Welcome to designing success from study to studio. I'm your host Rhiannon Lee founder of the Oleander and Finch design studio. I've lived the transformation from study to studio and then stripped it bare, took time to write down the step by step framework. So now you don't have to overthink it. In this podcast, you can expect real talk with industry friends, community connection, and actionable tips to help you conquer whatever's holding you back. Now let's get designing your own success.
Hi. How are you? Good. Tell me what inspired you to start the business in the first place? So I was deep into beautiful motherhood at the time. And this is just before this is about a year before lockdown and we had three Children under three. It was the most beautiful blessing, however, as you can imagine, some difficult times. It was hard to process at times.
There were some very long days and as much as we absolutely, as much as I absolutely loved, that those moments in time, I started to feel like I needed something more. In my life, I have a sales background and I've been at home for I was at least 3. 5 years and a good year of that was locked down where we couldn't see anybody, on and off in time. So that was a really pivotal moment for me where I realized that for me to be.
The best mother that I could be in those moments and at that age, I wanted to start doing something else. And I knew that I didn't want to go back to my job. At the time I was a business development manager. I wanted to create a business and I guess a lifestyle that I could carry on with knowing that I would be very involved with my children and their lives as I am now with their school. So I wanted that flexibility. I wanted to be able to be present for our children as much as I could.
And the idea of starting my own business really kicked off in those moments and I got started straight away. I love that you talk about that because people don't often admit to the fact that the wheels on the bus only scratches that ambition itch so far, and it's not very far at all. Is it just, it's not a little, they're so precious, but the days are so long and there has to be some adult content in there. Absolutely.
And, I actually probably wouldn't have spoken so freely about this a couple of years ago. However, It's okay to change your mind. It's okay to change and, pursue a different type of happiness which was what I was really yearning for. And again, like if I feel good, that reflects on my household, our children the way we operate, the way we do things, and seeing how I am today and how the house. Transcripts provided by Transcription Outsourcing, LLC. I can see all that hard work and effort.
It's, we can see that right now. And it's really, it's a beautiful thing. It really is because we worked, I worked so hard for such a long time to create co theory that it's really lovely to see the community response, the way the business is running and just the way it works with the household we have today. I love that because two things can be true at once. You don't have to choose between having a family or having a career.
We are expected to have it all in that, overarching the expectations that we put on ourselves or that the feels like community standards. You're definitely, we definitely feel like that. But. There's actually nobody saying you have to choose or you're not allowed to pursue one if you've already chosen to have the other. So I love that. Obviously you identified sort of a gap in the market or thought what the Officeworks wasn't quite cutting it when it came to luxury office supplies.
How did you pinpoint that or what drew you into, the stuff that you actually do stock with So I knew that I wanted to create a business. I just didn't know what it would be at the time. I actually have a, more of a sales background. I don't have a design background. A lot of people might be a little bit shocked with that, but I don't have a an educated design background. I love beautiful things.
I have an eye for detail and a lot of the things that I've learned along the way are very self taught. And. Initially, as I mentioned, I wanted to create a business and I wanted to create this lifestyle that would suit where we are today and beyond. But I also wanted to create a business that would, do well and would, and I wanted it to be in homeware because that is something that I really love. So I spent. Many hours researching what a reputable business idea could be.
And I remember I would do it in the mornings before the children would wake up. Sometimes I would do it during that time. And then I would do it again after 8 PM when they would go to bed. So it was a tiring process. But it was also very exciting because I could see I could see an opportunity here and what made me realize that Officeware within the homeware space could be a good idea, a good brand story, a good niche.
Is because I could see a lot of trends online, more so overseas, not really in Australia, even though we were in this lockdown and we were all working at the kitchen table or we were, working in our office. I saw a lot of really beautifully designed office spaces or spaces where people could work from home in a relaxed decluttered type of environment. And I would also see my husband who would be working at the dining room table, we had all 3 children here.
I would be obviously at home all day doing all the things that I would normally do and he would be working. He really couldn't concentrate. He couldn't work the way he wanted to work. And he couldn't go anywhere. So seeing that on a daily basis, as well as seeing these trends from overseas the mark and the markets carry it so well. So if you were to look at, for example. Pottery Barn in the U. S., that website, there are pages and pages of tabletop officeware.
Even in Europe, there's a lot of brands out there that do tabletop officeware and we didn't really do that in a high quality sense here in Australia. And I'll also look at hashtags on Instagram and I would see that People are using these hashtags. There's hundreds of thousands of hashtags relating to Office Makeover, Office Decal, and I started to really think about.
Whether or not I could tap into that niche and create a high quality, higher price point product that would also fit into the homeware space holistically, because I knew that it was a niche market. I knew that it would take a while to build a community. So that's where my mind was when I decided to focus on officeware and focus on Officeware in the homeware space within Australia. I love that.
