Episode 20 - I didn't disappoint my husband, and neither will you!!!

Mother is believing. At least I have a husband, you know. Does anybody here believe it? We are from Arkansas, no? Episode 20. This makes it the... Well, I'm calling this. This could be a bit controversial. Ooh. But I'm calling this the Jubilee episode. Can I ask why is it controversial? Because she ends up not being a spoiler alert for you, Tim. She is not a living child of theirs. Okay. But I chose to include her because she is a major part of the show later on.

Okay. So as opposed to... Miscarriage not living? I mean like stillborn. I mean like early on forced to give birth type thing. You'll see. Okay. Not just like... much further along than jacaleb like okay very far into the pregnancy type situation copy um so this is the jubilee episode and the name of it This one is called Left My Duggar in San Francisco. And it premiered on January 27th of 2009. This is one where, again, we're kind of flipping around in time. So just like the wedding.

michelle's pregnant still so we had watched that special that was the birth in between but now going back to that this is before she gives birth is this why moving jumping ahead a little bit is this why the older girls aren't there because this is when they were in florida with no because this is still being filmed after the wedding okay because remember it's halloween when they're there so the wedding was in september so no okay um

But yeah, I just kind of wanted to again point out how some things are really oddly lined up time wise. So the wedding episode. That we did last week. Tomorrow we're having to record a day early again. Because Tim's work is still insanity. Oh and by the way. He's on the upswing of being sick. But it got much worse after we recorded. Trip to urgent care later.

Um, but yeah, so we're again having to, to record on Sunday when normally record on Mondays. So tomorrow is Josh and Anna's. 14 year wedding anniversary so just sort of funny how remember how we were there was the week of the engagement that we did the engagement episode and then now we're lined up again with the wedding even funnier because we've taken breaks in between so it's just kind of funny to me how

Things keep lining up. Anyways, back to the actual episode. So the episode starts at 6 a.m. and it's Halloween day. This is what it says on the screen. And Boob and Michelle are getting ready and explaining how they've been invited to speak at some Baptist church called the Home Church in Lodi, California. And they say that they normally go to these things as a family.

which of course is the whole circus of it all because it's like look at the ministry of all these children you know right part of the ministry as everything is but since it was close to their anniversary they decide and like close to her giving birth again They've decided to turn it into like an anniversary trip, which is funny because it's not close to their anniversary. They got married in July and this is on Halloween. So I'm just like, just call it a trip alone. It's okay.

It doesn't have to have a reason. You don't have to justify it. It's funny to me. Anyways, so it really starts off with scenes of them packing. And a producer asks if Jim Bob is always a last minute packer. And Michelle says, Jim Bob usually always. So is it usually or is it always? Yeah. Jim Bob usually always packs at the last minute. It's so funny. And this was.

Before you continue in this, it was such an aspect of I can't ridicule him or give him any criticism, but you can tell it grinds her gears. And what it leads to is... Michelle voiced passive aggressiveness exactly that's all it is because she can't say anything else yeah and I know I wrote I got to that um in my writings later yeah um Because it's funny what you hear her say. So she says, there have been many times I've tried to help him pack ahead, you know.

And Lego is bringing out this giant pile of shirts. Still on the hanger. Still on the hanger. And Michelle goes, is that supposed to fit in that suitcase? And then she says, we need somebody who knows what they're doing. Yep.

yeah and um yeah it's more like it's moments like these so i'm glad you said that because i wrote down that like it's kind of these type of moments where i'm trying to figure out if i'm reading too far into it because i'm annoyed or you know or does michelle actually feel annoyed too but so the fact that you picked up on it to me tells tells me that no i'm not reading too much into it like her body language was different and like you could just tell it was that wife thing

of you watching me do something and I can tell all you want to do is scream at me and do it yourself. She's annoyed, but that comment she made was about as annoyed as she's allowed to be. Or like probably even then she probably got to talking to later on or something. But Boob says, I usually wait till the last minute to pack because I don't want to waste all my time.

And then I usually also don't unpack for several weeks. I just kind of unload my stuff as I get back over several week period. Welp, it happened. I have something in common with boob. I definitely, I don't think I, I don't do last minute. I actually pack very slowly at the very end. I'm like just double checking, but I definitely take like forever to unpack. So do you look at the bag behind us right now.

It's true. So we're both a boob in this situation. Yeesh. All right. So throughout this voice over about packing, Jim Bob is doing his hair. And it's. Him unloading a can of hairspray on his hair. It went on for a long time. It was a lot. And the producer says, tell me a little bit about how Jim Bob's hair and the fact that he uses so much hairspray.

And Michelle said, he showed you the secret. Hairspray. And then she said that I think it keeps it in place so he doesn't have to go back and do it again in the middle of the day. Because he's just so busy. She says with as much as he's got going, usually he's wrestling a few boys here and there throughout the day. I think it's probably good for him that he's got something that he doesn't have to do.

to worry about the rest of the day. Like he's like, you know, he's just out there fucking wrestling kids, you know, working hard. All the parenting he's doing. Yeah, you know.

gotta make sure that that hair doesn't move um and again i don't know what it is about these last two episodes but more flashbacks to my father last week it was the fucking brute cologne and my dad has very similar hair to boob same style wise where it's like my dad just had the same hair since the 70s that very parted and then rounded combed over where it's rounded at the forehead boobs is a slightly more straight my dad's is very rounded

and uh you know it's kind of brushed over shit tons of hairspray and then my dad always kept a comb in his back pocket which is funny because it's like it's not like he really combed his hair but like my dad was the type that like stopped at a red light he was like looking at his hair in the mirror and it's like

yeah but he unloaded the hairspray yeah we did a lot of white rain though they were definitely the aquanet yeah because i saw it i was hoping they were going for the yeah my dad was an aerosol it was pump white rain weird yeah but Some weird flashbacks. Tim's only even seen my dad once. We've been together 13 years and he's seen my dad once. I don't know if you remember his hair well. I don't. Look at Boob.

And that's my dad's hair. Okay, anyway, so the next scene, Boob is saying how it's Halloween day and they're going to one of the, quote, most liberal cities in the world on Halloween. So this is going to be interesting. like there's just gonna be fucking sacrifices like on the streets of san francisco you know well remember every cab driver in new york is gonna rip you off

You know, we felt really safe. That's the total same vibes. We found one honest cab driver in New York. Three, actually. Remember, took them three cabs. But yeah, I'm like, what do you think is going to happen over there? You know, there's just like a witch's circle. I don't know. Of course. Anyway, so Michelle talks of how they decided years ago not to celebrate Halloween because of the negative. And she starts to say negative and then like stops. Did you see that? I did.

The only thing I wrote during this part, because I figured you were going to write the quote down, was that I feel like she's tried to start to describe as to why they don't celebrate traditional Halloween stuff.

but at the end of it she didn't say anything no yeah i don't think she knows i don't think she knows why they don't do it yeah so go ahead give us the quote i actually didn't write the quote because it is so much just like but like she starts to say we don't celebrate halloween because of the negative and then she literally just kind of

and goes like, you know, the origins and the spirits and things. Yeah. It's not a clear thought. No. It's just somebody told her that Halloween is bad. Yeah. Very narrow. Oh, Halloween? Bad. Yeah. Go ghosts. Don't like ghosts. They're spooky. So she says that at this time of year, they do a lot of other things like picnics and bike rides instead.

You know, we also do picnics and bike rides and Halloween. It's not like it's one or the other. Recently, I've been thinking about a person that I used to spend a lot of time with, and I used to say that he was so anti-everything popular. And in my head, I was like, being anti everything popular doesn't give you a personality. Yeah. Like, that's not. And like.

Now that we do this and now that this has become kind of a thing in our lives, I will never forget. Every time I would tell him, hey, I was listening to this podcast and he would interrupt me and go, I'm sorry. It is the same vibe. Yeah, that doesn't give you... You not doing traditional Halloween stuff doesn't make you righteous. Yeah. It totally is. We just don't do that mainstream evil. Exactly. Those evil lining the aisles of Walmart this time of year. Anyways.

So then Grandma Duggar supposedly is watching the kids, which we know in actuality is the older kids and grandmas for show to make it look like they've left an adult there. Yeah. But the older girls are gone. Yes, later on. So Michelle says she, that grandma Duggar, honors the direction that we go with teaching and training the children. Yeah. At one point later on, I think it was later on, Jim Bob was like,

Oh, we feel like she upholds our values as well. That's just such a weird thing to be like, oh, my mom's going to watch the kids. I really like it. She keeps them entertained. You know what I mean? Yeah, she does a good job. They love it when she's around. Yeah. Oh, she's always doing... Crafts with them. Like, those are things that you usually hear about, like, grandparents and their relationship with their grandkids. And they're like, she upholds our ideals. No, and training of the children.

