Welcome to Designing Success from Study to Studio. I'm your host, Rhiannon Lee, founder of the Oleander Finch Design Studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare and wrote down the framework so you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you can expect real talk with industry friends, community, connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now let's get designing your own success.
On today's podcast, I had the absolute pleasure of interviewing a former frameworker of mine, Sarah. Sarah runs Yuzu interiors. Some of you may be aware of some of her amazing Instagram reels and posts. She is all about color pattern. If you haven't checked her out, please go to the show notes and go through and enjoy, because if you are a fan of color, you will absolutely love everything about her business, but I've watched Sarah from when we initially And she just was like, I have no idea.
I don't know what, you know, nothing business, nothing marketing. I've done the design degree. That's it. What do I do next? And I just, she is my quiet achiever. She's very quietly in the background, puts one foot in front of the other, shows up daily, backs herself says yes to all the opportunities, to the collaborations, goes after what she wants. She's not loud. She's not in your face. Her designs are bold, fun. Enthusiastic.
And I just love everything about the business that she is building and has built. And I know you're going to love these insights from her today, because if you are in your first year or year and a half, I just really enjoyed hearing what it's been like and what sort of challenges have shown up. So enjoy my conversation today with Sarah from Yuzu interiors. Hello. Hello. How are you? Yeah, really good. Thanks. Yeah. Just yeah. Getting nice and busy, which is good.
And yeah, lots of quite a few more inquiries and interesting like little things. Bolder feeling, isn't it? It's like pebbles to a little bit bigger stone to you've just gotta get into it. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. Yeah. Quite a few inquiries lately and I think definitely more of my ideal client coming through as well, which is awesome. More. Yeah. Yeah. Color focused the content that you're sharing is very it's very clear what your niche is and what you're doing.
It's not every now and again, you just throw in a neutral like palette and a bit of modern organic. Like it's very much like this is the place to be if you're looking for twisty and brave and you want to do something a bit quirky. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Definitely. What I enjoy the most. That's for sure. Good. All right. So let's just jump straight into it. I'm gonna start with really easy one. Yuzu Interiors. What does yuzu mean to you? Why? Why that name?
So initially it came about, my husband and I moved our family to Japan in 2017. We were lucky enough to live there for three years. And I'd never heard of yuzu or knew what a yuzu was, but we learned that over there, that it was this unique sort of citrus fruit. It wasn't a lemon. It wasn't a lime. It was this really cool unique fruit on its own. And When I was trying to think of a business name I thought that was quite appropriate for the way I designed and my design style.
I yeah it's be a little bit different, a little bit unique, bit zesty. Yeah. So I thought that was that was really appropriate. And I liked the way the word sounded as well. I thought it was yeah, nice and punchy. So went with that. It's got a nice easy to spell, easy to remember, all those things that we teach in the framework and try to look for what should your name be? I really like it too. So within your business, when I think of Yuzu, I always think of color.
I think of pattern clashing, bravery with color, quirkiness, like I never know what to expect from your account. And those killers stop animation reels. Such a great part of my week. I don't know that they come out every week, but I'm so excited every time I come across one, they've become a part of your brand signature. How did that all come about? How did you learn to do that?
I think it came about after workshopping some ideas with you and at one of our marketing workshops and I think without having a lot of photography behind me, not many projects to start with, I really wanted to find a way to. Get my style across and I felt like moot standalone mood boards weren't really enough in a way.
So yeah, I just had a bit of a play around on Canva and found, some unique ways to get it across and really show the color and style and pattern and create that mood, that I wanted to show that I was capable of, and hopefully get some people interested to use them for their interiors in real life. Yeah. And they've evolved a little bit too.
I can see you like, obviously, like all creatives, we don't just want to get stagnant being like, we learned this one template in Canva and we just do it over and over. I see you. Pushing the boundaries, testing other animations, looking at how things could work and taking them into other rooms to do some dining rooms and then book a bedroom and, heading into the living room and things like that. I really love watching, but you never really know what you're going to get.
I'm always waiting to see different ceiling wallpapers, or I feel like that's your brand is quite unexpected post. It's not very much Oh, it's mood board Monday. We're just going to get that 2d looking New bot. That's good. Like it's been actually really taken me back a little bit with a response with them. I didn't felt like that maybe they were a little bit gimmicky at the beginning. But the feedback's been really a little bit overwhelming, but really positive.
And I'm sometimes I think really like people say that they love them or really enjoy them. And I'm still a bit shocked, but it's been really awesome to hear. So many people enjoy them. Yeah. It's something different too. Like we're scrolling through that's what every guru out there saying, stop the scroll or do something to get noticed or do a hook, do a, say a thing, be controversial. You don't have to do those things. If you've got something else that's Oh, I'm not seeing anyone doing that.