I like to imagine that you've got a notebook full of things that landed on the scrap room floor that were just not quite good enough, but a bit of a gap in the market, but no. We all have those ideas and I'm so glad that this has come to fruition. Absolutely. And at that time, you are so right. Everyone, I remember I had a blog that was like about creating study spaces in existing rooms in your home because we all had to panic and pivot and do the thing.
And I also created a like just a, One off service that was around design your zoom backdrop. So I was just doing virtual design consults to be like, okay, so from my objective perspective, as I've dialed in, that needs to go, that's not the right scale, move that over there, like helping people to show up better now that they have to work from bed basically. That's obviously something you recognized.
Yeah, from the same stuff that you were talking about where you were just, everyone was actually, yeah. And I love that you can see that there wasn't really, cause there really isn't something at the level of your brand in Australia. There wasn't, there was just, if you wanted it to be nice, it just had to be something that you maybe found that wasn't from Kmart or Ikea. And then you took it into your office. It wasn't actually made for the office.
No. And as we, as our brand has evolved and I can talk about this in more detail, support, and we have a lot of stockists Australia wide and they're all independent stores and we're very grateful for each and every one of them. They are homeware stores. When we talk about officeware, we talk about Cotheery. We are really a phone where brand essentially, and, we've tapped into this niche. However, our products are so functional. We see them in all areas of the house.
It doesn't just have to be in the office. And 1 of the comments I've actually received is it's too beautiful just for the office, agree to use these pieces in other areas. The functionality is what I love so much about. Pro theory pieces. So how did you go about creating a product line and getting like the materials, the gorgeous materials that you use talk to me about that process.
Cause I imagine like importing or like identifying where and how to do it, what was in your mind and execute was a challenge, right? It was the most difficult process I have ever experienced. In business, and that is being able to understand your direction with manufacturing, who you want to go for sorry, who you would like to use where you would like to get it manufactured what does it cost?
There were quite a few communication barriers, and we also found that there were companies that we would speak to.
That would promise us everything, but they actually couldn't deliver to the standard that we would like and, speaking within the industry one of our stockists who specialize in stone actually mentioned to us that there is a. Hidden Australian tax that overseas people charge us because we have such a high standard for our quality of our products that they will really need to knuckle down on that audit processing making sure the quality is up to our standard and I'm not saying that no one else has
these standards, but we really, and I really made sure that the quality was up to our standards. I didn't want to be like everybody else. I really wanted to invest. Our time and our money into high price pointed. Products that would really.
With designers, with architects in stores, people get to touch and feel these products and we've been told that it's some of the most beautiful stone that they've ever seen before and to get those types of comments and those feedback it makes me realize that whole manufacturing process that we went through was absolutely worth it because we have found, Such with our manufacturers that we will forever be grateful to them and we'll always support them just the way they support us.
When it comes to manufacturing from the beginning, as I mentioned, there's a lot of communication barriers. We spoke to plenty of people. Plenty of companies we even tried to keep this here in Australia twice. I tried to do that over the period of eight months and it just wasn't feasible. We couldn't keep it here. An architect letter tray would be at a price point of 550 instead of the price point that it is today.
We accepted that, and we invested our time into finding the most appropriate manufacturer overseas. We went through an entire sampling process to check the quality of their stone how they source it. How they operate their lead times and also what they believe in and what they think is a quality product. And we've absolutely found it. I think that we've found a really good gem in our manufacturing process in our people. And I'm really excited about that.
It's such a, such an achievement for the brand to be able to do that. I am curious about stock levels on that first initial order. Obviously, you take a big risk in business to be like, we want this business to work. Let's get a shipment over and I'll do the marketing and sales and this sort of stuff. But. It's a nerve wracking idea and the weight of some of the products, taking into consideration logistics and postage and all that sort of stuff. What were the numbers like in that first initial?
Did you go in small? Did you go in large and what happened? So my husband, George, and I are the sole owners of co theory. We, and we would love to keep it that way. And I said, an amazing opportunity came up, but we really had to think about how we were going to budget and decide where to put the money when it comes to shipment, when it comes to buying in larger quantities, per color, per product, we had to be strategic with how we did that.
And we decided to go in with two colors and five products for stone. And we also had pinboards and we had some other little accessory pieces that are still on our website today. And. We decided to, we decided on a number and we backed it with our marketing plan for when we launched in October and we really had to take in the considered advice and considered like the considered plan that we had. But it was all a risk. Everything is a risk, especially stage of business.
And I'm not going to say it came down to luck because I believe in our products, they looked and they felt really good. We just, we took a chance and it has absolutely paid off. We started with 2 colors, for example, and we now have 8 in our range which really satisfies our customers because it really does speak to a variety of aesthetic. In the home or the workspace. I love that. And yes, like it's a dirty word in business because we all work so, so hard and you have to have an eye for it.
You have to back it. You have, you did the work with the manufacturers, you did the work to see what it would be like. And I think that's a really smart way to go to have started with just a couple of colorways and then move on in terms of expansion, because sometimes people are like thinking expanding things means more and more products and actually it doesn't have to.
