You're listening to another MIA podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has been a fundamental part of indigenous culture.
Hi.
I'm Cassania Lukit and this is diary of a birth. Birth is different all over the world, both culturally and financially. And while I'm fairly familiar with the way the system works here in Australia, what does pregnancy and birth look like in a socially democratic society like Sweden. Today's mum had her first two children here in Australia and looking for adventure, her and her Swedish partner flew across the world and relocated to Sweden. Then she unexpectedly felt pregnant.
Navigating pregnancy halfway around the world wasn't always easy, especially with a very unexpected complication during birth.
I just grabbed Gustaf and I was like, I can feel everything. Please stop.
So let's meet today's mum.
Hi. I'm Eliza and this is the diary of my birth with August.
So you were a part of the Mom and Maya family.
Yes.
So I'm the head of content at MoMA Mia and it's so funny. This is actually my first podcast. I'm normally behind the scenes, but I love this show and I think every woman loves to tell their birth story, so here I am.
As we know, every birth story is very different, and I think what makes yours really interesting is that you actually gave birth with your third child in Sweden.
Yeah, and that was nothing that I had really expected. So I had two kids and my husband and I packed up our lives and we moved to Sweden during COVID. My husband Swedish, so it wasn't a random decision or a random country. But we hopped on the plane. There was only ten other people on the plane. It was due at the height of the pandemic. And we went just for a year for an adventure, and we arrived and we ended up loving it, and we both ended
up getting jobs that we didn't expect. It just became great. Everything seemed to really be working for us there. A couple of months in, it would have been like six months in. At this time, it's like November in Sweden, so it's starting to snow, it's starting to get really cold. We just had such a great summer and I started feeling really sick, and one day I was like, oh my god, I'm pregnant. I was actually in a cubicle at work, like I'd gone to work early because I
was like, what's going on with me? I just felt, you know, you just know. And I did this pregnancy test and look, it wasn't something we had necessarily wanted. It was definitely a surprise and it was really hard. Like I saw that test and I was across the other side of the world on what we thought was this adventure year. And we had also had discussions before
where we were like, oh, maybe our family's done. So you know, this happened, and you know, you're thirty four and you're like, of course, like we should do this, you know, but you still felt so much guilt. I felt so much guilt that I could fall pregnant when a lot of my friends in Australia were trying to fall pregnant with their first or second baby, and here I was with a surprise baby. And so there was
a lot like it was a very hard pregnancy. Those first couple of weeks of Oh my gosh, I'm across the other side of the world. I'm away from my close family. I still have my husband's family here, of course, but none of my best friends are here. I've fallen pregnant when a lot of other people would love to be pregnant. I don't even know if I want this. So it was there's a lot to take in. And then coupled with that, I'm heading into my first winter
in Stockholm. So the temperature is minus twenty one degrees, you can't go outside. I had never even experienced snow. I'd never seen snow before. So the darkness, the coldness, coupled with this strange like I don't know what's next for my life, and then extreme morning sickness. So I was so sick to the point I ended up in hospital quite a few times actually, and there was one incident in hospital where my throat was so sore. I ended up having strep throat and I couldn't communicate with
the doctors. And because it was during COVID, you were only allowed to go to the hospital, so my husband was at home looking after them. I can barely communicate with the doctors. I just want to go home. Like it was really really hard at the start. But at the like ten week mark, we told my mum and my dad as well my in laws, and they were so excited for us, and I think at that point we were like, yes, lose this attitude. We are so excited. We are already parents of two. We know how to
do this. We can bring this child up. It is actually going to be okay. And so that kind of put a lot of our you know, it was still a cold to take in. It quashed a lot of our worries. And then what was so nice was we told the boys. So we have two boys at that time, they would have been four and five, so we had them quite close. Because you had them so close, I never got to see the oldest really understand that he
was getting a younger brother. So it was just incredible to be able to tell them and they were like, what do you mean we got a baby? Like wow, how did the baby come? And I was like, oh, you're six, we're not talking about that yet. But that was really exciting. Like, so, what was so interesting about this pregnancy was that we were so nervous and scared about it, but everyone around us was so excited it
also just changed everything. It meant that we stayed in Stockholm longer, and yeah, it was really really incredible.
Yeah, I want to go back a little bit to the guilt thing because I actually find that really interesting because I struggled to fall pregnant with my first and I had a lot of friends who did fall pregnant and hesitated telling me because they didn't want to make me feel bad. It's interesting that you said that you felt guilt. Was there someone in your life who was really trying and you felt that guilt particularly.