So that's tech that's giving me give, I want to watch to the end straight away, because I want to decide. It's the human psychology is I want to have a bit of a vote of which of these vignettes looks best or, it's very clever, very well done. And I imagine takes up hours and hours of your time. Yep, absolutely. I have had a few people request tutorials and things. And I think if you knew how long it would take you, you wouldn't ask, you wouldn't be asking. So I haven't done that yet.
It has opened some collaborations and some doors. So in terms of networking and people dropping into your DMs? You said, and saying that they love them, which is fantastic because most people like love this, keep scrolling, don't even like it. So what sort of opportunities has that given you? Yeah, it's been fantastic. Some artists have reached out which has been really nice. And I've worked with a couple of amazing artists to promote their work.
The interior design Institute that I studied with have been really supportive as well. And we're doing a bit of a collaboration at the moment, which is really fun around some of the subjects that they teach within their course. that's been awesome as well. It's been really positive. Does that blow your mind a little bit? Because I know it's it's not that long ago that I spoke to you and you're like, I'm just coming near the end of my interior design institute degree or whatnot.
And for me, I remember when it felt like I was looked upon as someone that could inspire someone else to come and join the industry. I was like, what, say what now? Excuse me. And yeah it's quite a full circle in not such a long time. Yeah, like a hundred percent. I look back. I think, yeah, it wasn't that long ago when I first started my Instagram account. And if you scroll all the way to the bottom, it's far from what it is now.
It is really nice to be working with these guys and yeah, I guess you think about it and think, oh, wow, that's amazing. But Yeah. At the same time, you think, Oh yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of work goes in, like you scroll to back to the beginning and you look all the way through, like when you look at that, you feel the journey of effort as well. And the trial and error and Nope, nobody liked that one. Nope. Nobody liked that one.
And then even the reels, there are reels that you posted that should be getting the kind of traction that some of them do now. But back then the audience just wasn't there. People didn't have the buy in. They didn't know you do. They didn't know what you're about. Yeah. You didn't know what you were about. I remember you're like, maybe a bit of this, bit of that.
And that must be really nice to look back on, given that you've you've got this living portfolio over the last year where you can go, we tried a lot and some stuck and some didn't. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. Yeah, it does offer a bit of validation because like you said, they can take hours and hours to create. And then when you hit posts and nothing happens, you're like, Oh, that was a lot of wasted time. But in the end it does work out, I think, which is really nice.
And we always go on and on about consistency and things. I have seen complete consistency from your account since the first time that you were like, all right let's get into it. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to have a go. Has that been a value of yours? Have you put effort into, have you had to put effort into that? Is there anything you've had to really reach hard into to be like, I have to show up today because I said I would, or how are you approaching that?
I think especially when in the beginning, when I didn't have as many clients it was much easier to get on there and really put the effort through Instagram. Every day I definitely think it has dropped off, unfortunately a little bit because now I've got a lot more client work, which is the part of the side of it, the design that I really do love the most anyway. So the effort for the Instagram is So it does take a little bit extra work and time to focus on that. But that's okay.
Yeah. And you're using it across platforms because obviously such a lot of effort and Instagram real, realistically might live for 48 hours and then might get picked up a little bit. Later down the line, but we're not banking on that. Whereas a Pinterest, having that live on Pinterest gets attention as a bit of a moving animated pin. And then that could last five, 10 years and still be like bringing in new eyes. Are you in that world?
I do have, I have clicked on the button on Instagram where it automatically posts to Pinterest. But I, that doesn't work. Yeah, so I definitely need to look more into that and that is on the to do list, but I haven't got there yet. You can't do all things at all times. It was, I was Simply curious because it's such extremely valuable content.
And of course you can upload all of your Instagram stuff to connect it to Canva and then repost it without Instagram watermarks and stuff, straight into Pinterest use Marius and all that kind of there's so much that you can do which we can talk about offline, Anyone is listening and heard that reaction of mine, that visceral reaction, if you are offered to connect your Instagram and Pinterest, please promise me you will not take that bait because it absolutely tanked my Pinterest account.
So I went from 193, 000 monthly followers, basically down to about 14, 000 and have had to build it back up again. By disconnecting that connection. And the reason is if you do a carousel of 10 pitches in that carousel, it does 10 individual pins with that caption, but like carousel number three doesn't make sense as a standalone image or like the text on the third carousel might just be like, and so then I said it's just not good Pinterest, like I would not pin that to save it forever.
So when you're doing Pinterest, you're. You're pretty much putting up things that are going to inspire people that people want to put in their boards and go, Oh, I love that. I need to keep it. That we're like little I don't know, like birds looking for little twigs for our nest and all the things that we like by birds or whatever. And I feel like, yeah, when you auto connect it, a lot of stuff that's not. Inspiring enough goes in and it dilutes the whole message.
