Nervous: A Brief Overview of the Autonomic Nervous System and Ways to Regulate Our Stress - podcast episode cover

Nervous: A Brief Overview of the Autonomic Nervous System and Ways to Regulate Our Stress

Sep 26, 20241 hrEp. 427
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Summary

Josh Korda explores the autonomic nervous system, revealing how its three primary states—the ancient shutdown (freeze), the sympathetic (fight/flight), and the ventral vagal (social engagement)—govern our emotional states, responses, and ability to connect. He delves into the benefits and drawbacks of each state, emphasizing that these shifts are largely unconscious. The episode provides actionable strategies, from environmental adjustments and breathing exercises to visualization and mindfulness, to help regulate stress and foster a healthier, more engaged nervous system.

Episode description

venmo.   Dharmapunxnyc
patreon. www.patreon.com/dharmapunxnyc

Transcript

Welcome and Support Dharnapunks NYC

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Hi there. It's Josh. And this is Dharmapunks, New York. Welcome. Yeah, there's gonna be a bunch of retreats next year, but nothing's online yet. Uh if you're in New York the first Tuesday of any month, that's when we do our in-person events. So our in-person gatherings at Grand Street Healing, 105 Grand Street by Domino Park by the River, so in Williamsburg. So do stop by if that's ever available to you and uh

Everything I do is entirely supported entirely just by donation. No I don't charge for anything. The Buddhist pastoral work, counseling and teaching is just supported by donations only. So if you would like to help keep this going, if these talks are of any value, uh the Venmo is Dharma Punks with an X NYC. And uh the website has the same name with a dot com at the end and the PayPal Patreon.

Governing Emotions Through the Nervous System

uh links are there. So thanks for that. And now tonight we're talking about The nervous system and uh we like to assume that our moods and behaviors are primarily governed by thoughts, but in reality the nervous system sp specifically the autonomic nervous system, which is uh automatic, as it sounds. plays a far greater role in shaping our emotional states and our behaviors, our moods, than any of our thoughts.

it's far more influential. In fact, very old regions of the brain, the amygdala, the hypothalamus pituitary, insula, less ancient but the anterior cingular cortex as well play very, very, very important, influential, I would say even govern. Much of our emotional and behavioral states they operate largely outside of conscious awareness. They um initiate five flight freeze and fawn responses. And quite frankly, our nervous systems, our autonomic nervous systems, de determine whether we can relax.

and engage with others, whether we become anxious or irritable, whether we shut down or become servile, fawn, or whether we uh essentially hide and seek isolation, all of these are largely influenced by the settings of our autonomic nervous systems. The more you understand about your nervous system, the more you understand about yourself.

The Ancient Freeze and Shutdown State

So let's jump right in. There are three, not two, but three pathways of the autonomic nervous system. In the oldest state which uh evolutionary developed hundreds and hundreds of millions of years ago, and states of exhaustion or overwhelming threat or Um the lower part of the parasympathetic uh system which is uses a vagal nerve that runs down the front of the body dominates causing what is cause called a shutdown response.

This is a very ancient system and it decreases blood pressure, heart rate, temperature, um, but it does aid in digestive processes. It's associated with the reptilian immobilized freeze response. And there are many, many, many good as well as not so good elements of every state of the nervous system. The good is that in this ancient state of collapse, you can recover from an illness. That's why you sleep a lot when you're sick.

Uh under attack by a predator, you can immediately play dead. It's not a choice, you just will. Um it numbs pain in extremely life-threatening situations. It's especially helps in healing from wounds and from illnesses. It protects us from traumatic events being burned too much in the memory. We still they do burn, but Um when we go into uh dissociative collapse.

a lot of conscious awareness is completely obliterated. Um the flooding of stress hormones, cortisol, as well as adrenaline uh shut down much of the uh frontal lobe regions. The bad is that those with complex PTSD or some forms of PTSD do have a predilection to dissociate with They uh essentially go into a freeze state. Um and in that state they go into a kind of shadow personality where they're no longer fully present.