No, it doesn't have to, but we were told very early on by one of our stockists who said you need to keep releasing product because, people want to see more. You need to be looking at doing that at least twice a year. That's always been at the back of my mind. I'm always, I. I'm very creative in that way.
I want to be able to please everybody and to be able to have beautiful products that are available to our community that already love our products or they see something that they really like and they're like, I would like this piece from Pro Theory. But we really do need to just be true to how we're trying to operate the business, which is to. Be creative and to keep up with the market and the trends. But we also need to ensure that we're being lean, very lean, especially in this climate.
Out there, it's not easy for homeware stores or just for anyone in general. So we're keeping an eye on that. We note that and we're trying to be very mindful about that situation. How did you come up with the name Cotheory for the business?
Rhiannon, I spent probably over 20 hours thinking about this name and when I actually gave up at one point, no one knows this story, but I spent, I engaged somebody after I spent all this All these hours searching and looking for a name that would be suitable and felt right. I engaged somebody to name my brand and that person is absolutely lovely. They did a great job. They gave, a full report of 10 names that they thought would be suitable based on everything that I had presented.
And when it was all said and done, I did not pick one of those names. And I ended up, it just came to me one day, co theory, and I would, I would put words together and I would separate them and I would do all these different activities in a Word document to try and visually capture what I wanted that name to be. And. We ended up with co theory, and I love that name. I love that name. So it was an expense for me to do that.
However, I, and I'm happy to talk about this more, but I absolutely believe in utilizing the service of. These beautiful creatives that we meet along the way that are specialized in their field that they know what they're doing. And I would love to invest my time and my money into their way of thinking and how they can help the business because I don't think that way. I'm not a. Graphic designer. I am not a branding expert.
So we've really used a lot of people along the way that have helped us with a variety of things. And I'm very grateful for that. And it's actually completed the foundation for co theory. I can't imagine a day where I ever have to rebrand this business because the foundation that we set from the beginning was just incredible. And I believed in it from day one, which is the most important thing.
So the kids are no longer three under three, they've grown up a little bit, but obviously there's so much going on in business. We have to be the Swiss army knives of business. And we do have to be our content creators. We have to be it, we have to be customer service. You have to know how to fix the printer. If it breaks, you have to know be on top of emails every day and be on top of absolutely everything.
What's your approach to social media when it comes to the pressures of Instagram specifically and content planning and just getting your product out there on a regular basis. That is such a good question because I have a beautiful team that helped me with social media and have helped me pretty much from day one. You've just mentioned all the hats and more that we have to wear throughout business and home life. However, I have been able to work with Polly from All Things Social.
She's really been able to help me get in front of the audience with the right message, with the right content and really take that away from me with other things that I need to do. I still have a lot of input. I still give direction in terms of tone of voice, but having her be able to. Take care of our social media presence has been very helpful to us. And we're very grateful. Like the dream, isn't it? Did you identify that early and think, okay, where are my strengths? Where do I want to be?
Because that content piece can really drag you down. It is, it can affect your mindset. And mental health, it's something that all the designers that I speak with over 200 in the last 18 months that I've worked with, I find struggle at different times with that just one individual piece. So did you just go, this is going off the table from the. The beginning. I, this might be a bit of a surprise to you, Brandon, but I'm a bit of a control freak.
I like to be involved in everything and anything that has to do with co theory. When I appointed her as our social media manager I wanted her to understand our foundation and how we operate and the messages that we would like to deliver to our community and. She does a great job with social media management creating graphics, being able to repurpose content, create content for us at times as well. However, we need to make sure I need to make sure that we have enough content in the bank.
For her to be able to use. So that's something else that I need to make sure is there. And I always bounce off Polly. What do you think about this creator? What do you think about her price guide? What do you think about their direction? Do you like where there'll be filming? Is there anything else that I need to be aware of? So very involved in those types of things. But there was a time at the very beginning of Our launch where I actually tried to do it myself and. It was not happening.
I could not do it. I was stressed. I wanted to be able to focus more attention on the business. Even to this day, Rhiannon, it will take me maybe 30 minutes to an hour to edit one reel because I'm so particular with the sound, with the frame, with the scene that I want to be able to put in there that creates that storyline in the reel. And that takes up so much of my time. So to be able to do that as well as managing the platforms LinkedIn, Pinterest, Instagram it's a lot to take on.
And it's probably, I would say it's been the best investment that I've made in the business on a, on a month by month basis. I can't imagine not having that social media management support. Is there other crew behind the scenes? Is it just yeah, how many other people are working? Is there other things that you're outsourcing or feel like getting support with on a day to day? Yeah, so Holly supports us. On a day by day basis with the posts that she creates and puts on social media.
However, I have some contacts that I've had from the very beginning who helped me to this day. Jacqueline O'Neill from Inika Agency helped create a tone of voice from the very beginning. Still, to this day, I, I'm on a, she's on a retainer and I go to her and I say, Jackie, how does this sound? It's less and less as the months have gone by because she's really helped me. understand and use the language that co theory is. We do outsource To the right people when we do need them.