Yeah, before we left to go to Sweden, two of my best friends were both trying and we had had lots of conversations, the three of us. They were both trying for their second child, and we'd had a lot of conversations like where they were like, it's just not working, We're doing everything, what about this? And I was really part of those conversations with them, And so when I found out when it had been a surprise, I did immediately go, oh my god, it is a really hard feeling.
But the irony actually was both of them were pregnant, so I told them and they told me, and all of our kids are actually around two weeks apart, so it did all work out, but it doesn't for everyone, and it is really hard. And I think what's really hard about pregnancy is even I found this with my first I have always been quite sick in my pregnancies
and I haven't loved it. And you have this like internal struggle where you're so excited and you know how lucky you are, but you also know people would want to be in your place, so you don't want to complain too much about it. I do think there is this really interesting pool that we have when it comes to fertility privilege, because like I do think I am very fortunate when it comes to like my fertility privilege, but it doesn't mean like every moment has been really easy.
I think the empathy that you show is really beautiful, and I think that anyone that is struggling with fertility and has that empathy, that's kind of what a friendship needs. I know this isn't really what this is about, but I'm really fascinated by that because I remember counting the amount of people that felt pregnant while we were trying, and it like hurt every time, and it was one of those things where it was like I'm really happy
for them, but I'm really sad for me. Yeah. So it's that kind of double edge sold And I'm sure that you felt the same that You're like, I feel really happy, but then I'm like this guilt of you know, my friends who really want that.
But also I found like with my first, my first took longer, and I do remember I'd see pregnant woman walking down the street and I'd be like, oh, I hate her. Yeah, And so it's one of those things when you do go you know both sides. You're like, I know that this person would be happy for me, but I also would hate me. Like, so it's so conflicated. It's just part of being women, and like the empathy.
Women do feel like you're right, like I do think women are just socially can understand these situations probably better than men, Like how hard it is to try and how hard it is to want something and not get it, and so when that comes to you really easily, you do feel guilt.
Let's move on to being pregnant in Sweden. Now, obviously you didn't speak the language, you had two small children who were in daycare school. How did that process work?
Yeah, so I was working full time in Sweden. I was working for Voke Scandinavia. It was all done in English, so it's a very easy huntry to get around with English. So I was very lazy learning Swedish. The Swedish system, it's a social democratic system, so it's incredible. I kick myself while I'm not still there. It's so incredible. All
of daycare, all of the schooling is paid for. So I think our BI bills were probably equivalent of about one hundred and fifty dollars Australian a month a month, and that's full time sorry for childcare for childcare, yeah wow, yeah, so I know, it's so silly. Why am I not there? Yeah, so they're in childcare full time. I was working full time, so it was all relatively quite easy in that sense that, you know, I had quite a lot of care and
support around that. The prenatal care was very different in the sense that in Australia I had gone through the private system, so I had an obstetrician who then I saw every week of whatever you know when you do it every eight weeks. But in Sweden, once again it's you pay high taxes, but it does mean a lot of that healthcare is free, so it's really rare to have private I wouldn't even know how to go about it.
What the system is. It is a midwife program, so you have a provider that you go to and it's this same midwife, and if she's away, there's two others that you work with, so you're always meeting the same midwife in a location near you. Actually, those locations normally then have a nurse who then you see afterwards with your child, so it's quite nice. It's the before and after care is all done in one space. Then you do your scans at a hospital where then you see
a doctor at the scans. But what was interesting is Sweden didn't do the blood test that you can do in Australia to find out the sexbat Yeah, so I had found out quite early the sex of my first two boys, so it wasn't until a scan at halfway scan that I found out the sex when it came to August and he was another boy. There were a few differences, Yeah, I think definitely the Swedish system is a lot more hands off in the sense that there's
not as many tests. They're just a bit more chill like just in general the society is a lot more chill.
So yeah, because I mean it's fairly normal here in Australia at that sort of ten eleven week mark to do a nit test. You know, you do the blood test for the genetic testing and you can find out the sex. And like you, I was very impatient and found out straight away. But they don't even offer that.
No, no, it wasn't even offered.
Did that frustrate you or were you okay with that? Yes?
I was like, what do you mean I have to wait twenty weeks? How dare you? Yeah? So as a really impatient person, it did frustrate me. I'm sure if you looked into it more potentially, but it wasn't even offered. Yeah, it was just interesting. There was just little things. We never did the glucose tests, okay, yeah. I think there's also different diseases in Sweden, so there was different vaccinations that I had to receive, so there was just some differences.