So they arrive in San Francisco and Boob says, the people in the city were very nice to us. Well, he was expected to get mugged the second he got off the airplane. Got on the rail and took it into town. So they take a bay cruise and Michelle is nauseous. And I just wrote down how Jim Bob just says, you'll be fine. Just keep eating the bread.

Yep. Like it's very dismissive of the fact that she's not only pregnant. So she's out of like the major nausea. This is towards the end of her pregnancy. But I still feel like you're a little bit more, you know. Like things are a little like hit and miss. You know, you're still kind of suffering a little bit. But then she has nausea. They get motion sick anyway. And she doesn't have her bands.

and but he's just like just you'll be fine keep eating the bread he's like don't ruin this for me michelle that's what it felt like and she was like i'm fine he kept going like are you gonna throw up and she's like i'm fine and then later on she's like okay i might actually get sick right now maybe it's because you telling me i'm gonna throw up every three seconds for the last half hour of my life yeah

There's a Simpsons episode where they realize that Marge has a fear of flying and they're about to take off in this plane and she's like freaking out. She has like three napkins in her hands and she's just like neurotically ripping them. And I always reference this.

reference this to Whitney and it makes me laugh because Homer looks at her and he goes what's wrong Marge are you hungry sleepy gassy gassy is it gas it's gas isn't it that's what this is you're gonna throw up you're gonna throw up you're gonna throw up Michelle you're gonna throw up eat the bread

Are you going to throw up? Please don't throw up. Don't ruin this for me, Michelle. Yeah. That's all I kind of wrote about that cruise. Did you have anything else? No, it was fun looking at it, though, because the last vacation Whitney and I took was to San Francisco. Yeah. So it was kind of cool to see them, like... go around Alcatraz Island. Yeah. We didn't take this cruise that they did that goes all around. Like we actually went to Alcatraz when we were on a boat, but like.

But shout out, we did the, I was just telling somebody about this at work. This is completely off topic, but I think it's cool. We took the night tour of Alcatraz, which was super cool. Always wanted to go. And that was really fun to go at night. Yeah. And it was cool to see like this.

city through those little windows that the prisoners look through um but my favorite part was the boat didn't just take you straight to the island we went completely around they took you around the island so like we got to see from the daytime one so there's a

and cons the nighttime sorry guys off topic the the definite pro to nighttime creepy factor right total creep factor and then you can see all the lights like of the city like he was saying um also the pro of being able to go completely around

The con is that there's less time for you to walk around because you can't just decide to hit a random boat back and stay all as long as you want to. There's like a one time. Obviously, like you're leaving with the staff. Yeah. You know, so either way, just.

There's pros and cons, but I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I told a bunch of people about it. But then when they're going through this bay cruise, there's like, hey, we're about to go under this giant red bridge. Yeah. And then there's this scene of... lego hair being like look michelle it's the golden gate bridge well no shit dude it's the only thing in front of us in this bay and it's kind of iconic like you know i think she figured it out oh is that well

She is a woman. I don't know if she understood that that was the Gully Gate Bridge. We need a lot of leadership, you know. She was busy with her baggage and... And her bread. And almost throwing up. Her baggage and her baguette. Nice. Very nice. Thank you. I thought that was...

That was pretty good. That's my kind of humor right there. Anyways, so after that, it shoots to a scene of all the kids playing, and the producer asks if the younger kids, the younger boys specifically, actually, if they act differently with the parents gone. And Joy says, yes, they act a lot sillier. And then my favorite part.

i think of the whole episode just because i feel like it's a little telling okay is joy is on the trampoline with two other boys that i didn't i couldn't care enough to take the time to figure out who the two were um there's like five of them that are all the same but But they're on the trampoline and they're yelling, Daddy's gone to San Francisco! And I would do the same. Notice it wasn't like Mom and Dad are gone. Yeah. Dad is gone. Yeah.

Interesting. Oh, man. Again, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't like it. so then we go to a horrific scene of jim bob and michelle and they're right at the water's edge near that big giant fucking bridge that michelle couldn't figure out on her own i'm glad he pointed that out for it's a good thing he did um and he's saying

That he's so glad that 25 years ago she said yes to marrying him. And Michelle's all, aww. But it's really not super, very convincing awe, if you ask me. I don't know if you were convinced. I was not. Not at all. And then Lego gets down on one knee like a fucking dweeb. And he says, will you spend another 25 years with me? And it's so corny. And there's really like a lot of loud, but really.

tight kissing between them which i guess um is a better option than open and sloppy but they're very you know there's a very specific sound to like those tight kisses you know what i mean and they just repeatedly tight kiss each other and it's produces some major uh crow's feet on jim bob's eyes every time he tight kisses i don't think i paid that much attention to them kissing honestly well i did so but it reminds me of like old cinema

like old black and white cinema we always make that joke that like the kissing in old black and white cinema cinema um is like they pinch their lips closed so hard and then they just like smash their teeth into each other and they go yeah and then they like pull away and they're like slightly out of breath yeah it's very much like that so it's like that but with sound effects

So now they're walking around exploring San Francisco, and they're talking to some of the locals in a store. And Jim Bob says, you know, when it really comes down to it, inside, people are the same. No matter the color of their skin, how they dress, really people are people. Notice he didn't say religion. Yes. And it's just like, oh, you know, it's so wise of you to, you know, let us know that, you know, people are people.

It just feels like every time they're out and about and outside of their own bubble and around other people, there's always some sort of like disclaimer of like this. And granted, I'm not stupid. I know a huge part of it is the producers pushing that and creating it by asking that question. But I feel like that wouldn't even be a thing to bring up if they weren't giving off the vibe of how...

the outside world appears to them already. So it's like, this wouldn't be a thing if it didn't already seem like you think these things of these people, you know, like, yeah. Yeah. So anyways.

so i love this next part did you have anything to say about that before okay love this part so this is in the talking heads and the producer asks michelle can you tell me a little bit about the head shop you visited and michelle i mean you just you know that they loved asking this question like they were just like giddy waiting to do this and the talking head Yeah. They let it happen day of. And later on, they're like, oh, they're like so excited. And Michelle says, the what? What did we visit?

So it flashes to a scene of Lego and Michelle looking at pipes. Yeah, like glass pipes in a jewelry case. Yeah, in a case. And Boob says, hmm, those are some funny looking glassware, isn't it? So, that's what Michelle's like, where were we? You were looking at pipes, lady. But then they question, they follow up with this so good.

Okay, yeah, it just gets even better. This is like the real heart of the episode right here. And this is a real dweeby moment for Lego hair, too. Oh, it gets so bad. His response. Get ready, people. Brace yourself. So the producer asks. has Jim Bob ever used drugs? And Michelle says, no, Jim Bob has never used drugs. And then Lego says, there've been a few times I've been sick and taken Tylenol or aspirin, but no, I've never.

Here's the part. Ready? No, I've never taken marijuana. Or I've never taken alcohol. Never taken alcohol. Taken. It's the... The verb is just weird. It's like how Tim's dad says the dope, doesn't he? Oh, yeah. I referenced the story. It was like a joke about like somebody being high. And then the way they reacted to like people around them. And I remember telling my dad that joke and thinking it was really funny. And he didn't really laugh. But then he just kind of said, yeah.

That is how somebody would be if they were on The Dope. The Dope. The Dope. Taking marijuana. In the 90s, there was a bunch of kind of like reggae and Scott Punk references because obviously... marijuana use is pretty big in like the reggae scene um but yeah there's the beginning i think of a less than jake song where it's a it's played from like reefer madness or one of those like dumb you know

public service movies like that and it's them talking about the the hippies that he hangs out with and one of the lines is i hear they even smoke marijuana cigarettes Marijuana cigarettes. Taking the marijuana. The dope. So Tim and I always say the dope to each other. I couldn't even remember the full context of the story. I just know that we always say the dope. That's what they would be like if they were on the dope.

yes um so back to what boob was saying no he's never taken alcohol but then he says well except one time he tasted it and he spit it right out he spit it right out what was the thing from the what was the thing from last week where it was like they're not deceived by wine oh yeah don't be yeah yep so one time he was deceived by deceived by but he spit it right out so he's only partially deceived

So then, my God, we're just watching them walk around, and are they sticking out like a sore thumb? She buys a long skirt. yes from the head shop she does um and they're just like looking at stuff and it's funny because one shirt says um the kids are okay right is that what it said it's the kids are all right the kids are all right yeah because it was a bunch of band yeah yeah and then he was like it should say uh the kids are all right and i'm like that's

That is what the shirt says. And then he realizes he fucked up and he's like, our kids are all right. And I'm like, you got it wrong. He tried so hard and he fucking fumbled it so bad. Jim Bob. They do stick out like crazy. I love they go in front of this like this like some sort of business and there's like.

four dudes that are standing out there they have like three dogs and like they awkwardly walk in between these guys and he's like cute dog do you notice how he's got his camera he puts it in his jacket inside his jacket

bro you have a camera crew with you like yeah i don't think people are taking your camera like it's just it's so funny and i watched him do it because he pointed to michelle and was like oh let's go off in this direction and as he was saying it he was like sliding his jacket lapel over his...

