Episode 18 - God's Guide to Fragile Masculinity

Mother is believing. At least I have a husband, you know. Does anybody here believe it? We are from Arkansas, no?

Okay, so we're back with season two. We took two weeks off in between. Did you miss it? Honestly, the first week it was kind of nice not... to have to do it and then the second week i was like man i could go back the the first week it was because we recorded that last one so late that like the turnaround to another one would have been super fast i was like oh i'm glad we don't have it this week yeah but yeah um like i felt like after two weeks i'm like okay i can do it and then uh yeah

So we're back with still going to call it episode 18. I'm still going to keep it in numerical order. What do you think? I think so. Even though we're in season two. So I'm still calling it episode 18. So this makes it the Jordan. episode who we just watched in the last you know the last at the end of season one uh her being born i legitimately was like they have a kid named jordan yeah

You just watched her being born. She's Jordan Grace Micaiah, remember? I was ready for Juicy Fruit or Jamocha. You're like, what happened to Jamocha? Yeah. So this episode is, oh, again, funny, just that it's the 18th child, episode 18. Just want to point that out. So this episode is called Once a Bride, Always a Dugger.

And it premiered on January 25th of 2009. So the episode starts off with us having to see Pess Ugly Mug. A lot. A lot. And this is really the first time we've seen him in a while. Towards the end of last season, he wasn't a big part after the engagement. After the bringing Anna back, we didn't really see a whole lot of him. It was nice. Right. But as you can imagine, we're getting into wedding stuff, so he's going to be front and center for a while.

So jarring, but it's to break us in. Yeah. So it starts with him talking, and he's saying how it's one month before the wedding. And he and the four oldest Duggar sisters are going with him. And they're heading down to Florida to work on wedding preparations with the Kellers. It's an 18-hour drive. And there's just like, you know, a little...

Little bit of scenes of them in the car real quick. Did you notice Josh is drinking Mountain Dew? No. He just 100% to me looks like a Mountain Dew drinker, doesn't he? What does that mean? I like Mountain Dew. I don't know how I feel about that. He just gives me Mountain Dew vibes. And Jana is eating a giant pickle in the front seat. She was like, she was working that pickle. She liked that pickle. Let's be real. Yeah. It made me uncomfortable. So just had to throw that in there.

But Pest talks about how they're there only for a limited time. And so they have to prioritize because he needs to get back to work. And he specifically says, and that the girls have to. That they don't actually get away from home very often, which we know why. Because they're the moms. Yeah, we know. And then it's funny because they're at the Kellers by this point. And the producer asked Jill.

If you had to guess what was happening back at the house right now, what would you say if you could put it in one word? And Jill's like, hmm, hectic? Yeah. And then, of course, it cuts to. All the crying kids running around the tater tot mansion and like chaos, you know, everywhere. And obviously it was cut in a way to make it look a lot worse than it actually was. But in the cold open.

they had lego hair make a statement where he was like um well it is something like uh well it is really difficult without the girls here to help well i have the whole quote you want to hear the whole thing yeah they're not they're helping Go ahead.

He says, this kind of reminds me of going back in time, back when we had a whole bunch of little ones and it was just Michelle and I taking care of all of them, as it should be. And it's been pretty difficult this week without the older girls and Josh to help us. Yeah.

Help. Help. Yeah, I think you're the help. I know, right? And as he's saying that the kids are crawling all over him and stuff like that. That's the most he's seen his children in a long time. For real. This reminds me of when we just had five.

so then it flashes back to pest saying again how they are there for a limited time and he says end quote my mom does need the girls back home so i just think it's funny there's so much emphasis on like we we can't be here long because mom and dad need the girls yeah not even trying to hide it again they think that there's no like they just say this shit out loud it never ceases to amaze me

There was a ginger comment when they were at the Keller's house where she looked at that sex pest and was like, this is the only time I get to talk to Anna because you're always around her. Oh, it was actually Jessa.

was it that was jessa and then um because he's out in a little trailer and so she was saying that like they're inside with her and that's like the only alone time they get with her because they're just always all over each other yeah as much as they can be yep and then I also noticed when they were getting things out of the vehicle, they pulled out a Costco gallon-sized jar.

of pickles and it only had two of them or one of them floating yeah they they wrecked that jar on that 18 hour drive oh my god five adults one jar of pickles oh it's like two girls one cup five adults one five adults one jar of pickles

so then there's a montage of scenes of them unloading like you were just talking about and kind of like all laughing and hanging out and stuff and then we are introduced to the pillowcase So Josh, like I kind of mentioned, is sleeping in on the Keller property, but in a camper and it shows.

Anna's sister, Susanna, like moving blankets and stuff on that bed that he is sleeping in. And then the pillow has this giant photo of Josh and Anna in their matching clothes, the brown and white striped shirts. And the producer says, can you show us that pillow? And Susanna just kind of explains that Anna got it as a gift for Josh. Yeah.

Thank you for not ever getting me a pillowcase with your face on it. And it has nothing to do with you. You are ruining Christmas. Anniversary gift. Then the producer asked Jessa.

jessa do you think that's a little over the top and jessa just says what and then looks over at it and then the scene cuts away so they don't show an answer which depending on what she said or they're just doing that to be funny but it's just kind of it's like what and then she like looks at it i specifically wrote down that that pillowcase is an emo high school level tragedy oh man you ruined that gift idea i mean i will say that it was very well printed

Like the picture had a lot of picture quality to it in the actual printing of it onto the pillowcase. So I will say that like it... When he drools on it, does it transfer? Do you see the next morning, does he have a brown and white striped polo on the side of his cheek?

Okay, so the next scene, they go to get their marriage license, and there's really not much to report. I don't really have much to say about that. Do you? No. It's nothing interesting. No. So then after that, immediately it goes to them taking engagement photos, which are taken by Jessa. And they are yet again in the brown and white polos. Nick.

So it must be like their like special event uniform. Kind of like how the older Doug girls all wear the pink and white ones. That's the same thing that Anna and Ma Keller were wearing at the engagement. Remember I said I noticed every time they go somewhere. The girls are wearing those. So it's like, I think they come up with these. This is Pess and Anna's event outfit. So the picture taking is pretty much as awkward as you'd imagine.

lots of intense hand clasping not even just holding like clasping i think there's a difference between the two and then lots of weird poses there was there's one in particular did you take notice of the one where anna's sitting on the ground yes

And then he's... He's just like... kind of hunched over her but like his legs are really wide wide spread apart so they're like a v right and he's bent over at the waist and he's leaning forward to like and with her arms up to like hold each other's it's the stupidest thing i've ever seen in my life Yeah. There wasn't any... I mean, I could have called this one. There wasn't any natural poses. I always feel like... Well, when you can't be near each other. Yeah, that's true. But...

They're in a garden-ish looking thing that has a fountain and stuff. But maybe they took other pictures. But they can't do the normal things that you would see. more like facing each other like you know what i mean like they can't do those things they have to hold each other's hands and have distance between them so it's completely uncomfortable yeah

So while Jess is taking pictures, the three other Doug girls and then Susanna are talking about how they're trying to plan a surprise dinner out for Josh and Anna. And Jana says... It's easier to plan it and surprise them because they aren't thinking right now. And she does like the crazy motion, like at the head with the pointer finger, you know, like circular motion. So we can do surprises easier because they're just thinking about each other.

That's kind of a lead into a later scene. So then the very next one is just all the girls working on sewing the bridesmaids dresses. And there's just kind of a funny scene where... Susanna Keller, she seems seemingly uninterested, right? She's the ginger of the group. Yeah, she is totally the ginger sister of the Kellers. And she's just kind of slowly cutting fabric. And she says, hopefully not everyone is working as hard as...

me because we'll never finish. I think this is the point where we kind of realized that Susanna is almost like the ginger sister. um she has a little bit more personality and a little spark she even kind of just like looks at the camera like sometimes and makes like kind of faces and kind of like yeah and she's got you know just more expression which is funny because come to find out you know later on she becomes like the black sheep of the family so makes sense

Yeah, so you just kind of see her personality coming through. So then the producer, they asked Ma and Pa Keller, how stressful is preparing for a wedding? And it was at this point that I was really hopeful that... maybe we'd get to hear Ma speak. Because they seem like they're kind of directing it at her a little bit more. But no. She laughs and she looks at Paul Keller and says nothing and that's it. I feel like she's a lot more creepy in this episode than she was the last time

I think we just see it a little bit more. It's the same level of creep. You just are like, it's not getting any better. You thought that, I think before you kind of pass it off of like, okay, it's their first time on camera. Right. And then now you're like, nope, she just can't. She just can't. Like. She just has that weird, like, bemused, I'm just trying to be pleasant, like, but her eyes are way too open, like, look on her face.

