Episode 15 - Selfish Piñata

Mother is believing. At least I have a husband, you know. Does anybody here believe it? We are from Arkansas, no? Okay, episode 15. This makes it the Jackson episode. Jackson was the very first birth we ever saw in one of the specials. So we've officially hit. now the kids that we watched being born okay so here we go we're about to run out of kids here soon okay so today's episode is called duggars learn to drive there shouldn't be a plural it should be dugger but um

And it premiered November 10th, 2008. So the episode starts off with yet another very obvious product placement. Oh, yeah. Like I said, I just... I wonder if I even noticed this when I was younger or not I'm not sure.

i just don't think you paid attention probably not like i didn't give a shit now i'm like huh it's very obvious so it's a scene with jill and michelle and they're cleaning this one small side of a cabinet and it's very random it's like such an odd place to be like we're gonna film you cleaning the side of this cabinet and they're like both cleaning the corner the same side of the same cabinet like it's it's funny and they've got spray bottles of pledge multi-surface yep

Of course, labels out very much holding it like in a way that it's like out there. Yep. And Michelle says, I think keeping a house clean is difficult. But it's very difficult when you have many more people, especially when those are a lot of little people. So then she talks about how the first three months of pregnancy, she's really tired and nauseous. So she doesn't do as much cleaning around the house. As much. We know, Michelle. We know.

but also i really don't think it stops at three months i don't think she does the bulk of the cleaning anyway so i think it's just so funny that um she acts like that changes because she says but she makes up for it at the end of you know with nesting

Sure. Sure. Okay. So then it switches over to Jim Bob and he's going to go take Ginger out for a driving lesson. So Ginger becomes basically the topic.

of conversation right so then there's a talking head of michelle michelle michelle michelle and she calls ginger bubbly expressive i'm like god i called her expressive too i called her the same thing as michelle bubbly expressive and loves life she's like she necessarily knows what bubbly means it's like compared to your kids yeah the rest of them yeah so she says she's like the woman with a million expressions we just laugh she says she's a fun person to be with and you

And yet she can be very dramatic. And it's like she really emphasizes dramatic. Very dramatic at times. It's really cute to watch her personality as she goes into maybe a situation that is a little stretching for her. and to watch how she handles it is quite fun and entertaining. She provides a light amount of teenage angst when she rolls her eyes at her siblings. You know what I mean? Like, that's...

Nothing compared to... but i've said even like when i talk about open here she is getting angsty like it's really not even bad it's just compared to the rest of them yeah we see angst and i could so i guess i could see in a way how to them she's bubbly as shit but like she's really not that bubbly like she's really not so then it switches to a scene where lego is telling michelle that they're gonna go practice for them for her to go driving and did you notice how boob has his arms

like he's like he's like holding ginger's like shoulders yeah and the look on ginger's face like it's so funny and she's kind of doing i'm trying to think of like how do i describe it so people can kind of visualize like she's like doing like the smush lips where you like raise your eyebrows too and like your eyes get bigger kind of like yeah like yeah can you visualize that but she's just kind of like like it's like the

not wanting attention smile yeah kind of i will die on go ahead go ahead i will die on this hill people singing to me on my birthday is the worst thing i've ever experienced It's so uncomfortable because I'm like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to say. I don't know who to look at. Do I smile at people as they're singing words at me? It's weird. So you make ginger face while you're going to sing too? I totally make ginger face.

of the lips in the straight across kind of way yeah and like the light shrug yeah like you're like when your eyes get bigger yeah so then cousin amy is back and this is the first time we've seen her since i isn't it since the uh skydiving i think yeah yeah so we haven't seen amy in a couple of episodes but she's back and jim bob is teaching both amy and ginger how to drive stick shift and it basically goes how you expect amy

goes like really fast over hills and things and she's just like oh my god you know whatever and they're doing this all in the front yard and then after don't you mean the middle of nowhere yeah oh i'm sorry i'm sorry middle of nowhere but they do have quite a bit of like hills and stuff on their land so i was kind of like should they really be going this fast over these hills like and then it was ginger's turn

And Ginger says she was scared to try because Amy freaked her out. Yeah. And added to her stress levels. I feel like Amy in this scene was very her like need for attention was showing. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because it was like every person that does it and they're like making more noise and being extra like over exaggerating their emotions in the moment to get some attention. It was a little rough.

and you know you know i said i remember back from being like i'd be friends with amy yeah i specifically remember when she says like oh is this with the shifty deal and i remember thinking oh that's something i would say because i would say shifty deal so it's kind of cringy when i go i'm like oh it was stuff like that that i was like i could be friends with amy

So then it cuts to Jessa and talking ahead of her. And she says, Ginger gets very interesting whenever she is under stress. She makes like all these funny facial expressions.

So everybody is very about Ginger and her funny faces. I should just start calling her funny face. Right. Well, in one of those talking heads, Lego Hair gave himself credit where... uh he was like when ginger gets stressed and alluding to the fact that like she uses jokes to break the tension like she starts making like really comedic comments in the moment to break the tension and he was like um Yeah, she likes to tell jokes when she's in those stressful moments. You know, just like her dad.

You are telling everybody that you're funny means you're probably not funny. Because, you know, when I think of funny, I think of Jim Bob Duggar. Regular, regular. Comedian over here. Yeah, that's what I think of when I think of funny. But just kind of ending that scene, overall, Ginger does pretty well with the stick shift, apparently. So this episode is kind of funny because you can actually tell that all of the...

car stuff is all happening on the same day but they're trying to like they're flipping back and forth a little bit right so then the next scene introduces girls who teach the kids all their violin and piano lessons and it's the two oldest daughters of a family that's a part of their home church and their dad died in a car accident 12 years ago it's kind of random that they're just telling us these details really yeah shows her them like

giving the kids lessons and then it shows them the youngest two um just like practicing like holding like foam violin like real sickly She needs some sun, and she needs some, like, protein. A nutrient. Yeah. Do you need a little vitamin A, maybe some K? Yeah, she looked rough. Some sunlight. Don't. Break your shoulder putting that violin on your neck. But yeah, so not a whole lot to this segment as far as, you know, the music part goes. But there is a part.

Where they show little four-year-old Jackson. This is his episode. So it's kind of ironic. Little four-year-old Jackson is sitting in a chair. And he kind of has like trying not to cry face. And Michelle says, Jackson is sitting so that he can listen. meanwhile like this kid looks like he wants to be anywhere else he's michelle uh trying not doesn't want to be talking about hoes jackson is like i want to be anywhere else right now

And she says, if he sits and he can pay attention and stay out of the way. So he's getting to watch ensemble practice. So this is all about learning obedience and self-control. two character qualities that are very important right jackson and then she like she yeah and then she uh bends down and like like nodding her head she's like yeah like yeah self-control

It's really cringy. And then she says that she doesn't use timeout because she doesn't have to use it so much because she doesn't really have to use discipline because she has her kids practice self-control.

Her exact verbiage about timeout was, I don't use timeout as discipline. It curbs discipline. I was so confused by that wording. Yeah, I think it's... like time out doesn't do anything is kind of what i what i took that but it was just an odd way of like putting it i was like what and like i even second guessed myself so that's why i didn't write that exactly down yeah because i was like the fuck is she saying

But yeah, so that's all. We're just touching on that because it's a part of the episode. But don't you worry. Future deep dive will be all about discipline. So then the next scene, apparently Josiah.

Saw a robot on the internet. On the interwebs. You know. Must have been a Christian robot. Yeah. The dangers of pornography. So they.

