66. Ramana Maharshi's "Who Am I" vs Eldarism- a heated exchange

Denis [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode.

Eldar [00:00:01]:
So the individual was not using their mind. They're not supposed to understand what's actually going on because of the fact that you don't have explanations to your world. Your world is, who am I? Who am I? Who am I? Do you keep coming back to you, who am I? Bullshit. No, you don't. You don't do shit.

Denis [00:00:18]:
Philosophy works. Everything works. First of all, don't shit on everybody.

Vemir [00:00:25]:
Dennis, I got your point.

Eldar [00:00:27]:
You're just.

Vemir [00:00:28]:
You could lose people like that easily.

Eldar [00:00:32]:
Please, please don't leave us. We missed you.

Oleg C [00:00:36]:
I guess the difference what Dennis is saying is Eldar's like, yo, I have this way, you fucking idiot. Check it out. I don't think Elder, let me teach you, you dumb piece of shit. But then Dennis is like, yo, I found this way. I respect your way. Check out this other thing. Elder. Like, that's so stupid, bro.

Oleg C [00:00:51]:
When are you gonna learn the real shit?

Eldar [00:00:52]:
He only sends his wife here.

Vemir [00:00:55]:
Do you think that his.

Eldar [00:00:57]:
Do you think that shouldn't have done it?

Denis [00:00:58]:
It's what you just did. It's like. Yeah, yeah. Like, yo, we helped you wipe.

Eldar [00:01:07]:
Any.

Denis [00:01:07]:
Dilutes, any of the good that might come out. You've taken something fundamentally good, which there's.

Eldar [00:01:13]:
Plenty, turn into very bad.

Vemir [00:01:14]:
Sounds like religion.

Denis [00:01:16]:
Turn it into some sort of, like, non stop, incessant, competitive, like. Like elders, who's. Let's catch who's doing wrong today. I'm doing right today. Look at these people.

Eldar [00:01:33]:
The shit that doesn't work, doesn't work. That's what you have to react to.

Denis [00:01:37]:
It shows that actually what you're doing. I'm having a reaction. I'm trying to, like, talk. You just yelling.

Eldar [00:01:46]:
I'm not chilling. Oh, my bad, then.

Denis [00:01:48]:
I'm chilling, too. The point is, you.

Oleg C [00:01:51]:
You guys both chill really intensely. I never chilled like that, bro.

Eldar [00:02:05]:
This was six months ago. Okay, cool. Six months ago, we took a stab at this teaching called who am I? Right? And that's kind of the teaching that Dennis introduced us to. It's a way of. I'm not even sure what to say.

Vemir [00:02:18]:
You know what, Dennis?

Eldar [00:02:20]:
Can you describe a little bit? Can you chime in a little bit?

Vemir [00:02:22]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Denis [00:02:23]:
He's, you know, he was. He lived in the 18 hundreds, into the 19 hundreds. He had a. You know, he wrote a couple books. Actually, he didn't write anything. They just, like, recorded his. His discourse, like, him asking him, answering questions. He was, you know, looked at as, like, an enlightened sage or whatever you want to call it.

Denis [00:02:47]:
And he tried to his, this idea, who am I? Is his. He decided that that's his teaching to the world in terms of trying to simplify. His whole thing was like, we've made it way too complicated and it's actually much simpler, right? Like all the religions, all the stuff, they point to a specific thing regarding the mind and either calming it, taming it, getting rid of it in some way or another, everything points to that in different ways. And when we think less, we're, you know, it seems to be, have been proven that we're calmer where we have less anxiety. We, you know, when we're in a calmer state. So the overabundance of the thoughts causes stress, causes turmoil, cause bad decisions, and so on and so forth. So the idea here is, if you can understand that you are not the mind, and then it's just like, as if, like it's your arm, it's just your tool as any other body part, then you're able to use it when you need it. But it does not, it doesn't have to be this incessant non stop, 3000 thoughts a minute.

Denis [00:03:54]:
You should do this. You can call him that. And then through this process of who am I? And he describes it in that book, you can come back to the source, which is the soul. And then the mind calms down completely. And then you're able to be in a much more blissful space, freer space. And then you just act from your soul, your intuition, whatever, and then you're able to operate in the world without this incessant recorder going nonstop, whatever, not recording.

Vemir [00:04:25]:
So.

Eldar [00:04:26]:
And the goal is to get rid of the mind, if you understand, right?

Denis [00:04:29]:
Not to get rid of it, but if you inquire enough, calls it self.

Eldar [00:04:35]:
Inquiry into who you are, like the.

Denis [00:04:37]:
Self, and understand that it's not. You're not. The self is not the mind. Then it calms down and completely quiets down. So it's always there. You don't like, kill it, but you tame it completely.

Eldar [00:04:49]:
Okay.

Denis [00:04:49]:
So then it just becomes your. You're the master of it.

Eldar [00:04:53]:
I was under depression when we, last time we spoke that you mentioned that the goal of it is to actually get rid of the mind. Like, that's your whole journey, is to get rid of the mind. I guess I was wrong.

Denis [00:05:02]:
No, the goal is to. For it to be to shut it the fuck up.

Eldar [00:05:05]:
Right.

Denis [00:05:06]:
But I mean, you know, if I use that, I may have used it in terms of like.

Eldar [00:05:09]:
Like, that's why. That's why I put that on the board, like, I just wanted to simplify, like, what we.

Vemir [00:05:14]:
What I believe.

Eldar [00:05:14]:
Right.

Denis [00:05:15]:
Shut it.

Eldar [00:05:16]:
Shut it up would probably best. Yeah.

Denis [00:05:18]:
Dennis line.

Vemir [00:05:19]:
You can't. Are you looking. Are you looking to control the mind?

Denis [00:05:23]:
No, that's the point.

Oleg C [00:05:25]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:05:25]:
You're not controlling it. You just. You're letting it be.

Vemir [00:05:27]:
Shutting it up would be controlling it. What do you mean?

Denis [00:05:30]:
Well, yeah, again, so let me. Let me. Let me put. I guess if I can put it into one line, it would be.

Eldar [00:05:39]:
Self.

Denis [00:05:39]:
Inquiring enough into who you actually are. Like, who is the. I. Like, I am. I am this. I'm doing this. Like, who is that? And the connection for most people is that it's. I am up here.

Denis [00:05:53]:
And if you can inquire into who.

Vemir [00:05:54]:
You actually are, then the mind, as a consequence.

Denis [00:05:58]:
As a consequence, calms down. So you're not. Yeah. You're not getting rid of it, and you're not trying to control it, because that's impossible. But that deep understanding of who you actually are gives it no choice but to silence. So that's the idea. Not my idea, but that's that idea. And I do try it.

Denis [00:06:15]:
I've been using it for a couple years. Of course, I'm not enlightened, but it's. It helps me a lot with anxiety, with keeping calm, with understanding, you know?

Eldar [00:06:22]:
But.

Denis [00:06:22]:
But it's all. You know, it's just like anything. You have to do it a lot. You have to practice, you know?

Oleg C [00:06:27]:
So is it called who am I? Because you're basically trying to ask yourself the right questions to lead yourself to, like, understand that you like to not identify yourself as your mind. Identify yourself as kind of like you would. Like, this is my arm, but that's not me. Right. My mind. But that's not necessarily.

Denis [00:06:47]:
You're the pure consciousness living inside of this thing.

Oleg C [00:06:50]:
Right.

Denis [00:06:51]:
And this is just like, your vessel right now that you're using, you know? Well, I think that you wrote on.

Oleg C [00:06:56]:
The board, then they. I think they make that Dennis is.

Vemir [00:06:59]:
More token about this.

Eldar [00:07:00]:
Yeah. Now I'm hearing that a lot more.

Vemir [00:07:04]:
Right.

Eldar [00:07:04]:
That's my thing of, like, what we should do with the mind.

Vemir [00:07:06]:
Right.

Eldar [00:07:07]:
Trying to observe it the best way we could. Get to know your mind, understand how our mind works, and use it to our advantage. Right. Or becomes friends with it. That's how my understanding. And I guess what we differ, I guess, in. I guess, in the actual method of how to get there. Right.

Eldar [00:07:21]:
And I'm obviously a proponent of, like, logic, understanding reason.

Vemir [00:07:26]:
Right.

Eldar [00:07:27]:
Where he's saying, like, we don't need all that. All you have to do is this practice of who am I? And a literal practice of who am I is actually that all you sit there and all you do is just ask that one question, who am I? Who am I? Who am I? Which supposedly then, like he says, quiets it down and gets rid of it.

Vemir [00:07:43]:
Quiescence, I think, is the word he used.

Eldar [00:07:45]:
Yeah. So we had a hard time, so we sat down, right, because he wanted us to read the text, finally understand what. Where is he coming from? Me, Mike had totally sat down and we had a really hard time reading the text, right. And we're like, you know, it took us probably 2 hours to read it, trying to digest it. It was very complicated. So he, he then made another request and said, hey, send it to Vermeer. You know, eleven year, read it. You know, I mean, Vermeer could come and kind of break it down a little.

Eldar [00:08:09]:
Not. Yeah, so, not. Not to put you on the spot, but put you on the spot.

Vemir [00:08:15]:
I don't see that.

Eldar [00:08:17]:
Where are we at with this who am I thing and the mind?

Anatoliy [00:08:20]:
While.

Eldar [00:08:20]:
I mean.

Vemir [00:08:21]:
Yes, I mean, your summary was great. I disagree with everything on the board except Eldar's last sentence. Like, becoming friends with it, because getting to know your mind is just another exercise in going into an endless overthinking mess fit of nothing. Because you're trying to, like they say, it's like you're trying to grasp the ocean with a fork or not even giving the mind credit as the ocean. But it's the same, like analogy, right?

Eldar [00:08:53]:
You're disrespecting the mind by saying that you want to get to know.

Vemir [00:08:55]:
No, actually, the first thing I wanted to say is becoming friends with it.

Denis [00:09:00]:
Going food shopping.

Vemir [00:09:03]:
Whole foods on the side. So what is become? Why do I like becoming friends with the mind? Because like we said, you cannot control the mind. Osho has a really beautiful lecture on this about the nature of the mind, and I'll just share a little bit of that as like a preface. He says, the mind cannot be stopped. You try to stop the mind, maybe you can stop it for a moment, but it's going to come back with more force, you know, almost like you pressurized it. So it's going to explode more in many depths of psychology, like different circles of psychology, you know, they talk about repressing your emotions, repressing your thoughts, and it comes out and whatever else. That's just the mind's way of, I feel like organizing the world around it. I think the reason why we identify with our mind is because if you're born unconscious, or we can go into, like, whether kids are conscious or not doesn't matter.

Vemir [00:10:06]:
You are looking to survive. Like, someone who's not enlightened is trying to figure out the world to survive, to understand it. So I think the body does that, right? It responds physically to things. The mind does it too. It tries to compartmentalize, kind of put a framework of what the world's like. You can go. That's where I think the base of racist things come from, right? All blacks are like this, all Jews are like this, all whites are like this. That's a way for you to simplify the world in order to understand a little bit better.

Vemir [00:10:36]:
But it's not true, right? Like, a lot of the things the mind does are not true. And one of the things we do is identify with the mind. Like, I am armenian, I am japanese, I am a man. Stuff like that, that helps you kind of separate the mind. The mind is always trying to filter out information. There's, like, too much information in the world. So it's trying to, like, forget a lot, right? So it tries to create concepts, and identity is one of those concepts. But the thing is, is like comfort zones, right? I mean, that's the whole name of the game, right? But it's always scared.

Vemir [00:11:13]:
Like, it's always afraid to be looked at because you're gonna find out. It's all. So anyway, like, the nature of the mind is actually a beautiful thing. Osho says you should listen to the mind like, you listen to classical music, which was a really beautiful perspective, rather than us trying to clamp down on the mind. Hate that we're thinking so much stressed out. Stop, stop. You know, that kind of thing. Like, just watch what's happening without being attached.

Vemir [00:11:44]:
You don't listen to a note of music and think, I'm that music. It passes, the next piece comes. You might be emotionally risen, but it's like this way of watching. Such a brilliant, efficient mechanism. The brain is a beautiful thing. He criticized yogis because they stand on their head and stuff like that. That's a rush of blood to the brain. The brain might require a slow drip of blood just a little bit.

Vemir [00:12:16]:
That's how it functions. Functions on, you know, a small amount of matter does a lot. It's silent, like, you don't hear your brain running. It's amazing. Like machine that's working. So the mind being part of the intellect for some, as you can imagine, something that that powerful gone in the wrong direction causes a Ted Kaczynski right. Brilliant mind gone the wrong way. We could say.

Vemir [00:12:42]:
Who's to say it's wrong? I don't know. But it was destructive, right? It's not based on spiritual principles. Same thing with geniuses. They have quirks. It's like one thing pops in, another pops out. They're missing something. People who are autistic have an extreme in one end and missing something, maybe, right? So, like, extremely brilliant minds, I think, are a good example because they often descend into the worst madness, or something's wrong, and it just goes in the wrong direction. So I think that what seems clear to me, like, our idea about all this stuff.

Vemir [00:13:14]:
God, people like to use that enlightenment, awakening. It's kind of like maximizing the efficiency of your brain. Because if your brain is fighting your brain, like your mind is fighting your mind, you're going to be wasting energy. It's not efficient by nature. You're going to be caught up in cycles of thought. You're going to be caught up in, like, contradictory things, and you don't. I feel like an enlightened mind is extremely well organized, harmonized. It's almost like it's all integrated.

Vemir [00:13:48]:
So, like, there was one criticism of, like, scientists. Scientists are really concentrated and focused on one field of study. All the creativity is there. But then guess what? They haven't investigated on the world at large. So they just kind of trust society at large. So they've been criticized as just, like, not knowing about anything except their main subject, comparatively. So why we go back to enlightenment, which is what I think this text is about. It's not talking about how to get, you know, your ETF's higher or something like that.

Vemir [00:14:23]:
Like, I think it seems clear it's on the path of awakening. So why is he saying, who am I for awakening? Seems clear that, like, if you use this framework of where the direction of your mind is going, it could be on the typical status, sex, you know, power, relationships, all of these. Like, I'm gonna be the best soccer player. So everything in your mind, your whole world's framework, is centered on this goal. And I think he had a great analogy in the text. He said, like a spider from the inside, it makes its web, and then it sits in its own web. I think that was, like, a nice analogy to, like, our lives. Like, we have an idea, we have a dream, and we kind of get what we want out of the world and make our homes, make our relationships the way we want them to be, rather than kind of like, you don't go into a rainforest as an individual and say, I want to make this look like Newark or something like that.

Vemir [00:15:25]:
Like, a lot of people do, like, the bull Newark. They'll, like, bulldoze. You know, that's what. That's what we do. I think that's definitely part of it. One really nice quote about that is, like, society is just like a clearing in the forest, right? So all of this is to say is, instead of being the spider who's making a web and then sitting in the web, which means the mind is projecting outwards what it wants, it gets it. And then the mind has its own little environment that it conceptualized, which is based off of whatever principles. It's like you're directing all the power and focus of your mind into one point.

Vemir [00:16:05]:
Who am I? But it's a self destruction, right? Like, the mind is inquiring in itself, and it's actually realizing, like, okay, I'm not my arm, not my teeth. I'm not. And then you keep going backwards. What am I? Am I my thoughts now? My thoughts change. Am I armenian? Am I this? And then it's kind of like a removing of all the layers. That's his whole point, because I feel that he was trying to simplify it for people to have a starting point. I don't think this is the main method, the only method, whatever else. But it is kind of like cutting to the chase.

Vemir [00:16:38]:
I feel like he's saying, if you inquire, you'll discover that most of what you think is you or all of it is pretty much bullshit. And once you uncover these layers, you discover something that you never thought existed. Right. You discover something that this is what all the texts were talking about. And what is that? That's an experiential thing. That's something that is to be experienced.

Eldar [00:17:08]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:17:08]:
You have to experience.

Vemir [00:17:09]:
If I read a book about swimming, I wouldn't get it the whole time.

Denis [00:17:11]:
I can tell you how to swim all day long, and you just.

Vemir [00:17:13]:
You never swam. You like, right? So, like, what are you talking about? Exactly? Like, what does this mean? And you can't use words because it's not enough. Right? So, like we said, that bumper sticker, God is love this. That's true. Okay. But the text is also true. But what he said in the text is also saying that you can't read books forever. To understand these concepts, you have to.

Vemir [00:17:37]:
The books are part of your sensory perception, and it's about kind of going inside and uncovering what is there, which is kind of like, I say the next subject, what is that? It's after who am I? It's like, okay, it's none of that stuff. So who am I? And that's kind of the next framework. But I think I could kind of go through all of the things that I thought. But it's like, yeah, does that make sense? Like, my reflection.

Denis [00:18:05]:
Do you remember what. I guess because we talked about it recently. Do you remember what issues, you know, because from. From how I see it, is like.

Vemir [00:18:13]:
Yeah, I mean, now we were really.

Denis [00:18:15]:
Talking about discipline the other day, so I was. I mean, it's. Yeah, it could be similar, but it's different. So what I was gonna say is, what. Do you remember what, you had an issue.

Vemir [00:18:22]:
What was confusing in the text?

Eldar [00:18:29]:
A lot of it, especially the words when they used mind, the self, the true self. Right. Like, those things kind of were confusing. For on one hand, we were following. We're like, okay, he's talking about a true self of the observer, which I was okay with. And then he kind of flipped it on us. We're like, no, we need to remove the self. And I was like, wait, what? You know, like, it was.

Vemir [00:18:48]:
It was lowercase and uppercase.

Denis [00:18:51]:
He didn't say remove. I remember listening to you say no. Like, that was, yeah, the self is what he wants you to find.

Eldar [00:18:57]:
This was six months ago when we read it, and we definitely will confirm. But based on how you said it, I understood everything that you said.

Vemir [00:19:02]:
That's great. I mean, that's the essence of it, the battle.

Denis [00:19:05]:
So you understand the battle on battle between eldorism.

Vemir [00:19:10]:
I love that.

Denis [00:19:12]:
I coined that yesterday.

Vemir [00:19:13]:
While eldorism is great.

Denis [00:19:16]:
What's the other thing? I use the philosophy bubble. No, but Elder isn't gonna go in there. The main issue is that, well, these great sages to my left and right.

Vemir [00:19:35]:
I was waiting for what the adjective was.

Eldar [00:19:38]:
Use the right word. Creatures.

Vemir [00:19:39]:
No, no.

Denis [00:19:40]:
These sages, creatures, these enlightened beings, they're big proponents of logic and using the mind to solve, to figure out who you are. Using it. Right. The problem is, like, even in these kinds of. These kind of guys, I've heard this kind of analogy a couple times, and I agree with it. Trying to, like, for instance, if you have anxiety, right, that's a figment of your mind, right. It's causing you nonstop thoughts, nonstop obsessing shit, right. And so trying to use your mind to battle, let's say a problem like anxiety that most people, a lot of people have, right.

Denis [00:20:16]:
Is as good as, like, your house is on fire. And you go to the arsonist, say, can you help me find who set it on fire? He's the one that set it on fire.

Eldar [00:20:27]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Vemir [00:20:27]:
Okay.

Denis [00:20:28]:
It can't. It's not. It's always going to be in this perpetual loop of like. But they're false positives.

Vemir [00:20:35]:
You know, we often go to what we usually use to solve problems, right. The problem is the mind is the hammer, but you think everything is a.

Denis [00:20:43]:
Nail drill analogy with a discipline, remember?

Vemir [00:20:47]:
So speaking of drilling, like romance, right? So it's like.

Denis [00:20:56]:
By the way, very good podcast. Last one. You and Katherine and him.

Vemir [00:21:00]:
Oh, I'd love to hear about that. But they essentially like this. What Dennis is saying is obvious when it comes to romance, if you apply pure rationality and logic, you're going to fail. It's over. So that means that not everything in the world can be solved or done well with rationality. And then the mind might defend and say, well, only things that are worth exploring are through the mind. I don't think it's true. I don't think you'll get the whole piece of the pie, especially understanding the world as it is and the nature of reality through pure logic.

Vemir [00:21:36]:
Right. Logic and rationality is a mechanism of the mind. It's brilliant. Mathematics is like part of the basis of the universe. It's a false dichotomy. I think that it's separate from the true self or whatever. Actually, I think we're going to discover one day that all of the principles of enlightenment, everything that comes to the awakening process, can be explained down to the t logically. So it's just using this MiND to figure out what's going on.

Vemir [00:22:04]:
But you have to, like, there's an amazing story by Ramakrishna Paramahansa or something. I forgot how to say it. He was enlightened. And this guy, what is his name? He's a disciple. He lives in the same town as this enlightened being who just kind of lives in his shack. And he's a hyper rationalist, like super brilliant, gonna be a lawyer. And this is actually the guy who later goes on to write the book autobiography of a yogi that Steve Jobs used as his bible, essentially. So now you're seeing the origin.

Vemir [00:22:39]:
There's so many connections with these guys. But he goes to the sadhgurU, told the story.

Denis [00:22:45]:
Just so you know, right now, in these guys brains is like, oh, means a lot. Steve Jobs was, like, upset on his deathbed.

Vemir [00:22:52]:
Remember?

Denis [00:22:53]:
You always remember that.

Vemir [00:22:54]:
No, I remember. Should have said iwami sure, same thing. But imagine a hyper rational mind like Elon or whatever. This guy goes to the house, he goes, opens the door, he goes, what is this God God thing you're talking about? And the guy's sitting there and he's like, I am God. I'm the evidence of God. And he's like, what do you mean? I want to know what this is about. I want to know what, you know. All these questions.

Vemir [00:23:23]:
I have all these questions. I want to figure it out. And he goes, do you have the courage? And he goes. And he like, stops for a minute. He's like, yes, I want to know. I want to know. He goes up to the guru who's just sitting there. And the guy puts his toe on his chest and he has a samadhi state.

Vemir [00:23:42]:
He goes like, a samadhi state is a glimpse into enlightenment. Everything clears for a second. And so he just gave him a, just by touching him, gave him the, and he felt this warm golden glow of light and he knew what it was and he closed his eyes and for like hours he didn't leave his state, just tears flowing down his face. The beauty of existence, what it really was.

Eldar [00:24:05]:
Yeah, yeah.

Vemir [00:24:06]:
And then from there he followed his teachings of this. I mean, imagine that happens to you, right? All the questions went away and he just learned. And he became like, at 21, he's speaking to hundreds, thousands of people, world renowned.

Eldar [00:24:19]:
The disciple. The disciple, which is Sadhguru, the Lord.

Vemir [00:24:22]:
No, no. The disciple is the guy who wrote all Steve Jobs.

Eldar [00:24:26]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:24:26]:
And that man was Steve. Steve Jobs.

Eldar [00:24:28]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:24:28]:
And everybody classed and he may die.

Eldar [00:24:32]:
That's how we got here. Nice.

Vemir [00:24:35]:
That is actually how we got there. But anyway, we can talk about Steve Jobs journey too. But it's like that disciple was just touched by the grace of God. You could say he got a window into enlightenment and it eliminated all those minds, questions. So he had to experience it directly to know what it's like to feel this. And then everything goes away. I mean, a really direct example of this is, you know, you lose your job and your girl and your car gets totaled in the same day it's raining. What's going to be going on in your mind? It's confused.

Vemir [00:25:13]:
It's angry. Why is the world like this? What the fuck is going on? How do I get the gun license to get the ar? Where do I get the arm, whatever it is?

Oleg C [00:25:20]:
The thing is, my girl did all this.

Vemir [00:25:26]:
You find a definitive reason. But it's like whenever you have sex or you're out with your kids, at the park or you're laughing with your friends in a delicious meal. It's rare that you're going to be in that moment wondering what life is. You're just kind of enjoying life as it is meaningfully, right? The questions kind of disappear in joyful moments.

Eldar [00:25:46]:
Here's my problem with this old shit. Tell me, bro, not with your stuff, but who am I stuff, right. But it's like at the end of the day, right? I mean, yes, you can probably try and ask yourself the question, ask yourself the depth, who am I? And probably unpeel certain layers if it's possible even. Right. He says it is obviously experimental thing. At the end of the day, you gotta. You have real life problems you gotta solve. You come back to life.