Um, highest regions of the frontal lobe, which are critical for uh executive functioning, are not present at all. Um, social cognition is out the window. So when people are in Uh very awesome blackout states from intoxication. Um these are states where a lot can happen that we will not remember. Uh in Buddhism uh the Buddha said that there's that torpor is which is associated with a shutdown state is a hindrance.

to awakening. So if there's a predilection to this kind of shutdown state, which is also, by the way, associated with depression and anhedonia lack of joy. Um it definitely hinders our ability to fully enjoy, appreciate our lives. We can't connect with others. we go into a very uh disconnected state. So people who have had a lot of childhood trauma are very prone to this. Lower parasympathetic response under stress, they go into this kind of freeze response.

Understanding the Fight or Flight System

Now far more common in adult life than the freeze response is the sympathetic nervous system, which is unlike freeze, this is the exact opposite. It's a mobilized response. It's when your amygdala and brainstem perceive that somewhere in the environment there's a threat. or a challenge that demands actions, it initiates first in a a s kind of a

Startle response via adrenaline. Your heart beats faster, blood pressure raises, uh, blood goes to muscle groups, muscles tense, we breathe rapidly, circulation speeds up. The exteroceptive senses of sight, hearing, and and um become sharper. On the other hand, uh digestion stops. Um and very often just one section of the frontal lobe associated with survival thoughts is really functioning. People who are in sympathetic states.

Um stay very, very awake and vigilant. You can't sleep when you're in a sympathetic, mobilized state. Cortisol um and adrenaline blockades and prevents the binding of adenosine, which is the sleep hormone. You didn't need to know all that. But so the good of the mobilization is that it allows us to respond to threats. that we could only survive by taking action, running, fighting, hiding. Uh in situations that require setting boundaries with someone.

uh having a sympathetic, you know, fight resp a low level fight response. uh gives us the confidence and the impetus to say no. you know, when you finally tell a boss or a roommate or a landlord that's unacceptable, it's because you've initiated a kind of mobilized state in your nervous system. Uh, if you ever do any athletic endeavor whether sports or anything where you have to react quickly. to the environment, skiing, I don't know, tennis, surfing. You're in uh uh ongoing sympathetic state.

Because that's the only way we can have fast actions. People who engage in work where they have to stay on the ball and quickly respond to new stimuli like day traders. um, or emergency room technicians or uh uh or people um who are in any situation where they have to respond, that is um Sympathetic, and that's totally appropriate. On the other hand, there is a lot of negatives of for people who stay too long in sympathetic mobilization response. It's called chronic stress.

And chronic stress is associated with hypervigilance, anxiety, agitation. uh muscle tension, insomnia, uh uh increased weight gain due to uh the changes in blood sugar. uh disrupted sleep, uh people who are in chronic stress because it stops digestion wind up with huge digestive disorders, ulcers. Um high blood pressure, arteriosclerosis, uh diabetes. It uh cortisol, the stress hormone that's secreted by the uh hypothalamus during the sympathetic response.

uh leads to a degradation of the hypoth the uh the hippocampus which stores memories so people over time can uh it can actually degrade cognitive function Um eventually over time people's Amygdalas are grow bigger and literally grow bigger, gray matter in the amygdala becomes far larger and we respond constantly to safe environments as if there's threats present and we present, we become hyper vigilant for no reason,

And uh the Buddha called the state restless worry. It's very much a hindrance to any form of peace of mind.

The Healthy Social Engagement State

and well-being. Now finally, the highest state of the sim of the nervous system is the ventral vagal or the social engagement. like the ancient parasympathetic. It uses the vagus nerve. Both of those do, the ancient shutdown as well as the social engagement. The difference is that the ancient shutdown system uses the very old parasympathetic highway, which essentially controls

your stomach and your breathing. Whereas The modern v vagal system controls the muscles in your face, and that's what allows us to express our emotions on through nonverbal facial cues. When we're in the social engaged system, we're probably breathing less than uh s uh Seventy five heartbeats per minute. We're breathing slower, our exhalations are longer. We're relaxed and engaged with others. We're not reactive. We're curious, creative, tolerant. We um

uh can emotionally resonate with others and bond. We um the good is that being in the state is the healthiest state you can be in. It's homeostatic. Um, which means it's n associated with better digestion, reduction of anxiety, etc. allows you to sleep better, your blood pressure goes down, you uh your uh immune system functions well. If you're in chronic stress, eventually it hinders immune system and people become far more um

Vulnerable to pathogens. There's even research that shows chronic stress is linked to certain kinds of cancers. People who stay in homeostasis, rest, digest, uh engage are f have immune systems that are far more effective. There's far more white blood cells.