They got through that and he saw a robot instead. Yeah. Christian robot. Yes. So Josiah decided he wanted to make one. So he made it out of like random boxes from around the house. And it is pretty cute. He did a pretty good job. Did you see how... hard they were trying not to say that it was wally no the pinata that he made that was a robot found on the internet looked exactly like wally but it was pre-wally

It had tractor treads. It was boxy. It had the marks, like the little screen and the speakers that Wally has on the front top of his box. Like the head of it had like the eye. It looked exactly like WALL-E.

i feel like they were all just trying to avoid saying that he saw oh do you know it's true that but actually now that okay this is this is stupid so if this was premiering in november 2008 this was filmed in the summer of 2008 wally did come out that summer because i remember seeing it the night before i started culinary school

which was in July of 2008. Damn, you're right. You're a fucking, you cracked the case. He saw Wally on the internet. I've been watching Matlock. You, you cracked that one. So Josiah makes this robot, this WALL-E. And then they beat WALL-E up. And they decide to turn it into a pinata for Michelle's 42nd birthday. There's, at the beginning of this, Lego hair is... Standing with her in front of their doorway. Inside the house.

With like a group of people around them. That's after actually. And they're wearing different clothes. So it's like this gets divided into two different segments. So first there's a segment where they're saying it's her birthday for the pinata. And then so she says this is not a selfish pinata. This is an unselfish pinata. If I ever have anything where I can create my own title or my own nickname, I want to be a selfish pinata.

And who, what would I be? I don't know. Answer carefully. But I would have a business card that would say Tim Salgado. Selfish pinata. Selfish pinata. So it's an unselfish pinata, you guys, because there are bags inside with the candy. She's like, we are not greedy. And going for all of the candy. No, instead there's bags and you're going to help them find their bag with their name on it. Is this supposed to be a metaphor for churches hoarding tax money?

You know, I think it is. So she says, and you guys can thank Josiah. For making it and Jason for buying all the candy. So we got this little kid out here with this three cents of fucking jurisdiction buying candy for the whole fucking mess. What? It's very kind of you, Jason. Sounds like he's unselfish, just like that piñata. Seriously. This is an unselfish... We're going to be saying unselfish piñata all the time. I can feel it. Anyways, so then...

Because they're wearing different clothes and then it goes to the scene that you're talking about. Do you want to lead that one? So he's standing in front of the doorway in the house. Which is weird to begin with. And there's like a group of people around them that are like family and friends. And it is the most awkward. I should have written it down for word to word. It is the most awkward introduction.

where he was like fumbling on his words and he was like well you know we're here because uh you know it's it's her uh her it's it's uh michelle's michelle's uh uh 42nd year and then she's like It's my 42nd birthday. Like she had to bail him out. She's like, fuck. Scott cannot talk. Oh my God. It was so bad. I'm like, doesn't she feel special? You stood in front of her friends and family and then she had to announce her birthday. Well, did you notice it was self filmed?

yeah so this was like obviously the pinata was them being there and they're gonna like the crew being there it's like we're gonna celebrate your birthday and then it's like on our actual birthday they self-film this and jim bob asks you know um if anyone wants if they have anything they want to say about

Michelle and I'm like oh I have a few things I want to say about Michelle but I don't I'm not sure that's quite what you're looking for Jim Bob so uh look for you I wasn't there but then we get our second appearance from Deanna So Deanna awkwardly, Jim Bob's sister, Femi's mother, for people who might need a refresher, Deanna awkwardly holds Michelle's hand.

Like grabs her hand and is holding her hand and says how she's such a wonderful sister-in-law and she praises the Lord for her. Which is just funny compared to the... what Miss Glamour Headshot has to say about them these days. It's just quite a stark difference. It's funny. She was talking exactly like Michelle and it was kind of gross.

just like she was doing that really breathy like really high like demure like do you think that's when like you hang out with your friends and you start talking like them so she's like oh i'm in her house so i gotta be breathy probably you're like i gotta work on being breathy before i get there you gotta like Get your lungs all prepped. And then Femi, as they're walking around saying things about Michelle, Femi's like, I've never seen her upset.

I've never seen her in a bad mood. She says I've never heard her yell over and over. Yeah. And it's like, not saying that you should be yelling all the time, but if they've never ever seen you even remotely tiffed, I feel like you're going to have a mental breakdown.

at some point well and it's like that's also a problem yes like you said you don't want to watch people walking around yelling all the time but there's also something else to be said if you've never seen someone upset and you're in your 20s yeah exactly We don't express our feelings. What you have to do is you have to put them in a ball and you just jam them so far down into yourself that it manifests in a mental breakdown at some point. Or extreme constipation.

So then after that are you done with that? Is there anything else you wanted to add? I was just curious. The only thing I wrote down was if she's never shown that she's upset, I would have loved to be around her during Josh's sentencing. Did she show any emotions? Was she disappointed? Was she pissed? I think they locked her in the prayer closet. Or the AV room or something. Or maybe in the little nursery in her room. And I think they just left her there to rock in the chair.

So the next scene is yet another product placement. But this time it's for their own book. And it's their very first book that I reference more than I'd like to admit. and doesn't know the name of the of the book yeah yeah he got it wrong the Duggars 20 and counting like he's staring at the and he says it wrong yeah

And then it's just hilarious because Boob and Michelle are seated at desks for this scene that are side by side. They're those roll top like wood desks. Yeah. They have two of them that are side by side. So they're sitting next to each other. And it's just really funny because each desk has a printed.

off like paper copy of the cover yeah and on boob's desk it's like it's like leaned up against something so it's like facing out towards the camera yeah and then on her desk it's it's it is down but there's a point where she's like going over something like they're acting like they're real busy talking about this stuff and she points to something and then the camera zooms in and it's like the paper under it is the cover again

And they're talking about the book and how it's made up of mostly questions that they get. And they're just kind of like compiling questions. well yeah so then it just kind of zooms in on the cover and that's kind of it and he's just like you know it's just you know all the questions people ask just put it all in a book

So the next scene, now we're flipped back to the driving because we've been a little all over the place here. So now they're finally going to actually get Ginger's driving test done. So it's kind of funny because so they get in the car.

and boob says first thing you do is start it up a couple things here i love her comment a couple things here number one she's driven before she's headed to her driver's test so yes she's driven before i think she knows you need to turn on the vehicle i know that they have had you know school around the dining room table across from like the qt cup uh dispenser that she's not that smart but i think she's got it

And mind you, you were driving earlier in this episode, which is earlier in the day. So it's like, he's just such a bad actor. Gotta have something to say. First thing you do, but the best part is, she says... first thing you do is wait for joy to move and then you end up seeing joy's face kind of like pop up in the in the window next to her so but she's just kind of like first thing you do is wait for joy to move like it's not super animated

And there was no way with the way they were sitting that Lego hair would have seen her outside the vehicle. So I'm not saying that he should have like mysteriously been able to see at all spots. But he probably wouldn't have noticed anyway. He doesn't take care of his kids. Look what happened when they were changing the oil. Maybe you shouldn't be climbing on that rusty metal. It's like the sisters that are stopping her.

So good thing the sister's around. Keeps Joy from getting ran over. Johanna from falling down some rickety stairs. So then it goes to a talking head of Jill. And Jill says, Ginger is really cool. personality wise, probably her and I of the four of us girls are the most alike. We get stressed out about a lot of the same things. And it's, and it's in this moment that I really am like, it came to like, I really realized that like Jill.

jill is a dweeb yeah like a dweeb and like here's the thing here's the thing Dweeb is probably the best way I can describe her. Now, what's your definition of a dweeb? Can I get the definition, please? I'm not sure if I have a full definition, but let me put it in a... Think of like...

The words dweeb, dork, and nerd. On a scale here, nerd is on one end. I feel like dork is in the middle and dweeb is on the other end. So I feel like dweeb and dork are closer to each other, but they're still different. Okay.

you're telling me what they are in relation to each other, but I need to know what they are. So like a dork, like think of, think of just like what you think of as being like a dork. Like you're just kind of like, Oh, that's a dork. Like they just do stuff and you're like, Ooh, you just kind of like cringe, like a little bit.

but i feel like so the only quantifiable thing you've given me is cringy behavior yes yes okay cringy but like just kind of like like just like kind of over the top and kind of like off but like in off ways like off timing like you're just kind of almost like it's awkward is the what yeah but where i i if i really have to think about it i feel like maybe

Almost like a nature versus nurture thing. I think you become a dork. I think you're a dweeb from birth. Like it's in you. Okay. Does that make sense? Not at all. No? No. So how would you describe a dweeb? I don't know. That's why I don't say that word. Well, she's a dweeb. If anybody's wondering, she's a dweeb. But let me make it clear. There are worse things to be in the world than a dweeb. Agree. This is not even a... Like this isn't like a bad thing. Like this isn't even like real like...