But on a month by month basis, it's Polly. She's able to help us with everything and she loves working for co theory. So I'm very grateful for that. Everybody wants one. Now, everyone listening to this will be like I might have to, you better tell her to and they send all the incoming mail from the date of release to this, to the junk folder or something. So she doesn't get inundated with so Rill be this. Did you spend more time naming your brand or your babies? The brand name brand.
It was a full on process. And when you have so many other wheels in motion and you're talking to all these other people and manufacturing, and, you're getting your style, got your brand and style guide done and you tone of voice document completed and. All these things that come with creating the foundation that is co theory having to name the brand was, it was a difficult time. It was a difficult task, but I'm so glad we ended up with co theory. No, it's so good.
I just laugh because I do know that, You're naming humans and you're giving them their forever name for all of their life. You're like, yeah, that's pretty good. And that's fine. It's locked in. But with the brand, there's so much overthinking that goes into it. Absolutely. You project so much that may or may not come with it. You're trying to sit, you're googling it, put Google alerts on to see if other people have it, check it out.
In other industries it's actually quite a big part of that foundational piece. As you mentioned, we have a. Branding studio inside of my course, the framework, and it goes through so many things. It's don't get stuck here and procrastinate for six months, but do take it seriously because it is something that will make you gush about it. Like you have, and you need it to have longevity. You need to feel like that.
Two, five, 10, 15 years into your business and not be like, Oh, I just threw spaghetti at the wall and I can't change it. I absolutely agree. And something else for you. Naming our children is an emotional decision with business. I really do try to not be so emotional about the things that we purchase, the things that we put out there as a product offering the decisions that we make in our business, because that can really take over.
The emotion can really take over and I have these rules in place with myself where, I don't respond to something when I'm upset or I'm angry or I'm frustrated with a particular topic. I will wait a day because I want what I say to be considered and thoughtful. And I would like to be, I think everyone would like to be respected in the space that they're in. And I feel like that is probably the best way moving forward.
And it's helped me in my business now with decisions that we make and things that we do. It's great advice because it's definitely something that only takes you further in business when you can separate like yourself from your product and know that You can have a conversation about one and it's not actually reflective of you. So when we talk about the kids or whatever, then you probably did have a hand to play if there's a behavioral issue there, but when it's your product, that's not you.
That can just be a perception, a miscommunication. And and I think we do we work. We work so hard behind the scenes that it's easy for us to feel flustered and frustrated and emotional and upset when somebody has a constructive criticism or has a question that you don't feel is fair. And yeah, I love that. You talked about being more considered in your responses. Can you talk to me about the considerations that you made for the launch of the business? I know from.
The, I guess from my observations, it looked quite intentional. It looked like you were doing a lot of on the ground research, finding out who would be the best sort of brand ambassadors for what you were doing. And can you talk to me a bit about that process? Sure, so at launch, it was obviously a very exciting time. It had been this long journey. I still was at home with our children and I had this, these feelings and these thoughts that I had to now had a timeline.
We now had a timeline because the products had arrived. They looked amazing. We decided to create a a campaign shoot, which was. And we were able to create incredible, we utilized amazing creatives that helped us that still help us to this day and, we were able to create The, I guess it's like an ad, which is now our website banner, which you'll be able to see there. We still use that because I absolutely love that. It's part of the foundation of co theory.
We will change that one day, but I absolutely love it. And we were able to capture all the images. I was part of that campaign. It was a full day shoot. And that formed as part of our launch. In addition to that, we did. Look, we were able to budget some financials towards marketing, but it wasn't huge. We wanted to launch online with a presence with Instagram, with Pinterest and That worked well, the launch went well, our family, our friends all supported us, and I'm very grateful for that.
However, people might think that at launch, you receive hundreds of orders. It just doesn't work that way. And I guess the marketing budget that we had at the time really was reflective of the orders that we received, which was not a lot. It wasn't, mind blowing. And it actually was like that for, I would say two to three months and. Again, I was still at home, so I wasn't working full time. I wasn't working eight hours a day.
And it came a time where I thought to myself, this is online and, we're not getting all of these orders every single day. How are we able to make money, move this product and have more brand awareness other than just on Instagram? My husband and I, we were having dinner with our cousin, Layla, and she has a huge background in homeware in New Zealand. And she mentioned to us, why don't you go to a trade fair, wholesale trade fair? So we spoke about that and we looked into it.
We then decided that would be another investment that we would make. So we're ready. As you can, as you are aware, it's a lot of money to be able to get these products over here. But we decided 3 months later to do another investment where we would exhibit at the AGHA gift fair. That was a lot of fun. We learned a lot from that gift fair. And in fact, we were able to pivot and solely decide that wholesale would be our main funnel. We have more than 35 stop us, Australia wide.
So the information that we were able to receive from that four day event from the people that were around us, that had a lot of experience in the industry, we just were sponges. We listened and we learned, and then we came home and we applied everything we could into the business and we really changed the direction from there. I love that getting in front of the exact right people and then actually listening to the feedback that applies across all businesses.
