so it kind of coincides around the time of anna deleting her instagram so that could be why she's probably just sick of the shit and it's like i don't want to talk about it again you know i don't know

But just something noteworthy. I would be exhausted if this was... If you were married to that, fuck. Like, just everything. The next order of business is just, yes, I am... aware of the ama yesterday for anybody that doesn't know what an ama is it's a ask me anything there was one yesterday on reddit with a childhood friend of anna

i got tons and tons of messages blowing up yeah of people being like oh my god did you see this yes i saw it i was popping in and out all day yesterday um i've looked a couple times today I will again go back through because just to make sure I didn't miss anything that maybe got answered later on because, you know, sometimes they pop back in and...

continue to answer questions whatever so yes I am aware I had a couple people ask if this was going to be the deep dive for this week and it's not for a couple of reasons I'll just explain real quick number one this happened yesterday and we record today it's a very quick turnaround like you know that's way too quick of a turnaround with as much time as i put into it and i was already several hours into about the 11 hours i put into this deep dive it's just i couldn't

I couldn't turn around that quickly and come up with something else. Plus we were all, this was in between trying to actually entertain people at our home yesterday for the first time in a long time. That hasn't happened in forever. Attempting to have somewhat of a life. Yeah. And yeah, I also, I just.

If you haven't figured out, I like to curate a theme or a topic and kind of take it through. And I don't know. I just think that going straight through an AMA just feels like I'd be reading off Reddit to you, which is. Not really my bag. So, but don't worry. There were some good stuff in it and many of you probably read every word of it so you know it. But...

Just know that I will be using it as a resource for future deep dives. In fact, a lot of it ties in with some deep dives I have planned for later this season. So we'll be seeing the information. It just won't be in one that is just running straight through.

this ama and i think the one of the nice parts that people like about the deep dives is the research and how you're using these hard items you know books talks whatever it is and then referencing other things like you're using that as a reference not let me just read you this thing verbatim so I mean sometimes I do but usually it's for a specific topic and there's multiple other things I'm also reading but yeah I just feel

like it'll be more interesting I think you kind of like stuff sticks with you more like even things that i read in their books years ago correct that i know i've read at some point or things i know but when you kind of curate it to one thing i feel like the whole like it becomes more storytelling do you know what i mean yeah like it's not just like here's some information it's like

When you're taking it from all the different areas and then combining it, you're creating like a full blown like story, I guess. Anyways. So just wanted to address the AMA. Yes, I'm aware. And it will be making an appearance via different deep dives.

There was some good stuff. Okay, so the actual episode, it premiered on February 3rd of 2009, and it's called A Dugger in the Rough. So the episode starts with Lego hair, talking about how the book that he and Baby Cannon wrote just came out about four days earlier. So this makes it December 6th of 2008 because it came out on December 2nd. Yeah, so he's talking about how it's surprisingly well how it's done in those four days. So they're going to a local retailer.

For a book signing. Spoiler alert, the local retailer is Walmart. Yeah, it was... I get it. They didn't want to say it, but... It was obvious. But to be fair, I guess they can say that, though, because Walmart did start in Arkansas in 1962. So I guess to be fair, they can call it a local retailer, I guess.

The headquarters are actually about 30 minutes from the Tater Tot Mansion. So just a little information, especially for people who live outside of the U.S. Yeah. Kind of puts it into perspective. I feel like everybody's heard of Walmart. So they live about 30 minutes away. So, on the same day, they're also being filmed by a French film crew. So, they're kind of following around for them on this day as well. So, they're at the Walmart and the kids are playing the violin.

you know just across from the checkout lines yeah it was weird no big whoop uh totally normal and people are crowded around and i just keep thinking about how it's clogging up the entire walkway yep i was just like move out of the way like And one of the French film crew members is saying how having so many kids is unheard of in France. But my favorite part is when he says, I think that's very exotic, which I was like, yes. And when I think of exotic, I definitely think of Boob and Michelle.

So then Josiah talks about how it's funny just because they have not only the Discovery crew, which is, you know, TLC. And the French crew. And then they also have the local news. So he said the Discovery crew is filming the French crew. Film us. You know, it's just like kind of all these different people are there. And then the French guy says that the Duggars aren't camera shy and are.

quote, very good at explaining what they are doing and are well organized. We all take that with that. I was like, oh, he doesn't know. I mean, he just doesn't know. You don't know. It's okay. But we're like, well, organized is because of... They're kids. Yeah. And yeah, I don't think they're really good at explaining much. Well, it's just that it's that like unnecessary exposition that.

when you're filming a scene and lego hair's there and he's looking at the group and he's like all right guys so we're gonna today we're gonna go to this uh creationist museum all right now we're all gonna go to the bus like like there's those weird expository things that are awkward yeah

So the guy also says that this wouldn't happen in Europe and that French people would be so shy and secretive. But the Duggars show how they keep the house and everything. And it's just amazing. So how the girls keep the house. Correct. You know, so got that. So the Duggars are now signing books right there in women's wear, right under the women's wear sign.

And everyone, including the kids, are signing. And I just, like, I kept waiting for Femi to, like, pop up with her own Sharpie and be like, I'm here. Like, start signing books. But Femi doesn't come until later. Yeah. But I was like, oh, she missed an opportunity for her stardom.

Do you have any of the stuff that the kids said in their talking heads? So like when they were, there's two things when they were showing them actually. uh you know pulling the books out and starting to sign and then they were talking to the french film crew guy um they had a talking head with jill that um they asked her about like you know what do you

Why do you think that these foreign film crews are interested in seeing what you guys do, how you live? And she said, well, you know, they may want to increase their birth rates. And then she laughs awkwardly. And then, so at first I was like... Is she just making a joke? Is this a Jill joke? But then it seemed like she was reciting something that's been told to her. Well, they said the same thing when the Korean film crew was there, remember? Yeah. They said the same thing. It was to...

okay yeah so that's i think that's why the korean film crew said they were there so i think that she's just saying oh that must be why everybody's here okay because one of the lost boys said it again later as well and i was like okay that's probably something i assume that was like

something that they're being told that like well this interest that is in you because you know they want to get their birth race up and we're gonna show them how to do it i don't doubt that like i mean he could have made it up entirely but i wouldn't i would guess that one place did say that to them and then jim bob has just said like well that's just and just ran with it exactly so now the kids probably are like well that's why everybody's here right like you know um

Okay, so then the French guy says that large families used to be driven by poverty, but the Duggars are, quote, very different and driven by faith in God. And that's a... quote very american story that's america and um yeah so i'm like oh i think i said this with the korean film crew too i'm like dang it i want there to be like a big disclaimer if they ever show this shit again but like this is not america

Yeah, yeah. And I think you get that with every country. Like, every country to other countries is going to have, well, this is what people assume goes on here. Yeah, and you're like, no! I always say it about Arizona because there's not a whole lot of natives that... I feel like you find that living at least in like metropolitan Phoenix. And I always say that when people think of Arizona, they think of Adobe houses and women in denim jackets and turquoise jewelry.

and like a cactus and a tumbleweed like everywhere you look exactly yeah you know it's like we understand that that's not how things are here yeah so everybody has like the perception yeah One of the other things they said about the book, one of the Lost Boys said it was when Jim Bob was explaining why they've written this book. He really pushed the idea that this was leaving like a detailed history for the later generations of their family. I don't even remember that.