Vemir [00:26:09]:
Okay?

Eldar [00:26:09]:
Right.

Vemir [00:26:09]:
So.

Eldar [00:26:10]:
And you gotta solve them.

Vemir [00:26:11]:
This is not separate from what I saw.

Eldar [00:26:14]:
How do you solve them?

Vemir [00:26:15]:
So the thing is, if you have a limited frame of mind, a framework that's fragmented and coming from various sources, mainly of pain and confusion, and how are you going to properly solve your problems?

Eldar [00:26:31]:
Okay, so you're saying this is going.

Vemir [00:26:33]:
To fall into automatic problems, same cycles, because you're not aware, you don't know any better. So this journey actually helps you break cycles, patterns, repetitive problems, clear the blind spots. It's actually the way to solve your problems.

Eldar [00:26:49]:
And I agree with that. That's probably the basic way of starting up. That makes sense.

Oleg C [00:26:53]:
But wouldn't this journey ultimately take you to be that hermit in the shack? That's not solving his problems because he just canceled all this problem.

Eldar [00:27:00]:
Why did you fucking say that out loud? Whoa. Damn, bro, I thought you were nice.

Anatoliy [00:27:05]:
Guy, bro, you haven't been here like two years.

Oleg C [00:27:12]:
This is bullshit.

Anatoliy [00:27:15]:
Yeah, corporate world.

Vemir [00:27:17]:
I ask this question all the time.

Oleg C [00:27:19]:
Wait, there's a second part to that question? Well, no, because you can.

Vemir [00:27:24]:
There's no more questions.

Oleg C [00:27:26]:
Yeah, they're intertwined. And then, you know how you said the disciple went on to, he's 21, he's preaching or whatever. It's the thousands. But how come he didn't become the guy in the shack? How come you totally divert?

Eldar [00:27:38]:
How come he didn't develop a toll fetish as well, just while we are.

Vemir [00:27:42]:
Yeah, yeah. Or developing another or the other.

Eldar [00:27:44]:
I want that.

Vemir [00:27:44]:
Touch me. So there's like two reasons. There's like two things I want to share, actually. The two is like the bridge, bro.

Eldar [00:27:52]:
He's got to go back.

Vemir [00:27:54]:
So that's definitely.

Eldar [00:27:56]:
Don't use soccer now.

Vemir [00:27:57]:
This is all eastern Plato, right? It's like the problem is there's two types of enlightenment. There's the one where you become enlightened and you immediately leave the body, move on to the next dimension that's above my head. I don't know what the next dimension 100% is yet, all that stuff. Right, but that's one section.

Eldar [00:28:18]:
Can you travel between universities or not?

Vemir [00:28:20]:
I'll let you know. You can? I'm going to Brooklyn. Yeah, so you. Where?

Eldar [00:28:28]:
What?

Vemir [00:28:29]:
Where in Brooklyn? Bensonhurst. I go to Bushwick a lot. You're not from Bensonhurst, bro.

Denis [00:28:35]:
Where are you from?

Vemir [00:28:36]:
Do you identify as Bushwick here?

Denis [00:28:38]:
Yeah, that's Bensonhurst.

Anatoliy [00:28:39]:
Of course.

Eldar [00:28:41]:
Talk to me. Nice.

Oleg C [00:28:42]:
I think that's Elmwood park in February.

Vemir [00:28:46]:
So I want to answer your question. The first one is you become enlightened. You leave the body. And sometimes they just leave the. The body's just left there in a meditating position or it dies. And they say, oh, the master has awakened. Right. Second is that you become enlightened, but you stay in the body to help others awaken.

Vemir [00:29:05]:
Right? So I don't know what determines it yet. My friend does. So that's the first answer. Is that actually the original guy, Paramahansa Vivekananda. I think he had no interest in teaching others. He just sat in his shack and enjoyed. And his journey is fucking incredible. I mean, the things he did.

Vemir [00:29:32]:
His commitment all the way. It's fucking balls to the wall. That guy is insane.

Eldar [00:29:37]:
He has reached alignment.

Vemir [00:29:38]:
Yeah. He was considered a God in a man's body at his time.

Eldar [00:29:45]:
What's the credentials? Where's his diploma from? Yeah, I believe.

Vemir [00:29:50]:
Concepts of the mind, right?

Eldar [00:29:52]:
Yeah, we'll believe it. We'll take it.

Vemir [00:29:56]:
The other question that you're asking is who qualifies? The answer is by experience. So, like, the guy that becomes enlightened knows the day, the date, the time that he be. Every story of enlightenment, they know exactly when. It's like a shock of lightning. That's what James Salazar said, so.

Denis [00:30:15]:
James Salazar?

Eldar [00:30:17]:
Yeah, well, obviously.

Denis [00:30:18]:
Wait a minute.

Vemir [00:30:20]:
He told me about. So that's one part of it. The second part is some people reach very, very high levels of awakening, but they're not fully enlightened. And they naturally. Okay, this is another thing to introduce. If you realize that you're not any of these things, you're not the small self. All those identity concepts in your mind. You realize who you are is part of the universe and there's no self to find, then it's like a natural consequence after the mind's quieted to help others awaken.

Vemir [00:31:03]:
Because you realize that's the only important thing, right? It's a natural function. Like, insects go in patterns. Bees make the honey. Human being who's awakened will awaken others to help them understand the truth. Because they recognize suffering sucks. There's no reason why you're suffering. So it's just a natural thing that you would.

Eldar [00:31:22]:
That was my question. It's a moral obligation that they have no choice.

Oleg C [00:31:25]:
So did the toe guy. He skipped that step or he went through it, and now he's like, people.

Vemir [00:31:29]:
Would come to him. He would give lectures, but he wouldn't seek it. You know what I mean? Like, he was just very, very content sitting there, enjoying the blissfulness.

Anatoliy [00:31:38]:
He was a selfish kind of.

Denis [00:31:39]:
So you asked. I think you asked a good question, right?

Eldar [00:31:41]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:31:42]:
I mean, Osho will spend 3 hours a day doing lectures. The rest of the day.

Eldar [00:31:47]:
He said, this is the basic shit. You're too much in turmoil. Therefore, you need to shut up. Say, who am I? Who am I? Long enough to shut yourself up. I'm saying how I understood it. Right. In order just to get to the. Just to get.

Eldar [00:31:59]:
Yeah. Dispel an illusion, right? Just get to the base of it so you can function. Otherwise, you can't even function, bro. Can you double that, or.

Denis [00:32:06]:
No, I want to comment on that.

Eldar [00:32:08]:
So certified.

Vemir [00:32:09]:
What's certified?

Eldar [00:32:10]:
He just said, you certify that?

Vemir [00:32:11]:
Yeah, he's right.

Eldar [00:32:14]:
Like, derogatory way. But I want to make it derogatory. You know what I'm saying?

Vemir [00:32:19]:
But it's like, you can't be offended if there's nothing to offend. Like, you know what I'm saying? That's also better.

Eldar [00:32:25]:
So when you reach the point where you. Where's the point that you're actually going? Are you going anywhere?

Vemir [00:32:30]:
There is a hilltop, but you saying.

Denis [00:32:31]:
He'S right is kind of.

Vemir [00:32:33]:
You're giving punch to the guts.

Denis [00:32:36]:
It's not about punch to the gut.

Vemir [00:32:37]:
It's just like punching the nuts.

Denis [00:32:39]:
My opinion is that's incorrect, and I think we're trying to.

Vemir [00:32:41]:
Wait, what is incorrect about what he said?

Denis [00:32:43]:
Okay. I don't know. You know, if you really know what he just said.

Eldar [00:32:47]:
No, no, I'm not trying to diss you.

Vemir [00:32:49]:
I'm saying, like, I didn't hear all of it.

Denis [00:32:51]:
I think you explained it to him in the beginning. You mentioned.

Vemir [00:32:53]:
You said, wait, I must have missed something.

Denis [00:32:55]:
He took what you said.

Eldar [00:32:56]:
You definitely didn't. No.

Denis [00:32:58]:
I'd like to go back to what you said five minutes ago. I think it's important. Which is the application to the real world.

Vemir [00:33:04]:
Problems. Yeah, you don't have any problems.

Eldar [00:33:07]:
My friend over here also has that issue right now. He's asking, like, what's the real world? Obviously.

Denis [00:33:11]:
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Oleg C [00:33:12]:
That's why office and your whole life is fucked up. I know. Your wife, your kids, your job. You're getting enlightened. Are you, like, okay, now I code ten times faster? Yeah, fuck this shit.

Eldar [00:33:23]:
Yeah, I'm out.

Oleg C [00:33:24]:
Like.

Eldar [00:33:26]:
How do you know?

Vemir [00:33:27]:
That's what I know. Monks who are opticians, you know, I'm saying, like. Yeah. You know, like, it's a misconception that you think that everybody drops out and sit in the cave.

Eldar [00:33:36]:
Like, they try to say something. Right.

Vemir [00:33:38]:
This is a huge.

Oleg C [00:33:39]:
Getting closer to enlightenment. They try to automatically. You start wanting to. It's almost like a need to drive you.

Vemir [00:33:48]:
I can read something about this.

Phillip [00:33:50]:
The anger would, wait, so you said one of the guys.

Eldar [00:33:52]:
Yeah.

Phillip [00:33:53]:
Doesn't do anything in. You appreciate his journey, right? You said he had an amazing journey. It was one of the guys that did nothing.

Eldar [00:33:58]:
Right.

Phillip [00:33:58]:
So what did he do that was amazing to you? Because I think that would help us understand what your definition of enlightenment is.

Vemir [00:34:05]:
So think about, like, an olympian, like. Or let's use, like, LeBron James, Cristiano Ronaldo. Think about that kind of routine. It's ultimate self control and discipline. You are hardwired, pushing the limits every day to become something.

Eldar [00:34:23]:
And basketball.

Vemir [00:34:24]:
Yeah. Imagine in the field, imagine taking that intensity and turning it into awakening. So it's nearly impossible to, for example, basketball, soccer, olympics is easy because it's socially acceptable. If you say, I want to become the best programmer on earth, nobody's going to really question. But if you're saying, I'm trying to awaken saying that to people who are asleep, not to be derogatory, I'm just putting a difference.

Eldar [00:34:53]:
It's okay if you are.

Vemir [00:34:54]:
If you're trying to open your eyes, nobody who has their eyes closed is going to understand why you're doing it. That's why it's extremely hard. You're going against every rule that's set for people who are in their minds. Can you imagine having to break the bonds of family, children, career, everything you built in your mind that's valuable? You have to break that and pursue something that you have no idea what it is, so you can't guarantee it. But what people say is that it's the only thing that's worth pursuing. So you can imagine. I believe it's the hardest thing to do because it's the only thing that gives you that step outside. Everything else is in the world.

Vemir [00:35:32]:
This is stepping outside. Right. It's kind of like if you were to max out GTA, is that more meaningful than turning the game off and fixing your real life? And then you step outside of that. You know, I'm saying. It's just another analogy.

Eldar [00:35:43]:
No, I get what you're saying.

Phillip [00:35:44]:
So what are, like, highlights of somebody like that?

Oleg C [00:35:46]:
Like, give me.

Vemir [00:35:46]:
Like, what are. What do they do?

Eldar [00:35:56]:
You can't picture it because you're not watching that sport.

Phillip [00:35:59]:
No, that's what I'm saying. So I'm asking an example, like, he's wowed by that guy. I'm asking, like, she can sit for.

Eldar [00:36:04]:
10,000 hours without moving. Like, got it.

Phillip [00:36:07]:
So he's not. He's not doing anything to anybody else. He's not lecturing or he's not enlightening anybody else. You're saying that that guy's path of enlightenment is just, like, his kind of internal journey within himself. He's content within himself, and he's enlightened. So, like, his. His journey and his interactions. Like, did you read about something that, like, wowed you about, like, how he described his life? Like, I'm trying to understand what you thought was amazing about him.

Phillip [00:36:29]:
So I understand your definition of enlightenment.

Vemir [00:36:31]:
See, I'm trying to, like, load the details in my brain. I mean, one thing that was funny was he was, like, cross dressing to show people that there's no identity with male or female. Okay? And back in, like, the 17 or eight, can you imagine cross dressing, how controversial it was? You know, people believed he was a homosexual. Like, he was going cross culture, like, against his own culture. Right? And, like, now I understand the toll thing. The thing is, like, this knee. I'm not criticizing you. The knee jerk reaction to saying this guy is weird or a freak.

Vemir [00:37:10]:
We went over that with Osho. I'm not gatekeeping and saying that.

Eldar [00:37:13]:
Oh.

Vemir [00:37:13]:
Only some people understand it, right? But only some people understand quirks. Like, why things. You know, you see a guy. Imagine you're, like, a finance bro, for example, and you see a guy with a bunch of, like, Russell brand shirts where the things cut off in these chains. Like, whoa, that guy's fucking stupid. But you don't know why or how he feels. Maybe he has great energy. People are weird, but they might be positive people.

Vemir [00:37:38]:
So this guy, he had. Oh, okay. So I have a good example. He had a teacher, and he's with his teacher by the fire. These are like these sacred coals that were placed by a master a thousand years ago. And like some consigliere or whatever, you know, adviser to them comes up and he picks up one of the calls to light his cigar. And this guy's mentor, who by the way, told that nobody has like, it took them 40 years to understand stuff that he got in like very, very short amount of time, weeks or whatever, so the guy picks up a coal to light a cigarette. The mentor freaks out.

Vemir [00:38:22]:
He says, how dare you ever disrespect our great ancient master? How can you do this to us? You know, like, this is offensive. You don't respect our traditions. Right. And what is the guy, the toe guy, before he becomes enlightened, what does he do? He's rolling on the floor laughing like a kid. He's like belly laughing at how stupid this is, right? And the mentor's like, are you not upset at this too? It's like disrespecting everything we work for. And the guy says, look how he gets up from the floor laughing. And he's like, look how easily that you were disturbed by someone's actions in the world. It's just cold.

Vemir [00:38:56]:
How can you lose your teachings? If you don't actually know your teachings? Then you're going to slip up and get upset. He's telling his mentor this, right? The guy got so enraged from something stupid. And the mentor said, I will never become upset at these kind of things again. So he's teaching his mentor stuff quickly and like just his level of wisdom as he was learning was accelerated, which I think brought him to such a state at like 40 or something like that.

Eldar [00:39:21]:
So it sounds like he developed an ability to be able to take the teaching or whatever it is and then be able to break it down in a very reasonable, concise way to explain to the, to the noobs on how to fucking behave themselves. Okay. Makes sense. And enjoy life 100%. Ultimately enjoy life.

Denis [00:39:38]:
You asked before that part. You asked. Yeah, you asked about. So did he. About practicality.

Eldar [00:39:43]:
Yeah. Right.

Denis [00:39:44]:
So your, your perception of the practicality of using the mind is that you eventually come to the right conclusions to do the right actions.

Vemir [00:39:52]:
Correct?

Eldar [00:39:52]:
Yes, correct.

Oleg C [00:39:53]:
Right.

Eldar [00:39:53]:
Yeah. That you reason enough to find out why you do the action in the first place. What are the patterns, right. And then do corrective measures, obviously. See the new evidence, see what you get and then choose and then make the choice when you start, finally become aware that you have a choice, that's number one, raise awareness about what's going on actually in your mind. Number two, then try something different if you want to. Number three, choose which one. Which one you like more.

Eldar [00:40:15]:
You have control over your outcomes.

Vemir [00:40:18]:
Freedom, which is a spiritual present.

Denis [00:40:20]:
So a lot of those things coincide with that, right? Like, especially the idea of figuring out what's going on, how to use it, and what's up here, what's in here, right? Yeah, but when you ask, like, I forgot exactly what you said, but you're like, you know, you're poking a thing at it, but you were saying, like, okay, cool, we're in this life.

Vemir [00:40:39]:
How's that gonna.

Denis [00:40:39]:
Okay, cool. You can get rid. Well, in my experience, like I was telling you before, I mean, we were talking mainly about discipline. But the short, short answer to that would be, it's, again, experiential. Like, my words ain't gonna say shit to you.

Eldar [00:40:54]:
But that's what they usually say in religion.

Denis [00:40:56]:
I mean, yeah, all the religions point to hinduism, Buddhism, all these things, all these whatever you want to talk about. They all point to the mind and some kind of understanding of it and quieting it in some way.

Eldar [00:41:08]:
That's why they go. They only go on Sundays.

Denis [00:41:10]:
Okay. Anyway, the point is, when you ask me, I got problems in my life, right? I got problems in my life, I.

Eldar [00:41:17]:
Got something going on.

Denis [00:41:19]:
How does this help? Well, it helps by, I mean, it's essentially, you can just label it for basic terms as meditating, right? Let's just call it that. Or who am I?

Eldar [00:41:27]:
Whatever you want to call it.

Denis [00:41:28]:
But the work on the mind, how does it help? Well, the state that you get from participating in this act of, let's call.

Eldar [00:41:34]:
It who am I?

Denis [00:41:35]:
Or meditation or whatever puts you in a certain clarity. Where then when you ask, you also ask a similar question. All right, well, then what are you going to like? What it brings. It's like an analogy would be for the lovers in a room is like when you're in love, that feeling, it's euphoria, right?

Vemir [00:41:51]:
And it's usually based on false concepts of love, too.

Eldar [00:41:54]:
No, hold on.

Denis [00:41:55]:
Let's not. Let's not. Let's just say the feeling you have, right, you're still operating, right? You're feeling great, you're feeling blissful, but you're not. Like, you don't like all of a sudden not have a brain. Sometimes you can go awry and get lost in that, no problem. There's extremes to everything, but the idea is you're able to now you're in love all of a sudden you want to do what you want to help others. You're feeling good, this and that. So it's a similar kind of common where it's like you get into this state.

Denis [00:42:20]:
It's not like you become like, I don't want to do anything. Or like, oh, I only know how to like it. No, then you, then you're like, like, for instance, I applied it, I continue to try to apply it where it's like I'm fucking overwhelmed and I gotta focus on work or whatever I'm trying to do. And like, I go do it. And then after, it's not like I just want to chill and chill. It's like, okay, cool. I calmed the nonsense that was going on that was causing me from not continuing work or continuing my project. Whatever I have to do, I calmed it.

Denis [00:42:44]:
And now it's like, all right, you good?

Vemir [00:42:45]:
Yeah, I'm mad. Good.

Denis [00:42:46]:
Like, let's go. And now it's action time. Now it's go time. You go into a sense of action. So when you then bring in this.

Vemir [00:42:53]:
World that we're in, yeah, it sounds.

Eldar [00:42:54]:
Like you constantly engaging with the world in a blind way, and then you have a tool at the end to pick you up. I'm talking about preventative care before, as to ask you why are you acting or reacting this way in the first place? Okay, it's just methodology. If this shit works for you, good luck. Do it as much as you can and get good at it fast. Cuz I just understood what you said.

Vemir [00:43:15]:
There's a key point here.

Denis [00:43:16]:
But, but the what you, when you guys come here every week for the last 70,000 weeks, yeah, you keep talking about more or less the same thing over and over.

Eldar [00:43:25]:
You under that impression, no individual was not using their mind. And that's supposed to understand what's actually going on because of the fact that you don't have explanations to your world. Your world is, who am I? Who am I? Who am I confusing yourself into. Into that which I can explain to you in such a way where you can get there with just reason you're under. We keep coming back. We keep coming back as this shit is addicting. It feels good. Do you keep coming back to who am I?

Denis [00:43:59]:
Addicting? Feels good.

Eldar [00:44:00]:
Problems. Do you keep coming back to you, why am I bullshit? No, you know, you don't do shit.

Vemir [00:44:09]:
All right, so.

Eldar [00:44:13]:
Work.

Oleg C [00:44:31]:
You guys both chill really intensely.

Vemir [00:44:34]:
It's like a ice bath. Like you weren't ever asleep for two days.

Oleg C [00:44:39]:
I never chilled like that.

Eldar [00:44:40]:
Brian, inject some insulin. Or something. With your toe or something.

Oleg C [00:44:49]:
I hate feet, but, like, that kind of foot, I will.

Vemir [00:44:52]:
Yeah, good.

Eldar [00:44:57]:
Boom.

Denis [00:44:57]:
I got it. You got into the real world. The real world shoves you another problem in a different form, and you're. Oh, wait, that's the one I mind.

Eldar [00:45:04]:
That's the beauty of the mind. No problem.

Oleg C [00:45:09]:
I don't think.

Eldar [00:45:11]:
My only rebuttal.

Denis [00:45:12]:
My only rebuttal is you trying to make this blasphemous shit of, like. Yeah, you gotta keep doing it.

Eldar [00:45:16]:
So stupid.

Denis [00:45:17]:
You wanna, like, wait, wait.

Vemir [00:45:18]:
You're not a. Wait, wait. I have a question. You have to properly represent his argument to combat. You said, oh, I have to hear. You have to say what he said. No, no. I want you to repeat it in a way that he agrees with what you're saying.

Vemir [00:45:38]:
Like, you. No, no, no.

Eldar [00:45:39]:
Not.

Vemir [00:45:39]:
You represent his argument clearly enough that he will say, yes. That's my argument. I'm gonna try to be fair.

Oleg C [00:45:47]:
Eldar should have to do that.

Vemir [00:45:48]:
No, no. I'm saying that if he says it and Eldar agrees with what he said, that Eldar's argument is, then we're on the same page.

Anatoliy [00:45:57]:
It shows.

Vemir [00:45:58]:
Yeah. So can you. Interpretation of his argument, and then I want him to review it and work.

Denis [00:46:03]:
Through is the fact that this is basic shit that only gets you so far.

Vemir [00:46:09]:
Who am I?

Denis [00:46:10]:
Yeah. Let me say it. And it gets you so far, because when you're trying to. In my example there where, like, I'm having some issues and I go through this process, I gain clarity. I gain a better state of mind. I calm down to whatever negative thoughts or whatever ridiculous things that the world throws, and we. It's anxiety or whatever it is. And then I have clarity.

Vemir [00:46:28]:
I have peace.

Denis [00:46:29]:
I'm like, oh, what the fuck am I even tripping about? And then that clarity is, in fact, the understanding, which he's misunderstanding in me.

Vemir [00:46:35]:
So is that what you were trying to. Is that. Is that what you were trying to say, what he just said?

Eldar [00:46:40]:
Yeah. Well, I'm saying that what he's experiencing.

Vemir [00:46:42]:
Throughout the day, throughout.

Eldar [00:46:44]:
Throughout the time. Right. He wants to code it with, like, a band aid with this. Who am I?

Vemir [00:46:48]:
Okay, so.

Eldar [00:46:53]:
There'S the first place. Wait, wait, wait.

Oleg C [00:46:55]:
Dennis, what is. What is. What is the alternative eldar saying is better than yours?

Eldar [00:47:00]:
Okay.

Vemir [00:47:00]:
Yeah, no, no, I.

Eldar [00:47:01]:
What's the alternative? Yes.

Oleg C [00:47:02]:
What is. What is Eldar saying? Is the real shit the alternative, which is way better than your, you know, ignorant idea.

Eldar [00:47:09]:
He's. What is my suggestion?

Denis [00:47:10]:
He's saying use logic. To understand why you're even having these problems, these anxieties or whatever in the first place, and then that'll heal it.

Oleg C [00:47:18]:
My mom.

Eldar [00:47:20]:
I mean, it's a process to understand why and react to those worlds.

Denis [00:47:24]:
You're okay with things that are not instant, but only when it's your thing.

Oleg C [00:47:28]:
Wait, but wouldn't, but wouldn't. Separating the self and realizing what the self is, and in that exploration, understanding what each component lead you to.

Vemir [00:47:45]:
Why.

Eldar [00:47:45]:
Did that, what you think?

Vemir [00:47:48]:
No, there's a big.

Eldar [00:47:55]:
The way I'm hearing it, and tell me if I'm wrong, what you're saying, and I think this, the, what I'm hearing is that your thing does not actually go to the root core of the problem that you're having. Just says, yo, just say, who am I?

