What Can Be Done To Improve Employee Performance? - podcast episode cover

What Can Be Done To Improve Employee Performance?

Oct 23, 202451 minSeason 3Ep. 4
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Episode description

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In this episode, we examine employee performance and the types of expectations that organizations and leaders have on the purpose and use of performance management.

Our prescription for this episode is to understand the intended purpose of performance management in your workplace. Is performance management a control tool or a productivity tool?

Past Episode Referenced:
Season 2 Episode 18: What Does HR Stand For In Your Company

You can reach out to us to talk more about performance management, just reach out to us at info@roman3.ca or through our LinkedIn page at https://www.linkedin.com/company/roman3

Don't forget to sign up for our New Quarterly Newsletter that launched this fall!

About Our Hosts!
James is an experienced business coach with a specialization in HR management and talent attraction and retention. 

Coby is a skilled educator and has an extensive background in building workforce and organizational capacity. 

For a little more on our ideas and concepts, check out our Knowledge Suite or our YouTube Channel, Solutions Explained by Roman 3.

Transcript

[ANNOUNCER]

Breaking down everyday workplace  issues and diagnosing the hidden sickness,   not just the obvious symptom.  Our hosts, James and Coby.

[COBY]

Did we lose a patient?

[JAMES]

No, that's just my lunch.

[COBY]

Hey, thanks for joining  us. I'm Coby, he's James,   and let's get started with a question. What  can be done to improve employee performance?

[JAMES]

Really? To improve employee  performance, we really need to understand   how performance management is being used in  our workplace. Is your performance management   system designed to punish our performance,  essentially using it as a control tool? Or   are you trying to encourage high performance, 

turning it into a productivity tool? Control   based performance management systems tend to  focus on the consequences of poor performance,   and, they rely heavily on things like performance  improvement plans, where underperformance   is called out and pips are used, really, as 

setting the stage for termination. these forms   of performance management systems are kind of a  hallmark of poor or even toxic workplace cultures,   where productivity based performance management  systems, on the other hand, are really focused   on setting and managing expectations. They set  the guardrails for what people can do within   the limits of their. Within the authority of  their role, and they provide regular check   ins and support to help people achieve the 

expectations that we set. A lot of how your   performance management system is designed kind of  depends on how HR is viewed within your company.

[COBY]

Yeah, no, that is a really important point  to even just challenge or rethink how performance   management and employee performance is  viewed in the workplace. Because in,   when we talk to businesses and they talk  about employee performance, it's really,   they're talking about mitigating risk, mitigating  problems, resolving employee issues through kind   of this almost like happy sunshine language of,  we're actually not trying to discipline you,  

we're trying to improve your performance. And it's  something that is, you know, when that happens,   everyone knows what's going on. You're not fooling  anybody. You know, you're putting lipstick on a  

pig, in a sense. Right? And to me, I always am  always like, ugh, that's not a good sign when   we're doing, when we see it, doing initial  assessments, because it's like you're just,   you know, you're really just trying to use  positive language to address something that you   see is very negative, and then it kind of means  you don't really have a plan on how we're going to   actually improve employee performance, how we're  actually going to manage employees performance,  

to have them do better, reach higher, and,  you know, and excel. We're just using this   language of performance management and employee  performance as, just as a synonym for discipline.

[JAMES]

Yeah. And typically the  tools are often the same. Like,   there's nothing inherently bad about  a performance improvement plan.

[COBY]

You're right.

[JAMES]

Right. We've identified that somebody is  not meeting the expectations that we have set out   in advance and we have provided support to them  still failing to meet those expectations. So we   are going to put a performance improvement plan  in place that says, here is the expectations,   here's what we are going to do to support you.  Here's where you need to be by x period of time,   and if you still continue to not meet those  expectations, then there will be some sort  

of consequence. Totally reasonable approach. It's  in how the tools are used and how they're thought   of within the organization that really, makes the  difference between control based and productivity   based. I, can, like, I have evaluated a lot of  performance management systems for clients. And   many times when we, like you said, when we're  doing the initial assessments or the early   stages of, engagements with clients, we're  looking at what they're doing and how they  

approach these things. And many times the only  performance management tool they use is a PIP. And if the only way that you monitor and  manage performance is through corrective action,   then you're not trying to support people to  improve their performance. You are disciplining   people for failing to meet your expectations. Now,  it's not every time, but the vast majority of time  

that this happens. Expectations are not clearly  set in advance, and there's not a system in place   for supporting people doing the regular check  ins, whether that's quarterly, evaluations to   see. Are we on track with our. To meet our goals  and what can we do to support you to continue to   improve that? It's a once a year sit down. Or when  something significant happens, we slap them with a  

you messed up, here's a pip. If you don't fix it  in six months, we're going to fire you mentality.

