When I, Then I'll, or the subtle ways avoidance disguises itself—talk only, meditation didn't record

Hi there, this is Josh of Dharma Punks, New York. If you would like to support my work, everything I do is available to all for free. I survive entirely just by donations. The donations are or can be made at DharmaPunks with an X, NYC and Venmo. Or if you go to the website. you can find both the paypal and the patreon buttons as well so thanks for your support really allows me to do what i do

which I've been doing. Now I'm in my 21st year being a Buddhist teacher pastor. So I'm grateful for you keeping the roof over my heads. And now tonight's talk. We like to think that we're a logical species, but in fact we act in accordance with how we feel, not how we think. Bold statement, but actually if, like me, in any way you are a... neuroscience, or psychology nerd, or any combination thereof, agreement with that basic statement. Antonio Damasio, one of the most esteemed...

Neuropsychologists noted with this somatic marker hypothesis that feelings are actually fundamental to decision making. When people have damaged regions that read their body states, like the insula and the ventral medial prefrontal cortex, they can't make a decision for the life of themselves. They're stuck. Joseph Ledoux noted the famous... neuroscientist at NYU noted that the amygdala processes all stimuli in deep brain structures far before consciousness and is far more influential.

Daniel Kahneman, the Nobel Prize winner, noted that gut instincts are system one and are far more influential most of the time than any form of rational system two thinking. Jonathan Haidt, the most esteemed of clinical psychologists, compares emotions. to the elephant and reason to the monkey riding on the elephant's back and argues that it's the elephant that makes all the decisions. It's just the monkey thing somehow.

that it's choosing where the elephant is going. And that's what our thought is doing. We like to think that we somehow influence our behavior, but almost all the time. What we do is influenced by gut feelings. I can go on. Lisa Feldman Barrett notes. Emotions are constructed by her. Emotions construct how we view reality and how we make decisions. Barbara Fredrickson notes the hub of the emotional system, the polyvagal.

more influential on behavior than any kind of reasoning. And the Buddha, a guy who lived some 2,500 years ago, noted in the Paticca Samhapada that feelings precondition. both behavioral impulses and thought. Evolution plus all of the events in our lives, our early childhood events, create in us gut feelings. And in every situation...

We either have pleasant or unpleasant feelings that say approach or feelings that say withdraw. And they determine whether we move towards something or move away from something.

And we avoid physiological stress. You visualize something that you want to do or you should do, but it produces physiological stress. You almost certainly won't do it. That's what instigates behaviors. What we don't understand is that while fear means stop, don't move forward, over the course of time, we've mistaken anxiety.

to mean stop. Anxiety doesn't mean stop. It was actually originally an evolution's way to say tread carefully, but proceed nonetheless. So once again, fear... which orients us to a specific present threat in our environment, which literally fixes our attention on that threat, is the physiological marker that says stop, withdraw.

do something to get out of the situation. But anxiety was actually a very common... endemic state to pretty much all of our ancestors who lived in harsh difficult situations very often where there weren't threats present but Everybody had to be careful. So what anxiety always meant was not to stop, not to give up on something. It meant to proceed, but just do it in a slowly, careful way.

Now, as a tribal species, any endeavor where there's a possibility of failure, rejection, looking bad, receiving bad news is going to evoke an... anxiety in us. So if we mistake the feelings of anxiety, which are just tingling, a sense of unease, if we mistake the feelings of anxiety with fear, which is a general state of complete clenching, stopping inner track shock.

If we mistake those two or believe that anxiety means don't do something, we'll never set boundaries in relationships. We'll never state our needs to... important figures. We'll never leave an unhappy relationship. We'll never see a doctor out of fear of what a diagnosis, you know, might entail. We'll never change a job. We'll never... We'll never do anything that's difficult.

The whole point of the feeling of anxiety, which is very distinct from the feeling of fear, if you don't believe me, visualize something that was absolutely terrifying and see if you can find... that the expressions of it were in your body and then visualize.

a run-of-the-mill thing that you feel anxious about and don't like dealing with. And you will notice that the somatic markers are very often in entirely different regions. Again, uh fear which is meant to stop us in our tracks almost invariably leads to a kind of response, where suddenly all of our body contracts against moving, whereas, and it orients us towards something outside of us, anxiety doesn't.

anxiety pulls us away from our environment. It doesn't hold or catch our breath. In fact, we're more likely to be breathing fastly and shallowly. So if you don't... If we can't interpret the physiological expressions in our body, we'll probably avoid things that we shouldn't be. Procrastination in its heart...

is a regressive approach to life in that it returns us to the earliest coping strategies of childhood. Essentially, what we... The idea of procrastination is if I don't look at something, it'll go away. If I close my eyes... and can't see you, you can't see me, or you don't exist. Procrastination is like that which I don't see can't hurt me, or that which I don't acknowledge won't be difficult. And so as a form of avoidance coping, it leads to us sidestepping.

