Episode 10 - Four Frowny Faces

Mother is believing. At least I have a husband, you know. Does anybody here believe it? We are from Arkansas, no? All right, so episode 10, that makes this the Jedidiah episode. So he's the twin, but he's the older twin. So he's number 10 in the line. um but today we're not going to i don't current events we've been kind of starting things with like some current events the current events are actually the deep dive today so we're able to kind of go straight to the episode for right now

So this episode is called When Big Families Collide. And this is where we're introduced to the Bates family for the first time. The Bates family, for people who are the Tims in this situation who don't know all these things, the Bates family, you're actually going to see them several times over the course of the show. So this isn't a one-time deal. They come in about every season or so. And they actually had, TLC actually gave them their own show at one point.

And it was called United Bates of America. But if I remember correctly, it was only one episode. Or I mean season. I'm sorry. Not episode. I'm sorry. I said that wrong. One season. I don't think it was even two. I think it was just one season. And then after that, they were on a Christian, like a small... christian network like tbn it's it's called oh shit what's the name of it oh my god i totally i just blanked on the name of it but um but it's called bringing up baits

And it actually ran from 2015 up until very recently it got canceled. Oh, wow. And it's kind of along the lines of the whole lost season that we'll talk about later on. Okay. 19 kids and counting where there was an entire film season and it just never aired and

Do you want to let us know why it wasn't aired? It's only speculation at this point. But we'll get into that probably sometime in the future. But speculative. But I just kind of wanted to point out that this family also has their own TV show.

But they never quite hit the same level of the Duggars. Duggars aren't mainstream. I mean, the rest of the world doesn't know the Duggars the way we know the Duggars. So we can't claim that they're like, the Duggars are like... celebrities but they're they have some some form of notoriety right yeah uh the baits i would say didn't ever hit that because of being on that small christian network and not like a regular cable network okay but um is it up is

is it up tv fuck i can't remember anyways moving along so that's just a little background about the baits so the baits are coming to visit the duggars for two full fucking weeks yeesh and we meet the parents

And they are Gil and Kelly. Mm-hmm. And they've got that Tennessee accent. Yep. So apparently Jim Bob and Gil, they met at, you know, a men's conference where you're learning how to be a better authority and father and... all that stuff and then of course the families go figure got to know each other at the same homeschool conferences that they meet everybody in their life at so the families became friends and then

They're very similar to the Duggars size-wise. So at this point, it's 17 and one on the way for Michelle and then Kelly. has 16 kids and she has... one on the way so she's one behind and they actually find out that kelly is pregnant at 4 a.m the day that they're arriving like at a gas like they stop at a gas station in arkansas and she takes a pregnancy test the whole family just is like

It's just like the way these parents just like take pregnancy tests and announce it to the children. It's just so weird. Anyway. There's a talking head with her and Gil. And she has her head in profile because she's speaking. She's like. Looking and smiling politely at him like they all do. They all have the adoring gays. And Homegirl has Cruella DeVille cheeks.

And I'm talking about like the cartoon. Really? The way that Cruella was drawn in 101 Dalmatians, she had very sharp... cheekbones i don't remember kelly having that sharp of a bone structure and i remember turning to the side and i just put she has cruella cheekbones ouch oh interesting i'll have to see these are the things i don't know it's funny how we both pick up on different things Don't snuggle me, Kelly. I don't want to get any cuts on my face. So...

The family gets there and Michelle is giving Kelly a tour of the whole house. They end up giving the boys room to the entire Bates family. So that's where they're all going to be staying in all of their bunk beds. And there's like two bathrooms there or whatever. The girls, right? No, the whole family.

Oh, OK. The whole family staying there because they're sending the Duggar boys to go live in the tour bus. Correct. Yeah, that's what it was. And they're sending the whole the whole Bates family is just going to stay in that boys dorm, basically, that they call them. I did find it kind of funny because their oldest daughter, Bates girl, Michaela, she actually mentions how Kelly did most of the packing. And I'm like, huh. Yeah.

Funny how Michelle does none of the packing. She actually pointed out Kelly Jo herself did it. But she says that they did help their partners to get ready. So I imagine that their version of the buddy system is their partner. Correct. But from everything I looked up, it sounds like they have kept their little partner system way more on the DL.

So I can only imagine it's probably because they're like, oh shit, the Duggars got so much shit for theirs. They just kind of kept that more on the down low. They really didn't highlight how much the older siblings were. Right. We're helping out. There was one point where they were like, oh, blah, blah, blah. The Bates family. And then they.

They put like a canned, like psycho style scream. And I thought that was very funny and low key. Another thing I didn't notice. Yeah. Like they went through, they were showing all the kids. I love the fact that they didn't name them all. with the same starter letter like the Duggars. They have a tiny bit more of an identity. Yeah. I also feel like it makes them a little bit less creepy. A little bit, yeah. A little bit less culty. Yeah.

But yeah, so when they were done, they were like, yeah, that's the entirety of the Bates family. And then you hear a...

Like a scream in the back. I didn't even notice. I was like, somebody's low-key thinking they're real clever. Well, I told you, they call TLC the original snarkers because they throw in those little things. Yeah.

So then after that, it cuts to a scene of Michelle watching Jana plan the full two-week menu. And Michelle is like, well, you know, Jill can make her minestrone soup. She likes to make that. But you never hear... her doing anything so once again just kind of funny how much it's the girls have the handle on things yet again correct and then jill even says feeding that many people is not that hard because we're used to it i mean what's a few more

So these girls are unfazed by the fact that there's like 37 fucking people in their house right now. There was a point where Kelly and Michelle were talking to each other and I think Michelle was showing them like the laundry room or something. And like their voices were so much like repressed passive aggressiveness. It was rough. It was rough to listen to.

I still feel like Michelle's voice is a million times. I'd rather listen to Kelly all day than Michelle. I'll take her Southern, like, you know, you know, like little like mama voice over like. Michelle and her like creepy sappy sweet like yeah no thank you because I think with that accent it makes it makes it feel like it's just

Kind of the way they talk in the South. I would agree. Some people were saying that in general, Kelly just gives off more warmth. Some of it I do think has to do with the accent. But she just... She doesn't seem quite as fake to me as Michelle. I don't know how it comes off to you and just this first time ever seeing them, but I feel that she's a little bit more genuine. Yeah, I agree.

So then it cuts to like a big montage of like all the kids just like running around playing like crazy. And there's like various voiceovers from Michelle and Gil saying how, you know, they have kids like every kid almost has like a. kid of the other family of the same age right so there's like a friend for everyone and it's a big party and then of course boob has to go into a whole thing where he's like well homeschool kids have more of an opportunity to you know make friends

and he's always trying to sell that they make more friends I'm like oh because you go to a conference once a year suddenly you have more friends but his emphasis was also on and then they they interact with people with other ages And not just their age. And yeah, so I'm like, people can...

They should know because Josh is very adept at that. I also pointed out that Josh wasn't in this episode a lot until the very end. Yeah. And I'm like, it was probably better that they didn't bring him around a family of more girls. Yeah, exactly.

so then there's this funny scene out on the porch of some boys like zooming by on a skateboard and then you just hear joy like in the back like it kind of cuts like it was clearly not meant to be like a huge part like seeing it cuts away really quickly but you hear joy say what's his name and it's just funny to me because i'm like it could have been her fucking brother and she probably wouldn't know joy it's jeebus it was a bates boy but it's like

They're trying to play it off like they all know each other so well and they're like, the fuck is his name? Who was that? They don't even know each other in their own family. Let alone 16 more old people. There's fucking 37 people here. Yeah.

No, like 40, because then you add in Grandpa, Grandma Duggar, and Amy, and there's fucking 40 people there. Yeah. You could just tell her, that was your brother Jeffrey, and she'd be like, oh, okay. So then it goes to... You know, they don't do a ton of talking heads with individual Bates kids, and it's the same ones over and over. So Nathan Bates gets the most camera time, I've noticed. And...

The interview, he says how he thinks that the Duggar family is great, and they have a lot in common, and then he says that they're great role models. Yep. Oof. Might want to rethink that one later on, Nathan Bates. And then it's OK. So then they're interviewing Gil and Gil is talking about like the size of their family, basically. Right. So Gil says that one day Kelly told him that they should just trust God with how many kids they have. And he was like, you can't do that.