[COBY]

And I think maybe it is. This is the heart  of it. I feel sometimes that when workplaces try   to use again the performance management as  a substitute or a softening of discipline,   it almost seems passive aggressive. And maybe  that's part of what is that I dislike. It seems   a bit deceitful. And again, I know no employee  wants to be brought in for a disciplinary meeting,   but bringing them in for a performance  improvement meeting, that where they're.

[JAMES]

Being disciplined  doesn't negate the outcome,   doesn't mean anything. You're still  trying to discipline them. You're just   being a little less forward and  upfront about what you're doing.

[COBY]

Yeah. Now what you said before,  too, about how we, again, like, you know,   how the performance, the employee performance  programs are used, kind of bases a bit on kind   of the expectations of the organization. And  that makes me want to, makes me think that we   should go back and talk about something we did in  an, episode last season. We talked about kind of,   what does HR mean in your organization? Talked  about in that conversation, talking about the  

four, we call the four faces of HR. Basically  that HR, the h and the r kind of have a different   meaning or, you know, in different organizations  based on kind of the mindset and the view of both   employee relations and HR departments. And I  guess performance management would fall into  

that. So I think it might not hurt for us to kind  of talk about that again and then kind of talk   about what does performance management look like  in those different environments in hopes that the   person listening to this you'll be able to kind  of maybe connect with, yeah, that kind of sounds   a bit like my workplace or, yeah, that is maybe  some of the mindset issues that we're struggling   with and, and hopefully, again, make some kind  of, again, clear understanding for what kind of,  

how can employee performance be improved based  on the type of HR and kind of the governing   philosophies around employee relations  that kind of are in these workplaces.

[JAMES]

So the first one that I want, that I  think is important to talk about is if HR in   your workplace really stands for holding red tape,  where the intent and really the primary activity   of your HR department really is just compliance  and making sure that processes are being followed   and there's no real strategy, strategic  intent behind it, then honestly, you may,   you're probably not using it as a productivity  tool. And honestly, you're probably not using it  

as a control tool either. Very likely, it's just  a box that needs to be checked. Right. once a   year we have a performance conversation so that we  can tick the box that says we have, on an annual   basis, done a performance, management criteria.  We've met our obligations onto the next thing.

[COBY]

Yeah, no, I think that's bang on.  You're right, because it's not even that.   It's performance management is used for anything  other than it's a process we have to go through   to say that we've gone through it. And I'm sure  anybody hearing this conversation can remember   sitting in a performance management or yearly  performance review meeting and you're like,   why am I here? I'm like, sure, I'll just 

do what I did. This year, I'll just do it   better next year, or sure, I'll, you know, and  you're, you and sometimes even your supervisor,   you're both like, why are we even  doing this? It's. It's a exercise to,   it's administrative exercise. It really  has no value on my day, on my daily work.

[JAMES]

And we've seen this firsthand in.  Right. We've seen it where staff sit around   a table and do their, performance management,  process together, and they recycle the same   three to five goals. this year, I'm going to  choose this goal because it sounds good. right,   there's that one last year. Right. Like,  it just. It becomes a routine activity   that has no meaning and no value beyond  somebody at head office being able to say,   it was done. I don't care about anything other 

than check the box. It's done. Let's move on.

[COBY]

Right. So the answer to our question,  what can be done to improve employee performance   in the holding red tape department?

[JAMES]

A lot.

[COBY]

Yeah. Is really anything, not making it  a ridiculous activity for all people involved,   showing the managers how they can actually  make this into a meaningful, kind of like,   you know, part of the work again. Start  small, start again. because you have to re   educate everybody involved that this isn't an  exercise in futility or this isn't just some,   some type of lip service process  that you have, that you're doing.

[JAMES]

I feel for somebody in this  situation who wants to make change,   because if the way leadership in your company  views HR is merely as holding red tape,   then you may not be empowered to make any  changes, which is a very frustrating place   to be. and you've probably already identified  that there's a whole number of ways that it can   be done better. But yes, Coby, you're right. That  start small within the authority that you have.