Exceedingly necessary endeavors simply due to the fact that all challenging or new endeavors will always activate anxiety. Now, most of us, because we're a tribal species, want to look good, and we don't like acknowledging to ourself or to others that we're stalling, procrastinating, putting off something that's necessary. So human beings have developed... developed a very neat trick. I call it When I Then I'll.

What we do is when there's something we're avoiding, instead of acknowledging, yes, I'm procrastinating, I'm stalling, I'm not doing something I need to, we actually make statements that... are what's called classic conditioning or conditional statements that make it seem like we are ready to do it when we're actually not and we actually have no intention of doing something.

So let's talk about that. We constantly as adults do use conditional if-then reasoning to acknowledge situations in life where situations can make us feel safe or unsafe. So for instance, I will go swimming this week but only if the currents aren't too strong. That's a conditional statement. You're saying you are going to go swimming but only if the currents aren't too strong. You might say...

I'll stop by your apartment if I get back to the city by 7. So that's a conditional statement. Only if you get back to the city by 7 will you stop by somebody's apartment. And then I'll work overtime if I get time and a half. That's a conditional if-then statement. So adults use conditional if-then statements all the time. We tend to treat them seriously. We tend to believe that they're always accurate. But actually...

There's an entire branch of conditional statements that are very often disguises of avoidance coping. And those are the ones that go, when I, then I'll. statements. And in my experience in counseling over 20 years, very often these are preconditions for actions that could almost invariably be started today that people are just putting off. They often, I see them quite frequently in areas such as travel, dating, career changes, moving, any big shifts in life.

And I'll give you some classic examples of where conditional statements, such as when I, then all, are not in any way... real adult statements of setting plans. They're actually just a form of procrastination. So my favorites are, when I lose weight, then I'll start dating. Another good one is when I have a partner, then I'll travel. When I save up more money, then I'll work less. Once I get my bonus. Then I'll start looking for a new job. My favorite.

And the most ludicrous of the when I then all statements is when I feel more energetic. then I'll start exercising again. That's a little bit like saying, when I grow bigger muscles magically, then I'll start exercising. The whole point of exercising is that it makes you start feeling energetic. not vice versa. Nobody needs to lose weight to start dating. Nobody needs to have a partner to travel. Nobody needs to save up money to decide that their work-life ratio needs to be addressed.

All of these fall under what is classically called the illusion of readiness, that we should have perfect conditions. before we undertake necessary actions in fact it reveals a profoundly irrational belief that taking on something challenging can only occur

under perfect conditions, that we must be 100% confident before we take an action. Number one, there are no such things ever as perfect conditions. Number two, most of the time, nobody feels confident until they actually start doing something and then they see it's not as bad as they imagine. It's only then that people... develop a sense of confidence, put that clinically, readiness follows action rather than preceding it. That's the basic clinical.

you know way of saying it there's no such a thing as being ready to do something until you actually start doing it you know nobody ever is ready to start dancing in public It just never happens. You have to start doing it. Then you start habituating to it. You stop paying attention to what other people think about you. Then you become more ready to do that. Nobody ever... becomes ready to ask someone on a date or go to a job interview until they actually start doing it readiness

always comes as a result of undertaking actions. No one ever becomes ready for anything by just imagining it or waiting for conditions. The only way you ever feel confident or ready to do something is when you start. actually doing it. That's the whole point of exposure therapy is that once you start doing something, the amygdala, especially the basolateral amygdala, stops creating the anxiety stress response.

incrementally, and it becomes easier. Alas, the more we put off doing anything, i.e. take no action towards a goal, the worse the fear becomes. Anyone who's ever fallen off a bike and decided to take a few weeks before they get back on a bike will know or will be on reflection, be able to acknowledge that. the anxiety doesn't go away. In fact, studies show quite the opposite. The longer you wait to get back on the bike, the more anxiety you'll feel. Avoidance.

reinforces anxiety because the brain never learns that an activity is safe. I'll say that again. Any kind of avoidance, anything we're putting off. worsens anxiety, makes it less likely we'll do that necessary thing because the brain never learns that that endeavor is actually safe. In fact, over time, the amygdala becomes hyperactive. And in a famous study in biological psychiatry I looked up, they found that...