It's merely a fact that she's a dweeb. I'm not saying it's not understandable. I'm not saying it's her fault. I'm not saying that she's off-putting. I'm just saying... You haven't given me any quantifiable description of what a dweeb is. Well, maybe I'll have to think on it. Maybe next episode I'll have a better description. And if you guys have any ideas, reach out to us. All I can say is it's not an insult. It's an observation.

And she's born with it. Maybe she's born with it. Maybe she's a dweeb. That's real good. But I don't know. Just describe what her dweeby behavior is. Like in this scene when she's talking about Ginger. So she just got done saying that they get stressed out by the same things. Right. And then she talks about like.

She almost like mutter jumbles a bunch of stuff where you can tell she's getting at like driving and then all of a sudden getting stressed out by something. But what I mean by dweeby is that she just makes these like weird noises as she goes like.

and then if you remember like in one of the early specials she was the one that when they were talking about waiting in line to get into the bathroom she was like hurry hurry hurry do you remember that's what i mean don't you think that's dweeby behavior I mean, that's you giving me an example of it, so yes. I don't know. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just confused.

It's like the double knee slap that she did a couple episodes ago. She has a lot more of her father in her than for her own good. Yeah, I don't know. It's just... it's dweeby because I feel like that's Jim Bob to a T because I feel like a nerd here I'm trying now you got me stuck on trying to come up with a definition for you a nerd to me is like you know a lot about something

Like you're very invested in a topic and you're kind of like, oh, that's kind of like a nerd. But like it's more just like invest in something and you're kind of very much into learning a lot of things, whether it be about a character or a movie or school or books. You have like an obsession almost. To me, that's almost like a nerd. Okay. Dork is when you're just like, fuck, dude. Like you're just like a, you're just kind of awkward. But in a more.

over the top i think trying to be like way like that's like um so with Through your definition, I don't know why we're taking so much time with this. I know, this is going up for way too long. Through your definition then, I feel like every person goes through a stage where they're a dork. I agree. That's why when you're in middle school, you're a fucking dork.

yeah a dweeb is like you're i feel like if you're a dweeby person it is within you it's not a phase do you see what i'm saying by the nature versus like nurture almost like think like you're born with it yeah versus this is going on for way too long i know i think it's fascinating though

Because now we know when you're talking about something, what you mean. That makes sense. That was the first time that you've given me. It's the first time I've made sense all day. Quantifiable information about what those things mean. That was very well put together. But I was put on the spot. So I was really having to come up with my definition.

right here now it was great i've never had to tell somebody what a dweeb was before so god i'm stressed out now damn i'm like sweating anyways not an insult to jill It's just an observation. Jill is a dweeb. You know what I'm talking about, though, right? In these talking heads, she gets very like... Anyways. Okay, so now we're just watching her and Boob driving to go take her test. And then we have yet another Michelle talking head. And she says when she was little and she might get an owie.

we were just god sidestep i was not allowed to say owie as a kid if i said it my mom was like no why we were supposed to call it a sore are you serious my mom hates the word owie i mean i don't love it either But it's also a little kid thing. Like, I feel like, yes, it's something you grow out of. But that's so weird to be like, you're not allowed to use this term. It's called a sore. That doesn't even make sense. Now I'm mad at your mom.

But yeah, so I was not allowed to say owie. So now I'm saying it. That sounds like dweeb behavior. She might get an owie. She could be the drama queen. It could be a cut that anyone else would have gotten it. They would have just gone, oh, I need a Band-Aid. And Ginger would be like, oh. If I don't get a Band-Aid and she does like the the back of the hand to the to the forehead like damsel thing. Like so Michelle's like acting this out. If I don't get a Band-Aid.

She says it's the way she expresses herself, but she practices self-control. I'm so tired of hearing about self-control. She practices self-control in situations that's different than the way that the others might do it. And she's spunky. I think she's kind of endearing when she was nervous. When, when Femi was driving. Yeah. And she was sitting in like, uh, Lego hair was sitting in the middle. Um, it was like a single cab, like.

truck like f-150 that was that was manual yeah um so lego hair was sitting in the middle with his legs to the right so famie could grab the shifter and she was like gunning it over the hills and stuff and watching ginger be nervous and make jokes was actually pretty endearing yeah you know yeah like i mean i don't like ginger and josiah so far are the front runners for personality jill has personality she's just a dweeb you know so anyways

i said dweeb back on dweeb i said dweeb to one of my friends recently and they're like god i'm gonna start using that word and they're like i never hear anybody say dweeb and i'm like it's a pretty good word yeah it feels like an 80s and 90s very forgotten word Dweeb. I challenge everybody to use it in a sentence this week. I've been listening to the Pod Meets World, Boy Meets World rewatch.

with kind of the three actors that are in it and there's a lot of verbiage like that and they reference because the first like the first two three seasons of boy beats world were like screaming nighties yeah if you look back they hold up But they just scream 90s. So yeah, that was definitely a word. Dingus. Dingus is another insult. Dingus for Minkus was a dingus? Yep. Let's see, where am I?

So Ginger went to get her driver's test. So they get to the place, and Ginger's getting ready to head out for the test. And it ends up being this guy, because they live in such a small area. This guy has done the test for several other... dugger kids previously and apparently in arkansas you can get your permit at 14 yeah i was and then you're not allowed to drive and alone until you're 16

yeah so I was thrown off by like because it's just so different here like you have to be 15 and well at least when I did it you had to be 15 and a half 15 and a half to get your permit and then you could drive but you could drive alone at 16 and there's other states where even at 16 you can't drive with certain other aged kids in the right but yeah so it threw me off because it's just different from what i'm used to yeah

because there was a point where they were showing ginger do something and i'm like wait how old is she like everybody looks like a baby to me because i'm an old man but i was like she doesn't look like she's like 16 and it's because she's not and like good Oh, no, it's fine. You want to finish your thought? No, that was it. Oh, OK. Here's the part that I do like, though. So the producer asked Ginger if she's a good driver and she goes, well, I can drive. Let's put it that way.

And he says, you're not good at it then? And she says, well, I don't know. It's whoever everybody else, it's whatever everybody else thinks that's riding with me. That makes me a good driver. if I'm a good driver to them, then I guess I am. So I just thought that was the point where she was just like, well, I mean, you could ask me, but like, it's about the people who ride with me. Yeah.

Which, again, is more of an answer than you'd ever get out of fucking Jana or something. So comparatively, yes, she does have personality. And then Ginger passes. And that's kind of the end of it. Yeah. Anything you needed to add? There was... You could tell because it was on... Because it was on screen and being recorded. Lego hair was being his normal awkward self. And he...