[COBY]

Well, and I said this  in meetings with businesses,   and I've said this on the other podcast  before, but if employee performance,   if performance management doesn't matter, then  employee performance doesn't matter. And I mean,  

if. So, if you're in a situation where you're,  you know, feeling, you know, that, you know,   senior leadership or those above you are limiting  your ability to be empowered to do anything about   this because it's just an administrative process,  then that's the mentality I suggest you find a   way to bring to them. If this is something  that is not important, then we're saying,   and we're living and we're walking the walk, that 

employee performance doesn't matter. And kind   of put that on them to say, we can do better.  I've got a plan to do better, but I need to be   supported in my performance to do my job better  so that I can help them do their jobs better.   But make it very clear, if this whole, the whole  process of managing performance doesn't matter,   then performance doesn't matter. All right, so the  next, type of space of HR is when HR stands for  

the highly reactive department. And this is about  when the daily interactions of the HR departments   is really just pointing out fires. Sometimes this  looks like the kind of HR roles where it's just   about try to fill vacancies. And the majority of  all the HR time is spent just trying to, like,   you know, put bums in seats because we can't get  enough staff. Or it's about trying to run around  

and put out kind of interpersonal fires. And  every day is just about reacting to what happened   this morning or yesterday or whatever, and it's  really just kind of running from fire to fire and   never feeling like you're ever getting ahead. And  this is both depressing and depressingly common.

[JAMES]

Yeah. Well, I think in the reactive  mindset, performance management becomes a control   tool. Right. Because you're trying to limit the  number of fires that happen. Right. It's just you,   when you're constantly reacting to situations,  it's hard to act with strategic intent. Right.   And to take a, productivity mindset towards  performance management, it really needs to   be. There needs to be strategic intent 

behind it. Right. There needs to be,   you need to have the ability to, work  on things before they become a critical   problem that needs to be addressed or reacted  to. So I see the, this face, of HR very closely   aligning with the control mentality out of that  reactive mindset of, well, we just, we need to,   as much as possible, control how many fires we are  putting out at a time. so when something comes up,  

we respond. We institute, a performance  improvement, plan and give them a timeframe.   And if they don't adhere to it, then we move  on to discipline, or termination procedures.

[COBY]

Yeah, well, and one thing that's really  kind of a sad side effect of a HR department or   people with HR responsibilities that are, that,  are, that are used to constantly being in talent   attraction or talent recruitment mode is they  will be like, well, if this person doesn't show   us their worth keeping them, we'll just replace  them because we're pretty good at filling seats.

[JAMES]

Yeah.

[COBY]

And there's no concept of the  retention pieces either. You need to   because, because they're so behind the eight ball  and they're so focused on just recruitment that   it's like if the person doesn't show up and  is problem free, then they're out. Because we   don't have the bandwidth to help you become  good at your job. So you have to come fully   formed and problem free. Otherwise we're just  going to replace you because that's all we  

have capacity to do. And man, I've seen that in  so many, I've heard stories, especially from,   younger employees and stuff like that, that have  gotten these jobs. They're great. They don't hear   anything super concerning. They're looking forward  to their probationary period and they are just let   go within the probationary period with very little  warning because they just didn't quite become   problem free enough, that it was just easier  to replace them to the HR team. And that's sad.

[JAMES]

It is. And I think it's important  to clearly state and reinforce that this,   is not only an HR problem. Performance  management is not only an HR problem,   it's a management problem and a management  deficit, ah, of management skills. While HR   holds the overall responsibility, for  the performance management process,   let's be real. It's the individual managers  who should be monitoring, who should be, using   the performance management frameworks to support 

their staff to improve performance. Unfortunately,   when that doesn't happen, it just falls back  and creates more work for HR professionals.

[COBY]

Well, let's be serious too. When HR  is stands for the highly reactive department,   it's not just the HR professionals that are  in reaction mode all the time. This tends to   be an orientational wide thing. And sometimes,  and I've seen, and we've seen this with some   companies where, you know, sometimes our first  engagement with them tends to be with the HR   people just because kind of how we get brought in. 

But then we kind of see that HR is in a constantly   reactive mode and managers are constantly  reactive mode and employees are constantly   reactive mode and senior leadership is. So it  becomes organizational wide thing. So when it's,   again, when I say an employee is not, when  they bring a new employee on and they don't,   the manager doesn't have time to correct  the employee performance because they're,   because they're putting off fires constantly. 

