Anatoliy [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode encourages, like, you having to overcome fear without actually knowing what it's going on.
Phillip [00:00:05]:
I think the knowledge can help. All I'm saying is, like, I think going to the actual experiences, that's where you're really building, like, that skill, and that's where you'll need less courage. You can do all you need to do to mimic going up to a girl, but then when you actually go up to her, it's just a totally different experience.
Eldar [00:00:22]:
I'm waving my hand like, yo, I'm done. Don't come in here kind of thing. You know what I mean? Mike already sees that I'm drowning. He jumps in. Let's examine that. He jumps in. I'm fucking. I'm going under.
Eldar [00:00:33]:
I'm drinking mad water, bro. I'm sinking. I'm thinking, I'm done. I'm dead.
Mike [00:00:37]:
Dennis would have went in 100%. He would never have made it out. Yeah, he wouldn't have made it. He's mad dumb, and he's a terrible swimmer.
Eldar [00:00:56]:
All right, guys. Mike.
Mike [00:00:57]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:00:57]:
You said you wanted to talk about courage. Courage without being, what is it?
Mike [00:01:02]:
Cowardly dog.
Eldar [00:01:03]:
The courage. The cowardly dog.
Mike [00:01:04]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:01:05]:
All right, cool.
Mike [00:01:05]:
That's a shout out.
Eldar [00:01:07]:
Remind me why we wanted to talk about courage.
Mike [00:01:10]:
It was something about ending the way that the last pod ended. We're talking about the thing that I discovered.
Mike [00:01:17]:
Right.
Mike [00:01:17]:
And then you said something about. Yeah, I think the way the last podcast ended, you said, the next step is being courageous in the face of. In a relationship when you have to stand behind your own truth. I remember that. That was one part of it.
Mike [00:01:34]:
Yeah. Standing with the truth.
Eldar [00:01:37]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:01:37]:
When you're in a relationship.
Eldar [00:01:39]:
Yeah, fine. And I probably said we need courage, some level of courage in order to be able to do that.
Mike [00:01:45]:
Right, right.
Eldar [00:01:45]:
But as I was going throughout this week, thinking about the topic courage, you know, what was coming to me more and more? It was like, do what we actually need courage if we embody the truth. That was my question.
Mike [00:01:59]:
Right.
Mike [00:01:59]:
But what does that mean, to embody the truth?
Eldar [00:02:01]:
Okay, so check this out, right? One simple example, for example, is.
Phillip [00:02:06]:
Most.
Eldar [00:02:07]:
People are afraid of bees, right? Can we just say that, like, oh, bees sting.
Anatoliy [00:02:12]:
Yeah, it sounds like you're saying that, like, I mean, at least for me, when I'm thinking about it, courage can only be summoned if there's fear.
Mike [00:02:22]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:02:23]:
So if you have the truth, then you wouldn't have fear to begin with, so you wouldn't need to summon courage.
Eldar [00:02:28]:
Correct.
Anatoliy [00:02:29]:
But you can't be courageous when there's no fear.
Eldar [00:02:31]:
So my example is, right, you're afraid of bees, right? And I'm not. For example, let's just say, right? And I have my reasons as to why I'm not afraid of bees, because number one, I study them. Number two, I'm a beekeeper and I understand them, right? So when Philip was, you know, elder, is this bee going to do something to know if he's eating lunch or whatever? I'm like, no, you're not attacking it. If you're not bothering it, it doesn't want to sting you for no reason, unless, of course, it's threatened, right? So for someone who's afraid and doesn't know these things, right, maybe my actions of, like, picking up a bee from somewhere or picking up a swarm of bees, for example, might be this courageous act, right? Like, oh, look at this guy. He's so courageous, he can go into the beast warm and be okay and not be afraid. But the truth of the matter is I'm not afraid because I am more pain tolerant to bee things or something. I don't want to get stung either because it hurts, that's for sure. But I know certain things about bees, right? In that case, I know that they're just not going to attack me for no reason.
Eldar [00:03:35]:
And when they're swarming, they're actually not even thinking about attacking humans at all. What they're trying to do is just trying to find a new home, right? They have a very specific thing. But to a naked eye who doesn't know bees, they're going to be like, holy shit, this looks crazy.
Mike [00:03:49]:
And this is very scary. So to one person, it's maybe courageous.
Eldar [00:03:55]:
To another person, it's just kind of like, no, this is common sense because I know the topic at hand.
Mike [00:04:00]:
Right? Yeah.
Eldar [00:04:02]:
Running into a burning building.
Mike [00:04:04]:
Right.
Eldar [00:04:04]:
For firefighters, for a lot of people, like, yo, that's courageous. But the firefighters, like Joe, for example, he studies fire and how fires travel through the building, how air affects fires and everything else, right?
Mike [00:04:19]:
So things like that. Okay, so that's what I kept playing in my head.
Eldar [00:04:25]:
Where. When do we find some people that are.
Mike [00:04:29]:
Do you think that all cases where courage is needed is all because of a fear?
Eldar [00:04:35]:
That's what Tony just said.
Mike [00:04:36]:
Yeah. Do you think that's what.
Anatoliy [00:04:37]:
Well, yeah, I don't think that you can use the word courage in any scenario where there's no danger or fear involved.
Mike [00:04:45]:
But is always the fear rooted in lack of knowledge or.
Mike [00:04:48]:
No.
Anatoliy [00:04:49]:
Well, I mean, probably, like, if you're.
Mike [00:04:50]:
Running into a thing.
Mike [00:04:53]:
Right.
Mike [00:04:54]:
To save somebody from a fire. You obviously know that. You know what you know, but you'd still a chance of dying here is that separate courage is like, I'm willing to sacrifice my life to save the other person because I know. But obviously, every time you go in that fire, you don't know for 100% that you're.
Anatoliy [00:05:09]:
Yeah, but then there's a chance of you dying and you summon courage. You're still a little bit afraid of dying.
Mike [00:05:17]:
Is it separated somehow or.
Anatoliy [00:05:19]:
No, no, I don't think it's separated. I just think that for there to be courage, there needs to be fear.
Mike [00:05:28]:
But let's say the fear of not knowing about bees, you can go and educate yourself, and you can be, okay, I'm educated now. I don't have to be scared of bees.
Mike [00:05:36]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:05:36]:
So then you're no longer courageous anymore.
Mike [00:05:38]:
You're no longer courageous. What about in the fire example?
Anatoliy [00:05:41]:
Well, same thing on the fire example. You could still be educated and know what you need to do. But if you still, in the back of your head, there is a chance of death or severe injury. There is still a small fear involved.
Mike [00:05:53]:
In that for you to then be courageous.
Andrey [00:05:58]:
So I think it's important to define courage.
Eldar [00:06:01]:
Help us here.
Mike [00:06:02]:
Yeah.
Andrey [00:06:03]:
So based on this conversation, so would you say it's noticing a fear and yet overcoming it? Overcoming fear in some way would be courageous? That would be a pretty short definition.
Anatoliy [00:06:15]:
But, yeah, I would say probably overcoming fear without education.
Andrey [00:06:19]:
Without education.
Eldar [00:06:20]:
Without education, yeah.
Anatoliy [00:06:21]:
It's like if you're standing on a cliff and there's a big drop into a pool of water, you're afraid that you might, I don't know, get hurt or different things like that, and you.
Mike [00:06:35]:
Just say, fuck it, I'm just going to do it.
Anatoliy [00:06:37]:
What's that? That's kind of like you're overcoming fear without education. But maybe, for example, if you were, like, a professional, I don't know, diver or. I'm not sure what the people are called that jump off those boards into a small pool from crazy high distances. They might know, okay, the water is deep enough. If you jump with your legs together, there's no fear here. This is completely normal and fine.
Mike [00:07:04]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:07:05]:
Because they have that education and their experience in it, they're not going to be fearful. Therefore, there is no courage involved there.
Mike [00:07:12]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:07:13]:
Because that person is educated. He's a professional at this thing.
Mike [00:07:17]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:07:17]:
But if you're just like that person, it's like, fuck it, I'm just going to do it, I guess.
Mike [00:07:21]:
Wait, courage is like you having to.
Anatoliy [00:07:24]:
Overcome fear without actually knowing what's going on.
Andrey [00:07:30]:
So without uncertainty, you think there's no such thing as courage.
Anatoliy [00:07:35]:
Yeah, probably.
Andrey [00:07:36]:
Interesting. I didn't have that framework.
Eldar [00:07:39]:
Well, help us with your framework, because we're just unpackaging this thing ourselves.
Anatoliy [00:07:44]:
I thought courage is cool.
Eldar [00:07:45]:
It sounds like, for example, let's do this.
Andrey [00:07:48]:
Let's do this, like, let's say approach anxiety.
Mike [00:07:52]:
Right?
Andrey [00:07:52]:
Someone wants to go to a room, approach a girl, whatever.
Mike [00:07:55]:
You can have one guy that's very.
Andrey [00:07:58]:
Let'S just take it both sides. Someone that's very inexperienced or some guy that's an expert at it, having basically all the information you can have. You can never have all the information. But this guy has no information. This guy has years and years of practice iteration information. But I would argue both of them, you can still define it and say, well, this person had courage, and this person had courage.
Mike [00:08:22]:
But what you're saying is, let's say this person is an expert.
Andrey [00:08:26]:
He doesn't need any courage to do.
Mike [00:08:28]:
Yeah, I don't think there's any.
Anatoliy [00:08:29]:
He's not doing anything. So it's not courageous because if he's approached a lot of girls, he's very experienced in it. It's probably very difficult for that expert to be surprised, caught off guard, or encounter a scenario that he hasn't encountered or doesn't have, like a. But if you rebuttal to.
Andrey [00:08:46]:
If you listen to interviews with those people, they say they still have the anxiety, they just go ahead and do it.
Mike [00:08:53]:
I wonder if people have the physiologic.
Andrey [00:08:55]:
Heart rate, even the people that are humble enough and say that supposedly are really good at it however you want. But even the people that had a lot of experience, they still say that they have a physiologic reaction.
Mike [00:09:08]:
They still have a, you would even.
Andrey [00:09:10]:
Say fear because you can always up the ante. Maybe you go into speak to more people. The woman's hotter. So even at the maximum level of expertise, if you interview those people, they.
Mike [00:09:20]:
Say, oh, yeah, I still feel something.
Andrey [00:09:22]:
But they've learned cues, they've learned things to do. They don't think about it. They learn tricks. But I would argue.
Eldar [00:09:28]:
But are they tapping into courage?
Andrey [00:09:31]:
I think you can argue that both of those people are tapping into courage.
Mike [00:09:35]:
Just some person, maybe more than other, right?
Mike [00:09:37]:
More than other.
Andrey [00:09:37]:
Yeah, it's a matter of degree, I think.
Eldar [00:09:39]:
Yeah, I'm not sure because I'm leaning more towards, I want to bring in.
Mike [00:09:43]:
Another thing into this confidence. Right.
Eldar [00:09:47]:
I want to bring that into it. The first person who's an expert at this, I almost feel like he's going to rely on not maybe initial step, maybe somewhere rooted inside where it's like a little bit of courage.
Mike [00:09:58]:
But after that, I think he leans towards confidence.
Andrey [00:10:01]:
How would you define confidence?
Mike [00:10:04]:
Okay. Confidence is almost remembering that your knowledge meets a physical outcome and you're sure of the result.
Andrey [00:10:16]:
I would have a similar definition.
Eldar [00:10:18]:
Exactly.
Andrey [00:10:19]:
Confidence is having a level of predictability that your actions have a chance of resulting in your desired outcome.
Eldar [00:10:28]:
Correct?
Mike [00:10:28]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:10:28]:
I would say it's like an emotional difference.
Mike [00:10:31]:
Yeah.
Andrey [00:10:31]:
So that's a confidence up until it's.
Eldar [00:10:33]:
Married with reality, and then you solidify. They're like, okay, I know this is going to happen.
Andrey [00:10:38]:
Has a reasonable chance of having some kind of outcome based on prior experience or whatever.
Eldar [00:10:42]:
Correct. Where courage, I think, is the initial kick in the ass. Almost like, okay, cool, I'm going to make that step, but I'm not really sure what the fuck is going to happen.
Mike [00:10:52]:
Right.
Andrey [00:10:52]:
So there's that fear.
Eldar [00:10:53]:
Yeah. The fear still travels with you and you're still not sure whether or not you're going to face.
Mike [00:10:59]:
Is courage maybe like a premature action.
Mike [00:11:03]:
Required when there's a premature action?
Anatoliy [00:11:06]:
No, it's required when there's not enough education.
Mike [00:11:09]:
Well, which is premature. That's what I'm saying.
Mike [00:11:13]:
If you want to do something, it's.
Mike [00:11:15]:
To a degree blind.
Eldar [00:11:17]:
It's to a degree blind.
Mike [00:11:18]:
Yeah, I know what he's saying.
Andrey [00:11:20]:
And I think, yeah, it makes sense because some things, you don't have all the information, like the guy that's, let's say, walking a tightrope across the two buildings, that they're professionals, they do it all the time, maybe without anything. I would still argue they have courage even though they're excellence, because they don't have. They're calculating wind resistance. They're calculating, okay, the buoyancy of this thing, the perfect conditions, but they're making a probabilistic assessment.
Mike [00:11:51]:
But I would argue one person who's.
Andrey [00:11:55]:
Bad at that and one person as good as that still have courage, even though.
Anatoliy [00:11:58]:
Yeah, but I don't think that you could do that in that moment with.
Mike [00:12:02]:
I mean, I think the fear is small. I don't think the fear ever disappears. We can ask. Know if you want. We can ask Joe because he had that experience of going into fires. Did it ever feel like, okay, I'm not scared at all. Like, I'm completely focused and confident and concentrated.
Eldar [00:12:16]:
You know what? I think that, at least for Joe, maybe experienced firefighters. I think you'll quickly find out that.
Mike [00:12:22]:
It'S no longer fear, but know when.
Eldar [00:12:27]:
It comes to that type of job and that type of, like, there's no time to look like, oh, how deep is that?
Mike [00:12:36]:
No, you got to go.
Eldar [00:12:37]:
And to rely on some kind of thinking pattern or whatever, it's not going to get you anywhere. They're just on go because it's so time sensitive that they have to go off of instincts.
Mike [00:12:48]:
Right.