They open the little sliding window thing in the office and he's like, Ginger's here to take a driving test. And the guy was like, okay. uh you know go outside get in the truck you know turn it on and i'll be out there in a minute and ginger just immediately turns and starts walking out the door

She wastes no time. And you could tell that Jim Bob was going to try to go for that like motivational father moment on TV. Yeah, he reached for her and she was like out of his reach. So he was like, yeah, he was like, well, good luck. Uh, you'll do fine. I'll...

i'll be here when you're done yeah he's like i'm waiting right here it's like where else are you going she literally didn't respond at all and just walked out and i was like good on you girl and she was just like i went she even said like i wasn't really nervous and i was like yeah she just like he was like go outside and that

girl booked it like she was gone he said i'll be right here yeah where are you going jim pump she's got the car there was a weird moment where the the cop guy was like you know pay attention to the speed limit

He kept reminding her about reading the sign. What did that sign just say? And she's like, I don't know, what did it say? He's like 25 and she's like, okay. And then... there's a point where he was like the car behind you's getting kind of mad that you're going the speed limit but don't worry about it just keep going the speed limit it was the camera people yeah it was the camera people that were recording them take this drive so

She was like, yeah, he was. She's like telling the story in her talking head. And she's like, it was y'all. Yeah. Yeah. So then they get back. They get back to the lot. They pull into the parking spot and they're going through the, you know, the guy's signing, you know, the sheet. And then he like stamps it. And it's funny because there's. I don't feel like they open the windows or anything, so it's just Ginger and the cop guy in the truck.

And then I feel like Jim Bob ran over there and then nobody opened the window for him. He's just standing there. That's what it felt like because then they flipped to the next thing and it's just him. already standing at the vehicle like just waiting so i'm like how'd you do i think it's hilarious that he ran over and they were like dude we're good like we're we'll finish this without you

And then they open the window and he's like, how'd you do? And then you just hear like kind of muffled like she passed. And he doesn't know what to say. He looks at her and then he makes some comment to the cop of being like. You're a really good teacher. He didn't teach her anything. He sat in the car with her.

And, like, they drove around. But it's not like he was a driving instructor. I know. This wasn't a course. Awkward, man. He's trying to find something to say because he's so awkward. It's like, fill the space. Fill the gap. Say something.

always stupid like yeah because i feel like he's trying to be profound always come off being this you know motivational father figure and he's just so eloquent and you just you want to you want to do well by him because he's such a motivator and he's the mistake he makes is opening his mouth

always and i feel like it's the same kind of thing with the body language of the constantly putting the arms on their shoulders of the girls especially i mean he doesn't you'll see like with like the little boys he does it too but it's like the constant like placing of the hands on the shoulders it's such just like

I'm your dad and this is what I'm saying and like, oh, isn't this great? They're going to keep you in a place. Anyways, that's it for me. I think that is it for me. Okay, so take a small breaky break and then we'll be back with the deep dive.

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Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. So for today's deep dive since... The episode largely revolved around Ginger. Today's deep dive is also going to revolve around something that happened to Ginger roughly a year before this episode we just watched was being filmed. So we know that the Anna and Pest engagement.

Happened in June of 2008. The wedding, which is the beginning of next season, is in September. So we figure somewhere in between is when this driving episode was being filmed. And what we're about to talk about... is in july starts in july of 2007. so getting started so apparently uh lego and michelle had a habit of letting strangers or fans, into their home. And in Ginger's book, she wrote that they open their arms to everyone, even the most rabid fans. Okay.

and when did just for some perspective when did her book come out like a year ago okay like last spring of 2021 or something like may or something i don't know so a year ago and it was a book that she wrote like with her husband but Whatever. So a lot of times it was larger families that would reach out to them. And Michelle and Boob would invite them over for dinner. And Michelle would ask them a lot of times what they wanted to eat when they came for dinner.

And of course, most of the people requested tater tot casserole. Right. Because just from the specials, it had become their signature type thing or whatever. So Ginger even talks about how like... she and other people like they came to like they grew to hate tater tot casserole because she's like we had it so often because yeah it was something mom made before but then every time someone came over we're having tater tot casserole

But sometimes they didn't just come over for dinner. Sometimes these strangers stayed the night. Okay. Which is awkward. Yeah. It's totally weird. And I also feel like... outside of their religion like that's just a weird thing anyway and it almost feels like egotistical to be like oh we opened our house to these people so they could come and admire us yeah it's weird like yeah

So how do we know this? It's because Ginger wrote in her book, it wasn't that I minded giving up my bed to sleep on a couch or eating with strangers. Like, what the fuck? Okay, not only are you letting strangers sleep in your house, but that you're giving them your kids bed? And don't all your kids... sleep together in a like this dorm so it's like our is there strangers in the room in there with your kids well it's like they have a million couches downstairs so i'm sure they

shove all the kids put every kid into the bus outside or something like that or whatever but the fact okay this isn't this isn't like having your grandparents come and stay and you give them your room which

isn't that like such a trope in like every like 80s 90s movie it's like the grandparent like uh christmas vacation or 16 candles like my grandparents are coming now i have to go they're sleeping but now i have to sleep with my little brother like that's such like a trope but this isn't that these are fucking strangers

and you're letting them sleep in your child's bed because what other reason would she have to sleep on the couch if they weren't sleeping in her bed right because she literally says i not that i minded giving up my bed that's so fucking weird so in itself i'm just like that is already a big thing right but so it's like it's bad enough that you let your son that you didn't protect your daughters properly from your son

And after all of that that's happened, you're still going to allow fucking strangers into your house to spend the night and sleep. It boggles the mind. Like, I can't even believe they're so fucking stupid. Think of how many people don't even let their kids spend the night at other people's houses. Yeah.

and like you know my mom was very very careful i wasn't allowed to spend the night until i was much older and i always thought my mom was such a drag for it like you know like oh my god you're so protective and i'm like i fucking get it but then they're letting strangers at their house yeah wild

But anyways, Ginger says that for the most part, she slash they, they enjoyed it because they got to meet new people, which I'm sure was thrilling for them. And most of the visits she said, quote, were sweet times of fellowship. great gross yep and that but they did have a few odd visits one of those odd visits was when a family like started whining saying that their house smelled like bleach and ran around and started opening up windows in their house

Yeah, that's weird. Very weird. But it gets weirder. So the second instance is what we're going to refer to as the mystery of the stolen diary. Fantastic.

Are you excited? I am. I feel like I'm on an episode of Scooby Doo. So a college girl from out of state apparently had been kind of emailing back and forth with the family. And she told the Duggars that she watched the show and that she wanted to meet their beautiful family. So Jim Bob says that they thought that they could maybe, you know, encourage her walk with the Lord.

Oh, God. Because, you know, the ego again. Yeah. Remember, they're doing all this for ministry, of course. Yeah. So they invited her over for the 4th of July in 2007. Ginger says that whenever they had visitors over, that it became pretty much like a routine where they always gave a tour of the house. That was just the way it was.

so one of the boys she doesn't specify but one of the boys gave her a tour along with like somebody else that was there and she said nobody thought anything of it and nobody questioned the backpack that she had on okay She then accompanied them to the Springdale 4th of July rodeo parade. Again, they thought nothing of it. This is just one of a million strangers that are tracing through their home. What could possibly go wrong?

so that is until six weeks later roughly so just looking at a calendar and picking six weeks later that let's just say it's around august 15th but sometime in like mid-august Jim Bob gets an email that contains an eBay listing. The eBay listing was for Ginger's Diary. You want to take a guess how much they were listing it for? $12,000. You ready? $100,000. Wow. This ain't fucking Princess Diana. This is not Dolly Parton. This is not Madonna. But this is Ginger.

ginger which was even funnier because july 2007 so what we're watching right now is being filmed in july you know summer of 2008 this is happening in july of 2007 before they even have the show right so at this point these people are just that into them from the discovery specials so it's like they're not even you don't even and i'm saying no with air quotes right now guys

They don't really know the Duggars that... It's been five Discovery specials, like, once a year. Right. Like, so it's pretty... It's pretty interesting to me. So it's like, oh, let's tell... Number one, who's gonna... Who's gonna... cost who's gonna buy it anyway number two the cost and at that point they weren't anything so they're gonna be like this random 12 year old girl on a discovery special let's pay a hundred thousand dollars it's gotta be some hell of a diary

well ginger says unfortunately but she says that she knew that there was like nothing juicy inside well that was the point that i was going to make like how much are you gonna get from a like fundy doesn't get to get out in the world like girl's diary yeah it's all gonna be about my brother made me mad oh well so here's the thing She says that she knew that there wasn't anything juicy in it because when you have 762 siblings, you quickly learn not to write anything.

personal down which is kind of sad i mean i know we all run the risk of people reading it but it's like in her like you know like they cannot express their feelings in any form so someone who apparently saw the listing before it was taken down said that it go figure because the so the listing was one photo of the front of the book and then a photo of one page from inside just one page and this one page apparently the person that saw it before it was taken down said

Go figure. Mama's having a baby. Juicy. Right. And it had like hearts drawn all over the place. So Ginger in her book says that, you know, she was really wasn't concerned about the subject matter. But she specifically talks about how she was embarrassed of her handwriting. In fact, she actually says mortified. I was mortified. Mortified. So I'm quoting Ginger here. Ready? Girls are supposed to have pretty dainty cursive with eyes dotted with hearts.