Yeah, so it was something I didn't write down fully because I assume that you write down every talking head. I didn't remember it, no. Noted. But yeah, they're being told that the reason why they're making this book not a cash grab, their reasoning is... We want to make sure that the later generations of our family have a detailed idea of how we lived and why we lived this way to pass down to other generations. I don't know why I don't remember this at all. So this is news to me.

when i was watching it and i was like oh and also a cash grab because you have a tv show i just remember him being like we couldn't answer all the emails so here it is like yeah yeah um So then they end their time at this local retailer by singing Silent Night. Do you have anything else to add on that before? No. Okay.

So the next scene is taking the whole family to Crater Diamond State Park. But of course, you know, their TV show, Tim, it's about ministry. It is not about making money. Correct. Correct. So Boob takes this opportunity to pull out his Bible and make this, you know, real touching teaching moment with all the kids on the bus.

everybody's like let's go and he's standing on the bus you know about how god's word is more valuable than silver gold or diamonds and that quote god's word is the real hidden treasure and you're And how you will get the fulfillment in your life. Oh. So. So can I pay my bills with hidden treasure? With God's word? I'm going to mail fulfillment to SRP tomorrow. So as the Duggars pull up to the park, they have once again made the marquee.

You know, they love a banner and they love a marquee. I swear next time I'm invited over to like someone's like someone hosts me anywhere. If I show up and there is not a marquee sign welcoming, I'm turning around. Yep. lack of respect this has set up some expectations for me i want a marquee damn it

So they're getting ready and pulling all of their supplies like shovels and gloves out of the bus. And I just wanted to point out that did you notice that all of these items are brand new? Brand new. Yep. So I guess it's, you know, buy, use and save the difference.

Except for when you need it right now and it's very inconvenient. When you need it for a photo op. I mean, can you go around to all the different stores and find all the shovels that you need for tomorrow? You know, and everybody's side.

so i just thought that was funny and i wouldn't care otherwise but they're so harp on the fact that they don't buy anything new correct like he's like we don't buy anything like he's said those exact words so it's like yeah you fucking do yeah leave some i just don't like don't talk in absolutes say For the most part, we try to buy used. They talk so absolute about fucking everything. So I'm like, I see your brand new fucking shovel with the sticker on it. With the sticker still on it.

Then a pop-up comes on that says that Beyonce's engagement ring has as many carrots as there are Duggar children. So they said 18, considering her pregnancy as well. And I think it was... um ginger i want to say don't quote me but i think it was ginger that talked about in her book about how they didn't even i don't even think they watched every episode but sometimes they did and like the tv is kept in jim bob and michelle's room

which I'm imagining is to keep anybody from getting to it, of course. And that sometimes that they would, you know, roll this old TV out to watch episodes. So I'm just imagining Michelle. like carting out a tv like a la elementary school And, you know, they get to watch this episode. And I could just see like a lost boy watching this and seeing that pop up and be like, who's Beyonce? Like, they have no fucking clue. Like, who's Beyonce?

It's like taking them to Disneyland. Right? No context. So they're going through the whole visitor center deal, learning about diamonds, blah, blah, blah. And then the producers are asking random people on the street what they would do if they found a diamond. I don't find it particularly interesting. It's really not. Yeah. Okay. So I'm like, I really didn't write a whole.

lot you know they're like travel lamborghini i don't give a shit um but then they asked jason the same question and he says that he would sell it and that he would give the money to his mom and dad in other contexts this would be really cute

And it still is cute. Which later on, because they kind of like... inserted segments of them asking these people on the street different questions yeah there was a little girl later on that said the same thing yeah she said that she would sell it and she would give most of it to her mom and dad and then she would buy her and her sister some clothes

So see, there's the cute version. Yeah. And it's like, it still is cute coming from Jason. But all I can think of is like, oh, no, Jason, do not fund Josh's legal defense. We have another appearance of the Our Apostle shirt.

okay i thought i caught it i wasn't sure but you so and i will be completely honest i've never seen the kid that it was on i didn't pay attention to who it was i just caught the shirt i know i know josh and john david and then i know there's an older kid an older boy in there it was it was that well I don't think you know John David because last week you said the our apostle shirt was on John David and it was on Joe

Then maybe it was on Joe again. I don't know. All I know is I've never seen this damn kid in my life. He was a white, awkward kid. I don't know what to tell you. I'll make you flashcards. We got through Jess and Ginger. I feel pretty confident, right? There was a point in this episode where I saw them both there and I heard a voiceover by somebody.

And I was like, I don't know who's saying that. Never mind. We're starting back at square one. Nothing is mastered yet. I thought we were done with at least Justin Ginger. I just don't care enough. That's the problem. So you're going to be like saying something. I'm going to be like, yeah. And it's totally misreporting. So anyways, when they finally get out into the field, they actually, it's just the mining area and it cuts to a talking head of joy saying,

I don't know. I didn't know what it was going to be like when I got out there. It was just a big dirt field. And I was like, okay, this is more for boys, not for girls. Not going to go into this deeper now, but I just wanted to make sure that we pointed this out for future discussions. Okay. So we're just watching them dig and play around in the dirt.

putting it through the screens famies there i mean it's really not not much going on um ginger obviously they're asking like different kids like what they would do if they found the biggest diamond and Ginger says that she would buy a Cadillac Escalade. Then Jill says she'd sell it, but she goes, I don't know what I'd buy with it. And then she goes, Hummer? Kind of just like shoulder shrug. I don't know.

But yeah, so Ginger wants an Escalade. Yeah. I think it's probably when Pest had that one that she was just like, oh, yeah. I remember with the sound system. Oh, yeah. So I really particularly love watching Michelle in this scene, walking around with Johanna because she, it looks absolutely preposterous. Her outfit, like it was not, it did not.

belong for being out in dirt like a dirt field like it kills me it's like at least okay so cousin famie is wearing very of the era like beanie-ish hat beanie but with the brim with that little brim yeah very of the time And then she's wearing a hoodie and like jeans. So at least the Doug girls, they're wearing the version of that that they can.

the hoodie and they're wearing like a jean skirt so you're like okay they can't wear but like michelle looks like she's out there getting ready to fucking teach sunday she's in like flats still she's wearing the no she's wearing the um They look like kitchen shoes, like the clogs. Oh, yeah. Like the ones that had the high clogs or whatever. Can you put a boot on, lady? It's just so funny. Can you try something in a boot? She's like...

I'm like, where are you going? This does not look like someone who's going to a dirt minefield. Can we get a hush puppy in size seven, please? So, yeah, I just thought it was. funny do you remember hush puppies no i'm trying to what is that they were just like these like dark i just remember them as like these dark bound loafer i have no like loafery type like straight over my head shoe yeah

Wow, I made a fashion reference. You didn't know. I'll have to look it up after this. I thought maybe you could put on an espadrille or something. And I'm going to sidestep. I feel like we've had some pretty good media references in our episodes recently. So there is a comedy movie with Leslie Nielsen that's called Wrongfully Accused. And it's kind of a parody of The Fugitive. And the guy that is trying to kill him gets a gun that's in a fake leg, like a prosthetic leg.

And when they're going over the different attributes of this fancy prosthetic leg gun, the woman holds up this little shoe and she goes, you know what my favorite part is? The silencer. She holds it up and she goes, hush puppy. I have no fucking clue what you're talking about. So there you go. Hush puppy. Let us know if you've ever seen that movie because I love that movie.

So John David, John David, not Joe. They're both the same. John David is pulling a prank by sprinkling fake diamonds like for the little kids in Lego to find. And then there's like one giant fake one. And Boob says, we love doing practical jokes on each other occasionally, as long as it's funny for both parties. I think God has a sense of humor. He created us. So you said a mouthful there, Jim Bob. I put that there too.

oh man now we get to the part where jim bob has to work in how people are wrong and he just knows it all absolutely he can't miss you know now So he says a lot of times. So this is where the hands come out. You know, a lot of times when we come to a state park or something like that, they say the world is millions of years old. And then it cuts to an employee saying that this mining area is formed by a volcano millions of years ago. Then it cuts back to Boob. And he's saying...