Denis [00:48:06]:
The point. The root core of the problem doesn't exist. The problem that you're having is 1000% a bunch of bullshit that your mind created. And if you go beyond the core, what you think, which is like, but why?

Eldar [00:48:17]:
My thing is, why is it creating it? I want to find out, why is it.

Phillip [00:48:22]:
Saying that?

Eldar [00:48:23]:
Why is it, why does he keep on happening? Who am I? Every single time?

Phillip [00:48:38]:
Your anxiety is what you're talking about. If you have something to tame your anxiety. And what he's saying is, whatever the who am I? Stuff, whatever you're doing, it's the band aid, because it keeps recurring and recurring and occurring.

Denis [00:48:50]:
Well, no, that's his interpretation, but it's.

Oleg C [00:48:52]:
A practice each time. Maybe it gets easier.

Eldar [00:48:55]:
That's why I encourage him to go do it more and do it faster so he can, he can relieve himself. Great.

Vemir [00:49:02]:
You guys read the text?

Eldar [00:49:03]:
Yeah.

Vemir [00:49:04]:
Okay. So you missed like.

Denis [00:49:17]:
Six pages.

Anatoliy [00:49:19]:
No.

Oleg C [00:49:24]:
Come on now.

Eldar [00:49:27]:
The whole thing.

Anatoliy [00:49:29]:
And we went.

Vemir [00:49:29]:
I don't remember that. This was one of my main criticisms. One of my main criticisms of the text is actually the main criticism of all the gurus, which is that they. But you're listening.

Oleg C [00:49:58]:
Hold on. Let him make the point.

Denis [00:49:59]:
Solve the problem of how to survive in this world. Live. Now if I later get in line. Fantastic. His whole thing is, that's bullshit, it doesn't do it. And my whole thing is, that's bullshit. It doesn't do it. Keep coming back.

Denis [00:50:09]:
Talking about the same shit with a different band aid, different bow. It is actually a bandit. And then they make the same problems anyways, mistakes anyways. Come back, try to solve it, feel a little better. Go. It's the same, it's the human experience. When you're describing, you think that, like, you get some magic thing and everyone else is in.

Vemir [00:50:28]:
Closer.

Oleg C [00:50:36]:
Direct response from the text.

Phillip [00:50:41]:
The discrepancy is, do you think you're making.

Vemir [00:50:45]:
See how hard it is to actually, like. It's impossible to convince. Let me clarify. This is you can't have.

Denis [00:50:57]:
Do I feel like I'm making progress in this method? My problem can be done, defined in one window to your question.

Phillip [00:51:16]:
Okay.

Vemir [00:51:17]:
Yeah.

Denis [00:51:18]:
Does it work for me? 1000%? Do I feel better through it? Has it helped me in my. In my relationships, my health, my fitness, and all sorts of 100% and I can get into.

Eldar [00:51:32]:
But that's whatever, right? That's.

Denis [00:51:33]:
If you're interested, we could talk about that, right? No, but these people are not interested.

Eldar [00:51:37]:
The point.

Vemir [00:51:37]:
That's the judgmental point. But everything else. Okay, sure.

Oleg C [00:51:40]:
What you mean these people?

Denis [00:51:42]:
For the record. For the record, I'm not alignment, and I do have judgment and ego. Yes.

Eldar [00:51:47]:
Welcome back home.

Denis [00:51:48]:
My point is, what they do also works.

Anatoliy [00:51:52]:
Right.

Denis [00:51:52]:
The problem that I have and continuously have is this energy of, we're so smart. Your shit is stupid.

Vemir [00:52:00]:
Why does that affect you?

Denis [00:52:01]:
Hold on. It's not about. The debate is here, right? We're debating it. It always keeps coming back.

Vemir [00:52:10]:
Why does it bother him?

Eldar [00:52:12]:
Combined?

Denis [00:52:13]:
My dude needs to be right.

Oleg C [00:52:15]:
Oh, no. It can be a definite obstacle. Right? It's not practical when you're trying to do your thing. But then they're, like, no conducive to develop.

Vemir [00:52:24]:
I can't take it seriously. A big.

Denis [00:52:26]:
Oh, yeah. The answer to your question is, I just, for example, been doing my own thing for six months. I don't give a damn. About what. Like, who believes in me. Like, it's irrelevant. Right? So it's not like every day I'm here. It's just what happens.

Denis [00:52:37]:
Two days ago, we got into it again.

Vemir [00:52:39]:
About what?

Denis [00:52:41]:
About discipline. But that's a different story.

Vemir [00:52:44]:
Why don't we talk about. Why don't we talk about discipline? This is not from this conversation. This is something else.

Denis [00:52:52]:
My only issue here is that there's multiple ways to skin a cat. We don't have to get into the gurus. It's about how to be happy here and solve the problems that we have here. Just like he was talking about. The only issue I have is then that energy that comes where it's like, that's complete bullshit. That's complete stupidity, which he's never even experienced.

Vemir [00:53:10]:
It never gave it a try, Dennis. Like you should have.

Denis [00:53:13]:
And then says, everyone like me and everyone else is stupid. Then we talk about discipline, things like that. My friends over here like to say, like, discipline is for stupid people. And this, it's categorically labeling the world, okay. That operates outside of this.

Vemir [00:53:30]:
Okay. Actually, I know what you're saying.

Denis [00:53:33]:
Philosophy works every. First of all, don't shit on everybody.

Oleg C [00:53:52]:
Give and take. You guys done a thousand episodes. You still talk like, I don't know, teenagers.

Vemir [00:54:06]:
Frustration.

Denis [00:54:09]:
This debate has been going on for years.

Oleg C [00:54:12]:
Get back to it. Just let me say his thing, please, for the sake of the listeners.

Vemir [00:54:18]:
No, just. Just. I'm gonna go right to what you're saying. Yeah, you're frustrated for a good reason, but it's a common mistake. I'm gonna generalize and then go right back to what's happening right now. So most people on the spiritual path hit a very, very critical point that they actually regress, which is what you're doing right now. No, wait a second. Wait.

Eldar [00:54:47]:
You might have a slingshot.

Oleg C [00:54:48]:
Hold on, hold on.

Vemir [00:54:49]:
I'm saying that the point that I'm reckoning, correct me if I'm wrong, is that once, once you actually. Maybe. I'm not saying that you are what he says you are. I'm saying I'm just taking his idea.

Oleg C [00:55:01]:
Yeah, okay.

Vemir [00:55:02]:
Saying that, like, his frustration with Eldar is the same frustration that most people who are on the beginning medium stages of awakening are in, is that they wake up from their own shit. They make an effort, improve themselves, and not only blame others, but they actually.

Eldar [00:55:29]:
Guys came here to talk shit.

Vemir [00:55:31]:
I'm being polite. But you're gonna miss the point. It's like the important part is they look at the world and see how fucked up it is from what we've been doing with our minds and from our trauma.

Denis [00:55:45]:
Hold on.

Oleg C [00:55:45]:
I wanna know where this goes. Let's not just give you the answer. Let him finish the thing.

Denis [00:55:51]:
Ask a lot. He knows it all. Good.

Oleg C [00:55:53]:
Say that again.

Denis [00:55:53]:
He's the smartest guy.

Eldar [00:55:54]:
Say that again out loud.

Oleg C [00:55:56]:
You gotta get a toe. You gotta do the toe thing so we don't have to listen to the whole podcast together.

Eldar [00:56:00]:
See, I deliver on my promises, right? Today's gonna be fine.

Vemir [00:56:02]:
I only have ten toes. So basically, I wanna hear the frustration. It comes from actually a really beautiful place. His frustration is actually from compassion. He. I'm serious. He sees that other people are asleep, and he gets frustrated when he sees people going into the same cycles, going through the same problems. You're right.

Denis [00:56:27]:
I'm not on that spiritual stuff.

Vemir [00:56:32]:
Spiritual. Hello. Real spirituality is the practical path there is. So I don't know what dichotomy you're talking about. Definitely part a. The thing is, is that the guru.

Oleg C [00:56:49]:
He'S wearing all white. You're gonna hit it with a fireball.

Vemir [00:56:55]:
I like this dope after, you know what I'm saying? Anyway, so where it comes from is actually you now awakened, you lose a little bit of your ego, all that good stuff, and you say, why isn't everybody like this? And then you get angry, you get hateful, and you cause resentment against people who are asleep. This is one of the stuff stages. After that stage, you get to the point it's low, but you get to. And then people dislike you and they often get a wrong idea of religion, spirituality, new age spirituality, all that stuff. Because the person that's just waking up, they're a little plant. They're learning. Some ants can get shade under the plant, but they're not a tree yet. They're not gurus.

Denis [00:57:36]:
They're not Eldar.

Vemir [00:57:37]:
Good.

Oleg C [00:57:39]:
So in this analogy is Dennis the newly awakening and Eldar the crew are deep in slumber.

Denis [00:57:47]:
They're God. They're God.

Vemir [00:57:48]:
Everybody is.

Oleg C [00:57:50]:
This example sounds like they're in this.

Vemir [00:57:51]:
No, I'm saying, I'm saying, I'm saying from his perspective, and you should know that if they are so fixed on this mindset, they're going to eventually run.

Eldar [00:58:00]:
To obstacles and take us time to understand you guys.

Vemir [00:58:03]:
They're going to need more.

Denis [00:58:05]:
You're categorized me in a way that, like, that's not my point. You're trying to categorize me, and I.

Eldar [00:58:13]:
Know you're trying to make him out to amateur. Yeah.

Denis [00:58:15]:
Listen, I feel like you're so productive.

Vemir [00:58:17]:
I agree with you at the base. That's what it is.

Denis [00:58:20]:
But in the context of what's going on here, it's a matter of, you have an individual who believes that his method is the only way, the best way.

Vemir [00:58:29]:
That's what everybody thinks. They think Christianity is the only method. They think communism is the only thing.

Denis [00:58:35]:
Could that have harmful effects?

Vemir [00:58:37]:
Why is it upsetting you? It's the most.

Denis [00:58:39]:
I don't care about changing it.

Oleg C [00:58:43]:
But does that make the most common.

Vemir [00:58:45]:
Thing on earth to do that? Because you are a plumber and you find a plumbing business and you have millions of dollars. Some kid asks you for advice, you either give mad general advice or you tell them about your pathway, and you only know the way that you got there. The reason why I'm going to bring up gurus is because they all have their structure, way to enlightenment. But that's how they got there.

Denis [00:59:08]:
Why did you shit on other plumbers if it wasn't your way?

Vemir [00:59:12]:
If you understand the gig, if you understand all of what we're talking about, spirituality as whole, from a to z and z to a, then you wouldn't share your teachings in a way that would be offensive or authoritarian or condescending. So when Eldar speaks from the place of rationality, let's say I think he's more than that. He's going to say it in a way that is. That's dumb, or that's because it's obvious to him, but he doesn't know how to communicate it in a way that you're going to be receptive. In the same way you will get frustrated that he doesn't get. Who am I? He didn't investigate as deeply as you did. He doesn't understand it fully. He's conflating words.

Vemir [00:59:58]:
And so he doesn't understand. That means your job as the explainer means that you haven't understood your thing fully and you haven't been able to. So what I'm saying is both of.

Denis [01:00:10]:
I do too. I'm waiting for the examples to be honest myself.

Eldar [01:00:13]:
Like, where's the breath on what I'm saying is already an old dog.

Vemir [01:00:18]:
There's a really big misconception here, too, is that this is another central theme of what we're talking about is like when somebody says, I'll. How does I know he's enlightened? I'll see it. When you're successful, your method will work. When I see results. Wait a second. Huge assumption. What are those results that you're talking about? It's going to be, through your framework of success, subjective. So, like, if.

Vemir [01:00:47]:
If my little cousin Armon and my younger cousin Ohan, they're twelve and 17, I bring them up because they are. They are really. They're really trying.

Eldar [01:01:04]:
You use the same name twice.

Vemir [01:01:08]:
All Armenians names. So, like, these guys have me as a cousin, which is already. I don't know if that's good or bad, right? But it's like they have a unique perspective for me, but without me. Just think about. They're armenian, raised in America. Whatever I hear what they're saying and what they're looking for. They look at our older pieces of the family. They want to see who's rich, they want to see who gets the girls.

Vemir [01:01:32]:
They want to see these things. And that's their definitions of success. So both of you have different views of success. So you might be seeing past each other and saying, oh, you're not really happy. Someone told me that actually. They told me you're not actually happy. I said, that sounds like you're projecting your ass onto me. Like no one can really be happy.

Vemir [01:01:55]:
No one really trusts anybody. You're just saying how you feel about the world. So you're expressing from your inside an enlightened person. It's obvious what their markers are to them. It's obvious how they feel. This is the whole thing about being experiential. When you say the beautiful example, he said about being in love, when you feel that way, when you feel you're fully yourself, you understand there's no fear. Everything becomes way more obvious.

Vemir [01:02:24]:
And where you come from, it works. And what does it works look like? It is so evident. Your relationships are based on real love. Your girl comes, you have 9 million volunteers as Sadhguru, you have all the abundance and wealthy. Did you miss that one?

Oleg C [01:02:43]:
He knows how to get you guys.

Vemir [01:02:44]:
When it does work, it's the same consequence. Yeah, yeah. Just throwing like I attention iPhone. And come your girls bound.

Eldar [01:02:54]:
You heard from there.

Vemir [01:02:56]:
So, like from there it would make sense that like, if you have a really overweight, poor skin complexion guy teaching you how to lift weights and go to the gym, he might. A clock might be right twice a day, right twice a day. But he can't give you the a to z. Someone who has a fit body. You trust Schwarzenegger's advice on how to get the bicep curl. In the same way the enlightened man you are going to trust ask the questions because he is living in his being the way it's supposed to be, for example. So if you have a fit body, you can give advice and you know where it's coming from and you can see the results. And the benefits are a consequence.

Vemir [01:03:42]:
When you awaken, the benefits are a consequence. If you work hard in a career, the benefits are a consequence for money or whatever you're trying to go. So if Dennis has his who am I? And like you said, he goes intensely and he understands it. And he reaches the hilltop, you're going to come to him and depending on your level, you're going to recognize something in him and you're going to understand like, oh, there's something there. I'm grab. It's like a. I don't know what it is. It's almost like when you see a girl and it's magnetic and there's other attractive girls, but that one is magnetic.

Vemir [01:04:16]:
There's something there. That's when you met someone who's awakened? It draws attention. It draws.

Oleg C [01:04:22]:
So is the hilltop. Sorry, Sandra? Is the hilltop, like the peak, or is that. Or is there many hilltops?

Vemir [01:04:30]:
No. When you make your girl. So enlightenment is considered the hilltop. From what I know, all of the stuff I've read, it's a point. Now, I have my own theory about what those next levels after human enlightenment are, but that's another.

Oleg C [01:04:46]:
I don't want to get a spectrum, though. Like, what if Dennis, he just starts exuding some positive vibe or whatever.

Eldar [01:04:53]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [01:04:54]:
And then he's not enlightened, but he's actually.

Vemir [01:04:57]:
There are levels.

Oleg C [01:04:57]:
He's climbed some jhanas.

Vemir [01:04:59]:
It's, like, documented. There's twelve levels in Buddhism. There's all. Like, for example, I'm not going to go out and say that I know this for sure. Someone like Sadhguru may not be enlightened, but he may have reached a certain incredible level where so many layers dropped away. He's so blissful that he has so many people going to make the world a better place. Actually, your framework and your framework seem to show results in a direction, but it's not holistic. So you're still encountering problems.

Vemir [01:05:30]:
Once you reach this hilltop, it's holistic. There's no blind spots. So if you recognize blind spots, you're helping him. If he recognizes blind spots, he's helping you. And it's so clear to both of you about the other person because you're not in each other's mind. He's seeing things you cannot see. You're seeing things he cannot see. The frustration is like.

Vemir [01:05:47]:
It's so obvious to me, why can't you see it? But the frustration. Letting go. One last sentence, like, the last thing of this particular step. Letting go of the frustration of the process. Your dad doesn't understand you or this person. None of that matters. It's obvious that when you were asleep, you didn't know how to recognize it. The person that's wiser than you would know that you are not ready or you are trying to awaken.

Vemir [01:06:19]:
And they just. They don't know better. I mean, you can say that brilliant minds who are unawakened are very destructive because they just don't know better. Yeah, that's my short. Am I on track?

Eldar [01:06:31]:
I don't want to speak in your mouth.

Vemir [01:06:35]:
No way. Listen, but I want to check in with Dennis.

Eldar [01:06:43]:
What I learned from your ramble here is that if I have the ability to egg this guy on and to piss this guy off, then you found his weak spot. Yes.

Vemir [01:06:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:06:54]:
Long enough and persistent enough that it's gonna push him towards his. Who am I to do it more consistently and become a lion? Okay.

Vemir [01:07:01]:
You could lose people like that easily.

Eldar [01:07:03]:
Yeah. Yeah, I'm all for it.

Oleg C [01:07:07]:
No, I think. I mean, isn't that like a very, like.

Eldar [01:07:12]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [01:07:13]:
Wait, that's.

Eldar [01:07:14]:
Yeah. Please don't leave us. We missed you.

Oleg C [01:07:20]:
No.

Denis [01:07:20]:
Shitty way to live.

Eldar [01:07:21]:
That's exactly.

Vemir [01:07:23]:
Well.

Eldar [01:07:28]:
Seeing your blind spots, that's a good thing. You see my blind spot, that's a good thing. I'm getting stuff from you. I can change. That's a choice to change when you.

Denis [01:07:36]:
Also, like, you got frustrated, like, you orchestrated the frustration. Yes, I got with you.

Vemir [01:07:45]:
For it. Your method. I know it. It doesn't work.

Eldar [01:07:51]:
Wait, what method?

Vemir [01:07:52]:
The method.

Eldar [01:07:53]:
You just say, that's what I'm doing. This is what's going on.

Vemir [01:07:56]:
It limits your progress.

Eldar [01:07:57]:
Why.

Vemir [01:08:01]:
You doing that to him? Limits your progress.

Eldar [01:08:03]:
I thought it increases his, though.

Vemir [01:08:05]:
You just said, you think.

Eldar [01:08:07]:
No, you just said that.

Vemir [01:08:08]:
I'm saying that like, I.

Oleg C [01:08:09]:
Wait, Eldar. But doesn't. Wisdom isn't supposed to come with compassion and patience.

Denis [01:08:13]:
No, not for elder.

Vemir [01:08:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:08:16]:
What do you think I'm doing here?

Oleg C [01:08:17]:
They kind of guru, you know.

Eldar [01:08:25]:
Also with wisdom.

Vemir [01:08:27]:
Wait a second. I'm trying to give you some insight that I have. Like, what I'm saying is, like, one of the hardest things in my life was being misunderstood. And then a lot of people gave me a lot of advice on this, and now I'm pretty much okay with being misunderstood. But for the most part, it's hard, and that's why I try to articulate myself and all that stuff. So the thing is, actually, is that there's some issues for you directly when you take this method, which is like, okay, I have a family member who did this to me. They're, like, alpha, and they kind of directly challenged the bullshit that I was spewing, and he was right, but I was so angry at him. Part of it pushed me in a direction to self inquire more and see if I was bullshit.

Vemir [01:09:16]:
Some of it he did was gaslighting, which was unhealthy. Some of it made me cause distance from him. And I was right, because he projects not only this direct pinging of bullshit of me, but he also predicts negative energy, a lot of ego and stuff like that. The problem is, is that your methodology is going to get you maybe a little more entrenched into that fixed idea of that I know better, and it's going to make your ego bigger. And if you're serious. Yeah, if you're, if you're serious about this pathway, then you have to let go of even any attachment of. I know. Anything.

Vemir [01:09:53]:
Rationality is good because life is going to show you how rationality is not enough. And you'll be on your knees.

Eldar [01:09:59]:
What's the advice?

Oleg C [01:10:01]:
Is there something about you're supposed to embrace the people the most that are, like the most different from you?

Eldar [01:10:06]:
Oh, those. The hardest trigger. Yeah.

Oleg C [01:10:09]:
So I'm already embracing them.

Eldar [01:10:11]:
Okay. What should, this is the problem. I'm having problem with them.

Vemir [01:10:18]:
So you can only have a problem with him if you're both resisting. Like.

Eldar [01:10:23]:
Yeah, correct.

Vemir [01:10:24]:
Like, if you, if you don't, first of all, there's, you should also.

Eldar [01:10:33]:
What parts of the relationship that we have together? Because he feels that I resist.

Denis [01:10:39]:
I said, I only have one problem. He said, again, you got a methodology, which, by the way, like, if we put down the debate, you know, a lot of it, we agree on some things, even, like, you know, I take your advice on. So it's not, you know, regarding love, like all this and that. That's a hundred percent. So it's not like a black and white thing.

Eldar [01:11:01]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:11:01]:
It's just specifically the method of your, we'll call it philosophy.

Eldar [01:11:08]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:11:09]:
For lack of eldar, is approach.

Eldar [01:11:11]:
Okay. Okay. Okay.

Denis [01:11:12]:
Is this what we just did ten minutes ago? It's always that. And it's a holier than thou approach. And then when you peel that back, you see, like, yes.

Eldar [01:11:23]:
Okay, cool.

Denis [01:11:23]:
Your method is working as well.

Vemir [01:11:25]:
Great.

Denis [01:11:25]:
No one's knocking that, but, like, don't knock everybody else for doing their thing. That's proven.

Eldar [01:11:32]:
Right.

Vemir [01:11:32]:
But other than that, we're pretty good.

Denis [01:11:34]:
And then, and then you should not. Because then you're not looking under your hood. You're what?

Oleg C [01:11:39]:
But then you can.

Eldar [01:11:40]:
You said that's the only thing.

Oleg C [01:11:42]:
Yeah, but, so you can use Denison.

Denis [01:11:44]:
You can use Dennis's, that approach the others. And it's an approach that, it makes you feel like you know more than you actually do. And then that breeds this cocktail kind of energy, this. And it sets you back much more because you think you're growing somewhere. But like, you kind of, like, in that same. But this is like some shit. It might be logically true, but, like, the application is where the work is, and that's where we all have these journeys that take time.

Vemir [01:12:09]:
So this is not about that. It's like, it's the way that, first of all, talking shit is like emotional poison, which is not good for you. I never gossiped in my life. I feel nauseous. But anyway, the point of what you're saying is this is about your friendship. You don't see yourself. You don't see that it's equal. You don't feel like you're on the same level of respect.

Vemir [01:12:31]:
He feels that he's telling you what to do. It's like, that's not what he's saying at all. Like, I'm saying that that's the energy you're projecting, is that I have something to teach you and I don't need your.

Eldar [01:12:44]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:12:45]:
And then. Wait a second now. Why are you although calls you and.

Eldar [01:12:48]:
Says, y'all want to teach you this? So, yeah, I'm asking for help. So where he doesn't like what's going on when he sometimes presents here. You know what I mean? Comes out the way he feels from the dynamic, I guess.

Oleg C [01:13:01]:
But then it's talking about the.

Eldar [01:13:11]:
Approach.

Oleg C [01:13:11]:
Yeah. I hear it on every.

Vemir [01:13:12]:
No, I just said earlier. It's the way he says it. Right.

Eldar [01:13:18]:
If you're coming to a teacher asking for advice, who the fuck.

Vemir [01:13:22]:
Look, there's an argument to authority that's not right.

Oleg C [01:13:25]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Vemir [01:13:25]:
It's like you should challenge. That's very blank authority that exists. Like, the thing is that he, like, there's verbally. In the verbal game, I feel like there's nothing that could offend me, really, which is a very.

Eldar [01:13:42]:
Easy for him.

Vemir [01:13:42]:
The problem I'm just saying, though, the locust that I.

Eldar [01:13:46]:
You just open something up.

Vemir [01:13:48]:
The thing that I look through now.

Eldar [01:13:49]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:13:50]:
Is right.

Eldar [01:13:51]:
Very good. I remembering certain things about Bakugan.

Oleg C [01:13:54]:
I thought, exactly.

Vemir [01:13:56]:
The thing that I must look through now is what's right or wrong.