It's really interesting giving birth in a different place.
I just think it's fascinating to hear about the different systems and obviously Sweden have an incredible healthcare system and to have it all that support is amazing. But to hear those little, those little mayor differences is quite interesting.
Yeah, because I think when I went private in Australia, each time you see your obstitution, you're doing a scan and you're seeing the baby. I didn't see the baby as much. I only saw the baby once or twice on scans, So it was Yeah, it just is more chill. I think that's the best way to say it.
And what about the actual birthing process. Is there a bit more of a push first home births or midwa free support or what is the general consensus of birth in Sweden?
It's very much whatever you want. It's not really a push for anything. Like I said, they're very chill like. They're so like, oh yeah, if you want to do formula, do formula, if you don't want to breastfeed, whatever. For me, I had had an emergency caesar for my first birth, so I'd then had a planned caesar for my second because it was within an eighteen month period, and so with August, they weren't even going to let me try a vaginal birth, which I was so happy with.
Okay, so you've spoken to your providers and you're locking in your C section date. When did you do that?
So I think we locked in the date probably at around the twenty week mark. They're like, okay, we'll put you in for the ninth of August. And it was all really planned and really quite simple and easy. I did have some pretty bad oh by the end. I was just like so heavy and the pressure. I was in quite a lot of pain at the end, and
I did. There was a few times where I'm like, I think I might be going into labor, Like it really hurts, I can't walk anymore, you know, just that pain, that heavy pain, And so I'd just turn up at the hospital and be like I'm in pain and they're like, okay, come and lie down and we'll test you. So it was quite good. Every time. They were so sweet. Every time that would turn up, they'd be like, you're just exhausted, like you have two kids, in a full time job
and you're carrying a baby, like just go home. But the system made you never feel like you were overreacting or they were always just like no, it's always better to be safe than sorry, which I found, like you find in Australia as well. It was really lovely care coming up like I'd have flashbacks and be like, oh, that was really scary. It's really interesting. I think had August have been my first, I would have found it probably hard to want to have another baby.
You go in on your planned day, you're at your sort of thirty nine week mark. Tell me about the preparation.
So I am so ready to have this baby. Oh my god. Like I was huge and just felt so heavy and so sore and so bloody tired. So I was so ready to have this baby. Also, it was summer, So summer in Sweden is incredible because everyone just shuts down. So everyone goes on like a five way holiday because it like is literally twenty two degrees, which is like a heat wave there, so they're all like, yay, let's
get out there. No one's working. I'd had like four weeks off where we'd traveled and you know, I'd waddled around, but I'd had some really nice time with the boys, who were then on holidays as well. We lived near our in laws, so the boys were all planned to go there. I'd bought like a cute little matching set for the of the hospital, packed my bags. I was really prepped. My parents were also going to fly from Australia to come, so once I was out of hospital,
they would be there. So I was feeling like maybe probably a little bit arrogant, like I was like, I've got this, this is great. So I went in really calm, expecting that it would all be fine and that, like I knew the drill a little bit, you.
Felt prepared and you were prepared.
Yeah, tell us.
What happened when they gave you the spinal tap?
Yeah, so look that part I remember with my second I remember walking in to have a CAESAR and being like, oh wow, this is a lot clinical than I thought, Like you're going to labor and you're like cool, I'm having a baby, and you're in that mindset. And then I ended up having emergency caesar, which was actually fine and beautiful and I loved it. But then the second time around, having a planned CAESAR, I realized that you're going in for an operation, and I did actually find
that quite nerve wracking. And I do remember like shaking as you're getting because before I was in labor, so having a spinal tap and when you're in labor it's kind of part of it, but to go in cold and have that in your back, like it is quite nerve wracking, Like I'm quite scared of needles. I was, like I was a bit nervous about that.
Is good stuff with you at this point.