So that's, I'm just public service announcements. Don't come at me any of the platforms. It's great that they have done it, but I don't think it's a bit like how you shouldn't really just. Auto populate what you do on Instagram into Facebook. Now you shouldn't, but I do. So I'm not going to cast any shade. I'd rather do that than nothing, but actually Facebook is its own platform. It needs its own strategy.
It needs, the way that we write captions or posts or share posts on Facebook is actually quite different to the massive captions we have in Instagram are like, Oh, not reading too long. Did it read on Facebook? So we should have different slight different tweaks for different things. So as much as it looks like the easy way, it could also really damage what you're trying to achieve. That's enough of my Ted talk about that. Write that down. Just undo it.
It took, me quite a bit of Googling and it's like, they made it quite hard. We were talking about sort of your signature color and bravery. And there are a few accounts that I can think of where I see that. And I'm like, Oh, synonymous, greenhouse. I know that I'm going to get lots of color, lots of pattern. But have you found that sort of style aesthetic is loved up in your location? Like where you are people loving that? No, I don't think so.
It's definitely a little bit more foreign up here on the Sunshine Coast. The predominant style is more that coastal, I guess the three bird style, light oak white interiors, which is absolutely beautiful. But I am getting more and more inquiries up here for people that are searching for a bit more color and pattern in their interiors. I think they can see that Um, more, I guess, if it's their forever home they want it to really resonate with them and be a part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Unique to them.
So they've been reaching out more, which has been a little bit surprising, but really nice. Feel like there's still place like in a design like that, there's still sort of room for a color splash where you come in and you pick it that, that deep aquamarine art and those pink things that go with a fully white coastal light Oak. There's a lot of color, a lot of fun.
Even if your sofas are white, your walls are white, your carpets, oatmeal, like everything is I love that when you can also get that real Depth of color by having a few pieces there. So hopefully, people do start to move in that direction. And when, whenever we think about our wardrobes and things, I always think down here in Melbourne, we're all in black and it's always a funeral. We're always going to the theater. It's always this dark, but Queenslanders wear a lot of color.
And when we look at what we wear is usually what we like to be surrounded by. I think there's definitely opportunity for some of those people who have that. Ability to recognize that it's sunny, it's bright, it's happy and color makes you feel good. It's funny you say that actually I had an inquiry yesterday from a lady who she said she'd stalked me on Instagram and then made the inquiry because of the outfit that I was wearing and my profile picture was bright colors.
And so she thought, Oh, that would be someone that, yeah, I should inquire with because if she dresses like that, then hopefully her. Designed to like that as well. And if she saw your Instagram feed, it's mate, you're in the right place. And you have scrolled down, you cannot deny that I can deliver. Yeah. What one thing has been a game changer for your business since you started?
I think focusing on the color side of things, I think initially, and I know we discussed this in the framework, I had it in my head that I needed to convert everyone to love color. Even the people that definitely preferred more of a neutral aesthetic. And then so just going all in on, on my love of color and pattern. And you said. And it has happened that people will find you and follow follow you from that. That's definitely been a game changer.
And I think when I studied interior design, I loved all aspects of it in my head. I was like, I'll do whatever, like anything I'll do whatever direction it takes me. I'll just do what I love at all. But as I have progressed and done work for friends and other people that hasn't been solely around the color side of things, I have noticed that it's been A bit more draining and it's doesn't light me up in the same way. It's hard to deliver a full neutral home, isn't it? And it's not your jam.
And in fact, you sent me something or you showed me something. I remember once and I was like, okay, how was that for you? Like I could tell straight away, like it's almost, it's not that the love isn't in it. It's just not utilizing your skill because it's actually just letting you like, So you're like, okay yep, I do know you need something taller in that corner and I'll get you a mirror for there.
And you just punching in, punching out, doing the do, but you're not all the way lit up like, Oh my God, she's giving me money and I get to do what, I get to spend it on all the things I love and then I'm going to see it and it's amazing. Absolutely. And I love the challenge of it too. Like sometimes the clients have been even more out there than me, but I love yeah, finding a way to incorporate the pieces they already have and just create spaces that they really love.
And it's not always easy, but I think. Yeah. Part of the thrill for me is that challenge behind it, which is really exciting. Have you had any pushback? Have you had to pull some clients into a braver result or have you had anyone say, Oh, I don't think that's for me. I don't think I could or anything like that. I haven't actually at this stage, I haven't for the clients that have reached out through Instagram.
They've been, yeah, really happy with The designs so far and I think the other ones that have been more referrals from school moms and things like that which do have been more of a neutral sort of aesthetic. I'm pretty good at understanding what they want, so I don't try and push them too far. Yeah. You just facilitate that and get that done and get out the other side and rather than, yeah.
And I think that's a real testament to your Instagram feed and to the work that you've done to call in your ideal client and to actually be like, this is what I do really well. And people are actually, lurking, spying, checking you out before they reach out. And this is something that we have talked about at great detail in lots of workshops and in the framework around.