And then she has, because she's smiling with her teeth like really hard. Through her big 80s thick glasses. Right. It just makes it worse because you're like, is there anything going on in there? Come on. Come on, Ma. And once again, it's that and this is not making fun of like foreign language speakers or in any direction at all. But like if you speak to somebody who doesn't really speak a native language.

and they have somebody with them that speaks it better, when you ask them a question, they'll kind of just look at you disarmingly, but then they'll look at the other person to be like, can you help me? Like that's what that reminds me of. Like Ma needs Pa's help all the time. She can't answer a question. She has to look at him and then that's it. She has an answer. Yeah.

So this is all kind of in the scene of them with the dresses. And I just want to point out that to end out this scene, there's this funny sort of moment that kind of reminds me of old school MTV Cribs.

Okay. Where Anna tells the cameras that you have to go now because... the dresses we don't want you to see the dresses before the wedding and she even does the corny like puts her hand over the camera moves it down it just so reminds me of like old school like the rapper that's got like the girls in the background like in the

bikinis and like they've slowed down the footage so they're like frolicking slowly and then he's like you have to go now like doesn't it just like give you those like yeah it's weird those cribs vibes like and you gotta go so the next scene um

Apparently Anna wasn't feeling well after all those festivities. And so she didn't want to go to dinner that they were setting up. So it ends up being Josh and the sisters at a nicer for them. Italian restaurant. I mean, it's no Gator Landing, let me tell you. Doesn't feel nearly as special when you don't have the beer keg guy going through the dining room. So it's no gator landing. But, you know, it's nice. Josh makes a point about how it's got real glasses.

linens and things yeah but on a more serious note i gotta say it is very odd to see him at dinner with all the girls he abused alone because you're not used to seeing them alone for the most part right yeah that is weird So swap out Jana for joy. Jana wasn't a victim, but otherwise he's sitting there having a fucking dinner before he gets married is like all my victims. It's just odd. Once you kind of really stop and think about it.

But I also just have to point out the fact that Pest says, did you notice how he says Italian? Yes. Which of course he fucking would. And I just... Another trash human being in my life, trash, garbage human being in my life also used to say Italian, but they're from North Dakota. So it would say, what about Italian food?

And so I was like, is it just like a thing that trash people say Italian? I need some sort of good hearted person who says Italian to come forward so I can maybe switch my views. But as of right now, if you say Italian, you might be trash. Okay. So looking at this menu, they're kind of on the struggle bus, even with words like rollatini. Yeah. Rollatini was a hard one for them. Yep.

It is then, though, that we are introduced to the server, Mr. Jeffrey Knight himself. My favorite Dugger. With the J and everything. The title that they give him on the screen is waiter and tantric dancer, which you will hear why in a second. Yeah. So.

Pest describes Jeffrey as eccentric and had some interesting stories that made me wish I wasn't at the restaurant at that time. Yep. And then Jeffrey, I don't know, the vibe I get is like... theater kid working his way through college and he saw a camera and he sees the opportunity 100 i mean if that's not his story i apologize but that's the vibe it gives off because he wasn't doing anything

He was playing everything very deadpan. Oh, yes. So it feels like he was on because he knew the camera was there. Yeah. You know. So Jeffrey says, for the most part, customers do come back. They tend to sit in different sections than the night when I was serving them.

Then he also says, I like to talk to my customers and become a part of the family. But it seems with this family, they're a little standoffish. I think just because their family is already big. So I don't think I fit on the bus in their way. It's unfortunate because I really like bus seating. And he says it totally straight faced. And then Josh just says that he thinks he has a really good, he's a good actor. And that he has everything down to convince them.

that he was loony um so the waiter says he hears that he's getting married and pest is like telling him about how it's a month away and then jeffrey says wow Well, I'd love to join you girls and you as well to your wedding. I'll actually be in the area so I can stop by and make an appearance if you'd like.

He also says, I work here at the restaurant, but I'm a part-time musician. So I do a lot of tantric music and moves and everything. And I have a lot of skills. So I could stop by if you want and do some sort of special for your wedding. And then then it goes to like a talking head with Jeffrey, like outside, like to the camera. So like that was to Josh. Yeah. Now to the camera, he says, I'll be dancing some sort of some dancing, probably, you know.

wearing some sort of leotard possibly pastel colored which works best for my figure and he says if you see me there i'll be the one moving tantrically i really hope he's at the wedding Okay, so that is it for Jeffrey, unfortunately. Oh, no, they pop in with him later, but they're leaving the restaurant at this point.

So the next scene, they're going to the church that the wedding is going to be held at. And what do you fucking know, you guys? Ma Keller talks. It's a miracle. Still with the creepy look in her eyes, but yes, she talks. Fucking miracle.

she just talks about how the people at the church have been friends for years and the pastor has given them a lot of wise counsel and so the church ends up they're like providing all the decorations and food as a gift to them and so like they're looking at like they have it all laid out everywhere like what do you like as a centerpiece they have them looking through books to pick out a wedding cake and people are volunteering to bake the cakes like people are doing a lot of it for them

Yeah. And so this is where the wow segment commences. It's just them awkwardly clasping hands, walking around and wow, wow, wow. This segment was sponsored by Owen Wilson. And our friend It's Roused Hour has her wow segment that I'll definitely be sharing into the highlights for this episode because it's perfect. But so. Wow. Wow. Wow.

so there's just more talk of all the help that they're getting to and saving money buying things in bulk i mean but really what it comes down to is the fact that uh people are doing a shit ton of this shit for free for them oh yeah so it's like let's be real like josh is trying to be like my mom bought flowers and it's like no people

are doing everything for fucking free the things that matter cost wise are being taken care of being done for free and then there's like a little pop-up on the screen that says that josh and anna spent 60 hours preparing for their wedding which let's be real that's fucking nothing Yeah. I spend 12 to 20 fucking hours a week on one episode of this podcast and you're going to sit here and act like 60 hours on your fucking wedding is like something like, oh my God, 60 hours. Right. Stupid.

So then there's a nauseating scene where Anna says that she's having a hard time thinking or focusing on anything besides Josh. Gross. So she says her mom is half her brain and then Jill is the other half. I mean, can you imagine this girl? This poor girl thinks that Josh is like a real prize.

Poor thing. She must really not have a fucking brain. See, you really don't have your brain. It all makes sense. So then the producer asked Josh and Anna how they're doing with the abstaining part of all of this. And Josh says... Even in marriage, you have to have self-control. It's not like you hit marriage and it's a free game. No. I've seen people who have hit it and it doesn't work. What does that mean? Hit it? He said hit it, right?

who have hit it and it doesn't work. You have to develop self-control so it's a quality that is learned and that you have to build into your life. Oof. So what better time to do that than now? Oof. You know, there's just nothing I fucking love more on this planet than hearing Josh Tugger, you know, mansplain to a fucking audience about self-control. Nothing I love more.

disgusting loves it so then there's actually another funny scene this is where they flip back to our homie jeffrey clearly they had been telling them like oh they're saving themselves like that type of thing right and he says i think that's kind of weak I think he should be already past that point. I've already had my first kiss a week and a half ago. Yep. So now that is our final Jeffrey scene. Hopefully not final final.

I'm not going to ask you because I don't want you to tell me the truth. I really hope he's at the wedding. No comment. Don't break my heart. I'm not even looking at you. Let me live the next week with my dream alive. Dreaming of Jeffrey. My favorite Duggar. Jeffrey Knight Duggar.

So the final scene is that they're back from their 10 days in Florida. And now the whole family is packing up the bus to head to Florida for the wedding.

So that's kind of it. So they don't even really show them going home. All of a sudden they're there. They've probably been home for a little bit because I don't imagine that they got back. And I don't think they're going to Florida for three weeks before the wedding. Right. So, but yeah, that's kind of the end of the episode. Do you have anything else to add on that?

At one point, Lego Hair was like, we almost forgot the wedding ring. Yeah. Because of Jish. Jish. Jish. Jish. Jish got her the ring. And then. Gave it to Michelle to put in her jewelry box for safekeeping. Yeah, like the wedding band. Yeah, and then... It was obviously when they were leaving or something that Jim Bob was like, we almost forgot the wedding ring. Because Michelle was like, sure, he took it, I'm sure. And then he called and he didn't. So we're bringing the ring. Yeah. Yeah. So.

The only thing that I thought of was they showed two of the girls at the piano as they were packing to drive to the wedding. Yes. And the music that was playing was ragtime. And in my head, I was like, I don't think they're the ones playing the ragtime music. And if they are, I don't know if that's safe. Like, brains might have been soft-boiled with those rhythms. Maybe not a full hard-boil, but like a good soft, you know. Like a soft poach. Yeah, there you go.

Lightly poaching their brain is better than hard boiling it. You know, you got to look at it in those terms. There's still a little runny yolk in there. Yeah. All right. So that sums up the episode. I think Jeffrey Knight was definitely the highlight. Had we not focused on me like giving word for word for what he said, I think this would have gone a lot faster. But I made sure you guys heard every word out of Jeffrey Knight's mouth.