So you wheeled into the room. So your husband comes with you. He's in his scrubs. You know, all the doctors speak English. Obviously their first language is Swedish, so they probably talk Swedish to each other, but everyone can speak English to me. So I feel completely fine and I'm at ease beneath it. Us is so lovely. She explains what she's going to do. She puts a spinal tap in. She moves me into the room, and then what they do is to test that the area is
numb to cut, they use ice. So with a C section, you still can feel the tugging because you are awake. It's just you don't feel the pain and new that and I know how it feels. So it's quite a strange sensation because you are numb, but you still know that they're there. So they're doing the ice tests and you can feel one part of you feels the ice is cold, and then the other part's just kind of not meant to feel it. She just kept doing it to me, and I was like, no, I can still
feel it. I can still feel it. So they put more in, They put more of the anesthetic in, and this just keeps happening for about maybe forty minutes. At this point, you're so to have a baby. I'm kind of also confused because you know that it's not meant to be cold, but you know that you still can feel it. So by this point, I also was just so desperate to have this baby that I was like, I think it's working. Because they were like, oh, look, maybe we have to come back and try again if
you don't think it's working. And I was like, no, I think it's working. And they're like, yeah, we've given you quite a lot, like it should be working. So I was like, no, no, I think it's workings, let's go.
So they believed you. They believe that you still felt that because I think I've heard stories of people who were like I can feel pain, like no, no, no, it's fine. They were reassuring you.
Yeah, they were reassuring, and they were like, Okay, we've put this in, we'll try again. We'll give you more time. This exchange had gone on four forty minutes and they were like this, it's been forty minutes now, like we kind of have to either call it and cry and come back this afternoon or we give it like five more minutes. And I was like, no, I think I
can't feel anything, so like, let's go. They obviously start the operation and a C section takes about eight minutes, so it's incredibly fast, and it is It's so incredible because it's like within eight minutes you have this baby. And so they put up the screen. I'm holding Gustaf's hand and they're cutting and you can still like feel a little bit. And then there's just one point where I will never forget this moment. I just grabbed Gustaff and I was like, I can feel every like I
can feel everything. Please stop. And at that point they all start speaking Swedish. They rush, they push good stuff out of the room, and they go, okay, we need to put you under. So they put me under general anesthetic and I'm completely then knocked out.
So you've felt them cut you open.
Yeah, So what I had felt was I think they'd done one layer, that it had worked. But then it was like I don't know the medical facts, but there are a few different layers that they cut through, and it was maybe the third layer that I could feel, and at that point I was just I will never forget the grip on my husband. I was just like I can feel this, Please help. Yeah, screamed and I just remember like no, no, no, no, no stop. So I like, yeah, it was all over for me. They
knocked me out so quickly. I was under general anesthetic. So during that time they then continued to operate where I was completely knocked out. August was then born and he was examined and given to my husband to do skin on skin, and then I woke up maybe half an hour later, and I woke up and I was like, oh, I really needed that sleep, and they're like, you have a baby. I was like, oh okay, because you're so disorientated. You know when you wake up from an operation and
you're a bit disorientated. I woke up and I was like, oh, oh, I have a baby. It was bizarre. It was really bizarre.
Bizar's definitely one would I just want to go back. So they were very very fast with this. You said I feel this, and the anetheist comes and just basically knocks you out. There was no yeah, are you ready to be knocked out? It was like not, We're putting you under.
It was a flurry and it was good stuff. You have to leave. You can't be here for years. We need to put her under. And you feel like you're in a medical show where it's that flurry around you. And it was like, okay, like everyone out, We've got to put her under. When I woke up, I didn't kind of realize the extent of what I'd gone through a little bit. I had August. He was safe, he
was really great baby, he fed really well. So I don't think it was until like a couple of months later when things got hard, you know, when you're waking up at night, like I'd have flashbacks and be like, oh, that was really scary. It's really interesting. I think had August have been my first, I would have found it probably hard to want to have another baby. Maybe. Yeah, it's one of those if I think about too long,
it was quite scary. Yeah, but in the moment, like the next day, and because you have a baby, you kind of just soldier on a bit.
I completely understand that. I'm just thinking about how quickly that happened and Obviously you're probably not entirely cognizant of what's going on, But has good staff told you what he felt when he was basically pushed out of the room. Yeah, he was like it happened so quickly. He's like, I just was not allowed to be there. And then he's like, but it was nice, like I got to have Orgie and I knew you were safe. Like he knew it was bad, but no one felt endangered. Yeah, so it
was just more oh my god, like what's happening. It was also just so quick.
I think, yeah, he probably loved that he got to have the baby first. But it's funny when you wake up and you're so drugged. There's video of me and like what I'm saying, it's like almost comical. It's like one of those like hilarious comedies where the person wakes up on painkillers and what I'm saying, it's ridiculou. I'm embarrassed.
Did you wake up and go, am I pregnant? Or have I had a baby?