You do, if you build it, you do get to a stage where that inquiry be at web inquiry, just an incoming discovery called that conversation is around pricing and availability, not suitability. So that what is what you're building a beautiful portfolio that they can check out first. So they're like, this is the designer for me. And when they call, you can hear it in their breath. I hope I can afford her. I hope she has space for me.
So it's almost, it's just, it's a very lovely way to run a business and it's well worth, if you're listening out there and you don't think that you have that it's well worth saying, how do I, Make, go and check out Yuzu. I'll put all the links in the show notes and so on, and look at the Instagram feed and think, does mine say something similar about who I am and who is my best client? Because you will absolutely be missing out on some clients.
Some of those three birds ish aesthetics, some of those neutrals, but what you miss out there, you make up for because you take on the right people and you're actually having a much better time. Absolutely. Was there a part of the business money marketing or sales side of things that really tested you in the beginning that you struggled to understand? All of them, and they still test me today. Yeah, absolutely.
I think the money side of things, initially, you're just trying to, you're happy for any money to be coming in, so I think you like you mentioned already, you feel like, oh, someone's paying. Me to do this, like that's amazing. So any money in the bank is a bonus, but as time goes on and you get busier, I think it's important to I'm starting to see that it is important that my time is valuable. So I need to be charging the right amount.
Even if it doesn't feel It shouldn't feel comfortable, but it's also the additional things that, in that first year, you sometimes don't even write down on the tracker or whatever, and that's all the investments, things like being in the framework or having mentorship, things like I've bought this extra software. I've subscribed. All these subscriptions coming out of the woodworks that you didn't have before on a monthly basis. They're not supposed to just be like, I, because I love my job.
Like they are, you've got to track them really carefully and realize like it is my profit. There is no profit until all that's taken care of and everything, and you're on the other side of that. Your hours are paid, everything's paid. And then the profit is very little usually in the beginning. Yep. Definitely. I think I had a deposit come in the other day and then straight out, I had to pay for my insurance for the year. So yeah, it doesn't last long. Yeah. And it's, it is just.
evolution to get to a point where you're no longer tracking like that comes in, better get another client because that's due. You when you've got your regular clients, it's a little bit, takes a bit of pressure off thankfully. That's good. And how have you felt in general with the industry? The vibe is with other designers. Have you had more like friendly, supportive chats or any competitive sparks? There are some specific.
Do you have any specific designers that I can think of that like work in that same like color pattern space and are known for it? Are you in a color gang or are you at war? Definitely in a gang. I think yeah, anyone that I've spoken to, honestly, it's been so friendly and supportive and amazing. And hopefully they feel the same from my end. I think it's great actually. I think the more people around that have. That love color and promote color and design the better for all of us.
I've honestly never encountered any animosity between a designer that loves color or doesn't love color. Everyone's been really supportive. It's it's actually yeah. Pleasant surprise. Cause you do hear stories a little bit coming in. Yeah. It's almost like before your first day of. I year seven or whatever. And everyone says, you're going to get your head flushed down the toilet. And they talk about the interior design industry.
Like you're going to get your head flushed down the toilet or someone's going to mean girl, you're out of the industry and I've never seen it. I've never seen it anywhere. I run a, I speak to all these designers who generously give up their time to help other designers become designers is majority women in the industry, all so friendly, every networking thing, like I just. Yeah. I don't know where it's come from. I don't know why we've got a bad name. No, everyone's been amazing.
And I think definitely the, like the girls from the framework group, we've got a OG framework group now from everyone that's left and yeah, every day we sort of someone or message and get advice from each other and it's yeah, invaluable, honestly, it's really good. Yeah. That's nice to hear. So far, have we had any tough feedback? Honestly, no, not from any designs that I've sent through no I'm trying to think.
There has been, with some, a couple of proposals, there's been some, let's reduce the scope and things like that, which has been totally fine. But have they still all gone ahead? Yes. One that was a bigger project and initially it was all the bells and whistles. And then once the proposal came through, they decided to either reduce the scope by quite a bit or just, we ended up going with a consultation sort of package, which has worked out really well. So that still went ahead.
Yeah. Yeah. So that tells me a lot about your pricing and your conversion rates. So we might want to chat offline about that. If everyone's a yes, you're too cheap. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah, it is nice though, because again, what I was talking about before with like, when you are pushing people to possibly explore options, they wouldn't have done themselves because they're not doing the research and pulling together the look.
It's really great to hear that there hasn't been a bit of Oh, we didn't like anything on the concept. Can you try again? Cause that's us quite. Deflating like it's awful feeling. I do put in my email out when I do send the proposal all the concepts through, I do say it's okay if you don't like it, happy to make changes, blah, blah, blah. But deep down, you're hoping that they love it, but you're always open to changes because yeah, you want them to be happy.