We'd have 20 kids. And I'm just like, just stop right there, Gil. Just stop right there. And he's like, we would have more than we could afford. And I'm like, you're on the right track. You're on it. You're almost there. But then, of course, he follows it up with. Well, then he decides to study the Bible. And, of course, he's looking for evidence to back up his point of view. But he's saying he says he's looking for stuff that would back him up to not have so many kids.

sure you were yeah um but that through reading stuff he just came to the conclusion that god said children are a blessing so he said in the beginning he didn't believe it but now he believes it which that whole fucking thing is so fucking stupid like the bible was really gonna be like

where you're going to find them talking shit about having kids like do you think that there was going to be like a john 24 7 kids i like what do you think they were gonna fucking say so then It's going to say, have as many kids as you want because you can potentially get a TV deal.

Amen. Amen. It's like last week how they said that the Bible has no mention of dating. Like the fucking Bible was going to mention dating. Yeah. It's such a stupid, weak excuse to be like, oh, well, this was in the Bible and this.

wasn't like everything's in the fucking bible yeah it's just cherry picking and i will say like even when i was involved in church uh catholic church i'm mexican um The thing I appreciated was I don't feel like either of the priests that we had working there were like, nope, everything about this book is 100% applicable and it's a story and you have to go by the letter.

Like Father Frank, who was my favorite, he was such a nice guy, always talked about that. He's like, it's a loose idea of kind of like themes, of lessons to learn. None of the things that are written at this point are going to be applicable to our life these days. And they do. And they say that this fits. You know, they look up these certain things to reinforce their ideas and then say that this is left out. But like.

Okay, you're saying dating wasn't in the Bible, but the Bible also didn't mention going on sibling double dates to abuelos and you did that. Like, does every fucking thing you do have to be recorded in the Bible as a yes or a no? Hold on, where do you want to... Where do you want to go for a date tomorrow? Let me flip through my Bible here. Okay, cool. It says that we're going to Golden Corral. There you go. What book is that in?

On the eighth day, God created the Golden Corral. The Book of Chocolate Fountains.

okay so then um the next scene is when cousin amy arrives famy famy is here and i just crack up looking at her because her outfits were either at this time so fucking embarrassing are either everything i actually wore or everything i wanted to wear to wear yeah and in this particular episode she's wearing like a thick red headband and i'm dude i was a slut for a fucking headband man and i still to this day i'm like i should bring it back like

lauren conrad style i think about it but then i remember how bad the headaches were like i swear to god i think i had a headache for two years straight like my entire year entire junior senior year of high school i think i had a headache was one giant headache yep so anyways Amy's clothes, very relatable, unfortunately. As we go in, because she actually had a pretty big part in this episode. She did, yes. And I feel like they did a lot with her because she's the straight. She's the contrast.

Yeah, she's she's the one that you can relate to as you're watching this weird culty ass family. And you mentioned it to a couple episodes ago where you were like, I always felt like, oh, I could be friends with her. She's so cool.

Oof. right but that was her point yeah they know they needed to have some sort of at least one person and she kind of really is like the only person yeah that it's like okay here's like kind of this worldly person seemingly and see and she can integrate with them so they're not so bad like it's just it's a total tactic yeah and when you look at it with like fictional stories that are being told usually there's a there's a straight because you put yourself into their experience in the story.

And if there's outlandish things happening around you, you can still relate because you have this person who's quote unquote normal. Yeah. I feel like that's Femi Hardcore. Yeah, definitely. That's the role that she plays in all this. Right.

So then we go back to Gil and he's talking about how they do all that they can to protect their kids from, quote, awakening desires that could be awakened too early as a young person. Funny. Josh seems to be fully awakened at a very young age. And then we go back to Nathan again. Nathan Bates getting all this fucking... He's a fucking camera hog, god damn. I loved this quote because he threw the women in his family under the bus. Do you want to say it?

I don't have the exact quote. Do you have the exact quote? I didn't write down an exact quote, but are you just talking about how they don't have a computer? Yeah, they don't have a computer in their home. And he talks about that because of the dangers of pornography, they don't have.

one so the only people that go on it are his sisters and mom and that's at the public library they go to the library yeah so that's the only internet usage for them they don't have it in the home at this point which i think did you oh do you have something else on that No, I just, the way he was speaking is what made me feel sad. Because we talked either a couple episodes back about how when they do these talking heads, sometimes they...

you can see the kids kick into parroting the message that their parents have given them. And like, that's what the pornography part of that reminded me of because he was like, Oh yeah. You know, most of the boys don't really get on the internet though. You know, the, my mom and my sisters go.

to the library and do it you know but for the most part we don't have it in the home you know because of the great dangers of pornography yeah and it's like you i don't think he even understands like why that's a bad thing Yeah, it's just what he's told. Correct. So then it's really funny because then it goes to Michelle's talking head and she says, we found a computer that gave us protection that would really, really...

Lots of emphasis on that second really, by the way. She was like, really, really protect our family from any bad stuff coming in. Really, that's the only reason that we would consider having a computer in the home. Okay. How this dizzy fucking bitch can sit there with a straight face and say this is fucking delusional. Because Josh has a well-known porn addiction.

that shaved head and all these multiple times that he had to confess it in church now in church from what i understand he didn't necessarily say i'm having it was always like struggles and temptation but what it was was that he was accessing porn so the fact that she's sitting there saying this knowing damn well her kid has been looking at porn on their computers is right and then you're sitting here basically fucking preaching this great protection you have

crazy and that it's the internet that is the problem yes it's kind of like scream where it's like honey you think the danger is coming from outside of the house the danger is coming from in your house

Michelle on the intercom phone. But then the other thing is it's actually really funny. So there was an AMA on Reddit by a guy that his family grew up with the Duggars, right?

okay and he talks about how they were gifted like given their the Duggars gave them their old computers and when they got into those computers it had it was full of fucking porn so josh hadn't even correctly again deleted files or thumbnails and things like that so it's like even the whole people around you're like no that's not true we saw the porn on your computer so it's just i just think it's so fucking ballsy of them to be so fucking preachy

all the time like very pious what we know is actually happening is crazy so this so-called protection ain't working it ain't working

Then it cuts to a scene with Grandpa Duggar, which is pretty comical to me. He's pretty frank in it. And he says that at first he didn't like it. And he's referring to them having so many kids. Yeah. And he thought...

man, this is no good. And he said that... Brother? He called somebody brother like Hulk Hogan. Brother? He said, man, this is no good. And he said that Michelle's father also didn't like it either, but that they both... adapted to it yeah but he definitely ends it up he makes sure he rounds the whole thing up with but i don't want them to have any more this should be it yeah i

I pointed that very specifically out. Now, is Grandpa Duggar church adjacent? He is not churchy. Okay, he didn't seem like it. He's not. He wasn't wearing a polo shirt. He was not. He was wearing an athletic baseball cap. So, I mean, slutty, first of all. So yeah, I was just curious. Yeah, Grandpa Duggar is not part of the whole spiel. Okay. Yes.

Going back to the internet thing real quick, do you remember their part about TV? There was a part where Kelly Bates was talking about TV. Oh, she said that TV might take away from family time. Yeah, her... Her quote was like, you know, we always really wanted to be a close-knit family and TV would take that away. And the quote was... Especially if dad's sitting on the couch yelling at the kids like, hey, get out of my way. You're blocking the TV, which happens so often.

And the thing that it reminds me of them basing their beliefs off of these hypothetical situations that have never happened. Like, yes, that happens where your kids are messing around. You're like, hey, get out of the way. You're, you know, it happens.

it's so like amped up it's so like that's like if there's a tv that's going to happen oh yeah you're gonna be yelling at your children so much because of the tv yeah and it's getting they'll be paying no attention because of the tv and she's like now he comes home and plays a game

yeah so it's just it's because they seem to equate everything so quickly to like this will happen yeah it's not just like oh maybe a possibility it's just like yeah But I also feel like it's very, you see it in a lot of kind of extreme religions where there's a lot of fear mongering.

yeah definitely and you know the thing i wrote after like the pornography thing was like computers are so dangerous be afraid now do you need a modicum of like safety and care to make sure that nothing bad happens absolutely but it's the same thing with everything yeah You have to do that in your car driving. You need to have a modicum of awareness around you to make sure that that's safe. Everything's dangerous if you look at it that way.