He was sassy theater kid to the T. Yep. We like him. But I hope he makes money as a server. I hope eventually he got a big break to be on like a commercial or something. Right. He's definitely my favorite Duggar with a very close second going to Jabaloon Man. You know, I tried to look up.

hit him up and there's just a lot of jeffrey knights in the world and i was like oh i don't have the energy for this right now my deep dive was enough i'm like i do not have time for this we'll save this for another time okay Future guest of the pod. Right? Somebody call Jeffrey. Does anybody know Jeffrey? Does anybody know Jeffrey? Have you seen a man in a pastel leotard in the past 10 years? Oh, man.

All right, we will take a tiny break and we'll be back with the deep dive. So today's deep dive is inspired by the fact that... anna and pest are preparing for their nuptials and it is based off of the seven basic needs of a husband Of course, as defined by IBLP, a fucking patriarchal cult. So just buckle up. Can you just imagine what you're in for? Just think. Just try to mentally prepare yourself. It's bad.

It's probably going to be a lot of eye rolling, a good amount of misogyny. Infuriating. Yep. Yep. So for all this, I will be referencing an actual pamphlet. You know, they love a fucking pamphlet. A sucker for a good leaflet. Yes. So this leaflet goes by that actual name, The Seven Basic Needs of a Husband. You can purchase it for $2 on the IBLP website if you're interested, Tim.

did you no i luckily found a pdf of it somewhere thank god i was like i don't want to buy this shit and then they mail it to you i thought i was gonna get like a like if i had to copy i was like this isn't even a fucking digital copy so it's good thing i found a um I found it. So along with that, I'm also going to be cross-referencing it with an article called How Can I Meet My Husband's Basic Needs? How to Be a Godly Wife. So this is all pulled from there.

So the first thing I'm going to do is actually just tell you the seven basic needs real quick, and then we will dive into each of them more. Okay. Okay, so number one. A man needs a wife who is loyal and supportive. Number two, a man needs a wife who honors his leadership. Three, a man needs a wife who develops inward and outward beauty. So no uggos allowed, I guess. Four, a man needs a wife who will make appeals, not demands. Funny, Josh knows a lot about appeals right now. A little ironic.

He's the one making appeals. Five, a man needs a wife who understands his need for time alone with God. Six, a man needs a grateful wife. And number seven, a man needs a wife who will be praised by others. Weird. So, I mean, you can just kind of stop there and you can already get the idea, right? The gist of how bad this is probably going to be.

but uh spoiler alert it gets much much worse so um so one thing i just wanted to point out so with these two references that i mentioned one that that seven basic needs it's really just Kind of like the definitions and very basic, concise bullet points. And then the other one, the how to be a godly wife one, go figure, is kind of a how-to guide for the wife. So what I did is, and that one has like a bit more explanation. So I'm kind of interweaving the two.

So I was cross-referencing, and then they're all kind of like synced up together, but everything I'm saying is between these two different things. Okay. Also understand that I will be doing a fair amount of... verbatim reading things for verbatim but that is because the wording of it is just so fucking preposterous that paraphrasing is not doing it justice okay so it's like some shit i mean i just had to read it

all right so are you ready to get started on this shit are you ready to have high blood pressure for the next half hour yeah i'm yeah i'm pretty it makes me mad it really does okay so number one

a man needs a wife who is loyal and supportive that would make me mad too it says she needs to respect him as a man a man wants to prove his manliness But a wife can destroy her husband's manualness. His manualness. Like him knowing how to work, occupy things. Exactly. Okay. But, I mean. We can just, you know, go out there and destroy your manliness. So how can she do that, right? Well, she can destroy his manliness by expecting him to know what protection she needs.

Often a wife assumes that her husband knows what protection she needs. However, most men need direction. Tell him what he can do to provide protection for you physically, spiritually, mentally, and emotionally. In the entire thing. Communication a little bit, right? It's all downhill from here. Yeah, because I was going to say, that one's not... No. The verbiage is still very misogynistic, but...

Everybody needs to know what success looks like. Yeah. So the basis of it is communication. Tell them what you need. Yeah. Tell me what success looks like. So I feel like you read that as point one. You're like, this isn't going to be bad. Nope.

And it's all downhill from here. Okay. So the next one, you know, she just crushes his manhood by being financially independent. Oh my. Tim, did you know love is killed by self-sufficiency? Apparently. And... They just come right out and say it. Ready? Whoever controls the money controls the relationship. Okay. Yep. Yep. They just come right out and say it. Wow. And it says, don't undermine your husband's leadership. A foolish wife.

can either unknowingly or deliberately crush her husband's spirit by making foolish choices. If you seek to be financially independent, your self-sufficiency can crush his spirit.

god gave your husband the responsibility to provide for his family a wise wife will trust god to provide for her family's needs through her husband what was it that we were talking about earlier uh that you spent four dollars on oh i don't remember we were talking about something her being at like the thrift store and she bought something decor wise and it was like four dollars And I remember looking at her and going, why are you destroying our financial freedom with your frivolous $4? Yeah.

So they tell the wife that she needs to center her work and her ministry in the home. So no working for you. No. Yeah. Don't even go outside. Yeah. No, I mean, crushing your ministry is not out there. What do you have to do out there? Yeah. Nothing.

Getting the mail. Get inside. I didn't know they could do laundry outside. So another way, you know, continuing on crushing manliness is by having loyalty to outside leadership. This includes not only pastors and church leaders, but also men and women Bible teachers and relative and friends. Ask your husband for all of your spiritual questions. Okay.

Seek your husband's advice first. A wife should demonstrate. This is in bold, okay? Demonstrate loyalty is in bold. A wife should demonstrate loyalty to her husband's wishes, goals, and standards. Therefore, when a need arises, you should seek your husband's guidance and counsel first, especially in regards to family issues, rather than seeking advice from other family member or friends. Don't talk to anybody else. I'm it. No, don't air that laundry. Doesn't sound good. Okay.

Another is by resisting his physical affection. God grants spouses full access to each other's bodies for sexual gratification. Then it gives the Bible verse. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence and likewise also the wife unto the husband. I hate this. This is what the part I hate the most. The wife hath not power over her own body and but the husband and likewise also the husband hath not power over his own body but the wife. Defraud ye not one another.

so he you don't have power he his body is yours or whatever vice versa it's like it's not yours it's his and it's not his it's yours yeah hate that shit Then it says resistance or indifference to your husband's need for physical intimacy is the unspoken crushing of his spirit. Crushing it like ice. Oh, yeah. So then last one. Is it this last one? Yes. The last one under this one of the crushing the manliness. Just crush them a little more by taking matters into your own hands. Oh.

A wife is never supposed to take over. She may avoid temporary consequences but cause ultimate destruction. Wow, that's dramatic. So in response to pressures that you might feel within the family or marital relationships, a foolish wife will take matters into her own hands. When you intrude in one area of responsibility, even if the...

The motive is good. Your husband will most likely surrender to other responsibilities as well. So I take that as if you take over in one thing, he's going to be like, well, why am I doing any, you know, you need to give him all of the power. Because then he'll just surrender his other responsibilities. Right. Well, now you're doing that. I guess I won't do anything. It really gets...

Speaks very detailed about how you are not to become your husband's conscience. That it is God's job to convict your husband, not yours. Except in Anna's case, a federal judge convicted her husband. I was going to say that's rough. Still not your job, Anna, I guess. It says instead you should wisely appeal wrong decisions, then give him room to fail. Be loyal, faithful, and enduring.

Trust in God to work everything together for good. So just let him fuck over your entire family. It's fine. It's his fuck up. was it giving up a job to do prison ministry yeah and yeah well i i know i've talked about this before but a friend i had were you know when she got married and her parents like her mom was like

very soon after getting married how are you doing submitting to his lead his leadership and she he was gonna go make this giant purchase that she thought was a bad idea and she was like it's a bad idea and her mom was like but that's his fault that's his bad decision to make and she's like well no it affects both of us

it goes this is that exact same thinking nope it's his it's his it's his failure but it involves me you fucking asshole like i'm supposed to just shut up and sit there and take it when he's fucking over our entire family And that's not even coming from like hardcore culty religion. This is Fundy Light. That's coming from like plain vanilla. Fundy Light. Like Christian. That's it. Yeah. You know.