Got any secrets for us around how you juggle business and personal time? Have you felt like that's something that you're getting better at, getting worse at, were always good at, always a bit dicey on? Like where are you at with the juggle? It's a massive juggle. I think it's a little bit of a roller coaster. My husband's extremely supportive. He's ready to retire. So he'll do whatever I ask at this point. But he travels a lot with his work, doesn't he? He has in the past.
Yeah. He isn't at the moment, but he might again. Yeah. In the future. But yeah, I think the challenging part for me was, I really, I love designing. It's such a passion of mine and I honestly felt like I could do it all day, every day, but then I do have to make time for the kids and spend quality time with them as well. Making sure that they're happy. And as time goes on, I do find that I need to. Step away from work a little bit more. And that makes me happier as well.
Like I do need that break. It is, a huge struggle. You forget to take it, can't you? You're just searching for the perfect sideboard. And meanwhile, your kids, you look up and they're both like, emancipated with the bowl being like, ah, where's dinner? You're like, oh, oops, I'm still here. Yeah, absolutely. Like all creative things, you just get in a zone. Like you can sometimes just not realize it's been, an hour and a half when you meant it to be a six minute thing.
And, time tracking is really good for that. And the awareness that you get from actually being like, Ooh. I actually take a little bit longer than I anticipated to do this or that. I just think I'm fast, but time flies when you're having fun. You're actually still taking a lot of time. You're just enjoying what you're doing. Being a bit of a perfectionist doesn't help that scenario either. I am certainly a lot slower than I would like to be, but all these things take time, to get better at.
I guess you would notice that even, and I've always said that to you guys, the way. Like mood boarding five years in, on the same platform, you're obviously going to be so much speedier than someone who's five weeks in and has had five mood boards to opportunity to practice. But what you've been doing with your animations and things, I imagine that you can see a speed difference.
Now, if you were to make one, you still know it takes a lot of time versus when you were trying to work it out or when you were trying to like originally do it and be like that's one day less now. Yeah, absolutely. So where is this all going with you Zhu? Where do you see yourself in your like whole thing, not your five year plan, but what's in the future? What are we thinking? I would really love to get more clients locally. I'd love to see more of the designs that we create in person.
I've got some amazing clients that I've done e design for, but yeah, I'd really love some of the designs that similar to the reels that I've been creating to come to life in some real homes locally that I can really be a part of, that would be amazing. You've got to put out like your. Missing persons or romance ads or whatever, but you want to be like looking for the color enthusiasts in the local area, find out where they hang out. Where, what are they doing? Yeah, absolutely.
Is there anything that you've seen lately in the design world that you're excited about? Anything new? I don't know if it's just because I surround myself with this every day, but I do think there is more and more color coming into design. I don't know whether you've noticed that as well. 100%. Yeah that's really exciting. I think people are willing to embrace it more and more. People are realizing you can love color. It doesn't have to be bold and in your face.
It can be subtle, but it can really be, have a beautiful impact on your homes and the way you live. So I think people are willing to embrace it more, which is really exciting. I think people also are finally willing to paint the walls of color and understand it's just paint and you can paint it back hogs bristle if you really have to like, and you can paint it.
Just seeing some people and even just doing some consults and going in and being like, Oh wow, like you already have a full, color drenched room or you've got some stuff going on. I just, I am loving that shift seeing people remove white from the house basically, and start really playing with. With what can be done, especially homeowners who are willing to paint again, they're probably more brave. My husband hate me for saying this, but I'm one of those. Cause I don't do the painting.
I do the color choosing. So I'm like, let's just do it. If I don't like it, you can paint it again. You can paint it. No, it's really good. I think a lot of the inquiries I've had in a few of the clients that I've had are in color enthusiasts, but they're just working on how to pull it all together. So they just need someone else's, yeah style and a different eye to make sure it all works. Just support with the confidence to sometimes people like I'm willing to paint it.
I want you to tell me it'll work with the light and the orientation of my house, or I want you to consider some things that are more like on a professional scale to make sure that the. Before the paintbrush hits the wall, we're all pretty sure. Cause right now I've just got an idea. Yeah, absolutely. How has being mentored or being in a group mentoring program helped in it? Like how has that changed?
You can't go obviously the other way, the unmentored first year of Yuzu, but what do you think it's brought to the business? It's been like an absolute game changer, I think. I think the biggest thing is it's given me confidence to do things that I wouldn't necessarily have done otherwise.
I've put myself out there and I think with you in particular, Rhiannon, you're so good at Being honest and supportive at the same time, that if you have a suggestion, you'll tell you, you'll tell us exactly what you think, whether it's good or bad in a nice way. But I think that's really good because then we know that you're honest and we can trust. Trust what you're saying.