But they just pick out certain things that this is a real bad thing and that's it. So TVs are bad. Computers are dangerous. Yep. Don't even think of wearing pants.

All right, so after Grandpa Duggar, it's... now the next day and they're getting ready to head to silver dollar city which is a christian theme park in missouri and i mean they go here a lot like this was actually the place that a couple weeks ago when i um where anna was seen wearing pants like that's how often

and that they just go to this place. And you actually see Jim Bob and some of the younger kids were there just a few weeks ago as well. So it's a place that they frequent because of its Christian background. Right. So they're getting ready to go. And did you happen to notice that all the older Duggar girls are wearing the exact same shirt that Ma Keller and Anna were wearing at the proposal?

That like polo with like the white collar. Yeah, white collar, pink polo, white striped. It's the exact same shirt. Like not even kind of similar. The exact same shirt. So it's like, is that like a fundie uniform? I had no fucking clue. I also pointed out that the... The Bates girls' dresses were a tragedy. So here's the thing. We're not calling the Duggar family fucking fashionistas at this point in time by any means. But...

They have moved on from the prairie dress look, right? The Bates have not. No. The Bates have like fucking Pollyanna hair. They are wearing... They're worse than anything the Duggars actually ever wore. It's unbelievable. They're... Home sewn by the oldest daughter, like full blown prairie dresses. But they're in like horrendous colors. They're like lime green and pink. Yeah. Like blue and purple.

I think there was a dark blue and orange one in there. It's bad. Yeah, it's real rough. But I mean, it is straight out of like, oh, it is straight up like pioneer clothes. Worse than anything we ever saw. Worse than pioneer clothes, yeah. Yeah, it was bad. I mean, good honor for sewing and good honor for being into it. Oh, yeah, it's a great skill. Could you maybe pick another pattern?

Could you go pick a pattern that wasn't made in 1762? Exactly. Maybe something not in the school marm collection. And going back to the amusement park, so... Jim Bob, sorry, Lego Hair, Lego Hair made a very specific part of his announcement where he's like, you know, it's really good because it's a Christian-based organization, like when he's telling them about the amusement park. I'm curious to know what about other amusement parks is anti-Christian. Because you know they've never been to them.

Yeah. It's not like they go to Six Flags Over Texas every other month. You know what I mean? So it's like... Hey, they went to Disneyland, remember? They went to Disneyland and there were dwarves and witches. That's true. But like... I really, really want to know if they're so afraid of computers and pornography and the library and all of these things. I want to know what they think a regular like.

amusement park would be like how scary to do drugs well yeah you know how scary is a cocaine corner cocaine corner i love it

So they're getting ready to go. And it's kind of funny because cousin Amy makes a point to go back to her car to grab her iPod. iPod. Oh, my God. It just didn't just get retired. Yeah. Man, so telling of the time. Can we just have a moment of silence for the death of the iPod? Okay.

So she goes back to the car for her iPod and she's just like, I need this. She's waving that thing around. Because she's like, I don't want to have, basically she doesn't want to have to listen to them sing hymns. She's like, they sing a lot and it's hymns. Same. So she makes sure she has that. And it's funny because then the producer asked Josiah, why aren't you allowed to listen to rock and roll? Oh, God.

And Josiah, oh, Josiah, he says, because it's not very good for you, you know, because you're dancing around. There's nothing to it, really. None of those things mean anything. It's one fucking salad. Yeah, none of those things.

word salad word salad with hidden valley ranch yeah they did have it in this episode did you see no i did a big old bottle of hidden valley when they were going through the yes oh disgusting i was just talking to my i'm sorry off off topic i was just on a family thread thread thread this week with my mom and sisters and I was telling my mom that like to get through some of her worst meals I doused everything in Hidden Valley Ranch and like

The smell of bottled Hidden Valley Ranch to this day sends me. I can't do it. What was it that one of your friends called it? It was like sadness in a bottle or failure in a bottle. Abject failure in a bottle. Pack at Hidden Valley Ranch. Good. But you make yourself from a bottle.

fucking disgusting anyways so word salad with hidden valley ranch so then uh goes to josh gross this first time we've seen him With the Bluetooth. Yeah, fucking Bluetooth on his ear. You know, he thinks he's cool as shit. This whole scene, he thinks he is fucking it, man. Oh, yeah. Oh, he's like oozing with like smugness. And it's because he goes and he brings a, I think it's like a Tahoe or something. I don't know. From his car lot to be one of the cars that they caravan in.

And he says how it has, yeah, it has 22 inch rims and a custom sound system. So we're going to be hitting the road and we're going to enjoy hitting the road in this thing. Oh yeah. He's so, you're right, though. He's so, like, smug. He started with, yeah, this is a rig I have on the car lot. Yeah, it's so fun. Oh, God. Like, I know I just was, like, squinting the entire time. Like, oh, God.

The question to the Bates boy about that car is my favorite thing that's ever happened in this episode. Did you write it down? I did. I'll let you quote this one. You go for it. So they ask one of the Bates boys, one of the older ones. I think it might be Zach, but I'm not sure. They didn't give a name. They were like, after they went all the features on the car, they were like, who do you think would own this vehicle?

and he said i'm not sure somebody who must sell pharmaceuticals illegally yeah yeah i was like oh here we go here we fucking go you can't possibly have like a car Again, everything's like this. You couldn't possibly have that without selling drugs. They're bubble of a fucking world. They're judgments. Oh, my God. And I feel like that.

style of not going into detail but i feel like i feel like i have experience and some people that have that mindset right there like you must be doing something illegal to be

to have this or to do this or to go there. And once again, like that's your preconceived notion. Yeah. You know, that's you being judgy as book. Yeah. Okay. So now they are at silver dollar city. and amy says how this is a good place for them because it's christian and but she's just having a good time hanging out with the kids but she definitely like is giving off the like this sucks vibe but she's just like i'm just here having fun with the kids

And she says that she never feels like the odd one out wearing pants or name brand things. And she says that they've always been accepting. Okay. All right. Do you have a little... They have a little interview with the owner of the park. Oh, yeah, yeah. And the owner of the park says that they fit in here. They have family values and they have good, wholesome children. Yep. Do they? Are you sure about that?

Jill even goes on to say about how she and Amy, or just Amy in general, she says that they have different opinions and standards, but we still accept Amy and we love her and we love having her around and we have fun. And Jill seems pumped about it. Yeah. And the only reason I...

bring this up is because it's kind of funny because now jill is the one that's kind of the black sheep outcast of the family okay can't come to the house without jim bob and michelle knowing and being allowed and being there and she and cousin amy are like super close now wow so like it's just kind of funny to watch that then it's like oh we're so different and it's now they're kind of like the little outcasts like together and stuff so interesting

So then they end up watching some of the different, like, having nails made. And then they end up watching candy being made the old-fashioned way. And I can definitely see that this is probably the birthplace of, like, we're free ginger.

that website came around she was so angsty she's not into it and that's why people were like she has a more expressive face so people always thought she'd be the one to like break out and like whatever because she always looks fucking over it and she does during this candy scene she is like but even when you go back to like the first episode of the of the show when they were on the today show all of the kids are there some of them are looking at the

cameras some of them are looking at like the rest of the family she was the one that was just kind of spacing out yeah she don't give a fuck so then amy says that that they like this place because it's christian and then I like this part. They all wear the same kind of dresses that they used to wear or that the baits still wear. And I was like, the fucking shade. Damn, shamey over here. She's like throwing some shade and shame over the baits. She's like, are that the...

Are they still wearing? It's like, God damn. She didn't even try to hide that one. Nope. And then that's where we get into Kelly Jo talking about how they thought that wearing dresses would be pleasing to the Lord. So that's why. They wear their dresses, yada, yada. Kind of just fast, not real detailed. Just pleasing to the Lord. No G, pleasing. And then the episode ends kind of quickly.

It's now the next day. They're at the Dixie Stampede, which is a dinner show about America. Yeah. It's like medieval times, but like whitewashed. Yeah. Whitewashed American. Yeah. And that's kind of it. Yeah.