We'll say, well, how do you know the world is millions of years old? And they say, well, we date these rocks by the fossils we find in the rocks. And so, like, he's asking.

So how do you know the fossils are that old? And they say, we know the fossils are that old because of the rocks. And so they use circular reasoning to describe it. Nothing about what he said that... people say about the that's not the way that they do things and the thing is who knows he knows and maybe this is just me projecting my salt onto watching this but i feel like

I feel like both him and Baby Cannon have a very specific look on their face when they know they're bullshitting. It's preaching. It's the preachy face. They don't think they're bullshitting. They think it's real. And in my head, what it is is... Please don't ask questions. Please don't ask questions. You know what I mean? They just want to say their piece and then you just not ask questions and move on. Yep. So then, of course, there's now a talking head of Michelle and she says...

Everywhere we go, there's always going to be, you know, ideas and precipitions. Is that how she says it? I can't remember. I remember thinking she kind of said it wrong, maybe. But that are opposite of what the Bible teaches. And that's it. That's all from Michelle. Yep.

And then it just ends with the corny scene of them all holding hands in a line like very like Red Rover style walking through the fields because they're like looking to see if anything glistens in the like sunset. And then Boob is giving Michelle one of his. you know, tight-lipped but noisy kisses he does, and he says, 25 years ago, I found my diamond.

Let's go to the house. Yeah, that's that exposition that I'm telling you about. That's that dumb exposition that doesn't make sense in any context. He's just corny. And not good corny. Like, I'm okay with corn, you know? It's cone! It has the juice. It has the juice. Can I imagine a more beautiful thing? That was Whitney for, like, three weeks. Oh, God, even longer. Now it's Mulan. But...

Yeah, he's corny, but it's not good corny. Like, I appreciate some good corn, but I'm just like, oh, shut up. Like, it's not even... So, yeah, that's kind of it for the episode. Do you have anything else? No, it was kind of... You said it yourself. You're like, after the wedding, there's... There's a little bit of filler. There's quite a bit of filler for a bit. Nothing too heavy there. Their local retail Walmart. At least he didn't say small. He just said local. I'll give him that.

All right, we'll take a smidgen of a break and we'll be right back with the deep dive. So this week's deep dive is all about evolution versus creationism. I felt it was, you know, between the previous trip to the Creationist Museum, last week's mention of Man and Apes, And then this week's talk of, you know, circular, you know, reasoning that he gave about the earth and all that stuff. I figured it was about time to address this on its own as a deep dive.

So I have several different sources, which I will name as I get into different sections using them. So on the IBLP website, under Statements of Faith, which is exactly like it sounds, it's a summary of their... basic belief system it says quote we believe that the genesis account of creation is neither allegory nor myth but a literal historical account of god's creation of the universe

And then it also says, we believe Adam was directly created in innocence and in the image of God and did not evolve from preexisting forms of life. So none of that, of course, is unexpected, but I just wanted to read to you guys like verbatim.

what iblp actually says so now i'm going to be referencing referencing passages from the iblp men's manual volume one quote in dealing with the fallacies of evolution we do not need more facts we need more faith so they're just coming right out and saying it yep fuck facts yep facts are for losers is who they are for uh yeah it's you know facts it's faith that's it that's it yeah um and then there's a little box off to the side that reads

If members of your family reject the way that God made them, they will also tend to reject the Lord and his word. Dangerous, you know? So then there's another chapter in the men's manual. There's this section all about cleansing your home. of books and magazines which i mean there's so much i could go into i can't wait to get into more stuff later on just talking specifically though about evolution okay um so it's you know cleansing your home of books and magazines which are

Pose to the Bible and gives examples of some of the books and topics that you should avoid, such as books by cults. Ironic much as we're reading from a book made by a cult. Projection. Heard. astrology you know and of course witchcraft and things like that don't even listen to this song by frank sinatra but it says quote any book which majors on the humanistic philosophy of evolution

And yet again, there's another little tidbit on the side, I love these, that I found worth sharing. It says, quote, it is better to have a few books that honor the word of God than a library full of books that challenge the authority of the Bible. Thinking is bad. This is my favorite part. You can expect your wife and kids to be attracted to the wrong books in your library.

That last sentence has like an exclamation point. So emphasis. And I mean, you can just expect that from your wife and children. Damn. Well, I mean, your wife is just constantly disappointing you. Yep. As we learned. Okay, final thing from the men's manual. There's a chapter on being alert to spiritual danger. Alert! So there's this section on philosophies that might influence your children. So they tell you to make sure that your children have a clear grasp on basic scriptural principles.

They tell you to supervise their education, thus the ATI curriculum, because you know it's all approved. It's like a push for ATI, even though they don't even say it. And then also it says to know the beliefs of your children's teachers, which is made much easier, of course, when the teacher is maybe their mom, but most likely their older sister. Very convenient for them.

And it says to interview their teachers. So, you know, do you think they're interviewing Jana and like Jill? And they're like, you know, we've got to talk to you about your beliefs. I like to think they did. And then it says to know what teachings your children should avoid. Then again, there's a little cartoon word bubble on the side with an example of such dangers. Okay. Give me an example. This says.

Dad, in order to graduate, I have to take a course on world religions. Whoa. Danger! I think of Phoebe and Rachel and friends when they're like, danger! So yeah, that's...

Sounds dangerous. Yeah. So that sums up the talks of evolution in the men's manual for now. Now I'm going to shift focus to what is said about evolution in... Various wisdom booklets, which is just basically the ATI curriculum. Okay. I pull from a couple different ones. But it says... Evolution is the basic deception that all things develop from the simple to the complex, and that it is man's attempt to avoid responsibility to a holy God and his absolute laws.

So dramatic. Well, if I can interject real quick, that is one thing I've realized about kind of people that I've spoken to that believe this way is that it's... unnecessarily taking it personal oh always like it's the idea that like it's an attack i didn't i didn't evolve from a monkey like it's that thing of like they're taking it as like a like you're a dumb animal And it's like, those animals aren't dumb.

But it's still just the idea of like, don't equate me with something that I feel that I'm better than. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, that's obviously an animal. They are lesser than I. And don't even make a connection for the two. Don't be so dramatic. So this next part is what really gets me. It says, evolution is a foundational tenet in the religion of humanism. It has permeated all phases of academic study.

Like creation, however, it must be accepted by faith since it cannot be proven scientifically. Oh, honey. Just because you can't prove your side scientifically doesn't mean that nobody can. And I just want to mention that that part is under false philosophies. Of course. So that was in wisdom booklet number two. That is just it's a quick little thing under this whole section that talks about things that are like, you know, dangerous, like, you know, basically this false philosophies.

But when we move into Wisdom Booklet number 19 is where it gets further into it by first stating that God's laws are accurate and permanent, whereas, quote, man's scientific theories are in continual state of revision. that's the fucking point yeah number one but um it just makes sense you know demonizing learning seeking out information possibly changing your stance based on new information yeah um totally par for the course for them

You're not supposed to look into things. Yeah. So, yeah, not surprising that any type of revision in belief system to them is bad, bad, bad. Right. And it's... Like I remember being in university for science and like their big thing is like the whole thing about science is admitting that you don't know something. Exactly. And finding it out. being like okay how do we figure this out and that's the complete antithesis to faith because if you if you're not sure it's like but why don't you just

Why don't you just pray harder and it'll all come to fruition? You know what I mean? It's almost like a contest. Like it's a contest of like... Is your faith strong enough? And also we've already heard it a little bit and we'll see it more going forward, but they so, you know, emphasize believing in absolutes. Yeah. So for them, like it is a completely foreign idea that like.