When people are constantly in chronic stress, they're only really producing red blood cells'cause the body thinks you're about to be injured. Um So the only bad of The ventral vagal system is frankly that sometimes people can be too calm in really dangerous situations, but that's such a rare event that I don't even think it's really w worth mentioning.

Beyond Conscious Control: ANS States

So uh, you know, the ultimate goal in life really is outside of Uh, you know, if you're sick, yes, you want to be in the ancient dorsal shutdown, or if you're under attack. uh by an overwhelming force. you want to be in that state. On the other hand, if you play a sport or your work engages times where you have to really stay on the ball and be reactive. Then sure you wanna be in your sympathetic stress symptom s uh system state?

But other than that, pretty much the rest of your life, you really want to be in this social engagement system. Um, if we look at it In a very sort of old uh very kind of reductive model, your ancient parasympathetic is like slamming the brakes in the car. Your sympathetic nervous system is like revving the gas to go faster. Whereas social engaged system is like cruising down the highway. You're in cruise mode. You don't you're just relaxed. You're not over steering. You're not putting

your foot on the gas or brake, the car's just in cruise control. You can deal with situations, but you don't get stressed out about it. You're uh And when you're in that state, all of the frontal lobe can inhibit stress responses. You can do long-term planning because the dorsolateral region is working. And

you can, you know, really build relationships then because you're not gonna suddenly be feel threatened or abandoned or rejected or criticized by others. You're just going to relax and feel interested uh with what other people are saying and doing. The problem is is that we're not switched between these states consciously, as anyone who's ever had a sudden anxiety attack when they're doing anything will tell you it's not a choice.

Um the s the autonomic nervous system is switched by uh again regions like the amygdala, the medulla, the Uh hypothalamus. Um, that have nothing to do with conscious operations of the brain. They're well below. the level of logic, reason, intention. These are very l mid to lower brain regions. So you can't decide to be calm. Nor can others. And this is why telling someone to calm down is probably the greatest waste of time.

there is because you're telling them to do something that their nervous system is just will not give a shit, frankly. That's the clinical term. The nervous system you can tell someone Calm down. And their nervous system is gonna basically be, fuck you. I'm feeling threatened. I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I want. I don't even understand language, so why are you even bother talking?

To me, that's a very Brooklyn nervous system, but that's where I'm from. So um these Um regions are very often in the background while we're talking to people, responding to stimuli we're not consciously aware of, changes in the environment.

Suddenly Stephen Porges, the great uh neurologist who has done so much work on this and the polyvagal theory in the autonomic nervous system notes how influential nonverbal cues like other people's facial expressions uh people's subtle shifts of attention, uh suddenly s unconsciously seeing someone act in a vaguely threatening or in a or in a situ uh in a way that's exciting.

The Power of Co-Regulation

Um our nervous systems reach out for contact and co-regulation. through constantly trying to seek eye contact, by constantly looking at other people's facial expressions, by seeking proximity. And these are things we're impelled to do by evolution. And when they're responded in a way that is mirroring Um then we relax. But if, on the other hand, subtle indications

that only your uh these fast pre uh conscious regions of your brain can pick up. Like for example, um Uh you know, during a conflict you lose eye contact with the person you're talking with or they turn away. Or they roll their eyes. These subtle cues, which you might not even pick up consciously, but they will shift. your nervous system and very often before we realize it, we're in a very reactive, aggressive or frightened or dissumissive or uh just giving up and going into a freeze state.

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in people who are in love They it's the same dynamic as the parent child the parent baby where Signals of safety are constantly being set, sent from one to the other unconsciously. Nervous systems then co-regulate together heart rates and breathing. becomes in sync, the baby and the mother breathe in the same rhythm. They responses to stimuli slow down.

And when the same thing happens when people are close friends or they're in love, they uh literally send these signals and their nervous systems sync together.