So do you have anything you want to add on that? Oh, I do want to say one thing. It was in this episode that I was like, God damn, is Jim Bob way taller than I realized? Or is Gil Bates shorter than I ever knew? Gil Bates looks really small. And so I looked it up and it looks, it's conflicting information, but it looks like he's 5'5 or 5'6. And it says that Jim Bob is about 5'11. So I was like, damn, is Jim Bob tall? Or no, Gil Bates is a little...

Well, man. So when they're standing next to each other, it is quite apparent. Oh, yeah. He's very small. That's why he doesn't watch basketball, because he doesn't want it to awaken a desire to be taller. Yep, can't be awakening those desires too young. Yep, exactly. Is he old enough now? I don't know. It's not in the Bible. Do they give an age?

Overall, the Bates were kind of a fascinating foil. They were the complete opposite, but it was very interesting to see them all interact. Well, the funny thing about the Bates family... is they are they fly under the radar more they have the same bullshit beliefs system right yeah but i just always go back to like just being more palatable

They're a little bit more palatable. They come off more warmly. And this is just in this first episode. But these days, I know it's really hard to believe, Tim. But the daughters are actually fairly stylish now.

Which, the Bates daughters? The Bates daughters. A couple... hard to believe no not at all go ahead finish your statement but like some of them are like together they own like a boutique they're very influencer like more like in the influencer circle they like several of them just have much more of a personality than the Duggar girls yes and like again like I feel like Kelly Jo seems easier to be around Gil is more Gil seems a lot less fake than Jim Bob yeah so

there's a lot of stuff to tell you about the baits that we will definitely talk in the future. But just right now on that surface level, surface level, I do think that they just like are, they're a little bit more, a tiny bit more relatable, like personality wise. Yeah. Well, I brought it up.

I wrote it down in the beginning when they were going through all their kids because they had a big lineup of all of the kids from both families. I kept pointing out that the boys in the Bates family... all blended with each other just like the ones from the Duggars but like the girls in that family I felt like they weren't as creepy Like in general, regardless of beliefs and blah, blah, blah, like their family just seems less creepy culty. Now they obviously.

they still are involved in that same, you know, kind of like appearance, appearance, like just like looking at them quickly. Like, yeah. So I feel like as an outsider, you relate with them more than you do with the Duggars. Cause you're like, ugh, you're. kind of off-putting and then when you have this other family you're like oh in comparison they're fantastic yeah so it'll be interesting to watch them as you see more so like remembering this first time ever seeing them and i my

My memory is thinking that I liked them a little bit better. But again, now I'm rewatching. I don't know. So we'll just see as we go. Anyways, that's it for the episode. Recap wise.

We'll take a little break and we'll come back with a deep dive. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our U.S.-based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans, or financial losses alone.

Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com slash podcast. Terms apply. For today's deep dive, we're... We're going to focus on what Anna's pesty bestie, what his life is going to look like for the next minimum decade, hopefully 12 and a half years. Because last episode, when we were recording, we knew...

that he had been transferred. But the time of recording, we didn't know where. The day that we were releasing it, it came out. So since then... I've, you know, we've gotten more details. So now we know that Josh is serving his time at Seagoville in Texas. And if you remember, it was down to kind of like two, both in Texas. This is the one that Judge Brooks recommended because it has the sexual offender program. So that is where he got taken to. And so, first of all...

This is the one that's the further of the way of the two, which of course makes me like a little bit happy. But so it's actually 350 to like 360 miles away from her were home that she's living in right now. So that's about five to five and a half hours by car ride. Okay. But with that said, it's about 11 miles outside of Dallas. And, you know, our favorite.

our fucking favorite david waller you know the one obsessed with the deck yeah uh david waller and priscilla which of course is anna's sister they live about 57 miles away which is about an hour and 30 minutes from the prison okay now i don't know exactly where they live but i just based that mileage off of the church that david is pastoring at

So I'm imagining he kind of lives in that vicinity. Yeah. So they're about an hour and 30 away. So that brings to question like, okay, what do we think Anna's going to do? Do you think Anna's going to stay living in the warehome and just travel often and stay with them? Or do you think like she'll move her, some of her M's over there?

Because she picks them late. She sends her kids off to lots of places. She deserts them all the time. She deserted her kids for long periods of time when she was staying with Josh when he was staying at LeCount's house. Right.

So it's just kind of interesting. Do we think that she'll spend a lot of time there leaving her kids behind for other people to watch? Do you think she'll move there? It's interesting to see how it's all going to play out. And another little side thing is his little brother.

Justin and his wife Claire they also live in the area now I'm not saying that that would have anything to do with Anna like I don't see Anna moving in with them per se but he just does have another family member that's kind of close in the vicinity so it's like do we think justin will come and visit him often i don't know so it'll be interesting to kind of watch watch it all unfold

So first let's start by giving you some general info about the prison. So it is a low security facility and it houses around 1,767 inmates as of right now. get this the warden is a woman wow so the only thing that's kind of funny is people are like oh my god i love that pest headship right now is basically a woman but people are like

It's not like she'll have anything to do with the day to day. It's like we get it. Just give us the fucking little jollies where we can. The world fucking sucks. Let us have our jollies when we can. We need something. Yeah. Just knowing that ultimately, the ultimate say, if something goes up through the rank with him, is a woman. I love it. So I'm into it. So Warden is a woman. It has seven different housing units.

But only three of the seven have air conditioning. Okay. Yeesh. I thought I read that. I read that flipped at first. And I thought it was only three of seven didn't. But yeah, it's the opposite. Depending on where he gets housed, he has a good chance that he's going to be in an air condition. Which I looked up the weather for there for today. 102 degrees.

but 40% humidity. Fucking shoot me. Awful. No, thank you. No, thank you. I always laugh when I hear the term minimum security prison. This is a, yeah. Or what was the term? This is low. low security prison like it's a guy in like a like a folding lawn chair and a whistle you know what i mean like there's no gate it's just a guy being like hey hey

Well, that is like I read up some stuff and some people talk about like inmates that actually are there. They talk about feeling kind of funny about how few fencing there is and stuff like they're like, I was expecting more. So it is kind of an interesting.

feel oh and um apparently it is like right next to a community park like right next to it and they're like it's just a really funny distance that it's right next to the community thing so today one we're recording today's fourth of july And from what I looked up, several inmates have said that...

They actually really look forward to Fourth of July because they actually let them go outside and watch the fireworks that are being set off in that community park. So it's like there's this whole thing happening, this whole event, like basically next door to them or behind. I can't remember which it is. And then they're just right here, just like.

and it's just like the pictures of it are kind of pretty and like people describe it as being very green like very well maintained like it is it's not what you imagine like and i was looking up other prisons just to look at pictures so i was looking at where jared fogel is at in colorado for also csam type stuff his is very institutional looking

okay and then you look at josh's and it's like it's it's kind of nice looking like it's red brick and there's lots of like greenery so just interesting anyway so

Good chance he won't have air conditioning and it is 40% humidity there today. Yeesh. Ew, gross. So as far as housing goes, you can be in 2, 3, 5, and 12 person rooms. So he's coming straight from...

You know, like the jail, he was... being housed at he was in solitary there just because of the nature of his crime they automatically put sex offenders in solitary so he's going from being in solitary to here so first you're like okay is it gonna be a big shock because as far as being you know um being contained he's used to having solitary but then again he grew up dormitory style so it's like that won't be

Maybe it'll be a slight adjustment, but I don't think... I don't know. Will it be a big one or not? Is somebody going to put a vinyl Josh label on his bunk? On the edge of his bed? Yep. So... This particular prison, because of that sex offender program, roughly 40% of the inmates are there for sexual offenses. Yeesh. So just an interesting ratio. Good thing they put them right next to a park. Community parks. And it actually made the news pretty prolific in 2020.

for having a really severe COVID outbreak where like there was over 1300 cases. So it's like 75% of, of the, uh, inmates and from what i last read um i think three died but it could have been more i'm not sure if i had like the most updated but yeah so quite a big covid outbreak back in 2020 damn

Okay, so when Josh arrives, he has to take all sorts of admission and orientation classes that are going to last a little bit for him to, you know. learn all the rules and stuff while he's there. But, and he's also supposed to read this admissions and an orientation handbook. It's on their website. So of course I downloaded it.