Well, you know what it reminded me of? There was like a boy in elementary school that was like always getting in trouble for reading when he wasn't supposed to be reading. I mean, there's worse things to be in a book nerd. What a thing to get in trouble for in school. Your kid reads too much in class. But like, I just remember he would try to sneak his books everywhere and he would like put them in his...

jacket and i was like this is like the kid from elementary school except it's boob and his camera so there's a guy playing guitar like on the sidewalk sitting down and boob gives him a dollar and um a postcard of the family and michelle's just like our sons are learning to play the guitar and boob takes a picture of him and i'm just i don't know like i just think it's so odd like

it's like this guy isn't a circus animal like i don't know like he's it's just like he didn't really like even ask permission right he just took a picture of him yeah anyways you see that a lot in like the cosplay circles

Because the whole thing is like people that are doing this, male or female, mostly female, let's be real, are doing this because they like to do it and they like the community and they like the craftsmanship. And the whole thing is like, don't take... unsolicited pictures of people and this guy isn't even dressed up in like

You're not even looking at it going, like, this is some, like, artistic thing. He's playing the guitar. His art that he's offering right now. He's in, like, a leather jacket. Like, he's just in normal clothes. He is offering his music, not, like... And it would be different if he was, like...

Are you okay if I take a picture of you? Or are you okay if I take a picture with you? You know what I mean? Yeah, but this guy just was like, he looked, they handed him the postcard and he's like, okay. Yeah, exactly. It's funny.

So now they're in a coffee shop and they're telling the guy working there about their anniversary and how they have 18 kids. And the guy's like, well, I mean, it's like the typical bullshit that we see all the time. But the part that stuck out to me was when Boob was talking about having 18 kids, he like kind of like cradled Michelle's belly. And then he says, she's been good to me. And that just gave me the icks. Like, something about it was just like... Like...

Like that's her only purpose. Yeah. And like, like look at her making me all my babies. Like, I don't know. Like something about it. Like it just, it just hit me different than I think before. I probably would just heard that in passing and kept moving. Correct. But it just, I don't know. It struck a chord in me. Again, maybe I'm.

reading into things but for me it just kind of hit me on a weird level i think it's just kind of everything like you you feel like you feel like at the same time like the the women in these relationships are obviously absolutely vital to like keeping this together but then they're also relegated to like you're just you're just a part of this process you're not you're not a person in this yeah you do what you're told yeah

And you even see it when they're, when they randomly have a conversation of like their feeling, their thoughts on certain things and like war came up and weird. It's in this scene, but like. he asks her what she thinks. And as she's trying to like get her words out, she defers and just kind of looks at him. And then he like finishes all of her answers. She'll say two to three.

words yeah she'll not a full sentence and he finishes it yep and that kind of goes into this next part uh because throughout the episode they've been sort of playing up the whole like san francisco hippie thing and it hasn't been anything worth noting up until this point but they they ask um the camera guys ask how do you describe the hippie movement and how does it compare to you guys and um spoiler jim bob is very awkward in his answer but he says love

No wars. Peace. I think everybody's looking for peace. And here we are 40 years later and we believe in peace and we believe in love. Our slogan would be what, Michelle? And Michelle says, And you can tell she's like, he thought that she was going to get it. And she doesn't get it. Like she goes, uh, for love, uh, for a long time. Like, so she says love more. And she's like looking at him and he goes, have babies. Yeah. And I think that.

It's funny that I already had the ick with him saying that. And then him now being like, part of his slogan is, have babies. Yeah. Because if it was a thing where it's like, oh, what it felt like... was if it was like, oh, our family slogan is blah, blah, blah. And it's something that they've talked about. So then when he was like, what's our slogan, Michelle? Then she would be able to go, oh, well, you know, our family always says blah, blah, blah. I think he was trying to have that moment.

moment without having that relationship yeah so it's like he was trying to push that with her and she was he was not a very good improv partner because she was trying to yes and and he gave her nothing to work with yeah Yeah, they definitely could not do improv. They can hardly handle the cue card. No, what's our slogan? Can I interject with something off topic again? Sure. We have a restaurant that we just went to the other night that I love.

It's called Dazzo's Doghouse. Shout out Dazzo's Doghouse in Glendale, Arizona. It's like a Chicago dog place. They only take cash. Everything in there is super cheap. Hand-cut french fries. They put the order on a little piece of paper and it goes on the clothesline. Old school. It's so good. But...

I wanted to support them, so I bought a t-shirt. So it has their really cute logo that says Dazzo's Doghouse. It says where they are. It says established like 1970 or whatever, whenever the restaurant was open. But then at the bottom, it has a quote. and in my head i was like okay you know it was opened by like the patriarch the headship of their family um so i was like okay maybe this is something that like

The dad used to say a lot. And you would assume it would be something funny or have a good doggone day or something. You know what I mean? Something that would relate to it. Their slogan on the shirt says, see you tomorrow. So it's Dazzo's Doghouse quotations. See you tomorrow. Well, you know, our famous family slogan, good morning. I know.

You'll be like, so Whitney, what's our? And I'll be like, um, good. And you'll be like, morning. I'm trying to mouth morning. You know what I mean? That's what that felt like. The famous Salgado slogan. But for real, weird slogan aside. Very good hot dog. Amazing dog joint. Oh, man. So then Boob continues and he says, as Christians, we believe in love. We probably have more love than any couple on the face of the earth.

But we believe in the context of marriage. And then Michelle pipes in and she says, the way that God defines it. Because they cannot miss a not so subtle way to hate on gay people. Let's just... Well, they're in the homeland. They had to throw that in there to make it very clear that just because they're in San Francisco, they still hate you gays. Exactly. They needed to make sure that made the episode. This was the way to throw that in there. We're not supporting your lifestyle.

Yeah, they needed to make that very clear. Maybe they asked that guitar player if he was gay or not. Gays with their funny glassware. Any who's also back at home, Jana says that some of the older kids are gone. So she and grandma are taking the younger kids for a picnic at the park. But when Jana says some, she means all.

All older kids. There was not sight of one single older kid, not even a boy, if you noticed. So, Cinder Janna gets the shaft again. And while everybody else is off clearly doing something more cool than being at the park.

with the little kids janna's left behind and um yeah so that's that they were all gone like yeah she was technically the oldest kid in the house she was um so it's funny

So in this picnic montage, Jim Bob talks about how a year ago they found out, this is like a, you know, like talking head voiceover. They found a tumor in Grandpa Duggar that started at the back of his brain and he had one operation that... he seemed to have done well with and he hadn't really been slowing down up until about a month ago prior to this being filmed and um now you do see him like compared to what we saw before like remember when

anna and josh came from florida like he opened the door and he was like hi and he was the one talking the camera saying he wished they'd stopped having kids yeah he seemed from then which would have been um july to now and October like you see quite a difference he's much thinner um he's kind of struggling to walk and yeah so he was kind of Michael Keaton Batman

Yeah. He went to turn around to do something. He had to turn like his whole torso. I'm assuming because of his head. Yeah. So you can definitely see the difference. Yeah, definitely. um cousin famy shows up because bitch can't miss an opportunity to be on camera so of course she runs around with the little kids because that'll make the show she knows um and then it just kind of ends with them

Jim, Bob, and Michelle speaking at that church finally. And I thought it was funny, the sign at the church. Did you see how it said? Now on TLC. It says as seen on TLC. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so. This is where now the show has really been like the episodes have started airing. And I mean, they could have said that before, even with the specials. But I feel like by this point, those beginning parts of the season.

were airing so it was like look who we're getting now like oh and you know that this wasn't just them like talking out you know they're getting paid for this you know what i mean yeah this is like you know it's a paid speaking event but it's paid ministry correct yeah So we noticed that, well, at least I noticed. Why did I say we? You did not notice. I noticed. Damn. No wonder they say that you talk down to me. Maybe if I would just stop talking down to you. Yeesh.

You're in bad standing with me. I noticed that Michelle is wearing what she wore to Josh and Anna's wedding.

which i didn't mention it in the episode because there's a whole lot going on not worth bringing up at the time but now i thought i would it definitely looks like a pajama top that she pairs with pearls because it's just the way that it's like a black t-shirty almost like tight material and it's got button down buttons down the front but the way it just looks like a button-up pajama shirt like i would feel like i would see that over in like at walmart

across from the from the hallmark card section because that's at least in my walmart they're always right by the cards and it's like And then she just slaps on a string of pearls and is like, I'm going to a wedding. I'm going to a speaking engagement. So in this talk that they're giving at the church.

they of course have to get into the whole jacaleb thing and how birth control caused his miscarriage and they're just like they felt so awful and they show everybody in the audience like crying and you know so you know trying to bring people in through tears and of course hardship and how they've now since found their way and blah blah blah so um do you have anything else to say that's kind of how i ended off no they went home yep that's kind of it yep

They show up at home in a convertible. Did you notice? BMWs. It's probably from Josh's car lot, as I'm assuming. I think that they think that they're real cool. Remember, that's what they drove in on their double date. Of course. Their incestuous double date. Yep. Yep. Okay, so I think that sums it up. Another thing funny, talking about Halloween, I'm getting ready to decorate for Halloween. See these little time things.