Anxious Date: Shifting Nervous States

We can see all three settings of the nervous system and fast progression uh on a date that goes from pretty good to terrible. So think of two people who are meeting for the first time at a small cafe or coffee shop. One person's already seated, the other person comes in, and the person who's seated smiles and looks welcoming to their date. This activates the the other person's ventral vagus system. They feel relaxed. They feel

happy, curious, they want to get to know the other person. They are not reactive. They sit down in a relaxed way. They've someone's expressed delight to them. But then as they start to talk, their date starts to lose interest, starts the eye contact is dropped, the other person kind of uh looks away or makes a a subtle facial c you know, expression that doesn't in any way

uh mirror or align up with what the speaker wants, now suddenly the person goes into the sympathetic mobilization state. Now they're suddenly reactive. Now Suddenly the re the midline region of the frontal lobe is just having repetitive, intrusive thoughts. They're they're trying harder to maintain attention. They're no longer relaxed. They're no longer curious. Bye. uh stop you know uh asking questions.

They um yeah, they no longer they're leaning forward now rather than leaning back. Now they're um their eyes are darting about looking for even more signs of emotional abandonment. they're probably going to speak in a heightened, faster uh level because they're in this mobilization state. And Finally, suppose out of the blue the day their date says, I'm sorry, this isn't for me, gets up and leaves.

Um, then the person who remains might go into what's called the dorsal dive, the shutdown. They might become suddenly depressed or ashamed. What's the matter with me? What did I do wrong? They might m move sluggishly. They're no longer responsive to other people uh they're distraught. And so we can go very quickly from those three states. There's a famous experiment

The Still Face Experiment and Triggers

Um uh what's his name? Tringer? No. Uh I'll remember his name. Uh uh he did the still face experiment where babies are with mothers and the babies are bouncing on the mother's lap and the mother is smiling and then the instruction is for the mother to show a still m emotionless face. And very quickly the baby goes from the social engaged, relaxed, curious, happy. Engaged to suddenly frantic now at the To get attention of the mother, it's pushing the mother it's

crying, its nervous system is activated, and then finally the baby eventually goes into a collapse freeze response. And this can happen all within the course of a minute.

Daily Monitoring Your Nervous System

So it's very important to know that um if your nervous system constantly idles too hot, if you are always in a low-level stress response. It will take very little shift and other people's cues or behaviors to flip you into full reactive fight flight, uh confrontational or very defensive interactions. The absolute most important is to not wait.

until we're in triggering situations to try to get a handle on our nervous system. It's very important throughout the day to maintain this kind of low level, ongoing checking in with our nervous system. And You can note what state your nervous system is in by just a couple of different things. One is the muscles in your belly, tight. Uh a soft belly is almost invariably a sign that you're not in the sympathetic, mobilized, chronic stress.

When people's abdomens are relaxed, it means generally that the vagal nerve as and the social engaged system is on. Uh if your bre if your outbreaths are complete, you're not just quickly gulping air, that's a sign. If You can uh think more than one thought in response to how other people are speaking. you're probably more leaning towards the social engaged. The more people go into chronic stress.

The more they just had the same kind of thought over and over, where's my keys? God damn it, who moved my keys? I'm sure my keys were there. Um so um uh and obviously if you're in a dissociative state, well, you're probably gonna be a bit checked out. So even m trying to monitor when you're in that state is probably already you're too far gone. But you pull will note that people feel very far away, there's very little pleasure, you feel like there's no reward or motivation.

Um but it's worthwhile to check in. Um other subtle cues when you're in social engage, your shoulders are gonna be dropped. They're not gonna be up like this. When you talk to people, you're gonna be in a more relaxed posture. You'll probably even be leaning back. On the other hand, when you're in a kind of stressful conversation, you'll notice you won't be fully relaxed leaning back in the chair. You notice you won't take comfortable breaths.

Yeah, you notice that you won't be able to pause. And so um those are some key markers.

Mindfulness for Nervous System Regulation

Now, in Buddhism, the way this is done is through mindfulness practice. It's a 2500-year-old practice where we maintain ongoing awareness first of just Am I breathing in? Am I breathing out? What's the status of my body, especially your belly? And then you also note are you comfortable or uncomfortable? Those are the first two of the four foundations of mindfulness.