Okay, so now we're into the second of the basic needs and is a man needs a wife who honors his leadership. She needs to accept him as his leader and believe in his God-given responsibilities. because submission to your husband is a reflection of your faith in god so that's how they tie it in that's how they get you if you don't yeah it's like oh shit then i'm not showing god that i have like

How fucked up. And then if something doesn't happen or if somebody separates, it's like it's not your fault. Your wife was just not faithful enough. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And then they give the example of how Abraham didn't protect his wife, Sarah, but that yet she still obeyed him. And that... god like she trusted god to meet her needs through her authority and that god worked supernaturally on sarah's behalf to protect her from harm so it's like see your husband can be a total fuck up but as long as you're doing it ultimately god has your back right

So they say. So then it gets into like, okay, so what are the basic needs of a leader? Well, apparently he needs reassurance that his authority comes from God. Because, you know, husbands are commanded to govern their wives, they say. And wives are commanded to submit to their husbands. Gives all these kinds of scriptures, of course. And it says that scripture instructs wives to reverence their husband.

to their husband which means to respect divert defer to honor esteem appreciate adore admire praise be devoted to deeply i mean it goes on it's ridiculous everything they're everything yeah Yeah, it all sounds so bad. And then it says to honor your husband's God-given authority. So it's talking about how when you may see weakness in your husband, it might get hard for you to reverence him.

But God requires every wife to reverence her husband because of God's given position of authority as her husband. The Lord will direct life through your husband's leadership and protection. As you reverence your husband voluntarily and sincerely and adore and be devoted to him, God will bless you. And then it literally says, that is the plan and it works.

Isn't that just like, it's like ending it in a way that's like, it works. Shut up. Yeah. Don't question it. That's the plan. Okay. Got it. Moving on. So.

They're just telling you to make sure that you're always reassuring your husband that he is your God-given leader. Of course. And that as a leader, though, he needs confidence that God is working through him. Because God is working through your husband and all of his decisions, whether they're good or bad. It literally says whether they are good or bad decisions. Anna. Anna.

but you know the good thing you know if he makes a bad decision you know there's always a positive spin right so if your husband is making shit decisions you know the upside of all that is It said it's giving you the opportunity to grow in your godly characters. You can grow in your faith, patience, and forgiveness.

So make sure you just reassure your husband that you have confidence in him and tell him that God is working in her life through his leadership. Correct. Because she couldn't have God any other way. No. So yeah, when your husband makes a bad decision, it says explain how God is using it to benefit your spiritual life. So yeah, you fucked us over. But the good news is I'm growing in my patience. I'm growing in my forgiveness.

I'm growing my patience. You're going to prison. The next one is, he needs your loyalty when mistakes are made and pressures increase. Word for word says, believe in your husband no matter what. I just can't take this like absolute shit. Yeah. Nothing is absolute. It's insanity. So it says loyalty can be. demonstrated only in adversity. A husband needs to know his wife.

is committed to him no matter what and that she will look to him first for counsel and direction and this is now the second time that they emphasize this says do not ask others for counsel without his permission yep so they're beating you over the fucking head with like don't talk to other people when you get a shitty husband saying something about it to anybody else is only going to be bad for you

And doesn't it all make more sense with like the like with Pa Keller saying don't say anything to anybody when she said that she was interested in Josh. It's a whole thing of it's all secrecy. It's keep everything close. Do not talk about your feelings. Smile through it.

it all sit down shut up if he fucks up oh well like don't you feel that the end game because it's all about the end like for me i've been thinking about like at work what people's motivations are Like, what are you trying to get out of this email or this conversation or, you know? And you would assume that the end game there would be finding a partner that you can function with well.

But that's not the end game here. It doesn't matter. The end game is having kids. So you can have another stream of revenue when they get older. And have more in God's army. The next one. Ready? A leader needs your admiration. And it specifically mentions, it's so fucking weird. Let your husband hear you praise him to others.

yeah everything about that's weird and then um it just talks more about his need for praise and then it listed a bunch of ideas for praise you can get like this long ass list go ahead The theme of all of this is like God's guide to fragile masculinity. It is. Literally. That's what this is. It totally is. Yeah. Oh, my God. Perfectly said. And so.

It was a really long list, so I just picked out some of my favorites, okay? So if you need ideas for praise. Hard worker. I think you should be writing these down. Thank you. I have these in my notes right here. See, I'm looking at them. Okay, perfect. I have them.

Keep them in mind. I need praise. So it's funny because it says hard worker, but you always hear Anna. You'll notice going forward after they're married. She's always like, he's a diligent worker. It's diligent. She's like, he's a... Hold on. Line. And then they give her a list of the ways to praise him. So it's hard worker, generous, spiritual alertness, patient, you know, maybe his wisdom, his modesty.

Goldfish sweeper. A good manager. Deck builder. Exactly. The list goes fucking on. You know what? She was like, you know, these aren't good enough. He sweeps up crackers. She's like, it doesn't matter. Oh, the last one I wrote down. Not deceived by wine. What's so funny to me is it's not just like, hey, you know.

here's a good idea but it's like literally like we have to we're gonna walk you through it here's some things you could say that'll be praised you know it's it's a true do people like to hear praise absolutely fucking true and but like i've said a million times probably to this point they say things that have a nugget of truth

truth and then they always turn it over into fucking crazyville like it goes beyond anything like true praise is is a nice thing for humans but it's like oh come up with something to say to him because i'm being told i have to praise him

And being told that if you had a reason not to, even if it's valid and even if it's his fault, don't talk to anybody about it. Don't think about it. Let it happen. Get over it. Yep. Yep. It's insane. So the next one is that he needs patience during times of pressure. So, oh, oh, get so mad.

realize that your husband's perspective is different than yours. A man's goals often involve long range achievement. Therefore, a man is usually more willing to like sacrifice in the short term is what they're getting at. and sacrifice convenience to meet a bigger, more important long-term goal, right? But, you know, us little old wives, our perspective usually centers on short-term goals associated with...

our responsibilities in the home. During times of pressure, a wife should keep the big picture in mind and accept difficult situations from God without giving him a deadline to remove them. So it's just like us dumb little women couldn't possibly look at a big picture. Correct. We can't possibly look outside ourselves and our stuff in the home.

we just need a man to lead us in the big picture you know what this reminds me of there's an early early on episode of roseanne where they bet dan and his buddy that they can't fix. They were going to do some maintenance on the engine.

And Roseanne was like, you're going to turn this into a reason just to sit outside and drink beer all day. And they're like, no, no, no, we're totally going to get it done before the end of the day. So all day they're kind of interacting with each other of like, did you get it done? Are you working on it? The ladies go to the mall and come back. And there's a point where Dan's friend or whoever...

Makes a comment about Roseanne not understanding. She couldn't even come over here and do this. And she was like, you're right. My little female mind can't understand the complexities of a combustion engine. I love that part. And she's like, you're right. My little female. Yeah, it's like we're just too fucking. We're simpletons. We couldn't possibly understand. I'm glad you finally admitted it. God, you know, you've been waiting for that for 11 years. Have you been reading my diary?

Okay, so the next one is he also needs your enthusiasm for his achievements. It tells you... to be enthusiastic about your husband's achievements and sharing his excitement is more important than sharing the work. Your husband needs and wants your faithful, loyal, and enthusiastic support. And I don't know. It's just kind of like a side story. And I feel like when I read this, it kind of just made me think of a story that laughed. Okay. So two jobs ago, a job that I was at for seven.

for like seven years um i felt like i was that meme where it's like jobs are funny because you're in your 20s and your best friend's in her 50s and you're like where's susan today yeah i had one of those friends she cracked me up because um I remember her telling me a story about how her ex-husband was retiling their bathroom and he kept pulling her in.

to like look at stuff and she's like yep yep good job and like she's like i'm trying to be enthusiastic and that's kind of what this made me reminded me of it she's like i'm trying to act like i give a shit and she's like he kept pulling me and she's like finally i looked at him and i said

look, I can either come in here every five minutes and pretend to give a shit about the cut you made and how well it's laying or whatever. She's like, or you can get a blow job at the end of the night. She's like, but you are not getting both. Make your choice. Well, that's why I don't show you anything that I accomplish. I'm hoping for the latter. So I just think it's funny. It's like your enthusiasm. It's like.

make sure you show enthusiasm for its work it's like god how exhausting every little fucking thing you're supposed to be like good job okay so the next one oh god are you ready for this he needs your attentiveness he needs your attentiveness when he is talking so word for word Look at your husband admiringly when he talks to others. It inspires their respect.

And so to me, this is fucking wild because we've all seen it happen. We're just talking about Ma Keller. We see it in all of them. But I guess in my head, I kind of always assumed it was a learned behavior. They watched their mothers admiringly gaze at their husband. I didn't.

realize it is literally taught to them black and white on paper yeah they're being told to do it isn't that crazy because you saw it when uh lego hair and baby canon were in the were in the birthing class yeah every time he would say anything she would just be like looking at him yep exactly and they all fucking do it even the girls later on with their husbands yeah but it's they're actually taught it it's insane

I'm actually a comic book collector and I'm going to float the idea out there for a new duo comic Lego hair and baby cannon. There you go. Make it happen. Yeah. Issue one coming summer of 2023.

good we need a year um okay so that finished that's finishing up number two so now we're heading to number three and number three gets real bad okay that was barely number two that was barely number two i'm sorry this might be a long episode you guys and you guys have no idea i cut so much fat

But I left the things that I felt were still worth talking about. She left the things that made her the most mad. Hopefully you haven't listened to me like that wasn't worth it. Because I really tried to cut down. Okay, so number three is a man needs a wife who will continue to develop. Inward and outward beauty. Then it says every woman wants to be the wife of her husband's dreams. Duh. Don't we all?