Where do you think she learned that from? Exactly. Michelle writing judges with hearts over her eyes? It's like, oh, man, Jen, you got real close. You drew the hearts on the page. You just didn't get it over the eyes. Like, oh, you're so close. Not girly enough. Nope. So she said instead her handwriting looked like a 10 year old boy, which I mean, I can relate to. I have god awful handwriting as I sometimes can't read my own notes in here. That's how bad it is. It is a little rough.

it's it's terrible yeah i don't have patience i told him i figured out what it was doing these notes sorry guys sidestep sorry i realized i've always just known i had shitty handwriting But it's while working on my notes for the podcast that I realized that while I'm writing, I am like so far ahead of what I'm writing that I just get impatient. And I don't even think I like finish half my words or it's more than cursive. It's just mushed.

tim like tim will i've been like what did i say here and he's like i have no fucking clue anyway it's not even like shorthand it's like you're you're halfway through the word And then you start spelling the word that you're thinking rather than what you're writing. Yeah. And it's like I have my own coding system that even I can't crack. Apparently. Yeah.

I told her she just needs to learn shorthand like a madman secretary so then she could make like really, really, really fast notes. I just get so annoyed with writing because it's not fast enough. But I don't think... i don't think shorthand would be fast enough i still feel like you would my brain is just a million places anyways so she said her handwriting looks like a 10 year old boy and i doubt her handwriting is bad as mine

So anyway, so then they're racking their brains trying to figure out who possibly could be behind this. So they look at the seller, but the name isn't listed. But they did, however, show the location of the cellar as being listed as somewhere in Wisconsin. And one of the Duggar boys... Got his little hearty boy going. He got his little brain going. This little Duggar hearty boy remembers that the girl from the 4th of July was from Wisconsin.

okay so then jim bob starts going searching back through their emails with her and what do you know her address is matches the location the town in wisconsin so lego emails her and He tells her that she needs to return it or they would prosecute. So here's their son. He can molest people. Nothing. Stolen diary. Straight to prosecution. Well, I mean, they sent him to a program, right?

oh okay never mind we're good it was because the lust counselor wasn't certified that's what it was yep yep or they would that is a that is a deep cut from the early days of this podcast But they told her that they still cared about her and they forgave her. She actually ended up replying like right away apparently and that she said she would send it back and said, don't worry, I didn't read it.

So you post a picture. I'm sure you didn't read it. Of course not. Like, it's so juvenile. Don't worry, I didn't read it. So they did actually receive the diary back a few days later, along with a... 15 minute DVD of her apologizing. Oh god. That sounds like... sitting through that? What would you do for 15 minutes? That sounds terrible. It's like the filibuster. Very close.

So Jim Bob says, end quote, the experience provided good lessons to teach the children. First, that you can't trust everybody. And second, that we need to forgive others before they even ask. so a lesson to your kids but not a lesson to yourself about letting strangers into your house so they do end up saying that we realize we should be like more cautious but it's just like but it's still a lesson for the kids not that you guys deeply fucked up by letting weirdos into your house

Anyways. When your entire life is like raising children and then also being the school.

and then also but like being you're playing all these roles like everything has to be a lesson that's why you're standing in in a house that's half built going perpendicular because you're like how do i teach them something because they're not going to get actually accredited teachers to teach them there's no other life lessons there's no like dealing with like other like this is their only opportunity yeah so originally when i had this

deep dive in mind i was like oh i guess it's gonna be i thought it was gonna end there i'm like okay this is gonna be more of a light snorkel we're gonna have an early week but wait there's more i dug some more So let's talk specifically about this little diary thief themself. Okay. So she once had a website where she posted photos. She talked about the Duggars and various things, and she even posted photos from her visit.

The website is gone, so I never got to see it. There weren't any screenshots or anything like that. It's just reading other people talking about having seen it. They said the pictures were really shitty, but you could tell that she had actually been there. So that website is gone. But she also was a frequent poster on the Duggar section of Television Without Pity, which is where Alice posted. And then also frequently on Free Ginger website.

So on Free Ginger, now we're just going to switch to talking about Free Ginger. So over the years, she had several different accounts. She had Unfabulous 81.

Miss Mandy 1981 and Free Ginger 81 okay so I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say she was born in 1981 and her name is Amanda yes this reminds me of like the intel 1988 password of test and he was like well it's not me oh well and then it's like all his passwords he's been using for 12 fucking years yeah so yeah i'm pretty sure amanda was born in 1981

So then I went back on Free Ginger and I was able to see some stuff from her Free Ginger 81 account that was created June 6th of 2008. And the last post was in July 2011, which we will get to. Now, as far as the other accounts, I couldn't really find much except for one that was a suspected to be her, but not really confirmed. So I kind of just moved on from that. But we know those other three to be her.

First, let's talk about this Free Ginger 81 or Unfabulous 81. Let's talk about her recollection of going to the house for 4th of July. So she says in the morning, she had pancakes with them for breakfast. And she said, end quote, I could taste the sweat and blood from the girls waking up at dawn to make it for like 30 people. Kidding, they were good. Oh, I feel like I already know her personality. So she says it was her.

and um like one other family that was kind of like joining in addition as like the guests okay she said that she saw jim bob's dad and then she said she saw a lady doing laundry and she put in parentheses like i think her name is nanny which we know is nana

um which she specifically mentions thinking it was kind of weird because nobody else was doing any kind of work and then there's just this lady doing their laundry right um and then she does mention that she saw a contractor the contractor guy from the special which would be clark wilson

So I'm wondering if that other family that she's saying joined was the Wilson family. I'm just putting two and two together, but that's my guess, but it doesn't really matter. So then she says that going to the parade was a blur, but that she was... Quote, fascinated by the fact that I was sitting next to Ginger and she didn't get on one of those horses and ride away free. Then she said that she tried to give pests her used gum.

And then he said to her that he didn't want ABC gum. And she talked about how she was so happy that he knew what that meant and that the younger kids really enjoyed that joke. So she's giving Pester used gum. Or attempting. So that's really all I could find about her visit. I'm sure there was more on some of those deleted accounts.

You might try the Wayback Machine. I tried. I had trouble. Really? I did. I did. Damn. I did. And other people had stuff from before that were screenshots that are now gone. Believe me, I looked for hours. I spent more time on this deep dive than... i really originally planned um but yeah believe me i tried wayback machine so

I'm sure there was other stuff in those deleted accounts, but yeah, it just sounds like over the course of time, like various ways in there, she liked to just interject little things about having been there, right? Right. So now let's shift to her being a creepy McCreeperton. Oh, God. As if stealing a diary isn't enough. I was going to say, this is a college girl obsessed with... fundy family in arkansas but here's oh i guess i'll get that later okay so then on june 19th

2008 the free ginger 81 account posts uh puts up a post and it's titled the duggars are in new york plus how to get autographs exclamation point fun read oh shit i gotta get my you want to pause it for a second i gotta get my phone ready i forgot that i was and we're back okay so fun read she says I have autographs of the Duggars. How, you may ask? Well, Michelle wrote on the back of my photo she gave me. Yes, I did get free gifts when I went, but I also bought gifts for them.

