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Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Dig the Well. This time we're doing a special edition of Dig the Well. It's not at our house, as you can tell, right? It's less our house of the winery. So we're up in wine country up in NorCal. So we're in the Sonoma Valley, and we have a very, very special guest. She's the owner operator of Optima Wines here in, right outside of Healdsburg, right? Correct. Yeah. And, it's her name is Nicole Duffy. Welcome to Dig the Well.
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
So, let me ask you because this is, I've heard and read so many different stories of people who own wineries, and every single one of them is interesting. It's like a long journey. What was your journey? Why why a winery?
Well, my husband was making wine as a child. And he lived up in Oregon. And one day his dad said, we can go get some grapes and make some wine. And he said it was the best thing that he had made. So he declared himself wanting to go to UC Davis when he was just a freshman in high school and, obviously made it into Davis. And so it was kind of that passion between art and mechanics. He he's a great mechanic as well, like can do a lot of things with his hands.
Yeah, that makes sense. That seems like it'd go hand in hand, so to speak. Yeah, for sure. Now how much how long was he at school then at UC Davis?
Four years he got an Enology degree. He was one of the very first classes of enology at UC Davis. Really?
Yeah. That's interesting. And then how so you guys have been in the winemaking business an awful long time.
Right? My husband, this will be his forty eighth harvest. Wow. Yeah. Mhmm. We started the winery forty one years ago. Yeah. So a long time.
So walk me through that. How how does how does it go from a basically, what looks like a dead piece of wood, right, in the in the when it's dormant. The vines aren't there's no foliage on them. Right? And then it goes from that to grapes, and then it turns into some like spectacular wine. How does it all come about?
How does it all come about? Well, interesting, a vine itself determines how many grapes it's going to push out a year in advance. So you know, even though we might have a very wet winter, that doesn't necessarily mean that we will have a lot of grapes per vine, because it goes off the prior year.
Well, that's interesting. Yeah. I never heard that. Mhmm. And then the whole process after after you guys decide to harvest, and I'm sure there's a lot that goes into when you harvest, right? Correct. It has to do with probably like the sugar content and whatnot.
And the pHs. Yeah. Mhmm. So we walk all the vineyards, and we pull berries from all different clusters throughout the entire vineyard, and that's called a vineyard sample. And then we crush it up and we put it through a like a little machine that's a refractometer.
Mhmm.
And it tells us what the sugar is. And then obviously, we check all the other does it have acid? You know, those kinds of components.
Right.
But after this long of being in business, you just know, you just learn your vineyard. So you just know, we do test it, but we can basically call it now.
Yeah, I'll bet. I'll bet you guys have this figured out. And then once you harvest the grapes go, what's the process at that point?
Do you want to talk red or white?
Red. Okay.
My favorite too. So the grapes come in to the winery very early in the morning, we always pick late at night because you want your grapes to be very cold. Otherwise, you're playing catch up. So they come in about six in the morning. And we typically will crush it, we just stem it, crush it, put it into the tank.
And we call we call it cold fermenting. So our I'm sorry, backup. Cold soaking, where it sits on the skins because all juice of grapes is actually white, it's the skin that gives its its color. And so we'll do that for about twenty four to forty eight hours depending on the variety. And then once we're finished with that, we add the yeast, and it starts fermentation.
So fermentation, you turn sugar into alcohol. And we pump it over several times where we basically take the top of the grapes and pull them through the tank and, you know, it just is constantly kind of beating it up to get more color out of it. And then what happens next after it's done fermenting, the lighter reds will then get pressed. Big Cabernets will go into what we call extended a maceration where it actually is done fermenting all the alcohol is there. It sits on the skins, and we only lightly dust it with its juice.
You know, we don't beat it up. We just sprinkle a little bit of white on it or wine on it. And that breaks down the tannins in a Cabernet so that the tannins are not so in your face. Wow. Yeah. And then it gets pressed, goes into barrel, and then the real work happens.
And then how long is it gonna be in the barrel?
On the wine, but Zinfandel's sixteen to eighteen months, Cabernet's anywhere from twenty four to thirty six months depending on, you know, every that's the great thing about the wine industry is every winemaker is completely different, you know, and what barrel they use and and all kinds of things. It's just, you know, it's art.
Yeah. It is. And I've I've seen that there's different types of oak. And then how much do are any of your barrels or do you guys char the barrels, the oak barrels before the wine goes in?
So barrels, we use all French oak in the winery. And they get charred at the barrel company. So we're a medium toast mostly on most of our wines. And but there are various toasts.