The longer you wait to do something, you actually form an amygdala prefrontal cortex connection that makes anything more and more distressing. And another wonderful study, the Yale Child Study Center, found that when parents try to accommodate their children's anxiety by avoiding... anything their children find anxiety-provoking, their children actually grow up having far more anxiety disorders than the parents who slowly, carefully...

move their children towards something the children find stressful. So procrastinating, stalling doesn't work at all. I could go down another path of talking about how trigger warnings that people seek actually backfire. They teach us that we can't survive stress. And in a famous study, trigger warnings were shown to create greater.

anticipatory anxiety in life and having no trigger warnings whatsoever so um there's several key giveaways when we or anyone we know is engaging in avoidance and in procrastination when they're using the kind of when-all, then-all. Number one is that the conditions they're setting To do something, always shift. So, for example, the person who says, I'm only going to travel once I finally find a travel partner or I'm in a relationship.

What happens classically is they actually get a partner or a travel buddy, but then they still don't travel. Now they have to wait until their partner has enough money. that they can take off the exact same amount of time. So there's this ever-shifting amount of conditions that need to be met. Another example is someone who waits for a bonus to look for a better job or to start interviewing for other jobs.

get the bonus but still they don't look for another job now they have to see if they'll get more time off or raise a better title so they're shifting the conditions Another giveaway is things that people really intend to do, they will do, whereas things that are procrastination, they won't do. So if somebody says, I will... go surfing when the waves are being enough.

They might miss a few days, but eventually they will go surfing. But somebody who says, I'll start dating when I feel better about the way I look. You'll see them do absolutely nothing towards that end. You'll see them making actually no preparations, no movement towards it.

It's fine if somebody says to themselves in a loud, no, I just don't want to do that thing at all. In that way, we're authentic and honest with ourselves, and that way we can basically not... live in this fantasy that we're moving towards something that we actually are scared of.

That, at least, is an authentic acknowledgement that right now we just are too frightened to do something, and that's okay. But to pretend that we are ready... but we're simply waiting for perfect conditions is not only to be dishonest with ourselves and with others, but... It is a kind of strategy that spreads endemically through our life to the point where we very often think that we're ready to do all these different things which we're actually putting off of.

Another key ways to know that we're engaged in procrastination is when the conditions are vague, like when I save up more money, I'll work less. Well, exactly how much money? do we need to have before we address our stress and our work-life ratio there is no amount no one will ever who doesn't feel their health is essential now no one will ever feel safe enough to do it they're just basically believing that money is

what brings them safety, not their own health. Another example is unattainable conditions, like when I lose 20 pounds, then I'll start dating. Well, for many of us, myself certainly included the goal of losing twenty pounds is physiologically impossible given my age metabolism abilities You know, or another good one is when I buy a house, then I'll move out of this unsafe neighborhood. Well, in America today.

many of us will never have enough money to own our own house so again very often these conditions are meant to just basically put off forever something that we're

just overwhelmed by. The Buddha, for one, totally and constantly warns against any form of procrastination. uh he in the earliest sections of the dhammapada said do not in under any circumstances be the one who puts things off the wise person practices seriously daily and advances towards liberation It's only those who take responsibility of their own suffering truly practices the Dharma and the Anguttara Nikaya.

Any kind of movement, on the other hand, any small steps gives a small foothold and it actually creates a sense of agency and it actually starts to develop. the sense of confidence. So it doesn't have to be big, scary steps. Breaking down an endeavor like For example, if someone wants to be in a relationship, but it's been a long time since they've gone on a date, the first thing they might do might be take a small step.

of either going to places where groups or they might if they're willing to use some form of dating app they might make a profile that doesn't mean that they're committing to doing anything more than that but that small step like making a resume if we want to lose a job, or making a doctor's appointment for a consultation we've been putting off.

And another key thing is when you undertake small steps, it's essential to reward ourselves because once you associate taking action with reward... then you are likely to continue. these endeavors. If you always know that if I do this, I will move towards the, I will get rewarded. It's important to visualize positive outcomes. Positive outcomes are... the way that we hold in mind an image of all the good things that could accrue if we actually undertake a task that is

that produces anxiety. So, for example, if somebody has been... avoiding applying for grad school or avoiding taking Finally, their driver's test or learning how to drive. They visualize in their mind image. is associated with all the joy, all of the opportunities, all of the pride that they'll feel if they actually achieve the outcome. This aligns with both the psychological insights and the Buddha's teachings where...

Practice begins in the present not by waiting for ideal circumstances to be met, but by taking small steps. In our meditation today, what we're going to be doing is a classic exposure practice where we're going to... visualize taking a small step towards some goal that we've been postponing or putting off. And what we're going to do is also do some resourcing, which is visualizing someone safe that would help us on this endeavor. And then we'll also visualize the outcomes.

We're ready to take a commitment to ourselves because it's a meditation. You're not making the commitment to anyone else but to ourselves to take a step in that direction. Thanks for listening. I hope something in there was in some way... thought-provoking or worth your time. And then what I'd like to invite you to do is to find a really comfortable seated position.