So they kind of kick the problem to HR. And HR   is like, well, either we, you know, do you want  to just replace them? Because that's all we have   capacity to do. And then that's usually how it  happens. It's not someone intentionally going,   you know, let's just leave. Let's do this with,  you know, as a plan. It's just people trying   to keep their head above water. No one has time 

to get ahead. No one. People are, you're right,   they're often not trained enough how to actually  improve a new employee's performance, or address,   employees whose performance has been, is dipped  and is struggling. So it's, and they don't have   the capacity or the bandwidth to be trained. And  HR doesn't have the capacity to kind of put in   some preact or proactive stuff. All this to say  that usually the highly reactive problems are not,  

don't, don't just live within HR. HR is often  reflective of it, but it's almost like a lot of   the reactive momentum gets built up in other  departments and then ends up almost like,   you know, being pushed into HR. HR is often  more in a reactive mode because everyone else's   reactive problems are now their problems,  which kind of increases the problem tenfold.

[JAMES]

Yeah. And that's, that's  often where this mindset comes from,   is a lack of strategic intent and operational,   thought throughout the organization,  which forces HR to react to situations,   because nobody in the organization is actually  taking a strategic mindset in what they're doing.

[COBY]

Yeah. So then the question of what can be  done to improve employee performance in the highly   reactive department, it's, it's a tough situation  because you're struggling to keep your head above  

water. And the. So what we would say is that any  type of ability to work with the management team,   to build some level of proactive  employee support, to improve performance,   to give people more opportunity and to, to have  structure, have clear expectations, so that,   that way the employee performance can actually  be improved and not be, either you're perfect   or you're gone, kind of, you know, either 

or kind of situation. Anything that you   can do to allow employees to actually have  the chance to actually improve with some   kind of clarity and support and clear, with  clear expectations is really going to, it's   going to serve you very, very well. I  know it's a tough thing to say. Just,   you have to do more work in order to answer it.  When you're in a highly reactive department.

[JAMES]

What needs to be done is you're right.  there needs to be more intent around what   happens right from the very top, from the  senior leadership level. there needs to be,   managers need to be provided training  on how to actually manage m performance,   not just, monitor or restrict or react to poor  performance. and it may involve finding external.

[COBY]

Resources to support you yeah, yeah.  And we won't lie. That's something that tends   to be kind of a catalyst for some of the  work that we do is we need this to change.   We don't have the bandwidth internally to  change it. We have the desire and we have,   and we have the commitment to do it, but we just  don't know where to start because we're just,  

every day is just putting out fires. So  sometimes just having someone else take   that off your plate and guide you through  the transformation is often the only.

[JAMES]

You need to find capacity  somewhere. Either it's going to come   from picking up more work or offloading  some parts to somebody else, and it's   going to be up to you, and your company  to decide what's the best fit for that.

[COBY]

But the one thing we always really try to  make clear is that the cost savings of moving from   a highly reactive department towards something  with more strategic intent is substantial.

[JAMES]

The next one, if the third phase of HR  is when HR stands for hovering and restricting,   and this one, as you can probably guess just from  the name, is very control based. Right. It's the   idea that HR is big brother is always looking for.  When things are going wrong and provide corrective   action in and of itself, not a bad thing, but  when that is the focus of HR in your organization,  

it creates a lot of challenges. And again, it  tends to be, very much a HR is the bad guy HR,   you know, it's the toxic side of HR, or the HR  is not your friend mentality. Don't share or say   anything to HR because they're just going to use  it against you. These sentiments that we hear very   frequently from employees, if you've spent any  time talking to employees, you may have heard   these. This, mindset is again, quite prevalent. 

and it tends to view performance management   as a mechanism for restricting, what employees  can do rather than powering them to do better.

[COBY]

Yes. And one thing that is probably  worth just quickly mentioning too, is that,   when organizations try to evolve from a highly  reactive department without increasing capacity   and without getting external support  or without trying to get proactive,   they tend to get more restrictive, they tend to  make harsher, more punitive rulings. They tend   to focus more on suppressing people as a way of  just trying to keep their head above water, as.

[JAMES]

A way of suppressing the number  of fires that they need to react to.

[COBY]

Yeah.

[JAMES]

Right. It, it is. I  want to use the language of   it's a logical progression. but it's  not really a logical thought pattern.

[COBY]

No, it's an unfortunate  progression and easily.

[JAMES]

And an easy  progression to fall into. Yes.

[COBY]

Yeah. So, so it can be what happens when  you're highly reactive and you're not too sure   how do you get out of it. You're, so we'll just  squeeze everyone tighter. That tends to be where   you move into. And again, another way to kind of  think about this too is going is just the idea of,   you know, like I say, it's, it's big brother.  So big brother is, is trying to, you know,   use performance management as a way  to, again, maintain the suppression,  

maintain the restriction. It is about, you know,  like you cross this line, we're going to put you   on this passive aggressive pip. So that way that  you, you know, you don't think we're the bad guys,   even though we are, you know, tinting our fingers  in the background. you know, that, that's kind of   some of the way that people feel about, you  know, about this. And often where we see this   negative idea around Pip tends to kind of come  from this hovering and restricting focus of HR.