Yeah, it was just kind of a filler episode, which is fine. We've had some fucking heavy shit for the last two, so I'll take a filler. I'm okay with it. Okay, so I guess we will take a break and we'll be back with the deep dive. We're going to hit the Bethel real quick. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second.

If your identity is stolen, our U.S.-based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans, or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. So for this week's deep dive, it only seemed appropriate to cover the seven basic needs of a wife.

Because two weeks ago we covered the seven basic needs of a husband. And this episode is still kind of somewhat centered on marriage being their anniversary anniversary trip five months later. Right. So it seemed appropriate. And I thought we should see the other side of things. And the Josh and Anniversary. Oh, that is a good one. Damn, how did I never think of that? I'm kind of mad.

Good job. Kudos. All right. Okay. So just kind of like before, I'm going to read the seven basic needs and then we'll dive into each one. So number one, a wife needs a husband who demonstrates... Spiritual leadership. Number two. Well, we have gin and tequila and stuff. We're covered. I made your gin drink that you're drinking right now. I feel like I've shown spiritual leadership. Yep, definitely.

Number two, a wife needs to know she is meeting her husband's vital needs. So her needs are about meeting his needs. Got it. Got it. Funny, right? Funny. See where this is going. Number three is a wife needs a husband who cherishes her. Okay. Number four, a wife needs a husband who protects her. Number five, a wife needs to have intimate communication with her husband. Number six, a wife needs a husband who honors her and her co. Number seven.

A wife needs a husband who invests in her life. Okay. Okay. So those are the seven. All right. So like last time, I'm kind of interweaving the like basic outline definition kind of just like. bare bones um of the basic teachings of of the needs along with an article how can i meet my wife's seven basic needs okay so kind of interweaving the same way i was last time

But first, I just want to point out a difference between the two. The article about the wife meeting her husband's needs had the subtitle or like subheading, whatever you want to call it, of how to be a godly wife, if you remember that. Okay. The funny part is this version of the man meeting the wife's needs. The subtitle is loving her as Christ loves the church. Okay.

Which, I mean, just notice how it's not how to be a godly husband. Yeah. I just find that interesting. But it's also relating them to the position of the person they think is their savior. Yeah. So it's also self-aggrandizing of like... You need to look at it from the perspective of this person that we hold in reverie. And it almost seems like, well, you're already gone. It's like, I mean, not like...

Kind of just like that's not a thing. Correct. It's just like you just need to love her as Christ loves the church. Well, yeah. So I thought that was really interesting before I even got started. I just kind of went like, huh? And then it all made sense. Oh, God. Because remember how I said that there was... The text for sale on the IBLP needs of the wife that cost $20 and was 88 pages compared to the $2 and eight page one. So literally 11 times smaller. Yeah. So I, well.

It seems from what I can gather that the reason it's so much longer is just because that book is full of a ton of those stupid little anecdotal stories that we know Bill Gothard loves to try to... to really he you know it's such a tactic of like look at this story and this is gonna really prove my point pull you in like you know um so yeah i didn't buy that

And I couldn't find anything online that gave all of that. Okay. But what I do have is all those same type of texts that will give us the information we need. I just don't have those stories. Okay. Yeah. So. And with these texts, the amount of material is seriously such a fraction of what it was for the wife to study on her husband's needs. Well, yeah. Like, it's crazy. So...

That's because what we went over two weeks ago had just like way more like rules. And it really seemed like a like a true how to guide for the wife. Whereas this one is like short and sweet. Because I'm assuming the men are the rules. So what do they need? Well, also, they're so busy. Who has time to read a whole pamphlet about how to be a good husband? I mean, he barely has time to comb his hair a second time in the middle of his day.

um yeah so just the content really isn't the same and I'm gonna way go over this later I just kind of wanted to say this up front so they're just similar in this in the sense that there's still a basic outline of guidelines and explanations but it doesn't have the same rule book type feel

that the wife had for meeting her husband's needs. So to me, now I understand the difference in those subtitles. Correct. Anyway, so we'll go ahead and we will get started. Let me grab my papers. I got to do a paper swap. Get my packet out here. Oh, man. But I'll tell you, this packet, including some other stuff, is a very large-spaced six pages, and the other one was very squished-together 11. So.

And I added extra stuff into this. And she has transparencies to put on the overhead projector. I liked it when they wrote directly on the projector without the transparencies. And then they would just clean it. Yes, I was like, that's so cool. You know what I loved as a kid? I was a big nerd cartography person. I loved the quadruple. I really loved the quadruple roll-up map. Oh, yeah.

and it's like it was like the map of like arizona and then if you held that one layer and pulled down then it was like the country i loved that I love globes. Whitney knows I love globes. My goal is to have a fancy library and have a really cool globe in it. You don't like the one we have already? The vintage one? I love that one. I'm just kidding.

Okay, so let's get started on how can I meet my wife's basic needs? Meeting your wife's seven basic needs. Loving her as Christ loves the church. Just wanted to reiterate that. Well...

Christ gets money out of the church, so I'm going to need a Venmo transfer, honey. So as a husband, it says your responsibility is to nurture and cherish your wife, to instruct her and to meet her needs. And it says you are to love your wife as you love yourself.

Which I guess would be a lot because these men seem to think really highly of themselves. So I guess if they're loving their wife as much or as they love themselves, it should be a lot. Yeah. They seem to really love them some them. They really love them. It says, as you love your wife, as Christ loves the church, she will be motivated to reverence you. Cool.

So it's not done to have a good relationship. No, not at all. It's done so she will give you scratches. Yeah, and, you know, admiration and all that shit. Yeah, she'll listen to you. Yeah. Okay, so the number one one.

was a wife needs a husband who demonstrates spiritual leadership, as Tim stated with his making of cocktails. Gin cocktail. It says she needs the stability and direction of a spiritual leader because, you know, she's incapable of... you know anything on her own so true yeah she needs that it says as your wife sees you establish godly standards in your life she'll be motivated to set similar standards in her life and submit to your leadership again

Power tactics. And then, so here's some ways that you can demonstrate that spiritual leadership. The first is by maintaining biblical disciplines, such as... Reading and studying of God's word. Consistent memorization of scripture. Fun. Faithfulness in prayer. Regular church attendance. fellowship with committed Christians, and conversation about spiritual matters. You can also demonstrate that leadership, you know, by living by scriptural convictions...

Which would be like demonstrating your love for God by loving your wife and children and others. Okay. Because you couldn't just love people without it being, you know, to show that you love God, you know. Anyways, purposing to make your home a center of godly learning and living. And avoiding actions or activities that might cause your wife, children, or others to stumble.

i think not putting too many steps in the house making sure the floor is even there's not a lot of rugs yeah you don't want them to stumble no but i i'd argue that josh failed to avoid a few things um but uh Funny because as a man, I'm sure he's still considered a spiritual leader despite all that shit. Yeah. All that stumbling. Well, he sweeps up goldfish. Yeah. So just funny. It's like, does it ever get revoked? Or because you're a man, are you always a spiritual leader? Right.

you know yeah just interesting you brought up something this came up at work and i think we've talked about it a couple times like i think about decisions that i make in my life towards other people And I feel like if you took my actions and you put them into the body of somebody who was a self-professed like faithful Christian, I feel like what.

the actions are saying are the same. Because I feel like I treat people well. I feel like I'm respectful. I feel like I take care of the people around me. Yeah. You know, kind of these things that are part of that plan. More moralistic, you know, than anything else. Yeah. Yeah, and I feel like I don't do those things because I feel like I'll go to heaven if I do, and I don't do them because I feel like if I don't, I'll go to hell. I do them because I feel like...

That's the way that I run my life. That's the way that I want to treat other people. It's not because of potential reward or consequence. It's because that's how you want to be. It's because that's how I would want people to treat me. Yeah. You know, we brought up, if I can interject for real quick, this is an old post that I saw online that said the, the purest.

measure of the way that like kind of the the effect that somebody has in their world is pushing their cart their shopping cart back to the corral at the grocery store And the reason why is because there is no inherent benefit to you as a person to push that cart back to the corral. You don't have any monetary gain. You don't save any money. You have no benefit to you to do that. And there's also no consequences to not doing it.

So the reason why it is pure is because what it means is that the only reason why you choose to do it is for the betterment of somebody else's life. And I'll be honest, man, sometimes when it's 116 outside and there isn't one anywhere close, I'm like, fuck, I wish I didn't have to do this. But then I do it because I'm like, somebody else is going to be out here having to be out here longer doing this than me to gather it.