Eldar [00:12:49]:
Which been practiced and kind of ingrained in them already.
Andrey [00:12:52]:
So courage is more back of the brain and ancient. Ancient because you know how the hypothalamus, so the brain stem developed, and then you have the brain stem, and then you have the autonomic systems, and then you have a lot of the emotional sides, which is the primitive brain around it. And then you have the forebrain, which is more logical, concrete, critical thinking, which.
Mike [00:13:19]:
Developed much later in evolution. So based on that, the courage would be the subconscious automaticity aspect, whereas the confidence would be more problem solving.
Andrey [00:13:35]:
Like these outcomes where you've done this before and you're critical thinking the possible things. So the logical, precise new part of the brain would be the confidence, but the courage would be the instinctual, like.
Mike [00:13:50]:
You said, running in the building.
Andrey [00:13:53]:
Would you agree with that subconscious instinct?
Mike [00:13:57]:
I think that's confidence.
Eldar [00:13:58]:
Exactly.
Andrey [00:13:59]:
That's what I mean. Like, the more further back, the more primitive parts, because you don't necessarily have time, like you said, to analyze.
Eldar [00:14:06]:
You got no time for that.
Mike [00:14:07]:
To think.
Anatoliy [00:14:08]:
Yeah, well, I think when you become good at something, you can get it to that point where it's like you're able to do things and process things at a faster pace than you would normally on other subjects because you're so experienced and well practiced. The example is like, if you're playing basketball, when you're at the top of the key and you're crossing somebody over and going to the basket, you're not in your mind saying, okay, I'm going.
Mike [00:14:34]:
To go left and then I'm going.
Anatoliy [00:14:36]:
To go right, and then I'm going to go straight. And then you're not thinking through that. It's just already happening. Your ability to process information in that field, for example, is extremely high, like a level where if I told you I don't know, to do something else you're not familiar with, your speed of processing is going to be much slower.
Mike [00:15:03]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:15:04]:
Right.
Eldar [00:15:04]:
And that's where fear creeps in and knows in between.
Anatoliy [00:15:10]:
You don't have time for fear.
Mike [00:15:11]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:15:12]:
Like when you're good at something. There's not enough time for fear to slip into the cracks and have effect.
Eldar [00:15:21]:
So then courage lives within those things where you still push yourself through while.
Anatoliy [00:15:28]:
Thinking, well, no, I think that courage only has the opportunity to come alive when you have moments of fear.
Eldar [00:15:36]:
That's what I'm saying. That's where it lives, in those spaces where you are thinking, especially when fear creeps in, thinking probably of fear. So courage can override that. To say, like, hey, we don't know.
Mike [00:15:50]:
But let's just do this anyway, right? Yeah. Okay.
Phillip [00:15:55]:
What about, like, we were talking about a comedian. What about somebody who is a professional? And you do hear like, oh, I get butterflies when I go on stage. Still, because there's a lot of factors. There can be a new crowd. It can be like a new city. There can be, like, butlers and all this type of other stuff. You're confident, but inside you do feel butterflies. So do you think even for that person, there might be an initial breakthrough of courage, of just like, hey, we might engage in some unexpected kind of behavior today, I'm going to go through that.
Phillip [00:16:29]:
No problem.
Eldar [00:16:29]:
See what you're saying, that you're expecting an unexpected behavior or unexpected pattern. That is the problem. As a professional, if you know your act, you've done it many times, you know you're still doing it to the same people in the same cultural background. Let's just say those jokes and that ump should land the same way. But because you're thinking, like, originally in the beginning of the thing, you're thinking like, oh, am I not? That's when you have that stuff, you're almost psyching yourself out, tricking yourself to think otherwise. But as soon as you get up there and you make the first joke, what happens to the Butterflies?
Phillip [00:17:04]:
It's gone automatically.
Mike [00:17:05]:
Gone. Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:17:07]:
You might be nervous as, like, a comedian, for example. I don't know. You're an english comedian who speaks in English and you get paid, I don't know, let's say, to go to a different country, somewhere in Korea or China, and they're going to live, transcribe your.
Mike [00:17:23]:
Jokes to the audience.
Anatoliy [00:17:25]:
You might have fears of, like, oh, are they going to be funny still? People going to understand, are they going to translate it correctly? That's an unexpected thing that you have not tried yet. So I think it's natural for you to have butterflies there because all of a sudden, you're not an expert in that exact scenario of what's happening. But if you're traveling, like, city to.
Mike [00:17:45]:
City.
Anatoliy [00:17:48]:
You already know what to expect.
Eldar [00:17:49]:
And if it was the case for everyone, that'd be like, okay, cool. Across the board, we suffer from the same thing. But I'm pretty sure there's plenty of people like, oh, even in UFC, when we watch UFC, they ask the fighters, hey, are you nervous about it? And when you come out, you're nervous? Some say, yes, I'm very nervous, and I'm scared inside. And some say, no, I don't care, but everything is shut off. I'm in the zone. I know the job, and I'm just focused on what needs to be done. I don't even hear the crowd. Everything disappears.
Mike [00:18:15]:
Right.
Eldar [00:18:15]:
So it's not all across the board.
Mike [00:18:17]:
For all the people. So does that mean, like, for UFC.
Mike [00:18:22]:
Their nervousness comes in all before, but once you get in there, I think most people will say, like, yo, I just zone in and I focus, and there's no fear. Unless, I guess, maybe everybody's different.
Eldar [00:18:34]:
Everybody's different. Everybody perceives that thing, this thing differently.
Phillip [00:18:37]:
Yeah, but aren't these, like, acquired skills also, to me, like, the way we're talking, we're talking about people that are professional at the top of their field. If you're starting, a lot of these people, let's say, started from nothing. You have to go on stage. You had to go into the burning building. You had to go in the cage at some point with little to no experience, didn't you have to build this thing up? So I think in the beginning, if.
Eldar [00:19:00]:
You'Re thrown into the ring right away without practice, yes. But before you go into a stage like UFC, you probably fought amateur fights for a very long time in front of, like, 100 people, maybe 200 people, not 1000 people or 10,000 people. But it's the same shit at the end of the day. But I'm saying, you have to build.
Phillip [00:19:16]:
Up that thing like a muscle from the beginning.
Eldar [00:19:18]:
I'm not sure it goes for everyone.
Phillip [00:19:20]:
You don't think so?
Eldar [00:19:21]:
I don't think so, yeah.
Anatoliy [00:19:22]:
I think it's your ability to focus on it. I don't know if it's, like, a very good example, but example I was thinking about is when my mom was sick and she needed to get a surgery, she needs to get an open heart procedure, and the doctor walked in. He was the one that was exposed to do the surgery. And then obviously, we're all nervous, unsure, is this safe stuff like that? And I remember I asked him, like, hey, are you confident in this procedure? And he's like, well, I've been doing this for 37 years, and I've never had one go south. So he's like, if you want to do this, I'm definitely the guy to do this. That's how we said, boom. 37 years. Never had one go wrong.
Eldar [00:20:00]:
And you think that he was coming into it nervously?
Anatoliy [00:20:03]:
No, I know that for me, it sounds like a crazy thing.
Eldar [00:20:06]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:20:06]:
I'm sure for him, he's in his open.
Eldar [00:20:09]:
Somebody up. To us, it's like, to regular people that don't know this, maybe to Dre, it's okay, right? He sees this, but to us, it's like, what the fuck?
Mike [00:20:16]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:20:16]:
He said 37 years. I never. That's what I'm wrong.
Eldar [00:20:19]:
Yes.
Anatoliy [00:20:21]:
Anything could happen. He said there has no guarantees. He's like, but I'm the guy for this?
Eldar [00:20:26]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:20:27]:
Correct. You scan them?
Eldar [00:20:30]:
Well, that was a question. That was a scanning question, yeah. Are you confident?
Mike [00:20:35]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:20:35]:
And then afterwards, because we had to make a very fast fruit decision, I.
Eldar [00:20:41]:
Thought, you're going to give him, like, a fruit platter afterwards, after he's done.
Anatoliy [00:20:44]:
And to make a very fast decision. But then we looked him up and he's like the board of directors of heart surgery in New Jersey, and he was on the top of everything.
Mike [00:20:54]:
Okay, good.
Phillip [00:20:56]:
But I think if you measure somebody from the beginning, whether that guy did his first surgery or, like, pre surgery, whatever he had to do up until what he's doing now, when he spoke to Tolley or the guy who had his first fight in front of five people versus his championship fight in ten years, I think the amount of courage you would probably need in the beginning is probably a lot more, because there is a lot more unexpected, and you don't have the experience to then say, like, okay, I expect this is going to happen. I think you have to go through some type of growing pain, or we're just all talking about expecting people just become champions and professionals. No, I think there has to be acquired skills and levels of courage where there is, you can't have all the knowledge in the beginning, and then just like, people don't just do this stuff with no knowledge.
Mike [00:21:39]:
I think what you're saying is, what I just thought about is that maybe a lot of times people go into things and they have to use courage because they're going in prematurely.
Phillip [00:21:50]:
That's what I'm saying.
Mike [00:21:50]:
Not educated enough. So think about this. Maybe you should educate yourself if you set your mind like, hey, I want to. For me, reoccurring lack of courage is.
Mike [00:21:59]:
With the girls, the approach thing, it's.
Mike [00:22:02]:
Because why is that? Because I'm not educated enough, maybe.
Mike [00:22:05]:
Right.
Mike [00:22:06]:
Let's just use that as like, a general thing, right. For the same thing. For those people that are going into it, they're not educated enough in exactly what they're about to engage into and see for what it is.
Mike [00:22:16]:
Therefore, you should probably, before you engage.
Mike [00:22:19]:
In something, you should learn about exactly what you're about to do versus jumping in there blindly, because then you're going to need the blind trust, the blind courage, the blind fear, all that stuff. But if you actually prepare yourself properly, you have probably a much better outcome and a much better experience.
Phillip [00:22:34]:
Yeah, but nothing can mimic the actual experience.
Mike [00:22:37]:
Me.
Phillip [00:22:37]:
And you can study and be like, okay, I understand, okay, women are like this, and I understand if I'm a comedian, crowds are going to be like this, and the joke is going to be like this until you go out and you actually do the thing, you have to build up the experience of actually doing it. So to me, like, education is a part of it.
Eldar [00:22:54]:
No, but I think education is a part of it. But tell me, Philip, one thing that you need to be doing that's going.
Mike [00:22:59]:
To be like, you're going to be.
Eldar [00:23:00]:
Judged right on the spot without having the ability to practice beforehand.
Mike [00:23:04]:
Like what?
Eldar [00:23:05]:
You can't practice your set in front of your friends to see whether they're going to laugh.
Phillip [00:23:09]:
You can, but I think, okay, make a bigger group.
Eldar [00:23:13]:
You know what I mean? Make it 30 people and then 40 people, and then you can get on the comedy seller spot where it's like, okay, now it's the strangers, now it's not my friends and stuff like that. I'm really going to do this.
Phillip [00:23:23]:
Yeah, but I'm saying practice. Nothing mimics that, though.
Mike [00:23:27]:
Like they say in the UFC, everything is good until you get punched in the face, and then it's a whole new experience.
Mike [00:23:33]:
But, yeah, I think part of it.
Mike [00:23:36]:
Is, I think me and toy were talking about this. Once you have the truth, the act, it becomes totally different. It's not as area anymore. And I would say you probably don't have a choice already in the matter because you want to do it. You set your mind to it, so you already know what's coming. You have a good idea. I don't know if it's going to be the face. Same way if you just come into a ring and you get punched in.
Mike [00:23:57]:
The face versus like, hey, let's talk.
Mike [00:24:00]:
About exactly what's going to happen if.
Mike [00:24:02]:
I go into this challenging situation. What could happen?
Mike [00:24:06]:
Think about all the situations. Am I ready? Test yourself in your knowledge and your.
Mike [00:24:10]:
Abilities before you go in.
Mike [00:24:13]:
I don't know if you'll have the same thing.
Phillip [00:24:15]:
I think the knowledge can help. All I'm saying is I think going to the actual experiences, that's where you're really building that skill, and that's where you'll need less courage from getting that experience. I don't think knowledge is going to hurt you. I think it can probably ease the amount of fear that you would have in that actual thing if you're the fighter. But I'm saying to me, you can do all you need to do to mimic going up to a girl, but then when you actually go up to her, it's just a totally different experience.
Mike [00:24:46]:
I just had a basketball example. Most of the people that we play with, they're much, much better in when it's pickup versus when it's in the game.
Eldar [00:24:55]:
Okay?
Mike [00:24:56]:
To me, that sounds like the person in his head thinks like, yo, this is a league. It's much more pressure. It's much more this, but really, it's nothing different to me. Your performance becomes much worse.
Mike [00:25:08]:
Why?
Mike [00:25:09]:
It has nothing to do with that. It has you in your head, psyching yourself out. Psyching yourself out. You made up yourself that this is more intense, much more serious, and you cannot do anything. We all know this, that we all play together, and we've all seen this for sure for myself and other people.
Mike [00:25:29]:
That we play against, it's a psychological thing.
Mike [00:25:33]:
You trick yourself into making a big deal out of nothing.
Phillip [00:25:36]:
So you think pressure can be bypassed by education and not if you sit.
Mike [00:25:41]:
Down and understand, like, yo, what the fuck am I doing here? I'm just playing basketball. How I play with my other people.
Eldar [00:25:46]:
I don't think people take the time to actually walk through those steps.
Anatoliy [00:25:50]:
They don't, because I also think that it's having the education and then ability to, for example, focus. They go hand in hand, but I do think that they're a bit separate. I feel like some people have an easier time focusing on what's going on. And because of their level of focus, they don't have fear where stuff like that creep in.
Mike [00:26:18]:
I think focus could also be tied to pressure. Like when you're under pressure, it's hard to concentrate. There's a million things going on. But this is a million things happens every time. Play ball, there's nothing different versus pickup and versus the league.
Mike [00:26:32]:
There's nothing.
Anatoliy [00:26:32]:
Well, that's what I'm saying is that I think a lot of it is how good you are at what you do. And if you are very good at what you do and you take away, if you address the different moments where.
Mike [00:26:44]:
You'Re forced to actively think, then I.
Anatoliy [00:26:47]:
Think that you will eventually. So I think active thinking, present thinking, probably invites fears 100%.