Eldar [01:13:59]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:14:00]:
So actually, when you're a spiritual person, you think you should be. No, fuck that shit. You got to be strong. Why? What? You have to use your sword at the right time.

Eldar [01:14:09]:
Yeah. So you think I'm not good at using my.

Vemir [01:14:11]:
Wait a second, I'm.

Eldar [01:14:12]:
Holy shit.

Vemir [01:14:13]:
I didn't say that about you. I'm not talking about you. It's not all about you. Please give me a second to finish.

Oleg C [01:14:28]:
Eldar is like a bad inner city kid. And Vermeer is like a hat. Like, has been inmate who converted Islam. And he's trying to teach him scared straight. You know what I mean? And Vermeer is like, Cosling can be okay.

Vemir [01:14:44]:
Sometimes what I'm saying is like, oh, my God. That's funny. Has been in me.

Oleg C [01:14:53]:
Vemeer is, you know, doing the chodki.

Eldar [01:14:55]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [01:14:55]:
You know.

Vemir [01:14:58]:
Alhamdulillah, brother. Come back home, brother. No, but that's a good. What you're saying right now is the same thing.

Eldar [01:15:07]:
Right?

Vemir [01:15:08]:
So what I'm saying is, like, I look through what's right and wrong, and my sword comes out when I hear something that's wrong, not when something's against me.

Eldar [01:15:17]:
I'm glad you. I'm glad you have that conversation.

Vemir [01:15:20]:
A lot of people.

Eldar [01:15:21]:
Yes.

Vemir [01:15:22]:
A lot of people say, or, like, say that something's wrong. And, like, the dynamic of my life is very weird. I don't care anymore. I can tell you this is the most liberating thing over, like, 25 year journey of always caring about what other people think. My decisions are not made, even a fragment of that anymore. But if someone says some wrong thing, right, that's when I pull myself, and you should. So what is Dennis's mistake, in my opinion?

Denis [01:15:52]:
Wait, I'm emotional.

Eldar [01:15:53]:
I know.

Vemir [01:15:53]:
No, I'm saying that you are getting an. Emotional is a beautiful thing. You're saying that you're looking for an answer, and then you also want to hear it. Like me, sometimes I want to hear it in a nice tone. The problem is soft landing.

Denis [01:16:07]:
I think you point that, right?

Vemir [01:16:09]:
Yeah, soft landing is a beautiful.

Denis [01:16:11]:
He doesn't like people that need soft landing.

Vemir [01:16:12]:
So what he needs to recognize is that you are a type that needs a soft landing. What you need to recognize is that it's not personal.

Eldar [01:16:19]:
Yeah, yeah. My doors are always open. My hands are always open for me.

Vemir [01:16:22]:
But. But the way you say comes off as, like, rough, which is fine. Fuck anybody.

Eldar [01:16:27]:
I can't jump over it. I tried. It'll be fake. It's not me. Vermeer.

Vemir [01:16:31]:
So him for. Maybe you got to make some room of, like. Don't say there are challenging people. What I'm saying is that.

Oleg C [01:16:48]:
You tell me if you followed, right.

Vemir [01:16:49]:
You guys are on the same page. I don't actually see.

Oleg C [01:16:53]:
Let me try this.

Eldar [01:16:57]:
The word play.

Vemir [01:16:58]:
Trucker, honest trucker. Honest trucker. No points.

Oleg C [01:17:03]:
Enlightened trucker. I realized trucking is the only enlightened activity, so. Yeah, like, imagine you're like a fitness coach, drill sergeant, whatever. He's like, a fat.

Eldar [01:17:13]:
Before you say that, feel this fucking show, right?

Oleg C [01:17:15]:
I don't even need.

Vemir [01:17:16]:
I feel with my gardens for one week, and then.

Oleg C [01:17:19]:
And then Dennis, he's like a fat guy. Maybe in the army. Maybe you're his. Yeah, fit, personal.

Eldar [01:17:24]:
Enough of his fucking bitching and moaning, bro.

Oleg C [01:17:26]:
Hold on. Yeah, I know.

Eldar [01:17:28]:
Okay, good.

Oleg C [01:17:28]:
Just follow me. Right. So isn't there, like, with wisdom comes certain balance. So, for example, like, fat shaming, right? There's always arguments, is it bad? Is it good? But there's spectrums. Maybe somebody you fat shame up. It's super effective. But maybe with fat dance, like, if you keep shaming him, it's just gonna, like, prod him too much. Like a certain level.

Oleg C [01:17:49]:
But after that, not. But then, Eldar, you're like, this is my method. Don't fuck with my method.

Phillip [01:17:56]:
Missing.

Oleg C [01:17:57]:
But why can the methods. Come on, guys. Phil got, like, two paragraphs.

Vemir [01:18:15]:
It doesn't work for everything.

Oleg C [01:18:17]:
You need a fucking total. You gotta shut all these guys up.

Vemir [01:18:19]:
No, I'm saying that his method cannot possibly work for every human.

Eldar [01:18:23]:
I'm guilty of having a little bit too much fun.

Vemir [01:18:28]:
You should have too much fun. Okay, but it's like.

Oleg C [01:18:31]:
Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Phillip [01:18:35]:
So I think.

Vemir [01:18:36]:
I was gonna say that I think.

Phillip [01:18:39]:
What I think is Eldar is trying to hold you accountable, but I think why it's difficult for you and to define it is because whatever you're trying to do is not clearly the fact. So I think you have to clearly define whatever your goal is. It seems like to get over your anxiety or whatever it is. But your progress, whatever your progress is, he seems to have a problem with your progress. So without me knowing exactly what it is, I think that has to be clearly defined. And your goals and your trajectory has to clearly define us. So he's trying to hold you accountable, whether you're doing. Who am I? Whatever it is.

Phillip [01:19:12]:
And whatever his tone is, I think it's all irrelevant. I think you're not hitting your goals to him in your. In his mind, and he's trying to hold you accountable. So I think whatever you're trying to do is not making progress to him. So you're saying you're making progress, and it seems like it's not like, it seems like it's not going there. So you said you are, but it seems like you're overcoming anxiety. But that seems like that's the basic thing in order for you to do.

Vemir [01:19:39]:
To getting an eye on yourself.

Eldar [01:19:41]:
I'm waiting for him to come home. I'm waiting for him to come home.

Phillip [01:19:44]:
Want to know what your goal is? So it seems like he's trying to hunt other.

Denis [01:19:49]:
You're not on a correct point.

Phillip [01:19:51]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:19:51]:
What I'll try to take it from, because you're right into what direction you're going.

Phillip [01:19:55]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [01:19:55]:
Things.

Denis [01:19:55]:
I don't even have anxiety, to be honest.

Eldar [01:19:57]:
Right.

Phillip [01:19:57]:
So what are the goals.

Oleg C [01:20:05]:
I get it. You're using.

Phillip [01:20:08]:
But that's.

Vemir [01:20:09]:
You're disturbed. Yeah.

Eldar [01:20:10]:
Oh, my.

Vemir [01:20:13]:
You're like, no, he's out of balance.

Oleg C [01:20:16]:
No, you're just saying your emotional display. Dennis, answer the question that was asked.

Phillip [01:20:36]:
Eldar saying, because I don't think you're.

Vemir [01:20:40]:
Hitting your goals in his mind.

Phillip [01:20:42]:
So, what are your goals? My question.

Anatoliy [01:20:44]:
Your.

Denis [01:20:45]:
I would answer that, but then it would be. We would have to then go into another topic that he really loves.

Vemir [01:20:50]:
I got.

Phillip [01:20:51]:
Well, I think it should go there.

Eldar [01:20:53]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:20:57]:
Which is the most important thing, is what you. What me and you got to.

Oleg C [01:21:01]:
Which is.

Denis [01:21:01]:
And it's the same thing here.

Eldar [01:21:03]:
You want my blessing for your practice?

Denis [01:21:07]:
It's about what we got to when we were arguing about this one the other day, is there's objective truths about the world.

Vemir [01:21:13]:
Right.

Denis [01:21:13]:
Like, that we see. And then, like, you have to first define that. And, like, when we defined. We were talking about discipline, for example. Just real briefly. I'm not gonna go.

Eldar [01:21:20]:
And.

Denis [01:21:21]:
And he defined it as the fuck. What was it?

Vemir [01:21:24]:
This is a masturbation, though, like, house of cards. Like, defining this using other words that you have to then define. This is a typical analytical philosophy. No, no, that's not philosophy. That's a section of philosophy called analytical philosophy.

Denis [01:21:37]:
No, but what I'm just trying to.

Vemir [01:21:38]:
Say is objectively, which is a mistake.

Denis [01:21:42]:
If you don't have, like, if I see the world as, like, I want to get, for example, like, what he wrote there. I want to get rid of the mind. And I believe that getting rid of the mind, for example, for lack of a better words, brings me to my pure happiness and. And finding my happiness in this life. And his, let's say, is like, that's complete. That's not it. I want to use my mind. I keep my mind.

Denis [01:22:01]:
That's horseshit. And actually using it more will get me to my pure happiness.

Vemir [01:22:05]:
You're both right.

Eldar [01:22:05]:
So, hold on.

Vemir [01:22:06]:
Yeah. So that's the point.

Denis [01:22:07]:
What brought me to is back to the only truth that he also agreed with me on about other topics is, like, if you have that objective truth you don't agree on, it's ridiculous. It's useless to then go into the subjective things like meditations. You 100% disagree on.

Phillip [01:22:23]:
Those are only topics, though. But if you. If you making progress to him, I don't think he would be acting have to transition towards you.

Denis [01:22:32]:
I think that would be the better.

Vemir [01:22:33]:
You know what I mean?

Denis [01:22:34]:
Because, like.

Vemir [01:22:34]:
No, it's not about. No, no.

Denis [01:22:35]:
I'm saying that.

Vemir [01:22:36]:
You know what I mean?

Eldar [01:22:37]:
No, I mean, he's asking you, like, look, if you have actual tangible outcomes that you're talking about, I can. If you're seeing those successes, then okay, great. Then you might have to share them.

Vemir [01:22:48]:
He thinks that you're doing the same thing you like. He thinks that you're preaching from a holier than that because.

Oleg C [01:22:54]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:22:54]:
Which is funny. You're both thinking that, which means that.

Denis [01:22:57]:
You talk about it so much.

Oleg C [01:22:58]:
No, I think Dennis's point is his approach isn't like, oh, there. Your shit is stupid. I learned this new thing.

Vemir [01:23:03]:
You're getting the same feedback. I don't think he's thinking that stupid either.

Eldar [01:23:07]:
No, no.

Oleg C [01:23:08]:
I'm saying. I guess the difference with Dennis is saying is elders like you. I have this way. You fucking idiot. Check it out.

Vemir [01:23:14]:
I don't think.

Oleg C [01:23:14]:
Let me teach you, you dumb piece of shit. And then. But then Dennis is like, you. I found the. This way. I respect your way. Check out this other thing. Elder.

Oleg C [01:23:21]:
Like, that's so stupid, bro. When are you gonna learn the real shit? So it's like, kind of. I mean, in a practical sense, that's.

Vemir [01:23:29]:
What happens he's doing in a different language.

Eldar [01:23:33]:
Yeah, but look, like, I feel like.

Oleg C [01:23:34]:
That'S gaslighting a little.

Vemir [01:23:36]:
I think Dennis is saying that this method is not working for him.

Eldar [01:23:39]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:23:39]:
And you're saying that this.

Denis [01:23:43]:
What do you mean?

Vemir [01:23:43]:
You're saying that this method is not.

Denis [01:23:51]:
For him.

Vemir [01:23:52]:
You're saying elderism is not fully working for Eldar, and he's saying that. Yeah. Who am I?

Eldar [01:23:59]:
That's not what I'm saying.

Vemir [01:24:01]:
Working for him.

Eldar [01:24:02]:
He only sends his wife.

Vemir [01:24:03]:
No, I'm asking you, do you think that his love.

Eldar [01:24:07]:
That. Do you think that shouldn't have done it?

Vemir [01:24:08]:
Do you think that his.

Denis [01:24:10]:
That was also. The funny part is listening to that feedback after how many times you mentioned, like, yo, yo, you know.

Eldar [01:24:14]:
Yeah. It was very calculated.

Denis [01:24:17]:
Yeah. The deep work of three months before that. The same stuff, you know, actually use your trick, which let somebody else say the same thing you've been saying, but you always want the credit.

Eldar [01:24:28]:
Credit. Talk about what happened. What happened. Listen. Yeah, brothers.

Oleg C [01:24:36]:
My boy Marshall.

Denis [01:24:38]:
It's that, my man, what stuff was works. Logic works always. It's the energy. That's why, like, you only hit that energy of, like, energy.

Eldar [01:24:47]:
We gave Austin. We gave. We gave her everything that she was thankful.

Denis [01:24:51]:
And what you just did, it's like. Yeah, yeah. Like, yo, we helped you wipe.

Eldar [01:25:01]:
And.

Denis [01:25:01]:
It dilutes any of the good that might come out.

Eldar [01:25:06]:
Yes.

Oleg C [01:25:08]:
I think that's Dennis is probably overall point. That's Dennis's point. I think, overall, in one phrase, you guys talk shit, and it dilutes all the good. That's, I think, what he's trying to say, just so we get a clear.

Denis [01:25:22]:
But you.

Eldar [01:25:23]:
Then you.

Denis [01:25:23]:
He puts that holier than thou battery in your back, and now you talking shit about cats. Talking about discipline is stupid. This is stupid.

Eldar [01:25:30]:
That wasn't even my concept. That was Mike's concept. Come on, brother. When he realized what he realized. I agree with him. Yeah. And the truth is bothering us, you.

Denis [01:25:49]:
Believing that you think you have the.

Eldar [01:25:51]:
Truth, you have it too much fun, and he can't take it. You understand? At the end of the day, comes down to the fact that you got to do what you got to do. You got to do it by discipline, whatever it takes, because you can't just hang around, talk shit, and enjoy yourself. That's the fundamental difference. That's it. I'm going towards that, to be able to go towards that, like, you know, and I'm trying to challenge everybody to be able to get there, you know what I'm saying? Where you do what you like and enjoy yourself. You know what I'm saying? He doesn't believe that methodology, which is perfectly fine.

Oleg C [01:26:17]:
What if you're getting him to discipline? What if it's his first day in the gym, and you're trying to get him to bench 300 pounds? How is he ever going to get to that if you don't get him to bench 15 pounds, 20 pounds?

Eldar [01:26:28]:
Yeah, if it was the first day, I would.

Oleg C [01:26:30]:
No, whatever. He has a disability.

Eldar [01:26:34]:
Now, that is a funny comment.

Oleg C [01:26:36]:
I didn't. I didn't mean like that, but that's funny.

Vemir [01:26:39]:
It's just really interesting.

Oleg C [01:26:41]:
You know what I realized? Dennis and Eldar, they're both these tall guys who just wave their arms, so you just see these two fucking flapping ass arms from two sides, and. Yeah, so, basically is what's going on. Eldar is saying. He's saying. He's saying, dennis, you're like a yoga mom. Like, you learned some fucking yoga shit from this class you go to. That's nice that it helped you, like, get a bigger butt or whatever, but it's definitely not gonna help you with all this other shit, right?

Denis [01:27:09]:
That's what it is taken to, like, a couple bad yoga meditation classes by his sister, and ever since then, it's like, yo, anybody who talks about meditation or any sort, it's a bunch of bullshit. And that's it.

Eldar [01:27:18]:
Yeah, that's gonna be next topic.

Oleg C [01:27:21]:
I thought elder supports meditation and eastern philosophy.

Denis [01:27:25]:
Discipline. Is that the people that you watch religiously on the tv, UFC fighters who only use discipline, but you watch them religiously?

Oleg C [01:27:34]:
I'm not clear on the current, like, on the current commandments of letter friends. So maybe the GM totally can enlighten us. Meditation, dead or not, eastern philosophy, good or no discipline.

Denis [01:27:47]:
Is that too. I've been dealing with this for like 13.

Vemir [01:27:57]:
I know this. It's not like you're the two people on earth who have this.

Denis [01:28:02]:
Yeah, no, it's so.

Vemir [01:28:03]:
I know 40 people like this.

Oleg C [01:28:05]:
What would you advise to Dennis to. That's. That's possible. Oh, realistic.

Vemir [01:28:11]:
You want them to be, first of all, different than they are, which is.

Eldar [01:28:15]:
Yeah. Believe that if you came to elder with a. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just gonna say this is what I thought about. If you came to elder with a problem, first time ever, the first thing he did was slap you on the head and call you an idiot. I said, how many times? He came to me with problems or you came, I have a testimonial, bro, with the same problem. Come on, man.

Anatoliy [01:28:37]:
And he.

Eldar [01:28:37]:
Then he started making fun of you.

Denis [01:28:39]:
What does that have to do with the approach?

Eldar [01:28:41]:
Because you're saying that he's not giving you the right approach, but I think he's giving you the approach from the beginning.

Denis [01:28:50]:
It's not like I live my life.

Oleg C [01:28:53]:
You know what I mean?

Denis [01:28:53]:
It's not about. It's about. It's about when the two. When we do coexist.

Eldar [01:28:57]:
When I listen to what you guys are advice. I mean, his wife came through.

Denis [01:29:12]:
Am I my wife?

Eldar [01:29:13]:
You signed her here, though.

Denis [01:29:14]:
But am I my wife? You talking about me?

Anatoliy [01:29:22]:
No, but you asked him for help there, right?

Eldar [01:29:24]:
Yeah. No, you didn't say that. You gave a whole background that yo. Yeah. I mean, you want to talk about it? I mean, sure, yeah. You said, y'all, I've been trying to deal with this odds situation for a long time. Yeah. I try all these methods.

Eldar [01:29:40]:
I don't know. I'm hopeless. That's what I'm saying.

Denis [01:29:44]:
Like, absolutely not. Are you nuts? I'm hopeless. I never said, what do you want with the. We can go back to the tags to go back to whatever you want, of course. Usually are.

Eldar [01:29:57]:
I'm hopeless.

Denis [01:29:58]:
Come on, bro. What are you talking about? I'm hopeless?

Eldar [01:30:00]:
I'm not gonna bring out the text for the sake of my own ego, because Vermeer advised to me that I have to take care of it. And not be. I have to be a little bit more humble.

Denis [01:30:09]:
What are we even talking about?

Oleg C [01:30:11]:
Wait, but let's get back to the point of what Vermeer was telling Dennis.

Eldar [01:30:14]:
Yeah, with the pollutionist. Why are you attaching yourself to the. Forget about it.

Denis [01:30:21]:
I'm trying to.

Eldar [01:30:22]:
I'm riding with you about it. It's not that serious.

Denis [01:30:24]:
No, you're saying bring out that, like.

Eldar [01:30:26]:
No, no, forget about it. We don't need to relate.

Oleg C [01:30:29]:
What does eastern philosophy say about, like, this kind of, like, support you. You're gonna like what?

Eldar [01:30:42]:
You help them out, bro.

Oleg C [01:30:43]:
Yeah, sit on your hands, bro. Or a clan member.

Eldar [01:30:55]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:31:00]:
Operating that claims it has some truth. Constantly be engaging in these kinds.

Eldar [01:31:04]:
Listen, just.

Denis [01:31:05]:
You don't want me to bring. It's like.

Eldar [01:31:24]:
Anxiety. People are.

Denis [01:31:27]:
Like. It doesn't make any sort of sense. You know, it just shows that you're actually on the same level as the people you're looking at. Oh, yeah, that's their car, my man. Like, door. Yeah, like, it's ridiculous. Like, get off the high horse. All you motherfuckers are struggling just like everybody else.

Eldar [01:31:44]:
Homie. Homie.

Denis [01:31:45]:
You know, struggles to not bang russian broads with Botox fillers and give them all their money. I got anger problems. We're all struggling. So why the fuck point that people shit as if, like. Like, you.

Oleg C [01:32:01]:
You.

Denis [01:32:02]:
You know, your stock market shit, just three months. It's crazy shit. Like what? Like, everybody, like, perfect. And then everybody else is retired. It's ridiculous.

Eldar [01:32:12]:
On our journey, answer the questions all.

Vemir [01:32:19]:
Personally, he still wants accountability.

Eldar [01:32:22]:
He's like, yo, this doesn't. Look.

Vemir [01:32:28]:
I don't care. Like, a personal anecdote about this situation. Yeah, that is actually.

Eldar [01:32:34]:
But you talking in this calm little voice, you are pissing him off a little bit. Just want to.

Vemir [01:32:37]:
Oh, sorry.

Eldar [01:32:38]:
Okay.

Vemir [01:32:41]:
Yeah, no, like, no, you gotta wait. Actually, people. People sometimes get pissed in arguments because I'm too calm.

Eldar [01:32:48]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [01:32:49]:
Oh, women hate that.

Vemir [01:32:51]:
Women hate that shit. But I know how to do that. I know how to do that one, too. Now, you know, you can't always become either.

Eldar [01:32:57]:
And we didn't even have the Y station speak. Yeah.

Denis [01:33:00]:
So what do you mean?

Eldar [01:33:03]:
You tell me, bro. Tony's gonna say five words right now. Just put this whole shit together.

Oleg C [01:33:06]:
But Vermeer doesn't have a piece of fabric that's not white on it.

Eldar [01:33:10]:
This is true.

Vemir [01:33:11]:
Check my underwear.

Anatoliy [01:33:12]:
His socks are pretty dirty.

Eldar [01:33:13]:
I'm not gonna lie.

Vemir [01:33:16]:
They're great. Yeah, they're kind of, like, off white.

Eldar [01:33:20]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:33:23]:
With black socks.

Denis [01:33:25]:
The solution I think somebody was talking was the solution that I found, is, like, everybody's got to live their own flow. And. And, you know, we joined to, you.

Vemir [01:33:32]:
Know, that's like, a hands off.

Eldar [01:33:35]:
I've tried all the other approach. Oh, I agree with that. I agree with that for sure.

Vemir [01:33:45]:
Okay, first of all, I am definitely not trying to convince everybody anymore. First of all, I think you're actually trying to convince these two gentlemen of something, right? You're trying to convince them of something, which means that you're dependent on an outcome, and you get frustrated that you cannot reach the outcome. This is a mistake. They have their own free will. You have no control over other people. So let it go. First of all, from there, let it go. The second thing is, like, your frustration is likely valid.

Vemir [01:34:27]:
Is it projecting, or. Definitely. Definitely the frustration is valid, but you are projecting, which is the last thing you said. You said everybody's going through their own struggle. It's true. Not everybody's going through your struggle. So, like, for example, I went through serious, rigorous, intense, like, clearing of all this shit through force. And I came back and someone very close to me in my circle, let's say, my family, right? They knew me my whole life, and they were judging off of the guy.

Vemir [01:35:06]:
That was two years ago or a year and a half ago before I went through this purge.

Eldar [01:35:10]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:35:10]:
Natural behavior to do that.

Eldar [01:35:12]:
Did I waska for the purge?

Vemir [01:35:14]:
No. So. And it's not that serious, but basically, we're talking about love and girls and stuff like that. And I was hearing things that were clearly wrong. Like, you can never be friends with a girl. Truly. Girls are always going to focus on your status, money. Well, all the shit that I heard, I read through the alpha male playbook.

Vemir [01:35:36]:
I went through all of those. Everything. Tate is just the alpha male textbook as a person. Right. So, basically, what I'm trying to say is that your frustration and stuff is coming from your idea of what they need and where they're at, which you cannot ascertain fully. The second thing is, what I experience is, like, I'm sitting here and someone close to me is judging me for something that I'm not. So I am clearing up that it's wrong, and I'm showing them through my life that, yeah, you can actually have a girl that loves you, and you can share love deeply. And he's saying, no, no, no.

Vemir [01:36:15]:
It's not possible. There's no fucking way. It's not you. It's never seen it. He just doesn't know what it looks like on the other side of the fence. So whether it's you or whether it's eldar, to me, it really feels like some people are definitely more happy, more peaceful, and more calm. Those people might be the closest people next to you, and you might feel that they are pulling away or you're pulling away too fast or someone's getting more awakened more quickly or something like that. Or it just ascends differently, and then we get attached to.