It's 59 pages, and I read every single page of the 59 pages. Oh, my God. Dedication. I was like, I could try to skim, but I'm like, no, I got to read all this shit. So I did. So there's a lot of emphasis at the very beginning of the orientation book about like cleanliness. So it's like you have to keep the pipes clean in your pipes clean. You got to poop. Keep the pipes clean in your room. Baseboard.

making sure there's no cobwebs you're supposed to like clean your window every day and beds are supposed to be made military style by 7 30 a.m every single day for checks so as far as lights out goes At 9.15, they have to stop all loud noise, loud talking, card, and domino playing. So those dominoes. 9.16, nope. 9.15, you got to put away the dominoes.

And at 11 o'clock, they return to their rooms. Lights out at 11 on Sunday through Thursday. And lights out is at, they get a fucking party, man. 1.30 a.m. Fridays and Saturdays. Wow. TVs are supposed to be off by midnight on that Sunday through Thursday. So they get an hour after getting back to their room to watch TV and 2 a.m. on Fridays and Saturdays. So they get that extra half hour. And like, I don't know about you. Like, I just.

I guess I've never paid this much. I've never go figure. I've never read a fucking prison handbook before. So I don't quite know what I was expecting, but that was later than I thought. I thought like everything shuts down at like nine o'clock. Right. Well, everything in our downtown closes at five. Our little downtown is like, oh, six o'clock? No, nothing good happens past six.

That was later than I was thinking. I was like, wow, are they going to stay up until fucking 1.30 on Fridays? Damn. On a school night? No, that's not the school night. School nights are fucking 11 o'clock before they have to go to their room. Wild.

Okay, work assignments. So every single inmate is required to work. Some of the different categories that you can work in are facilities. So that would be like plumbing, AC, welding, landscaping, blah, blah, blah, things like that. There's quite a number of things. And then there's food service, of course. And then there's the business office that has like accounting, purchasing, warehouse. But also that includes commissary and like laundry.

Don't think we want him in the business. I don't think we want him anything to do with accounting and purchasing. But then there's also the federal prison industries, which you go on a waiting list for. So you get, depending on the need, they assign you your... your work thing that could be some of those first ones I talked about. Yeah. But then for the federal prison industries, there's a waiting list. And then after you move your way up on the waiting list, then you have to interview for it.

So this is where the part of the prison where they have like the textile factory that makes like military jackets and stuff. So that's why you have to interview for it. And then it says specifically for these FPI. jobs that they start at 23 cents an hour but you can move be moved all the way up to a dollar 15 room for growth yep so oh and then that comes those jobs have vacation And holiday pay. So you can see why these are like the sought after positions.

And, you know, it really only specified that 23 cents to $1.15 as being for the FPI. So I'm not really sure what the pay is on those like regular ones. But maybe I'm thinking maybe those are also 23 cents an hour starting, but I'm not entirely sure. But any of the jobs, they get paid once a month by the 10th of the month. And I'm aware of those things because when I did, I'm a chef and I did fire support.

for a couple different companies and we would take these big mobile kitchen rigs out into the middle of a field where there was a wildfire and we would feed breakfast sack lunch and dinner to thousands of firefighters however was on there there was a whole crew that was prison inmates Oh, okay. I didn't realize that. And they would usually eat, when I was on the breakfast crew, they would usually eat an hour and a half before everybody else. So we had to be ready at like 4.30 and they would...

They would be the first ones there. They all came in as one group. They got breakfast. They sat down. They ate in our little tent. And then they left. And then, like, right when they left, then the other firefighters would show up. talking to those crews all they would do is they would dig trenches and they would kind of do like the grunt work in order to stop you know this fire um but it was the same thing they made like a dollar a day yeah um

And they were doing like the really hard work out there. And, you know, you talked about looking at what reading a prison handbook and not really knowing what to expect. It's kind of the same thing. Like most of them. were obviously well-behaved because they were excited that type of job without being well-behaved. Yeah. So it's like, you could tell that there was ones that were like super like stoic and quiet and didn't want to say a word to you, but they were never like menacing. So, yeah.

yeah so next uh topic in the book was phone calls so each each inmate is given 300 minutes per month okay but they can only use 15 minutes per phone call.

and after a call ends they have to wait 30 minutes before they can make another so you can't just like repeatedly call 15 minutes to talk to Anna for 45 minutes like he has to wait that 30 minutes so that's something I didn't quite realize I thought that they could kind of I thought maybe they had to get to the back of a line or something if there is a line but I didn't realize that either way you're waiting like

30 minutes it's funny i'm basing a lot of this off of like watching orange is the new black and i'm like huh like like his specifically like when they're talking about like the clothes um it's like five five trousers which by the way i'm going to start using the word trousers i'm like damn i like this word like you know so much better than pants so you get five trousers five this you know no mention of of like any kind of like night

you know, like pajamas. But I'm thinking, I'm like, in Orange is the New Black, the ladies all had like a nightgown. So I don't know. Maybe it's just different because it's a male person. I'm like, he isn't getting a nightgown? I want to see him on TV. You know, he's not wearing a muumuu at night.

Okay, next topic is food service. I just, I love details. I know that this may be seem kind of like dumb and like maybe a little tedious. But I mean, it's only once or twice, maybe three times that somebody goes to prison like this. So and you have the opportunity to dive into it. So I figured it just gives us an idea. what his life is gonna be like and i enjoy that like i just want to i want to know these things so for him on weekdays breakfast starts at 6 30 and it goes to 7 15

Which I'm imagining is pretty fucking early for a lazy pig like him. Like, I don't see him being the type to be up before eight or nine, but obviously projecting. Lunch is at 11 a.m. And then dinner follows the 4 p.m. count that they do in their cells. But then weekends, ready? Weekends get a little crazy. There is a coffee hour from 7 to 8, followed by... brunch at 10 a.m. Wow. Brunch. Brunch. I imagine there's like a Spanish guitar player in the corner.

So, you know, finally Josh can be like a bitch who brunches like for the first time in his life because he doesn't strike me as the brunch type otherwise. So they get a 10 a.m. brunch and then they have the normal dinner time of 4 p.m. I mean, I've worked in the food industry for a long time. The food industry can feel like a prison, so it makes sense. A little bit, yep.

So apparently when you're going into the cafeteria to eat, you are allowed to bring in like condiments. So hot sauces, salts and things like that. But you're not allowed to bring any actual other food items. Okay. Which again. There's no other reason for me to really stop and think about these things at any other point in my life. But I was like, oh, they can't even bring their commissary chips. So apparently not. They can't bring any other food in.

And I couldn't actually find a specific Seagullville prison because you know I wanted to know what the fuck he's eating. You were looking for the menu? Oh, fuck yes, I was. But the best I could find was... something online from 2020 that says it's like a rotate like you know a cycle menu

that says it's federal but i got conflicting information nobody everybody's like who the fuck cares but i got conflicting information about whether or not they all kind of have to follow the same things or not so i couldn't zero in and be like yep this is their menu but i mean in some ways what i expected in other ways not quite breakfast to me looks the worst a lot of bran flakes a lot of uh you know it'll say like breakfast cake so it's like what is you know

What is that? Lots of toast and a margarine pat. Things like that. Lunch and dinner. There is always a vegetarian option. so they like some of their things are like chicken fried rice and then you can have tofu fried rice okay but unfortunately a lot of their vegetarian options are just get replaced with beans a lot of times so like if they're having a sandwich like a hamburger or chicken patty sandwich they'll get like a vegetarian patty of some sort

but there's so many times on the menu that it was like uh this you know whatever the thing is on the menu or beans it's like a beef taco or beans or beans so vegetarians get beans a lot but I mean, there was like some chicken parmesan and some chicken a la king and, you know, so I wish I knew exactly what he was eating. Oh my gosh. From what I understand, he's probably having a...

barbecue-ish thing today like hot dogs and stuff for the fourth anyways moving on to the next thing it's mail so mail is received monday through friday and uh They can send it out every day, but they just receive it Monday through Friday. Of course, it's all checked. all that stuff um can't send polaroids so if anybody's planning on sending him a polaroid he will not get it they do not allow polaroids no polaroids no no files nope

Okay, now let's talk about commissary. This is a good one. So the commissary says that they can't purchase or possess more than 20 stamps at a time. which at first i was like damn that's not a lot for pests because he's got a lot of family but then like wait a minute how many people are actually going to be writing him and him writing back to and number two

I think he's too much. I think he's too fucking lazy to write letters. Do you think he's like, he doesn't come off as like the, I'm going to take the time to write letters. Like, I think he's too lazy for that shit. Yeah. I don't think there would be.

kind of that level of connection with people enough to do that yeah so i because you hear about some inmates like writing a letter every day to someone because it's kind of like their journaling experience more than anything i just don't think he's number one that introspective and i also think he's just fucking like So I think he'd rather talk to Anna on the phone and move the fuck on. So the spending limit in commissary is $290 a month, but that excludes like stamp costs.