And the more you w anyone practices those, the more they're gonna be able to know when it's time to Undertake the practices that indirectly, not directly, because you can't consciously switch yourself from stress. to non stress, but you can take you can undergo practices that eventually as a by product will bring you back to social engage. Like, for example,

External Cues for Regulation

Simply switching the social setting you're in, uh people are social tribal species and we respond to the social environments we're in. If you uh move from a setting with people whose Uh you don't know very well, you don't necessarily feel uh confident in their responses, you don't always feel that they are interested in your internal states.

they then if you move to a setting with people that are uh far more curious far more interested, far more uh engage, make eye contact, are less emotionally aloof. That will very quickly change your nervous system. Orienting to safety cues, you're right, singulate orients. by looking around in the background, you're not aware of it, but it's constantly looking for threats. So if you

Have if you're in a triggering environment or you feel yourself stressed, look away from people's faces. Um looking at people's faces, especially people you don't know, activate regions of the brain, um That uh fusiform gyrus and uh the insula and uh uh medial temporal lobe. I'm geeking out on the neuroscience. But anyway, it it engages regions of your brain that have a tendency also to activate the amygdala and the midbrain.

So looking away from faces, looking away from crowds, looking up into space, look at mirrors, doorways, exits. Um that actually will actually slow down cognition. Slow belly breaths. I was reading an interview with the neuroscient or maybe listening to an interview with a neur famous neuroscientist Joseph Ledoux, and they asked him when he's stressed out, what is it that he does to

uh de-stress, to relax, to settle down. And he says the foremost thing for anyone to do is breathe slower, especially exhale. Uh, inhalations are sympathetic. That's why when people are running, they're gulping air, but they're hardly breathing out. They're just gulping in. breath, but when people are in the parasympathetic states, they're you know, like sleep, the exhalations are long. So whenever you're anxious, just stretch out that exhalation as long as your inhalation.

Internal Strategies for Regulation

Uh some other tools, um self hugs. You know, lots of people do the butterfly where they cross their hands in front of their chest and they tap right and left, that actually stimulates the vagal nerve and mimics also the feeling of early attachment. Um placing one hand on your forehead, the other on the back of your neck, those are higher vagus nerves.

regions. So if you wr just rest them very often um they w switch us back down into social engage, moving your eyes very slowly from far left to far right and back. Um that overrides the kind of stress um jumpy attention looking for threats. And if you've ever heard of EMDR, which is a therapeutic modality, that lies very much at the

the crux of how it works. People who are in chronic threat alert states by just slowly looking all the way to the right and then slowly looking across the horizon to the left, the less you even use your face and you just use your eye muscles. Um that actually over time relaxes. uh in uh somatic practitioners and other modalities and buddhism as well, titrating, a moving slower, walking slower.

uh doing any activity slower shifts us out of the chronic stress back down into social engage. Um And security priming, there's a lot of while we can't think our way out of stress, we can use visualizations to downregulate our autonomic nervous system. That means visualize a place That you feel really safe? Close your eyes and visualize a figure that's associated with unconditional love. This is how both spiritual paths and twelve step and Buddhist

uh practices in Buddhism it's known as Buddha Nusati and Deva Nusati. You close your eyes, you visualize a figure that transmits nothing but unconditional friendliness, you know, the the four Brahmavaras in Buddhism are almost identical to the four core attachment needs that we have from cradle to grave, which are uh a safe figure that's available, attentive,

Soothing and expresses delight. So if you can burn into your mind an image of any figure, it could be uh a Gandhi, it could be uh uh well for me when I first did these uh practices like the ideal parent and the um Secure priming. I used the same figure that made me feel safe when I was a kid, which was the character Spock on Star Trek.

Um, because Spock was the exact opposite of my dad, who was bipolar and alcoholic, and who had extreme impulse dysregulation. So Spock was this very regulated, relaxed, The most you'd ever get out of him was a raised eyebrow, which for me was so soothing and so relaxing. So, you know, I w I can use Leonard Nimoy as uh wait, yeah, was that his name? Anyway, uh as uh you know, as an image Uh you could use Mr. Rogers if you're also my in my in Gen X or older. You could use

SpongeBob SquarePants, I don't care. Figure out your own figure that denotes security, safety, love, and just burn it into your mind before stressful interactions. And finally, when you do focus attention on positive memories, savor the feelings in your body, really spread the ease throughout. So that's tonight's talk.