Like? I was just like that was the first sleep of my life, and I was like, it was really good that it happened like this, Like I just really needed a sleep and because I was like, you've literally been out for thirty minutes.
It must have been a really good nap.
It was a great thirty minute nap, but it was not ideal what happened?
No, and then August came and how soon after you woke up or you able to hold him?
They put him on my chest pretty soon, And so that's where there's like video of me and he's on my chest and I'm like, aren't you cute? Where did you get this little beanie from? Like that's quite funny footage because I'm still very like coming to after the general anesthetic. So he was on my chest straight away. I could start feeding him straight away. I also knew the drill that often with cesareans you can't get up and walk after twenty four hours. I knew that my
recovery would be like that. It was interesting. The next day the Unethodus came and spoke to me and she said, look, I honestly did everything right. If I had to do that, Docige, I would still do it again. And I said, why
do you think this happened to me? And she just said, I'm quite tall, and she's like, sometimes it's to do with height, but it had worked the other two times that I'd had it, So yeah, she was like, I really don't understand what went wrong, and you know, she guess she apologized for what happened and tried to talk me through it. But at the end of the day, like, I got a healthy baby and I'm healthy, so it was all fine.
Yeah, but I mean you can also acknowledge the fact that that's quite a kind of crazy. You're in a different country, you don't speak the language, there's people around you. All of a sudden, there's a flurry of activity, and then you wake up and there's a baby. Yeah.
Oh yeah, it was really crazy, and it's really interesting. In Sweden, they have this tradition where once you and they all talk about it, like as soon as you get pregnant, they're like, oh my god, you get the sandwiches. You have his baby, and they wheel you back to your room and they have these like little sandwiches that everyone gets and they put these little Swedish flags in the sandwich and they give you like fake champagne, and so you go and you have your Like it's just
it's this weird tradition. And so I was just like I have his baby and now I'm having my fake champagne and my sandwich with a Swedish flag and this is lovely.
I mean the least they could do is give you a all that.
Yeah, I know I needed it. What was interesting with the recovery though, I do think it did take longer because they definitely don't give you as hard painkillers as Australia. It was really hard to get, Like I was like, I need something stronger than paned all, like this is really sore. In Australia, they will constant make sure you're not in pain, especially after a Caesar. But I found in Sweden I was literally like can I please have more?
Can I please have more? And it was it was actually a real fight to get anything stronger than a pan at all. So I don't know why that is, but that was something.
Because as I understand it, if you have a Caesar in Australia, they'll give you like an endome or something for the first day or.
So or even longer. I think if you're like they in Australia, they just make sure that you're just not in pain at all. So I think in Australia you're on a very much a tight schedule of like ending panadol where possible, like every four hours, you're taking painkillers so you're never in pain. In Sweden they didn't even offer endome. That's my one piece of feedback for the
Swedish medical system. That recovery was really hard. What was also really interesting about Sweden was they are really into skin to skin, so they actually don't even give you a cot in the room. Oh yeah, so you go back to your room and there's nowhere to put the baby down, and you don't stay in the hospital as long. Well, you know, in Australia I stayed in hospital maybe five nights with the caesar, but in Sweden they kind of
want you to go home as soon as you can. Yeah, they don't have cots because it's all like the baby needs to be on your chest basically the whole time. So I found that's really strange because I was like, God, I just put him down for one second, but there's nowhere to put him down to encourage that like connection. The other thing that was really interesting is that they don't swaddle, so I had like taken my little swaddles from Australia. I'd made all my friends like, send me
the materials that you like. I love the little Fraser swaddles, Jersey ones and so I was like swaddling him and they're like, what are you doing to your child? And I was like, oh, the ways you wake up. This is my plan. It's the more I reflex totally, and they just did. They were like, oh, this Australian that wants to put her baby down and swaddle it. There was just a few cultural differences as well.
How old was Augie when you came back to Australia.
So he was one when we moved back, which is ironic that he's a Swedish citizen what they all are, but he was actually born in Sweden and he's going to probably be the worst at Swedish well after me, after me.
Final question the post care. Did you get like a nurse coming in after you like you got home.
It's very similar to Australia. They come I think maybe two weeks after you come home and just see how you're going with the baby at home in your own environment. Then at the six week mark you see your midwife and then you continue with the nurse with the baby.