Their shopping is available Monday through Thursday on their assigned day. And so they get assigned their day based on their inmate number. Which, oh yeah, I didn't tell you guys his inmate number. He is... Hang on. Hang on. There's furious flipping of pages on a legal notebook going on. 425-01-509. 425-01. I remembered the 425-01. I can remember the 509.

so based off his number it looks like monday is his commissary day okay but then because today's a federal holiday he'll get it on friday so he has to i'm pretty happy he has to wait extra days this week so he gets to shop once a week

And I'm just going to go over the little commissary list here. Just real quick, just so you can get an idea of some of the stuff that they have. I was wondering what that was. I was looking at it before we started recording this part. So he can get a... Well, you're going to love this one, Tim. He can buy a Sony Walkman. I don't know what that is. Sony Walkman. It's not ringing a bell. A Walkman, if you're Tim. Oh, okay, there you go. So he can get a Walkman.

Different kinds of clothes and stuff. What's the going rate for that for said Walkman? So it says 4410. And when we get to some of the... the food stuff i was like damn these are some fucking reasonable ass prices like i was impressed with the pricing at first but then i realized that even the the handbook i'm reading is from 2013 like they have it online

but it's not updated online. So obviously some things could be slightly different. I don't think they're going to vary that much in the policies, but it doesn't even have like the correct warden listed in it. And when I looked at the commissary, it says 2011. These can't be accurate pricing. I'm assuming they would have updated it in 12 years, right? Right? Yeah. So back, according to this though, 4410, I imagine it's more now.

You know, they can get various shirts, underwear. They can buy extra underwear and all that stuff. Drinks like hot cocoa, Nestea, Coke, Diet Coke, Dr. Pepper, blah, blah, blah, Gatorade.

under food cakes and cookies honey buns which we have i've learned so much about honey buns i did a little bit of a thing posting in our stories honey buns are considered like very high highly regarded in the prison setting they're used for birthday cakes they make a lot of things out of them they're traded they're like a currency people get the shit beat out of them over honey buns so they have that they also have nutty bars

Oatmeal pies. Ooh, I love me a good nutty bar. Oast-ite meal cookies? Or oat? Did I say? Oast. You said oast-ite meal cookies. Damn. Iced oatmeal cookies. Okay, you can get tuna, mackerel, and salmon. So our cat Mildred, she would be very into this commissary list. Mildred says mackerel. She's into it. You can get some turkey sticks. Under foods and nuts, you can get not just any trail mix, Tim.

heavenly trail mix so definitely approved by michelle a christian yeah it's a christian snack um just you know some condiments and things skip over that Oh, there's a whole section that he's going to save a lot of money. He can devote more of his money to food because there's a whole hair care section which he will not have to worry about. He is almost done with hair.

so he'll save a lot of money that's that's good he's saving the resources then under health and medical um earwax remover he he strikes me as a type to have a a thick layer of wax in those ears, so I could see that. He can get some fiber powder, antifungal cream, and corn remover. medicated foot powder but i noticed not a single mention of diarrhea medication so you know he might have to have anna check all three shelves and smuggle some in for him because there's no mention of diarrhea meds

Then for, oh, get, here we go. Here we go. He, he has access to Blue Bell ice cream. Wow. That's a higher quality than I was expecting in a prison commissary. Like I was expecting like frozen dairy dessert. where it's basically like frozen cool whip made of oils and gums but no fucking bluebell they must have gotten that big bluebell contract yeah they're they're pumped they're like yes because they know they're gonna sell shit ton

He can get some odor eater insoles. I imagine he might need that. And then for the ramen, so they only have two flavors. They have chicken and chili. I have never even heard of chili. Have you seen chili ramen before? Not.

alone i've seen like chili garlic shrimp it's green i've never even seen my favorite ramen flavor it's like green colored package i've never seen in my life i had to look it up 30 cents and that's where i was saying that this was very reasonable pricing because i pay 30 cents for it in the store but

I'm thinking, I'm curious what the pricing actually is these days. So it just gives you a little bit of an idea of, there's a lot more, but that's a basic rundown of some of the things Josh can use his family's money to purchase at the maximum of $290 a month.

It's a lot more selection than I thought it would be. Yeah, and I didn't even read a fraction of it. It's actually quite a bit more. And when I was looking up stuff, the whole commissary thing is a way bigger operation than I imagined. It's pretty...

Pretty extensive. Yeah, it's wild. Okay, so as far as laundry goes, Josh will have to drop off his laundry between 6 and 7.30 a.m., Monday through Friday, and then he can pick it up the following day. Okay. Little details, because I like details. He has a bag that has his inmate number on it. Correct. All of his clothes go into that bag and they wash and dry that entire bag. So nothing ever gets actually taken out of it. Oh, and it just all gets washed in the bag.

So there is no separation of whites and darks or any of that. At least not in the clothes. Good one. Pretty good. But he can buy detergent from commissary if he wanted to. That is on the list. And they do have access to machines, which I mean, we did see Josh doing the laundry that one time on the on the road episode. Yeah. So. i don't know say you mean uh ginger's not there to do his laundry he's like uh ginger he's like what happened to the buddy system right janna and my room needs cleaning

she's going to be the one there polishing his shoes and pointing that they say that the shoes have to be under their bed like pointing out like he's like janna they're pointing the wrong direction oh man all right so now let's talk about health care

So I'm not going to bore you with a lot of the details because it's extensive. But I just wanted to tell you some things that really stuck out to me as kind of interesting. So the copay.

for a visit if you request a health care visit is two dollars or you you also have to pay the two dollars if another inmate is injured and you are deemed like by like the disciplinary like things if you're deemed the cause then you have to pay it so you can beat the shit out of someone you pay two bucks worth it No, not to mention maybe add it on time or like whatever, but $2 copay.

But then there's also no copay for emergency visits or any kind of health care visit that's initiated by the health department themselves. Because they do things like by age, like, you know, if like you get your yearly exams, they. you know you get your regular dental you get these you get regular visits and also like by age like okay if you're if you need to get like a colonoscopy like they'll do that and whatever

But indignant. How do you say that word? Indignant? I just forgot how to pronounce it. Basically poor. If you're considered a poor inmate. You will not be charged a copay. But to be considered that, you have to have an account balance of $8 or less and not have exceeded $40 of their commissary spending limit.

My takeaway, though, is like, fuck, is the only way to get affordable health care is like to go to prison? $2 copay. I'd fucking love it. Right. I could beat the shit out of someone, too, and still only have to pay $2. No deductible. No deductible. I mean, you do only have two flavors of ramen. So I mean, is it worth it?

It might be. People are fucking bankrupt. Don't even get me started on health care. I'm going to be on a fucking thing. This one's a rough deep dive because I was like, let's not talk about health care. Let's not talk about for profit prison system. But I don't know. My takeaway is like.

damn that's the that's some affordable health care they get you your glasses you're not allowed to wear contacts because they're like it can get eye infections and all this shit and like whatever but they'll order your fucking contacts that's part of your initially getting there is you get an eye exam and they get you

fucking glasses i mean damn um okay so then there's this whole section on sexual assault prevention intervention So it first talks about like what is sexual abuse and how nobody has the right to pressure you, blah, blah, blah, like all that type of stuff. Then it gets really gross. And I'll tell you why. It's because the verbiage is like...