Vemir [01:36:51]:
No, you're actually, like this guy. We grew up together. You're my boy. We're equal. But maybe they have advanced better than you. Maybe you've advanced better than them, and that difference is a bit jolting. My advice would be to see people for who they are and accept that, and that's the only place you can go off of. If you go off of, like, that's too hard, though.

Vemir [01:37:11]:
This is. But that's, like, everything worth it is hard. I agree.

Oleg C [01:37:15]:
So, if Dennis is that guy being judged by who the old Dennis is, how does he get the guys?

Vemir [01:37:21]:
Or he's judging Eldar for who the old Eldar is or both, right?

Eldar [01:37:25]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:37:25]:
So the best thing is to just see who they are, not who you want them to be.

Eldar [01:37:31]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:37:32]:
That's gonna cause really, a lot of tension, and your frustration is thinking that his mouth is gonna say something different. When you're too smart to realize, you know, what's gonna come out, and whatever comes out, you should accept that's where he is. Whatever he's at, you should say that's where it's at.

Eldar [01:37:48]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:37:49]:
And that's, like, the best way to build from anything. Like, actually, now, the person that I just mentioned, I don't want, like, because they're so close to me in my whole life, I wish they could see what I'm seeing, because they would avoid so many issues in romance. They would not suffer the way they've been suffering for over a year. They're older than me. Right. And I have a bunch of people who are like this, who are in the same cycles. All I can do is be there, ascend myself, give my advice without ego, and it's ultimately out of my control. So if you separate and you feel like, wow, I can only be there, be my best self, whatever that means, just.

Vemir [01:38:30]:
And then maybe I'll lead by example. But, like, yeah, you know, other than that, most of this is out of your control. Most of this is out of your control. The frustration is actually here is trying to control.

Eldar [01:38:42]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:38:44]:
Discipline is another subject. But does that make sense? Am I hitting any markers here?

Denis [01:38:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:38:52]:
Thank you for calming him down.

Oleg C [01:38:55]:
Mike is just like, yeah.

Eldar [01:38:56]:
Thank you. Yeah.

Vemir [01:38:57]:
Dennis is on the right track, dude. He's like.

Eldar [01:39:00]:
He's almost there.

Vemir [01:39:01]:
I'm not a judge of that.

Eldar [01:39:05]:
I feel like Dennis is, like, gold of handicap, bro. You know what I'm saying? You talk about.

Vemir [01:39:10]:
Oh, I'll give you an example. My closest.

Oleg C [01:39:13]:
I mean, we're all.

Eldar [01:39:15]:
Yeah, he's not laughing. He's my type. Look at this, man. Pussy.

Denis [01:39:21]:
I think you're gonna. You definitely can't. When you talk about tight, like, one thing you know about Dennis is like, yes. Thick skin.

Eldar [01:39:28]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you mean? Great. Who you giving the compliments to right now?

Vemir [01:39:34]:
To have a thick skin.

Eldar [01:39:35]:
Yeah. To who?

Vemir [01:39:36]:
To Dennis.

Eldar [01:39:37]:
You give him the compliments, the wrong person.

Vemir [01:39:39]:
Well, you already know my compliments, baby.

Denis [01:39:41]:
I don't understand, like, who you think.

Eldar [01:39:43]:
We think develop your thick skin over here. You know what I'm saying? 15 years I've been eagle. Yes. Me. Give me props. Yes. My shit. I'll give him the wrong person.

Oleg C [01:40:03]:
You being that guy. Elders being that guy. You know where. Yeah.

Vemir [01:40:08]:
Yes.

Oleg C [01:40:09]:
Elders being the guy. You know? It's like, yo, I got this car. Yo, who put you on that? Yo? It's like, what do you mean? We've never had this conversation. It's the best.

Vemir [01:40:19]:
It's fucking.

Denis [01:40:25]:
This guy's world.

Eldar [01:40:27]:
He'll tell you right now. He'll tell you right now. The key to enlightenment is to enlighten others in order to do that.

Anatoliy [01:40:33]:
What?

Denis [01:40:33]:
To have more fun.

Eldar [01:40:39]:
He's the other guy. He's the guy that touches the guy with the toe. He sits over there. That's it. And I'm cool with that.

Oleg C [01:40:44]:
I know in sound prediction production, there's a constant distance, more or less, for sound. There's variable.

Eldar [01:40:52]:
I'm held back to get by offending everybody 100%. So they're right.

Vemir [01:41:01]:
I tell you something I'm actually annoyed by, which is, like, the gatekeeping shit. Like, I haven't told you a lot of stories, but I've seen. Not talking illuminati. Don't go there. I've seen some very high levels of society. I have some very, very wealthy mar a Lago documents. I have been in, like, circles, you know, let's say Michelin star restaurants, car trips, whatever it is.

Eldar [01:41:25]:
Yeah. What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah.

Vemir [01:41:27]:
Let's figure it out. You know, you got to pay me for appearances. Yeah. So, basically, why am I saying all this? Is because my. My mom, first of all, she lived a high life until a certain point. But she taught me those principles of elegance and sophistication and quality. So when I hear someone who's new money, let's say. I'm not saying I have old money.

Vemir [01:41:47]:
I'm saying that they have this mentality.

Oleg C [01:41:49]:
Range Rover, you're the classic european one.

Vemir [01:41:52]:
They put. They put shit, like, together. That's Gucci and Balenciaga. It doesn't match because they have no style. And they talk about how I went to fucking, you know, Baldazar. I laugh because they have no idea. It's just funny to me. But of course, it's annoying to think someone's on their high horse about high fashion, gastronomy and real culture.

Vemir [01:42:16]:
They name drop and stuff. I'm like, I have shaken hands with those guys. I already know. Don't I just see them as embarrassing themselves a little bit in this specific subject? It's funny, but it's, like, weird. Like they're showing some ego based on nothing. So there's a lot of subjects that this can happen. And I try to claim no authority. That helps me a lot because if you claim no authority, you're ready to learn.

Vemir [01:42:42]:
Dirty socks, baby people.

Eldar [01:42:43]:
Humble, dirty shoes.

Vemir [01:42:45]:
You know, these shoes are, like, somehow very expensive. It looks like shit. That's it. Along somebody for a distress something.

Oleg C [01:43:00]:
Wait, but, elder. So you don't think there's any positivity to Dennis practicing these? I mean, around you?

Eldar [01:43:06]:
I think he's a fraud.

Oleg C [01:43:07]:
I think he's a fraud around you, Anastasia. All that stuff you always like preaching eastern philosophy type thing.

Eldar [01:43:13]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [01:43:13]:
And that Dennis dabbles in it. Try something. Doesn't work for us. Tries it from another side.

Eldar [01:43:18]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [01:43:18]:
And it's helping him somehow.

Eldar [01:43:20]:
No, it's not.

Oleg C [01:43:22]:
Even if someone's shit at meditating would be.

Denis [01:43:24]:
You have to.

Oleg C [01:43:25]:
Someone has he actually, if someone's, let's say what I'm doing, how I'm doing. What if someone's like.

Eldar [01:43:35]:
Where you have fun?

Oleg C [01:43:36]:
So let's say you're shit at meditating. You're doing it over time. Yeah, maybe today meditating just helped out. I don't get a better sleep. And you're like, dude, you're like fucking trash. Like, that's so linear. But, like, maybe this guy uses meditation and help him sleep for a while. Eventually it's actually helping think of deeper concepts.

Eldar [01:43:55]:
So.

Oleg C [01:43:56]:
So isn't he wearing. Isn't he wearing it?

Eldar [01:44:04]:
He's trying to help you out. He's trying to throw you bonus. You're behaving the way you are fucking.

Oleg C [01:44:08]:
Goro from mortal Kombat with the forearms. So I'm saying, isn't Dennis practicing these things, however superficially? Maybe at first, eventually wearing. Eventually wearing those.

Eldar [01:44:25]:
I hope so.

Oleg C [01:44:26]:
Wrapping myelin she around those, and then.

Eldar [01:44:32]:
I hope so. I hope he actually does it because.

Oleg C [01:44:36]:
Dennis is doing a lot of curls with 20.

Eldar [01:44:39]:
I actually.

Denis [01:44:39]:
Do you hear yourself?

Oleg C [01:44:41]:
Dennis is doing a lot of curls.

Eldar [01:44:45]:
You know why this is happening, Phil? Cuz you didn't do the ten minute meditation like I asked you in the beginning. You fucked everything up.

Oleg C [01:44:50]:
Yeah, I'm happy you guys aren't drinking alcohol this time. It becomes incoherent. Just.

Eldar [01:44:56]:
Yo, we love that show, Mike.

Oleg C [01:44:58]:
Poor guys are rowdy. It's like a bunch of guys in the hood playing Dyson talking.

Vemir [01:45:03]:
What do you know about the hood, baby?

Eldar [01:45:04]:
Yeah. So you're saying something or not? Are you gonna just keep mumbling?

Oleg C [01:45:08]:
What do you mean.

Eldar [01:45:11]:
Mumbling, bro?

Vemir [01:45:12]:
You know, I have an answer from the text. There's. There's an answer in the text about this. Don't you remember? Don't you remember the text? Like he's saying, I only read it once, so I don't remember the whole thing. But he's saying, like, people go into this space, meditation, peace, and finding the higher self, and then they come out and do things in the world. They get frustrated, they go back in this way. Thank you. They're not fully committed, so thank you.

Oleg C [01:45:41]:
This is that practice.

Eldar [01:45:42]:
He's. No, no, that's not practice. No, that's called fads. That's called that shit that Mike talked about when he witnessed motherfuckers and then curse them out in the parking lot. Get the fuck out of here. Meditation. The results of the results, man.

Vemir [01:46:15]:
So the problem is, I want to read something.

Eldar [01:46:18]:
The reason why, bro, you're never gonna.

Oleg C [01:46:21]:
Get these guys to listen it to the reading. Hold on. I like how you guys. You guys brought up a text. Shut up.

Eldar [01:46:28]:
Dan is, bro.

Vemir [01:46:31]:
I have. I have you said the answer about living in the world and doing this and all of this?

Oleg C [01:46:37]:
That was the first question.

Vemir [01:46:38]:
It's the same question.

Oleg C [01:46:39]:
No, I like how the top, the topic.

Vemir [01:46:43]:
I gotta read this.

Oleg C [01:46:44]:
Hold on. Shut the fuck up.

Eldar [01:46:50]:
We invested one right here. We invent one right here, right now.

Oleg C [01:46:54]:
The top.

Eldar [01:46:55]:
Nobody else is listening to this shit. Nobody else understands what the fuck? These gurus are fucking mumbling, bro, constantly about this meditation, this self, this. Nobody understands anything. You know what I mean?

Oleg C [01:47:08]:
Yo, this podcast started with you guys saying, hey, there's a text. We're gonna discuss. And every time Vermeers try to redirect things from the text, that shit.

Vemir [01:47:17]:
Okay, so I can't get canceled. So I. I have a. Another text. It's directly from OSHA, which talks about this. You want me to read that or you want me to read my books? Okay.

Oleg C [01:47:32]:
I mean, whatever. Whatever you think.

Vemir [01:47:33]:
All right, so I'm gonna read this. What's relevant to what I'm gonna.

Eldar [01:47:36]:
We already debunked this shit, bro. We debunked it as alive and fucking well as you can see it. And you're about to be infected, everybody.

Vemir [01:47:50]:
So the. They say meditations the only door you enter, which, when you come back, you never regret everything else. You go through the door, and you. Meditation is the only. Nobody has regretted committing their life.

Eldar [01:48:08]:
Yeah, that's a copper sticker thingy saying.

Vemir [01:48:10]:
No, I mean, but I'll give you the hilltop of living in the world.

Oleg C [01:48:14]:
Maybe he's about to say, and that's bullshit, but you guys just say.

Eldar [01:48:17]:
He's not gonna say that.

Vemir [01:48:18]:
So.

Eldar [01:48:19]:
By the way, having a hard time saying in a small amount of words, he says a lot and says absolutely nothing. Nobody understand.

Vemir [01:48:24]:
Can you do understand?

Eldar [01:48:25]:
No, we do understand it. Just do it in a more concise way.

Vemir [01:48:28]:
Oh, try. Yeah, I get that criticism all the time. It's not that I'm rambling. My brain thinks of five examples.

Eldar [01:48:35]:
No, for sure. Because. Yes.

Vemir [01:48:37]:
So I'll just read your text, and then you. And I want you to think rhetorically, like, who is the happiest person that you know personally? Mine is my dad. And he practices this. Okay. Lutzu says, and I don't know who Lutzu is, but one has to learn action through non action. One has to learn this complex game. One has to do, but not become a doer. One has to.

Vemir [01:49:07]:
One has to do almost as if one is functioning as an instrument of God. One has to do and yet remain egoless. Act, respond, but don't become restless. When the action is complete, you have responded adequately. Go into rest. Work when is needed to work. Play. When is needed to play.

Vemir [01:49:26]:
Rest. Lie down on the beach. When you've worked and played, when you are lying down on the beach under the sun, don't think of work. Don't think of the office. Don't think of the files. Forget about all the world lying in the sun. Lie in the sun. Enjoy it.

Vemir [01:49:38]:
This is possible only when you learn the secret of action through inaction. And then in the office, do whatever is needed in the factory. Do whatsoever is needed. But even when you are doing, remain a witness. Deep down in deep rest, utterly centered, the periphery moving like a wheel. But the center is the center of the cyclone. Nothing is moving at the center. This man is the perfect man.

Vemir [01:50:03]:
His soul is at rest. His center is absolutely tranquil. His periphery is an action in doing a 1001 things of the world. This is my concept of a sannyasin his followers. That's why I say, don't leave the world, remain in the world, act in the world, do whatsoever is needed, full and yet remain transcendental, aloof, detached. A lotus flower in the pond. That's your hilltop.

Eldar [01:50:31]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:50:31]:
It's the hardest pathway. Yeah.

Eldar [01:50:34]:
You just erase discipline right there. With all that.

Vemir [01:50:36]:
It's not hard to drop out of the world, and it's not hard to become engaged and confused in the world. The best thing is to become like the lotus flower. It grows in the mud, but it's untouched and it has a fragrance. And that's what the goal is, to.

Eldar [01:50:50]:
Be in this world and still be the flower. And now we can transition to.

Vemir [01:50:55]:
You may need to go to the cave and come back. Right?

Eldar [01:50:58]:
You may.

Vemir [01:50:59]:
You may need to go away for eight years and come back. You may need to go away for a weekend retreat and come back. You may need to go away for ten minutes and come back. Some people never go away. Some people drop out and never come back.

Eldar [01:51:11]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:51:11]:
So this, to me is the. This is this.

Eldar [01:51:15]:
I got your mic. Keep me in good health and I'll be there.

Vemir [01:51:17]:
Like, I actually feel like I'm awakening through the struggle of dealing with normal or whatever kind of people and situations.

Eldar [01:51:26]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:51:26]:
And whenever I get too disturbed, I go to that place. I find.

Eldar [01:51:30]:
How many times did you go to this place while. During this conversation? Because we were talking.

Vemir [01:51:34]:
Yeah. I mean, like, it doesn't actually bother me. I have. Yeah, I know you're gonna hear me when I talk, so I just wait. Yeah.

Oleg C [01:51:42]:
Okay.

Denis [01:51:43]:
That's it.

Oleg C [01:51:44]:
I don't know.

Vemir [01:51:44]:
Was that helpful?

Eldar [01:51:45]:
That was very helpful, and I agree with it, but not for everybody.

Vemir [01:51:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:51:48]:
No, I don't. Yeah.

Oleg C [01:51:49]:
Well, to be honest, I got on a lot of these things probably without analyzing.

Eldar [01:51:53]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [01:51:53]:
Some of them I don't know how to, like, interpret practically. I mean, if I think about it. Yeah. A lot of times, you know, like that. I mean, that's probably an obvious thing, but anytime there's. Right. Some kind of teachings or whatever, it doesn't have to be eastern philosophy, be completely like western, you know, everything. But there's a concept and then people will keep like giving you that concept, but you're like, okay, so what am I supposed to do?

Eldar [01:52:17]:
He wants you to give him practical philosophy.

Oleg C [01:52:20]:
What do I do next? Do I wash my shoes? Do I fucking close the window? Do I open the window? What do I do next?

Vemir [01:52:25]:
Right, well, I mean establish a base. The advice I always give, I think for a lot. The first step I always give first step every time is, hey.

Eldar [01:52:39]:
Say it out loud.

Oleg C [01:52:40]:
No, sorry.

Vemir [01:52:41]:
Pay attention.

Eldar [01:52:41]:
Okay, why during the fire, what I told him, I say pay attention to yourself. Get up, get up and pay attention to yourself on how you actually feel.

Vemir [01:52:51]:
Not only how you feel, but like what is happening. Like the automatic processes will go unless you pay attention to them and you're going to react automatically. Pay attention means staying present, which means that even when you're in an.

Eldar [01:53:08]:
Even.

Vemir [01:53:08]:
When you're in an argument, you stay present and you're trying to learn whenever you get upset. Why am I upset? Feel that. Pay attention to what's going on running through your mind. And I honestly can tell you every time you pay attention, if you pay attention long enough, the answer is there. I agree, always there. But if you don't pay attention and you avoid or you fall, or you.

Eldar [01:53:31]:
Could just ask yourself, what am I looking out for?

Vemir [01:53:34]:
You are just observing what's happening in your body, in your mind, in your life, why the same stuff happens, why I reacted that way. You're paying attention.

Eldar [01:53:45]:
Why do I avoid this elder sounds like elderism.

Vemir [01:53:50]:
Who am I? Is part of paying attention because if you don't pay attention to who you are then you're going to identify.

Oleg C [01:54:03]:
I really don't.

Eldar [01:54:05]:
Who am I? Open the fucking window, bro.

Oleg C [01:54:10]:
No, but I really don't understand how who am I? Is in contradiction with your. It seems like a very solid eastern philosophy thing and asking who am I? Like I don't see how, I don't see why I contradict. Like I remember it's not theirs.

Denis [01:54:26]:
They have to take ownership of all these stupid.

Oleg C [01:54:31]:
No, I know elder trolls but I'm saying. But there's still like productively with it.

Eldar [01:54:45]:
If it works, it works. As you can clearly see it works. So you know what I mean? Let him keep.

Oleg C [01:54:53]:
Mike also combines bones.

Denis [01:54:57]:
When I need to engage in the theater that you created, I go right in with my sword, as you say. I have no problem with that either.

Eldar [01:55:03]:
So don't.

Vemir [01:55:03]:
Don't.

Eldar [01:55:04]:
I'm glad you have a con and.

Vemir [01:55:05]:
We both are able to have emotional place 100%.

Eldar [01:55:08]:
Why? Because.

Denis [01:55:12]:
It'S the kind you also catching the comments.

Vemir [01:55:15]:
That's why when I am catching the.

Denis [01:55:16]:
Comments, because a lot of non stop.

Vemir [01:55:18]:
Comments, but the fact that you respond is showing.

Eldar [01:55:23]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:55:24]:
They are going to.

Eldar [01:55:27]:
Tell them we're winning. Blame we're winning.

Oleg C [01:55:29]:
But veneer. What if you're, what if you're not practicing controlling your emotions?

Vemir [01:55:34]:
It's not controlling your emotions. I'm saying I'll just give you my. Like, it doesn't even.

Eldar [01:55:53]:
You can't believe you're doing this for free, right? Like, what the fuck is going on?

Denis [01:56:11]:
Commercialize philosophy.

Eldar [01:56:15]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:56:16]:
You've taken something fundamentally good, which there's.

Eldar [01:56:19]:
Plenty turn into very bad.

Vemir [01:56:20]:
Sounds like religion.

Denis [01:56:22]:
Some sort of like non stop, incessant, competitive, like elders, who's. Let's catch who's doing wrong today. I'm doing right today. I'm not gonna talk about any of my fault, but like, look at these people.

Oleg C [01:56:38]:
No, Elder is definitely a zealot preacher for sure. He's the high Sparrow. He's the high sparrow for sure.

Vemir [01:56:47]:
You are mad. They walk around, you know, they.

Anatoliy [01:56:52]:
Get.

Denis [01:56:53]:
Some conflict, like, oh, shit. Because, oh, it's. Life's a little harder than just like, reciting bullshit.

Oleg C [01:57:04]:
Elder is a bit of. A bit of it.

Denis [01:57:12]:
Miraculously, somehow.

Eldar [01:57:14]:
Yeah.

Denis [01:57:14]:
Like, made it into some kind of, like, competitive. It's like outrageous.

Eldar [01:57:21]:
You know, all that is an expense of you.

Oleg C [01:57:26]:
A lot of times I think there's always somebody, but a lot of times that. But then it does a lot of body motion. I think that's. That contributes to it. I feel like that triggers elder when he sees you. Like, fucking.

Eldar [01:57:45]:
If the elder arists became hyper sensitive to everybody else's bullshit, then be it. The Eldorists became hypersensitive to other people's bullshit and they call you out on it.

Denis [01:57:57]:
Let me, let me, you know, like, sorry, sorry.

Eldar [01:58:00]:
You know, time to police this fucking world.

Denis [01:58:04]:
You're running a mud.

Eldar [01:58:05]:
So you have fucking nonsense.

Oleg C [01:58:08]:
This is crazy because this is like Oprah and shit. Or Seinfeld. No, not Oprah.

Eldar [01:58:14]:
Jerry Springer.

Oleg C [01:58:15]:
There we go. Oprah, Seinfeld.

Denis [01:58:17]:
It's like Jerry Springer with no hosting in that, you know?

Vemir [01:58:28]:
So are you.

Denis [01:58:29]:
What? Okay, cool. Like. Like.

Oleg C [01:58:31]:
Yeah.

Vemir [01:58:31]:
Like, can I. Then it's like.

Denis [01:58:33]:
I don't know, something. I just. I. That's the only thing I don't.

Eldar [01:58:37]:
There's plenty of truth. Listen, I'm winning here, yo. Look, I have a friend. No, no, yeah, I am winning. I just can't fucking. I can't get away from their obvious. Bro, you know, I'm winning. I'm saying everything else is good.

Eldar [01:58:54]:
There's Gucci, bro. Maybe I'll figure this thing out one day. Yeah.

Denis [01:58:59]:
However, in this.

Vemir [01:59:00]:
No, no. You don't have to be enlightened to not take anything personally.

Oleg C [01:59:04]:
How do you work to that?

Vemir [01:59:05]:
Oh, there's a four agreements. It's like 30 pages in the text. Right? But it's like I can. I can break down of why I try not to take things personally because I have lived with myself my whole life.

Oleg C [01:59:28]:
I think the why is easy is the how.

Vemir [01:59:30]:
Know myself more deeply than anybody else. How could I therefore take your opinion more seriously than my opinion of myself again, also, most people are in their own mind space. This is perfect relevance. Most people are in their own mind construction dream world. So they're saying something about you from their point. How could they possibly have a directly accurate. They might strike sometimes and notice something you don't know or notice something that you're unaware of. And you should accept that as a gift.

Vemir [02:00:05]:
Whenever someone insults or whatever else, and I know it's wrong, it's just funny to me. And so if they're wrong, it's funny and I don't take it seriously or personally because they're wrong. If they're right, they're giving me a chance to learn something, to improve and become more conscious. So either way, I win. That's how I don't take things personally. I'm not enlightened.

Oleg C [02:00:28]:
Isn't there. Don't you lose those.

Denis [02:00:34]:
How do you feel that hard?

Oleg C [02:00:37]:
How do you.

Eldar [02:00:37]:
Okay, that's it.

Vemir [02:00:39]:
I also don't spend a lot of time around people who insult me. It's just not.

Denis [02:00:44]:
Well, that's a key, too. It's easier to like. I also don't.

Oleg C [02:00:47]:
You know what I mean?

Denis [02:00:48]:
I don't have.

Eldar [02:00:49]:
Sorry that the egos will be insulted. I mean, like, they deserve to be inside.

Vemir [02:00:52]:
I'm around, you know, the egos.

Oleg C [02:00:56]:
Wait, mere.