It there's such a science to this. And, you know, it's a lot of finesse, but it just it's amazing how much science there is involved in winemaking. So we've tried making wine at home, not in the bathtub. So one of my buddies that I used to work with, he had this idea. He said, hey, let's make wine. It's it's not that difficult. Right? You get the kits kind of a thing. Yeah. So we did that.
And we we ended up getting a little little bottle, little quart present bottle, you know, the whole deal. We did the whole thing. And the wine wasn't bad. It wasn't great.
Didn't have to make salad dressing out of it. Right.
It was, let's say, the first one wasn't that good. The other ones were kind of palatable, and then they were just it was fun to do. And it was more or less we just wanted to do that and just learn a little bit about the process. And then we realized very quickly that it's, we'll leave it up to the professionals to do. And then another buddy of mine, another old partner of mine, decided he wanted to make beer.
And that's a lot. That was a lot of work. So not into the beer. I made I made one thing of beer. Mean, our kids got us got me for Father's Day a beer making kit. Uh-huh. It was an absolute disaster. That that just went down the drain.
Did it bubble over?
No, it didn't. It hardly bubbled at all. Oh. That was the other part. It was kind of flat. So anyway, so I'm not gonna try that anymore. But your wines are spectacular. I remember the first time we were at this winery, Vicki and I were here. It was just this past December, wasn't it, Vic? She's in the background.
She's she's the the roadie today. And then we were at a different winery, and the one next door, was Kokomo, very good wines. And they highly recommended us to stop over here at Optum. And that's when we met Mike and Nicole. And we tried their wine and it is amazing. If you guys are if anyone's up in this area, and you should come up here, you've got to stop in and see them. How would they find you?
Well, we are online at optimawinery.com. And we're in the Dry Creek Valley. And we always accept walk ins. What's that Duffy?
Yeah, we Vicki grabbed a bottle so you can see. It's amazing what you guys do. So how did you and Mike meet?
That's a funny story. So I was born and raised in Santa Rosa, which is literally 18 miles south of here. And I was a widow. And I had an 11 year old son. And it was time for me to buy a house and my parents said, you can't buy here, here and here in Santa Rosa.
And I'd heard about a housing development in Healdsburg, came up here and bought my first home. And, my son's only requirement was he wanted to try out for the comp soccer team. So we tried out, he made it, and, we're traveling around playing soccer, and a parent can come up to me and ask me, you know, I heard you're a widow. Yes. And they said, well, you know, the coach became a widow about a year ago, and he had three boys.
So he could use some tips. You can imagine a man with three boys like running his own business like that's overwhelming. Yeah. So I went up to him and I said, hey, I'm I've been through this. I can help you.
And we're traveling home one night from Eureka, which is way up north. And I invited him over for a glass of wine. Now, before I finish this story, I knew he owned a winery. I knew he was a winemaker, but I did not drink wine. So I didn't really care that he owned a winery because everybody in Healdsburg is in the wine business.
Yeah.
So I kinda was nervous. I went to the little local wine shop and I said, give me your best Chardonnay because if you don't drink, you start at Chardonnay. Right? So that's where I was. And when he came over, I pulled out the bottle and he had a big smile on his face and I thought to myself, well, he must like it. Right? And he goes, who told you? And I said, who told me what? And he goes, that's my winery. I make that wine.
Oh my gosh.
Out of all the wines. Mhmm. Wow. Yeah. Right? And I said, well, let me taste it. And I tasted it. And I said, you know, everybody is in the wine business. I was kind of flirting, joking. And I said, everybody here in Healesburg is in the wine business. And I'm an accountant. That's not fun. So I need to marry you so I can get in. And he asked me, he goes, I have one question. He said, what?
And I he goes, do you drink red wine? I said, I don't drink. And he said, when you grow up and drink red wine, I'll marry you. So two and a half years later, it was our petite sirin that made me fall in love with wine. And I got married and quit my day job and landed on the cellar floor learning everything about the wine
business. Wow. Mhmm. And you figured probably if you look back in your past, you would never have thought you would end up in this industry. No. Here you are.
Yeah. Mhmm. Right? And I'm so thankful.
How cool is that? How things change so quickly? Yeah. Yeah. So the business side of running a winery, how difficult is that?
It's, it's becoming more and more difficult. In the eighties, it was fairly easy. Our wines would sell out, in less than six months. So, you didn't really need to worry about, all the things that you have to worry about today. I think it's because, distribution is a lot smaller and there's so many more wineries.
Yeah. We've noticed that too. It seems like there's wineries everywhere.