And then it says, how can you become more of the wife of your husband's dreams? Well, they're going to help you along. They got some ideas here, right? So the first, there's this whole thing about hair.

Oh my god. Hair is the symbol of being under authority. So hair is... a basis for spiritual protection it is a woman's glory like you know what we've heard before and the hairstyle must reflect the husband's wishes and it gives this whole i mean it was the longest list i've ever seen i cannot believe they came up with so much shit about hair it blows my mind i whittled it down to like six and it's what hair is like representing oh god

femininity versus masculinity, neatness versus carelessness, submission versus pride, Out of hair? Softness versus hardness? I beg to differ. I see a lot of gel in those curly, crunchy curls. Beg to differ. Obedience versus defiance.

so it's just funny because if you take it back to the girls when they were getting their hair permed and they said that they kept their hair long well that was when jill was a giant dweeb and was like because you like because they look like the friends like why do they all look the same it's like girls it's cool um

But they say because my dad likes long hair. And I remember we were like, whoever thinks about what their dad wants their hair to look like. But again, that is literally being taught. It's not just something that's kind of like a norm. Literally, it's a teaching. It tells you to discover and conform to your husband's wishes. And to explain your hairstyle to others on the basis of submission.

to authority so if people say you're like well it's because and it is like that so it's like the girl saying well my dad likes my hair like long hair you're showing your authority because before your husband it's your dad

So then they just want to remind you that the way you dress, it's a symbol of not yours, but your husband's tastes, standards, and provisions. Nothing here is about you, notice. You can't look at all how you want to look. It's all about how he wants you to look. But then I think the Jedi mind trick of all of it is that they convince you that this is what you want, too.

it's always that it's always the twisting of like well the girls like that right like yeah we like curly long fucking hair we like the dresses we love the babysit yeah And they're just reminding you. They say, remember, modesty is always in style. Modest is hottest. I'm just letting you know that I prefer cornrows. So I will expect that in your hair by next week. Are the biker shorts and t-shirts, is this representative of your taste standards and provisions right now? Well, Princess Di was...

Pretty awesome in the bike short outfit. So you like this. So I'm a fan. Okay, got it. Cool. As long as you're happy with what I'm wearing, I guess. It talks about, you know, make sure you stay beautiful for your husband and explain to him. Explain to him how colors, lines, patterns and accessories affect your appearance.

So it's like, oh, honey, I know you picked out horizontal stripes, but that's really not great for me. I don't care. I like them. Okay, honey. You know, I'm really not good with a drop waist. I like it. Okay, honey. remember that what your husband likes he enjoys seeing often so that is why and is wearing the the brown polo with the white stripes all the time he wants to see it often so it's on the pillow

it's in their engagement photos it all makes sense now you know i was asking stupid questions earlier if i just kept going yep we know okay the next one is rage inducing so just prepare yourself okay oh man fucking um rage inducing and future deep dive all on its own but because it's part of this i didn't feel like i could skip over it okay is this the worst part of it out of all the steps to you

Ooh, I don't even know at this point. I'm trying to remember what the other ones are. It's hard to remember. There's so many bad ones. She's blinded by rage. So the next one is how your weight is a symbol of husband's leadership and it's of self-control. Yeesh. So it says practice self-control, especially in the area of diet. God is concerned about the bondage of overeating and gluttony.

Many wives struggle with the issue of self-control, especially after giving birth to children. 400 of them, too. Sorry, you know who else struggles with that? Fucking everybody. I know, right? I've had no kids. Yeah. It says weight control requires consistent conformity to God's principles of living. And there's a little part that says, remember, once formed, fat cells don't go away.

Let God and your husband know you care about your weight. Ask your husband to help you identify and remove hindrances to weight control, such as unhealthy foods, poor meal schedules, medical problems, or bitterness. Did you know that bitterness makes you fat? We know. Apparently.

Work together to accomplish specific goals. Your efforts to stay healthy and physically fit will bless your husband. Not you. Not that you might be more healthy. You might have more energy. You might be happier. Maybe you want to be fat. gives a fuck but you know you gotta stay thin because it'll be a blessing to your husband where do you hear anything about the woman in any of this nowhere

Okay, so I'm stopping there with weight because that'll be its own thing later on. Okay, so let's move on to inward beauty. Did you know? The less important one, but go ahead. Did you know, Tim? That a meek spirit and quiet spirit are the keys to genuine attractiveness. I must not be very attractive. Because that's what's hot is somebody who's super meek.

Oh, God, I am not attractive at all, apparently. A wife demonstrates a meek and quiet spirit when she yields all her personal rights and expectations to God. And is sincerely thankful for the things that are done for her. There's nothing hotter than praising God. So how can you develop this meek spirit, right? I don't know. I need help.

Clearly, you need to understand the difference between your rights and your responsibilities. Your rights are what you expect or deserve from others and your responsibilities, of course, are what you need to do. So you need to understand the difference between the two. you need to yield your rights and expectations to god which means your husband because he'll say that god said it of course i mean let's be real here he'll be like well i am your god-given authority

Why does it say God? It should just say husband. Fulfill your responsibilities faithfully and diligently, regardless of what others are doing or failing to do. So your husband's fucking up, but you know, just keep going. Yep. Be diligent. Grow in godly character by properly responding to disappointments. And always practice contentment and gratefulness. It's so many times that it's just be quiet. I can't stop saying it. It's just like just sit down.

Yeah. Okay. We're going to move to four. Oh God. Okay. This is exhausting. Honestly, I'm exhausted. It is.

It's exhausting listening to it. This is going to be a long episode, I can tell. Sorry, guys. It is not just me. It is now my... food and beverage manager who's a female like a bunch of people at work like our go-to line is women am i right because it's so stupid and it's always in jest so when it's uh jen comes back um That manager and she'll come back and be like, hey, table 13 said, you know, she said that this was over or undercooked.

Do you mind just throwing it on the grill for a little bit longer? And then all of us, including her, will go, women, am I right? Because it's such a trope of, like, women are just, yeah. Just being completely ridiculous. All the time. Yeah, so. We're so simple.

Okay, so number four is a man needs a wife who makes appeals, not demands. So a wife, she needs to be able to lovingly appeal to her husband when he's doing something that is going beyond his limitations.

I mean, capabilities I'm going to throw in there too. Okay. And wisely respond to those questions and ideas, goals, or motives. Okay. So, if a wife were to... think that something that the husband is doing is going to cause damage to either the lord's reputation the family to others or to himself she should appeal to him but only with following these proper guidelines So the base example that you guys can look at this through is having a bunch of child porn on your computer.

So we're going to analyze. Whitney's going to give you the breakdown of what the bylaws say. And then I'm going to be the foil looking at it through the example of pests. child porn very good reporting okay so you need to be in right standing with god and your husband how easy would it for him to be like you're not good standing with me

Stupid. To appeal to the person, you have to be in good standing with them. That seems ass backwards. Whenever Whitney doesn't agree with something I do, I'm going to tell her that she's... You're not in good standing. You're not in good standing with me or God. The next one is use the right basis for the appeal. So you need to make sure that you're doing it for your husband's reputation, goals, or authority. Okay. Discern that it's at the right timing.

Thoroughly present accurate facts. Have the right attitude. You don't have the right attitude. This appeal is over. Choose the right wording. And respond with grace to your husband's decision. Okay, so let me get this fucking straight. Men can basically say and do whatever, and it's law. But for women to even voice a concern.

Doesn't mean it's even going to change anything. But to voice a concern, they have to meet an entire fucking checklist and come with fucking receipts. Seems really fair. Yeah. Great. I just want to make sure I was understanding that. That's what you got out of that too? Okay. So it says to explain your needs and fears without condemning him. And after you make the appeal, focus on the benefits, no matter what happens.

Good or bad, focus on the good. That toxic positivity strikes again. And looking through the foil of our example, the positive part of that is that he won't be in their house for a while. That is definitely a huge positive out of this. So I hope that's what Anne is looking at, too. It says, if you fail to demonstrate loyalty, genuine love, a servant's heart.

Your appeal will probably not be accepted. Which, once again, puts the fault on you. Yes, always. Yeah. So if it doesn't work and you're... husband is still doing whatever shitty thing that you were trying to appeal to it's your fault That he's still doing it. There's always a reason. Think of anything in all of this. You don't have the right attitude. This timing's not right. You're not in good standing with me. There's always a way. You just have not been loyal or had a servant's heart.