[JAMES]

This is a natural evolution of the  other two, like you said, with a, the reactive   mentality. But also, if you are shifting your  HR from merely holding red tape without that,   strategic intent of what HR can be, this  idea of we're going to bring in more HR   supports to monitor, to correct, actions, to  kind, of restrict what people can and can't   do. It is an evolution of both the holding  red tape and the highly reactive models.

[COBY]

You're right. And so, like when the,  and sometimes it's when the high, the holding   red tape department is in an organization that  views employees as expenses and liabilities,   and they just, and that the way that they  see kind of the human resources is using   humans as resources and that more commodity type  relationship that they have with the employer,   then they kind of can jump right from holding red  tape to hovering and restricting. If they're like,  

well, employees are liabilities. We have to  manage them, we have to suppress them. We have   to restrict them because they're a cost center.  There are liabilities and expenses. So we have to   mitigate that risk. So going back to the question,  what can be done to improve employee performance   in the hovering restriction department? I  don't think I got an answer for that one.

[JAMES]

Well, it's a mindset shift. It is  a struggle, because when the intent of your   department is to hover and restrict, you use  control tools to do that. Right. It's a natural   outcome, or it's embodied in the very way that we  view HR in our organization. So to change that,   we need to change how HR is viewed in our  organization. Right. Because this hovering   and restricting model is entirely about 

control. Whether that stems from a fear   of employees taking advantage of us, whether  that comes from a lack of understanding of   what, of how employees, can be treated when  treated as an asset rather than a liability,   can really enhance our entire business model. If  you are in the hovering and restricting mentality,   you probably are not going to approach  performance management as a productivity  

tool because it's about control. So if to  how do you do it better in that situation,   in that mentality is that you need to change,  you need to shift the mindset and what HR means   in that organization away, from focusing on  restricting actions to empowering performance.

[COBY]

There is no trust between employees and  management, and employees and hrtaine in the   hovering and restricting environment, there's  just not, So employee performance is going to   be about how do I stay out of trouble and how  do I keep off the radar of HR and my manager   is a survival mode. And you cannot improve  performance in that kind of environment in  

any kind of sustainable way. It's something that,  it's just you're always going to struggle with   employee performance because employees are only  going to give you enough to stay out of trouble. Because they don't trust  you. They are probably looking   for a new job right now and keeping their heads.

[JAMES]

Down to collect a paycheck.

[COBY]

Exactly. So the priorities are not  aligned to improve employee performance.   So let's move on to the last one, which is the  fourth face of HR is what we recall, the humans   required department. And this is basically the  polar opposite of the hovering and restriction   department. This is where the organization values  human capital. HR is more the employee advocate.   They're about seeing employees as assets. They're 

about providing resources to humans. And it really   is about that idea of, we get that you are a  person who we need to nurture and support to   if we want you to achieve great heights. So we're  behind you and we're going to help you do that.   And if you work in this kind of department or real  organization, you are lucky because you are not in   the majority. But there's a lot that can be done  to improve performance. Ah, in this organization.

[JAMES]

Yeah. This idea of humans required really  exemplifies that. from a business perspective,   we understand that if we treat people well, they  will perform better. If we treat people like human   beings, we empower them to do their job. We trust  them within the authority of the position that   they have we invest in them, because we, as they  get better at what they do, that will make all   of us better at achieving our organizational 

outcomes. It is the mentality that we personally   push in through all of our work when we're working  with clients. It's all about shifting the mindset   to this idea that if we can focus on improving  the employee experience, then that will have a   direct impact on our organizational outcomes. 

It will improve productivity, it'll improve,   performance, it'll improve retention  rates, it will help us attract talent,   to our organization, and it will increase our  profitability, it will increase our market share,   it will increase our ability to innovate  and pivot as new situations arise. Right.   It has a direct impact on your bottom line,  but it requires a lot of work and effort.