I also got a thank you card from Michelle when I sent them a Christmas package. Funny enough, I got a thank you because I told them that they never care that people send them stuff free. No thank yous. I guess they got the hint. Here we go. Here's where it gets good. Ready? Here's where it gets good. Another way I got their signature is by using signature confirmation when sending them packages and letters.

That way someone has to sign it. I do it because I want to see if their writing is as neat as Michelle's. LOL. I have two Jim Bobs. She acts like this is a fucking, like, Disney autograph book. Like, I have two. Like a collector card. I have two Plutos. I have three Minnie Mouse. Yo, I got that Jim Bob Ricky card. I have two Chimbobs, one Jana, and my all-time favorite, in all caps, Ginger. She seems obsessed with Ginger. I was so extra O's.

Excited that Ginger answered the door and signed for my package. LOL. Anyway, yeah, I think it is fun to see who answers the door and whatnot. I have no life.

I mean, I am single and I live in a very small village. What else is there to do for fun? If anyone else wants to start collecting signatures, we can trade. LOL. I can't trade my gingers, though. Well, no. fucking creepy man so then through some of the comments like one person says you are a psycho and she says oh i know and i all caps love it Better being a psycho than a Duggar is my slogan. Smiley face. People dig in harder. And then another person says.

I'm just stating the obvious. I think it's weird that the morons on this board are all patting you on the back as you actually stalk people. You may as well be sniffing the undies in the Duggars underwear drawers because it's already gone way past normal for you, hasn't it? I've seen you around FJ81 and I know a lot more than you think. Wow. Oh God. So fucking weird, right? To like go through it. And I, I kind of, I read that part exactly, but then.

how the title says they're in New York she literally talks about how she sent a package to where she thought they were like in New York and was hoping that Josh would sign it because then it would prove that Josh's wedding was going to be in New York and she was bummed out because John David signed for it and said oh my god Like it's just fucking wackadoodle shit. Yeah. Okay. So then also in June of 2008 from the Free Ginger 81 account.

She posted something titled, Tales from an Ex-Duggar Fam. Okay. Now, I can't see the original post because... They deleted it, but I can kind of, you know, figure out a gist of things based off of people's comment replies, right? And it just sounds incredibly like attention seeking. Go figure. Lots of people saying things like, please don't go stay and tell us everything and asking some other more specific questions as well.

So, it definitely gives the whole, like, I'm taking my ball and going home, like, type five, but... But you have one last chance to ask me questions before I go because she's some sort of like Duggar expert who knows everything because she went to their house once. Yeah, because she once. Yeah. So that's definitely the vibe of it, but I can't see any of the things that...

She actually posted. Correct. Well, then I think I figure out why all of the posts are deleted by Free Ginger. And that's because an account named Miss Brooklyn pops in and she says... and let me pull this up okay she says um and she's saying this in february 1st of 09 so it's sometime after okay so there was june 08 when this was originally so this miss brooklyn is popping in february of 09

Okay. What this young lady does not say is that while she was in the Duggar home, she stole Ginger's diary and later tried to sell it on eBay. she claims a friend of hers tried to sell it but does admit to stealing it this might have something to do with the fact that they no longer speak to her I'm in no way defending the Duggars about anything they do but come on stealing a teenager's diary is just blech yep and then after that people's comments are oh

Yeah, that makes the snubbing more sense. So obviously in her original post, it was like ex-Dugger fan because they're snubbing me or something, you know, something along those lines. I'm done being a fan. I'll never shop at this store again. Great. Okay. That's exactly what we wanted. Yeah. So then, on July 3rd, 2011, a totally different person brings up the subject.

Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot one thing. After that, where they delete all that, the free Ginger account pretty much goes quiet. There's nothing else really happening with them. Right. Now we're fast forwarding to July 3rd, 2011. And a completely different person brings up the subject of the stolen diary because of the Jim, Bob and Michelle had just released their second book one month prior in June of 2011.

Okay. So their second book, they do address that this happened. And so up until this point, it had not been... talked about by the Duggars themselves and the only way it had been revealed was through it sounds like mandy had admitted to it on her website and then she'd gotten rid of her website and then people had figured out that all these accounts were her and then miss brooklyn outed her and then she was like oh shit and like leaves right okay

So the only way people even knew about it before was from Mandy herself revealing it. Yeah. So someone comments that the thief had threads about her stay with them and they linked to those. those threads on free ginger okay so miss brooklyn pops back into the thread and she says that she suspects that the diary thief is still around but probably just under another you know like handle and lurking then suddenly those posts that that they had been linking to are taken down too

So people had seen them earlier that day, but then when people were going to it later, they're like, oh, now it's all gone. So confirmation that she is lurking. Mandy is somewhere. Yes. So this is years later and she's still watching and reading all this stuff.

right so then on july 4th 2011 so this is a day after the next day after this post exactly four years to the day that that girl went with them to their house so it's kind of poetic in a way a little bit right free ginger 81 makes a comment on the thread yo back here we go i'm coming out of lurking just this once Yes, the Duggars forgave me. Yes, I can't forgive myself. Yes, I am slash was emotionally disturbed. Yes, I was an idiot to do what I did. I was a major jerk.

When I went to the house, I had no intention of stealing anything, in all caps. It happened like five minutes before I left. I don't know what came over me. This is why I needed counseling. I guess I wanted a part of them. The Duggars were very nice to me. I'm sorry I disobeyed their trust and hurt them. That cannot be forgiven. I would just like to live in peace of this, and I know I can't. I had a rough childhood, and the Duggars seemed perfect.

Part of me wanted to be like them. We talked for months before I went to their house. Miss Brooklyn, thanks. Because of you, I sought the help I needed. for not giving answers to the many questions all these years. I hope you all can forgive me in your heart, but I completely understand if you can't. I guess everyone will know the whole truth to why...

We'll never know the whole truth to why since I'm still trying to figure it out. I think I saw in the Duggars kids a childhood that I never had. If I could have been one of them for a day, I would have. I know that is so weird to think. I agree that I lurked too long just please understand I know I'm a jerk I know I was stupid and made a huge mistake part of me is glad the story was put in the book

I do not agree 100% with the Duggars lately. When I met them there was only TV specials and 16 kids. I think there were a lot of babies in four years. However, I think that maybe that is something the Duggars themselves have to think about. I also think Michelle and Jim Bob love their kids. I do wonder myself about the signup sheet also. Huh? I don't know what that means.

So please let it rest or if you have to talk about it, just remember I'm getting counseling and I am sorry. If I had a time machine, I would take it back. On why I was going to sell it, I had no money and wanted to get rid of it. Horrible to think. That was stupid. I was stupid. Please try to understand, but I know it will be hard for some.

I also don't go around stealing. This was the one and only time I had sticky fingers. I thought about leaving outside down by their house, mailing it right when I got home. I am not perfect. I claim not to be. I made a mistake. I am sorry. You all can send me messages on here. No need to post on the board. I understand I was a jerk. Thank you for your time. Okay. So what's funny is from the posts I could see because I read everything that was posted by that Free Ginger account.

they definitely like snarked but then it was like you know like it's like this it's that weird obsession where she's like snarking but then was like i i do admit i wanted to kind of be that like you know yeah there's some stuff there there's some stuff going on yeah so that last comment um is the last we ever heard from her on that on at least on that account who knows what other accounts

they have or created or still have who knows that is the last knowing thing thing that we know from that person so i i couldn't help myself i did find out exactly who this person is okay um i won't get into that because you don't do that you know or like whatever but uh i did find their facebook and i was scrolling and scrolling and scrolling because if anybody knows like on Facebook when you're like

thank God she wasn't private. I was like, this is like the fucking lottery. Oh my God. And so, you know, I know everything that's going on in her life now and where she's at. And I was able to very much, very much confirm it was her. through things that was posted and some of her putting two and two together with some stuff and whatever so def definitely her and i said i was like okay let me just scroll and just kind of see what's going on