You don't absolutely know fucking everything. And you're okay with that. And Whitney and I have, I won't get into detail, but like Whitney and I have talked about. that with like some social issues that have been coming about the last couple years it's really easy to put people into a box and say this is the kind of person that uses this program or does these things and it's easy to think that they're these really bad caricatures of people and it's like you know what happens with human beings

is that there's circumstances and there's little idiosyncrasies to everybody's history and what everybody's going through. Yeah, it's not absolute. Yeah, so it's really easy to be like, I don't agree with this thing and all the people that do it are like this. Kind of like...

I brought up my dad saying that everybody that goes to donate plasma to get money is doing it for drugs. It's really easy for him to look and say, everybody that does that is a drug user. And a bad person rather than going, oh, what about the single mom that just needs help putting fucking food on the table? Yeah. Like, what about like, you know, when I was, I was donating a couple months ago after my entire situation changed at the very beginning of this podcast. And I was.

to old you know older people that were like i'm on my fixed income yeah and my rent just went up 300 this is saving my life yeah so it's like that's where i kind of think fuck you and people and their judgments of like this person is just trying to fucking get by anyways i'm on a side tangent yeah

But yeah, it's just that idea that those absolutes don't exist. And I think the vast majority of people that are doing these things that they're talking about exist in that gray middle. They don't exist to an end. So absolutes are dumb. So this wisdom booklet sets out to showcase two different science like explorations, basically. One that will be found in harmony with scripture.

Of course. That's the good one, FYI. And then another that fails the test of both scripture and science. Spoiler alert, the failure is evolution. So the good science is thermodynamics, which is the study of temperature, energy, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'm not going to get into detail on all the stuff that they talk about it. We would be here all.

fucking day but thermodynamics um is iblp approved and you know they prove it complete with scriptural references that it's just not worth me getting into but i only really bring this up to point out because i feel like this is their way of being like look good science look bad science like i feel like it's a way to be like we don't just we're not saying all science is bad right i i just think it's kind of like a like a way to like

fake it like you know it's no see we we like science just not that science it's the equivalent of somebody saying something super racist and then being like well i have a black friend basically that's what that feels like yeah Well, my mother was 117th Cherokee. So, yeah. I can't be racist. Exactly. Yeah. So I'm really going to paraphrase for the rest of time.

But basically their big gripe is that God's word is that he created each living thing to, quote, yield fruit after his kind. And that the exact phrase is repeated 30 times in scripture. So they say that that makes it very clear that each living thing can only bring forth its own kind. So every living thing was created by God and they do not evolve from other living things.

They may go extinct, they say. But basically, nothing new has been introduced or evolved since the creation in Genesis. They specifically state that... quote dinosaurs and all other extinct animals must have been in the garden with Adam so Sounds to me like if they were allowed to actually watch TV, they would probably be big fans of the Flintstones. Because after all, they do have a pet dinosaur. They could have a Jadino, you know. They might have...

Oh, the Flintstones have a TV, though, don't they? They do. They have a TV. And Betty and Wilma, they have some defrauding outfits. They do. So maybe not. They were showing off them gams. Yeah. So maybe, maybe not. Wilma had that.

Which one had a bone in her hair? Did any of them have a bone in their hair? Pebbles had a bone in her hair, yep. I love the Flint stuff. I know, it's a good show. I love 60s television, by the way. I was watching the Munsters yesterday. It's a good show. So their next gripe is that fossils create an incomplete and distorted picture of the Earth's history. They say, unlike thermodynamics, you know that good science.

Evolution is a theory that cannot be tested in a laboratory, which I find really fucking rich as if they give a shit about something that is proved in a lab. Right. Like something is proved in a lab and all of a sudden they're going to be like, oh, OK, we changed our minds. Fuck no. So I just think that that's the most.

silly argument on their end like well it can't be proven in a lot like you give a fuck about something being proven or not correct if it's not in your oh it's so irritating like that's stupid That's circular reason. Right. So they say instead that evolution is attempted. to be supported by explanation using fragments of data, but not scientific experimentation. So they compare the theory of evolution to a jigsaw puzzle that's missing pieces.

And in fact, this puzzle is now made even harder because it contains pieces from other puzzles. They talk about how just because bones are found by each other, that doesn't mean they're from the same animal. What?

they think that this is some like groundbreaking news like um so so they use that as a that they're oh they said this is this was funny they say that Scientists are constructing animals with various bones producing, quote, weird looking animals which have the head of one animal, the body of another. The wings of a third and the tail of a fourth. Greek mythology. Right?

no no that's bad too no you're telling me yeah because they're making things up like the griffin yeah they're they're like describing like oh like it was it it has the the chimera that has the head of a lion and the but yeah come on

So to demonstrate this argument, they refer to the pit down man. No, it's pilt down. Sorry, I wrote it wrong. My own handwriting strikes again. Pilt down man. A fossil... that they you know they talk about that being you know a problem because it was a couple things put together but what they fail to mention is to go into detail on any kind of how the fact that it has been

debunked or acknowledge how scientists analyze things completely differently now not only from the time of this publication but also you know of writing this actual text but also the fact when that first came out in 1912 and it was completely debunked and called a hoax in 1953 right so it's easy to be like see look what they did over here but it's like we're not they're not acknowledging that that has widely been like this is not real

ignoring 40 years worth of like fact checking yeah so again um major summary but they do go on to acknowledge mutations and variations in species but that doesn't that that does not make a new species. So they equate this to breeding dogs like selectively for example and how like say if you took a lab you can have different colors of labs but it's still a lab. So it's like they recognize how in breeding over time things can quote change.

but it's like they refuse to say the word evolve like they'll talk about change they'll talk about variations they talk about mutations and getting like six fingers on a hand like as an example but they're like oh no that's just a variation of a species like and i understand that a lab is still a lab i like you know or whatever but i feel like it's this way for them to try to acknowledge some some change and say that some things aren't exactly as they were before but be like but it's not

Nothing can evolve, but it can change. I think it's the idea of agency. Because those aren't things that in their thought process are being... Like, they're talking about how these changes happen, but it puts nothing to God's effect on it. Yeah. So it's like they're unwilling to say that these things happen because everything has to happen because of God. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I'm going to leave you with one final point from the wisdom booklets, and it's this.

They say evolution looks at similarities as proof of evolutionary ancestry, when really you should be looking at similarities between living things as evidence of having one creator, not common ancestry. So they literally put two skeletons next to each other. And they're like, yes, we see these similarities, blah, blah, blah. But that just proves to you that one person made it all. You can't piggyback on me showing my work.

in closing they say evolution is not a scientific theory but the foundation of a false religion so dramatic and that it misuses science with contradictory facts and that evolution requires blind faith whereas christianity is based on confirming faith yeah those are alternative facts um so yeah it takes

It's all faith-based, guys. I thought they liked faith. You know, even in this argument here, they talk about having faith. I'm confused. I'm fucking confused. I thought you wanted me to have faith. evolution requires blind faith i thought you liked that shit i think the way that they envision science is uh there's an old jim gaffigan joke where he was talking about seahorses he took his kids to the

He took his kids to the aquarium and they said that with seahorses, the males carry the babies until they're born. And he was like, couldn't they just call that the female? And he's like, I imagine way back when some scientist was noticing this thing. They're like, yeah, the male carries the babies. Well, why don't you, like, doesn't the female do that?