[COBY]

Absolutely. So when we talk about what can  be done to improve employee performance when you   have a humans required department, well, I think  what I'm going to do is going to drop a little bit   of psychology on people just to, help accentuate  the depths of what can be done when you have the   benefit of a human required department. So there  is a concept called the Pygmalion effect, and it's   psychological bias where higher expectations can 

lead to higher performance. Or on the other hand,   lower expectations can lead to lower performance.  Basically, the idea of a self fulfilling prophecy   between what you expect of people and what they  will provide you. Now, what's interesting about   the Pygmalion effect is that it requires that the 

kind of sincere expectation. So it's a matter of   saying that, if you have a boss who says, hey,  I'm excited for you to take on this new project, I   want, you know, so you have my support, you let me  know what you need. I know, I know you're going to   achieve great things, and that boss walks the walk  on that, and then you're like, wow, they really   believe in me. Well, I'm going to try a little bit  harder. I'm going to, you know, I'll take them up  

when I need the help. Like, you know, they're,  they're putting, they're putting a lot of faith   in me. So I'm going to meet that faith that, you  know, then that what that creates is, you know,   a great situation where your behaviors are aligned  and you put more effort into it and you achieve   greater things than if your boss said, hey, here's  a project, just do your best. it's about setting   the bar, but then supporting that bar being met. 

And it's a pretty interesting concept in a way   that it's also a bit of an obvious concept, but  it's surprising that there is real science and   real kind of cause and effect relationship behind  the self fulfilling prophecy of pygmalion effect,   because it really does work. If you create high  expectations and support those high expectations,  

you're going to achieve a higher outcome. And  this is an idea that's a lot easier to understand   in the humans required department than it would  be in the other three types of HR departments.

[JAMES]

Yeah. What was interesting  for me when you first introduced, ah,   the concept of the pygmalion effect to me  is that it sounds like just common sense,   right? If you set high expectations for people and  support them to achieve it, they will rise to the   occasion. If you set low expectations for people  and you don't give them any support, they will   lower their performance to meet your expectations. 

Knowing, that it's an actual psychological,   effect or theory or whatever you called it, is  interesting because if it is rooted in psychology,   then it makes it a bit more tangible. If it's  a bit more tangible, then something that we can   manipulate, not manipulate in a negative sense,  but understanding that there's actual psychology   behind it allows us to use this or deploy it,  within what we do around performance management.

[COBY]

What's interesting is that by  knowing it's a real thing, it's not   so much that you can manipulate  it, that you can replicate it.

[JAMES]

Right? Yeah.

[COBY]

That you can rely on it is that it's  something that will work again and again and   again. It's not just a one off. Hey, in just  this one rare situation, it just happened to work   coincidentally. It's. There's some consistency  behind it because this is how human brains work.

[JAMES]

So what's interesting is that all of the,  like, the best performance management, programs   that we've designed and that we've reviewed  all inherently do this. M. Right. They set,   they tell, they set the expectations.  They set high expectations for people,   right. But right from the very  beginning, people know how they're   going to be evaluated in the role. They know 

what success looks like. They, ah, you know,   there's regular check ins to ensure that, they  are on track to meet their, performance metrics.   They are supported with what they need to either  get back on track or to continue to meet their   expectations. And we see this time and time again  when this perform, this type of productivity,   focused performance management framework is  being utilized, people will regularly rise to   the occasion and meet the expectations that we 

set. We can set high expectations, we can expect   a lot out of people, but we have an obligation  to support them to achieve those outcomes.

[COBY]

And that's the key right there,  because I'm sure when I first, explained it,   someone's like, okay, guys, I don't believe you.  I've had bosses that have just set this crazy,   ridiculous bar, and I wasn't any more motivated  to achieve it. I wasn't able to reach that bar,   and I end up failing. and if that was, that was  you, I apologize. That's awful situation to be in,  

but that's not what we're talking about. The  Pygmalion effect requires that the conditions that   you work in are supporting that performance and  expectation, that you're being properly utilized   and being given the opportunity to achieve it. And  there's a bit of, a practical use of the skills   that you have. And then you're being set up in  a situation to be successful, and that you're   given feedback and encouragement and redirecting  and realignment when required. And if those three  

things don't exist, then you're. Then it's.  You're not being given high expectations with   support. You're being set up to fail. M and that's  something, that is a big difference. But you're   right. The Pygmalion effect is more talked about  with high expectations and higher performance. But   it is about. It's actually a neutral idea that  it's about people rise to the expectations and   support that you give them. It's probably a better  way to define it in a more neutral way. A great  

story. that kind of summarizes that is, when I was  working in an organization, this was fairly early   in my career. I, worked in a satellite office for  this large organization. And there was an employee   who worked in the organization with me who had  a job. And I don't know what she did because,   man, she didn't do a whole lot. And her boss  was this kind of, like, whatever, stew stuff,   don't do stuff like. Like, laid back to the point  of, like, really ineffective. And so I never  