And if anybody knows scrolling on Facebook, it's like tedious because you're trying to work through all the bullshit to work back years and years and years. And you want to go fast. But if you get too fast. shit fucks up and it takes you out and you have to start all over again or if you hit it just wrong you go to the side and start all over that happened to me twice when i was trying to go fast so i was scrolling all the way back as far as i could because i'm like if i could see posts

from around the time that she went there, I will fucking die, right? So, I do have to say, this is a sad person. Like, it is. It's sad. Honestly, I'm like, I... I feel bad for this person. Yeah. So I'm scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. So remember, she was there July 4th, 2007. Her fucking Facebook ends.

on september 6th 2007 yeah missed it by two months because i'm like i would love to see what if she mentioned anything of it at all right um going into it but like there are posts on her feed in those days of like Jordan Micaiah is born blah blah blah blah or Josie was born or Josie is now two pounds four ounces so there's definite like keeping up with the family right and what's kind of funny though is reading their

Facebook presence versus free ginger presence. The total behind a keyboard. Don't change. Yes. So she was snarky and. name cally you know like kind of name called people and stuff like that like snarky on free ginger very catholic religious on her facebook and talks about church a lot and like all sorts of stuff

And I think what's interesting is she wasn't a young girl. So they call her a college student because she was in college. And I confirmed that via what was happening on her Facebook, right? Okay. She was 26 years old.

okay when this happened so she wasn't like this isn't like some like 18 year old kid like you know or like whatever so she wasn't exactly young but her um those early posts right before her facebook like ends so which i'm like did she delete those things from before or is that like the time yeah i have no idea but they were kind of sad like um let me i have it oh I do have it in here. Hang on one second. This one was in-depth. So on September 11th, 2007.

I guess I'll go, I'll start from the other way. So the very last one that was far back as we can see was September 6, 2007. And it says bored. September 7th, looking for a date. september 11th still in all caps looking for a date like and like it was a sad lonely person that needed something to latch on to yep and latched on to the duggars for whatever reason and is very Catholic still.

So it is very interesting that it's because you think the Duggars probably think Catholic people are terrible. That's probably why they're like, we can help her with the walk with the Lord because they're like, get her away from Catholicism. And they want to convert everybody fundy. right so save this poor girl from catholicism yeah so yeah so that is the story of the stolen diary man so she was wearing like a werewolf outfit

And then you pulled the mask off and it was Mandy. On Fabulous 81. And she was like, I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you, punk lady.

you're not a punk kid so no no i think it's all miss brooklyn miss brooklyn if it weren't for you miss brooklyn so i doubt miss brooklyn uh listens but if she does we'd love to hear from you miss brooklyn because you were the one who outed her oh and one thing I didn't I didn't actually write it down but I can talk about it a little bit so when she did gave that whole like

apology type thing like that i just read off somebody that i think must have been a mod on free ginger or something because on there it doesn't like it's not like reddit where it says mod next to it but i get the vibe he had to have been um so he was like so with this apology and you taking accountability, I take it the...

the legal action you threatened free ginger with yesterday uh you don't stand by that anymore and she was like no i'm sorry thank you no i didn't mean it and they and they were just like good because i want you to know you put this on a public forum so you have no grounds Like they were like going in on her and they were like, I hope you do get the help that you need because it is warranted. I mean, and then there's this other account that people say is her called Digger.

And I found posts from that account in 2012, which would have been after this apology. But because I couldn't. i can't say for sure it doesn't have the 81s mixed with it and like man you know what i mean like yeah i can't say for a fact people think it's her but that account was getting really nasty like and calling people like homophobic slurs and like people were like get out of here we don't like you you don't like us go nobody likes you know wow but again don't know that that's her

But yeah, so this one was a lot because I had to read through years of boards just to see if I'd find something that was worth it. And it's like I couldn't just like skip, skip, skip. I had to like read through all of it.

So that's the story. I know everything about her. Now I'm the creeper, my creeper. Look what you've done to me. So this was a little bit lighter this week.

no breakdowns the episode was uh a light was a very light one yeah um yeah it's fascinating like you assume that once you start getting into a limelight you're gonna open yourself up to kind of some more criticism or yourself up to i mean these days like we were talking about kind of like being behind the shield of a keyboard like you're gonna open yourselves up to like trolls and you know people that are just gonna

try to mess with you just for the sake of messing with you and you know yeah so i just i think the whole time in my head that i keep reminding myself i'm like this was before the show this was just like like when when we watch those specials I wouldn't have latched on. I feel like you can. It's easier for people at least. I'm just going to say to like latch on to something when you're watching them every week. Correct. On a quote unquote reality show again with air quotes. I can see how people.

feel a little bit more of like oh my gosh I feel like I know them but I'm like you watch these like really fast not in-depth discovery specials that were recycling the same shit and I'm like what I just soak interested that these were happening when this girl was like 20 to 25 you know and that she just like locked in on it so hard yeah it's just it's interesting she wasn't young

Anyways, wild stuff. So yeah, no tears for me this week. You guys got a break from that. Nothing too heavy, just a little bit of a mystery. I think Ginger's my favorite. You think so? Just because there's so many times that whether it's on purpose or not on purpose, she like low-key shuts Lego hair down and it cracks me up every time. Yeah.

like every time because whether she's doing it out of like actual kind of hidden disdain for her father or just out of her version of teenage angst I'll take it yeah all day watching her walk out of that little office to take her test when he was trying to like come here let's uh let's pretend like we have a moment where i'm motivating you like

watching her walk out was the greatest thing I've ever seen. She's just not having it. She's just like, yep, she's just doing her thing. Yeah, Ginger's my favorite. Got it. Okay, good to know. I was thinking about last week. when they were at the museum and Michelle was going on her crazy eyes diatribe about, uh, there's a creator and a plan. So like, I feel like when it's convenient, it's very easy.

For them to be like, well, God has a plan. Like, everything happens for a reason. Okay, so did the Josh stuff happen for a reason? Was that part of the plan? Yeah. Like, when he was getting sentenced and he got arrested, like, was that part of God's plan? But now they'll flip it, Tim. He's supposed to be Paul. He's going to be like Paul in prison. So there's always a convenient answer. Always. Yep.

So they just didn't see at the time that that was God's plan. Correct. But now they know that this is, you know, like there's just always something they can fucking say. There is no logical. There's no. arguing that with them for the sake of a better term i don't know because it'll always be either that's in the bible or that's part of the plan or we just don't know the plan and we just got to pray to god and we just got you know yeah yeah

It's plausible deniability. And that's one of my least favorite things on the planet. Yeah. Like, I hate that so much of the idea that you can be an asshole. And then if somebody either calls you out on it or. visibly does not take that kind of behavior, you can be like, oh, I was just kidding. No, you weren't kidding. You were waiting for a response to see whether they would acknowledge it and agree with it or push back.

And when there's pushback, you can be like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was just kidding.

But it's kind of like with the whole plan thing. Why do we do anything if it's all up to plan? Why do you make any decisions? I don't know. Why do you make any decisions? Why do you do anything? Why did you write those letters to the judge if... if part of god's plan was good like yeah i don't know i don't know when when i was religious i still had thoughts like this even though i felt like i was running my life to a a faith um

But I always thought about like the driving thing. It's like if you're so sure that like 100% God is protecting you in every moment. Or in control. Yeah. Let go of your steering wheel and close your eyes. Yeah. And that was something that I hated. And not for the fact that it cracked the armor of my faith. But I agreed with that question because I hated when people had that other mindset of like, nope, everything's planned. You have no free will. You don't make choices. Everything is laid out.

for you well see well that's what's funny is growing up in mormonism though it's all about you have agency god gave you agency god gave you choices so that is kind of like the difference i feel like i will say i do feel like growing up in Mormonism there was not as it wasn't as deeply like they didn't really focus so much on the plan like they did say it did come up but like I feel like I hear that from a lot more other

yeah religions so it's like they were really focused on because of adam after adam and eve we were given agency and we all have choices yeah Why is there certain parts of Mormonism that sound wackadoodle and then other parts where you're like, that actually sounds like semi-logical? Like even within the paradigms of you being a religious person. What's the old saying? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Yeah. Because I was speaking to one of my friends that...