It's like super similar to what women get told all the time when it comes to like harassment of any sort. And it drives me. It fucking pisses me off. And I feel like it really just kind of like highlights how much. victims a lot of times are made to feel responsible in some sort of way it's kind of like but but like blah blah blah but don't do so i want to read you a couple of these things because it's bullshit

Alright, so avoiding sexually abusive behaviors. Number one, do not accept gifts or favors from other inmates. Most gifts or favors from other inmates come with strings attached. Number two, be alert. Do not use contraband substances such as drugs or alcohol. They can weaken your ability to stay alert and use good judgments. Okay. obviously they're not even supposed to have those things but it just reminds me so much of telling women but like

Oh, but you were like drunk. Well, you drank too much. You were drunk and like, ooh, like almost like, ooh, you shouldn't have gotten drunk. Right. It's that whole idea. Like, no, it shouldn't have fucking happened. Has nothing to do with whether I'm drinking or doing drugs. Right. Number three, be direct and firm if other inmates ask you to do something you do not want to do. Do not give mixed messages. Oof. Fucking pisses me off because that's so like, ooh, but were you like kind of flirty?

right what were you wearing were you wearing like a short skirt like it's the same kind of feel and i don't care if we're in a fucking men's prison i don't give a shit it's this it's just this idea it's that people have behind it of like oh you could prevented this in some way right um number four is avoid out of the way or poorly lit areas of the institution don't stand outside back behind the bar

You're asking for it. Yeah. Choose your associates wisely. Look for people who are involved in and they put parentheses around it. Safe. positive institutional activities like education programs, psychology groups, or religious services. Get involved in these activities yourself. So you're telling me that if a person is somehow religiously associated, you're going to be safe? Well, I mean, there's never been anything sexual assault related that's happened around a church thing. No, never.

God, preposterous. So just hang around, you know, religion in general and you will be safe. Fuck, pisses me off. Like just even reading that, I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? And the last one is trust your instincts. If you sense that a situation may be dangerous, it probably is. That's probably the best one in the group. Right. But then they end it with the, oh, their wording is awful.

in in bold it says before you attack another inmate remember dot dot dot oh god sexual assault is a serious crime and then it goes into like some other stuff but it's like Before you do it, just remember it's a serious crime. Right. Like, who the fuck approved the way this is written? It's so stupid. Anyways. A legal team somewhere. God, before you attack somebody.

Just remember. Okay, now we'll get into programs and activities. So there's a parenting program. So maybe he could like lead the class on like sweeping. Or, yeah, picking up goldfish. He's like, it's really all in the wrist. So he could do a demonstration on that, I'm sure. There's also a variety of different sports teams, but I didn't see any mention of broomball, so I imagine Pest won't be interested. If he goes to the commissary, he's going to keep pushing tater tot casserole.

There's hobby shop, but I didn't get any details of what the type of things they do. I'd like to know, but there's a hobby shop. Then they have weightlifting and fitness, which I imagine Josh probably sits out on that one. Doesn't strike me as the type. There's also a wellness program that teaches you about balancing exercise, nutrition, and rest. He's got one of those down. He's really good at resting.

I can't wait for you to see going forward. At one point when Anna's giving birth, he's asleep. Like he almost misses it. So he's really good at resting. So he's got a third of that down. Part of this wellness program, they have aerobic and cycling classes, and it specifically says to help increase endurance. Yeah, I don't imagine he'll be a part of that.

They also have a music room. What does he need endurance for? He's in prison. Not like he's training to be an athlete, and then he's like, well, I need to get my endurance up. Oh, and then there's this tiny little line that I almost missed because it's at the very, very end of all this. And I'm so glad I didn't miss it because it fucking cracked me up. It says the recreational department offers achievement awards, pictures.

sodas, and other consumable items as incentives for the completion of the structured exercise component of physical fitness and health education classes. Wow. So I love that they're like, good job being healthy. Here's a soda pop. Have a soda. I'm like, do you think even a soda could get, could get passed on a bike in a cycling class?

he'll just he'll just commissaria but i just love this idea of like good job on this health cloud here's a soda hilarious you lost you won the weight loss challenge here's some cocaine

All right. Next section is visitation. Love talking that. So the visiting hours are Friday from 2.30 to 8.30. And then Saturday through Monday and then holidays are 8.30 a.m. to 3 p.m. Okay. So each inmate, unless it's been updated because obviously this shit's from 2013. The inmates get 25 like visiting points a month. And so like you almost use those points like currency. So those those weekends and holiday.

visiting hours those are two points per hour okay and then those weekday ones are one point per hour obviously because weekends and holidays are the most like sought after visiting times So as he's being like admitted basically into the prison, he has to fill out a form that they tell you to write down all your family members, like all of them, whether you want them to visit or not, because then there's a.

there's a column where you indicate if yes or no to visitation okay but they want you to list them all anyway which i imagine if so if somebody shows up they can be like oh yep you are their sister but man his sheet they probably had to give him extra sheets yes well no that's funny you say that because there's like 14 spaces on it and it specifically says that if you need another sheet to request another um if more spaces need it's like yeah he's gonna need like

10 sheets and it's funny because like it has you put down like names ages and it's like there's no fucking way he remembers i i doubt he remembers all seven of his kids names Let alone their fucking ages. Do you think he remembers any of that shit? Maybe Anna can help him out on her first visit. Is she allowed to help me with my paper? My homework?

With each visit, they can have up to five visitors and that includes kids. So kids are allowed to come, but 16 and under must have an adult with them.

if you're like 16 to 17 before before you turn 18 you can be there without an adult but you have to have like a signed like affidavit type thing or whatever but i imagine i don't imagine the kids going without anna at that age correct anyway so with only five and they have she has one still on the boob you know um it's gonna be i'm i'm like i wonder if she really will like rotate all the kids through like

how many times a month are they going to go what's the rotation going to be like and then also knowing that you're like using points as currency Like, what if somebody shows up to visit him that he accepts that Anna didn't know and she's keeping track of his points and then she gets denied or something? I don't know. I don't know how it all works. So just a thought I had. So hugs, kisses, and handshakes are only allowed upon arrival and departure. So no, no hand fucking allowed.

oh man how are they gonna get through that well lucky for anna that means she's able to finally eat her fucking like chex mix in peace because you are there are vending machines you can bring up to 30 cash

Wow. For vending machines. And I'm like, that's a fuck ton of money. But I'm like, wait a minute. If it's her and four fucking kids, depending on how long they're there, they're probably gonna need a lot of snacks to get through this thing. Yeah. But she can actually eat her, you know, Fritos without... She won't go hungry, won't be dehydrated. Nope. No crossing over her own arms. She'll be able to eat those Fritos in peace. Technically, they have a state-sponsored chaperone in the guards.

oh and then I was looking up the like what you can and can't wear so no sleeveless things no no tight-fitting um attire no heels above three inches so she can't coming in looking all like hot for a man you know and her like stripper heels or anything but no khaki allowed oh that's a rough one for a dugger So Jim Bob will have to be very careful in his packing. No khakis. You'll look like the inmate. It's a safety measure. No khakis and no army green.

What are their thoughts on belt cell phone clips? No electronics allowed. Lego hair is going to be miserable. They have to leave that all in their car. you can bring in like a half gallon size clear bag full of stuff for like a baby and it says like so if you're bringing in stuff it's only as much as the baby would consume while they're in that time period yeah so

Do you think Lego hair will have to take his Lego hair off and leave it at the front desk? Sorry, buddy. Prohibited. So the next part. They talk about prohibited acts while you're in prison. Okay. And they have them like separated into like greatest severity, high severity, moderate, low, blah, blah, blah. I am not going to run through them all because it's a lot. There's a lot listed in each one. But I just kind of wanted to point out.

Some of them I think are funny and what they put above and below some of these things. Okay. So top of the list under the greatest, right? Number one is killing. So that's very frowned upon. Good to know. So just putting this into terms that maybe like pests can understand, like this would be like four frowny faces. It's the top of the top of like the four categories. So four frowny faces on killing. Not good.

Says no rioting, no taking hostages. Hey. Refusal to give urine sample or breathalyzer. Was above sexual assault. Oof. Isn't that funny? I just thought that that was interesting. Still in the same category. So still, you know, the greatest severity. But I feel like it should be like much higher on that list. Yeah. Personally. I feel like moving forward.

I think if something's really bad or if I'm not a fan of it, I think I'm going to say, I'm just going to say four frowny faces and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Well, so now we're in high severity. So now we're down to three frowny faces. Okay. So it's fighting, engaging in sexual acts, wearing a disguise. Whoa, no fake mustaches. I mean, so is he wearing like a fat suit? Is that what's happening in that video?