I do it every time. And I will gather other ones that I see and do it. Because you know what? It's always some low-paid 16-year-old kid that they may go out and corral all the carts. And it's like, you know what? If I can make their day a little bit easier, perfect. yep so i just think about that like the only reason for them to do these things is for potential praise or for potential pickle tickle like that's the only

That's the only motivation for them to do this. It's not to be a good husband. It's not to make sure that your wife's life is enriched or your relationship is stronger. It's how can this benefit you? Yep. Because if and if she seems Christ like or whatever, that looks good on you, too. Like, you know, it's all about making them look better, whether it's through themselves or through their wives. Correct. Yeah. So.

Then it says to be an example of obedience and faithfulness to your wife as you uphold godly convictions in your family. So then the question is, what are some things that might hinder? You, you know, upholding some of those convictions. Wrong priorities. Pride, which I think these all have an insane amount of pride. Exactly. Pride slash ego, you know, same fucking vein. Guilt from past failures. Lack of wisdom, which I think Josh has.

Quite a bit of lack of wisdom. Losing your temper. Bondage to enslaving habits. So dramatic all the time. Maybe they listen to that rock music. Maybe they're in bondage to that rock. Influenced by an attention to television, which this is where I hear Kelly Bates. Remember that episode where it was like that theoretical like bullshit about TV? And it's in this moment that really highlights how nothing...

Nothing that they say is like an original thought. Correct. It has all been in a piece of paper. Like right here saying, influenced by an attention to television. That could hinder you. Yeah. Well, it's like they make them so afraid of it that when it comes up, that's the only thing they can say. Well, it's just funny because if that's the same thing, why isn't there a long list here of anything that could take your attention away from something? But you're just choosing TV.

And if television is so bad, don't you also think that monetarily benefiting from television is bad? You would assume that the Duggars would never do this. But it's ministry, Tim. Because this would be the equivalent of them, like... Like making their money off of a rock band. Yeah. You know what I mean? Or like a distillery.

You may not be using your product, but you are still selling your product. And then you tell people that that product is bad. And even if they think it's the message, okay, and it's ministry, isn't it still taking time away, possibly? Right. I don't know. The hypocrisy of it all. And then the last one says companionship with wrong friends. To determine steps to overcome obstacles and walk in the victory. This is the...

The drama of this, okay? And walk in the victory that has been purchased for you by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. Okay. I hope you bought that used and saved the difference. I hope you got receipts.

You should probably return that. Another way that you can demonstrate your spiritual leadership is to demonstrate genuine love. Your wife needs to see a demonstration of genuine love in everything you say and do. And then it specifically says to list the ways that you demonstrate love to your wife, then ask her to explain which ones do or do not express love to her and why. So they're big fans of lists. I too am a fan of lists, not these types of lists.

Okay, we're moving on to number two. All right. A wife needs to know she is meeting her husband's vital needs. She says she finds security and purpose in knowing that she is meeting her needs in her husband's life that no other woman can meet. She needs to know that she is precious in his eyes. So did you know, Tim, that the scourge of a woman is jealousy? Oh. The fear of being displaced? Oh, okay.

It's my fear. Better keep your hair in those tight, crunchy curls. Your wife needs to be confident not only that you love her, but that you also desire her companionship and sincerely need her assistance. You can do that by... I was going to say, if you ask Whitney, she definitely thinks I need assistance. You can do that by sharing your needs because your wife needs to know that as your help meets, she completes you. Do I complete you?

Yeah. And you need to give your wife the satisfaction of meeting your needs. So explain your needs.

with openness and clarity so that she can meet those needs and accomplish your top priorities for the family. I'm hearing that her needs are to make sure that she's... getting everything done right for you like you know what i mean it's not really a her need yeah this doesn't have anything to do with her do with her at all that's the theme going forward um then it says that it's human nature for a husband to not want to share his needs with his wife

um because you gotta you know fight the urge to be a man because it says that he he doesn't want to risk losing her admiration so they're saying fight that urge to be you know a man and uh If you do it, you will win your wife's love more effectively if you honestly share both your failures and your successes. Because you know. Once again, that part of the sentiment is not false.

like telling your spouse like what success looks like is good but then they mess it up no they're just incapable of getting through one fucking thing with like we're like oh yeah it's great You almost had it right is how I feel about the last two deep dives. You can let her know that she's meeting your needs by thoughtfully praising your wife.

Is your wife meeting your needs in your life that no other woman can meet? Compile a list and share your thoughts with her and express gratefulness for her meeting those exclusive needs. Okay. So here's a few examples to consider as you compile your list of, you know, your own unique little list here. It says she can give you the joy of physical relationship without guilt. So this is praise for her.

You're telling me praise for her is like, hey, we can bone and you don't have to feel guilty about it because we're married. How is that praise for her? I just don't understand. Don't get me wrong. I think it's a good sense of it, but it's definitely... What do you mean? If you were having a rough day, I wouldn't be like...

But think about it, honey, we can bone without guilt. Once again, that has nothing to do with praising your wife. Yeah, no, that is not praise. That is, that's fucking stupid. But listen, honey. You don't have to feel guilty. Next time you're having a really rough day, I'm going to put my hand on your shoulder, and I'm going to tell you that I'm sorry, and I'm going to look thoughtfully into your eyes and say,

But we can bone and not feel bad. And I'll be like, oh, what praise? How is that praise? How do you know how to say the right thing all the time? All the time. It's amazing.

never ceases to amaze me um and then another thing you know some other praises she's a safeguard to your hasty decisions because of her need for security and consistency honey you know you help me not make hasty decisions because you're thinking of our security uh yeah i mean like but she has to give you a fucking appeal that has like they make it sound like it's that simple yeah when we read

Exactly how it's not that easy. Anywho. Just because you quoted Aladdin to me. Says that she discerns the real needs of the children. So, yeah, that's a real grand list of praise ideas. Great. That's all they give, too. Like, that has nothing to do with her. Well, good, because that's all I wrote down. So you have a vision of what your future is. Three things, and none of it has to do with her at all.

It's insanity. And then for the man, it was like all these things. It was like 12 things. Remember how I whittled it down to like five? Fuck. Anyways, we're on to number three, which you see how we're moving pretty fast compared to the other one? And we're only even going any slower because we're interjecting quite a bit. See how we're already on three? Remember how long it took us to get? Okay.

A wife needs a husband who cherishes her. Cherish means to protect, love, and to care for tenderly and to nurture. She needs your reassurance that you cherish her and value her above all other people, possessions, or activities. I don't think Josh loved Anna more than porn. I don't think he cherished her more than porn. Probably not. um it says to avoid that oh yeah i love this one if she does not feel cherished she becomes insecure okay so to avoid this they suggest

Listing the character qualities and personality traits that first attracted you to your wife. So more lists. And then I love this part. You may want to write this list in your prayer journal as a reminder. You know, in case you forget why you like your wife. Why do I like her again? Oh, that's right. Yeah. Line. And they would probably be like, I love you because we can bone without feeling guilty. Yeah.

Everything in this thing. Praise. Why you love her. Take your pick. It's all. And you can help her know you cherish her by deepening your wife's security through acceptance. I accept you. Oh, thanks. What a relief. For the burden that you are. I take care of all your baggage. And my baguettes. And your baguettes, yeah. So, it says to live. Oh, a wife needs to know that her husband accepts her unchangeables, especially things that she herself is having difficulty with accepting.

Okay. So as the husband, you have this like unique opportunity to love your wife by helping her learn the scriptural basis of self-acceptance. Oh. So help us along. Help me accept me. So it says to list any unchangeable physical features, family circumstances, and past experiences that your wife finds difficult to accept, such as physical handicap. poverty or divorce divorced parents because those are the worst things they could come up with that's

I mean, the fact that they chose those three things is so telling. It's so weird. And it's incredibly telling that shows that that's what they judge. To include divorced parents shows that they seemed like they would be like, ooh, she comes from a family of divorce. Divorce. Yep. Divorce is bad. Being poor is bad. But there's so many of them that are poor, which is so funny. Because they have a million kids and quit good jobs to go be a fucking minister. So that's not unheard of in their circle.

But you know Shura's shit. They like to pretend that it's unheard of in their circle. It's just wild. You just are pointing out everything you find.

judge for. It's going back to that Brene Brown. Thanks for pointing that out. So it says to ask the Lord to show how each of these... unchangeables has produced or strengthened your wife's character qualities or attitudes that you admire which takes us back to remember what the other one the wife the the basic needs of the husband where it was like well even if he doesn't

do the right thing it's like it's helping you in uh your forgiveness and your patience right right so yeah these unchangeables like your fucked up divorced parents are helping you grow yeah share these insights with your wife and help her understand the ways that god has benefited her life through those situations that are beyond her control oh good you don't hate me because my parents were divorced

We're on to number four already. So number four is a wife needs a husband who protects her. She wants her husband to be alert of her spiritual, mental, and emotional and physical strengths and weaknesses and to lovingly provide direction and security. Like when I tell you to lift with your back. Yes, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Thank God you're here.