No, not with this one. This one is different. You know what I mean? Like, they're not that frivolous. This idea of them doing science and just being like, well, that doesn't fit with what we're thinking. Let's modify all that. That's not how this works. And I'm sorry to say it.

that's kind of how your magic book has been worked there's been so many different historical figures over the years that have changed what the quote right bible is you know what i mean that's why there's 17 different versions i remember reading in being in that awful worldly college and had taken a class on world religions i did god what were you doing i know but one of the things they did you say dad

And the thing is, none of them were presented in a way where it was like, let's talk about which one's right. It was literally presented a way of like, I'm going to teach you what... What they believe. What their main tenets are. Yeah. And then we would talk about it, analyze it, and move on to the next one. But anyway, I completely spaced on what my point was. I'm sorry. Okay. Sorry.

Are you sure you want me to move on? Yeah, move on. It'll come back to me. Okay. So that's it for wisdom booklets. So now I'm going to focus on some stuff from the IBLP website. Okay. When you go there, they have a lot of lectures by a man named Dr. Job Martin. And it includes a series called The Evolution of a Creationist. Little backstory on Job. Okay. So apparently he grew up in like a Baptist.

family or something like that blah blah blah but he says that even being in that he wasn't saved and he wasn't like a like believer blah blah blah He proclaimed to be agnostic for much of his life. And then like even after giving his life to God and becoming a Christian, he still believed in evolution for some time. Well, at some point, of course, he changes his mind. And like a lot of people do, converting to something like this, he became extra staunch in his belief of creationism.

So now he has dedicated his life for the last several decades to teaching against evolution. So what is his background, you may wonder? Oh, man. Well, he's a dentist. I don't know about you, but whenever I have questions about evolution, I definitely run straight to my dentist. Of course. Although it's quite convenient. Every six months, you can just save up your questions, and then you can ask him at your next appointment.

But don't worry. This feels like the equivalent of them being able to be like, well, the guy who says this has a degree or is a doctor. Using that is like building credence. And it's like, that doesn't.

They have nothing to do with what you're... remember you said md ministry director ministry director but this actually takes me back to episode two way back remember the book does does the abortion or does the birth control pill cause abortion right and remember when i was reading all the doctors he has signing off on it and like the forward

thing and one of them i was like they're a chairman of radiology it's like it's very much all on the same kind of line but don't worry he's not just a dentist after he had this change of heart he uh went to school for theology so we're covered we're totally covered you know what he you know guys just he knows what's going on just listen So on his multiple things listed by him on IBLP, I listened to a 73 minute stirring exposition. Their words, not mine.

By him titled, The Hidden Agenda Behind Evolution. Scary. Yeah. And it was painful. And not just like in a, I disagree with the, you know. the belief system type thing not not even in that way okay um it was painful because number one he's very much that fast talker like if i talk really really fast and i just sound like i know what i'm talking about i'm really convincing right you just believe me

Well, you've got to not leave chances for anybody to ask questions. Yeah. And you just got to like he just he goes super, super fast. And there was often times where I felt like Jim Bob. Having to listen to Michelle where I'm like, is he going to make a fucking point at any time in this? So, yeah, it was pretty bad. I got to be honest. But because it's so bad, I'm pulling just a few select things from it. Okay.

But I mean, there were long periods of time where I was like, good God, where is this going? So in the very, very beginning, after he just barely introduces himself, saying he's happy to be there with his wife. Okay. He says. His summary of evolution is, quote, get rid of God, get rid of Jesus, get rid of the Bible, and then we're home free. Eat, drink, and be merry.

So you can see where what does this paint the picture of the type of guy he is? He already has salt like it's already the I feel attacked. Yeah. So that's just the gist. And now I'm just going to, you know, paraphrase some points he makes. He talks of how certain plants need very specific certain insects to pollinate them. So how could that be evolution? They all need something different. How could that be?

Because they each need their own pollinator. So that has to be gone. And then he talks of like hummingbirds and like building their nests and how they like perfectly balance them. And they know how much weight a spider, like a cobweb that they use to make it to like bind it all together.

um they know how much weight that a cobweb will hold and so they know when they need to do this and they know when they need to add more like it's and he never even really ends it going like how was that evolution but that's what he's getting at like he just rapid fire he talks about the fucking brazil nut and how like you know you can't get it out of its pod and blah blah blah blah he's getting at these things of like

how could that be done if god hadn't made it that way god created the pollinators god told the hummingbird how to like a hummingbird wouldn't know how to do this like i feel like it's completely like you know that things like have nature to them like inherent like survival like you know like the hummingbird kind of figured it out along i feel like the saddest part of this is all of it is very

it's faith-based like feelings feeling sorry for themselves like almost self-consciousness because it's that thing where it's like if I have put forth so much time and effort and mental bandwidth and emotional bandwidth and words that i say i've put all these personal resources into being faithful to this idea I need to make sure that I feel like...

Well, I mean, it has to be all these things. How could this happen without it? I wouldn't waste my time on something that wasn't. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like without saying I'm worried that it wouldn't be true. So now I'm going to try to use all these things to convince myself.

Talk about the Brazil nut. That'll convince the people. And another thing he likes to do, he's very mocking-like. He's like, you know, that's the thing. And this is, you know, I'm listening to it, and it's before an audience. So he has several points where he likes to say things that are very mockery and, you know, to get the people laughing. So just one example of that.

He says, bacteria didn't give birth to rabbits. I mean, but why shouldn't we see this? There's no reason we shouldn't if evolution is true. It's just all by accident. it's like just saying preposterous things and then of course everybody's like yeah like it's no nobody like you're saying something preposterous on purpose because you think that that's painting your

Correct. Like painting them in a bad way. But no, that's not even close to what anybody's saying. So it's like, but why shouldn't we see that if it's all by accident? So dumb. Oh, I got to switch notebooks. um so yes it's just a it's just a tactic to make it all sound even crazier so it's like see look at these idiots look at these fucking dummies you know so then he talks major shit about theologists that believe in evolution

and evolution scientists that claim Christianity, which was my big takeaway from all of this. It was just super black and white. It's one or the other. Like we talked about, yep. Just exactly what we talked about. There's just, that's it. And he says, you have to decide who is true. Is it God or is it man? And then he pauses for a little bit and then he follows it up with, or it. Or is it me and talks of this whole, quote, postmodern generation that chooses their own beliefs and truths?

god forbid people think for themselves and that's that you know i guess i'm that pos that post-modern um generation because um you didn't just listen to your dad no i don't even listen to any one thing it's literally i i take things in and i decide and yeah i don't

have any one belief system i could say i stick to correct not one fucking thing any who's all so then he he just rails on depictions of the like in between between man and ape and he just like goes on and on about the artist depictions of this like in between right how bones don't he says like you know bones don't show your lips have you ever seen a lip on a fossil and you know it doesn't show lips or hair or anything like that so how do they know what it looks like they're just making it all up

Which I find fucking hilarious. Projection. That he takes such issue with this depiction of what it could have looked like based off of the bones that they find. Meanwhile every fucking artistic depiction I've ever seen of Jesus is of a white man. But he was white. I mean.

do you know what jesus looked like did you see you know what i'm saying like so he's like you never saw that like you know so do you know have you fucking seen jesus everybody paints him as i've never seen pictures except for the ones that are coming out now with people being like he was a fucking middle easter you know man everything else like when i grew up it was always a white man he looked like obi-wan kenobi right so i just think it's

real rich that he finds such issue in that yeah why like i think the a lot of times the argument ends up being well you you can't prove that it wasn't done by god And I think that that argument is stupid. Because we could say the same thing. Yeah, the argument from the other side is stupid. Well, you can't prove that it's not that. Well, you can't prove that it is. So what do we control? Yep.