Preparing for Meditation Practice

Um we're now going to go into a uh Meditation. I will say that I've only given a fraction of the tools available. My wife, Kathy, who's a somatic um practitioner, SEP, who also is a um uh does the work at various clinics and with people. But she did a deck called Daily Pause, which has like all fifty different tools for regulating your nervous system. So if you want to geek out on it

Um, have all of the tools available. That's a really good. I'm really proud of her. I think that's a shameless plug for Kathy's deck. So anyway, let's all relax, settle down, meditate.

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I'm gonna have some water because I've been yabbering on for 40 minutes. So you can go off screen. You don't have to meditate on screen. You can, if you want, just shut the video off or lie down. Find your most comfortable seated position. And um yeah, when you're ready, close your eyes.

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Guided Belly Breathing Meditation

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Bringing the attention

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to the belly, your abdominal region. And just see if you can soften and relax.

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When you breathe in, imagine your belly expanding like a beach ball being uh inflated. And then as you breathe out slowly, very slowly, softening the belly. So we're just going back and forth between a fully overinflated Beach ball belly, and then as you relax and breathe out a very Relax. Settled

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And if you want to establish a good breathing rhythm for Relax and digest the social engage homeostasis. You can count to four with your in breaths and then count to four with your exhalations. Try not to ever push out the breath, but just release it.

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To do that very often I If I do use at all the mouth, I keep the mouth opening very small.

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Some people breathe in through the nose and breathe out through the mouth.

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So probably just softening the ballet and breathing slower. You might notice a subtle very subtle shift in how You feel whether you're comfortable or not, you might notice that there's a slight Reduction and thought or maybe you feel a little bit more tired.

Deep Relaxation and Sound Awareness

And to relax even more of the body, just raise your shoulders up towards your ears with the in-breath, rotate them back, and then with the outbreath. Just drop them as far away your shoulders as far away from the ears as possible, so that you're in a kind of Just fully release, stay, and then Survey your body, and if there's any other muscles that are clench, the jaw. The forehead.

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The fists, buttocks, any area of your body that just feels like you could relax, with an in breath, tighten the muscles, clench the jaw, furrow the brow, and then With the exhalation release.

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If you'd like to open up your awareness, expand it to sounds in your environment but not sounds of people talking. Try to listen to sounds that are Ongoing homes fans.

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Wind

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If you grow too tired, then you can by all means listen to cars and people talking. But to relax ongoing sounds

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Visualizing Supportive and Friendly Figures

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Bringing to mind a figure that you associate with

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friendliness and support. It can be a real person, you know. It can be a character that doesn't exist, or it can be someone who who's real that we've never met. It could be an historical figure or spiritual.

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The idea is to try to have a visual image or just a very simple name that you repeat softly in your mind.

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If there's any see if you can try to spread it. through your body

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Trying to get to a

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Stay where there's No. sense you need to be anywhere else, be doing anything else. But you can come to a complete stop.

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That you can really linger in this moment.

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Envisioning Positive Social Interactions

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So if you'd like finally visualize yourself in a setting with people who are friendly. Making eye contact. Where you feel you can take your time to respond.

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There's a friendliness in the exchanges Both confident and interested. You don't feel judged?

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And just how does that feel in your body?

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Observing Stress Responses and Shifting

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Imagine suddenly you're in a conversation with someone and they are impatient. Looking disinterested, you don't feel

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Appreciated.

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Whatever positive cues you were receiving earlier no longer present.

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You feel you have to change tact or

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Maybe suddenly just this kind of sense that you're no longer uh Confident of the response you'll get. And just notice. If you can, any subtle shifts in your nervous system, how you breathe, your musculature, how you sit.

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Expressions on your face. It's good to know when we're moving in and out of social engage. And even when this happens, rather than fall into the trap of Doubting ourselves or trying harder. We can just once again breathe out, soften the belly, smile, just imagine ourselves. Like uh nodding and moving away back to people that are friendly. We don't have to stay, keep trying.

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So that's about all our time. Whenever you're ready to return.

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