Mike [00:26:59]:
When you play basketball on the weekends, you're not thinking about. You're just instinctually doing whatever the fuck you usually do because you've been doing it for. That's what I'm saying.
Anatoliy [00:27:07]:
For you to be really good at something, I think that you need to get it to a point where you don't need to think anymore, like, actively think on that thing. And then if you do that, you're able to develop a particular level of focus that's required to not have to think.
Mike [00:27:27]:
I agree. Yeah.
Eldar [00:27:29]:
And the courage is not required there.
Mike [00:27:32]:
No.
Eldar [00:27:32]:
There's nothing courageous about that.
Mike [00:27:34]:
No.
Phillip [00:27:37]:
So you're doing enough thinking in the beginning to bypass the fear or diminish it, and then you're getting to the point where you're so focused and in the moment that you don't need to think, and you can just be kind of more reacting.
Mike [00:27:52]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:27:54]:
You controlling the internal, number one. And then you have the ability to control the external. But that all comes from being able to center yourself. So courage, it's almost a cheap way to kick start yourself to do something that you're not 100% sure about or you like.
Mike [00:28:13]:
Courage is like. It's, in a way, it's like using a cheat when you're not willing to do the right work that is required.
Eldar [00:28:19]:
Yeah, no, I mean, we're not talking about the instances where you're just walking outside on the street right now, walking your dogs.
Anatoliy [00:28:25]:
No.
Eldar [00:28:25]:
And the building is on fire. You know what I mean?
Mike [00:28:28]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:28:28]:
No, this is different. This is like, I want to go down this career path, and I want to try this thing.
Eldar [00:28:33]:
Correct.
Phillip [00:28:33]:
I see people do it this way. But say again, the comedian thing was the one we were talking about. I think that's a good example. It's like, okay, I know that if you go to a comedy place, if.
Eldar [00:28:46]:
You'Re going to go become a comic.
Phillip [00:28:47]:
Right. You have to go on stage and you have to perform in front of maybe a couple of people, and you have to just go on stage the first time. To me, the courageous person would have to psych themselves out to just get up there.
Eldar [00:28:59]:
That's right.
Phillip [00:28:59]:
And you're saying that the smart person is going to then say, maybe gather their friends in a group and say, hey, do you guys mind if I throw off some jokes in front of you guys and you guys just give me an honest feedback? So then that person that goes up after doing that test in front of their friends versus the guy that just goes up cold, he's going to be a lot more prone to have to use courage versus the other guy.
Mike [00:29:20]:
Right?
Phillip [00:29:21]:
Is that what you're saying?
Mike [00:29:21]:
Yeah. Okay.
Phillip [00:29:22]:
That makes sense.
Mike [00:29:23]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:29:23]:
But in general, people need to summon courage when they're doing something that's outside of their element. If you're a sales guide, someone breaks into your house, now you have to defend yourself or get into a gun match or something. You probably could summon some level of courage.
Mike [00:29:40]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:29:41]:
Because you're doing something that you're not familiar with.
Eldar [00:29:43]:
You never tested yourself, you never modeled it.
Mike [00:29:45]:
But break into Warren's house, he's going.
Anatoliy [00:29:49]:
To go into a James Bond.
Eldar [00:29:51]:
Exactly. He's been breaking into people's houses. You know what I'm saying? Because that's his job. DEA.
Mike [00:29:57]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:29:57]:
You know what I mean? So think about it. He's not going to be caught off guard.
Mike [00:30:01]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:30:01]:
He is going to be calm. He's going to know exactly what to look for, what to do and how do. That man of us probably would probably.
Mike [00:30:07]:
Be like shit on pants. Yeah.
Mike [00:30:09]:
Nah, we got 20 years cs experience.
Eldar [00:30:11]:
Crazy.
Anatoliy [00:30:12]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:30:13]:
This is true, too.
Anatoliy [00:30:14]:
Yeah. But then put ward in a situation where, I don't know, he has to go on a hard sales call or something. He's going to also not know what to do. He's going to have to summon courage to do that. That's why when you hear about people doing courageous things, it's always people that don't understand what's going on that are calling other people courageous. It's not them themselves saying that. For example, if you're talking about, if they say courageous firefighters went in there and look what they did. Save so many people.
Anatoliy [00:30:51]:
The non courageous people are talking about those people who are courageous, but they don't talk about themselves like that.
Eldar [00:30:58]:
Correct.
Anatoliy [00:30:58]:
They're like, oh, no. Yeah, we had a really courageous day today.
Phillip [00:31:02]:
So the only true way to say that is if that person on the media found, like an everyday just person going up to save a cat or save a person that wasn't a firefighter. I think you can describe that person as courageous.
Mike [00:31:14]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:31:14]:
You can probably label that more of like, that was out of courage.
Mike [00:31:18]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:31:18]:
Because they didn't know what to do. They were not experienced in this. They don't understand fire.
Eldar [00:31:22]:
But then you would have to are you assuming that?
Mike [00:31:25]:
Right?
Phillip [00:31:26]:
No, I'm saying we know for sure that they're not a firefighter.
Eldar [00:31:29]:
See, now this is the next question, right?
Mike [00:31:30]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:31:31]:
If the person really doesn't know shit from shit, is he going to go climb that tree to rescue that cat?
Phillip [00:31:38]:
To me, that would have to be 100% courage. Then, based off of what we're saying.
Eldar [00:31:42]:
I'm not sure if courage gets you there, because if you got two left feet, you're not climbing nothing.
Phillip [00:31:48]:
No, but don't you think that the instinct kicks in where that would be more of, like, a moral or ethical attachment to that person?
Mike [00:31:55]:
Right.
Phillip [00:31:56]:
Like, if they just didn't want to see somebody suffer and they didn't really care about.
Eldar [00:31:59]:
No, it's not that they don't care. It's just they don't have the abilities.
Mike [00:32:02]:
Or the skills to do it. You know what I mean?
Phillip [00:32:07]:
To me, it's like the parent or something that can have the strength to move a car or something like this. So if their babies underneath it or something where Penny, they wouldn't maybe think that they had that kind of strength where this guy maybe didn't think he had the ability. I'm just saying, don't you think sometimes the emotional overrides the logical and in the moment where it's more of the.
Mike [00:32:28]:
Firefighter type mentality, like when somebody's life.
Phillip [00:32:32]:
Is on the line, where it's very extreme.
Mike [00:32:36]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:32:37]:
I'm just not sure that person who actually acts in a courageous way has.
Mike [00:32:43]:
Not modeled that in their head, don't.
Eldar [00:32:45]:
Have the skills to actually commit that or do it.
Mike [00:32:48]:
You know what I mean?
Anatoliy [00:32:49]:
I'm definitely not going in the tree.
Mike [00:32:52]:
You're not saving the cat in the tree?
Mike [00:32:54]:
Yeah.
Phillip [00:32:55]:
I don't know how to climb a tree, but if I saw a baby or something like that in a tree.
Mike [00:32:59]:
I would definitely try to climb the tree. I don't know how to climb a tree. No.
Anatoliy [00:33:04]:
I think the smarter thing would be.
Eldar [00:33:05]:
To call the right person to.
Anatoliy [00:33:08]:
I think it'd be stupid to climb it.
Phillip [00:33:09]:
Yeah, but what if it was, like, hanging on by a thread and you.
Mike [00:33:13]:
Had to do it?
Anatoliy [00:33:16]:
Yeah, I don't know if you're climbing at this point.
Phillip [00:33:18]:
Yeah, I'm talking about extreme situations.
Eldar [00:33:22]:
No, I get it. I'm trying to find out the psychology behind what actually goes through that person's head and what's the calculation in that moment, within that moment, in order to actually act courageously.
Phillip [00:33:34]:
I think it's all emotional. There's no logic, and it's attached to that person's moral fiber, like their ability to say, okay, yes or no, certain.
Mike [00:33:43]:
Things, it's their moral fiber. You think it's just the person's traits.
Eldar [00:33:48]:
Everything I think of a person who.
Mike [00:33:50]:
Always acts courageous, always does things without really thinking through, maybe.
Mike [00:33:54]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:33:54]:
I think you have to have a bit of stupidity to act courageous. Like a calculated person is not going.
Mike [00:34:00]:
To do all that, even though that's how they.
Eldar [00:34:05]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think courage, it's almost perceived, like, totally said by the individual.
Andrey [00:34:11]:
Courageousness, cowardice. So if the person courageous is ignorant, is the coward.
Eldar [00:34:18]:
I wouldn't call them coward, though.
Phillip [00:34:21]:
Now, based off of this example, I.
Eldar [00:34:23]:
Don'T think coward is an appropriate word.
Mike [00:34:25]:
No.
Mike [00:34:25]:
I think it's knowing your limits.
Phillip [00:34:28]:
You can probably call this person. You probably call this person.
Eldar [00:34:31]:
That's why they even came up with a bystander.
Mike [00:34:32]:
Intelligent then.
Andrey [00:34:33]:
So if being courageous comes with a degree of ignorance and stupidity, being a coward can be somewhat smart or self controlled.
Mike [00:34:45]:
Right?
Eldar [00:34:45]:
Potentially, because I'm not sure. Right.
Andrey [00:34:47]:
Coward has a negative connotation.
Mike [00:34:49]:
Not being confident in your abilities, maybe.
Andrey [00:34:52]:
That'S smart, actually, for the particular moment.
Mike [00:34:54]:
Right.
Eldar [00:34:55]:
If he says, okay, cool, I see this baby dangling on the tree, but I've never climbed trees before. He starts climbing the tree. He has no skills, doesn't know how to put the foot the proper way. He falls down, breaks his leg. We have two casualties. Where's the courage got him to?
Mike [00:35:09]:
Right? Yeah.
Eldar [00:35:10]:
What are we talking about?
Mike [00:35:11]:
That's right.
Anatoliy [00:35:11]:
So you put the courageous people on the front line.
Eldar [00:35:15]:
You're saying that courageous people are stupid people?
Mike [00:35:17]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:35:18]:
Quote unquote courageous people. He's bad. So you guys are saying that it's being courageous necessary?
Mike [00:35:26]:
Yeah, I think courage, requiring courage is a good indicator that you're not ready.
Mike [00:35:32]:
For what you're about to do.
Mike [00:35:34]:
But people don't listen. Maybe it's, in a way, courage is a protector. Somehow, some odly reverse way, it's a protector for yourself to let you know, like, yo, you shouldn't be doing this. You're not ready for this. You're not.
Mike [00:35:45]:
Like, you've been talking about the fear. Yeah.
Mike [00:35:49]:
Well, the fear.
Eldar [00:35:50]:
The fear is holding you back, but your courage.
Mike [00:35:53]:
Right. Yeah.
Eldar [00:35:55]:
Pushes you through.
Mike [00:35:56]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:35:57]:
Well, yeah. In that specific example.
Mike [00:35:59]:
Yeah. The fear.
Mike [00:36:04]:
You're fearful to be courageous because you're not prepared.
Anatoliy [00:36:06]:
I don't think you're fearful to be courageous, but.
Eldar [00:36:11]:
I wonder if there's any cases of people that ran into the burning building, right. Died, saved the people that they went to save but died themselves, and whether or not that person ever had a conversation with himself of what he would do if this ever happened to him, that he went off of that decision making process.
Mike [00:36:35]:
Right. And not just like for the first time. Oh, shit.
Eldar [00:36:40]:
What do I do here?
Mike [00:36:42]:
Right? I'm just running in.
Eldar [00:36:46]:
So my question is, did those people ever had that conversation within themselves as.
Mike [00:36:51]:
To say they decided that?
Eldar [00:36:52]:
They decided that. Look, you know what I mean? If I'm gonna say I'm gonna save these babies from this burning building, but.
Mike [00:36:58]:
I'm okay with dying. Yeah. I think that.
Anatoliy [00:37:01]:
I'm not sure many people live by that or stuff like that, but I think if you sign up for any of those kinds of things, right. I'm not sure if there's some kind.
Mike [00:37:08]:
Of manuscript or whatever or, I don't.
Anatoliy [00:37:13]:
Know, some thing where it says this.
Mike [00:37:15]:
But I guess the common thing you.
Anatoliy [00:37:19]:
Hear is you serve to protect, right?
Mike [00:37:22]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:37:22]:
For example, for like a cop or something.
Mike [00:37:24]:
Yeah. Oh, I think it's like the oath, right?
Anatoliy [00:37:30]:
You take an oath, and I'm not sure if part of the oath mentions that you need to be willing to.
Eldar [00:37:38]:
Sacrifice your life for the service of others.
Mike [00:37:41]:
Right? Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:37:44]:
I'm not sure if they agree verbally, need to agree to that, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's in, like.
Eldar [00:37:49]:
I think that's part of it, man. I think it's part of it. I'm not 100% sure.
Mike [00:37:53]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:37:54]:
Or you hear in the movies, there's like, military stuff, like a military movie. They're like, are you ready to die for your country?
Mike [00:38:01]:
Yeah. Right.
Anatoliy [00:38:02]:
Patriotic like that. You're pretty much willing to do this.
Mike [00:38:06]:
For, I guess, a greater good. Yeah.
Mike [00:38:09]:
Even.
Eldar [00:38:09]:
You don't even know if you are doing it for greater good. But you. In those cases.
Anatoliy [00:38:13]:
Yeah, there are those cases. It's probably more blind, but yeah.
Mike [00:38:18]:
I.
Eldar [00:38:18]:
Think we might have a problem with those cases. But in the case of just a burning building, it's in the split of the moment.
Mike [00:38:26]:
It's just. Boom.
Eldar [00:38:27]:
In the moment.
Mike [00:38:27]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:38:27]:
I think there needs to be that there's an understood danger in particular.
Eldar [00:38:33]:
Have you ever guys thought about public shootings, mass shootings and stuff? Because they happen all the time. So I'm constantly thinking. I've thought about that many times where. What do I do if I'm in the place, like a mall or somewhere and there's a shooter, active shooter, what do you do? You know what I'm saying? At the gym. I think about the gym all the time. There's a lot of people, a lot of weirdos. If a guy pulls out a gun.
Mike [00:38:58]:
What do I do?
Eldar [00:39:00]:
What's my go to?
Andrey [00:39:01]:
I think most people don't know how they would react. Most people don't really know how.
Eldar [00:39:06]:
No, but I'm saying, yeah, probably not. But do you think about it?
Mike [00:39:09]:
You know what I mean?