And then on a random side note, like my old sous chef, and I love him to death, Mr. Arthur. Arthur was still a very faithful person, leading on the Christian side. he was also that person when we'd get into like little kind of like theological conversations like he was that person that was like i think This is Arthur talking. He was like, I think that God gave these people a passion for finding knowledge and solving problems.

And he goes, I think those two things can coexist. Which is totally something I'm going to touch on later. I totally agree with that entirely. And yeah, because his thing is like, if I believe that God created all of this stuff, he created us to have... free will and have curiosity and have the the ingenuity to create technology to research these things and so in his head it's that thing of where

god's not tinkering in minutiae it's an overarching idea and that we are existing in that idea was kind of arthur's which i i completely respect that view like as like a it's like a Good way to bridge the two... These two extremes. Because you understand that, you know what, I don't know everything. It's this weird thing of being like, my faith is not attached to the fact that I know everything. And I think that's a disconnect that a lot of people struggle with. that we've been talking about yep

So now let's talk about Mr. Job Martin's response to the question or people's, you know, kind of criticism of how could Noah fit all those animals in that arc? So. He says, well, he took smaller baby ones that took up less space, including dinosaurs. So he got mosquitoes and cockroaches and... And then he says that reports of how many animals would have had to have been on this arc.

He says that he's seen reports as high as 35,000, but he says it's more like 8,500, says the dentist. But he says that's because, you know, they really only needed kinds.

and by kinds he means so they just need one dog he's like they didn't need chihuahua and poodles and blah blah he's like they just needed one kind one dog so they got one dog and then when they got to wherever the hell they got to that dog separated itself into multiple different that dog you know because of them with that you know maybe like mutated or had a variation right i'm a comic book collector so i'm like there was a variant of this dog

Yeah, so that's his big thing there. He says that many animals were probably in hibernation or maybe Noah took eggs of things so that the amount of food he would need would be less. So, you know, you could, you know. That's just smart, you know?

You got the fucking dinosaurs just like running around. Noah's making some big brain plays over there. How much planning do you think this took? He's like, well, I need them to be in hibernation. I need them to be in an egg. I need them to be a baby. Yeah. Man, Noah's got a long... That checklist had to be huge. And he built that whole ship out of wood. God damn. Give me a break.

So I'm going to leave you with one final thought from our dentist friend. And he says that the Bible mentions dragons and that, you know, he says, I think it's dinosaurs. Why not? I point that out specifically only because of how they talk about, you know, taking this like literally interpreting it from the Bible. But then right here, he's just like, I think it's dinosaurs. Why not?

Like, you know what I mean? Like, so why is it that you're saying it's supposed to be literal? Like it said on IBLP's website there. Yeah. It's a literal, you know. but you can just be like but when he says i think it's a dragon's a dinosaur why not i don't know i just can't stand the oh so it's okay for you to like take some like you know yeah

Anyways. Okay, so I'm done with that guy. I had it. There was more, but I can't fucking do it. So I think that's enough to sum up how you think that the rest of that probably went, I think you can imagine. Now let's talk a little bit about just a couple of the Duggar kids and their statements on evolution. So after Jessa, probably like seven years ago now about this point, Jessa visited the Holocaust Museum.

And she made a post where she said that the genocide was rooted in racism, which is clearly, you know, very true. Good job, Jesse. You started off okay. Stop right there. But then she followed up with the fact that it was stemming like the racism. itself stemmed from the evolutionary idea that man came from something less than human and that some people some people groups people groups are

I know. Who talks like that? Some people groups are more evolved and others are less evolved. So let's take the topic of racism and just be like, you know what? It's evolution's fault. So it's not that these bigoted people are looking down on them for physical attributes or their faith or who they believe in. It's evolution. It's evolution.

Okay. Okay. Just so we're clear. Do you understand now? Okay. Okay. So the KKK isn't mad at all these colored folk for having that color and they think they're lesser than they are. They just really believe in evolution. Yeah, it's because they think that we came from monkeys and that's disrespectful. That they came from different species in them, I guess. I don't fucking know. I have no idea.

So then her husband, Ben, or Bin, as she says, was once on a video with his friend that was posted on the internet. I think, like, YouTube and, like, Facebook. And they were discussing racism. And Bin says... Quote, there's no room for racism in Christianity. Stop right there. You're right. That all comes from the devil. That all comes from all this false religion. Out here. Evolution. All that stuff. Teaching that some people are more evolved. So same thing as Jessa.

he either got it from her she got it from him i'm gonna go out and say she got it from him um but yeah so racism has existed far before the theory of evolution ever came to be so that doesn't work no nice try doesn't work So now we're going to talk about Jill. She's our final one we're going to talk about. Okay. So Jill and Derek, they admitted that while they've discussed it, that they've just been too busy with other matters to really hash out their opinions.

So, they said, we both agree that God created the earth in six literal days. This was Jill. She says, we don't believe in traditional evolution, but we do believe in science. She says that she believes in a young earth. So like the 6,000 thing that Boob is always talking about. While Derek avoided giving a definite answer is what this article says. He said, I don't lean old earth or new earth.

He said the Bible is 100% true, but we also don't know everything from the Bible, if that makes sense. It's true, but we don't understand it. But we also don't know everything from the Bible. Okay. I'm kind of confused. Okay. So he's saying if that makes sense. It don't make sense for me. I'm not computing. But Derek said, Jill has a view on it. I have a view against having a view on it. That's stupid. To which Jill insisted right now while he doesn't have time to do research on it.

so i thought that was a real like for a split second for like a split second i was like oh they have opposing views and i'm like for once that's actually kind of refreshing because you know you can't have any different but then she but it so Then she's like, but he just hasn't had time to research. But still, I'm like, that sounds like Jill's like, no, you're going to believe what I believe. Yeah. So even then, I guess that's like.

point two five of a point for jill that she's trying to convince her husband instead of the other way around where she's constantly told just believe what your husband said right so there's this small little bit in it where i'm like what she's not just like the feminist in you is like yeah girl yeah she's not just going with exactly what derek said

but it's all fucking confusing that whole thing was confused right like it was all just like what did they say she's getting her non-specific feminist on his view is to that he has a view against it

my view is to not have a view that's literally what he said so yeah so that is that is the sum up of just some of the Duggar evolutionary beliefs I feel like the challenge from kind of like things that I've experienced is a lot of people go into faith of all different kinds for different reasons.

and one of them is tradition and one of them is kind of just that's what your family does so that's what you do yeah um but i feel like even in that arena or that group of people you have a lot of i'm looking for a purpose in my life and going to an organized religion is kind of an easier way to be like oh okay i have something to

devote my life to yeah right so i think you see that a lot where you're looking for community you're looking for purpose and you're looking for hopefully getting answers to these questions as to why we're here and you know these very like philosophical existential kind of items so i feel like when When you're on that side where you're like, nope, I've found the thing that I'm supposed to be dedicated to. And this is what my life is for. The idea that evolution happens.

means that we're not as important as we think we are. Because at the end of the day, we have nothing to do with... finches developing different kinds of beaks on the galapagos islands in order to eat whatever they eat like that would be variation yeah but like we don't have anything to do with that and it it

If that goes on without us being a major factor to it, we have to say that it's God to protect our pride. You know what I mean? Or just like your belief system. Like it's always protection of their... yeah of their belief system because then if you start questioning that you start questioning everything and that's why college is bad and that's why worldly books are bad because you you don't want to have anybody asking questions so