She needs to be well understood so that her husband can then discern when to be firm and when to be lenient. It's so bad. Lenient. Like he's like you're a fucking child. Yeah. Like. Like if you ever said something to me about like, well, I'm being lenient with this. I'd be like, the fuck are you talking to? Like, you don't put your heads in my face. My father don't put his hands in my face. Yeah, that's me. Yeah. So.

You can protect your wife by helping her establish appropriate boundaries. So she needs your protection. Okay. Informing. boundaries so that she will fulfill her responsibilities with inappropriate limitations again what is about her here It's like, we're going to make sure that you're not overdoing something so you can still do everything I want you to do, okay? I feel like just like the last one was God's Guide to Fragile Masculinity, this one's like...

I didn't disappoint my husband, and neither will you. That's how this one feels. Yeah, it's... It's so disgusting. This has nothing to do with you. It's how you avoid being a dishonor on our family. I'm like, what the fuck is that? I mean, if you just said protection... form of establishing boundaries and you stopped there I might think that could be like

cutting out unhealthy relationships blah blah doing all these things but to follow it up with so that she will fulfill her responsibilities it's like oh you're over here you know getting broken up over this thing that's happening but you have not done the dishes you have you know like it's it's the focus is on her not getting done what she's supposed to because of these things correct

Winnie has a hardcore stink face through most of this. And I'm sweating again. And it's not even because it's hot in here. It's because I'm mad. So yeah. So work with your wife to discern her top priorities, which means your top priorities. Let's be real. and ensure that she has the time and resources needed to fulfill her responsibilities that's the important thing here exactly don't let her get caught up in other things so she can get her work done

Oh, man. This one's worse than the other one. No, I don't think it is, actually. You don't? I'll tell you why later. Does your wife need your protection through the loving provision? need your love through loving provisions of boundaries in any of the following areas so this is them giving you ideas of things okay she might need your help with okay lack of sleep unfinished projects inappropriate clothing

Poor eating habits. We can't have her getting fat, remember? No uggos allowed. Right. Neglecting personal appearance. No uggos allowed. Facts. Tardiness. Destructive self-criticism. Which is funny because all they sit here and tell you is that you need to stay pretty for your husband. But you don't be destructive to yourself. Don't talk bad about yourself.

you're just a dishonor on your entire family and your old headship and your new headship but don't don't be down about it yeah um and then volunteering So I pulled this from something else on the same topic, but I just thought it was this one line. Occasionally your wife will ask you for something she doesn't really want. She's testing you to see if you are perceptive to her real needs and dangers.

so we're fucking stupid and can't think for ourself but we can just like we come up with these things to test you but then you're playing games yeah like which the fuck is it are we dumb as fuck Or are we diabolically coming up with these plans? It's Schrodinger's wife. Does the cat exist or does the cat not exist? Is the wife really dumb and needs you to guide her through everything? Or is she devious and she's testing you?

So number wife, number five, a wife needs to have intimate communication with her husband. A wife yearns for intimate communication with her husband, intimate conversation is a key factor in maintaining oneness of spirit in your marriage. Your wife needs to know that she can safely share her deepest emotions with you.

But not if they make you feel bad. Yeah. And also, she probably won't ever make a point, you know, like Jim Bob says. And, you know, she'll want to tell you, you know, all these details. All these details. Who has time to listen to details? You'd be wise to establish a regular time to invest in your wife by giving her your undivided attention. Your investment will earn an amazing return. Ew. Everything about that was gross. I know.

Well, and so now it's just like, you know, more tips on this, on communication. So it says set aside time for talking together, establish like a regular uninterrupted time. And then it says like, if you haven't established that yet. It's like, make sure to come up with that in the next week. Then your enthusiasm about the idea will bless your wife. But you may have to persuade her to make the commitment to give her...

to give you her undivided attention, especially if she tends to be a diligent wife and mother. But it ends with this like, you know, it says persevere. It is worth it. Dramatic. So dramatic. you um and then it just talks about like you know trying to make sure there aren't distractions blah blah blah and so that could be phone calls talking to friends you see loud music or other irritating noises oh my interruptions by those pesky children

Ask the Lord to make you alert and sensitive to distractions and purpose to avoid them or eliminate them, whichever would be most appropriate. I know that wasn't a really necessary line, but it's just so stupid. It's dumb. And then part of your communication that you're having with each other should be addressing her fears and concerns. Okay. You got like...

30 seconds to give it all to me because that's about all i'll listen to so go ahead make your point yeah make your point fear concerns fast bullet points so it says most wives have deep fear and emotions that they never share with their husbands But it's your responsibility to lovingly and patiently, you know, you got to be patient with us. Tell me about it.

Help your wife identify and verbalize her fears and gain wisdom from God to resolve them. Because we couldn't possibly verbalize it without him, you know, helping us out the entire time. I'm glad you finally admitted that out loud. I verbalized it. But luckily for you, Tim, they've given a list of what some of her biggest fears might be. Oh, good. So I can just plug and play and not have to listen to you. Yes, you can bring them up to discuss with her.

Because, you know, she probably won't want to tell you on her own. She can't verbalize it. Can we discuss your fears? Hold on. Let me pull out my prayer journal. I wrote down what they are. These are... Is it next to the reasons why you like me? It's next to the reason that we can bone and not feel guilty. Yeah. Okay. So here are some things that might be some of her biggest fears. That's good. Growing old. Becoming unattractive to her husband.

Well, they tell you that's a problem, so of course it's a problem. Being displaced by another woman. I just love how some of her biggest fears have to be centered around him. Yeah. anyways um poor health failure as a wife and mother husband losing his job insecurity if her husband dies future of the children some of those are fair

But those first three, I just think it's funny that they use these as conversation starters. Like, I just can't imagine you being like, so are you afraid you'll become unattractive to me? Let's talk about that. Can we talk about you feeling like you're unattractive? is that a fear you have like this is literally like conversation starters and it's like you scared you're gonna get ugly is that a fear for you

Do you want to talk about that? And then it specifically says, after listening attentively to her initial response, say this. In addition to that, do you have any other feelings about it?

So it's literally like, I feel like it's teaching them to be like, you'll ask this question, she'll talk a bunch, and then you'll say, do you have any other feelings about it? Yeah. It's not about... starting a genuine conversation yeah it's checking a box uh you hit it on the head yeah like oh i asked her what her fears are so she'll feel like we communicated and she'll she'll follow my leadership yep it's all roads to she'll just keep listening to me

As your wife confides in you, admitting her fears, ask the Lord to give you wisdom to help her resolve each one through Christ. I ask him to give me patience to deal with your baggage. Yeah.

Number six already. We're flying. A wife needs a husband who honors her. Because you can honor your wife in many ways, such as being attentive during conversation. But I thought the last one told me I didn't have to be attentive. I have to do everything around here. Right. That's all. So being attentive during conversation, using good manners, and praising her.

So let's talk about how you can practice good manners. You read that really well. What? One of the things was praising her. You read that really well. I did not pick that up. I was like, what do you mean? She didn't. Okay, so practicing good manners. Here's some things that you could pay attention to. Making her aware of your schedule and priorities. What is that? Okay, anyways. Being punctual.

Refraining from using crude language. So you and I have terrible manners apparently. Personal cleanliness, neatness, and grooming. Lifting heavy objects for her. I'm surprised they didn't say opening jars. Opening jars, yeah. Seating her at the table, putting your dirty laundry in the proper place. The idea that they literally put this on a list is mind-blowing to me.

Next time I'll be like, Tim, your manners, manners. Try rinsing a dish before you put it in the sink. The last one, helping her on and off with her coat. And I'm just going to throw in sweeping up crackers because I feel like that's... I'm just going to let you know when I put my laundry, my dirty laundry in the appropriate bin, I'm honoring myself.

Because I do the laundry. I apologize that I'm not honoring you. I do your laundry sometimes. I don't put away any laundry, but I wash some of your laundry. I get it. Okay, so the next one you can do to show honor. I'm ready. Is to be attentive. What was that? Thank you. Make a commitment to be attentive to your wife. For example, they have to lay it out.

These guys are dumb. When she asks you a question, stop what you're doing, look at her, and answer her. Hold on. Can you repeat that? I need to write this down. But like it says, look at her, answer her questions. And then in parentheses, Tim, in bold, it says, even the little ones. Even her frivolous shit she comes up with.

emphasis on it being trivial and also so much on like little remember like how like they told the wife be be grateful for every little you know thing it's like even her silly little fucking questions what's like all of this is very much like you are an imposition yeah So this is written in a way where it's like, all right, guys, get ready for this. Like, you have to pay your dues. You know what I mean? Listen to her every once in a while. Listen to her rattle on. They love that shit.

They eat that shit up. The hens are going to cluck. Pay attention to them. But it says, communicate your love for her through your tone of voice as well as your facial expression. So they're like, pretend you care. Correct. Yeah.