There's going to be a way for him to constantly get out of it. But it says that when a wife does demonstrate those correct attitudes, she can have tremendous influence over her husband. Which once again, the verbiage of that is so gaslighting because it turns into you are the problem. So if he fixes it, good job. You did it correct. But if he does not fix it.

It is your fault because you obviously did not appeal correctly. It's always her fault. And I just take that as like, keep sweet because if you do, he might listen to you one out of like 44 times if you're lucky. Keep sweet because you have no choice. Yep. It says to make sure your attitudes are consistently right. This is just kind of building off of that. And then, you know, Tim.

Apparently, I'm supposed to be asking you when you sense that I have a resistant spirit. And then I'm supposed to repent and ask you for forgiveness. She never does that, by the way. I want to put that out there. Yeah, like I'm ever going to be like, do I seem like I have a resistant spirit? She never does that either. And then it's also apparently the wife's job to help others understand the husband's perspective.

So it says to build appreciation for your husband's motives, even if his ideas are wrong. So you're a campaign manager. Yes. Yes. It says explain your husband's actions on the basis of his convictions. So again, let me get this fucking straight. We can't really say shit to you, but it is our responsibility to man and control your reputations and decisions to the outside world. Yeah.

We're responsible for fucking everything and nothing at the same time. Is it the weirdest fucking like. But then also you have to go out and appeal to other people that. he's good but don't listen to them too much yes because that's bad yes so if you try to campaign that he's good you're talking to others and they disagree with you It's still on you to try to convince them, but don't take their opinions too hard. Yes. It's like you have zero control, but all the fault. It's insanity.

but kind of going off of what you just said so it's perfectly in line it says do not discredit your husband like talking to people it says in the future people can distort and misuse your words to bring dishonor on him dishonor on you dishonor on your cow um yeah so i know mulan music started going through my head when you said that and

This one's actually a really quick one. I thought that they would go into this more, but it says, dispel a backbiting tongue with silence. Wow. That one, they just put it out there. They just said the quiet part loud. Yep. They actually just said the quiet part loud. Yep. I mean, look, I respect it. They're just looking for a girl worth fighting for. A girl worth fighting for. Wish that I had.

FYI, for all of you out there, we sing that soundtrack a lot. A lot, on a regular basis. Beef, pork, chicken, yum. this is what he gives me to work with well honey I've seen worse okay moving on it's a good thing we don't vlog this we would have been demonetized Okay, number five. We're getting there, guys. I'm sorry. I know this is long, but I cut so much. It's not in a good way, but it's entertaining. Do you see why I was in a rage? And once again, I think it shows as we move forward.

the reason behind a lot of things that they do because there's so many things specifically with Michelle that you're just like, do you not fucking see this? Like, do you not, can you not for a second go,

hmm, something about this isn't right, but it's been so ground into her that you shouldn't even think anything like that. Yeah. I've really, like, oh, hey, hey, I'm kind of biting my tongue. I'm backbiting my, but I... I purposely have cut myself off from going deeper into some of these things that I want to because I actually feel like there'll be good discussions for the wedding episode.

But yeah, so for now, I'm just trying to get through the fucking material. Number five is a man needs a wife who understands his need for time alone with God. Okay. So they want to remind you that, you know, before Eve came along and fucked everything up, it was just, you know, it was Adam and God. Women, am I right? Yeah, women. So, you know, those two, those two first, always.

So a man needs to be alone with the Lord. And if you feel rejected when your husband takes time to be alone with the Lord, you will frustrate him. That's literally what it says.

Clingy much? The richer a man's fellowship with God is, the sweeter a man's fellowship with his wife and family will be. Oof. And I'm not trying to... throw any logs on the fire but that was your father oh yeah your father was the as long as i'm doing stuff that's church related regardless of what adverse effects it has on my family I'm good. He's good. So then it says to make sure that you're telling your husband how pleased you are when you are seeing him spend time with the Lord.

And then it goes into this whole thing how every man needs his own Bethel, which is a private meeting place with God. Oh. Mine's the bathroom. No, that's literally what I wrote. oh my god um it says to encourage your husband to find this place and i said i i wrote down here's my words i wrote i feel like this is an excuse to get away from us

And I said the bathroom. So I feel like next time you're on the toilet for 40 minutes and I come knocking on the door to make sure you're still alive, you're going to be like, I need alone time with God. I'm with God.

And on a random note, I've figured it out. When you and I have been talking about a habit that is... Because obviously, I'm not the only person that does that. There's a lot of... I've heard the stories of a lot of... The things that can get done in one of his poops, it's crazy. But... But I also think about the way that I grew up. I had... relatively overbearing parents that were very hovery and very in my shit and very so i never had a space that was my own so it was your bethel and

And honestly, it was like it was the point where the only place they had any semblance of privacy was in the bathroom because I could lock the door. Are you trying to tell me something? I'm just telling you as a as a kid like that. That was a very. And I'm not trying to over exaggerate, but like that was a minor amount of trauma that I had because I had zero personal space and I had zero place to.

express myself and express you know what i mean like there's and everything had a facade because i was an only child there was a lot of a facade of no you have this open life that you you know what i mean like Like, there's this idea. It's the idea of having every, like, only child is spoiled. Yeah. And it's like...

Yeah, you know what? I didn't have to share anything with siblings, but the idea that I had carte blanche and everything was easy is completely fallible. Like, none of that is true. The only way you could get them out of your shit was to take a shit. Yeah. pretty much i should get that on a t-shirt there you go yeah um so yeah so your bethel is also is definitely the toilet um that

But it's funny because now I'm like, oh, remember like the AB room? No regrets allowed. And they have a prayer closet in the tater tot mansion or prayer room, I guess. But it's funny because if you think I'm guessing that Josh is probably off somewhere watching porn. And then like Anna would come in. He's like, I'm talking to God. Like, yeah. And she's like, oh, oh, God. I'm so grateful for you for spending time with the Lord, you know.

they're just like they're just like oh he's with god yeah sure okay oh is this still the same okay we're on to number six number five was pretty short okay

We're getting there, guys. Getting there. And if I remember seven short. Okay, so number six is a man needs a grateful wife. Oh, I'm going to get mad. I remember now what this one is. So a husband needs a wife who's grateful for all he has done and is doing for her. Here we go. Taking a breath. expect nothing and be genuinely grateful for each little evidence of your husband's love so they're basically telling women to be thrilled with fucking scraps

You get what you get and you don't throw a fit. Not even scraps. It's like crumbs. Here's a fucking... Oh, my God. I can't even move it. It says... Expectations destroy gratefulness. Gratefulness is the basis of joyfulness and a joyful wife is a crown to her husband. An unhappy wife is a public rebuke to him. Am I a public rebuke? A husband feels like a prisoner of his wife's expectations if she doesn't release them to the Lord.

A wife should continually be expressing sincere gratitude for the loving provisions of her husband rather than continually reminding him of his shortcomings and failures. You haven't done that at all today. To develop a grateful spirit, you should expect nothing and learn to be appreciative of each little expression of your husband's love.

I just love the fact that their own fucking words are each little. They have said little, each little twice now. So they are literally teaching you to be satisfied with crumbs. thrilled thrilled she i see every little little a little morsel can i make two comments yes am i allowed to make two comments i guess okay in my last commune with god in my bethel I was thinking. That was a poop, by the way. The two things I was going to say is when was all of this formulated again?

Oh, I don't know. We did the – I mean, like, just, like, the cult in general. 70s. Okay. 60s into 70s, but it didn't be – let's just say 70s for when he developed other stuff outside of the teen things. Okay. So, one of the – things that's been coming up kind of at work is the difference in generation with how emotionally expressive father figures are these days and

there's obviously a gigantic swath of of people that are still i'll never tell my kids i love them or you know so there's we're still dealing with that but i definitely feel like A larger portion of society understands that traditionally a functional male head of household... can't express those things and does have emotions and is able to talk through those things with their children and the fact that crying is a normal emotional response to

Yeah. Regardless of gender, you know, so I definitely feel like... prior generation struggled with that a lot more than our current one does so looking through this there is a lot of that where like the era where this bullshit was came up with was an era where like men don't cry, and you don't tell your kids emotional things. So there's a lot of stuff like that. So I'm looking at it through the era is part of it.

But also just religion and patriarchy type things in general. Yeah, definitely. And the only nugget out of that step that I feel can be true... is that the biggest hurdle to our happiness at times is expectations, good or bad. I don't disagree with that either. But that's being fucking twisted into this idea that like, don't expect anything.

yeah it's no like again like i keep saying a nugget of truth and then they fuck it all up it's true like you don't want to set these expectations that are not achievable and then you're just setting yourself up for disappointment that can be true

But that's not what they're saying. It starts out that way with the first sentence and then it completely goes away from that. So it's like you lost all like... yeah you were so close you were so close to the right answer they're never capable they're never capable of taking through something and you'd be like that whole thing was good yeah ever okay so where was i

oh um oh god here we go so in showing gratitude to your husband because that's our life you know that's what we need to do 24 7 hold on i need to take notes on this all right so how do you show that you're grateful to me um Do you know what we have to do?