Andrey [00:39:11]:
They do active Shooter trainings in military. You have to do it every like.
Mike [00:39:14]:
One or two years.
Andrey [00:39:16]:
But that's what they tell you, their prescription of what you should do. So you get people into a room, you close the door, you never try to disarm the shooter because most people don't know how. And then you get low, you don't try to negotiate or disarm.
Eldar [00:39:41]:
That's not what goes in my head.
Mike [00:39:42]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:39:44]:
I was going to say what does.
Eldar [00:39:45]:
I'm going to make sure, find out where he's located and keep my eyes on him at all times. Yeah, keep my eyes at him all times. Meaning I'm almost dodging bullets behind big things, but I'm watching.
Andrey [00:39:59]:
But you're not running away.
Eldar [00:40:01]:
I'm not running away because I need to find out what the fuck is going on.
Anatoliy [00:40:05]:
No, but if you're talking about the mall, right.
Mike [00:40:09]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:40:09]:
And let's say running away, it's an easy thing. I could just bounce. And that's it.
Mike [00:40:14]:
Yeah.
Andrey [00:40:14]:
Say you're in a building in that.
Mike [00:40:16]:
Floor and you're in this room, but the shooter is on the way of.
Andrey [00:40:21]:
The exit, on the way to the elevator. The shooter is there.
Eldar [00:40:24]:
What will you do then? Well, that's the thing. I'm hiding and I'm paying attention to make sure that there's some kind of an opening.
Anatoliy [00:40:33]:
Yeah. I feel like at that point, the wise thing to do is to play probabilities.
Mike [00:40:40]:
Right.
Anatoliy [00:40:40]:
Like you're trying to play whatever is the most probable way for you to survive, I guess.
Mike [00:40:45]:
Right?
Anatoliy [00:40:47]:
Like, if you're looking for an opening, that means you're looking for a high.
Mike [00:40:50]:
Probability chance for you to get by.
Anatoliy [00:40:52]:
Not looking for an opening is just running out and just.
Eldar [00:40:55]:
No, that's 100% now. I don't want to get sprayed into my back.
Mike [00:40:58]:
No.
Eldar [00:41:00]:
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I definitely want to almost dodge it if I get a chance to. If he drops his gun or starts reloading, he can't find his thing. Maybe a chance to run up on him, you know what I mean? And hit him or something. Bum rush him. But I don't know what the probability of that is, but that's what I'm thinking about. I have to pay very close attention to where it's coming from and where he's going.
Mike [00:41:24]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [00:41:25]:
What's his next steps?
Andrey [00:41:26]:
But you're trying to dodge bullets and try to run past the intruder.
Anatoliy [00:41:33]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:41:33]:
I think that you also survive as long as possible.
Andrey [00:41:35]:
Not what they recommend in those things.
Eldar [00:41:37]:
Yeah, I don't know, but that's what goes in my head.
Anatoliy [00:41:41]:
I feel like if you're very good too, you could probably try to get a read on the temperament of what this person's goal is and what they're doing. Are they just trying to kill as many people as possible? Doesn't matter. Are they trying to get something? Like trying to steal something or get something and that's their goal or what's going on here? That's probably like a next level.
Eldar [00:41:59]:
What are you thinking about? You think about these scenarios?
Anatoliy [00:42:02]:
I don't think about them at all. In general, probably. No.
Eldar [00:42:06]:
When these things happen, these things happen all the time.
Anatoliy [00:42:08]:
No, I know that they happen.
Mike [00:42:10]:
What would you do?
Anatoliy [00:42:11]:
Yeah, me, I'm more along the lines of, like, yeah, I'm going to hide, try to figure out where this is happening and try to figure out how to get to an exit where I can get out safely. That'd probably be my.
Eldar [00:42:21]:
Yeah, I don't want to be part of a herd of people that's dumping.
Mike [00:42:24]:
On you and killing you that way.
Mike [00:42:26]:
No.
Eldar [00:42:26]:
Like that kind of crazy shit.
Mike [00:42:27]:
No.
Eldar [00:42:29]:
I don't know.
Anatoliy [00:42:31]:
Yeah, but also, it's like, depending on. You're pretty slick and fast. I can't take that kind of speed like that. You can.
Eldar [00:42:39]:
What do you mean?
Anatoliy [00:42:40]:
Like us?
Andrey [00:42:40]:
Elder is playing too much.
Eldar [00:42:44]:
Know?
Mike [00:42:45]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:42:45]:
I'm like, okay, cool. Like, what are we talking about? Except for one person, sooner or later.
Mike [00:42:48]:
He has to reload the mag. That's true.
Eldar [00:42:53]:
You know what I'm saying? Unless he's throwing nades, then I'm out of here, bro. Yeah. I'm running.
Anatoliy [00:42:59]:
What if he has, like, a bomb on his vest and he's ready to press the trigger to blow your worries.
Eldar [00:43:04]:
As long as you're far away from him. You know what I mean?
Anatoliy [00:43:06]:
No, but if you're in the radius of where you would die, you go.
Eldar [00:43:10]:
Low to the ground.
Andrey [00:43:11]:
The main thing is you should go low to the ground and follow instructions of interrogators and emergency personnel. You're supposed to kind of follow their instructions, but I don't know if that. No one.
Eldar [00:43:25]:
Philip, do you think about active shooters in malls or gyms or movie theaters.
Anatoliy [00:43:31]:
Like, what would you do?
Eldar [00:43:32]:
Because this shit happens all the time. What would you do if it happens to you? If you're in the mix of it and you're like, oh, shit, he's right next to me. No, he just walked into the mall and he's popping off shots and you're sitting, eating your burger at the food stand. You just looked over there and he's maybe 100ft, 150ft, 200ft away, killing people like that. Boom, boom, boom. What are you doing?
Phillip [00:43:55]:
The chances of you running up to that guy and altering the shot at that distance is very low.
Eldar [00:44:00]:
I think.
Mike [00:44:01]:
I think there's a good chance you get clipped. Sure.
Phillip [00:44:03]:
So what are you doing? Your best ability, I mean, it's also dependent. Am I an individual or do I have kids and family and other people also? Because then my mentality would change.
Eldar [00:44:13]:
Okay, you have friends with friends, two or three of you, I would do.
Phillip [00:44:20]:
Like, a quick assessment of what we got and who's the strongest and what their ability is. If you were fast, somebody was, say, smart at hiding or something, you would.
Eldar [00:44:30]:
Need to tackle him.
Anatoliy [00:44:35]:
Actually, he brings up a good point. What you bring up, if it's like me, you and Mike, are you just trying to get out and go? Or are we operating as, like, a.
Eldar [00:44:46]:
No, no. Yeah, in that case, yeah, we have to wait. If we're operating as a unit and we need to tackle this guy, because we have nowhere to go because there's no exits, let's just say there has to be some kind of, like, hey, somebody's got to run up. If it's me, you, and Mike, I got to run up there and distract them. But you guys come back and tackle kind of like. Or something like, either I distract them.
Mike [00:45:07]:
He'S another one up to him.
Eldar [00:45:10]:
I'm not confident at all.
Phillip [00:45:11]:
No.
Andrey [00:45:18]:
Escape or apprehend? Apprehend.
Eldar [00:45:21]:
No.
Anatoliy [00:45:22]:
Goal number one is to escape, I think.
Mike [00:45:24]:
Sure.
Eldar [00:45:24]:
Yeah, but if you're with friends, like you said, then what's the assessment? Like, ditching your friends, too, to get shot?
Phillip [00:45:31]:
Well, no, I think you're assessing what exit and the quickest for all three.
Mike [00:45:35]:
Of you to get there.
Phillip [00:45:36]:
I don't think you're approaching this.
Eldar [00:45:37]:
We're not tackling him.
Phillip [00:45:38]:
No.
Eldar [00:45:39]:
If it's a handgun.
Phillip [00:45:41]:
A handgun?
Eldar [00:45:42]:
Are we not counting bullets?
Phillip [00:45:43]:
Yeah. See, I don't know how to do this. I would be like, hey, you got.
Eldar [00:45:48]:
A Glock, you got nine in a chamber.
Mike [00:45:49]:
No, but different. What if you got to extend the clips, you got to switch, trying to.
Phillip [00:45:53]:
Find out the chances of betting on that and him not having extra ammo. And this guy's already batshit crazy, and he's in a mall shooting up to me. I wouldn't put it past this guy to have, like, a grenade and have other bullshit, too.
Anatoliy [00:46:05]:
No, I'm definitely trying to figure out, if I'm with friends, what's the best way for us to get out safely?
Mike [00:46:10]:
Yeah, I'm definitely not thinking about.
Eldar [00:46:11]:
Because I can run much faster than.
Mike [00:46:13]:
You, for example, you get shot, you.
Eldar [00:46:16]:
Could be the chills, but I think.
Anatoliy [00:46:18]:
I can get hit with one and run flats.
Eldar [00:46:21]:
Yeah, you could definitely take one or two.
Mike [00:46:24]:
He's got a built in bulletproof.
Phillip [00:46:26]:
So to me, what I would do is, like, okay, you're the fastest, right? So I would say you run football.
Eldar [00:46:33]:
You have MMA experience. Okay, I'm the fastest.
Phillip [00:46:37]:
I would still bypass doing anything. I would do a distraction where maybe we find something on the ground where we throw it, where he looks real quick. We're throwing shakes, throwing the protein shakes at him. So slow. Guy can go first.
Mike [00:46:51]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:46:51]:
Oh, shit. You have a tactical fucking.
Phillip [00:46:54]:
Then you can be on your own.
Mike [00:46:55]:
More so because you're faster.
Phillip [00:46:57]:
And then I think that you can go maybe after.
Eldar [00:47:00]:
I don't think that's how it plays out at all. I think everybody scrambles and loses their shit. Right, Drake?
Mike [00:47:05]:
But that's what I'm.
Andrey [00:47:06]:
There's no analysis.
Eldar [00:47:07]:
Yeah, there's no, like, all right, guys, huddle up here.
Anatoliy [00:47:10]:
I just think it depends on the situation, guys. If we're one end of the mall and he's at the other end of the mall, we're just getting the fuck out.
Mike [00:47:18]:
Me, you.
Eldar [00:47:18]:
We're not going to turn around and be like, yo, Mike, you had a.
Mike [00:47:20]:
Good run at this, bro.
Eldar [00:47:22]:
You got to go straight at him and just.
Anatoliy [00:47:24]:
Do I have a weapon right now? No, I'm saying that the example where we're in one end of the mall and he's at the complete opposite, and they announce as a loudspeaker, we're all just escaping out. There's no thinking.
Mike [00:47:36]:
Right?
Anatoliy [00:47:37]:
But I'm saying is that if we're working out on the top floor and he just comes up in the top.
Eldar [00:47:41]:
Floor, we got to go down through.
Anatoliy [00:47:42]:
Him, and we got to go down. That's when we need to properly hide and definitely get some, let's say one.
Andrey [00:47:49]:
Exit from the gym through the front door. What are you doing?
Eldar [00:47:55]:
It's open space. There's no rooms. There's only dumbbells. Are we hurling dumbbells bathroom.
Andrey [00:48:01]:
And hiding.
Anatoliy [00:48:02]:
No.
Eldar [00:48:02]:
Mike holding 45 flairs in front of him. While we're just.
Anatoliy [00:48:09]:
Our first thing 100% is to find a spot to hide.
Phillip [00:48:13]:
What's the sharpest object in a gym that you can have access to at any given time?
Eldar [00:48:16]:
There's five pound dumbbells that you can hurl and if you hit them in the head.
Phillip [00:48:19]:
No. What's the sharpest item?
Anatoliy [00:48:21]:
You don't need sharp.
Phillip [00:48:22]:
I'm just saying.
Anatoliy [00:48:23]:
Is there a sharp, sharp item?
Mike [00:48:25]:
The ropes. The aerobic ropes. Rope with Dopam.
Phillip [00:48:28]:
So you're relying on heavy weight?
Eldar [00:48:31]:
I don't know. I don't know what I'm relying on. Where's the courage come in? When does the courage come in here?
Phillip [00:48:39]:
If you potentially have to face him? I think there's the courage there. I think escaping is going to be a lot less.
Eldar [00:48:45]:
They just said we don't have an exit.
Phillip [00:48:46]:
Oh, we don't have an exit?
Mike [00:48:47]:
No. Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:48:48]:
Then we have to grab whatever weapons we have, hide in safe places and start to throw dumbbells, evaluate it. No. And devise a plan.
Andrey [00:48:56]:
I think I would do that.
Eldar [00:48:57]:
If it's three or four of us. Right. We almost have to say, hey, somebody's going to get clipped.
Mike [00:49:02]:
Right. Spread out. He can only.
Anatoliy [00:49:05]:
No, but we're going to be in a gym full of people and shit to hide behind. Right.
Eldar [00:49:10]:
I don't know what you're going to have, bro.
Andrey [00:49:12]:
You're going to hide behind people?
Mike [00:49:13]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:49:13]:
No, yeah, he's going to need to. Yeah, I don't think that we can rely on that. This is like a trained assassin.
Eldar [00:49:23]:
He's not.
Anatoliy [00:49:24]:
He might just be an angry Joe schmo that has two left feet.
Eldar [00:49:27]:
He might not even know how to reload his gun.
Mike [00:49:29]:
Yeah.
Katherine [00:49:30]:
He might be a disgruntled guy who has army.
Anatoliy [00:49:36]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm not going to live in a world where I'm facing, like, a fucking, like John Wick. It's over. You had a good run, Mike.
Eldar [00:49:47]:
I'm begging him to shoot me straight in the head.
Mike [00:49:49]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:49:50]:
In that case, I don't want to bleed out. I just want to get done.
Anatoliy [00:49:54]:
Yeah. But I'm not going to rely on facing a fucking John Wick over here.
Mike [00:49:57]:
Yes.
Anatoliy [00:49:58]:
Who's just going to fucking, like, bend bullets.
Mike [00:50:00]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:50:00]:
I'm going to try to find if I could get any weapons, hide somewhere safe, and if I'm with a group of people, try to everyone get everyone to gather weapons and start devising a plan.
Eldar [00:50:12]:
You have 20 people. He has a handgun. Are we bum rushing him?
Anatoliy [00:50:15]:
No.
Eldar [00:50:18]:
Say something.
Anatoliy [00:50:19]:
I'm not a front lines type of soul here.