really knew what this person did. This person was  in this job for, like, for like a year or two. And   these were contract jobs that had to be renewed  by, like, it had to be renewed on an annual basis.   And at one point, the position that this woman  was in was going to be discontinued because of   how ineffective she was. And what happened was,  her boss ended up getting fired because of his   lack of ability to manage. And her project being  unrenewed was one of the many straw that broke  

the camels back, in a sense. A new manager came in  and said, okay, so I've got a year of this project   left, and it's already been canceled. So, I'm  going to bring somebody in who, let's see what   they can do with this job, because there's no real  floor on this job, because the job is already,   the position's already been seen as a failure.  So whoever I bring in is going to kind of have   free reign to do something cool because they got  to burn off the rest of this contract. And let's  

see what can happen. And what's interesting is  the person that this new manager, who wanted to   prove herself in the position, brought in  what she brought in you, James, this guy?

[JAMES]

Yeah. it's funny that you're  telling my story. yeah. So I guess to   kind of clarify a few things, early in my  career, yeah, Coby and I, we work together   for the same organization. and I was brought  in on a. I was told right from the beginning,   you've got nine months left in this contract. The  contract's already slated to be, the funding has   already been pulled. so basically you've got a  nine month contract position, then you're done.  

My manager in that time, I've talked about this  person in a, few different times in, our podcast   and in our work, because this person is still one  of my favorite human beings. Because the way that   she managed, my performance and supported me to do  cool things, really elevated my career trajectory.   so, yeah, we had nine months to do whatever we  want. Funders didn't really care because the,   performance on that program was already so low  for the previous, like, three or five years,  

that, they were riding out the contract. What was  cool was working with my manager and her having   the faith in my ability to just come to me with  something cool that you want to do. We still need   to hit the broad outcomes, but the method that  we use to get there can be completely different.   It allowed me to research and design a new way  of, doing business development, through this   organization, to support businesses with their 

recruitment and attraction, efforts. And what's   kind of amazing is that in the first six months  of that nine month dead contract, we were able   to produce, enough results that the funding  got extended. We went from a nine month dead   contract to within six months, it being renewed  for another year, within, another six months of   that. So three months into the new, newly renewed  contract, we were producing such results that we   were actually able to wrap that into core funding. 

eventually, that program that I designed became a   provincial standard for employer engagement  programs, through these types of agencies.

[COBY]

Yeah. So what's really great about one,   it's kind of a cool story of how  you turned a absolutely dead job.

[JAMES]

I'm always happy to talk about myself.

[COBY]

But it is very impressive that you  turned an absolutely dead job that everyone   had written off and moved away from it to the  new provincial standard in how to provide that   type of support to businesses. So that's just  a cool thing. I'm going to give you applause   on that. But it is also a great story that  exemplifies both sides of the pygmalion effect.  

Your predecessor and her boss were a great example  of, if you set low standards and you don't create   the conditions that support high productivity,  you don't utilize fuel effectively and you don't,   provide good feedback, they will meet that  poor expectation with poor results versus when   your boss came in and hired you. She set high  expectations for you to achieve something. She   gave you the conditions and the support to do 

that. She properly utilized your skillsets and   gave you the feedback and the course corrections  you needed in order to achieve high performance.   And you even blew her expectations out of  the water. And that is what can happen with   a mindset shift. And by leveraging the pygmalion  effect, you can resurrect the dead in a sense.

[JAMES]

but walk back from that statement.

[COBY]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, we'll cut that out in  editing, but honestly. But you can achieve great   things by this, by this idea. And what's so funny  is you're like, well, when I first explained this   to you, you're like, well, isn't that common?  Shouldn't that be common sense? And I'm like,   yeah, but it's not. But it is something that  is not common enough to be common sense.

[JAMES]

Yeah. So this is just not common.

[COBY]

Exactly. So I think that one of the  ways that we can, tee this up a little bit,   too, is the way that we utilize this focus  around conditions, utilization and feedback   is something that is built into how we rebuild 

performance management tools and programs. So   a lot of the work that we do when we go into  organizations going to help them with their   talent transformations is trying to build some  type of system that creates the kind of conditions   similar to what you experienced early on in your  career, but has been proven to improve portfolio  

performance. Leveraging the Pygmalion effect  and a lot of the ways we talk about that is a   really simple way we talk about it, in terms of  rules that empower, creating the benchmarks and   the goalposts and the expectations that let people  kind of hit those high peaks that, again, leverage   high expectations to turn into high performance.  And it's in, I think we have a program where  

we talk about that. and maybe it's called the  autonomy Freeway, and maybe we can do an episode   about that down the road because we're kind of  running low on time now. But I would like for us   to kind of just steer this Pygmalion effect, human  required rules that empower kind of, and talk   about it in terms of the more common realities of  remote teams and multiple location organizations.