We're already on number seven. Remember how long it took us to get through seven before we're flying? It's because we already know. It's essentially a retread. We're reading the same shit. It's so little. Yeah, we're reading the same shit, but from a different perspective. See, I don't take it as this. It's different to me.

Okay, so number seven is a wife needs a husband who invests in her life. She needs her husband's support and encouragement to learn new skills and broaden her field of interest within the home. Remember? your wife needs to know that you do not take her for granted and that you are eager to invest in her life spiritually emotionally physically and financially oh can i just write a check and then not have to think about the other stuff

It says, okay, so you can invest in her life by offering support and encouragement. And your wife needs your active leadership in your relationship because she can't do anything without you. We do. So here are some ways that you can support and encourage her. provide opportunities for her to develop her gifts skills and talents okay this may involve opportunities within your family your church or your community not a job that's for damn sure please

Don't be silly. Yes. You know, self-sufficiency is the killer of love. Not wrong. It says, be sensitive to your wife's desire for more training within the home. if she would like to to pursue new areas of service so that's the thing like if you want to learn masonry to put a wall up in the back or what do we You know what? Why don't you learn drywall? That's still within the home. Why don't I send you to a two-day drywall session somewhere?

Then it says, you know, so again, we're still talking about offering support and encouragement. Together, define the responsibilities that each of you has in your family. How is that encouraging me? Here's your fucking to-do list. Like here's what you're in charge of. How is that encouragement?

Like it's such an ass backwards way of them constantly pointing these things out. I'm like, this is, this is none of this is what you're saying. It is none of it. But if they can convince you of that, I'm so when you do get these things, then you're going to eat that shit up. Like, you make a list for me, Tim, of my responsibilities. And I'm like, I'm so encouraged. Last one. No wonder you always get mad when I give you those lists. Yeah, exactly. And this is it. We're done.

The last thing is visualize how you can add new dimensions to her responsibilities so that she can recognize the future value and eternal value of what she is presently doing. So she can do more shit for you.

And that's it. That's the full seven. Oh, man. Isn't that wildly fast compared to before? And that was with us interjecting. But I do have some things to add on to that, though. Okay. So we made it through the seven. but you know i mentioned earlier how the only reason that book was 88 pages is because it has all like the stories and stuff well even though i didn't get to read those specific stories you can still get the vibe based on reviews of it

So now, of course, the IBLP online store does not have a review option. And if it did, I'm sure it would all be glowing reviews from cult members. I feel so encouraged. Yes. But the reviews I'm referring to are from Amazon, who also sells this book because Amazon, you know, people, independent people can sell random shit. So I'm going to read you a few.

of these reviews so full disclosure i end up reading about five reviews um two of them are in in full because they were like really short reviews three of them were really long so i did end up just pulling parts of it But I don't feel like it creates any sort of misrepresentation of it.

You're not taking things out of context. You're just getting rid of fluff. Exactly. Just to cut for time. But I don't feel like I'm just cherry picking in the sense that I'm changing the vibe of the review. Correct. In its entirety, I think you still get the point. all right so first one the title of this review was dangerous and deceptive

This is one of the longer ones, and I cut a shit ton of it. It was very long because they actually really showed, like, they say this. This is what it says in the Bible. You know, they got really specific. It says, although there are good things in this book. Disagree. So this is clearly still a very religious person. It starts with the woman whose husband is cheating on her. The fault, however, is placed on her. This appears to be a theme.

She is faulted for dreaming about Prince Charming when she was young, making a list of qualities she wanted in a husband. I thought they were supposed to make fucking lists. Reading love novels. watching romantic movies, etc., and then marrying someone who matched what she was looking for. This is referred to as idolatry. Even if this were true, the husband is committing the bigger sin. He is committing adultery.

The husband's behavior is his personal choice, yet the wife seems to be made responsible for it, or that is happening as a consequence of her idolatry. There is something very wrong with that. which i feel it goes back to what we talked to and the woman studying the seven basic needs of the husband she had she was in charge of nothing and responsible for everything correct yeah and i feel like that's i feel like that's again it's like so

He cheats on her, and somehow it's still her fault? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, next one. The title of this one cracked me up. It's, I can't swear, so I don't have a title. These type of bass-ackwards, obviously they can't swear, these type of bass-ackwards approach to marriage and life in general belong back in the 1800s. Women are not property. You don't need a man, woman... You don't need a woman's dad's blessing to ask her out and you are not responsible for her. She is not a pet. Next one. Okay.

Torn between dismay and disbelief at how inane and pernicious this is. Ooh, pernicious. Good word. I cut this down a lot because it was really long and very... They sound like that type of person that tries to throw in as many big words as possible. From the term pernicious, that's what I felt. Yeah, so that person is definitely this vibe. But they said, I have never read anything this crack-brained, sexist, and ridiculous as this book.

Yeah. Yeah. that one is a long one i just pulled that next one um is in entirety it's titled women are not property you write as though you think women can't think for themselves which the reason i pulled this is because that's what i kept saying and all this i'm like you act like she cannot make one decision or have a mind of their own. I can't believe how many people you could lead astray with this utter nonsense. Last one. Beware. Hateful and sexist.

This book and the ethics and beliefs behind it really are the very cause of what is wrong with the modern world. Mr. Gothard speaks with self-appointed God-given authority, but his words are filled with hate and ill will. He focuses on...

quotations, problems, which by and large in today's society need no solutions, but will twist words and use misquoted scripture to convince. I like that they said that because that's been a basis of things of like he really does twist a lot of... bible verses correct like to fit with yeah it's like what the fuck are you talking about you know gother's teachings are based on the beliefs of hate control and sexism they are as he would put it snakes in the grass

Please avoid this book, or if you are trapped by the teachings of this man, get help. His teachings are false and escape is possible. Damn. So, clearly, people were like, this is a...

pile of steaming pile of shit which we know but it's just funny to kind of I just thought reading those reviews was interesting damn okay so I think I'm ready for a wind down that one with that snake in the grass was they were coming in hot they were like As you would say, it had some mustard on it. That had a lot of mustard on it, yeah. But then I referenced this to you last week when we were recording. We love mash. Yes.

There was a point where we were doing a rewatch every calendar year. All the way through the series. And that's a lot of episodes. But there's a scene where Frank and Margaret, Frank Burns is like... trying to kiss on Margaret. And she pretty much tells him to leave, Frank. And he looks at her and goes, Avec plaisir, Miss Snake in the Grass.

So that's what went through my head when you read that one. Oh, Frank Burns. Oh, man. All right. Is it time for Whitney's wind down? It's time for the wind down. All right. Are you calmed down enough? Do you need a drink before you? I think I'm okay. All right. I'm not as worked up this time around. You were there in the middle, but I think you calmed down. Yeah. I was way more worked up last time.

Okay, so what I want to do for this wine noun is I really want to take a second to compare the two. So to me, it was just funny how completely different they were, at least from what I expected. Okay.

so i was gearing up for like a bunch of things to have to sift through and it was really kind of nothing like i know we talked for a decent amount of time but comparatively because like last time it was long and that was with me cutting a ton of shit and like i said it was 11 pages this thing was six pages and that was including the reviews right that i put it all into one document so yeah it was far less than i thought and comparing to the previous one under each of the seven needs

You know, there's like different little subtopics. On the one where it was the seven basic needs of the husband, which of course was for the wife to study, each of those had about six to seven subtopics. Okay. Here on this one, which is needs of wife, of course, to be studied by the husband, the most a single topic had was three subtitles. I mean, who has time to go through all those subtitles?

A couple of them only even had one. Yeah. So that alone was like just like the sheer less amount of content. Correct. And to me just the vibe was completely different. I know you said that this one's worse. But for me, the wife, the one where the wife is meeting her husband's need had a very like heavy feeling to it. Very much like the here's all the ways you can fuck everything up and lots of like don't type.

Oh, yeah. So it was a lot heavier to me. And it had a lot more like strong and direct language, such as the, you know, destroying his manliness and killing love with self. sufficiency like you didn't hear that type of strong language in this at all yeah i can't think of any off topic like it just wasn't the same it did it just did not have that same deep heavy vibe of like don't fuck this up

There was no, like, you're gonna fuck it up vibe. It was just like, yeah, she could, you know. Well, I feel like for me, that's what makes it worse. Because it shows the double standard. Like the other one, you assume that, like, religious... religious doctrine and religious like texts are going to be a little bit heavy handed with the I need you to do what I want you to do because it's about control and fear. And I think when you look at that alone, it's not good. Yeah.

But then when you look and you see the opposite side of it, when we already assume that it's going to skew in favor of the man, now to see it, that's what makes this so bad. Yeah. Because how can you look at that? and look at this and be like no it's all it's all just normal like gender role stuff like there is an obvious bias yeah

Very, very obvious. For me, I think that's what makes it worse. Because you go in thinking, okay, I'll... overarching religious doctrine is going to be heavy and then you realize that oh no it's only on her yep so um just point out that there is no mention of his looks anywhere Whereas the women, you know, are told how to look and how it not only represents the husband, but like connects to him and his wants. Yeah. So no mention of that.