And I think far too many people just, I don't want to be pushy or I don't want to ask questions or I don't want to get in there, especially with the type of product that you have and the type of thing. Better to tell you the actual truth about where you should be. Then ask the designers, ask the architects, ask the people, the homeowners that are buying it. What's the price point say to you? Okay, great. Who can afford this?
And that's a great way to identify who you're for and what you do and where you should be. Yes, absolutely. And I haven't spoken about this too much, but back when we were back when I was, planning and deep into the co theory foundation. I would lean on everybody. I would call random businesses to give me advice. I would send emails. I would look at YouTube videos. I would go on Instagram. And that's what I mean when I say I was self taught, but I didn't stop until I knew the answer.
And. There was a situation with our business just a couple of months ago where we were presented with an opportunity. It took a while to decide that perhaps that wasn't the best opportunity for us. And George said to me, why don't you call Anna Marie from Ogilvie's Designs in WA, who you met at the trade fair a couple of years ago. And why don't you get her advice on what she thinks, because you've already approached.
The accountant, you've approached our bookkeeper, you've approached the lawyer and you've approached me, but why don't you get somebody else to mentor you in this space? After 2 years I looked her up and I introduced my reintroduce myself and I, and she said, oh yeah, I know you, I remember you, you're with your husband, George, and you were, just starting out and I said, yes, and I learned so much from you at the time. And I'd like to ask you this question. I asked the question.
She was able to give me such a good response and really, I knew the answer. She was just validating that for me. And sometimes you need to bounce off people to get your answer, to be okay with that answer. And to be able to do that and lean on people in the industry or the space. What's the worst that's going to happen? It's never happened before. People will always be willing to help you. To what capacity is up to them and what they're dealing with at the time.
However, I'm just grateful for everyone that has, had their two cents and been able to help us along the way. Even when it comes to freight, we have a very good friend in, in, who is our freight partner and he helps us with international and domestic freight. He has 25 years experience and. We now use him for absolutely everything. And again, that's just by speaking to people. He wasn't, he is a close friend, but he's a friend of a friend. So it's, who do you know?
What do you know in his background? Do you know anyone in this space? And we would literally call that person and we would say, Hey, this is what we're doing. Can you be involved in some way? So we weren't afraid to ask the question. We weren't afraid to utilize the people that were around us and what their strengths were. And then they could use us for our strengths as well. I love that one too. I think we had a similar phone call to that in December, 2022.
I remember we had a good half an hour chat. You're just starting out asking some questions around my business, my clients, what do your clients like to see getting that Intel, which is so important. I remember that. Yeah. And it was a lovely chat and I loved it.
And I also really liked that a lot of the time people are not quite as tenacious and they're not quite as I want to say like self starter or taking the initiative, but people are afraid to reach out and just say, can I have 10 minutes of your time? I have a little pickle. I know you're really well placed to answer me or to guide me or to help me. It won't take a lot. Here's what I can do. You always are open to returning the favor and here you are on my podcast.
Thank you to be like, I need a favor. Come on over. Let's have a chat. But to hear more of your business approach is really important because there are a lot of people out there sitting, waiting for business to happen to them because they are in small business. But it isn't like that. No, it's not like that. And over time, when I say that we have, spoken to a lot of people, it's been really nice and friendly.
I have really enjoyed the conversations that I've had with people in this space and the friends that I've made. I have worked with Sam Honnes from Salvi Collective quite a few times. Now, the way I was introduced to her was through Instagram. She won our Christmas giveaway that we had done at the time, and we connected, we met up, and we just had this friendship that has blossomed over time, and I'm so grateful for her.
But I always bounce things off her, she bounces things off me, and just to be able to do that in this space is really comforting, because it's not easy out there, you need advice, and You want to be able to lean on people who perhaps have a different perspective to others that you may have approached. And that is really helped me along the way I feel like giving back in this space. I was, I actually attended.
One of Sam's social events, she's having another one in July, but I attended the last one and I was a guest speaker and I was able to tell my story in a short form way. And we had a beautiful lunch together and I met some beautiful women in the industry who all had positive things to say about co theory. And I had positive things to say about their business and we connected. And at the end of my at the end of my speech, I actually.
Put it to everybody in the room that if anyone wanted to talk to me in a casual manner, away from this event, I would be more than happy to give them my time and to be able to talk about anything that they would want to when it comes to business, whether it's wholesaling, whether it's, starting out, whether it's pivoting into something else that, they might think is better suited for their business. And. Two businesses came to me and I was able to have this beautiful chat with them.
And they have said that it was a really positive thing for them and they've been able to implement new things in their business because of that. And I absolutely love to hear that because as much as people have helped us, I would like to help other people too. And those relationships are so important. Not everyone has a George at home. A lot of people work on their own, like those small businesses.
It's we don't have anyone to talk to unless you name your house plant, George, you just sometimes don't have one and you can't bounce things off anyone. So being able to pick up the phone and just have a 10 minute conversation and share an idea is really great. We talked about sharing business advice. What is the best business advice you've ever received? The best business advice. I have ever received, look, I don't, George is the man of the hour.