[JAMES]

Yeah, so, a, lot of our clients,  have multiple locations. Ah, so managing   performance across multiple locations, or managing  performance with teams that are, whether they're   multiple locations being others, like satellite  offices, or they work from home, it doesn't really   matter what, we tend to do. I use the language of 

guardrails earlier. so perform a really robust,   excellent, performance management system is  going to very clearly set the expectations of,   here's what you're expected, here are what your  responsibilities are, here's how we are going.   Defining success, in this role. And on one side,  that becomes your guardrail, on the other side,   it's. Here are the things that you can't do,  right. Here are the, don't cross these lines,  

these boundaries. But the, your opportunity to do  cool stuff rests in between those two guardrails   of expectations, clear definitions of success  and rules that empower. Setting the limits of,   as long as you're not doing x, y, and z, you're  good to go. Right. That framework becomes very,   very powerful motivational tool and performance  management tool, because you also need to temper,   that with regular check ins. Right. How are 

things going? We've set the expectations. We   know how we're going to measure, the success in  your job. So, on a, if you're managing a remote   team or people, who work from home, you're  probably going to want to do the check ins a   little more often, whether that's bi weekly,  to see. Okay, here's what we've stated is,   our metrics for success. How are you in achieving  those? Okay, what do you need from me as your   manager to make sure that you can achieve those 

goals bi weekly basis? 1520 minutes conversation.   Regular check ins can make all the difference  in the world. If you have these guard weight   guardrails in place that focus people's energies,  it's just again, it's one of those things that it   makes sense and should be common, but it's  not commonly applied. but we see this as a,   we not only see it, we have seen it in action 

with clients. We regularly see this in action   improving the way that managers, are able to  manage teams, whether that is multiple location,   whether that is work from home, and really improve  the overall performance of individuals, of teams,   and of organizations when this mentality  is taken and applied throughout a company.

[COBY]

Absolutely. And a lot of what is  fundamental to making a lot of these stuff   work is being prepared to manage people a little  bit differently. This isn't your grandparents way   to manage people. This really is about what  works in today's workforce climate. So we're   going to do a really quick recap. I think this  has been a good conversation. So what can be   done to improve employee performance?  Well, again, the big question is,   how are you viewing performance management? 

Are you seeing it as a tool of control,   or are you seeing it as a tool for productivity?  That is kind of the foundation. First thing you   need to really be asking yourself when you're  trying to increase employee performance,   because how we view employee relations and HR  has a lot of impact on the way that we, again,   utilize systems to manage employee performance.  Are we trying to just hold people to a generic   standard of checking boxes by holding, having 

a holding red tape department? Are we just   trying to put out, fires and mitigate the problems  because we have a highly reactive department? Are   we trying to suppress people through a hovering  and restricting department? Or do we actually   have a humans required department? That is about  trying to achieve, optimal performance and optimal   productivity through investing in people and using 

people, and providing resources to humans. We need   to be more aware of looking into the Pygmalion  effect and the impact that higher expectations   can become a self fulfilling prophecy towards  higher performance if we have the conditions,   utilization, and feedback to get them there.  Ultimately, if you want to talk about improving   employee performance when it comes to remote  teams in multiple locations, we have to be  

prepared to manage differently. Look at rules  that empower, look at setting clear expectations,   set the guardrails that will help people kind of  achieve what they want. You know, what they need   to in order to optimize performance. But we have  to realize that this, a lot of this, this sounds   like a big change to you. Then going through,  seeing this as potential, a transformative  

process might be the reality of it. And those  things aren't necessarily quick, cheap, or easy,   but if you want to actually do something about  employee performance if they may be necessary.   All right, so that about does it for us. For  a full archive of the podcast and access to   the video version hosted on our YouTube channel,  visit www.roman3.ca/podcast thanks for joining us.

[ANNOUNCER]

For more information on  topics like these, don't forget to   visit us at www.roman3.ca. Side effects of  this podcast may include improved retention,   high productivity, increased market share,  employees breaking out in spontaneous dance,   dry mouth, a version to the sound of James  voice desire to find a better podcast.

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