Yeah. So, you know, what once was people would call you and beg you to carry your wine, now you, the reverse is happening.
Now do you supply wine, your wines at restaurants? Would we find them there?
Restaurants and local wine shops. We are not in big box stores.
Right. Right. Yeah. And then the restaurants, are they all local restaurants or some of them are outside of the area?
Most are outside of the state. Oh, really? Believe it or not. When my when my husband started in '84, there was, you know, 25 wineries in Sonoma County, all trying to fight the space. And so he thought, well, I'll go outside of California. And he really hit up the Midwest and the East Coast. And so we're very strong in those markets. Yeah.
Oh, that's great. That's awesome. So if for folks that don't know, like where Sonoma is, like everyone knows of Napa, right? In Denver, California. So that's the next valley over. Sonoma runs parallel with Napa. But we've fallen in love with the wines here and the people here in this valley. Nothing wrong with Napa whatsoever. Yeah. But we've just found lately that my wife and I, Vicki and I, just, we end up here, we end up in the Sonoma Valley and we just go to the wineries in this area.
The only nice thing is Sonoma has an airport. Yeah. Right? Napa does not.
Right. Right.
The other thing too is for those of you all that like NASCAR, there's a racetrack here in Sonoma. Yes. Yeah. So there's a lot to do out here. And the weather is absolutely beautiful.
It's gorgeous.
What is it? Mid seventies?
Yeah. Today it is. Mhmm.
Yeah. It's just been beautiful. Mhmm.
My husband started his career in Napa. And so I often have asked him, know, would you do you wish you had started the winery in Napa because he would have been, you know, one of the pioneers there. And he said, you know, no. And I was kind of surprised by that. But he said, know, Napa is very serious business.
You know, it's the hundred dollar poker table. It's, you know, we're we're more the $20 poker table. We we don't have the big chateaus that, you know, we need to price our wines into and you know, we don't have the ego, hate to say that, but we don't have the ego that Napa does. You'll meet the owners over here. You know, we're just more down to earth. We're just just more down to earth.
Yeah.
We're what Napa was, you know, sixty years ago.
Yeah. That's so true because when we've gone through Napa and we stop at the wineries and we're looking at the overhead that some of these have and and I'm thinking, you know, it's not, the operation is so large and these beautiful, beautiful buildings they're in. And there are a lot of them are Gorgeous. Pre prohibition, era type buildings. And it's just they're absolutely gorgeous on these massive grounds.
I'm thinking, good grief. This is just a big corporation here. And it's fun. Like you said, we get to meet owners. We talk sit down, have share wine with, with people who are actually working the winery. It's it's really nice. We love it here.
Well, thank you.
So any you've got any do you have anything else? I'm kind of running out of wine questions.
Running out of wine questions. Let's see. You want me to give you a little history of wine?
Yeah.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Okay. So there was a gentleman named Andrey Chelichev who he escaped Russia. He has a fascinating biography, but he escaped Russia. And he went to the premier college in Europe, in France. And George de la Tour at BV brought him over after prohibition.
And he basically taught all the pioneers in Napa after prohibition, Mendavi and Gurgic and all the big names, and taught them how to make wine. Because we remember we were making wine, you know, for churches during prohibition. And, it was according to Andre, it was terrible. So he really taught us a lot of, techniques that he had learned. And if I were to say two people that really put California on the map would be Andre Chilichev and then Robert Mondavi's ego, who was shouted from the rooftops, look at us.
So, you know, we still carry forward many of the things that he has taught. My husband actually trained under him after leaving Napa for about twelve years and fell in love with Cabernet. And anyone who loves history of wine should really check out his biography because it's amazing.
Wow. That's interesting. You know, when you mentioned his name, I've never heard his name before.
That's because there's not a lot of old timers left.
So we didn't talk about white wine so much. Yeah. And you guys have some great whites because we've we had some the last time we tried it was which was yesterday. And they were really good.
Well, thank you. You know, we got away from the chardonnay business. And, we make a dry Gewurztraminer. And, I absolutely love that. A lot of people shy away from Gewurzdemeanor because they think it's sweet because California kind of, you know, ruined Gewurzdemeanor.
We make it Alsatian style, so more French. And it is a beautiful food friendly wine. And then we make a Maya's blend, which is my little granddaughter who is now nine. And it's a Sauble Blanc Pickpoole. And Pickpoole is a Rhone varietal. So, very, very food friendly. But if you want to talk about the winemaking, it's kind of easier to make white wine.
Is it? Uh-huh.