Anatoliy [02:00:57]:
But no ego.

Vemir [02:00:57]:
There's nobody insult. Right?

Oleg C [02:01:02]:
But how is that? Isn't there still a problem? Because you're saying you don't take it personally. Like, let's say eldar makes fun of you. I don't know. Whatever. Something. Some way. Whatever.

Vemir [02:01:12]:
Right.

Oleg C [02:01:13]:
He makes. I don't know. You talked about high society. He's always making high society jokes. Or my socks or your socks or whatever. And you know it's not true. Whatever. No, like, the high society thing is better.

Oleg C [02:01:23]:
You talk about high society. He makes. He keeps trolling you, like, doing assumptions. It's kind of funny. Whatever. Or then he, like, I don't insults you. It gets you somewhere real. But then, like, it's hard for you to communicate with people because there's already this, I don't know, let's say, joke about you with the high society.

Oleg C [02:01:43]:
You can't even say anything. Yeah, and now you're constantly misunderstood and it's counterproductive, correct? First of all, if you want to have a conversation with these people, or you want to even take some action.

Eldar [02:01:55]:
To that, to the outcomes of those conversations in the first place, so they can't have any power.

Vemir [02:02:00]:
I know that whatever you just said is out of my control. I'm likely going to be misunderstood. All I can do is articulate myself, be more consistent, learn more, and be authentic all the time. What's likely is that the things that are outside of my control, I can control. That's a really obvious thing to say. So him, you, some really hot chick misunderstanding me. Thank you. Anybody misunderstanding me is outside of my control.

Vemir [02:02:31]:
I don't like it. I do my best efforts to mitigate that. And if I'm gonna drop an expletive, someone thinks I'm a faggot or whatever, some stupid shit about me. I have people who are very close in my family, whatever. They have no concept of who I am. They have no idea and they don't really bother to investigate. And when people speak my name out of turn, or they say some stuff behind my back, or they act or misbehave in a way like that, twice my age, same age or younger, nothing happens. I just lose a little weight, I lose a little respect for them, or I don't take them as seriously.

Vemir [02:03:15]:
So it drops the same way that I build trust and I build respect. And a lot of that is silent. Do you understand? I spend more time with the people that are on the right direction. Less time, I develop more relationship. You have to, you know, once your vibration gets higher, once you people fall off. Yeah, I don't burn bridges, but some people can't handle me as I am. And then when he leaves us, then you'll know, like, new people will come in that are at your level, you enter new circles that are great, that are on your and you can learn from them. And it's like, as you must get inside and become more authentic because your life just improves naturally as a consequence.

Vemir [02:04:01]:
You water the plant, it grows, it bears fruits, period.

Oleg C [02:04:04]:
No, that makes sense. But like, in a practical sense, let's say you need something. No, I totally. Yeah, we're saying that, but I'm only saying sometimes in a practical sense. Maybe you need something from someone, right? Let's say, I don't know.

Vemir [02:04:19]:
Please think of an example.

Oleg C [02:04:21]:
Totally works with Eldar, for example. And if Eldar. He needs eldar for to do so to get something done. But he. But he's being misunderstood. I don't know. His job to make more money, for example. Or you want them to go to a nice restaurant with you.

Oleg C [02:04:38]:
That's high society. But they just keep fucking with you about the high society. Like, I. We don't trust where you want to go. Fuck that. And you're like, no, I have, like, you're like, I really want to introduce these people. This cool place, jokes aside, this is cool. And like.

Vemir [02:04:52]:
But you know, who's losing in that scenario? I have.

Oleg C [02:04:57]:
I guess, like, in a wise way they are. But you also lose, right? Because you want to have friends, you want people you connect with.

Eldar [02:05:04]:
He said, not those people.

Vemir [02:05:05]:
Listen.

Eldar [02:05:06]:
Those people weed out because they can't. That's right.

Vemir [02:05:09]:
Like, I had a great time somewhere. I want to share it with the people I love. They don't get it.

Eldar [02:05:13]:
Yeah.

Vemir [02:05:14]:
Who's losing?

Eldar [02:05:15]:
That's what we talked about earlier.

Vemir [02:05:16]:
I live.

Eldar [02:05:17]:
I was allowing every, you know, Joe small enter your life in relationships.

Vemir [02:05:20]:
Same thing here. I watch black and white movies, italian cinema. I have people that I love this guy, but I don't watch only Adam.

Oleg C [02:05:30]:
Sandler or that's the most stable microphone stand. Just totally knocks it down every five minutes.

Vemir [02:05:36]:
Does that make sense? Like, actually, a personal frustration of mine is I'm trying to work so damn hard so that I can give people the opportunity, let's say, the resources. Like, let's go to Brazil together. I want to show you. Just give them the space because I know they would do it. Right. But that's like a fun journey. It's like if someone is not interested in philosophy, I have a big passion for interior design and architecture. Someone doesn't care.

Vemir [02:06:07]:
I'm not going to chase them to love it. Same goes with me. I love myself. I'm not going to chase you to love me. It's the same thing. There's such a beautiful world out there. But if someone is rejecting it off of assumptions, it's the most common thing that's ever happened. Again, what you just said is the wisest thing.

Vemir [02:06:26]:
Who's losing at the end of the day? And it's a shame. But guess what, man? It's out of your control. That's the truth. You can put every effort possible, but the end result is not in your control, inshallah. Does that make sense? Does that answer your question sufficiently?

Eldar [02:06:43]:
Not for a very anxiety ridden guy, no.

Vemir [02:06:46]:
So, anxiety is amazing subject, but we can go into that or whatever you want. But I hope that really makes sense. Like.

Oleg C [02:06:57]:
I wouldn't mind going into dinner. That would be nice.

Vemir [02:07:00]:
Also, my brother, the. The idea that something. This is gonna sound, woo. Wow. But it's true. It comes from the inside out. And actually, the who is me and the coming from love and all this coming from the right space, that's where your results come from. If you're grasping to try to reach that subconscious level, is that you don't have it or you don't deserve it, or it's somehow unreachable, or you can't.

Vemir [02:07:26]:
Like, you're thinking, oh, they have something, and I might lose it. That energy projects you of not getting it. When you actually don't worry about the outcome, that's when it comes, baby.

Eldar [02:07:36]:
When you're actually doing it for the right reasons not to.

Vemir [02:07:39]:
That's how the universe works.

Oleg C [02:07:42]:
But a lot of times, when you're. When you're in a position of needing help, right?

Eldar [02:07:48]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [02:07:48]:
When you're in a position of needing help, you. You're often in that.

Vemir [02:07:52]:
Like, give a specific example.

Oleg C [02:07:53]:
Specific example.

Eldar [02:07:54]:
Like, yes.

Oleg C [02:07:57]:
No.

Eldar [02:08:01]:
Stay away from that one.

Oleg C [02:08:03]:
Wait, you want me to get it hard right now on the air? Give me that foot, bro. But, um.

Vemir [02:08:13]:
I don't know.

Oleg C [02:08:13]:
This doesn't fully cover it, but whatever. It's an example from today, actually, I'll use.

Vemir [02:08:17]:
Give me, like, an example. You.

Oleg C [02:08:19]:
This isn't exactly me needing help, but it's simple. So probably it'll be easily solvable, but there's other things that are complex. Well, this is just something so I don't waste time thinking about it off the top of my head. Today, I'm looking for an apartment. Right.

Vemir [02:08:32]:
Okay.

Eldar [02:08:33]:
Oh, my God.

Oleg C [02:08:36]:
The peanut gallery over here. So, in fair life disclaimer, I won't be able to finish this story. For how many years have I wanted to come back?

Eldar [02:08:54]:
Yeah, I would probably say probably for eight, but how many you've been looking for?

Oleg C [02:08:58]:
I've tried looking for a few years, but then something would always prevent me from.

Vemir [02:09:03]:
Of course it did. Of course.

Oleg C [02:09:04]:
So, today, I went to one of the complexes. I mean, it doesn't matter. Fucking hear this. Bergen properties.

Vemir [02:09:12]:
We have time, man.

Oleg C [02:09:14]:
Okay. And then. No, I'm just trying. As I'm saying it, I'm trying to think if this is a good. Good example. But it's more or less whatever this is. This is, this is a thing where somebody, where I need something from someone and it kind of puts me in like, a little bit of a position that's difficult. It's not quite we're asking for help, but still.

Oleg C [02:09:39]:
Huh. Awesome. So, so anyway, so there's, they have this, like the property manager, whatever. Is this woman just mina nice? She's very bitchy, right? And not at first you don't see it, but she's like, you know, like typical people who work these kind of jobs, they're kind of like, they don't have that, you know, customer service. When you're working for, I don't know, mercedes, you could do whatever you want and they have to be nice to you and courteous here, just like, yo, I got kids. Why wasting my time type shit, you know? Like, why you call, like, why even talking to me? Like, no, no.

Eldar [02:10:16]:
How many times did you call her?

Oleg C [02:10:18]:
No, not a lot of times. There.

Eldar [02:10:23]:
Be fucking no.

Oleg C [02:10:24]:
So I went, I went to see an apartment today there. Because all the apartments, she said herself, they're all different layouts. You got to see each one just to see what they're like. I want to see a two bedroom. I would see a two bedroom. So I kind of was like, okay, this one, I don't like it. It doesn't work for me, whatever. And she was kind of like, you know, I get distracted easy.

Oleg C [02:10:49]:
But, but, but fucking. No, I know. I get off track. Easy. I know it's okay, but I get off track.

Eldar [02:11:11]:
Elderism is affecting mindfully.

Oleg C [02:11:14]:
Shut down the fuck up. I'm looking for an apartment. I went, this bitch, right, this car, you know.

Denis [02:11:24]:
Yeah, I was, I came in last week to get the pot. I'm like, yo, standing desk hasn't been around.

Vemir [02:11:29]:
He's trying to.

Eldar [02:11:31]:
Yeah, that's my.

Denis [02:11:32]:
Hello.

Oleg C [02:11:33]:
Wait, was that my standing desk?

Eldar [02:11:34]:
That was your standing desk too. That's why I told you you guys would understand each other. Wow. He also extended that?

Phillip [02:11:40]:
Yeah, I can't say. Just get tired.

Eldar [02:11:48]:
Oh, comrade.

Oleg C [02:11:50]:
He said he just gets tired. So we're, this is a different universe.

Vemir [02:11:54]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [02:11:58]:
I have the enlightenment of pain. Yeah. Anyway, so, you know, she's showing it. And then I was kind of like, you know, talking about how I don't, you know, I didn't really like it, but, you know, I would like to see other apartments as they come up. That's normal, right? That's her job. Show people apartments. People aren't always like, cool. I saw it now.

Oleg C [02:12:17]:
I'm getting it right. It's like, you see it. That's the whole point that you might need to see a few before you get it right. I live in a very nice apartment now, but I would like to change location. I have to sacrifice quality of apartment. I understand that. And, like, I do have some elements of perfectionism. Perfectionism.

Oleg C [02:12:36]:
Right. But. And I understand that. But I understand there will be sacrifice. That's fine. Like, I'm not just like, I'm not there. I'm not like, oh, I'm gonna get a castle. Let me just keep coming, looking at it.

Eldar [02:12:46]:
No, no, not at all.

Oleg C [02:12:48]:
I think. No, I think I'm reasonable about these apartments.

Vemir [02:12:51]:
Right.

Oleg C [02:12:52]:
But anyway, my point is next. Yeah. She's like, well, you know, maybe these apartments are just not for you. I see you're kind of like this, like, perfect guy. You need everything perfect. You want nicely renovated. You need all the amenities, these apartments. I'm like, wait a second.

Oleg C [02:13:07]:
You know, I'm like. These are kind of assumptions. Like, I mean, are they accurate?

Eldar [02:13:11]:
No. No.

Vemir [02:13:11]:
Tell me what you said to her.

Anatoliy [02:13:13]:
I did.

Oleg C [02:13:13]:
I was like, okay, because here's the thing I want. I thought, like, if I could have free hands on tight, I would just smack, smack right away of boxes, check.

Eldar [02:13:23]:
Boxes that the apartment needed to fucking meet.

Vemir [02:13:25]:
No, that's not the important part. So what's the problem?

Oleg C [02:13:27]:
So my first. But I have to hold myself exploding inside. I want to kill her. But, um. And because, well, the number one problem was like, she's supposed to be a professional. This is already a stressful thing. Stress. Stressful thing for me, looking for an apartment.

Oleg C [02:13:42]:
And I feel a little bit like shit. I gotta find something. I gotta look. Let me. But, yeah, she's putting time and emotional pressure on me, and it makes me think worse and it's harder for me to concentrate, but. And she just keeps at me. And, you know, at this point, usually I would tell somebody, you know, like, yo, speak to me respectfully or whatever. However, she's a gatekeeper for this shit.

Oleg C [02:14:05]:
And these are actually the apartments I like more than other ones right here.

Vemir [02:14:09]:
Why do you think speaking your mind, she's a sin. Putting her in her place or putting him in his place, it's not a gender thing. Right. It's about putting somebody as a sheep. I'm saying, like, misconstrue putting a woman in place. I'm checking somebody.

Oleg C [02:14:25]:
They need it.

Vemir [02:14:25]:
If they're speaking to you disrespectfully.

Oleg C [02:14:28]:
Yeah.

Vemir [02:14:28]:
Why don't you say something about that? She might respect you and let you in and understand what she's doing. You are taking seven steps in your head and assuming if I make any waves, she's gonna drop the thing that I want. That's actually not how it works, so be mere.

Oleg C [02:14:47]:
I was firm because first I was, like, a little bit simping out, but then I was more firm. But I still try to maintain certain, like, composure. And I saw she was getting heated to where I risked her being, like, you know, she was kind of walking towards her apartment, too, where she would just keep walking and leave. Right, because she turned around. No, no. We're walking.

Eldar [02:15:11]:
We're talking.

Oleg C [02:15:12]:
We're walking. We're talking, right? And then she turns around and speaks to me. And then she's kind of like, does the, like, oh, looks like. You don't know, like, kind of like, whatever. And starts walking away. And then I say something. I just stand in one place and say it, and she turns around and keeps talking at me, and. But she goes to this, like, what are you talking about? Like, she's talking to me, like, I don't know, like a tea.

Oleg C [02:15:30]:
Like an angry teenager. Like, what are you talking about? What are you talking about?

Vemir [02:15:35]:
And I realized, like, any good negotiation, you have to be able to walk away. If you can't walk away, you're not.

Eldar [02:15:40]:
She walked away.

Vemir [02:15:41]:
He kept on saying, right.

Oleg C [02:15:43]:
So that. My point is. My point is, I'm in it, right? So I am here in a. In the position of, like, the weaker position, as I was saying. That's why I was giving that example. If you imagine you need help for. With someone, or you're pitching something to a group so you're alone, and then you have a group, and you need these people to comply with you. And it could be showing someone a restaurant.

Oleg C [02:16:09]:
But again, they don't go with you at a restaurant. You. They miss out. Right? But here. But here. But here, I'm miss out. If I either get her to fuck. Tell her to fuck off.

Oleg C [02:16:25]:
I'm open. I just want to finish the thing.

Denis [02:16:27]:
So either Mike's been doing it on eight years.

Oleg C [02:16:36]:
I just want to give him a second to talk. No, no. That sucks, bro. Yeah. Parker states is shit, bro. But park estates, the burgundian properties, is like, who am I to elderism, bro?

Vemir [02:17:08]:
Damn.

Oleg C [02:17:11]:
I know. A lot of humor. You gotta, like, say what? You don't mean to make it funny.

Eldar [02:17:15]:
You just want to shut them up, bro.

Oleg C [02:17:29]:
No, no, they're too small. Look, Dennis, we could talk about the specifics later. This is just more like, I'm interested to hear. Yeah, I'm hungry, too.

Eldar [02:17:40]:
Oh, yeah.

Denis [02:17:41]:
It's been eight minutes.

Oleg C [02:17:42]:
Yeah. You got a sandwich in there?

Vemir [02:17:45]:
Thank you, bro. Thank you, bro. What is that?

Denis [02:17:54]:
She's a total nut.

Phillip [02:17:56]:
We came up with that from the.

Oleg C [02:17:58]:
From Joe.

Eldar [02:18:00]:
Can we rename the podcast to total nuttering?

Oleg C [02:18:02]:
Yeah, totally. Notary. Damn, they all got cashews. Can do it.

Eldar [02:18:27]:
100%.

Oleg C [02:18:28]:
No, my point is, I had to talk. I was like, I kept trying to bring you back when she would do this, like, you know, teenage girl tantrum. She's like, oh, you know, you've been here three times, you know, and I'm like, wait, I've been here two times, you know, and I. And so I talked to her calmly and try to keep, like, standing up to her, like, assumptions, because I don't. I mean, later she's like, yeah, just call me in two months and I'll say if. I'll tell you if you have. Nice to meet you, you know, and whatever. But now I have this.

Oleg C [02:19:04]:
I feel a little nervous dealing with her because it's like anything I do that's not perfectly like, oh, my God, I love it. I'll take it. Here's my deposit is bad. Oh. And, I mean, I guess part of this was my ignorance. Maybe started it. Well, obviously she has not a great personality. Not a great personality.

Oleg C [02:19:25]:
Originally, I put. I did see an apartment two years ago. I put an application, and I gave $50 deposit, and then I decided. I decided not to move. Right. So I called her and I made an excuse.

Anatoliy [02:19:39]:
Wait, the same lady?

Eldar [02:19:40]:
Yes.

Oleg C [02:19:45]:
No, hold on. It happened one time. So I call. I called her. I'm like, hey, look, I spoke to my wife. Right?

Eldar [02:19:52]:
Who's your wife, by the way?

Oleg C [02:19:53]:
You are. So she works. She has to, like, be close to the city, so we're actually not able to move right now. You can open this up to somebody else. And I was like, you know, but the thing is, I was under the impression you put down the $50 deposit, so then if you don't show up, they just hit you for $50, you know, it's like a little punishment. And I did tell her. She's like, no, it took me a week to get that from you. I'm like, well, no, I'm usually on point with that kind of stuff.

Oleg C [02:20:23]:
I don't remember that. So I'm like.

Anatoliy [02:20:30]:
Yeah, what's the problem?

Oleg C [02:20:33]:
Okay. The problem is when somebody's very unprofessional.

Anatoliy [02:20:46]:
I feel like totally talking to much.

Oleg C [02:20:49]:
Yeah, totally. You're talking too much, bro.

Eldar [02:20:51]:
Stop. Vermeer. Haven't had a say yet. Let him talk. That's true.

Vemir [02:20:54]:
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna take advantage of that.

Eldar [02:20:58]:
We haven't heard from him in a.

Oleg C [02:20:59]:
While, so to like, whatever to qualify as some shit. Yeah. The thing is, I need an apartment. There's a certain limit of, obviously, supply. And there's people that are certain gatekeepers that do not allow you to look the way you might want to look. And they make you feel like a little nervous doing that, which, you know, which fucks it up for me. It's gonna make it harder for me to get an apartment. I don't want to be banned from them completely.

Oleg C [02:21:30]:
So, you know, maybe the eldar ism philosophy would tell her, like, go fuck yourself for talking to me like that. And then if she doesn't want to deal with you, talk to her manager or whatever. I don't know.

Eldar [02:21:39]:
Can I get a five minutes to do. Who am I on the side real quick?

Oleg C [02:21:44]:
Hold on, hold on. Where am I? I am not this apartment.

Eldar [02:21:48]:
Yeah. I am not this person. I'm not.

Anatoliy [02:21:50]:
I started saying, what's the problem?

Eldar [02:21:53]:
She wasn't going to nice. Yeah, he's scared to reach out to her again. Dude, what's the problem?

Oleg C [02:22:02]:
Wait, wait.

Anatoliy [02:22:03]:
No, but what problem are you trying to solve right now?

Oleg C [02:22:05]:
Okay. It is a problem because of certain contexts, right? Like for maybe somebody very calm. This would not be a problem.

Anatoliy [02:22:13]:
No, but what is the problem?

Oleg C [02:22:14]:
The problem is me as an anxious person. I'm trying to get an apartment and there's certain constraints which actually make it hard to find what I. It's possible, it's reasonable, like the budget, whatever. But it's more difficult than if I had just like unlimited, let's say, money. Just let me. Let me finish.

Anatoliy [02:22:35]:
Okay?

Oleg C [02:22:36]:
Yeah, but let me finish. So. And those apartments in particular happen to be one of the more, like, attractive ones for me and realistic solutions to my thing in Fairland. Right. Sometimes better ones come up, sometimes worse, because they're all really different. They have renovated ones, washer, dryer.

Anatoliy [02:22:56]:
What's the problem?

Oleg C [02:22:58]:
For me to find one that's going to fit, I probably need to see a few. I might need to see. I don't like it. It's okay. I come back, I see another one. I can work on her schedule as I've told her, I can come when she's available. She can just give me the key. She doesn't even need to walk out.

Oleg C [02:23:14]:
But she. Because of her just personality overall, I've heard this reputation, plus I've seen how she is. Plus, I guess that thing that happened with the deposit where really, usually I'm quite conscientious, so I. I did not know that was a big problem. Right? I didn't know. I didn't know that was like. I didn't know that was like a grievous.

Vemir [02:23:44]:
You're talking about how your goal is to get an apartment on his terms. Somehow it seems like the anxious to have moved to my goal is to have a great relationship with this woman. Right. And your, your anxiety, actually, your fear is not getting so in this world and everything, her attitude, the deposit conflict, people's opinions of you, all this stuff are just signals of you not getting what you want. But I mean, you are.

Oleg C [02:24:14]:
When somebody is a gatekeeper to something, you need and they misunderstand you. And they misunderstand you. Oh, I am in scarcity right now.

Vemir [02:24:23]:
No, you're not. There are apartments than this one complex.

Eldar [02:24:28]:
No, no, no. I know, but that's underestimate my friend's anxiety. You being not mindful right now.

Phillip [02:24:34]:
No.

Oleg C [02:24:34]:
Okay.

Vemir [02:24:34]:
I don't take anxiety with the weight that other.

Eldar [02:24:37]:
No, sure you don't, but for him. But if you, if you deal with anxiety the way he deals with trying to give a bridge here, he's got a thousand checkboxes. He's got a me. And that's, that's the car, that's the complex that he wants to pay.

Vemir [02:24:51]:
You can make.

Oleg C [02:24:56]:
The location. And what's in that apartment complex, it fits what I need way more than the other ones around. And if I lose that, it would be like a problem for me because.

Vemir [02:25:08]:
Have you done everything you can do?

Anatoliy [02:25:10]:
No, but I'm still trying to figure out what is the problem.

Vemir [02:25:13]:
He's trying to get something in world.

Eldar [02:25:15]:
And he doesn't know his anxiety met world.

Denis [02:25:18]:
You want to know.

Anatoliy [02:25:21]:
Like everyone to.

Eldar [02:25:22]:
See ten apartments, she's gonna allow him to only see probably one. That is the problem. She's fed up, bro.

Oleg C [02:25:27]:
That's the problem.

Eldar [02:25:28]:
She's fed up.

Anatoliy [02:25:29]:
No, no, but like.

Oleg C [02:25:31]:
No, but she. What do you mean? These people stay fed up, bro.

Eldar [02:25:33]:
No, yeah, I know this. Yeah, but you are like next level, bro. You know what I mean?

Oleg C [02:25:37]:
Like, but you didn't see me with. I don't, I don't, I don't walk around. Hey, this is too small. I look, I'm like, thank you for showing this. And she's like, do you want it? And I'm like, no, no, that was the beginning. I know, I know they're all the same shit, but here it's different layouts.

Anatoliy [02:25:56]:
No. Yeah.

Oleg C [02:25:58]:
I went to see Parker.

Anatoliy [02:25:59]:
Like, the way that he described it, it's almost like the way that it happened. Like he should know that this is what's gonna end up happening. Like an extremely anxious person coming to like a salesperson. Right.

Eldar [02:26:09]:
That.

Anatoliy [02:26:10]:
Trying to like, sell shit and that. And that knows a buyer from a non buyer. Right. If she's good at her job, is gonna disqualify the non buyer. And if she sees someone has very particular things that they're looking for or is very problematic.