The only mention of looks in this is about how women could be insecure about not looking good for him. So that's the mention of looks. She might fear being ugly. And not attractive to you. Are you having bad thoughts about your lazy eye? What lazy eye? Are you fearful of a... That hair growing out of your what? Do you have feelings about that weird thing on your neck? What weird thing on my neck?

um our editor is here by the way yes mildred is mildred is roaming around she was scratching at the door she's back okay so also in the other one where the um the women were constantly being told to be grateful and there's none of that here did you notice like no mention of like and they beat that fucking shit with it to like oh yeah beat it to shit in the last one it was like be grateful Every little crumb. Be grateful. Make sure you're showing gratitude. Make sure you're praising. Be grateful.

In this one, the only time that they talk about praise, it's only in the context of trying to keep her from being insecure. That's when they talk about it. Right. Whereas for the men's needs. In the last one, when we're discussing their needs, there is no discussion of a man being insecure. Correct. trying to keep him now we can read between the lines and this whole thing reeks of insecurity yeah but as far as them actually they never call the man like he might be insecure no mention of it

Because, you know, men don't get insecure. No, not at all. That's a woman thing, you know? They're so emotional. Women, am I right? Tell me about it. So, you know, men can't possibly insecure, even though that whole thing reeks of insecurity. Yep. Another thing that I found particularly interesting was that there is zero emphasis on a woman having alone time with God when it was such a big point of emphasis in the other one.

So now I think it's safe to say that that's because they see the men, the man obviously is like the direct. contact with god and if women are being submissive to him then they're in line with god blah blah blah but i just still find it so interesting that the woman's relationship with god is entirely glossed over

And they just repeatedly talk about her responsibilities. Yeah. But I think it just speaks to how it really is all about submission to her husband and his relationship with God and nothing to do with her own relationship. It's just all about obedience. It's trickle-down economics. I'm the one talking to God. And if you don't dishonor our family, maybe you'll get a little bit of splash damage righteousness. There you go. But you do one wrong thing. Oh, and then it's all over. Yeah.

i know but just as much as they talk about like just in general not even just in these texts but these people talking about like oh having a relationship with god why is it not talked about at all with the women was so emphasized with men yeah i feel like that would like be like even if it was going to be in their bullshit i was expecting it to be like pray to god so you can be a better wife involved there's not even like anything about that it's not about that

um i just felt like it was just different the the women's study on the husband's needs was very like overwhelming in all of the information and very much like get this right or you could fuck it all up you know and this is kind of just like You know, talk to your wife sometimes. Throw her a bone here. Yeah, just like listen, you know. Yeah. Read that list in your prayer journal while you like her.

That helps. And then while she's talking, think about other more important things. And then here's the statement you can use to show support. Yeah, exactly.

She asks her if she's fearful and then say, is there anything else you'd like to say about that? Okay, so I think for me what it just boils down to, though, and what my expectation was, I think that... I thought it would be a lot more disparaging to women in its presentation and wording. Okay. But to me, the other one was so much more directly worse than that. Oh, yeah.

So which made it more interesting to me because the fact that these texts actually specifically say like when it was seven basic needs of a. husband like it says this is for the wife to study only and on this one it was like this is for the husband's use only like it specifically says that so really the one that talks the more direct

very direct shit about women was the one designed to be studied by the woman by women yeah but it's teaching you subserviency yeah it's the or subservience one of those two um Because it's the thing of like, well, this is what you need to follow. So you better get used to us talking to you this way. Because then nothing else will bother you. Because this will all be normal. Like I was prepping myself for like, they're going to say so much.

shit about women and then i was just like oh it's very fast and just like get through the the it was us picking it apart more yeah that really highlighted it then was the content was the actual wording you know what i mean whereas before i felt like the wording itself was like rough yeah i guess i just thought that there would be like more jacking off of the husbands

And more talking down of the women in this one than there ended up being. I don't know. Am I making sense? Yeah. I don't think I would have expected that, but I get what you're saying. But I just felt like... i know but i'm trying to explain in a way you might understand like the way that's tell the like the way in the other one where it says you have different you know you have different

priorities in your husband your husband sees big picture i thought on the men's side it would be like remember your wife can't see big picture you know what i'm saying like i thought that it would take the other stuff and be very like this silly little woman this is what you need to look out for yeah she can't do that like i don't feel like

They're telling the woman what she might do, but they're not really telling the man the same specific things of like, this is what you got to look at. And I think that's what I thought, that it would take that stuff, mirror it on the other side and just talk the same kind of shit.

Yeah. But it's like they couldn't be bothered and they just made it short and they're like, I don't know. And I also feel like that's maybe a little bit too on the nose, a little bit too on the nose to be like, you are a lower class in our community.

Because I feel like the way that it is, it's plausible deniability. Where you can be like, no, this is... based in religion and it's based in this and there's scripture that's being usurped for it and you know what I mean it can still be pushed as this guise of well you know within our community these are just tips we can give to people I feel like if they did

it that way it would be a little bit too much of like you guys suck and you are not a not a contributing member of this community you're too stupid this is what we have to do yeah I feel like the reason why it wasn't that hard was because they wanted to be able to say, well, no, like both books are different because men are from Mars. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So instead it ends up being this very short thing that like barely has, comparatively, doesn't have a lot to it. And the part that's like overwhelmingly... and then beating you over the head with how you need to be grateful like you know just like all just beating over the head with just information period is what the woman's studying yeah and the guys it's like just listen to really i feel like the whole thing is like just talk to her yeah

like I thought there'd be more jacking off of like the you are her like yes it says like she needs a spiritual leader but I thought there would be more specific reference to like remember In accordance to God, you are the this and this and this. They don't even lay it out like that. No. Because you don't need to know. I don't know. It's just interesting. Just not exactly what I thought it would be. Yeah.

I mean, I was relieved it wasn't as long because it didn't make it quite as hard on me. Yeah. Oof. It's not exactly what I expected. So yeah, there you go, folks. Seven basic needs of a wife. Well, now you know how to be either part of this relationship. I cannot wait to find your prayer journal while you're at work. So I can see why you like me. That's my secret. I take my prayer journal with me to work. You got anything else? No. I'm glad we're past the wedding.

yeah you're just like it was like it was like you know i was looking forward to it but now it's like okay we can go to something else now you know yeah yeah i definitely feel like

I'm interested to see what's coming next. I feel like we've been diving deep into a lot of things that... give us like a lens to look at the show through or at least me yeah um a lens to look at the show through so um i feel like that's good um i'm not becoming more accepting of their ideals because i think their ass backwards like that person but bass backwards um sounds like a star wars character i'm bass backwards and this is my ship um no

It's interesting to watch. It's still sad. I think a lot of it makes me sad. Yeah. Because it's like, what... From all sides, what are you potentially missing out on as a person? And I'm not talking about the dope or anything as base level as that, but you're just... you just deny yourself so many things that aren't as bad as you're being told they are. And then when people ask you about it, you get so defensive and uncomfortable because at the end of the day, you're not 100% sure.

there's always that little bit of like, shit, maybe we are wrong. You know what I mean? You think they think that? I think they think they're totally right. But I think that's why they get so defensive. I think they tell themselves that they're right. And God has a plan or whatever aspect you want to ask them about. But the second...

Even the cameramen start digging deeper and asking more questions. They go on the defensive. I think they're defensive because they can't think deeper. They're just parroting what they're told. They don't have any actual feelings. But I don't think it's that they doubt it in any kind of way. We might not be right. I think they just don't know how to defend it. They don't know how to verbalize it. There you go. They don't know how to verbalize it.

so yeah I guess we'll wrap this one up as always we've gotten some new coffee today yes we got some new coffees you guys are so sweet we appreciate it so much thanks for buying us a pickle yes tomorrow By the time you guys hear this, it'll be past it. But tomorrow is Pestinana's anniversary. Anniversary. Pretty good. I did put up tonight.

do we think she'll put a social media post? Because she's been pretty quiet. She's only posted twice, one of them being her birthday slash their engagement anniversary. That's only one of two posts since he's been convicted. So I put up a poll like, do we think she's going to post tomorrow? I think she will. Do you think she will?

I think she'll post something. I don't think it'll be anything juicy. It's just whether she'll post or not. Yeah, I think she'll post something. Okay, yeah, so do I. All right, we're going to wrap it up, as always. You can see things like these polls I'm talking about. On our Instagram, which is digging up the Duggars pod. And you feel free to shoot us an email over at digging up the Duggars at Gmail. And if you have any questions about Mildred, our editor.

She was helping Whitney with the deep dive again. So if you have any questions or comments for her, let us know. Yeah. She's happy. She's looking at us right now. She is happy to answer questions. All right, guys. See you next week. All right. Bye.