He has really taught me on the fundamentals of business and how we really need to operate in a holistic type of way. I'm very creative. I get very excited. It does come to that emotional side where you're like, Oh my gosh, we're going to photoshoot next week. Oh my God, do I need to buy a new outfit? What else do we need? Do we need to buy new props? Let's just get them anyway.
I'm very excited about that type of hat that I wear and it's important to be able to be reined in and to be able to say does that make sense? Not just in a financial way, but does it make, is the return on investment there for the brand awareness that we're getting all for all the product that we're going to be launching? And I think that when he uses that word lean, I always have a little bit of a laugh because I know that we need to be lean, but just let me do my thing, George.
Let me do my thing is what I say in my mind. But I absolutely listen to that advice because. We're almost two years old. We do need to be able to have this stock to support our stockists and to have an online presence with our business. And every dollar does count and hopefully one day we can not be as lean, but right now in our business and with this climate, that is exactly what we need to be. And I wholeheartedly respect that. And I think about that.
All the time with every business decision that we make, I think about that and hopefully that pays off in the long run. I love that. And I would love to get a DM or text message when George finally is just do it, just buy it. Yes. Hopefully one day we'll get to that stage, but no, we have a laugh here and there about my excitement and my purchases and he does not agree on some of them. But he is my biggest fan. He will actually go into stores and he will speak to stockists.
Catherine Frank, who is a beautiful mom and daughter duo in Peran. He is the one that walked into that store when we had all three children and we were just coming back from lunch and they were yelling and screaming. And he decided that was the time to make an introduction on a set. So we. Bounce off each other. I love being able to have this advice and these real raw conversations with him, but also other people in the space that love to give advice.
I, on a regular basis, speak to Michelle Langford from the Cocoa Public commercial team, and she has given me such an amazing feedback about my product or my business or, my website or my images or whatever it might be. I take all that in because that is not a negative. That's a positive, I can feel that she wants us to win. So too with other people in this space and. That word win. I actually want everyone to win.
I think it's such a beautiful spot to be able to do something that you love and that you actually enjoy and you wanna go to work and the day, oh my God, that day just went so quickly. That's what you wanna be able to say. And I say that every day now. It's amazing. Good. Is there anything you underestimated about starting a business? I can't say that I did read and because I actually didn't know what I was getting myself into. I truly had to research every topic.
Everything that I would do with my business, I'll search how to start a business. What is the business checklist? What do I need to do next? So every single thing that I did and when I say that I had people around me and then I would ask questions, that would be questions about specific things, going through the process of making sure you've ticked off all those boxes. That was really hard. And we, we took it day by day and.
Topic by topic, but yeah, I couldn't say no. I feel like everything that we did and how it all transpired was the way it was supposed to be knowing the environmental factors that we were in, which was three children under three in a house. You're trying to build a business. You're also trying to be the best mom you could be. The most fun mom you could be take them out, go to the park, do all these things that you need to do and also create this business. So everything.
Everything that is transpired, I feel like it was the way it was supposed to be. I wouldn't change it. Yes, and I wouldn't want to see the brochure beforehand or I probably wouldn't get on board. It's nice to learn it in an organic way. And when I was writing the framework and obviously putting together the checklist and the steps, the foundations of business, that obviously would not be a good fit for you because it does not address everything.
Anything that you do as a product based business, but it was really eye opening to me to think, oh yes, I remember, like you say, being on Pinterest, going down a rabbit hole, going onto Google. Questioning, is there an alternative? Is there a free version? Is there a cheaper way? Has somebody discovered something on Reddit? Have two people been having a forum or a conversation that has meant that the outcome would be better suited for me? Like some of that stuff, it's great learning.
Fun to do, but some of the spending nine hours and coming out with a result that's just like in the framework is like step three. To me, it makes me so happy that exists for the next gen of people starting businesses and able to go, Oh, thanks for the link or thanks for the template. And I don't have to actually see if there's like the broad spectrum of all the different ways I could do it and make a decision. I can just follow the leader, which is nice. That's great.
I think that's, I think that's great. so your Code Theory products were featured in the Japandi inspired house by Steph and Jian in Hamptons and their styling is beautiful, really nice and minimalist, really well suited. How did that opportunity all come about and what was the sort of flow and effects from that? Steph and Jian were absolutely amazing to deal with and work with. They're just really nice people. I was able to have an introduction through.
Our stock is because home Fifi and Christine, who are beautiful people and I'm forever grateful for them and everything that they've been able to do for us. They were part of the block. They had, I believe, block box where the contestants would go in and. They would spend a certain amount of money per week. Christine had mentioned to me, so this is at the very beginning of our relationship. I had been down there. I made my introduction to them.