Vemir [02:26:27]:
Which.

Anatoliy [02:26:27]:
Which, again, is definitely a judgment, but I know.

Oleg C [02:26:30]:
No, totally.

Eldar [02:26:30]:
You're right.

Oleg C [02:26:31]:
No, wait, wait. You're right.

Anatoliy [02:26:32]:
Okay.

Oleg C [02:26:33]:
Everything you're saying is on point.

Anatoliy [02:26:34]:
I would say the quickest way to solve this on honestly, it's a tell that you're gay and introduce me.

Oleg C [02:26:43]:
Would.

Anatoliy [02:26:44]:
Be the only way.

Oleg C [02:26:45]:
I have a wife.

Anatoliy [02:26:46]:
Why?

Oleg C [02:26:46]:
I told her I have a wife. No, but my wife is on the application with me. It's gonna change from ingot nowadays. Yeah, because she's not gonna let me in.

Vemir [02:26:57]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [02:26:58]:
These apartments, they don't. They don't accept like lgbt black anything, bro. No, I'm just kidding. But you know, dude, it's those old school landlords, you know, they're all fucking crazy.

Anatoliy [02:27:11]:
The way that you like the way that you are.

Oleg C [02:27:13]:
Wait, but why do I have to.

Anatoliy [02:27:14]:
What?

Oleg C [02:27:14]:
Cuz you're gonna negotiate for what you're.

Eldar [02:27:16]:
Doing right now is elderism, by the way. What's happening? He wants to hold your hand while you go to the apartment. He's gonna. No, no, but let me do the talking, daddy.

Oleg C [02:27:24]:
No, but, no but all his piece by piece, calmly telling me, like, his opinion that that makes it easier to listen to. Then elderism of the, I don't know, sufi kind or whatever. We go fucking. Just wave your arms at Denison.

Anatoliy [02:27:39]:
Yeah, no, I know. I think it's completely fine. I know that you are a complicated individual. Right.

Oleg C [02:27:46]:
Wait, that's why I'm in this situation in the first place. Otherwise I would have grabbed, like Dennis said, park estates for 1750 and moved.

Anatoliy [02:27:54]:
In the way that and had my desk outside interaction that you have with this lady completely makes sense. I think anybody here who knows you like, no one's like, is anybody surprised here?

Eldar [02:28:04]:
No, wait, but what if. Exactly how many times you reach out.

Anatoliy [02:28:08]:
To what you're saying, how it planned out completely, but totally.

Oleg C [02:28:12]:
What if I put in that thing that also sometimes I know how to, like, I don't know what it's called. Wear different masks. And with salesmen, I do try to. When I see, I know, because I did sales. No, like, I won't be as, like, annoying, let's say, to a salesperson as I would to somebody who I know, like, fucking. I could just push them to whatever.

Anatoliy [02:28:32]:
I know. But I know that, for example.

Oleg C [02:28:34]:
So I'll be very careful.

Anatoliy [02:28:35]:
My prediction would be that if, and.

Oleg C [02:28:36]:
I'll feed them a lot of shit.

Anatoliy [02:28:38]:
If I were to come into this.

Oleg C [02:28:39]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:28:39]:
It would be a completely different thing. And there's no way she would treat me the same way that she's treating you. And there's no way that I would have the same relationship with her like you have with you.

Oleg C [02:28:47]:
Very possible. No, but why. That's not, no, but I agree totally, totally. Would have a different, I like the connection. I agree totally. You would because you would come and calm. You have, like, negotiating, but you also have different desires and things that worry you. Right?

Anatoliy [02:29:06]:
No, I would be able to accomplish the things that you want to accomplish.

Vemir [02:29:09]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:29:10]:
By speaking to this individual in a very particular way.

Oleg C [02:29:13]:
Okay. Because you are an experienced salesman.

Anatoliy [02:29:15]:
Well, not, and I mean, like, I mean, like that, that helps in some things, but, like, I also don't have the same attachments as you have in this scenario, is one thing that that will help. And I will just know how to, like, read, re read her and talk to her in a way where we will be able to get the things that you want to get accomplished in this situation. I'm very confident, but, but, like, I like to the limited capacity that I know you, everything that you explained to me makes complete sense. Like, it's supposed to end up that.

Vemir [02:29:49]:
Way, which means that it sounds to.

Eldar [02:29:52]:
Me that, like, there's a lot of things in your life that end up this way.

Oleg C [02:29:55]:
I mean, I don't normally have somebody who's working a professional capacity. You lose their shit on me.

Eldar [02:30:00]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [02:30:00]:
And then I have to, like, talk to them and. No, but, like, there is something, usually it doesn't go to personal.

Vemir [02:30:08]:
Right.

Oleg C [02:30:09]:
It's not like, when is the last time you were in Tesla dealership or someone, someone's like, what are you talking about? What are you talking about?

Eldar [02:30:17]:
Understand, but, but most, I've dealt with salespeople before.

Oleg C [02:30:21]:
They don't.

Eldar [02:30:22]:
They don't, they don't.

Oleg C [02:30:25]:
But most salespeople do not react that way to me. So would, maybe this is a more difficult level.

Anatoliy [02:30:31]:
What, again, what happens, supposed to happen? Like, if you were telling that everything went smoothly, you saw the apartment. Everything was like, good. I would be like, holy shit.

Eldar [02:30:40]:
No way.

Anatoliy [02:30:40]:
Like, that would surprise me.

Oleg C [02:30:42]:
Yeah, no, but I mean, that's how most of my apartment viewings I ever had were. Like. But, yeah, I would go, you know, Craigslist hit somebody out, I don't know, ten years ago, whatever. I didn't move, but I saw an apartment, it was shitty. And I was like, okay, I guess this is what I'm gonna get for this price. I will look when I'm better off financially.

Anatoliy [02:31:06]:
And I. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Like, I mean, like, it's like you don't know how you want her to be a particular way on your terms.

Vemir [02:31:13]:
This is something under your control and something to learn how to deal with.

Eldar [02:31:16]:
This kind of person.

Vemir [02:31:18]:
You can't change who she is, how.

Eldar [02:31:20]:
To deal with that kind of person, or how to deal with yourself. It's around those types of people.

Vemir [02:31:24]:
What's in your. What's in your control is changing the input.

Oleg C [02:31:29]:
So, wait, but this came out. This came out from the thing. If we said to give an example of where somebody needs something and they could say, I don't need it, they're not attached to it.

Vemir [02:31:40]:
With dating, you really want this girl, all the powers in her. You got to change that method. You know, you're. You are so desperate for this apartment, you're willing to let her step all over you. And that's why you. You can. You can do all you can, and she still won't give it to you. Yeah, you have to accept that outcome, and you have.

Oleg C [02:32:01]:
Wait, what do you mean?

Vemir [02:32:02]:
You can be nice. You can change strategy.

Eldar [02:32:04]:
You can pay her.

Oleg C [02:32:05]:
No, I wasn't being nice. I was, like, nice and firm.

Vemir [02:32:08]:
Maybe not give a her. She still doesn't accept it. What do you do?

Denis [02:32:14]:
What can you do?

Eldar [02:32:15]:
Nothing.

Vemir [02:32:16]:
You're not gonna die if you don't get this apartment.

Eldar [02:32:18]:
Yeah, it's.

Vemir [02:32:19]:
The overall fixation on the outcome is driving all.

Oleg C [02:32:23]:
I'm definitely income. I mean, outcome fixated.

Vemir [02:32:27]:
So this is a huge mistake, right? If you go on a date, outcome fixated, you're either gonna turn into a huge monster. It's the same application. You have to do the same thing.

Anatoliy [02:32:40]:
If your outcome fixated, then, like, during the process of what's happening, you also be unable to not hold it. Attachments during the wait. So all of your experiences and what actually happened, like, I cannot take but your word.

Eldar [02:32:51]:
Yeah, but you underestimate how deep he is with this anxiety stuff.

Anatoliy [02:32:54]:
No, I'm not an estimate I'm understanding that what happened makes sense.

Oleg C [02:33:00]:
Biological fucking issues.

Vemir [02:33:10]:
People kill other people because they're biologically wired to become more aggressive and conflict situations. Is that an excuse?

Oleg C [02:33:17]:
Well, no. Excuse or not, it just is.

Vemir [02:33:19]:
Anxiety is a part of you. It doesn't define you, and it's overcomeable. This is a beautiful opportunity for you to overcome your anxiety.

Oleg C [02:33:28]:
To have to take her on a date or something.

Vemir [02:33:31]:
It would be more interesting of a story. I've been hearing about your washer for 20 minutes. You know, hey, shit. It's just a tease. I'm tired. So my voice sounds aggressive. Boredom is rubbing off on you. The whole point, motherfucker.

Oleg C [02:33:47]:
I trigger. I'm triggered.

Vemir [02:33:48]:
No, no. The whole point is, like, your anxiety is gonna project exactly what you don't want.

Eldar [02:33:56]:
No, your. Exactly what you need.

Vemir [02:33:59]:
No, no. Anxiety will cause you to get exactly the worst outcome.

Eldar [02:34:04]:
Yeah, that's right. Which is the best thing for you because you need to.

Oleg C [02:34:08]:
So how would you apply that thing you said in this situation? Right, because the thing is that when you want to show your friends a restaurant, they don't want to go. I can show some other friends, whatever, myself.

Eldar [02:34:19]:
Here, here.

Oleg C [02:34:20]:
It's literally like, this is. You could probably even have one of those, like, old indian script examples, right? There's a gate and there's a mean guy, and you got to get in the gate, but he's. He has a bad thing with you. You know?

Vemir [02:34:31]:
Are you persuasive? Charismatic? Do you know how to be diplomatic? To resolve conflict?

Anatoliy [02:34:36]:
What kind of question is this?

Vemir [02:34:38]:
There's like 40. There's like 40 methods that a lot.

Anatoliy [02:34:41]:
Of people consider me.

Eldar [02:34:42]:
So.

Vemir [02:34:42]:
Yeah, okay. And you're encountering someone that you're encountering someone that's beating all of your strategies. So you have to learn something else and you have to be okay with.

Eldar [02:34:53]:
Your shaft is showing, bro. Came from here and jumped into the thing.

Oleg C [02:35:03]:
Young dogs love annoying boulders.

Eldar [02:35:05]:
Yeah, she's a hammer.

Vemir [02:35:09]:
Not to get this apartment. Your goal is to get an apartment up to your standards. If you operate, if you're a beggar, if I operate from a scarcity mindset, you're going to project scarcity and never get what you want.

Denis [02:35:22]:
You're Archie, right?

Vemir [02:35:23]:
You have to realize that. I'm not kidding. You have options and you have to feel that you have options and you have to feel that if this option is done.

Anatoliy [02:35:33]:
No, but you're also open. Like, like. Like this advice. Also, it's like, it's hard in this, like, one scenario to fundamentally change the way that he.

Vemir [02:35:42]:
It's an exercise.

Anatoliy [02:35:43]:
He operates and think. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Oleg C [02:35:46]:
But, but look, when I have options, let's say it is girls or whatever else you're like, you fuck up with this one. There's another, there's another. This is a little more.

Vemir [02:35:54]:
How is your current method going?

Denis [02:35:57]:
Which one.

Vemir [02:35:58]:
How is your current method of which you're trying to get this going? Is it going well? No.

Oleg C [02:36:02]:
What, the apartment? No.

Vemir [02:36:04]:
So you have to change something.

Oleg C [02:36:06]:
No, for sure.

Anatoliy [02:36:06]:
Again, the solution.

Vemir [02:36:08]:
There are like, a lot of ways to do this. You can be more persistent and try not to take anything personally.

Eldar [02:36:16]:
Renounce everything.

Oleg C [02:36:17]:
No, but I think we're using that example to solve it through the lens of what Vermeer is preaching.

Anatoliy [02:36:23]:
Yeah, but it's not gonna work on you right now.

Oleg C [02:36:26]:
No, I'm not saying it'll work. I'm just wondering how.

Eldar [02:36:28]:
What is a person, what is shoes? And I'm gonna put my foot on.

Anatoliy [02:36:33]:
Your chest, then I could do it myself.

Vemir [02:36:36]:
You have to go right here and visualize because.

Oleg C [02:36:40]:
Hold on. What is the thing you said? Just we're giving examples of. You said, what, like living yourself and you can't control others. Right. Or that was. So then how do you apply it?

Vemir [02:36:53]:
See this situation for what it is. You're not seeing it for what it is. And it's very tense for you because something you want is not in your control.

Oleg C [02:37:06]:
Yes.

Vemir [02:37:07]:
So you have to assess whether it's in your control. What can you do to make this more in your control?

Anatoliy [02:37:14]:
It is full in his control.

Vemir [02:37:15]:
And then. No, I'm saying the outcome of the apartment, not fully in his control.

Eldar [02:37:21]:
No.

Vemir [02:37:22]:
She could hate possible. 05:00 shadow impossible.

Oleg C [02:37:26]:
Impossible.

Vemir [02:37:27]:
There is, there is a way.

Oleg C [02:37:29]:
All, I don't know. Legally, I don't think legally she can, like, not show me or not read to me.

Vemir [02:37:34]:
Right.

Anatoliy [02:37:36]:
The way that you approach it and the way that you handle it is the way the outcome is going to be. Like, it's.

Vemir [02:37:41]:
I could just decide tomorrow that. I'm saying the likely outcome is.

Anatoliy [02:37:47]:
But you're banking on that. You're banking that this is just an evil person on it.

Vemir [02:37:51]:
I'm saying that. Go to that place so you can accept it out.

Eldar [02:37:54]:
She's probably very reasonable. Yes. This is a very unreasonable person. Yeah.

Oleg C [02:38:09]:
Because you always high up every. And then the person, you know, you bring him down.

Vemir [02:38:14]:
I'm saying that he's this worst possible outcome he needs to accept. Then you work back and do everything you can.

Eldar [02:38:22]:
You have to be able to let it go.

Vemir [02:38:23]:
So what I'm saying is you have to empower. You have to get to the place where you're okay. If you lose, I don't get one there, and you're not there yet. That's the first step. The second step is once you get there, your behaviors can change. You don't have to put your whole life into these negotiations. You can be reasonable. You cannot be fearful when you think, you don't take it personally.

Vemir [02:38:45]:
When she gives you a bad response, you say, it's okay. It's another step towards my progress to get this apartment. I'll tell you, it will change the entire game. She knows that you're desperate. She can smell it. You have to never be desperate.

Eldar [02:38:59]:
He will take tea, leaves the door.

Vemir [02:39:01]:
It's the same with dating, bro.

Denis [02:39:03]:
Meditation.

Vemir [02:39:04]:
It's.

Denis [02:39:04]:
Everything's temporary.

Oleg C [02:39:15]:
No, it's. What do you mean? This is. This wasn't like, to try to ask you guys for advice how I can deal with it. It was just. I heard something that related.

Eldar [02:39:26]:
So I'm just trying to understand because.

Oleg C [02:39:28]:
I hear a lot of times when it's abstract shit like living your own results, fuck everybody else. But then eventually a lot of people end up with, like, no friends or no apartment or whatever because they're just living in.

Vemir [02:39:42]:
Ridiculous manipulation.

Eldar [02:39:45]:
No, but.

Anatoliy [02:39:46]:
So he said that he had this problem, right? I'm offering him a solution.

Eldar [02:39:50]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:39:50]:
Why is he not taking it?

Denis [02:39:51]:
No, no, that's a good question.

Eldar [02:39:54]:
Right now he can't tell you.

Denis [02:39:56]:
Real quick. Real quick.

Oleg C [02:39:58]:
Wait, totally. But why do you think I'm not taking it? I just wanted to hear. The reason we brought up this example was to illustrate Vermeer's point.

Denis [02:40:04]:
Yo.

Eldar [02:40:04]:
Yeah.

Denis [02:40:04]:
Can I say one thing? Just tie in.

Oleg C [02:40:06]:
I was just, like, tying that out before hearing your. I would like to hear your. It's interesting.

Denis [02:40:10]:
Can I tie in the subject?

Oleg C [02:40:11]:
I know you're experienced in this kind of thing.

Denis [02:40:13]:
Can I tie in the subject real quick?

Oleg C [02:40:15]:
Yeah, you can tie in the subject.

Denis [02:40:19]:
I was gonna just tell him. He keeps saying that it was Mike reiterated with this guy saying, like, yeah, just where am I that. You heard them say it over and over.

Oleg C [02:40:37]:
They say that.

Denis [02:40:40]:
But the reality is.

Oleg C [02:40:41]:
Right.

Denis [02:40:42]:
Hold on, let me out. I asked him, like, right now, he's giving you. He's giving you that logical conclusions, ABCD. They're both right. Right. But, like.

Eldar [02:40:51]:
And in the moment.

Denis [02:40:51]:
And Mike is Mike's. Mike's point with me is like, yeah, but that the meditation is temporary. Like, you're listening to this.

Oleg C [02:40:58]:
Right.

Denis [02:40:59]:
And then you got to go out there and you feel empowered for a moment, but then it could, it can wear off. And his thing is that always happen.

Eldar [02:41:05]:
Of course.

Denis [02:41:06]:
And what I'm saying is, in this situation, I asked them like, could you not apply such a theory where if you have a problem such as this and you wanted to, let's say it was your thing, nothing you have to say. You sat with yourself for an hour and trying the, who am I? Meditation, whatever the fuck you call.

Oleg C [02:41:20]:
Right.

Denis [02:41:21]:
To clear the thoughts. Could it possibly be that that state of mind that you enter after such a practice kind of is like, wait a minute. That, you know, like nonsense. Why would come to certain conclusions yourself as well, right?

Oleg C [02:41:34]:
Like, well, yeah, absolutely. That's why I don't understand why they think you're. But how do you know.

Eldar [02:41:46]:
It'S like.

Oleg C [02:41:47]:
A tenant of ancient philosophy, Mike X himself.

Eldar [02:41:55]:
Who am I?

Oleg C [02:41:55]:
And then lies.

Anatoliy [02:42:06]:
There's two different things potentially solve here.

Eldar [02:42:09]:
You said that one, like.

Denis [02:42:14]:
Did you guys have a response?

Oleg C [02:42:16]:
He said he loves you or something.

Anatoliy [02:42:18]:
No, there, there's two like potentially things to solve here. One is like potentially a quick short term thing and one is potentially like a long term thing.

Denis [02:42:27]:
He gave the short term.

Eldar [02:42:29]:
No.

Anatoliy [02:42:30]:
So the short term is this, if he has an attachment to get this problem, right, I'm pretty confident that I can offer, like, I mean, me or me elder Mike maybe together, right?

Oleg C [02:42:41]:
Yeah, I'm saying we can.

Anatoliy [02:42:43]:
We can.

Eldar [02:42:44]:
We can.

Anatoliy [02:42:47]:
Yeah, we, yeah, I'm pretty confident and offering a solution to that problem of getting an apartment in this place. I mean, of course, if there's ones that are available right now, the longer term solution, right. Is like, if you ask a question, why are these kind of situations happening to me? Right. If that's his question. If that's his question, right. That will take a long time of coming back and the individual having the desire to come back into the philosophy bubble, right. And give the opportunity to learn and then of course go back into the world, apply.

Oleg C [02:43:27]:
And learn more sustainable long term.

Anatoliy [02:43:31]:
Well, I mean, I mean, I mean, like, if you want to be better your own man, if you want man what?

Oleg C [02:43:36]:
By truck, by practicing these things and maybe getting better at them and then working on other facets, wouldn't it be better for him to do the. Who am I?

Anatoliy [02:43:45]:
Well, if it's going, if it's going to work for him, yes. If, like, if it's going to work, yeah, no, I'm talking about in this case, there's no logical conversation no, none that anyone here can have off of, like, one sitting to, like, change the way that he operates or change the way he do things if he has, like, one.

Denis [02:44:10]:
Meditation.

Oleg C [02:44:11]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:44:13]:
That's why I'm advising you to keep doing it.

Denis [02:44:15]:
As much I appreciate it. It seems very sincere. I'm doing it. It's helping me a lot.

Eldar [02:44:20]:
Thank you so much.

Denis [02:44:21]:
When I step into your dungeon, I play with the shark.

Anatoliy [02:44:31]:
Yeah, this is not gonna work.

Oleg C [02:44:32]:
How would that conversation look like? No, me personally, I'm just getting the.

Eldar [02:44:35]:
Apartment or fixing your thing. Which one?

Oleg C [02:44:37]:
No, I guess it would be getting because this is a short term goal. Not, like awoke.

Vemir [02:44:41]:
Not.

Oleg C [02:44:41]:
Not awakened.

Vemir [02:44:42]:
Right.

Oleg C [02:44:42]:
Just get in the shit. I'm trying to get the coke. People, like, grow up being light. And I'm like, no, I want the crack. Coke. And so they said, all right, we're gonna get you. I'm scratching.

Anatoliy [02:44:53]:
Yeah, no, like the.

Eldar [02:44:55]:
What?

Anatoliy [02:44:55]:
I mean, like, I like you. You're asking, like, what I would do or say to her.

Oleg C [02:44:59]:
Yeah, what would you.

Anatoliy [02:45:00]:
Well, why are you asking me this?

Oleg C [02:45:04]:
Because you mentioned I know you like.

Anatoliy [02:45:06]:
No, see, I think this is part of the anxiety that got him in trouble with. To begin with.

Eldar [02:45:09]:
No.

Oleg C [02:45:09]:
Coming out because you brought it up as a thing.

Anatoliy [02:45:12]:
You know what?

Oleg C [02:45:13]:
No, because you brought up the topic. So you're like, yo, there's this. But then it's like, okay, so what is this?

Anatoliy [02:45:19]:
Yeah, I mean, like, I.

Eldar [02:45:20]:
First.

Anatoliy [02:45:20]:
First I would need to speak to you to see exactly what, like, you're looking for. Right. And, like, what?

Eldar [02:45:29]:
You're gonna realize that you're gonna disqualify him.

Anatoliy [02:45:31]:
You're gonna say, but, yeah, but, yeah, yeah. I'm looking for a stove on the ceiling.

Eldar [02:45:37]:
Yeah. There's not one apartment we can see.

Anatoliy [02:45:39]:
Here that has one.

Eldar [02:45:40]:
I can't cook upside down here.

Vemir [02:45:42]:
Like.

Anatoliy [02:45:44]:
Yeah, that's the case.

Vemir [02:45:45]:
Yeah, yeah. Have you, uh, tell. Told her your criteria?

Eldar [02:45:55]:
How many times?

Oleg C [02:45:58]:
I haven't told her.

Vemir [02:45:59]:
What?

Oleg C [02:46:00]:
I have not told her.

Denis [02:46:01]:
No, but you said that.

Vemir [02:46:02]:
Wait a second.

Eldar [02:46:02]:
Why don't you email the list? Hold up.

Vemir [02:46:04]:
Wait. Um. Why haven't you told her your criteria? That would be better.

Eldar [02:46:08]:
Because he doesn't want to get laughed at. Oh, no, no, no.

Vemir [02:46:10]:
Because he has the whole group.

Oleg C [02:46:13]:
Um, why haven't you told her certain criteria? But I realize a lot of maybe certain, like, certain apartments, if I see them, it might be like, you know what? This layout works well enough.

Vemir [02:46:25]:
Fair enough.

Oleg C [02:46:26]:
Where? Fuck the laundry machine. I'll go to the basement.

Vemir [02:46:28]:
Let me ask question if. Which one of you has the. Which one of you and her has the information about all how the apartments look like in the layout? It's her.

Eldar [02:46:40]:
So what I'm able to say to that.

Vemir [02:46:42]:
So why don't you. Why wouldn't you just send her your criteria, honestly, and then she can show you the apartments that fit the criteria the best.

Oleg C [02:46:52]:
Okay. So I think. Well, for sure, I think you get to probably a downfall of my thing. Like, the problem inside me, which is also causing this, which I was gonna mention, please, that. Yeah, I am. I guess a lot of times when I can't find the, like, the best, because whatever. I have OCD, right. I'm always trying to optimize, you know? So when I can't find that, the problem is that I don't always set exact criteria or goals, clearly.