Eldar [00:50:21]:
Listen, what's the chance of him hitting all 20? He's only hitting one out of 20.
Anatoliy [00:50:27]:
No, 100%. But I'm saying is that I'm not going to be in the front.
Eldar [00:50:31]:
No. It's a line of 20 people going.
Mike [00:50:33]:
At the same time.
Anatoliy [00:50:34]:
Oh, no, I'm not going to be willing.
Eldar [00:50:35]:
Like a wall.
Mike [00:50:37]:
You get the weights and you put them in front of you.
Eldar [00:50:39]:
But it's guaranteed that we're going to subdue him. But somebody might get shot.
Anatoliy [00:50:42]:
I'm going to be in the direction giving a category.
Mike [00:50:46]:
Okay.
Eldar [00:50:50]:
So there's no courage in this one. Active shooters. We got no courage here.
Anatoliy [00:50:55]:
What do you mean?
Eldar [00:50:56]:
If you're going to go on the.
Anatoliy [00:50:56]:
Front lines, then you're going to have courage.
Eldar [00:50:58]:
That's what I'm saying.
Mike [00:51:00]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:51:03]:
I'm definitely more in the ideally, like, devise a plan type.
Eldar [00:51:06]:
Well, the plan is 20 people. We're just going to bum rush him. We're going to grab him and that's it.
Mike [00:51:11]:
You're going to bum rush him, Dre.
Eldar [00:51:14]:
20 people, one gets shot. While we were running through.
Anatoliy [00:51:19]:
Are you willing to be in the front?
Andrey [00:51:20]:
It's never going to be coordinated like that. I know it's going to be chaos.
Eldar [00:51:23]:
It's going to be chaos. It's going to be chaos there.
Phillip [00:51:26]:
But he has the ability to kill all 20. If you do scatter and do your own individual thing.
Mike [00:51:30]:
Correct.
Eldar [00:51:31]:
With this being a bit, only one might get shot. You don't even know we're going to die yet.
Andrey [00:51:36]:
There will be some people that will try.
Phillip [00:51:37]:
It's not bad.
Mike [00:51:38]:
If you run with a 25 pound weight in front of your face, you.
Anatoliy [00:51:41]:
Have a higher chance and you just yell, guy.
Eldar [00:51:44]:
Because as long as you get hit in the vitals, you're good.
Mike [00:51:46]:
Yeah, but you're not going to be.
Anatoliy [00:51:48]:
In the front doing this.
Eldar [00:51:50]:
20 people with 45 dumbbells, Mike.
Mike [00:51:52]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:51:52]:
Everybody got to get a couple of meat heads. They're going to be in the front.
Eldar [00:51:56]:
You grabbing 245. What, like this?
Anatoliy [00:51:58]:
No, I'm not going to grab a plate. Like, I'm going to be slow as shit. I'm probably going to rip out. Just off the top of my head, I'm going to rip out all those things that you use to set the weight. I'm going to rip all those out as I'm walking by, try to collect them.
Mike [00:52:14]:
Those things are pretty heavy and they're.
Anatoliy [00:52:16]:
Easily easy to throw.
Mike [00:52:19]:
Which things?
Anatoliy [00:52:21]:
Those little things you use to put in the holes.
Eldar [00:52:24]:
Clams.
Mike [00:52:24]:
Right. No.
Eldar [00:52:27]:
They'Re not sharp, though.
Phillip [00:52:28]:
They're metal.
Anatoliy [00:52:29]:
No, I know when you're using those machines and stuff and they're pins. The pins. I'm taking all the pins where the pins are attached.
Phillip [00:52:39]:
He's looking into, like, punch.
Eldar [00:52:41]:
Well, what do you need? You need like this?
Anatoliy [00:52:43]:
No, you need things you want to be. No, you might need things for distraction. I throw that shit, he's looking left if it hits next to him.
Eldar [00:52:51]:
Yeah, that's true.
Anatoliy [00:52:51]:
That might be a good time.
Phillip [00:52:52]:
I would go fire extinguisher number one weapon.
Mike [00:52:56]:
Fire extinguisher number one.
Phillip [00:52:57]:
Yeah, that's a good point. You're going to create a total, like, just smoke. Smoke and bear. If you ever hit anybody with that, it foams up. It's very distracting. So if you hit somebody's eye with. So if you had somebody very strong that you were like, yo, I'm going to take the dumbbell and I'm going to throw it sideways. And like, you fucking hit him in the head with like a 45 or a 25 and you're hitting them with the people.
Eldar [00:53:22]:
We're taking fives and we're hurling.
Phillip [00:53:24]:
I say everybody has weights, everybody throws it at him. And then one guy has the fire extinguisher that's going to hit him first and blind him.
Anatoliy [00:53:34]:
Not every tool that you have needs to be the fatal blow. No, you need distractions. You need annoying things.
Mike [00:53:40]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:53:40]:
You need a small little thing.
Anatoliy [00:53:42]:
Remember, hold on.
Phillip [00:53:43]:
They put them through the ringer with, like, the paint cans.
Anatoliy [00:53:46]:
If I could turn all the volume max on the tvs, I'm doing that. Throwing on the speaker.
Mike [00:53:51]:
What about turning all the lights off, too?
Anatoliy [00:53:53]:
Yeah, there's a lot of things at play here.
Phillip [00:53:57]:
I would get the microphone, do the microphone, the announcement.
Eldar [00:54:01]:
These things are very hard to do. You have seconds, bro.
Mike [00:54:04]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:54:04]:
This is not like, hey, let's talk about it.
Anatoliy [00:54:06]:
No, but if you're in the gym, he walks up there, you hear a.
Mike [00:54:09]:
Gunshot, you're going to have to make moves.
Anatoliy [00:54:12]:
It's not like your instant death.
Eldar [00:54:14]:
I think you're underestimating how fast everything.
Mike [00:54:16]:
Is in our gym. You could jump from the second floor.
Mike [00:54:18]:
To the first floor lobby.
Eldar [00:54:19]:
Yeah. That's jump on the right side.
Mike [00:54:22]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:54:23]:
I think I would just hurdle that shit.
Mike [00:54:25]:
Can you jump that fence 100%?
Anatoliy [00:54:27]:
I could easily jump that fear on the line. There's going to be a fire under my ass.
Eldar [00:54:32]:
Yeah. You just have to land on the.
Mike [00:54:34]:
Death on the desk.
Anatoliy [00:54:35]:
It doesn't matter where I land. I don't care what happens at the point.
Eldar [00:54:37]:
But if you land, you crawl it out.
Mike [00:54:40]:
He might catch you if you don't land.
Anatoliy [00:54:42]:
Strategically, no, but that's courage, too.
Eldar [00:54:45]:
Wait a minute.
Anatoliy [00:54:45]:
That would be courage.
Mike [00:54:46]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:54:47]:
I don't know what the fuck's going on. I'm just going to jump.
Eldar [00:54:49]:
That's courageous, right? Yeah, it's a little bit stupid.
Phillip [00:54:53]:
Why does courageous have such a positive connotation?
Anatoliy [00:54:56]:
It doesn't. As a negative.
Eldar [00:54:57]:
Well, now, based on what we're talking.
Phillip [00:54:59]:
No, in this conversation, I'm saying just in general.
Eldar [00:55:01]:
In general? Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:55:02]:
People talk about people can't explain shit.
Eldar [00:55:04]:
Yeah, it totally might be right.
Anatoliy [00:55:06]:
Because it's somebody who's somebody talking about somebody else. Like you hear a news anchor talking about, let's say, a courageous firefighter.
Mike [00:55:14]:
Yeah, that firefighter.
Eldar [00:55:16]:
Have you ever associated nurses as courageous people?
Mike [00:55:18]:
Not until Covid hit.
Eldar [00:55:20]:
Oh, Mike, why are you giving out the answers?
Mike [00:55:22]:
He's not going to get it anyway.
Phillip [00:55:23]:
Not until Covid hit.
Eldar [00:55:24]:
You see?
Mike [00:55:25]:
Right.
Eldar [00:55:26]:
Not until Covid hit. And then Covid, this big bad wolf and all the nurses are still going to work. And they're not scared.
Anatoliy [00:55:33]:
They probably are scared, but we're like an ER doctor that has to bring someone back to life or something.
Mike [00:55:38]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:55:39]:
There are split seconds. Every second matters here. Right.
Mike [00:55:43]:
It all keeps going back to education. If you don't know what to do in a split second. Because you have to recollect from your memory of information and knowledge. I think that's part of it. Being able to know what to do. Because you already have all the answers. You just have to access it.
Eldar [00:55:59]:
So here's what I think about courage. I think, number one, we misuse the word courage to explain the phenomenon that we don't understand.
Mike [00:56:08]:
Yes. Yeah, that's number one.
Eldar [00:56:11]:
And that happens a lot, I think.
Mike [00:56:12]:
Right.
Eldar [00:56:12]:
Like I said, I'm not courageous because I know how to extinguish a bee or pick up a spider because Catherine's scared of spiders.
Mike [00:56:23]:
Not courageous.
Eldar [00:56:24]:
I just know that that spider is not going to bite me or that bee is not going to bite me.
Anatoliy [00:56:27]:
I'm sure if it was a tarantula or something.
Mike [00:56:30]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:56:30]:
If it was something serious, trust me, sure. I ain't going to be as courageous as.
Anatoliy [00:56:34]:
You're not picking that shit up as I would be.
Eldar [00:56:36]:
Daddy long leg.
Mike [00:56:37]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:56:38]:
Fighter is black and a giant. Like a hairy tarantula.
Eldar [00:56:42]:
Exactly.
Anatoliy [00:56:43]:
You're not going to pick that guy up.
Mike [00:56:44]:
Exactly.
Eldar [00:56:45]:
So number one, I think we misused the word courageous. Who's courageous? Who's not is because we don't understand what the profession entails, how much preparation went into it, and why people do it so effortlessly.
Anatoliy [00:56:58]:
So we just have to blanket it as like they're being courageous. Then people have this whole story.
Mike [00:57:04]:
Yeah.
Eldar [00:57:06]:
And the second one, obviously, is the people that actually run into a burning building without any training, without knowing the consequences. And that might not be so smart, obviously, unless you, of course, had a conversation with yourself prior, I think, to say, you know what?
Mike [00:57:20]:
If this ever happens, I'm running into.
Eldar [00:57:23]:
That building and I don't care about my life. A person that didn't have that conversation with themselves, I'm not sure if they're actually doing it. What do you guys think?
Mike [00:57:32]:
Yeah.
Andrey [00:57:35]:
I think even if you did have that conversation with yourself.
Mike [00:57:40]:
What do.
Eldar [00:57:41]:
You think about this? All the people that ran into that building and died, did they have that conversation with themselves before they ran into that building or.
Mike [00:57:48]:
No.
Andrey [00:57:49]:
The firefighters or the regular.
Eldar [00:57:51]:
Regular people? No, firefighters were already. That's not courageous.
Mike [00:57:54]:
That's the job. I don't know if they had that.
Eldar [00:57:57]:
Conversation with themselves prior to losing their.
Mike [00:58:00]:
Life to something like that, to see.
Andrey [00:58:03]:
What they would do.
Mike [00:58:04]:
Yeah.
Mike [00:58:04]:
It's interesting, the mindset of a person who does that.
Mike [00:58:06]:
Right. I don't understand it. Somebody who's willing to do that, just.
Mike [00:58:11]:
A regular person, obviously not a professional.
Mike [00:58:14]:
To be able to do that.
Mike [00:58:15]:
I'm not sure what it takes or what kind of mindset to be in to do that.
Eldar [00:58:20]:
If my house was burning down and Archie was inside, what am I doing?
Mike [00:58:24]:
Well, I got a scare. Told me.
Eldar [00:58:26]:
Fine.
Anatoliy [00:58:27]:
Yeah, I think you're probably going in there.
Mike [00:58:30]:
You think I'm going in there?
Eldar [00:58:31]:
I think so, yeah.
Andrey [00:58:32]:
It's a matter of.
Phillip [00:58:32]:
I would go in there, but only.
Anatoliy [00:58:34]:
To a certain point. Like if you go into a room.
Eldar [00:58:37]:
Now, you're talking about calculation.
Mike [00:58:39]:
Yes.
Eldar [00:58:39]:
You're talking about a calculation.
Mike [00:58:40]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [00:58:40]:
If you're going in and there's a room and it's engulfed in flames, you're not going to. Just going to like.
Phillip [00:58:45]:
You still hearing him bark or anything?
Anatoliy [00:58:48]:
Oh, my God.
Mike [00:58:51]:
Why are you scaring the little.
Phillip [00:58:53]:
Yeah, I'm just saying, if there is a chance I'm going in.
Andrey [00:58:57]:
See, most people, if you don't hear.
Phillip [00:59:00]:
Anything and you think it's done to.
Andrey [00:59:01]:
Risk your life for someone you don't know, most people would say that person is generous. But to risk your life, let's say, for your child, most people wouldn't say that is generous. Would you agree with that?
Phillip [00:59:13]:
I think that's the instinctual thing of like a mom or a dad, the way that they describe those instincts.
Andrey [00:59:17]:
I think most parents would do that.
Phillip [00:59:19]:
I think that's built into you. That's the responsibility that you take, correct. When you do have that, like, that's your kid, correct? Your dog, whatever it is, I'm going.
Eldar [00:59:28]:
To bring an example. It's not running into a burning building, okay? But I'm going to tell you the example nonetheless. We're camping and there was a big fire there in front of us and we're drinking and I'm putting a little bit of. Little bit of drunk or whatever. And we had candles around the fire as well.
Mike [00:59:45]:
Right? And at some point either I knocked.
Eldar [00:59:50]:
It over or whatever by accident and it went all over Archie's tail.
Mike [00:59:57]:
And I was like, oh, shit, he's.
Eldar [00:59:59]:
About to feel the burn. It's going to hurt him a lot. So I knew this and I didn't want him to feel the pain. So I went and I used my hands to wipe the wax off and I burned my hands to do this. And he didn't get hurt. He was fine. Thank God. Thank God he had hair, a lot of hair on his tail, as you can see.
Mike [01:00:15]:
Right.
Eldar [01:00:15]:
So it didn't really penetrate that, but I went and did it mindlessly. In that moment, I had no chance to even think of what I'm going to do.
Mike [01:00:24]:
I just did it.