I showed them our pieces and they absolutely loved it. I left. We, we were playing. I was following up and we'll play a bit of phone tag and I was able to get a hold of her one day. And she said, I'm so sorry, but I didn't want to tell you, but we're actually filming the block here and they're coming in and out. They're coming at all different times. I haven't been able to focus on, your particular products right now, but why don't you bring them down? And we're expecting some contestants today.
It's office week come down and. Put them in the store. So I dropped everything and I went down there and as I was parking, I could see a car from the block and I raced into the store and I went all the way back to Christine, she was at the back of the store. And I said to Christine, there's a contestant here. Can I pitch my pinboards?
Because I knew that the pinboards were Christine, they did stock the pin boards for a period of time, and I believe they still do now, but it's not, it hasn't really been picked up by a lot of stockers, which is fair enough. They're heavy. They're not particularly homeware. They're a considered niche piece. So I asked if I could pitch that and she said, absolutely. So I had an introduction to Steph. She's absolutely lovely. She has a beautiful vision. And she has an Arctic background as well.
So I was able to explain what, how I thought that these products would be incorporated in the study and. We had a 5 minute discussion and she was like, yep, I love it. Please take this out of the store. I want this and we'll talk and we'll talk next week and you can come down and drop them all off. So that is how it transpired. And then it all flowed from there. So I'm very grateful to Steph and Jian. Such a the universe providing kind of moment, isn't it?
Because I feel like there are other contestants there that wouldn't have had the eye that Steph does and wouldn't have seen the potential and wouldn't have known exactly. It will turn out, I can use it as a double layer of design because I can. Put a material board on there because I have the skill to do that as an architect, like I can pull it together. Absolutely, it just made sense for them and just their style. It was beautiful. I spotted pieces throughout the home too.
It wasn't just the office that they used to some of the pieces. They did a great job. And yeah, it was just, it's a beautiful home. We've walked through it. It's a beautiful home. We did an interview with Stefan Gian. And I was able to, Photographed the house, and it was just a beautiful time to be able to do that. And it was an exciting time because co theory was not 1 years old at that time. So it happened very early into our journey.
And that also helped with just the brand awareness and the confidence stockers would have when they would make an order with us, because when you make an order with us, it's not cheap. You need to be able to invest in these pieces that their customers and their clients will then see as an investment piece. As a sturdy architect letter tray weighs anywhere between 5. 5 kilos to six kilos or made from a solid stone slab. So it's.
They're beautiful pieces and they're, they generally, I find that when you see them in store, you can't look away. People do a double take. I've seen it happen in Nikos before where they said, Oh, I can't move past this piece. I need to be able to see how I can style it, what I can use it with it in my home and can I purchase it today? So it's just been a lovely journey so far. Really nice to have that validation because you've always believed in it.
You've seen it, you know what it's like, but to have others experience it through the block and then to back you. So like when you talk about that confidence piece, it's so true because you're seeing that other people see that this is a luxury high end. This is not supposed to be on everybody's coffee table. And it, there's a, Place for it. And it swings us back around to being intentional, knowing what you want and what you want to do. Absolutely.
We, Rhiannon, we actually find that when we look at our website conversion and, the online presence that we have people that come to us and they'll purchase on the day. So we'll look and we'll see that, they came to our website, they've looked at everything that we have and they'll purchase on that day. But a majority of people who purchase from us on our online website, they have come to our website 6 to 7 times within the last 7 days, and then they make their considered decision.
And when I think about how I purchase, artwork or whatever it might be, a high priced item, I will think about it for days. I will make sure that is the piece that I want. And if I like something, I'm generally, I'm going to buy it. And if it makes sense, I'm going to buy it. And we find that. We find that happens with us. For example, the Palazzo trade large in Viola, Calcutta.
That's something that you watching me and my cart right now, or we launched that in February and it's being the most popular stone color and the most premium we've ever launched, and it is sold out and the medium has sold out and. It just goes to show that if somebody likes something and they can visualize it in their home they will buy it, they will buy it. It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, but they will buy it.
And it is really nice, as you say, in this climate to have that kind of confidence because you're like, things won't always be like this. Business is a long game. There's swings and roundabouts and there'll be years where things. Feel easier. They just do. And there's years where things feel like you are wading through the mud and it may not get better and it will.
But I do love that, that you can keep your kind of mind on the idea that like the right client will always find a way to make that happen for them. Cause it's a dream piece. It's a piece that you really want to own. Yes. Are there any upcoming projects or collaborations with Cotheory that you can tell us about? I can tell you that we will be on the block again this year, which is very exciting in more of a larger capacity.
So that's airing from August and you'll see a lot of social media content about that. We also have some exciting news where we're just about to enter Singapore with a beautiful stockist. And that's huge for us. I actually looked back at my very first article that I released. I believe it was on October the 22nd, 2022. And one of my comments was that I can't wait to take this abroad. And. Here we are almost 2 years in and we're doing that. And that's very exciting for us.
We are always working on new products and new ideas. This is where Brianne and I say, Oh, George, look what I've thought about. I want to be able to talk to you about this and present this to you. And he says we're late. We need to wait. We need to be able to just see how the stock goes and we need to be able to just take week by week. And I say, okay, no problem. But I have all these ideas.