Mormon and we were talking like her views on stuff are very progressive for traditional Mormons that I've grown up with and I grew up like a spitting distance away from like a mormon church so um i grew up with a lot of mormons when i was going like elementary school high school and there was some of them were fine and they were just kids and then some of them were like

hardcore, pious, like, religious folk. You know what I mean? And so talking to this friend that I have, like, she's very much like... What other people do doesn't affect my life. And I have a way of running mine. And that's the type of Mormon I was not allowed to be.

a semi-worldly Mormon you were not a lot like it was my dad it was like this is how it is and that is it right right yeah and I feel like I feel like she's a good example of being able to be in that faith but then also have your own mindset like you're not just a mindless drone of this overarching

religious ideal you know that's where i feel like there is a more modern type of religious person these days i feel like in the sense that there are some like the new the new type of being able to be like what my dad would call picking and choosing Non-denominational. You find it all, but you believe it all or you believe not. You're supposed to just believe it all. Correct.

like yeah or not giving a fuck what other people do like what the fuck does my belief have to do with you i don't give a shit yeah like i just truly at the end of the day i have no problems with anybody practicing anything they want to practice Don't push it on others and don't foster dangerous things like this was, you know, protecting.

uh you know abusers and all kinds of that's the problem like but if you could just actually practice your faith and you're not um fostering and also like protecting like you know these bad things then go go on with your bad self but the second you are doing any of those things yeah that's when there's an issue yeah well like there's a one of my favorite comedians is bill burr and he was on like a

on a morning news thing in like Cincinnati or wherever he was performing that night. And he made a joke about the Catholic church when like a lot of that stuff was coming out. And they were like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. I mean, don't you think a joke about the church has taken it a little bit too far? And he looks at both of them. He goes, don't you think what they did, what they did took it too far? Like you're.

You're getting on me because I made a joke and they harbored sex criminals and then just moved them around and tried to hush the victims up. Like, come on, man. And actually, find me a religion where there hasn't been something like that happening. Like, for real. But I don't even know how we got on this topic. Anyways, I do have to close with one thing. So we are nearing the end of season one in two different ways. There's one episode left of...

17 kids and counting so the end of their actual season season yeah um because you know we're combining specials with this whole thing for one season so we're gonna we're deciding that we're gonna call that the end of our podcast season one So we've decided that for one week in between before we end up starting the next season of the show, we're going to do a like kind of recap-y talk about...

a state of the podcast yes there you go um kind of just talk about where we're at with things you know whatever um we'll kind of see how that goes but then we figured we would also do a q a so if you guys have so we have this week and the next week so we have two weeks before we'd end up recording it if you guys want to go ahead and send us any questions you might have so it could be

about the show it could be about how we do the podcast i mean just anything you feel like asking about mildred yes mildred of course of course you posted a video of me at work If you have any food-related questions, I can answer those. I'm an executive chef of a hotel. Yes. So, yeah, if you just have questions for us in general, if it's how we do things, whatever.

Just whatever you can think of. I'm almost afraid. I'm like, what if we get like two questions? And then I'm like, you know, Stephanie from Humana Humana wants to know. You're afraid of getting too many questions and not enough questions. I'm afraid we won't get enough. And I'm like making. them up and i'm like she wants to know what it is that you guys do for the mail um so my idea is if you can you can send them to dm if like you have no if email is absolutely not an option for you but

Email probably preferred only because I can put them into a folder. I can organize them more and it might be easier for me to like copy and paste them onto a page where I can use less paper to like print them out and stuff. Correct. I'm thinking of the organization of it. So go ahead. And email us any of your questions at digginguptheduggars at gmail. Then, of course, if you need to send it via...

DM you can, digging up the Duggars pod on Instagram. The only thing about that is your messages get mixed in with like your story replies and things get messy. pretty quickly so it's just more likely to get missed so if you could email it to us and I was actually thinking if you don't mind if you don't want us to say your name let us know

But if you're good with us saying your name, give us a thumbs up on that. And if you're willing to say where you're listening from, I thought that would be cool. That'd be cool. Just to be able to be like, oh my gosh, we got someone from here. It's just kind of fun when you hear where other people are at. We have had a couple new countries appear. What was... An impromptu mini commercial for Anchor.

The Anchor app has it where we can look at our... Don't do this. They're not going to give us money for this if we don't insert it as a segment. Can't give the milk away for free. Jeez. But there is a list that tells us where people are listening from. We've added... Barbados, Singapore, Portugal, and Curacao. Oh, very interesting. So we're getting some Caribbean flavor there. Some expats living down there that's a Duggar fan. Funny. It's everywhere. Yeah.

so yeah if you would just like to say where you're from your name if you'll let us and then you're like question it'd be a lot of fun so we got two weeks before we would record that right so yeah we'll remind you again next week too just in case you know we only have like three questions or something okay so that's it for me anything from you no i'm i am the selfish pinata

All right. Well, I'm going to be the unselfish pinata. You can be the selfish one. The bags of candy inside of me do not have names on them. I want those kids to fight. You know what makes me mad? Do you remember when I got you that pinata ornament for Christmas? Yeah. I just got rid of it. Really?

We should have kept it and we could have labeled it unselfish pinata and put it on our Christmas tree this year. Fuck, a missed opportunity. God damn it. I think I got rid of it because you told me you weren't that into it. If you guys don't know, real quick before we sign off. Here we go. We're going on forever today, aren't we?

Whitney is a Christmas aficionado and she loves a good theme. I'm a slut for a theme. How many Christmas trees do we have in our house? We have five. We have five Christmas trees. And I don't just mean a bunch of minis. Correct. There's a man cave one.

That was the new one last year. With appropriate ornaments, all boy-related ornaments that Whitney doesn't want to have out where the public can see them. They were on our tree for fucking years. We've been married for, what, almost 11 years? Get out of here with that.

I allowed them on our tree for years. Now I just don't have to allow them. I'm kidding. I buy you all these ornaments. What are you talking about? You heard it here first, folks. I buy you every fucking one of those ornaments. So last year he got a caveman.

caveman caveman tree a man cave tree with a mario star yes topper and i love it we have a dining room tree that is all food and like beverage related then we have our main tree that has a lot of like our more personalized stuff from our childhood things from like travels and our wedding stuff why am i talking about this um and then we have our my vintage tinsel tree because i'm a

obsessed with the 60s um and then we have with the working color with the coloring wheel it spins and everything and it has like the glittery base The music box bass as well. Oh God, I can't wait. And then Mildred has her own like four foot pink tree that has all cat. ornaments on it yeah we have like a little can of like sardine ornament ones that look like her aristocats yeah

God, people are like, this is more than we asked for. I just love Christmas. Five fucking trees. So this year, oh, and the tree that's in the dining room, why am I still talking about this? The tree in the dining room is actually our year-round tree in the rumpus room. And I decorate it for the various holidays. But then when it comes to Christmas, it moves into the dining room and the bigger tree comes out for Christmas and it becomes the dining room tree.

I think we're just from Arizona and we're so tired of it being the summer that we are dreaming of December. Oh God. I'll even fucking just take Halloween. Good God. Anything to get me out of this. All right. Send us those questions. Sorry, guys. If you're on Apple.

We would love for you guys to rate us, leave a, leave a review. If you like what you're listening to, it helps us out, you know, kind of work that algorithm. So when Whitney posts those really amazing visuals from the episodes, we'd love. for you guys to like and comment on there it is awesome talking to you guys and being able to kind of just talk shit about the funny things that Whitney posts so um yeah thank you for listening to my five trees

That'll be the name of the episode. My five trees. All right, guys. Have a good week.