Eldar [01:00:26]:
And obviously I ended up with burned hands, but I wanted to make sure that he was okay and he was perfectly fine. So that's what kind of like propelled me to be okay and I was okay with my burned hands.
Andrey [01:00:35]:
So that's courageous, right?
Phillip [01:00:38]:
You would say, I think that's instinctual.
Eldar [01:00:40]:
I think that's instinctual.
Anatoliy [01:00:42]:
Yeah. You're like Archie's protector, you know what I'm saying?
Phillip [01:00:46]:
So I think of that.
Eldar [01:00:47]:
I think I did that out of like, I'm this. Yeah, I don't care. Nothing hurts, nothing burns. Actually, you mentioned it hurt like crazy.
Phillip [01:00:56]:
So I think if you're like wax, if that wasn't your dog, if that was me watching that, or like, say if it's a random person, right? And they did that same thing, I would say like, wow, this person is like a lover of dogs or they have some kind of deep appreciation for this animal at some degree because there's no way that that person would do that same thing because to me then that would have to be more of like a courageous act or there's some type of love or affection for people. Somebody. To me, there's certain people who are more humanitarian, like, I'm more giving, and there's certain people who love certain things. Like certain people love dogs or cats. If I saw a cat or a dog, I would definitely help it, even if it wasn't mine. I can understand if somebody didn't like animals.
Andrey [01:01:37]:
A human, you wouldn't, right?
Phillip [01:01:38]:
No, human.
Andrey [01:01:39]:
Also, what if you didn't know them or it was inconvenient for you?
Mike [01:01:42]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:01:43]:
If somebody's dying and I had the ability to try to help them, yeah. I would feel really bad if I couldn't help.
Andrey [01:01:48]:
For example, let's say you're in whatever, like a zoo or something, and somebody, let's say you're walking by and let's say someone falls in, like an older person falls in to the, say there's a lake there, right.
Eldar [01:02:00]:
Or something.
Andrey [01:02:01]:
And let's say someone falls in and you're like 30ft away. Would you jump in and try to save that person if you didn't know them?
Phillip [01:02:10]:
In a random lake?
Andrey [01:02:11]:
In a lake?
Phillip [01:02:12]:
Yeah, there's no, like, tigers or anything in the lake?
Anatoliy [01:02:14]:
Well.
Andrey [01:02:17]:
It was a lake.
Anatoliy [01:02:18]:
Like, it was a lake.
Andrey [01:02:19]:
Let's say it was an elderly person and you just saw that. Oh, you just saw them.
Mike [01:02:22]:
Boom. They fell in. Would you run away and jump in.
Andrey [01:02:25]:
Or would you think about it, or would you just keep walking?
Mike [01:02:28]:
There's a regular lake.
Phillip [01:02:29]:
It's a lake, yeah, 100%.
Mike [01:02:32]:
What if you don't know how to swim?
Phillip [01:02:35]:
I don't think you think about that, but I happen to know how to swim, so I can answer for myself in that. But if I didn't know, I don't know, I'd have to think about it.
Anatoliy [01:02:44]:
Yeah. I thought you were going to bring up.
Eldar [01:02:46]:
I thought he was going to bring up.
Anatoliy [01:02:48]:
If he, like, somebody falls into, like.
Phillip [01:02:50]:
A crocodile would consider more thinking, because if I'm there, there was crocodile, and to me, I'm seeing a kid in a lion chamber, whatever you want to call it, lion Tank. And then I know that there's going to be professionals around there. What's the probability that I'm going to be able to go in there and save that baby or somebody else who's trained in the tigers or lions is going to be able to do that? To me, that would require probably more of an initial kind of thought versus if it's just a random lake I'm jumping in 100%, no question. There's nothing holding me back.
Mike [01:03:21]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:03:21]:
If we were in the Amazon forest, then probably I wouldn't jump into a lake.
Mike [01:03:24]:
Let's say no one else was there.
Andrey [01:03:26]:
Then let's say you were there and you saw a child, not your child, go into one of the hippopotamus chambers or whatever. I don't know if they eat humans or, like, a tiger. I've been actually watching, and there's no one else there. Would you jump in or.
Mike [01:03:44]:
No?
Phillip [01:03:44]:
That's a tough one, because I know that that animal can maul you easily. Like, a hippopotamus is the type of animal that it's going to kill you with one bite. That thing is going to absolutely snap you in half.
Mike [01:03:58]:
Yeah.
Andrey [01:03:58]:
You would consider that.
Phillip [01:03:59]:
So to me, that's more of like, all right, in the moment decision. I think right now, if you're thinking.
Eldar [01:04:07]:
About it in that moment, I don't think you're going.
Phillip [01:04:09]:
I think most people, that's more of a thinking one.
Andrey [01:04:12]:
I think most people don't know how they would react, but probably most people wouldn't, unless it was their child or something.
Phillip [01:04:18]:
So I had a situation that happened to me by my house. So I saw a baby deer, and it was in the water by me, like in the Hudson river. And we saw that it was, like, struggling, and all these people were coming next to it on the fence. There's, like, a walkway, and then there's the actual water, but there's, like, a fence separating you from that. So there's, like, pier 115, and then there's the walkway by me, and then there's the water. This deer probably had to jump over the fence and kind of do something. So, long story short, they called the state, like, whoever does animal rescue or whatever, right? So they came and they were saying that they couldn't get out there. They didn't have the equipment to get out there because it was low tide.
Phillip [01:04:59]:
They were saying that because it was low tide, that if you go in there, it's like quicksand.
Eldar [01:05:04]:
Oh, shit.
Phillip [01:05:05]:
I didn't know this.
Eldar [01:05:05]:
Oh, shit.
Phillip [01:05:06]:
So I then see another rescue boat. It was, like, from New York, and they couldn't get close to it because it's low tide. Like, because it's like a foot or two.
Eldar [01:05:17]:
That they know you had a long rope and you knew how to lasso because you used to be a farmer.
Phillip [01:05:22]:
So if you had this. So pier 115 has this on a rope with the life server thing.
Eldar [01:05:28]:
There you go.
Phillip [01:05:29]:
So I guess nobody, I guess, realized this and didn't use it at the time or didn't have access to it or didn't know.
Mike [01:05:35]:
Right?
Phillip [01:05:36]:
So in my head, I'm thinking that I'm going to jump the fence, and I'm going to try to save the deer. I'm thinking this in my head. And I guess the reason that I was hesitant was because you just got those shoes. Oh, no. I was relying on the state and the other people. And I'm sitting there and I'm saying, like, yo, okay. I'm waiting for this person to help, and it's taking so long, and I'm watching them not do anything, and I'm still seeing this thing suffer. So in my head, I'm seeing the boat not be able to get there.
Phillip [01:06:04]:
I'm seeing them not working, and in my head, I'm still like, yo, what the fuck? I should jump over and do something. And I didn't, and I felt very guilty that I didn't, but then I found out, so I called the main guy, whatever it is. I found out, like, bergen county, and I called this guy.
Eldar [01:06:18]:
I just shot it.
Phillip [01:06:19]:
And I was like, yo, the people that came over here, they're like 270 year old women. They had no fucking idea what they're doing. I was like, yo, we just watched a deer die. It was very traumatic experience for everybody watching it. I was like, you guys aren't prepared.
Eldar [01:06:29]:
He died?
Phillip [01:06:30]:
Yeah, 100%. 100%. And we saw it struggle go to its death. Everybody's just watching.
Mike [01:06:36]:
It was sinking.
Phillip [01:06:37]:
Sinking, yeah, sinking slowly. He said that if I tried to go in there, the chances of me getting out were very, very low because of the low tide and how the quicksand.
Eldar [01:06:46]:
He said like that?
Phillip [01:06:47]:
Yeah, he said if you tried to get in there myself, he said the chances of you getting out were very low. So I said, what happens if it's like a baby? What's the protocol if it's like a human? He's like, well, we have different protocol for stuff like that, so animals aren't valued like that. High, basically confirmed.
Eldar [01:07:02]:
But he said it's not worth the risk.
Phillip [01:07:04]:
It's not worth the risk. He's saying they would have to do what you did and kind of lasso out the baby and do something like that. But they don't have, like, a helicopter or anything ready. To me, they should have one of those little rowboats or like, something.
Eldar [01:07:15]:
I thought somebody with a rope around their waist go there, something. It would pull them out.
Phillip [01:07:19]:
That's what I thought. So to me, the deer is not heavily valued, and they don't have a set thing in place. But I'm basing it off of him telling me this now, I don't know if he's just trying to tell me that, to say, okay, I'm going to try to save my own ass, because our people could have done this. But what do you think about that type of level of quicksand?
Eldar [01:07:43]:
That's an interesting scenario.
Mike [01:07:44]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:07:45]:
See, that I don't know, because I didn't do enough research to know for sure if that's what it is.
Mike [01:07:49]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:07:49]:
But if that's the case, I guess I understand to a got.
Eldar [01:07:53]:
I got a story about this. Yeah, I got a story about this.
Mike [01:07:56]:
This kind of thing. And this involved Dennis.
Mike [01:08:00]:
Oh, yeah.
Eldar [01:08:01]:
You remember this, Mike?
Mike [01:08:02]:
I was going to use that example, but I don't want to.
Eldar [01:08:04]:
I completely forgot about it. Remember the storm?
Mike [01:08:09]:
Irene, maybe?
Mike [01:08:11]:
Irene, I don't know. 2008, maybe.
Phillip [01:08:15]:
Oh, a long time ago.
Eldar [01:08:15]:
It was a crazy storm, right. That happened to hit us, whatever. And the whole New Jersey beaches got fucked up. Right?
Mike [01:08:24]:
Crazy.
Eldar [01:08:24]:
So right after that, Sandy. Oh, was it Sandy?
Phillip [01:08:28]:
Sandy, 2008?
Eldar [01:08:29]:
Yeah, Sandy, maybe.
Mike [01:08:31]:
No, it wasn't a snowstorm. It was a rainstorm.
Mike [01:08:32]:
It was a rainstorm. Yeah.
Phillip [01:08:33]:
Rain down the shore of South Jersey.
Mike [01:08:35]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:08:36]:
So we would go to this place with the kids with. Totally. You remember going there?
Mike [01:08:42]:
No. You do remember that, right?
Eldar [01:08:43]:
We used to go there and jump off of a cliff into the water to dive. It's like a small little. What? Creek river?
Mike [01:08:49]:
It was Creek. Creek. Creek waterhole.
Mike [01:08:53]:
Waterhole, yeah.
Eldar [01:08:55]:
Used to be a mining hole.
Mike [01:08:57]:
Mining iron.
Eldar [01:08:57]:
100 years ago, they used to mine iron or whatever out of it. I don't know. So we go over there, and usually it's a small, little. Nice little waterfall that goes into a nice little hole. Beautiful scenery. Or we just bathe in it, pretty much jump down and chill. We go over there after the storm. Sandy, and, bro, the waterfall is the size of this room.
Mike [01:09:21]:
Okay?
Eldar [01:09:22]:
Coming down. Looks crazy. The waterhole is humongous now, and the whole shit looks like fucking foaming bath bubbles bubbling up like this nonstop. Dennis goes, yo, that looks sick.
Mike [01:09:37]:
I can't wait to get in.
Eldar [01:09:39]:
And I'm like, yo, that doesn't look good. That looks pretty crazy.
Mike [01:09:43]:
You know what mean?
Eldar [01:09:44]:
Like, and I know Dennis is not a strong swimmer, so I'm like, wait a second. I'm responsible for this kid. I brought him here.
Mike [01:09:50]:
You know what he's know?
Eldar [01:09:52]:
I'm like, let me go in there.
Mike [01:09:53]:
First to see how it is.
Eldar [01:09:55]:
And we actually had Roman on the fucking. Roman was there, and he's the army guy. I'm like, yo, Roman, this doesn't look like. Whatever. He's like, I have a rope or something.
Mike [01:10:04]:
You know what I mean?
Eldar [01:10:05]:
Some fucking little ass rope.
Mike [01:10:06]:
Fishing line.
Eldar [01:10:07]:
The fishing line. I'm like, what? I'm like, all right, well, I'm going to go in anyway because Dennis was really wanted to go in there.
Mike [01:10:12]:
It was amped up.
Eldar [01:10:13]:
It was amped up. I was like, yo, I'm a stronger swimmer. Let me go test the water and see what's up, bro. I get undressed and I jump in, my man. I almost lost my life within 10 seconds. I get in, and that motherfucker is so strong underneath, it's like a propeller bringing you down. Oh, shit. Like a constant undertow because the waterfall is so big next to it, right? Hitting down, that pressure is whirling the whole fucking thing.
Eldar [01:10:44]:
Wow. I'm swimming like a fucking madman. Mike's like, you're right.
Mike [01:10:49]:
Did you see that?
Andrey [01:10:52]:
Archie got so mad when she was.
Anatoliy [01:10:54]:
Like, moving around on top of him. Archie's laying here and he's growling at her, right? Because she keeps going. And she went on top of him, and he gets up to lift, and.
Eldar [01:11:05]:
He lifts her in the air. Wow.
Anatoliy [01:11:08]:
Her body is on top of his.
Eldar [01:11:09]:
You took a video of her body's on top of.
Andrey [01:11:13]:
I think I got everything.
Anatoliy [01:11:14]:
He's lifting her up.
Mike [01:11:16]:
I was trying to just make her.
Anatoliy [01:11:17]:
Sit so she doesn't like it fell backwards on me.
Eldar [01:11:19]:
Oh, wow.
Mike [01:11:20]:
Come on.
Phillip [01:11:21]:
Wait, so you're swimming?
Eldar [01:11:22]:
So I'm swimming, Philip, like a madman. Mike is like, yo, bro, you okay? You watching me, like, struggle?
Mike [01:11:30]:
He's watching me struggle.
Eldar [01:11:31]:
So he's worried. I'm like. I'm trying to say I'm not okay. I'm waving my hand like, yo, I'm done. Don't come in here kind of thing. You know what I mean? Mike already sees that I'm drowning. He jumps in. Let's examine that.
Eldar [01:11:45]:
He jumps fucking. I'm going under. I'm drinking mad water, bro. I'm sinking. I'm thinking, I'm done. I'm dead.
Mike [01:11:55]:
I don't know how it happened.