And so when we do have a idea that you're really supportive of, it gives us like a huge amount of confidence going forward. I think that's been the best thing about being mentored. Giving me confidence I think someone else filtering the stinkers. Yeah, pretty much. When I said it's something I'm like, it's. It's an interesting concept. Let me tell you what I'm worried about.
Like listing all the red flags I'm seeing straight away from and it's interesting because from where I sit not only have I lived it the first year of running my business, but then I've also supported so many people to do it that often the ideas. Yeah. Something they've also had, or in one way or another, they've attempted something. And so it allows you to go, here's the three attempts that I'm aware of and what happened. So here's the data, but you could still succeed in this.
If this is so truthfully where you're supposed to be and aligned with what you could do, anyone. Everything's open to anyone if you want to go and get it, but here's the like warning signs along the way. And then you've got to make a decision about how fearfully you're going to make that work is some things are harder than others. Yeah, absolutely. And I think we've spoken about it in the framework as well. Many designers or I know I am in particular, we're quite introverted.
So to have that support and confidence from you and the other girls in the framework is really helpful. Yeah. It's very hard to be both Introverted and the only cheerleader for your business. Like the only advocate, the face of the business, you're the admin, you're all the things you might be the CEO, but that doesn't mean you can sit in your closed office with the door shut because you're also the marketing manager and you're also the talent.
So you have to show up and it's a real challenge for people because. That's just hard. No one said it was easy. It's actually just hard. It doesn't come with a team. By the time you can afford a team, you're actually quite confident at doing the things that you would have immediately been like, I wish I could give this to someone else. And there's no one way there's so many ways of making it work. Like you've made a lot of excellent content that does not involve your face.
You have shown up, and your face is in your biopic, like that's great, but, it isn't the main way that you build trust, and you are getting inquiry through, Your Instagram account, which means you have now that balance of being like, it's a little bit faceless, but I have an opinion and I'm willing to share it. I'm willing to say it. So all of your captions have stories and like they're written first person about you from you.
What your thoughts are, and then the occasional drop in hello in the stories, which I'm sure will grow as time goes on. Images, photography taken at projects with you in it, that sort of stuff. So it's just having a bit of a mix that can always tip a little bit more to the face to camera stuff, but it's not a disaster if you can't, or you won't, or you don't do that. I'm just trying to highlight that you can still get inquiry.
You're not like, like mine, which is just narcissistic face everywhere. Like I just talk all the time. I don't mind. I think it's easier to show up and say it than to write it all out and build up a carousel. I'm like, I'll just tell them what I think. That's funny. I yeah, I don't know why I just find it. Yeah. That part is really challenging. I'm not really sure why.
I think I had spoken to you early on and said when my husband and I lived in Japan, we did an episode of House Hunters International. Still haven't seen it, but I would really like to be able to track it down. I'll send you the link. Yes, please. But the producer had said at the start of the interviews, I think they had something like a 60 million, Viewing audience or something outrageous.
For some reason I managed to pull it off, but I don't know why I can't talk to a thousand people on my Instagram account. But it just goes so much lower than that. Like a thousand if every person that follows you sees your stories, then you are doing so incredibly well. That's not the percentage. If I have 15, 000 followers, there's no way that's who's looking at my stories. Like the percentage is 3 percent or something, like it's something so little. And Yeah, it is one of those things.
It takes practice and it's paralyzing and terrifying. And I remember, so I'm never going to push anyone too hard, but I do think if you think about how you consume Instagram, you really like seeing those accounts where people will just show up and Talk nonsense and, sing a little bit of their favorite song and move on and tell you what annoyed them at the car parking calls and stuff like that. It's really relatable.
It helps you to really feel like, Oh, I just, have no problems paying this deposit. Cause I can see that this person is a kind person who's obsessed with color, who wants to help me with my house. So I'll get there. Yes, for sure. Is there a single tool or resource you don't think you could live with in terms of being able to run your business? At the moment it would definitely be Canva. It's been really helpful. Yeah. Imagine a world before Canva.
There was one, I just didn't have a business, but thank God for that. Cause do you imagine how clip art word looking gross our whole, just my eyes are thankful, my life is thankful for Canva because everyone else is doing things too that just look pretty. And I love that. Yeah. It's yeah, it's been so good. Even if. Instagram wasn't a thing, just being able to produce like the mood boards and everything for your clients just to get your messaging across.
And yeah, I think that would have to definitely be the number one at this stage. I think I'm in Canberra every day as well. Yeah. If it just suddenly went away one day, I think I'd be the saddest of all of the platforms. I just hope you've saved a lot of those templates live out of our notion resource library being like, remember what's something totally left of field that running your business has taught you or something that surprised you about being a business owner?
I think it would be how much I love working with people. I think in the past I've always been in industries that have had a customer service focus. But now I think. It's more personal. I think. I care about their reaction differently to with your job. So you're just like, Oh, okay. I'll pass you on to the customer service team. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in hospitality serving people beer. It probably isn't as quite an intimate relationship. Oh, it could be.