As I gathered my research for this deep dive, I actually did it in reverse of how I presented it. Okay. Listening to that 73 minute pile of shit. Oof. Steaming pile of shit. That part of your life is gone. Yeah.

that that actually came first so when I was just starting to listen to that I just kept like my question like in my head was just like why do they give a shit like okay like as I've said before I made it very clear i don't really care about if there is or isn't a heaven and hell like that's just not important to me so in the same vein where exactly we came from equally not as important to me in the sense that

while i have my own opinions and beliefs on it i have zero you know desire to argue with people over it correct or even give a about what they believe about it at all like i just i don't care so i'm just like why the fuck do they care so much that other people you want to believe in creationism i truly don't give a shit so like why do they care so much that other people

believe in evolution that was just like was looming over me just just just starting my deep dive and then um it's like i'll you know i'll save caring about what other people believe in for like when it really matters like when it is actually hateful harmful to other people abusive all save giving a shit about other people's beliefs if your belief has zero if i don't feel like you believing in creationism versus

devolution is like like across the board i don't think that that belief in generally speaking isn't doesn't warrant like attention it's like it's not really doing anything right

So it's like, why do they fucking care so much? But that was quickly answered for me when I got to the men's manual portion that I read. You know, that whole rejecting the way that God made them will make them also tend to reject the... the lord and his word and so i was like oh got it now we now we get it and it's just sad because they truly see any opposing view

as a threat to their own faith and by own it's not even just that it's their children which i think is the bigger threat like you know it's like won't somebody think of the children You know, for people who are super devout or strong in their faith and their convictions, it actually seems quite fragile. Oh, yeah. Very, very fragile.

They can't chance any other idea, but it's like, what are you so worried about? Yeah. If you're so... strong in this faith what the fuck are you worried about this guy over here oh because you're worried about it affecting your faith and your as like i said family whatever yeah but

But then take care of that on your end. Why the fuck do you care about everybody else? One of the things that Arthur and I used to talk about. This is a good Arthur episode. Yeah. One of the things that we used to talk about is the. I used to know Christians that would bristle at people that would be like, if you have absolute faith that God has everything to do with your life...

when you're driving on the freeway, why don't you hit the pedal and close your eyes and take your hands off the wheel? And they're like, well, that's just such an insensitive test. You know what I mean? I've met multiple people that take offense to that argument. And looking at it through the way that Arthur would present it makes more sense to me, even though I don't agree with him. Because his whole thing was, much like Han Solo, that's not how faith works.

Like in his estimation of what God is. That's not the way that it works. It's not a he controls every move that I make like a video game. That's not what this is about. And that's not what his faith is about. So I felt like even talking to him, it was very refreshing.

that like so then when somebody does bring up that stupid well why don't you just close your eyes and take your hands off the wheel that's not how it works yeah but I also feel like that takes a good chunk of open-minded open-mindedness to say not everything i do is graced by this idea of somebody controlling all of my every aspect yeah you know what i mean um

I was thinking about how, you know, the emphasis that they put on science, like not being absolute as their argument, I think just really highlights so well how they place. Absolutely zero value on learning. you know like changing changing your views based on new information yeah like i was like you're just highlighting exactly everything that i've always thought but just like this it's just like literally like boob like neon sign around it it's the

I said this a couple episodes ago. It's the Brene Brown thing of like we are more judgmental to other people about things that we are more self-conscious about about ourselves. Yes. So it's that idea. They're afraid of looking into anything because it could affect. They see it as very easily affecting their faith. So they stay the fuck away from it. And they're like, well, why are you looking at that? Like, you know, this is what you're supposed to believe. Yeah. You're going to research things.

It's a political ad where they don't say anything about what their plan is or what they're going to do. It's a smear political ad where it's all about the negatives of the other person. They just can't operate the... in that way of using critical thinking it's the bible or nothing yeah but i mean it's not surprising at all considering how much we know now about how any form of critical thinking is actively suppressed and this just again

points that out yeah um and i just found it interesting how they leave zero room for the possibility of like religion like keeping your religion and believing in like that religion and evolution can coexist in any kind of form again with the all or nothing it's one or the other you follow god or you follow man and that's why i like what you said about arthur's belief system because

It's like, why can't it? Because looking at it through the lens of a person who is trying to keep their faith and also believe in, you know, evolution. Like, why can't it be created by God? Why not? Yeah. It's like you believe in this virgin birth. You believe in Noah's Ark. You believe in Jonah living inside a fish for three days.

So if you believe all these things and that God is like an almighty God and he can make anything happen, why not this? Yeah. Why can't this be part of the process? Why can't he have created scientists? to you know research these you know like why is it like if you guys all believe in a plan and i've talked about how like i just i don't believe in this set plan or whatever but if that's your belief system why can't that be a part of the plan yeah

for argument's sake like why is this so crazy but then you know as i was like thinking about that more it really just all boils down to the fact that they take the story of creation story like literally and they truly believe in that like six days or like whatever you know um and I was kind of looking into the belief systems of people who do believe both. And a lot of their kind of like... I'm just going to say justification for the lack of a better word. But theirs is like maybe...

What we see a day, you know, we think of a day as 24 hours. What if 20, what if a day for God was a thousand years? Like just for example. So I feel like, you know.

that's a way that someone could kind of be like you know like maybe it didn't get down to every fucking nitty-gritty detail like you know but so why is it that it was okay for him to be like I think that dragons are dinosaurs but it's not okay for someone else to say hey I think that maybe a day is 24 hours in the bible correct correct i'm just all for argument's sake i'm just like why is that okay and this isn't and you know we we've talked

before about how bill gothard loves his little anecdotal stories and he loves to take scripture and twist them into this totally different thing yeah so why is it okay so again back to another thing i've said why is it sometimes you're they're told to take it literally and then other times it's like no it means this correct which is it is it fucking literal yeah or is it an analogy or like what the fuck is it can i reference something from my last job yeah so and

Once again, I know when we get into this part of it, it sounds like we're just kind of bashing religion. I don't think that's the purpose of this podcast. And I think Whitney said multiple times that it's really like... Believe what you want to believe. Don't be disrespectful or hurtful or harmful to anyone else. That's the bottom line. You can believe whatever you want, but that's your own thing.

Like, don't push that on anybody. Don't cause harm to anybody else. And that's why even with me giving these arguments right now, they're not even things I necessarily believe, but I'm like, but why not? Why isn't that okay? And the one thing I will say, so I've...

My last job, I was a banquet chef at a facility that could seat a plated dinner for about 1,100 people. So we used to do really big events. What we used to do... certified kosher events and we would have they we would come in they would deep we would deep clean our kitchen they would we had to

rabbis that were there that were kind of watching to make sure we did everything okay we had the meals planned anywho it was a it was a big challenge we had to work outside of this box but the one thing that was frustrating for me was that no Nobody involved had a solid answer as to what the rules were.

And the reason why was because they are getting all of their rules out of old scripture that is now being translated into a different language that was made when most of the things that we do now were not around. Yeah, it's a totally different world. So you have a completely different world, translation to another language, and everything is vague. So one Meshkia might say, yes, the...

Automatic dishwasher that you have is good to go because it sanitizes with high heat water and chemical when we would be cleaning pans or cleaning utensils or whatever. The other one would say that that's not good enough and that we need to take those metal pans outside and hit them with a torch to make sure that there's no other food particles on them.

We'll see. IBLP would say they're just not absolute enough. They'd be like, they're Jewish. That's the problem. That's what they would say. You know what I mean? So it's like.