And I also have that, feeling in the back of my mind where we always need to be up to date with the trends, with colors, with tones, textures, aesthetic, all of those things need to be considered when, the months go by. I think that's really important to talk about because, we want to make our mark here. We would like people to not only know who we are, but know us to provide quality product that is deserving of the price point that it is.
I'm curious about the weight of everything and the shipping to Singapore. Are you going direct from manufacturer to stock list or are you taking it from your stock and sending it to Singapore? That's probably not things I need to know, but I'm just a curious person that's tell me about that. That seems like a lot. It's a great question. This is our first order.
So we're taking precautions and we are just doing it from, we are just doing it like a normal order where we get it from our warehouse here in Melbourne. However, hopefully this relationship continues for years to come. And if that's the case, I would love to be able to see there's another way and more feasible way to get this door to our Singapore stockers, potentially from, directly from our manufacturer. So that is on my mind that is in the works.
However, this 1st order will be coming directly from us. And I'm so excited where I'm right now trying to a point or trying to find some Singaporean content creators? So I'm currently in the process of searching for the right. People to represent our brand over there and to just spread the word to their community that these beautiful pieces from Australia are now exclusively in Singapore. We do international shipping on request.
However, it's a lot of money to be able to post these products overseas. So to be able to, tell as many people as possible that we're landing in Singapore would be amazing. And that's a task that I'm doing right now. Like literally right now, this podcast goes out worldwide and I see where the audience is and where people listen from.
So if you are in Singapore and you want to reach out, you're an influencer or you No, someone it always shocks me when I see the podcast locations of where people listen and are you just, obviously you're, I'm sure most of your listeners are in Australia, but are you, where else do you find that people are listening? The biggest areas USA, Canada Dubai, but it's everything there's Bulgaria, Romania, like it takes it all down to the exact places.
And some of them, I have a background in travel 15 years. I worked in travel and have traveled the world. And there's still some places that people listen from that. I'm like, I have to get the Atlas out. I'm not quite sure where that is, or I don't know that one. It's so funny that you say America and Canada, because when I think of my research phase, I think that they're ahead of the game. They have some really beautiful products, really beautiful homeware pieces.
I seek a lot of inspiration overseas. And if I was to, if I was to pinpoint a country who does really well in homeware officeware having considered pieces for your space, I would say it would be America and then Europe. I definitely think that holds some influence from my previous focus in the business where I had us clients and Australian clients. Last question for me, tell me what's something you wish more designers knew about co theory.
I look, we work with a lot of designers and we work, we have a great trade program where we're able to support designers, architects, photographers, interior stylists and designers. The most beautiful and positive feedback that we get when they receive our products is they say, wow, we didn't realize how beautiful this is and how what the quality is like being in those spaces. I'm sure that they're, touching, feeling a variety of different qualities of stone and that feedback solidifies.
What I was able to do at the beginning, which was really source. The most premium stone. I think we have beautiful stone. It's very sturdy. It's solid and the colors are just incredible. So I wish that everyone could, come to a showroom, come to my showroom one day when I do that's in the works. That's another discussion with George that I need to have with him.
I wish that they could see it in person, especially before they purchase, because when you're able to hold this piece, you can really visualize generally where you would like to put it or how it fits into what you're doing and what project you have on. And yeah I would say that would be the biggest thing that I would want to be able to show them what we're about and what quality we have. Yeah, I would agree. I think you're always you suspect it's like that.
You think, oh yeah, we're at that price point and the way that it looks like it must be quite nice. I think that's quite nice, but it's quite a different experience suspecting that and opening the box and actually lifting it, feeling the weight of it, feeling the smoothness of it, seeing The tones and the hues of the marble. It is quite different. What did you think? Because I know that you made a beautiful purchase online. Thank you so much for doing that, Rhiannon, for your friend.
I, we both loved it. She loved it as a gift. It makes an excellent gift. But I, yeah, I always New, I think the thing that surprised me was things like proportion and scale and things you can't get visually digitally on the website. Like you get an idea because you do see all of that photo shoot imagery and stuff. So you're like, okay, there's someone's hand and there's a thing, but how big is their hand? How big is the tray? I really liked the experience of kind of going, Oh, okay.
Yep. If this is the medium, then I can picture what the small would be and how the large would be. But. I'd be the first in line to come and see a showroom and come and get in there and touch all of the things. Okay. I think I need to get some people to help me convince George one day within the next 12 months to get that happening. I'll just build one in your backyard. Perfect. Thank you so much for joining me today. I've loved hearing more about your business.
It's something a little bit different. It's not service based, it's got some other sort of nuances and focuses, but I think the learnings, like all business learnings can be applied across the board. So thank you. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate everything. Okay. I'll chat to you soon. Bye for now. Bye bye. That wraps up another episode of Designing Success from Study to Studio. Thanks for lending me your ears. Remember, progress over perfection is the key.
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