We should be listing the gratitude. It literally says listing. So I'm supposed to be giving you a fucking list, apparently. You do like lists. I do, actually. I love a list. God, give me a piece of paper and I'll write down anything I can. Perfect. I have a subject matter. But you're supposed to be listing off your gratitude to your husband in order of most importance to him. Okay.

So it says that a wife's priorities are usually different from a husband's and that the husband's priorities are usually involved activities and expenditures to build his reputation to provide security. So not one fucking thing can be about us. Even in showing fucking gratitude, it's still about what he cares about more.

not like what if i'm actually more grateful for something else but i'm like you know what i guess i gotta put that at the bottom of the list and that stupid thing i don't care a lot it needs to be at the top because he cares about it more it's fucking preposterous even in saying thank you You have to think of them first. Yeah. Fuck off. That's it. I go all the way back to them going to this fundy camp.

with all the other like homeschool conference yeah yeah and it was them talking about what the two different groups were going to do and it was like the older girls were going to take care of the little kids and then the the boys are gonna climb walls and learn about god climb walls and learn about god yeah exactly like come on man um so the other thing which you should be doing i got another list okay

Apparently, Tim, I'm supposed to be listing what your husband has wisely not done. I've been waiting. So it says that a wife... What? I will tell you, we were talking... about a couple things when we were eating either today or yesterday and Whitney came over and gave me like the gave me like the boob pat I always give them the boob pat and she was like Thank you for not being an asshole. It was because I was doing this research. Yeah. So.

So that's good. So you were technically doing step number seven. I guess I was doing this technically. Where you were like, thank you for not being an asshole. That's funny. I actually was doing this. But I was in here working on this deep dive and I was so fucking angry. And we had dinner and I was just overcome with like... God, I'm so glad he's not a dickwad. Okay, so a wife often overlooks the mistakes and failures that her husband has managed to avoid.

yeah and you know specific praise helps a man's self-image so it says to praise your husband for wisely avoiding worldly traps and for making righteous decisions so i'll be good job honey um you went another day uh without getting a felony like i mean what do you want us to fucking like i like literally what did they want you to do yeah because you're supposed to praise for things that they do do, but then praise for things that they haven't done. But as long as it's only important to him.

I mean there's so many rules. When are you supposed to get some sleep? I don't understand. That's why the daughters do everything. It makes sense. The daughters take care of the fucking kids and clean the fucking house and cook the meals so you can spend your day. telling your husband you're grateful for every fucking thing he's ever done ever or not done I will tell you though I was making gin cocktails last night for me and Whitney so I was deceived by wine last night oh yeah you were

God, how exhausting. Being a woman in this is exhausting. um it says to praise your husband for any achievement in areas you want him to excel which this is really fucking funny to me because and that's all they say they don't expand on that and the to me it's like a form of manipulation because to me the wording of where you want him to excel makes it sound like it's something he's not really doing that great at right it's something you want him to excel at right

Areas of improvement. Yes. So if you praise him, maybe he will like pay more attention to and actually start to do a better job is what I take. Does this, is this kind of reinforcement? Are you getting this out of this too? Okay. I was like, is that just me? So it's like she can't just come out and say, hey, I wish he would do this. Or, hey, could you focus on this? Or, hey, I've been noticing. She has to manipulate him to get it done.

that's it you have to you know give this you ask for appeal with the fucking checklist and then if you want something to be looked at differently you have to manipulate him into doing it yeah we're finally on seven I'm just moving through because I'm getting fucking furiated. She needs another gin cocktail. Fuck, dude. So number seven is a man needs a wife who will be praised by others, which is fucking weird to me.

Yeah. Because it's telling you nothing outside the home is important, but everything outside the home is important. It's so contradictory. Yeah. It says when a woman is praised for her character and for her good works, she brings honor to her husband and to the Lord. And then it all makes sense. Because a wife is really, you know, it's really only about her husband.

It's never about her. So someone praising her in actuality is praise to him. And they apparently seem to need all the praise that they can get. so now it makes sense because at first i was like the fuck and then i read that next line she brings honor to her husband it's never about her it is always about him so um it says that her

So it gives these different places like these outside others that could be giving her praise and what types of praise they could be. Each of them had very long lists. I whittled them down to some of the best. Oh, damn. So her spiritual leaders should praise her for her love for her husband and children, for her submission and obedience to her husband. If somebody came up to me and praised me, like, you're so obedient of your husband. What the fuck kind of compliment is that?

And then for her high morals, I guess that's okay. Her children should praise her for harmony with her husband. Because, I mean, she never goes against him ever. So I'm imagining to kids it is pretty harmonious in their house. Because you can't have an opinion or a thought about anything. Because when you look back at your childhood, you want to go, man, my parents had such harmony.

who fucking talks like that her children you know apparently your your children should be praising their mother for her diligence thriftiness and wise home management Well, you got thriftiness. And for her alertness and skill in meeting her children's needs. You know what, Mom? You have a real alertness and skill in meeting our needs. Like when Mildred wants to eat at four and then we...

Slash you feed her at four. I'm very alert and skilled. Yep. And then for her wisdom and kindness, I guess that's okay. So for the, it says, talks about government leaders. And how they should praise her. It only lists two things in this category, though, which is funny. And it was for her prayers for them and for her good works. I mean, I know, you know, we live in... glendale and i really want like the city comptroller you know to tell me that my wife does good work yeah exactly

Then there's neighbors and it's like for her generosity, blah, blah, blah, hospitality, blah, blah, blah. Don't really care. Last one is her church should praise her for submitting to her husband and thus not blaspheming God's word. Again. all about him good job um submitting to your husband and not you know um for her faithfulness to her marriage vows again nothing to do with her

And then the last one that I chose was for her ability to teach younger women how to be a fucking doormat. I added in that last part, just so we're clear.

It's really what we need is more women teaching young girls how to have, you know, be a shell of a fucking person. That's great. Yeah. Okay. So then we're closing out now. Okay. Okay. Along with this, I'll have my final thoughts like Jerry Springer. But the last part is special cautions. And it says that a wife's work should demonstrate her husband's sincere motives, giving to needs without expectation of reward.

A wife should not try to resolve her husband's problems with good works without his consent. Don't do fucking anything without his consent. Then you can become a godly wife. As you meet your husband's needs, you will bring glory to God and the heart of your husband will trust in you. Your husband will rejoice in the wife of his youth. That's it for the actual paperwork. I'm fucking exhausted. And let me tell you how much I cut out. Oh, God. I know I've said that 400 times. It's so bad.

I just kept the... You said one of them was like 18 pages long. So bad. So there are... There's actually a seven basic needs of a wife. Clearly that is another deep dive for another day. Well, you said this one was a... a pamphlet i think it's reached the level of a booklet i'm assuming that the that the needs of a wife is like a flyer

No, Tim, it's actually hilarious. Like a quarter sheet flyer? This pamphlet was eight pages, and because I combined the two, that's why it got longer, and I edited and blah, blah, blah, blah, and took things out. So it went from 18 pages. I took it down to about 10. Okay. The wife one. Is not $2. It is $20 and it's 88 pages. Oh my god.

But my understanding is because it's a bunch of stories. This bullshit? This story. This bullshit plus like stories. Wow. But you know, I mean, I don't even have to read it to know that it's still not going to be about the wife's needs. It's still going to be about the husband's needs. Of course. But.

I also think it's hilarious that it costs more money. Yeah. Yep. So if I can interject before Whitney's wind down, that's her final thoughts. I wouldn't want to get sued by Jerry Springer. So Whitney's wind down.

There you go, Whitney Swindon. So, do you remember when that... like state congress or no maybe it was a national congressman that got in trouble for the tapping of the foot in the men's bathroom because he wanted to get a little happy time oh yeah yeah yeah then they went back and they looked at his voting And he had been voting against like gay marriage and all of these like LGBTQ rights things. Of course. And he had been voting so hard against it. And then that shit went down. Of course.