This is disguise. No Groucho Marx glasses. No adulteration of food or drink. Which means not fucking with food and drinks. i mean like literally i mean like destroying it like making it gross is what they're saying it's just a funny word but i think that's funny that that's on high severity yeah um anyways tattooing and stalking

Moving into moderate, which would be two frowny faces. Okay. We have indecent exposure. So it's much worse that you mess with food than it is to expose yourself. So fucking weird. Um, unexcused absences from work, gambling, articulating, or I mean, sorry, I read my own handwriting wrong, circulating a petition.

Oh. So I guess that means that it's a bad idea for Josh to try to petition for a tater tot casserole or like Anna's like chicken Eddie to like make the menu. So frowned upon. No petitions. And then the low category, one frowny face, actually had very few things and I'm only going to mention a couple, but unauthorized contact, which could be like kissing or hugging, feigning illness or obscene language.

oh my oh my so yeah that just kind of that sums it up as far as that goes it just gives you a little glimpse into you know and The thing about Josh is I think a lot of people are like, I think he's going to do terribly in there. But then I feel like it's a wild card. I think he might. I think he's such a lazy fuck.

and just like so like selfish like i could see him enjoying the fact that hey i don't have to worry about taking care of kids i don't have to worry about having a job i'm getting i don't think he'll mind the fucking food right i think he'll be sit there getting fat and happy like as we already know eating commissary like i don't i think in the beginning he'll be bothered the way anybody might be right but unfortunately i actually think he

won't be that bothered unless he gets the shit beat out of him yeah i agree and i thought about that um when you were posting the stuff of him getting transferred um that's exactly what i thought i was like i i don't think As much as it's not ideal, I don't think it's going to be as bad of a situation for him as I think it would be for a lot of other people. I think it'll be worse for him coming out and being out in the real world and restricted.

I think he's going to have a harder time with probation being watched the way he will be, but still like having that.

foot into society correct than this because just because i i just think he's again i just keep saying it but i think he's a lazy fuck so i think that for him it's nice to have all this taken care of and you know anna took care of everything fucking anyway so he was already he already didn't do laundry he already didn't make food but i just think he's happy to just totally fucking check out yeah and just do his own shit

Yeah. I don't think he minds a bit. And I think people are coming at it with like, oh, he's serious. You know, he obviously has like control, like a thing with control and he's really selfish. So this is really going to bother him. But I don't know. So I'm kind of curious what other people think. Like you can tell us in the comments. I'm really.

curious if people think that he'll be that bothered or not because i'm just not convinced that he will be yeah and i think sometimes uh like he doesn't have to handle or have somebody else handle like life things anymore Yeah. You know, for that time. So it's like I feel like sometimes being out of being out of control is really refreshing. Yeah. You know, when you have to be in it all the time, you're like, oh, cool. Like these basics are being.

are being done and I don't have to I don't have to worry yeah and you know he may have to listen to Anna complain about what she's having to deal with but he ultimately doesn't have to deal with it it's her problem and like probably like Jim Bob and Michelle's problem yeah i really wish i could be a fly on the wall when jim bob michelle come and visit or will they come and visit or i think jim bob will i'm not sure michelle will if she didn't show up to anything like i'm not i don't know

I mean, there's part of me that feels like she could, but I definitely don't think she would do it often. Yeah. But we'll see. Fascinating. But I just wanted to end with one extra little tidbit that came out.

So there was an audio leak that got reported by Radar Online that is supposedly of inmates of Seagoville when Josh was being like brought in. Okay. So it's a six minute audio clip.

And they're basically talking about how they were made to, like, clean the prison real good before he got there, apparently. And they talk about, you know, him being, they're like... they're joking about having another celebrity amongst them and another one kind of like chimes in and says oh another pro chomo you know which is shot molester and they kind of joke around saying like oh we're gonna ask for his autograph they talk about like...

one of them's like oh yeah i heard about him at my last at my last spot heard about him and like talking about the show being canceled and they just kind of get into a conversation of like why'd the show get canceled this is fucking reality like you know um and someone saying oh i bet he got 25 years and then someone chimes in and says no he got 15 which of course we know is it's actually 12 and a half yeah and then they were like fuck 15 like

15 i got 25 my lawyer was shit and you just so it's just this conversation amongst them and they're even saying like oh and they're like is that him is that him and some of them are like i don't know i've never seen him before and they're like no i think that's him up there talking to so and so

So it's this whole like thing. Of course, the prison says that they can't verify the authenticity of it. Number one, because it would make them look bad because there's not supposed to be anything that could... record in prison but that is actually cell phones and things are the most common like contraband that's found correct um and then there's a lot of people that are doubting whether it's even real or not i don't know to me it sounds legit like it's it sounds prison-y i don't know it's

It's like echoey. You hear like bustle in the background. Like some people are like, oh, it's way too clear. But I'm like, I don't know. I think it might be real. It sounds a little prison-y. It sounds prison-y. Yeah, so I don't know. I think it might be legit. And of course, they're never going to say it is because they don't want to cop to it. Correct. Just a little extra tidbit there. So it'll be interesting to see how he does.

acclimate if we get to hear about it i don't know well i mean you're in a you're in a facility that has a a larger population of like sexual offenders than others so

As much as, you know, the stereotype is that, like, that even in that community is not... That's almost punished even harder by them. You know what I mean? Well... there's a guy that actually has a pod I didn't listen to it but there's a guy that served time in there that has a podcast about it and he he talks about being in there saying like if you can just get over like the

frame of mind it's not that bad of a place and there's multiple inmates that have written they're like oh i've you know it's prison but i've had worse so it sounds like pretty safe because they are kind of surrounded by their like kind compared to being somewhere else and of course being low security versus you know max the guy in the lawn chair yeah with the whistle yep i

It's not your, it's not like the TV shows I'm watching where it's like, I'm always watching this stuff. That's like max shit. Right. You know? So different feel. He might blend in. I could see himself. trying to get all involved in the you know they talked about even when he was in jail being involved in like church stuff and everybody was so convinced he was innocent correct i'm curious now in the actual prison setting will

will people be like that again? Or are they going to be like, ah, fuck now. Like, but he's also surrounded people with the same crimes. Yeah. Wasn't there an article that came out that was like, um, he tried to do like,

ministry in there and like a bunch of the other inmates didn't like it or something yeah there was something about that and then there you know there's there's a mix so some people are like oh yeah it's going over great and other people are like no they're not fucking having it so

But I feel like jail would definitely be more rough than it sounds like he's in right now just because he was put in isolation just for his crime. You know, he's surrounded by a bunch of people that aren't in there for the same things as him. Yeah. I mean, I have no frame of reference because, you know, my media consuming to try to get an insight into prison was Jailhouse Rock. Oh, yeah, a little different. It feels like...

In real life, there's a little bit less singing than what I was expecting. Might be a little bit, you know, a little bit. But there is a music room, so. All right, so that sums up this episode for me. Anything from you?

um not anything extra this was i feel like there was a lot going on in this episode um with the baits with the baits yeah there was i feel like there was a lot of meat on them bones um and it wasn't about him getting engaged or you know different stuff so i as much as i can i actually enjoyed this episode Not because I liked things that happened or the people that were involved, but I just felt like it kept me wanting to write more notes, which is always good.

in what we're doing here and it was nice to see something that had like quite a bit going on but not be as exhausting as watching the engagement i mean the engagement episode is like fucking gold like it is a it is a top tier episode to watch But it's almost exhausting in its own way. So it's kind of nice that there isn't so much to pick apart as far as deep-seated stuff. But some stuff to look at and talk about. Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty good.

You dove real deep there, lady. It was just wading through what is worth talking about and what's not. I'm interested.

you know he hopefully is only going to prison one time for now for at least 10 years so I feel like this was the opportunity to talk about what his life will look like and then we can move on with like regular deep dives going forward but I just didn't feel like you could miss this opportunity to talk about you know prison life yeah the culture he'll be he'll be in and yeah fascinating so like normal oh did you have something else nope go ahead

Like normal, we have our little spiel at the end. We have our Instagram, digging up the Duggars pod. Then we have our email, digging up the Duggars at Gmail. And if you can, if you like what you're listening to, you join us for this journey every week. We'd love for you to give us a rate on Apple Podcasts. We've seen a couple more this week. And on Spotify. And actually, I can totally tell that.

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