Eldar [01:11:56]:
A miracle. I grab onto the rock or something. I finally touched some wall, and I fucking grabbed onto like a madman, bro. I'm hanging on to the shit. I turn around, I'm like, don't jump in. My eyes are fucking bulging out of my sockets, bro. I'm like, yo, I almost died. And I'm seeing Mike is inside the fucking water trying to fucking help me out.
Eldar [01:12:15]:
I'm like, holy shit. I'm like, Mike, go over there. Go as far as possible from this fucking shit. He fucking struggles his way through, also grabs onto the branch in the fucking wall and climbs out of the shit, bro. Almost lost my life there, bro.
Mike [01:12:28]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:12:29]:
If Dennis would have jumped in.
Eldar [01:12:33]:
No, I jumped in. I said, look, don't jump in. I'm going to test it because I'm a stronger swimmer, and I almost lost my life.
Mike [01:12:40]:
Mike jumps in.
Eldar [01:12:41]:
Mike, what was that?
Mike [01:12:42]:
I'm jumping in. I don't know this, but he told me as I'm jumping in, he's already out.
Eldar [01:12:48]:
Yeah, I'm already on.
Mike [01:12:49]:
So basically, for me, I was like, yo, I was in the moment, like, yo, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. You look, it was hard to say.
Eldar [01:12:56]:
And Mike's actually, there used to be a lifeguard.
Mike [01:12:59]:
I'm probably the best swimmer. He's probably the best, you know? So I jump in, and right away, I'm not. No chance I'm helping elder, obviously, because this shit was out of control, bro.
Eldar [01:13:09]:
You have to fight it like a fucking madman. But I stay up.
Anatoliy [01:13:12]:
So Mike is proficient in swimming in rivers and in hot sauce as well.
Mike [01:13:17]:
But what happened was, I don't remember exactly what happened, but I got pulled. Like, it's basically trying to drown you. But somehow I reached a place where I would escape that spin, and I was able to get out of it, and that's what was able to swim to the thing. But initially, I started panicking, and I was like, yo, I can't panic. And I remembered I know how to swim. Hold your breath and don't fucking know.
Eldar [01:13:41]:
That was, I think, an example of Mike being courageous. Like, I'm just going to do this.
Mike [01:13:45]:
And whatever happens, happens.
Phillip [01:13:48]:
You don't think that's instinctual?
Eldar [01:13:51]:
I don't know, Mike. Why'd you jump in?
Mike [01:13:54]:
You're my boy.
Eldar [01:13:55]:
I know.
Phillip [01:13:56]:
So wouldn't that fall under instinctual?
Andrey [01:14:00]:
I think it's part instinctual because it's.
Phillip [01:14:02]:
Not based off of the connection.
Mike [01:14:03]:
Meditated.
Andrey [01:14:04]:
Pardon?
Phillip [01:14:04]:
Because you're not a random person. So to me, it's the connection of your level of connection. If it was a stranger, you might not have done this.
Eldar [01:14:12]:
Probably.
Mike [01:14:13]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:14:14]:
No, I don't know.
Mike [01:14:15]:
I don't know if I would have done it.
Mike [01:14:16]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:14:16]:
That's what I'm saying. You don't know. But for sure, your level of connection and friendship, he values that. So to me, that goes back to the moral thing that we were talking about if somebody has a certain type of love or affection or moral obligation to something. I think it would fall more under.
Eldar [01:14:33]:
When I realized how bad it was. My whole thing. As soon as I started getting out, I was like, yo, nobody jump in. This is extremely dangerous. When I saw Mike in there, I was like, yo, this is crazy. Like, holy shit.
Anatoliy [01:14:48]:
And then Mike come out. Well, it wasn't that bad, probably.
Mike [01:14:51]:
Yeah, it wasn't that bad.
Mike [01:14:54]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:14:54]:
He's like, oh, yeah, it wasn't that bad.
Eldar [01:14:57]:
I got lucky because I was swimming against it straight. He probably went around a little bit.
Mike [01:15:04]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:15:04]:
For me, it was. The scarier part was jumping in. That was more scary because I didn't know what to expect. Once I got in, I was like, yo, it's not that bad. It was, for a second, it was bad. I was like, yo, because I have.
Eldar [01:15:16]:
Not returned to that place ever since.
Mike [01:15:17]:
I think we went there, but we never swam. Went to see it because it was a nice place.
Eldar [01:15:22]:
It was a nice place, but it was crazy.
Mike [01:15:24]:
Yeah, that was a crazy experience. But I just thought about something about this protection. You guys started talking about the shooter, about protecting the dog. So last week or whatever. Yeah, last week when I was sick, I come outside to walk Teddy, like.
Mike [01:15:41]:
Around 06:00 p.m. And at first my.
Mike [01:15:45]:
One neighbor comes up to me, he goes, yo, be careful. Coyotes, bears, coyotes in the area and, like, in the backyard pretty much, yeah.
Eldar [01:15:55]:
I think about this scenario as well, because ever since you see the bears and coyotes and stuff, I'm like, what am I doing? Yeah, I'm looking for sticks. I'm hitting them over the head.
Mike [01:16:04]:
That's in my head to protect the dogs 100%.
Eldar [01:16:07]:
Catherine ran away from a coyote the other day.
Mike [01:16:10]:
Really? Yeah.
Andrey [01:16:11]:
You saw one?
Eldar [01:16:13]:
We see them all the time. How close she saw them? Probably like 150ft.
Andrey [01:16:18]:
Coyotes are serious.
Katherine [01:16:20]:
Yeah, my other neighbor was in the same place.
Mike [01:16:23]:
Kids. Yeah. Oh, wow.
Eldar [01:16:25]:
We see them all, especially wintertime. They always pass them through our yard.
Anatoliy [01:16:27]:
I've definitely seen them, like, run across the street.
Andrey [01:16:30]:
I was by Mike's house in that hike. It was like a waterfall.
Eldar [01:16:34]:
Flooded rivers.
Andrey [01:16:35]:
You can go there, you know, right next to.
Eldar [01:16:36]:
Yeah, Mike. So go ahead.
Mike [01:16:38]:
So I come out, my one neighbor goes, yo, be careful. This okay? Like, I don't have anything on me. I don't even have my cell phone on me because I try not to carry. So, like, if something happens, I can't even call nobody. So I'm walking, one guy tells me, then I walk another, and then another guy, another neighbor tells me, like, yo, it was Greg. And then his dad, because Greg was leaving, he starts telling me this. And then I woke up to Greg's house. His dad's like, yo, be careful.
Mike [01:17:02]:
He's like, they live right behind my house here in the, like, yeah, they're probably mating season. They're probably having a baby. They're protecting. I'm like, yo, babies and fucking coyotes. Like any animal, they're going to fuck you up no matter what because they have to protect their kids.
Eldar [01:17:17]:
That's right.
Mike [01:17:18]:
So I'm like, all right. So I'm walking, and the whole time all I'm doing is in my head is playing out scenarios how I have to fucking defend my dog. I said, I give my hand first and then try to grab him because I know how to grab Teddy by the collar, grab him by the neck if he comes at me, and then grab him the other, thinking, we're not.
Anatoliy [01:17:42]:
Going to grab it. You got to kick that motherfucker or kick.
Mike [01:17:44]:
Yeah, I'm thinking about a million scenarios. I'm like, yo, I got a fucking bb gun or something. Or like, I went online and went Amazon. Like a special spray that's against coyotes but doesn't hurt dogs. I started researching this because I had to walk to the guy.
Mike [01:18:00]:
No.
Eldar [01:18:00]:
Yeah, but you think about these types of scenarios, and obviously we talk about courage. What are we doing? Are we running? Are we sacrificing our dogs? Are we fighting?
Mike [01:18:09]:
But I went. I got educated. I read that these coyotes like, what you need to do. Right. Also, there's certain seasons where you have to behave differently. So if it's mating season, you act a certain way. If it's not mating season, you act a different way.
Eldar [01:18:23]:
Really?
Mike [01:18:23]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:18:23]:
That's crazy.
Mike [01:18:24]:
Yes.
Eldar [01:18:24]:
You have to know the mating seasons, though.
Mike [01:18:26]:
Well, yeah, this just ended. Just read up on it.
Mike [01:18:33]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:18:33]:
So that was one of the scenarios where I was walking around and maybe in a state of thinking, like, predailing out scenarios if I get attacked, if Teddy gets attacked, because also I may be able to do something, but then I have to worry that he doesn't go try to attack him because his natural instinct is also to fight and defend. Like, I don't want him to get hurt.
Eldar [01:18:54]:
That's right.
Mike [01:18:55]:
I love him, and I don't want him to get hurt by this.
Eldar [01:18:56]:
That's right.
Mike [01:18:57]:
He chased a bear, bro. He chased a bear.
Eldar [01:18:59]:
That's wild.
Mike [01:19:00]:
He's a killer.
Katherine [01:19:01]:
Let me tell you the fear that courses through your body. I actually saw the coyote. I was by myself. I'm with my mom. What do you call that? Anxious. She's older, she's not doing Archie. And I'm holding Penny, and I'm like, I'm going to turn around, tell my mom that there's a coyote right over there by the hydrant. And my mom is going to freak out.
Katherine [01:19:31]:
The dogs might chase the coyote. Or like, I want to go there. My mom is going to freak out. She's going to trip over these dogs. So you have to act in the moment. It's so scary because you think about scenarios about what do I do, what's going to happen.
Anatoliy [01:19:45]:
Yeah, but I don't think. Do you think a coyote would approach two people and two dogs?
Eldar [01:19:49]:
You don't know.
Anatoliy [01:19:51]:
I think that motherfucker is going to be scared.
Mike [01:19:53]:
No, coyotes are generally scared of humans, but during mating season they're not.
Katherine [01:19:59]:
Also, in the past when we've seen them literally.
Eldar [01:20:05]:
Babe, remember.
Katherine [01:20:08]:
When they were walking, the Jews, they're hunting.
Eldar [01:20:12]:
I mean, they ate my neighbor's dog, bro.
Mike [01:20:17]:
They ate it. I saw a fucking, like, I sent that picture. There was a deer bone this big around the corner from my house. Like, these guys are out there was careful. What, the deer bone?
Eldar [01:20:29]:
Oh, yeah, send that picture. You saw that?
Mike [01:20:31]:
You guys see that? Yeah, a big one.
Eldar [01:20:35]:
But they're super necessary. You see, they control the population of deer.
Mike [01:20:38]:
No, I get that. So they're out there, bro. They're around the corner from my house and not in the woods, just like on the side street. I was constantly walking.
Eldar [01:20:48]:
And her instinct, too. First thing, she saw a deer off the leash. She jetted.
Mike [01:20:53]:
Gone.
Mike [01:20:54]:
Yeah, gone.
Katherine [01:20:56]:
Chasing after these creatures.
Mike [01:20:58]:
Yeah, he also will chase. But you don't know what to expect. You don't know how many there are. You don't know anything. You don't want him to get hurt. So you have to think about it, be careful. Think about what could happen. How are you going to defend yourself with a leash and a fucking.
Eldar [01:21:14]:
So courage has a thin line between selflessness and what? Stupidity?
Mike [01:21:23]:
Yeah, probably.
Mike [01:21:26]:
But the selfishness gets the highlight, though.
Eldar [01:21:30]:
Selflessness.
Mike [01:21:31]:
Selflessness gets the highlight in it.
Mike [01:21:33]:
Yeah, it does get the highlight because it's.
Mike [01:21:38]:
Because paying tribute to the person for sacrificing whatever.
Eldar [01:21:40]:
Sacrificing themselves of whatever. For the greater good.
Mike [01:21:45]:
For another thing, for a different cause.
Eldar [01:21:47]:
Different. Like, I don't know, my example of trying to save Archie's tail from this hot wax. I didn't find that courageous. I just found that extinction. Like, I needed to protect him in that moment, but I knew I was going to burn myself. I just didn't want him to feel the pain.
Mike [01:22:10]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:22:14]:
You wanted to save me.
Mike [01:22:16]:
You jump in that water, that's an.
Eldar [01:22:17]:
Act of definitely courage.
Mike [01:22:19]:
Thank you. Yeah.
Mike [01:22:20]:
That was before you guys met. No, it wasn't.
Eldar [01:22:27]:
He told me.
Katherine [01:22:27]:
He's like, I thought I was going to.
Eldar [01:22:30]:
Bro, I have a picture. I still have a picture from that day.
Mike [01:22:33]:
Wait, this was 2008.
Katherine [01:22:35]:
Save Dennis.
Eldar [01:22:36]:
Yeah, I did it.
Katherine [01:22:38]:
Throw himself.
Mike [01:22:39]:
Dennis would have went in 100%. He would never made it out. Yeah, he wouldn't have made it.
Katherine [01:22:43]:
Oh, my God.
Mike [01:22:43]:
He's mad dumb and he's terrible. Shout out, Denis.
Mike [01:22:48]:
For a second. I forgot.
Mike [01:22:50]:
Full circle. But he doesn't really listen to this way.
Mike [01:22:52]:
You know what I mean?
Mike [01:22:55]:
Yeah. I don't think Dennis would have made it out if he were jumping, because I don't think he's a good, strong swimmer now that he goes to the beach.
Eldar [01:23:01]:
I was a hair away, bro. I drank so much water. I don't understand.
Mike [01:23:05]:
Really?
Mike [01:23:05]:
Wow. I don't remember.
Mike [01:23:06]:
I don't remember drinking any water, maybe.
Eldar [01:23:09]:
Yeah, my eyes are bulging out of my sockets, bro.
Mike [01:23:11]:
I do remember I was trying to swim mad hard. I'm like, yo, I'm not going anywhere. What the fuck?
Mike [01:23:15]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:23:15]:
Then I was stuck. I have to regroup because the fucking.
Eldar [01:23:19]:
Swimming is not, you know, so you calm down. I did not calm down, bro. I was like a madman. I was like, I need to grab onto something. So I don't know. Was I courageous when I jumped into.
Mike [01:23:31]:
That water for Dennis? Maybe. Stupid. No, that was.
Phillip [01:23:36]:
I think you were trying to be considerate.
Mike [01:23:39]:
No, he was being, like, a hotshot, maybe.
Mike [01:23:44]:
Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:23:50]:
No, because you were doing it for.
Phillip [01:23:51]:
Somebody else's possible safety.
Eldar [01:23:53]:
That's what I'm saying.