So it's that idea of like, people will show you who they are, even if they're telling you something different. And it's, you know, Brene Brown talks about how like... We are more judgy on other people about the things that we are most self-conscious about. Complete projection. Yeah. Yeah. So that's what this reminds me of. And that's why I asked you what era it came. Like it was, it was.

devised it because you can tell whoever the fuck came up with this thing had issues with they were obviously very self-conscious they obviously felt like they needed positive affirmation all the time i think they never

They never wanted to hear any sort of anything from their wife. So it was like, how do I create a patriarchal system that will reinforce that? Yeah. And, you know, I think there's... all sorts of world stuff going on right now and i feel like you have people that are like destroy the patriarchy this is a class a example of what those people are talking about exactly

It's not just social justice warriors that are on the internet. This is exactly the kind of shit that people grew up with that were like, no, this is the way to live. Because I look at it. On a personal level, like even in my culture or like my heritage in traditional Mexican families.

it's not broken down like this but it's more social yeah it's social on the side of like you need to act this way in order to be and it's very similar it's very stay in the home take care of the kids and i think it is for a lot of older it's it is for a lot of religions and it lives for a lot of like i mean it's the classic it's the tradition traditional is the word gender roles type thing but these things are just

so extreme and there's no coming out there is no evolving they will allow it to evolve in any kind of way can i relate it before you start your wind down can i relate it to one thing that's not real yes I'm playing a game right now called Red Dead Redemption. Oh, here we go. It's not real. But there's a character in there that very early on gets... kind of like rescued but like her husband died her house burned down so this group of kind of kind of criminals light bring her in

Because it's a group of men and women and they're like, we're going to take care of you, you know. And she's always so like... angry you can walk up and be like morning how are you and she always like reacts really shitty and i remember being like man it sucks that they made this character kind of

angry just angry you know what i mean i felt like it was like the stereotype of like the nagging woman angry at the world and then i reached a point in the game where she was like my husband and i used to split the duties she's like i was outside working our our farm while he was inside he talked to this lady just so we're cooking and so

she brings up the fact that like my husband's dead my life was destroyed but i'm not used to just having to be the person that's just sitting in the kitchen like that's not my that's not how i grew up yeah and this

This game was set in like the late 1800s, early 1900s. So there's a whole thing about her where she goes into town with you to do the work that you as a man do. And when she gets done, she bought... a new outfit and she's wearing pants and she's like oh girl right and she's like doing every job Like she does everything in the story. So it's that same idea of like in that era, that was not a thing that happened. Yeah. I mean, and she was just like, no, it's bullshit. Yeah. So.

I know it's not a real character, but it's a great... Oh, but you talk to her, so it's real. But it's a great narrative. If you talk to her. It's a great narrative, and it fits into what we're talking about. It does. Yep. So... All right. You ready to start Whitney's wind down? Starting the wind down. We need a good theme song. So if you guys can think of anything for Whitney's wind down, let me know.

So I touched on this before, but really for me, my takeaway from this, that it was just wild to see this all on paper completely spelled out. like clearly over the course of time we have seen this all play out before our you know but kind of like you just said I thought it was a little bit more kind of like cultural cultural or like i said with like the adoring gaze like learned behavior it it just really hits hit me totally differently reading that this is what they're actually taught

Yeah. Because it's not, you know, it's not crazy to think that Anna was probably handed this this pamphlet and being like, here you go. This is what your husband's going to need. and then she's going into this going like oh my god you know like this is okay i got to do this this and this so not even just learned behavior by watching but like literally you're reading it on paper because that's the stuff that you really file away as like a must do

i feel like it's a little bit different when you just kind of watch things and learn it than being like oh nope i was told to do this and i feel like it sorry no good i feel like it eliminates the ability for wiggle room yeah absolutely Because if it's just a cultural thing, and even in my family, I have examples of male-female relationships that are not traditionally like that. Or they're varying in the way that they are, you know, like...

their dynamic is different because they're like, Hey, you know what? I, you know, I have, uh, cousin of my mom's that we spent a lot of time with them for a while and you know what she hates cooking yeah and he's the one that does all the cooking in the house you know what i mean it's so blasphemous Right. Even within that, like there's air. But if you write it down like this and you have these steps and you have to take them off like homework, there's no wiggle room. Yep.

uh it's like studying for a test it's like she's studying how to be a wife you know like it's not just like here's some little advice it's like here's what you do read this get to work yep um and you know it just read really like infantile on both sides but in two totally different ways like with women like i kept saying like we're just too simple we're too stupid we couldn't possibly understand

you know we couldn't do any of these things without without the help of a man like we're just too we're too stupid we're too you know we don't understand but then it's like on the men's side it's like they're just big fucking babies with even bigger egos that need constant stroking they need constant praise validation like it's sickening i'm like who needs that much validation in a day is a little bit of praise and validation a good thing

Yes. And does some gratitude go a long way? Abso-fucking-lutely. But this sounds exhausting. Like a woman is supposed to sit there and thank him for... fucking crumbs and then also praise him for shit he hasn't done that is preposterous oh my god I'm just I'm so mad I need you to wake me up in the middle of the night and go hey thank you for not robbing

anybody well one that's funny is like you said that i came up and said that and that was specifically because of this but you and i do have moments where we thank each other for like little things it's natural it has nothing to do with being told oh god i gotta fucking tell him something yeah he needs that like i could never be i could never be a wife like this never i can't fake anything and if it doesn't come from genuinely in my own brain

of like in this moment i actually feel grateful i can never fucking do it and on the same vein i know that like obviously the men are kind of the ones that get the better end of the deal here yeah It still sounds exhausting because there's, once again, there's no ability to have your life. If you exist in this system, you are a functional part of your community.

Like of that of that community right there. Yeah. You are a you're a good man because you do all of these things. And this is this is what you've what you've made your family into. Yeah. That sounds awful as well. Like to me. So even though from them, it seems like they got the Kush part of the job.

it grosses me out but i feel like they'll also tell a woman like i could see a woman being like i'm glad i'm not the man he has so much responsibility like because it's like he is like the brain and the decision maker and the law but but like we talked about but then the woman took the blame for everything yeah so it's like there's no win i don't know it's just really sad because you can just tell that

well we know this but you know women are made to feel like they're not allowed they're not allowed to feel or to express themselves in any kind of way and you know I'm sure they have zero sense of self. How could they? How can they have any kind of sense of self when they go from being under the complete direction of their father straight to their husband? And you're already a child mother.

Yeah. Yep. They're just here to serve their husband. They represent him always. They are there to give him praise and also earn him praise through the praise of their own. And then nothing is ever about them. Yep. Okay, my final, final thought. Final, final. Like, it really occurred to me that every single marriage within this is, like, a man is... It's his own cult. It's like a cult within a cult. It's like cult inception. It's like we have this actual cult.

And then every marriage is a cult because the man, it's the same ideas. He rules. You don't question. You follow. Yeah. So he's a cult leader of his own family. And then they're a part of this other cult. So it's just like cults upon cults upon cults upon cults. Yeah. It literally mirrors just a cult itself. So anyways, the cult of Jim Bob, the cult of Jepest, you know, like, like the cult of Paul Keller.

okay i think i have to be done now are you okay yeah i just have to i have to be done okay um Well, this was a doozy to come back on. I'm so sorry. This is so long. Hopefully you divided it into parts. If you made it through the journey, thank you. As always, you can send us emails, send us questions at... Um, digging up the Duggars at Gmail, at Gmail. And then the Instagram is digging up the Duggars pod.

Real quick, I did just want to shout out people who have donated to the Buy Me a Coffee. It's very sweet of you. We have 11 supporters so far. We appreciate it. Some of you have been generous and done multiple. But I really just want to reiterate really quickly.

that what what you're laughing already i know what you're gonna do good no i'm just gonna say that i'll never i will never look at it as just five dollars ever like i will never go like well it's only five bucks i mean what we live in an expensive world that is only getting more expensive by the day here in arizona um what is minimum wage like 12 something yeah five bucks is a half an hour of your of your time if you make minimum wage all of us to get money are sacrificing something our mental

Our mental health, our time, our body, it is a sacrifice. We're all selling ourselves for money every day in some way. And if someone is... Why am I going to cry? Someone is going to... What the fuck is my problem, Tim? What the fuck is my problem? If somebody is giving me their $5, I appreciate it. That's all I wanted to say. Yeah. No, it's the case. And we are very grateful that... There's people that will sit and listen to us talk at each other for a while. It's still wild to me. We have...

On Spotify, they do a thing where you can see what countries where people have listened from. And we've had Malaysia recently. So I'm like, man, what expat is hanging out in Malaysia being like, let me listen to a Duggar snark podcast. So either way, we are grateful. If you are that person, shoot us an email. That's awesome. We have our friend Haga from hell.

Yeah, I caught up this week on a bunch of messages because those piled up while we were away. But I think I did get back to everybody. I have to read Tim some of them. Some of them I've read to him. Some of them I haven't yet. But it's so much fun hearing from you guys. And we really appreciate it. Thank you. Oh, and by the way, you asked me. I looked it up. Remember how I said on the buy me a coffee thing? I was like, oh, I think it's a stupid name because I ran out of characters. It is...

Buy me a coffee.com slash digging up the Doug. Digging up Doug. Digging up the Doug. Yep. Because I was like, I'm out of character. So there we go. Hilarious. I love it. Sorry for the long episode. This was exhausting. I need several drinks. Good night. I will make sure that I will praise her for what she did and I will thank her for not doing it. And what I didn't do. Yep. Have a good week.