So if you have any questions and it was quite regular checkups with the nurse and you know, she would weigh the baby very very similar, very similar process to a earlier But it was great because you kind of had this one nurse that you were assigned to, and so if we had any problems with Orgie's health or there was a question we had, we would just call her. So that was really really great. And then in terms
of me, it was the same midwife afterwards. I think that care probably stopped after about maybe ten weeks, but it was still good that there was one person you could go to.
Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story and it's yeah, fascinating to hear that cultural difference, but terrifying as well with that season.
Thank you so much.
So what does a team do when a spinal tap doesn't work? To get the answer, we asked our favorite obstetrician and gynecologist, doctor Bronwin Devine.
Look, you can have an experience anitus who's done you know, thousands of these, and just some women they've had their spinal anesthetic can still feel pain. And people when they've had a spinal or an epidural, those regional blocks are designed to take away the sensation of pain and temperature because those nerve fibers run together. The way that the block works is to block the pain and temperature fibers, which is why they always test with ice. They say,
this feel cold here. It's definitely cold up here on your face, but down here on your tummy and below where your legs are. No, it doesn't feel cold. Yep, no, it doesn't feel cold. So that's why they're testing it with temperature, because pain and temperature are affected the same way by those regional blocks. But if someone can feel pain during surgery, it's absolutely traumatic for that person. It can result in terrible PTSD and you know, flashbacks and
things like that. It's just not okay. It's one of those things that just can't happen, you know. You hear these stories of people waking up under anesthesia when they're having other operations and how traumatic that is. You know, it's one of the absolute no, no, no, this cannot happen when people are having surgery. They cannot have the feeling of pain when they're having surgery performed on them.
So we try very hard to do our caesarean sections under regional block because it is much much safer for the mum doing a caesar under general anesthetic. A pregnant woman, particularly a heavily pregnant woman, will have quite a lot of airway compromise just by dint of being pregnant and the extra fluid in her body, and you know the fact that she's got a lot of pressure in her
abdomen and lots of things like that. So putting an endotra keel to you, which is what you have to have when you have a general anesthetic into someone when they have those extra complications of being pregnant, can be quite risky for the pregnant woman, and so it's become very much the norm to have caesarean sections performed under regional block, and an epidural takes quite a long time
to go in. So that's why when people are having caesars that are either done electively or they've got to be done as an emergency and there is no epidural present, an esos will try and put a spinal in because it can work very quickly and you can get the spinal in quickly. It's a lot safer for the mum. But if a spinal is not effective, then we really have to abandon it and go to a general anesthetic. And when that's the case, you know, it's quite a
high risk situation. The anthotist is always going to be quite tense about it. They need to get the partner out of the room because it's absolutely horrible seeing your loved one sort of become paralyzed and go off to sleep and be unresponsive. So they usually rush the partner out of the room and that's quite traumatic for them because they had every intention they were going to be
there to see their baby being born. And then you know, because you know the surgery is already started, the anesis is under a lot of pressure to get that person to sleep very very quickly, but they have to be very careful. They need to do some preoxygenation and make sure that you know, they've got absolutely perfect access to the airway and things like that. So it's it really is quite a high stress, tense situation.
And what about navigating different cultural requests in your practice.
Australia's a very multicultural society, so we care for lots and lots of people from many different cultures and often there are specific requests that people have because they're used to a different procedure or a different process. I've certainly looked after Swedish women in pregnancy, and I have a German couple who come to see me at the moment, and they've had their first child in Germany, and so they'll often come and say to me when we're in Germany,
they did this test. Do you offer that test? And you know when do I do this particular test, and sometimes bring the anti natal card from Germany and do a comparison to make sure that you know the things that they're used to are being offered here. I think in the Nordic countries, where the public health system is so well supported, it doesn't really make a lot of sense to do anything but go through the public system.
But I guess also because a lot of healthcare is state funded, you know, they may not offer quite as many of them very expensive tests that we sort of take for granted here, like the NIPT. Certainly you do find, you know, say people come from a culture that's a resource for country, or a non Western culture where things
are very very different. There can be specific requests of things that you haven't really encountered before, and so we try as absolutely hard as we can to help people achieve the birth that they want and do that in the most culturally sensitive way. So if we need to make policy adjustments and procedure adjustments within the realms of safety, we'll do that.
Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Kasanu lukit with expert input from doctor Bronwin Divine and while we have you here, we're on the hunt to share powerful underrepresented stories from people of all cultures, backgrounds, and abilities, so please get in touch. This episode was produced by Tina Mattalov and myself kis Anu luk At, with audio production by Leah Porges.