Phillip [01:23:53]:
No, I think that's a generous consideration.
Katherine [01:23:55]:
But I think it is also fair, as just with common sense to look at that water. And it doesn't look like it usually, because this is not the first.
Mike [01:24:05]:
He got confirmation.
Katherine [01:24:06]:
Wait a second. We've had some bad weather. That's foaming. That looks funny. Let's stay out of that.
Phillip [01:24:11]:
No, but he got confirmation from the other guy who was supposed to be the army guy. So you got confirmation from him in this story.
Mike [01:24:19]:
I have a rope.
Eldar [01:24:21]:
You saw this rope, my man. He pulled out the rope.
Mike [01:24:23]:
What the hell is this?
Katherine [01:24:24]:
And then what happened to the rope?
Eldar [01:24:26]:
This is the size of the rope. But he said, bro, this is mass strong. Trust me.
Phillip [01:24:29]:
But did that not give you a little confidence?
Mike [01:24:30]:
It did.
Phillip [01:24:31]:
Okay. So I'm saying, if that guy was not there, you probably would not have went in on your own.
Eldar [01:24:38]:
I did not know what I was facing against. When I got in the water, I realized that that little rope, whoever was like, there was no chance.
Mike [01:24:46]:
I was done.
Eldar [01:24:47]:
Where is he going to throw that rope?
Mike [01:24:49]:
That who, bro? That rope.
Mike [01:24:51]:
You can't even throw it, my man. The fishing line.
Anatoliy [01:24:54]:
The wind just going to blow back to you, bro.
Mike [01:24:57]:
It was so bad.
Eldar [01:24:58]:
Look at this.
Mike [01:24:58]:
Do you ever see that?
Eldar [01:25:00]:
Look at the baby.
Phillip [01:25:03]:
There was a movie, I think it was called, like, open water. Do you ever see this one when they're trapped in the ocean?
Katherine [01:25:08]:
No, I didn't see it, but I.
Phillip [01:25:10]:
Remember, I think the biggest level of hopelessness that you can feel is just in the middle of nowhere, of water.
Mike [01:25:16]:
Of water.
Phillip [01:25:17]:
There's nothing else. Just think of you or where you're at. Just on a big island, like, in the middle of nowhere with nothing. No island, no land, no nothing around you. And you just got, like, potential sharks and all this stuff driving around you. To me, that would be probably, like, my ultimate fear, where you have no hope and no nothing going on. I'd have to become, like, a professional. I don't know, some kind of.
Mike [01:25:43]:
Yeah, yeah.
Phillip [01:25:44]:
That, to me, would be the worst, but, yeah, being in the water like that.
Eldar [01:25:49]:
Guys, what are we talking about when it comes to courage, man? All right, let's talk about coming up to girls again.
Mike [01:25:54]:
Mike, did you need to have courage to go on that date with those.
Eldar [01:25:58]:
People, or did you just.
Mike [01:26:01]:
No, I was already in a state of mind. This is not going to shout out to kat.
Anatoliy [01:26:07]:
Yeah, you know what?
Katherine [01:26:08]:
I'm going to take some credit for that.
Mike [01:26:09]:
The comment pushed.
Eldar [01:26:10]:
Oh, you're going to take it?
Mike [01:26:11]:
The comment that cat did also. It pushed. Yeah, no, I don't think I was courageous. I don't think it was courageous. I don't know, in that thing. But coming up to a girly somewhere randomly, I don't know, that might take some. I can't say courage. I think it's just more educating in myself and seeing things for what it is.
Mike [01:26:46]:
And I guess, Polly, I think there's always disconnect between, you know, something and then you actually believe it. Bridging that gap is what I struggle with, because I know, like, yo, this ain't shit. It's not that serious. In theory, I can sit here all day and talk to you guys about it, but in the moment, I forget it, or I don't believe in it anymore. I don't know how to remind myself. So I think that's a scary thing.
Mike [01:27:13]:
Yeah.
Mike [01:27:13]:
So I think it's seeing things and calling things for what they are. And that is probably education is necessary there. But also self interest. Removing self interest maybe, too.
Eldar [01:27:30]:
How about courage?
Mike [01:27:31]:
Liquid, guys?
Katherine [01:27:32]:
Liquid courage.
Phillip [01:27:33]:
That's a real thing.
Mike [01:27:33]:
Sorry?
Mike [01:27:34]:
That's a real thing.
Eldar [01:27:35]:
I think I'm having some of it right now.
Mike [01:27:37]:
You know what I'm saying, Philip?
Phillip [01:27:38]:
That's definitely real.
Mike [01:27:39]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:27:40]:
Here we go. Why does liquid courage work in the first place?
Phillip [01:27:46]:
It almost guarantees that you put yourself in the line of fire.
Andrey [01:27:49]:
You get in a flow state. Anyone learning a new language, it's like a fact. If you drink alcohol, their language abilities improve.
Eldar [01:27:58]:
Yeah, they don't care because they don't care about me. Self sabotage. When you start thinking self sabotage, or they're going to think about me, you.
Phillip [01:28:07]:
Don'T care about the outcome.
Eldar [01:28:07]:
Drink a couple of things, like blah, blah, blah, whatever.
Mike [01:28:10]:
Yeah, you don't care.
Anatoliy [01:28:10]:
What I'm saying is that the fact of courage only exists when there's opportunity.
Mike [01:28:15]:
For fear to creep in.
Anatoliy [01:28:18]:
If you can avoid fear ever coming in, then there's no way to be scared, and then there's no need to be courageous.
Mike [01:28:32]:
Holy shit, guys.
Mike [01:28:35]:
Yeah, you're going to say it.
Eldar [01:28:36]:
You guys are going to fuck the society up with these fucking conclusions.
Mike [01:28:40]:
Yeah.
Eldar [01:28:40]:
You know what I'm saying? You like fucking nice hero stories. They used to give you, like, a.
Anatoliy [01:28:46]:
Little bit of, like, what is it called?
Eldar [01:28:49]:
Motivation. Inspiration. That's the next fucking. Another fucking bullshit out there. You know what I'm saying?
Anatoliy [01:28:57]:
We're killing courage now.
Eldar [01:28:59]:
Totally. What are you doing to us?
Phillip [01:29:00]:
I was like, Truman. Truman was a courageous guy. Let's watch the Truman.
Mike [01:29:09]:
Totally.
Eldar [01:29:09]:
You're going to have to say totally. You're saying bad shit right here. You're going to take courage is dead.
Mike [01:29:16]:
Say it like, we're a little bit more fucking up.
Phillip [01:29:18]:
Like, wait, I was going to order a pizza.
Mike [01:29:21]:
It's dead.
Eldar [01:29:23]:
What should we call that?
Mike [01:29:24]:
What? Those acts.
Eldar [01:29:29]:
I don't know.
Anatoliy [01:29:30]:
When sometimes stupidity beats logic, I guess. Well, yeah, I think you need to have a little bit of stupidity almost.
Mike [01:29:46]:
Right?
Anatoliy [01:29:48]:
It's just like an example. When we watch, I don't know, let's say, like, a Mike Perry fight, we're like, he's a little stupid. So that's an advantage on something, because he doesn't even get phased by the jokes or the media or stuff like that. Remember we were saying that? Or, like, Nick Diaz or whoever.
Eldar [01:30:08]:
Yeah, they don't care.
Mike [01:30:10]:
Certified.
Eldar [01:30:10]:
Don't even care.
Mike [01:30:11]:
No.
Eldar [01:30:12]:
Tony Ferguson?
Mike [01:30:12]:
No. Whoever? No.
Andrey [01:30:14]:
Or the people.
Anatoliy [01:30:14]:
Like. Like, he got completely bamboozled.
Mike [01:30:19]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:30:20]:
Wait, so what about Truman?
Mike [01:30:21]:
Right?
Phillip [01:30:21]:
So this whole time, he didn't know. Everybody's playing pretty much a joke on him. He's like, the experiment. Then he starts to understand and starts to realize, like, oh, shit, this is an experiment. I'm going to get out of here.
Eldar [01:30:34]:
Okay.
Phillip [01:30:35]:
But he doesn't realize how long he has to go on that boat. He didn't know that there was an end. He didn't know how to get out. So he had to make a courageous act.
Mike [01:30:45]:
Right?
Phillip [01:30:46]:
He didn't know how long he was going to be in that water, on the boat. As much as you can plan and plot to kind of get out of the system of being filmed, he didn't know how long it was going to take on that boat. And he kind of said that was like a 50 50 shot. So, to me, he was intelligent on the planning once he understood that there was something being played against him. But then when he was on the boat. But when he was on the boat, to me, he didn't care at that point. But don't you think that then he had to rely on Courage while he was on the boat going into the unknown?
Eldar [01:31:18]:
That's a very good question, man. I'm not sure if it's courage, Phil.
Mike [01:31:22]:
I think it was already, like, I don't care. Yeah.
Anatoliy [01:31:26]:
Anything is better than this.
Mike [01:31:28]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:31:29]:
So he's making a calculated decision.
Eldar [01:31:31]:
He was rated for suicide.
Phillip [01:31:32]:
So he's making a calculated decision to suicide, saying, hey, I know what's going on here.
Eldar [01:31:37]:
I'm done.
Phillip [01:31:38]:
They're putting me in this bubble. I'm done. I'm done. Now I'm smart enough where I got away from the camera. I faked my death where he put the pillows in the sleeping bag, so everybody thought he was still there. The guy realized it was a glitch. So you knew at that point, Truman knew he was being filmed and the gig was up.
Eldar [01:31:55]:
The gig was up.
Phillip [01:31:56]:
So now he planned and plotted. He got on the boat, he overcame his fear. Remember, they put that fear into him that he killed his dad on the seas or whatever, like that.
Mike [01:32:04]:
That was.
Eldar [01:32:05]:
I don't remember that scene anymore.
Phillip [01:32:06]:
So they scared him out of, like, being a water guy. So to me, having to go on the water, he already had to overcome that fear because he thought he killed his dad, but he really didn't. Then his dad came back and then start to piece it all together and realize probably. I didn't kill my dad. The water is not a thing. I'm really a boat guy. But to me, he didn't know how long you had to go out into the ocean, like, where he was going to end up. So I just didn't know if that was going to be courage or you're just, to your point, saying, I think, I don't care.
Eldar [01:32:32]:
It was a progress that he can't stop anymore. That's it.
Phillip [01:32:39]:
But you're willing to die. But you're willing to die.
Mike [01:32:41]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:32:42]:
So you don't think that there's any element of courage in that? Do you think that's pure stupidity?
Eldar [01:32:48]:
No, I don't think that's stupidity. I think that was very calculated.
Phillip [01:32:51]:
So you think that falls more into the line of intelligence carrying over into a situation that has potential unknown. You can't really plan for what he was there actually a plan where he knew in that boat, there's no way for him to really figure that out with the resources that he had. There's only a way for him to get on the boat. Was there a way for him to figure out that this place was actually like a wall and he can get out? And did he know this?
Mike [01:33:18]:
I don't think so, because he was.
Phillip [01:33:21]:
Walking at the end, like, I'm just discovering this for the first time. So to me, he was putting his life on the line. And where's the intelligence and stupidity? Where does that clash? Because he basically said, I'm willing to die.
Mike [01:33:35]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:33:36]:
So is that stupid or intelligent?
Eldar [01:33:38]:
No. I think that he's finally said to himself that this is not the life for me. I'm done with this life, and therefore I'm okay with the continuation. And if continuation is death, I'm okay with it.
Phillip [01:33:51]:
So is it almost.
Eldar [01:33:52]:
He didn't care what it's going to be. He was ready to face it. And I think it's not because he's courageous, it's because he's done. He's fed up.
Phillip [01:34:01]:
So to me, it sounds like more of an ego death where of, like, this character that was created as a result of all these fake things, he wants to kill this version of himself that was created by other people.
Eldar [01:34:12]:
Correct?
Phillip [01:34:12]:
That he was willing to kill?
Eldar [01:34:13]:
Yeah, I think so.
Phillip [01:34:14]:
So in order to try to walk through that door and get the love of his life and the new life, to me, it's like I'm willing to kill this version of myself to get my actual life.
Mike [01:34:22]:
Yeah.
Phillip [01:34:22]:
Does that make sense?
Eldar [01:34:23]:
Yeah, that makes sense. It's different.
Mike [01:34:25]:
I don't know if you call it courage, right?
Eldar [01:34:26]:
Yeah, I'm not sure if it's courage.
Phillip [01:34:28]:
Because when I watched it, I'm not.
Mike [01:34:29]:
Sure what it's called, but you know what it's called.
Eldar [01:34:31]:
You don't have a choice in the matter. It's called destiny.
Mike [01:34:34]:
Yeah. You don't have a choice to matter.
Mike [01:34:38]:
You know that. Matter. Whatever goes better than this, because this is not it. Where he came from, he cannot continue to do that. So whatever has coming is going to be better?
Eldar [01:34:48]:
Yeah, definitely.
Mike [01:34:49]:
Because then he has control of his own life. It.
90. Courage or Foolishness? Exploring Heroic Acts and Survival Instincts
Oct 06, 2023•2 hr 35 min•Ep. 90
Episode description
How do focus, experience, preparation, and knowledge influence the way we perceive and exhibit courage in various scenarios?
In the latest episode of the Dennis Rox podcast titled 'Courage or Foolishness? Exploring Heroic Acts and Survival Instincts', hosts Eldar and Mike, along with guests Andrey, Phillip, Anatoliy, and Katherine, embark on a thought-provoking exploration of courage, focus, and fear. The episode delves into how individuals can manage fear through concentration and preparation, separate from formal education. Guests shared personal stories where courage played a pivotal role, like Anatoliy's fast decision-making influenced by someone's medical expertise, and Eldar's dramatic tale of saving his dog from burning wax at the expense of his own safety. The group also examined the psychology of self-doubt and pressure, mentioning Eldar's approach to overcoming such obstacles. Key discussions included Mike and Anatoliy debate readiness versus courage, tactics for hypothetical dangerous scenarios such as active shooters, and the instinctual versus rational aspects of risking one's life for others – reflecting on both the psychological and practical elements of bravery. The episode ends with a nuanced debate on the nature of courage, questioning the line between heroic actions and recklessness. Throughout this intense exchange, this episode provided no clear answers but fostered a rich discussion about the essence of courage in various extraordinary circumstances.
Transcript
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