But that's what IBL people would say because it's a different religion. Well, it's like, well, of course they don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, not saying that they do the same shit. Exactly. And just take maybe not about your pans being kosher. Right. But you're doing the same thing with different. Everybody's picking.

something that they're gonna like rail and harp on like and admittedly as somebody who didn't believe what they believed i was trying to do my best to be respectful to our client be respectful to the food that we were making and be respectful to them because they were there to fulfill a purpose they weren't there to be officer not on my watch you know so i i feel like as much as they were kind of antagonistic when it came to us

being a smooth running banquet operation i don't feel like it had any malice behind it so it made it a little bit easier but i do remember human beings are going to human being depending on which of like the three mishkias that they would send to us we knew what we could get away with and what we couldn't and i'm not they all had different varying standards right so it's like and i will say 100 never

at all did we ever do anything bad it's not like we were like ha ha let's put bacon fat in this you know what i mean so like none of it was ever like oh i'm gonna do something to their food that they don't want none of it was nefarious in that way but what we were trying to get away

from and i'm sorry this is a side tangent but it's a interesting window into like secular chefs doing religious events you know but the one i always tell is that we had a one of them was an older man and he had to check all of our leafy greens to make sure that there was no dirt or bugs in them. So we gave him two bags of baby spinach.

that that's like six pounds so we would give them all this baby spinach and he would using water he would wash it in a bowl and i mean he would like he was kneading dough he was he was fighting that thing and then he would drain it put it onto like a light board and then with like a little jeweler's like eyepiece thing intense stuff for spinach yep he would be looking through all of it to make sure there was no food

no no bugs no dirt is what he was looking for so when we gave him a full case of spinach which was two three pound bags he gave us back like the size of a deck of cards and we had to feed 300 people and he was like here you go Arthur I got your salad spinach done What am I supposed to do with that? It's now waterlogged. It's all beaten up and black. That was supposed to feed 20 people, and it's the size of a deck of cards.

So, and I will admit this out to the world, we would give him a box of like decoy greens that he could beat up. And then while he was beating up this case of spring mix. Arthur and I and the team were plating spinach salads in the other part of the kitchen because we knew, cool, that'll take them 25 minutes to get through. And we literally built 300 salads in 25 minutes. minutes and then he came back all happy here you go Arthur I got your spinach and we're like thanks bud and you know what

You may have damned all those people to hell. Oh, yeah. Well, the Jews don't believe in hell. But yeah, we definitely. See, what am I talking about? What the fuck am I talking about? But when you were talking about all I could think of right now, we're big friends of the nanny. I love the nanny.

All I can think of is when she was like, I don't eat bacon. And one of them was like, yes, you do. And she was like, okay, only if it's in a BLT or extra crispy. So I was like, see, they have their things. Oh, man.

every every like religion just or you know just in different sects and stuff they all just decide on different things that are important to them they'll be really they'll focus on that and this other one really focuses on this but then the other one doesn't and they all talk shit about each other yes

well we talked about that idea of like this is this is that feel last episode we talked about this feeling that you feel that's god yeah That you're like, oh, okay, I think I get what they interpreted and then that's what they took and interpreted that way. That's been in my head so long, like this week since we had that talk. Sorry, my last little side bit on that is I remember not too long ago hearing something that I've kind of taken into my life.

And they were asking the guy about like rough points in his life. And his whole thing, it was on a podcast. And his whole thing was, I understand that moments are fleeting. And I understand that if you're happy, you're never going to be happy forever. And if you're angry or you're sad or these things happen to you, it's never going to be forever. It always ends at some point. And he was like, I understand there's highs and lows.

goal in my life is to have an underlying buzz of contentment yeah and i remember thinking about that this week where i'm like maybe that's god like maybe that's that idea of like people that are like that's that's what i'm saying is this underlying buzz of contentment you know maybe but yeah i think we all have it like i said god can be whatever You need it to be. Or her to be. Or her. Whatever. Whatever.

It doesn't matter if it's just an energy to you, if it's a feeling, whether it's a he or her, an energy, a feeling, whatever. Yeah. I don't care. Just don't be shitty to other people. That is the basis of my belief system. I have one last little thing. All of this made me think back to the Creation Museum episode.

where janice says some of the things that they say in evolution makes sense and then remember she follows it up with the but if you read in the bible you know like whatever yeah but all i could think of was Just even starting the sentence that way, like even giving it an ounce of any form of credibility. Probably made Lego's head like fucking explode. Like his hair probably popped off like in rage. It slid to the side. Yeah, it turned around.

that probably enraged like seriously like if they're this staunch and like all the things that they're saying like like there's no opposition just even starting a sentence that way was like a little tiptoe or he's probably like no danger danger I think you see that with the internet. We've talked about that idea of bringing in other information into that environment.

very detrimental to the amount of control it has over them and I feel like you see this advent of like the internet and being able to get information from other places I feel like you've seen this very steep decline in That idea of like family, traditional, we're Lutheran, this is what we do. And you're starting to see that. So even in a very, very controlled, tight, kind of staunch.

environment this way it's even leaked into them yeah that like oh this isn't completely preposterous like maybe there is some things that make a little sense a little tidbit yeah a little tiny bit but it was funny because all this made me think about um my own like religious upbringing bringing regarding this and obviously you know just

christianity in general of course i was taught the the story of adam and eve although i like it was not a huge focus but like of course i was taught it um but i was just thinking i'm like i have zero recollection of evolution being talked about in any way in both like oh yep belief system like we do believe it but also not like nothing like being railed against it which i mean The Duggars and IBLP, they're not alone. There are plenty of other Christian denominations that like, I mean, actively.

rail against evolution right so this isn't specific to this isn't special to them specific to them or anything like that but i'm just like i have no memory of that so i even text all three of my older sisters and i'm like hey like growing up

do you ever remember evolution being brought up in any way and every single one of them was like nope never even never even talked about once it was never like told we weren't supposed to believe not one thing so then it made me actually like actually google like What do Mormons believe? And when you go to their website, their official thing says, the church has no official position on the theory of evolution.

so i was right there was no reason that i heard either way because they have no position on it well i don't remember that either growing up catholic like i don't remember maybe they also don't have a position on it and the thing is i went through youth group and i like from like sixth grade into like high school. You know what I mean? Yeah. And there was never any, like I did Bible study for a while. Like there was never any talk of evolution.

And I won't get into the full history, but of course then I deep dived into Mormonism and evolution, which I will not talk about right now. This is my life. But, I mean, it's taught in Mormon universities and, yeah. And, like, I read a thing that was, like, they, in a slight way, they sort of touched on the whole, like, kind of Arthur thing in a lesser way. But, like, I...

they like said a thing that says we're going to leave this science to like biology to the biologist. I mean, they just went through and they named like all the different sciences and they're like, we're going to leave the science to the scientists. And they specifically, I was like, this is a little progressive of them.

had a point that said um that it does not that the theory of evolution does not have to be like in contention or against your religion and i was like that is very progressive i'm shocked weird right yeah so Anyways, that's why I don't remember it because it didn't exist because they don't have a position. All right. Anything else from you? I don't think so. Okay.

just reiterating if you believe in creationism don't give a shit that's fine um it's just it's just interesting to me how much they harp on it and because it was talked about in so many different I was like, okay, we got to talk about what this actually is. So as usual, you can find us on the Instagrams.

DiggingUpTheDuggarsPod. Email us at DiggingUpTheDuggars at Gmail. Buy us a pickle. Oh, I just wanted to point out, I really appreciate the pickles people have been buying us lately. The vintage world, my vintage resale has been slow for about three. weeks so uh some pickles have been helpful i really appreciate it so i guess sign out until next week nobody cares what you believe just be good to people there you go be good