Yeah. Depends how many beers they're up to. Yeah. Good point. But yeah, I've really love working, I've had some such amazing clients so far, really beautiful people that I'd actually love. To just be friends with, I think. That side of it, yeah, is amazing. And to see how happy they are with creating the space, like these beautiful spaces for their homes is yeah, it's really, that's absolutely the best part of designing for me, for sure. Yeah. It's been a little bit of a surprise.
It's a nice surprise and it's also going to steer you well in terms of referrals and repeats. Like knowing, it's been 18 months since I advertised my design services, but it runs on referrals and repeats and it's, I've always had that same feeling with every client like, Oh, I wish we could just hang out. Why don't you just, obviously it's weird, but if you're ever in Melbourne and and a lot of them.
Yeah, a lot of like random support, a lot of, people sent flowers when Marley was born and, people will check in and ask questions related to, what was happening when we were working together a couple of years ago. And yeah, and pass on my details for their friends and family. And it's really, it is really special and it does mean more to you than. When you work for someone else and it's just everyone's loving the product or service. You're like that's the point.
But when you created it and it's so deeply emotional to you, it's lovely. Have you had any client projects that have turned your approach around or made you think, or, cause obviously we you learn in design school for a hypothetical client, we build a business before you have clients. And I'm always harping on about the evolution and you should evolve your things and you should change it. How has that process been for you where you're at now? Have you had to make lots of changes, little changes?
I think my approach changed when I started to do some client work more for friends, but that just really didn't light me up. And I was like, this is not for me. It was wardrobe design, I think was one of them. And it was fine. I wanted to make it look really good for my client. And they were really happy, but I did drag my feet with a little bit.
And that was a bit of a light bulb moment where I thought, no, I need to really The parts that I really do love about design, and that is more the color and and that side of things. So that was, yeah, definitely changed my approach and my focus for sure moving forward. And have you changed your like discovery call, like the way that you approach maybe interviewing them or asking more questions and, have you had to say no to any jobs yet?
Cause you're saying that we don't want to do those, but have you actually had to say, Oh, look that one's probably not for me. I haven't had to say no yet. I have not followed up on a couple that I don't necessarily want. And in the meantime, I have had some inquiries more focused on color and pattern and in the local area too, which validated. Things for me anyway, just to stick with what I love.
I haven't, yeah, if I haven't heard back on a couple, I haven't pursued it as much as I would have in the past. Is there any specific advice you would go? And I viscerally remember the phone call that we had before you started. The framework. And I recall you going, look, I am actually just looking for someone to tell me what to do. And that thing that I do is going to make a move forward. Like I just I'm here to, you're like a little military soldier, I'm reporting for duty.
I'll do whatever you say, as long as it builds me a business. And also it was like, can you take the stress out of the overthinking all of the options? Do you just have effectively a framework that worked for you that will work for me? And so I was like, come on in, let's do it. That's exactly what it is. And do you have some advice or reflections for that person who called me? That's funny. I actually forgot how lost I was before joining the framework.
It's the first time I've thought about that for a while and I really was just had such a scatterbrain. I had no idea where to start, what to do first. Yeah. So I think. Advice for that, for me in that role back then, is that the question? Yeah. Or just like thinking now where you're at, there's been so many times over the course of the framework and then graduated after the framework where you've come so far, we've done so many different things.
There's been heaps of instances where you would have had to hold your nerve and not give up the business because you're still waiting for clients to come and you think I work so hard, no one likes what I'm doing and all that kind of stuff. Some kind words for that Sarah, for that person who's, yeah just keep going. I think yeah, absolutely. It will evolve and it will come.
I remember when I did join the framework and hearing some of the girls that were well into that year working with you in the framework or into that year of their business, and they were starting to see the results and get clients. And I do remember thinking, wow, could that actually be me? I don't just, it seems so far off, but yeah, the year flew by really and just working on the business every day.
And even though some days it did feel like nothing was ever going to happen, I wasn't going to get any clients. Yeah, just, Continuing to work at it. The results really did come. Yeah. Especially following your guidance helped a lot. It's hard though. Cause I can only tell you to hold your nerve so long. People will still have so much self doubt that they're like, I might be your only exception. Like I haven't had anybody graduate without clients.
Like I haven't had anybody go through the framework that has not got themselves into a position where they're now working with clients. And so you. You think, am I going to be your one person? You can't have a hundred percent. You always say perfection is impossible. So you, someone's going to be the guinea pig, and I think I see it in people's faces that they're just going, yeah, I think it could be me, but it's not, it's very normal it's a very frustrating, misaligned expectations.
It's why I constantly at the beginning go, I'm not going to get you clients in six weeks. I'm not six figures in six weeks. That's not me. I'm sustainable business. I'll build your business with you and then you'll be able to use it forever and continue to grow, but you won't really start to feel confidently. Like you get.