Yeah. Literally comes in the winery, cold stabilize, you throw it in the press, doesn't get crushed or anything. You throw it in the press and you press it off. And then it ferments on, you know, in the juice you throw in the the, yeast and whatnot. So it's a lot easier process to make white wine.
And that's why it comes out faster. It doesn't, you know, necessarily it's either stainless steel or barrel fermented, those kinds of things. So maybe you should have started with white wine when you were making
I know. Right. But I'm just we're just not white fan we're not fans of white well, I'm trying to trying to develop a palate so I be more well rounded. And I've been trying to trying to drink whites a little bit a little more here and there. But I still still like the reds. Yeah. It's just so much so much more of a red wine. Yeah. Yeah. There was something I was thinking, oh, naming the wines. Yeah. Now you guys I noticed you have some interesting names to your wines.
Are you talking about Maya and Madison? Yeah. So we just came out with a Bordeaux blend, which is five different grapes. So it has Cabernet, Merlot, Cab Franc, Petite Verdot, and Malbec in it. So it's beautiful.
And that little bottle's name is Madison. And that's my seven year old granddaughter. But she was upset that her sister had a wine. And typically, my husband said, Well, I can't just make her you know, a nice white, she's the second child, you know, and oftentimes that second child has a little bit more grit. And so he wanted to make a little bit bigger and bolder wine.
So he went with red little and she'll actually be able to drink it when she's 21 versus Maya, you know. So we're excited about that. And then we make PMZ, which is a petite Merlot and Zin blend. And then we make a CMP, which is Camerlot Petite Verdot Blend. And how we came up with those two names, you want to you want the honest truth? We co fermented both of those. And he wrote on the barrels, CMP, PMZ to differentiate them from the cabs and Zins and Petite Sirahs and those that we make.
Yeah, that's That's it. That's it. So how many grandkids do you have?
I have three.
Three. So you have two that have you've named two wines after
Yes. And then we have a little boy. And we have a little grandson, and we think he deserves a tequila or something, you know. Yeah. The third one is whoo.
Yeah.
Right? They're a wrecking ball. So we need a tequila or a or something.
That's what I was thinking. Maybe do like a bourbon barrel aged
something. Cabernet?
Yeah. Yeah. That might be for him.
You know, we sell our barrels ironically for spirits and breweries by our barrels.
Yeah. Because I've seen a lot of that, where they're aging them in, red wine barrels. Mhmm. That just makes sense that complements one another. Yeah. Yeah, for
sure. So let's go do the reverse. Right? Take their bourbon barrel and put some Cab in it.
Yeah. I'll try it.
Alright.
Well, it's been a lot of fun. I'm glad, that we had this opportunity to to learn about the wine business.
Yeah. Well, thank you, John.
And, you know, thinking back on it, would you do anything differently? Because I know this is a not a typical business. And I you know, you've talked about, you know, how the the winemaking itself is there's so much to it. Then you've got the business side of it, which is difficult. Would you do anything different if you had to do over again?
Gosh. I've been thinking since you started talking. And, you know, I'm not sure I would. Mhmm. I mean, I love this business. Our passion is is in it. I've never woken up and said, I don't want to go to work. You know, and if you can find that, then you're successful, right? Because I woke up every day as an accountant not wanting to go to work. So I'm very fortunate.
Yeah, there's so much wisdom in that. Because like they say, you can no matter what you do, if you love what you do, it's never work. Right. And that's true. It's a passion.
And, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, because that's the way it was for me when I was going to work. And it was to the point where it wasn't the same job that I signed up for in the 90s. And things had changed so much, it wasn't I wasn't really enjoying it so much anymore. And then Vicki and I have had home businesses, you know, from the very beginning. And so then I just focused more on our home based business. And then I'm so much happier.
Right.
You know, it's just it's
You work a lot more.
Yeah.
But it's not the same kind of work where, you know, yours and
you're working for your dreams, not someone else's. Right. So yeah, for sure. Well, anyways, thank you so much, Nicole. It was such a such a pleasure, being here. And then again, if anyone's up in Northern California, and if you come up to the Sonoma Valley, which you should look up Optima wines, you can find them online and come up to their beautiful tasting room up here and meet Nicole. Yes. Mike is sometimes here.
Yeah, sometimes Mike comes in. Yes. He prefers the seller. You know, he's kind of an introvert, and I'm an extrovert. So, you know, it works great.
So anyways, come up here and meet meet them, share some wine with them, and you guys won't be sorry. So thanks for joining us on Dig the We'll see you next time.
Bye.
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