Common inquiry and like lots of people reaching out until you gone, like you start getting clients before you leave, but it's really in the six months after the framework, that's when you're really on your own, driving your own results, your marketing's working your, that's where people pop in and go, Oh, I'm going to book all of my quarterly mentor sessions and stuff. Cause they want to check in and. And then go to the next level. But I don't get to see that bit.
I just get the nervous bit where everyone's freaking out. No, it's very nice to be on this side of it. That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. The, some of those days are long and a bit treacherous in the meantime. Absolutely. What do you think has been like a big challenge this year so far? Oh I think just now that I am getting more clients, just balancing everything, the marketing side of things definitely dropped. Yeah, so just.
I think still instilling all the things that you taught us in the framework and making sure I continue those things. So in terms of like marketing on the Sundays, I used to be really good at scheduling my content and things like that. So that sort of flopped a little bit. So that's definitely been the hardest to making sure yeah, that I'm keeping up. We'll have to talk about my AI support assistants because Sylvie does content planning.
So she does your seven days in six seconds and then Otis writes all the captions. So he comes in and writes all of the Instagram captions and then Marius writes all the keyword captions for Pinterest. And you continue to watch the block on a Sunday night while these guys are going crazy.
You go back and personalize, you edit, you make sure it doesn't sound, you make sure it's right on, on target, but definitely there is a system in place now that one and a half hours that I was so excited to get my content planning down to last year has 30 minutes. Which is nice. So yeah, and that's what you need when you've got clients. Cause I have clients, I've got four jobs on at the moment, which is massive for me.
I was only taking one at a time and I don't know how that happened, but can't say no, happy to say no, really love these particular projects and these particular repeat clients. And there's just been a little scheduling a couple of times it's like with school holidays, I'm 100 percent with the kids.
So we put a pause, some things can just scaffold into the other and you're like, Oh, but I love the point that you make around like some of the challenges balancing clients, because they think we don't anticipate. We want to have this language of join the wait list. I've got a wait list. I've got all these clients.
It's who's teaching me how to balance these in my calendar, the phases and actually know like how to deliver in time to start a new one, or like when someone calls you, like it takes years of practice before you actually know whether you can or can't, you just say yes and make it work at two in the morning.
Like you don't actually know if you have capacity until you work on the skill of understanding your calendar properly and understanding What different size projects look like in terms of time and hours in their reality and whether or not you can take them. Have you run into it yet? Have you double, have you taken on too much? Yeah, absolutely.
And I think in your mind, you think, oh, it wouldn't take, doesn't take me that long to do this design, but then you forget all the other things that you have to do during that week as well. So you might actually only have a whole day to do that particular that work. Or what if they don't get back to you in a timely manner with the feedback or stuff? It can sometimes just buy another week that you didn't really have. An expectation that it would take. So you're like, Oh, okay.
Now we're into November and I've got a big project starting and I just need them to tell me if they like, it's cause the writeup is often tricky. Because that's we, we wait to hear everything so that we can create the package to get the final phase payment. Yeah, absolutely. I have put a bit more of a buffer in now just to give myself a bit of breathing room, so I'm not too stressed out, but yeah, work in progress. Yes. Which is a good thing to do as well.
You setting an expectation of longer and then over delivering because you finished it is it continues to surprise and delight your client. So it's always my recommendation to, I would be like, yeah, build that out. People think it's an eight week thing and you happen to return it in three amazing. Like they will not be like I don't want it yet.
I was hoping the only thing, that's a big discrepancy that I, in that example, but, and the only thing that I can think of is where, it's a five figure invoice or whatever, and they're actually budgeting to pay it later, but there's always an option of you going it's ready. So I'm happy to hold onto it, deliver it on its delivery date, or you can have it early. That's a good idea. And are there any things in business right now that are feeling easy? Easy. Oh, I don't want to jinx myself.
No, I'd never say anything felt easy. Everything still takes, time and thought and all that sort of stuff. So not nothing easy in terms of like of getting lots of positive feedback from the reels and things like that, but definitely not easy to produce them or take the time to do them and things like that. The feedback. And to create them, like they're not just, they're not, yeah, they are your artistic work.
You are thinking about what you will do on, what decor goes where and what works with what pieces. Yeah. Next step. We need to make them shoppable somehow. You need to be able to build them through your website where people can fall in love with them and purchase or do something, maybe, I don't know. We need to find the, we need to turn that effort into a revenue stream of some description. That'd be great. Might change what you put in there.
You might be more Amazon led so that you can send them to your Amazon store. And I'll be like interesting. What's going on there? That's funny. Thanks for joining me, Sarah. Thanks so much. It's been a pleasure. Bye for now. That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key. If you found value in today's episode, go ahead and hit subscribe or share it with a friend.
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