Oleg C [02:47:24]:
And that definitely is also an obstacle. Right. If you're like, hey, I need red shoes. You call somebody who works in the store, they're going to tell you all the red shoes they have. But maybe you're like, I. Like, I need red shoes. But if they're white and look like that, that would be sick. I'd probably take those two.

Oleg C [02:47:41]:
So all of a sudden, you're kind.

Anatoliy [02:47:42]:
Of like, yeah, he's an extremely particular and complicated person and a difficult person to deal with. This is hundred percent. No, that's. That's 100%. And if you're a sales rep, like her, for example, and she may not be answering her and answering him. Answering the right questions, or, like, it's a common thing.

Vemir [02:48:03]:
It's called the choice paradox.

Eldar [02:48:05]:
Oh, yeah.

Vemir [02:48:05]:
Yes. I don't know what that is.

Anatoliy [02:48:08]:
If you open the phone and give. Listen. Reading, I'm gonna shoot you.

Vemir [02:48:14]:
There's a book, actually.

Oleg C [02:48:15]:
How can you be against that?

Denis [02:48:16]:
That's the right one.

Vemir [02:48:17]:
The book is, like, about blue jeans. Like, back in the day, they had two jeans in the store. You pick one and you go, I'm happy. Now, you go into jeans, a thousand options, and you pick one, and you leave home disappointed because of all the other options that were out there. And this is, like, a really big thing today. Like, everybody's unhappy with their partners, with their job, because they always think something better is out there.

Oleg C [02:48:42]:
So for me, twofold environment and me combined explosion.

Vemir [02:48:47]:
Fair enough. So the actual problem is the commitment issue. And what you're not seeing right now is that by not making a decision, you're doing the worst thing, which is not making any decision, which gets you the worst outcome, which is not getting any. Brother, are you a bouncer what is he doing?

Eldar [02:49:13]:
Yeah, you do.

Denis [02:49:14]:
We're gonna make it, you know.

Eldar [02:49:14]:
Oh, yeah, we always do. One day. Not today, but one day.

Vemir [02:49:20]:
This is like a core problem of anxiety, but the problem is extended to the max. Your whole life is wasted not doing anything.

Oleg C [02:49:28]:
Yes, and I know this is stuff I'm trying to work.

Vemir [02:49:32]:
The problem is, it's like you have. You have, like, probably a very analytical mind, which is great. What an advantage. But the negative symptom of an analytical mind is overthinking. Analysis, analysis, paralysis. All the stuff. You're saying it as I'm saying it.

Oleg C [02:49:53]:
Yeah, I know. Like, I've gotten to that. Where am I? Myself?

Anatoliy [02:49:59]:
Like, the solution is, like the park estates.

Vemir [02:50:10]:
The solution is two things. First of all, you have to separate what's in your control, what's not under your control. The second thing you have to do is take way more action. Are you just waiting on this woman for this one apartment building, or are you looking at other apartments?

Oleg C [02:50:27]:
I'm looking at other apartments.

Eldar [02:50:28]:
Yeah.

Vemir [02:50:28]:
How much? Enough to your.

Oleg C [02:50:33]:
Not super. So here's. Because I'm specific. A lot of times my goals are maybe a little ridiculous. I grew up in Fairland. I wanted to move back here for a long time because, I don't know, it just close to places and people and stuff that I enjoy, which is in a practical sense, too, it works for me. Right. I like going hiking.

Oleg C [02:50:52]:
It's 20 minutes from going hiking. My mom lives in Farrell. A lot of times I gotta go help her out. It's closer to. I live in Jersey City. It's the opposite of my environment. Right.

Vemir [02:51:03]:
So you should see every apartment in Furlong, you know what I'm saying?

Oleg C [02:51:08]:
For many years.

Vemir [02:51:09]:
And hit this woman up nonstop.

Denis [02:51:11]:
And first, all your criteria.

Vemir [02:51:12]:
And take risks already.

Anatoliy [02:51:14]:
No, but you have to understand the same thing is going to happen.

Vemir [02:51:17]:
Well, he's not taking enough action.

Anatoliy [02:51:19]:
No, but if you take.

Eldar [02:51:20]:
If you need to move for eight years or no.

Oleg C [02:51:28]:
Well, no, I came back from Latin America eight years ago.

Eldar [02:51:31]:
Anything that. Just keep doing what he's doing. And that's searching for the right apartment elder.

Oleg C [02:51:35]:
But when you say he's been waiting to move for eight years, it sounds like all I've been doing is.

Eldar [02:51:39]:
You don't have to defend the point in one place.

Oleg C [02:51:41]:
I know. So for elders turning into Dennis right now. No, but you're gonna give him the wrong info.

Eldar [02:51:48]:
I know, but he understands I'm trolling. It's only been three.

Vemir [02:51:51]:
I'm sorry, what's his name?

Eldar [02:51:53]:
It's only been three, three years.

Oleg C [02:51:55]:
Because, look, there's two specifications, two verifications that need to be made. Number two, with eight years, I would also go. I would live other places. I would come back. So it's not like there was other things going on. And then the other one is financially, it was a problem a lot of the time. Now, finally, I have the right financials and ready to move. Although all the apartments fucking prices went up $400 each.

Eldar [02:52:19]:
While you were waiting. While I was waiting for a little bit longer.

Oleg C [02:52:23]:
But I was also trying to do the financially responsible thing, which somebody advised me to do. And this person knows me when I was financially reckless. And they did, you know, they gave me think, good financial advice or as much as they could give, you know, maybe. Maybe the person shot me in the foot with that.

Eldar [02:52:40]:
Yeah, not the smart people did that to you.

Oleg C [02:52:42]:
Yo, bro. Maybe what Eldar have told me to do.

Eldar [02:52:47]:
I already told you, bro. He told you the same thing. I said, go and live your fucking life. You've been talking about this apartment that you want to move out for the longest time. I don't know how many years already I've been hearing this. You keep stalling because you fucking know your anxiety, your problem. Move out and enjoy your fucking fair long. You said, I want to go hiking.

Vemir [02:53:02]:
I want to come here.

Eldar [02:53:03]:
I want to enjoy my friends. That is where the fucking importance is.

Oleg C [02:53:06]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [02:53:07]:
Not the apartment, the fucking apartment.

Oleg C [02:53:09]:
But because of my particulars.

Eldar [02:53:10]:
I get it.

Vemir [02:53:11]:
Your particulars are, I need a comfortable.

Oleg C [02:53:14]:
Place to live because of my.

Vemir [02:53:15]:
It's yours. You're. No, no. What?

Eldar [02:53:18]:
It's actually because what you're saying is I want to continue to be sick, and I'm not willing to change, and I need these particulars, and they're my fucking prison. And I'm okay with living in this fucking prison. That's what you're saying. That's why I don't have no more advice for you, bro. That's why I'm elderly now, again, it's.

Vemir [02:53:32]:
Just totally, like, a mental blocks. And you've constructed this prison inside, and nothing will be good enough for you. Thank you. And it's not like something that's permanently attached to you. Get an apartment that's not up to your standards and be okay with it and see what happens if you survive. And then if not, you have to.

Oleg C [02:53:55]:
I'm not gonna lie. Every time I've done something like that, I did regret.

Eldar [02:53:59]:
Of course.

Vemir [02:54:08]:
What I'm saying is you're afraid, right? And that's a very very scary thing to be afraid. But you're. You're not going to improve it until you face the. The beast directly, whether it's dealing with this woman, picking a substantial apartment, trying new methods. You're just going to have to overcome this because you care about yourself and you want to be better. And you have no idea the positives on the other side. You're thinking, okay, I'll be close to this. I'll hike.

Vemir [02:54:40]:
But maybe you go in, you meet someone in the hallway. Just say yes to life. You. You don't know everything.

Eldar [02:54:47]:
Yes, man. Yes.

Vemir [02:54:49]:
What I'm saying is, yes.

Eldar [02:54:50]:
Yes. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. There's only one word, and the word is.

Vemir [02:55:04]:
Fuck.

Oleg C [02:55:04]:
No, bro, I love that movie. I remember Sergey was telling, preaching that.

Vemir [02:55:10]:
To me for a while, but. But the answer is, like, before he became AI.

Eldar [02:55:16]:
Stop him. Yes.

Vemir [02:55:17]:
Yes, sir. Yes.

Eldar [02:55:19]:
Yes. Oh, my.

Vemir [02:55:25]:
You actually don't know what's good for you. You might think you know it's good.

Oleg C [02:55:30]:
I agree with you.

Vemir [02:55:31]:
You think that if you have all your ducks in a row like this, you're gonna be happy. Not true. Another stone is gonna turn with worse.

Oleg C [02:55:38]:
That's what drives me a little time.

Vemir [02:55:39]:
Yeah, but.

Oleg C [02:55:41]:
I know it's wrong. But I can only handle one thing at a time.

Vemir [02:55:43]:
This is the core thing, is you doing nothing is the worst sabotage. And you have to, like I said, just pay attention without judging yourself. Why am I doing this? What, am I escaping? You are afraid of being judged for your decision. I'm gonna judge by yourself, especially. But it's a lot of build up of. It's like, imagine if for 20 years, I was like, I gotta find the right partner, but those lips are too busy. So you miss out on 20 years of dating and positive relationships, and then what happens? At the end of 20 years, you don't know how to deal with women, so you're not gonna get the top tier woman that you were dreaming of. Oh, my God.

Eldar [02:56:32]:
That's disgusting, Mike.

Vemir [02:56:33]:
It's like jerking off in the fucking corner. The point is, like, you have to directly engage with these problems, and you have to make mistakes. You're afraid of making these mistakes. And I think you're aware of all this. It's just like asking, when was the.

Eldar [02:56:46]:
Last time you jerked off?

Oleg C [02:56:48]:
What about, for example?

Vemir [02:56:49]:
He's doing team of retention, though. Yeah, that's my boy right there. I'm building the brakayama roots. I heard jerking off us. Like, I haven't heard that in a long time.

Oleg C [02:57:00]:
What about, let's say you have, I don't know, a back problem. And you're choosing a mattress that you can sleep on. And then there's this couch available.

Eldar [02:57:08]:
The older problem is they're not physical.

Vemir [02:57:11]:
First of all, you have a privilege of over neuroticizing your life. Guys who used to sleep on, people sleep in the trenches. Go.

Eldar [02:57:19]:
Go join the Ukraine war right now.

Vemir [02:57:23]:
No, today, people sleep on dirt. I'm saying you to pick a Duke Duxana, which is the most expensive mattress, latex, and then the foam.

Oleg C [02:57:33]:
And you grew up in this society, but you're not healthy like those guys. However, imagine you have just an accident.

Vemir [02:57:40]:
However, my friend, if you step back and you realize how lucky you are to live in this society, to live in this world, to have these privileges, when you step back and you get a little disappointed your friends didn't go the place you wanted to, you didn't get the apartment you fucking wanted to, the girl rejected you. You're not dying. There's people who are dying. There are worse problems. And you can overcome these issues when you have a perspective that the stakes are not that high. Dude, that's.

Eldar [02:58:07]:
Yes, they are. It's life and death every time.

Vemir [02:58:10]:
You know, it's like, it.

Oleg C [02:58:11]:
No, but for real, imagine you. Come on. Imagine your back is fucked up because you got a car accident. You need to find the right. Whatever bed so you could have sleep and not be in pain. You could do the, like, wing it, right? Like, it's not that big. You know, stakes are not high, whatever. And then you just end up sleeping on some shitty thing, and then you spend your money on that when you can't afford something to change it.

Oleg C [02:58:31]:
Now you can't afford or not?

Vemir [02:58:33]:
Because I would buy a mattress and work to get a good mattress and buy that good mattress. It's just a progress over time.

Oleg C [02:58:41]:
No, you. You worked. You got that mattress. It was the wrong one because you just pulled the trigger without doing a lot of research.

Vemir [02:58:48]:
Well, I would do maybe a half hour of research, not four years of research. Oh, there's, like, stuff that, you know, I mean, there's a range. Consideration and overthinking. Right.

Anatoliy [02:59:01]:
What's the point of the example, though?

Oleg C [02:59:04]:
What do you mean?

Eldar [02:59:05]:
He just wants to show more for.

Oleg C [02:59:07]:
Me a certain level of apartment. I kind of need it.

Denis [02:59:10]:
Just for clarity.

Oleg C [02:59:13]:
No, to accommodate certain. Whatever problems that I have. Like what if I didn't have it?

Anatoliy [02:59:18]:
I wouldn't want people to have a.

Eldar [02:59:19]:
Bad interpretation of that. Yeah, exactly.

Anatoliy [02:59:23]:
Can you tell us what you're looking for in an apartment?

Vemir [02:59:25]:
Yeah. What is the problems that. I don't understand what that is.

Oleg C [02:59:29]:
You want to hear my fucking list?

Denis [02:59:31]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [02:59:35]:
I think that. I realize my dennis is reluctant to share, though, because, you know, Dennis shares, and it's like instead of having a productive kyle, you just make fun of him.

Eldar [02:59:45]:
We invite you. Say your nonsense, bro.

Oleg C [02:59:52]:
I want to eat.

Eldar [02:59:53]:
Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You didn't say anything, anything decent here on the podcast, nor to fucking earn. Earn a slice of pizza, even.

Vemir [03:00:02]:
Are we getting food?

Eldar [03:00:03]:
We can, but, like, this guy is stalling. Say something.

Oleg C [03:00:06]:
What do you want me to say?

Eldar [03:00:07]:
Look, he's trying. You deleting now. Don't delete that stuff. I saw. I saw. What?

Oleg C [03:00:11]:
You're like that woman. What do you mean, deleting?

Eldar [03:00:13]:
Searching. Yeah.

Oleg C [03:00:15]:
Bro, you don't even know how I work. Okay, Chinese, but no way.

Eldar [03:00:19]:
This is funny.

Oleg C [03:00:20]:
I can't do this.

Eldar [03:00:21]:
You understand? You understand? You understand? It is. Yes, it is. You know why? Because he tapped in a little bit. He thought a little bit. He understood, and now all that shit in there has to go against what he just fucking said, and it's fucking embarrassing. Nothing.

Anatoliy [03:00:40]:
You say them. Read it out loud.

Oleg C [03:00:41]:
Right. Now I live in an apartment. I pay a $1,000 for the apartment, okay? And before that, I lived in a decent place. Before that, I lived in a decent place. So I'm used to living in a decent place. I have an open kitchen, everything nice, renovated, whatever. I have. Yeah, I have a.

Oleg C [03:00:58]:
You know, I control my own thermostat. You know, like, unlike those apartments, I have a backyard. I have a grill, gas lined in centrally. Can you list out what I have a fucking. My car parks right near the driveway. Easy load, unload, etcetera. Right? So those qualities, it would be like for me, they're almost standard. I understand.

Oleg C [03:01:21]:
I have to sacrifice some of them to move somewhere else, unfortunately. But it's hard for me to decide which ones I can sacrifice, which ones I can't altogether. They make up certain comforts for me, which also help alleviate some of my. Whatever, physical and health. And I mean anxiety stuff. Right? So, like, looking for something 600 plus. 650 plus square feet. Right? So, for example, there's apartment complex, hollow run.

Vemir [03:01:48]:
They're too small.

Oleg C [03:01:49]:
Just small size.

Vemir [03:01:50]:
That seems like a standard apartment.

Oleg C [03:01:52]:
Yeah. I'm looking for a closet, storage space. It doesn't have to be all storage space, but just some places I went, they have one closet in the whole place.

Vemir [03:02:02]:
You know what I mean?

Oleg C [03:02:03]:
Like, I don't know where I'll put clothes. I have skiing gear. I have camping gear. I have fucking. So my living room is going to be like this.

Vemir [03:02:13]:
No, just one.

Eldar [03:02:15]:
No.

Oleg C [03:02:17]:
I mean, my mom lives down the street, but she's very particular about soaring shit at her house. That would have been a great solution. Laundry in the unit. Because I have lived both ways where it's not in the unit.

Vemir [03:02:28]:
Okay, next one.

Oleg C [03:02:29]:
Right? Because running to the basement, it becomes a task. Where I have it in the house, it's not a task. I'm just doing it while I'm doing other things. Some of this stuff, again, it's not a big deal, but don't force me. It would be nice to have yard access. Not required. It would be nice if I could just put a grill somewhere, because a lot of times I cook. I hate cooking.

Oleg C [03:02:53]:
I wouldn't say I'm super good cooking. No. A lot of times, a lot of the food I cook is just done on the grill, and it's a quick way to cook. You know what I mean? People say air fryer, whatever. It still takes longer than the grill, and I don't have experience. It's not a requirement. Again, most departments, you're not going to have a grill open, kit open, just like a layout of the apartment. You know, when there's a.

Oleg C [03:03:13]:
I went where Dennis said, fair lawn, park estates. And, like, just the way the layout is. It's not even the square footage as much as the layout. There is nowhere for me to put, even the work desk. When you put a bed, you put a couch, a tv, a dining table. There's nowhere.

Vemir [03:03:26]:
There's just practically what else is, right?

Eldar [03:03:29]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [03:03:30]:
These are things that would be just nice. Like if there was an open kitchen instead of walls, broken down walls nearby, parking. A lot of times, you know, because I have Airbnbs, I load on the tools, shit like that. And preferably, it would be on the first floor. I mean, I would look at second floor, but.

Vemir [03:03:47]:
Okay, so why wouldn't you send these people an email saying, these are required and these are optional?

Eldar [03:03:55]:
There's more in here.

Oleg C [03:03:57]:
No, that's all there is, I'm saying.

Vemir [03:03:59]:
Okay, so with that list, and then people will search for you and find an apartment to your standards, and you'll find it a lot easier.

Oleg C [03:04:06]:
The apartments in my price range, they don't have. They sometimes have.

Vemir [03:04:10]:
So you understand the natural conflict. You cannot have a Jersey City apartment for a Jersey city price. In Fairlawn.

Oleg C [03:04:19]:
It's not even a Jersey city.

Vemir [03:04:22]:
No, I'm saying that if you're looking in fair lawn. Yeah. It's like if I wanted to go into Manhattan.

Oleg C [03:04:28]:
No, I understand what you're saying.

Vemir [03:04:30]:
Apartment, it doesn't make sense. So you either pay more and keep your safety and comfort.

Oleg C [03:04:35]:
I've off my budget a couple times.

Vemir [03:04:37]:
Okay. Is it sufficient?

Oleg C [03:04:43]:
It's under 2100.

Vemir [03:04:45]:
Are you being realistic enough that that can buy you what you need?

Oleg C [03:04:47]:
Yeah, not what I want, but what I.

Vemir [03:04:50]:
So why don't you send. This is my budget range. Can you find something? I've done this.

Oleg C [03:04:55]:
I could probably get a couple of these with the budget I have. And that's what I was looking to do at these apartments, like Dennis's park estates or send your criteria. These people, these people, they retire. They don't pick up.

Vemir [03:05:10]:
Making an assumption.

Oleg C [03:05:11]:
There's no texting or anything with these.

Vemir [03:05:13]:
I have texted, emailed, gotten refunds from New York brokers. Okay, are you talking about brokers from real estate? I'm talking about from rental.

Oleg C [03:05:23]:
Talking about management. Person that lives on site, that doesn't pick up their phone, that doesn't service. The apartments have the time there.

Vemir [03:05:29]:
Impossible to get a hold meant that they don't service. Why do you want to know that? Management do, sir. They service. You just said they don't service.

Oleg C [03:05:40]:
I'm just more setting the thing where she's not gonna text with me. You know, she's not. She's not gonna be my broker. She's gonna be like, we have something available. You want to look at it? No, get the fuck out of here. That's it. I'm cool with that.

Vemir [03:05:52]:
So then move on.

Oleg C [03:05:53]:
I'm okay with that.

Anatoliy [03:05:55]:
No, but what are you not okay with that? What's happening that you're not okay with?

Oleg C [03:06:00]:
Well, I'm having trouble finding a place that. That works for me. Right. Have I looked a lot to Vimere's thing? There's not been a lot of supply, unfortunately. Plus, I had a few weeks where I was busy. I wasn't looking. But the ones I did look, sometimes there would be, like, the first floor of a house, which would be excellent because that solves all the problems. But it's in, like, deep Hawthorne.

Oleg C [03:06:19]:
I don't really. I don't want to live there. You know, with. With each year of not living in Fairlon, it's made me want to not find a place around there, but specifically in there, so I can walk to parks. So I don't know, just certain things that I want.

Vemir [03:06:31]:
You know, if your budget was $5,000, you could probably find it today, right?

Oleg C [03:06:35]:
If my budget was $2,500, I can find it today.

Vemir [03:06:38]:
Okay. Is it dollar 400 a month worth getting everything you need?

Oleg C [03:06:43]:
It's already gone up my budget.

Vemir [03:06:45]:
Is it enough to. Is $400 worth these things a month?

Oleg C [03:06:52]:
But where do you get the $400?

Vemir [03:06:54]:
I'm asking, is it worth it?

Oleg C [03:06:56]:
Sorry.

Eldar [03:06:56]:
Go find me.

Oleg C [03:06:58]:
So just. Okay, just. You saying. Just reply that question without context. Is dollar 400 a month worth to get what you want?

Vemir [03:07:07]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [03:07:07]:
Yes.

Vemir [03:07:07]:
Then you should find a way to do that.

Eldar [03:07:10]:
Only fins, Dennis, can manifest the fees.

Oleg C [03:07:13]:
Well, here's the thing. Okay, so I was looking before for $1,500, which was the reasonable going rate for these apartments. Then they went up like $400.

Vemir [03:07:23]:
But do you have to deal with your situation?

Oleg C [03:07:24]:
I know, I know, but I'm just explaining. Then they went up to, like, 1819. I was like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm gonna give myself more room 2000, right? Let's say under 2100. I've already upped it a few times. And I figured I've done. I've stretched the budget, and, like, I've been thinking of little side gigs I can make to close that gap already, because I'm trying to be careful, too. I can probably even afford this.

Oleg C [03:07:51]:
I haven't saving all the money.

Vemir [03:07:52]:
House.

Eldar [03:08:00]:
You got the finance guy.

Oleg C [03:08:01]:
Here's other things I've had to pay for. I've started putting away money for certain things that I wasn't before, and I would have to stop putting that money.

Eldar [03:08:13]:
Are those things pricing? Like, they're today, tomorrow. You need to move out soon.

Oleg C [03:08:17]:
I have, like, a medical fund thing that I put away that's. That's important. I buy, like, a stock every month, and, you know, that's one of those things. You can always drop it, but it's good investment. I mean, it's good financial strategy.

Eldar [03:08:29]:
You don't have, really, a problem.

Vemir [03:08:31]:
You have to find your priorities like this. This living situation seems really important to you, so something's got to give. You either need to learn how to make more money.

Eldar [03:08:42]:
I would disagree. I would disagree that he. This is actually what he actually wants to do anymore. He doesn't want to do that.

Vemir [03:08:48]:
Why?

Eldar [03:08:49]:
He just wants to do something. He just wants to do this. This shit, what he's doing, solve problems. He keep jerking himself off.

Vemir [03:08:55]:
Yeah.

Eldar [03:08:56]:
You know what I'm saying?

Oleg C [03:08:57]:
I don't know, elder. You have this weird mentality where every time somebody has an issue with something, they want that issue. But, like, that's crazy. That's like, the same thing as those people who said, hey, I don't like gay people. Oh, you're gay? Like, no, it's stupid to not like gay people, but doesn't mean they're gay.

Vemir [03:09:11]:
What he's saying that this is a problem only in your mind, but you're like, he could find a way to live in an apartment for 1800 and find a compromise. He could find for sure. He could figure out how to accept it.

Eldar [03:09:27]:
If you're not, what's more important? If you're not, we can do it. Right? But if he's not, what's more important to him?

Vemir [03:09:36]:
He's trying to find peace in the wrong places. And I think you can overcome this, but you have to take some risk. And the problem is, if you want to take zero risk, that's your outcome.

Eldar [03:09:48]:
That's it.

Anatoliy [03:09:52]:
How much do you put away a month in the stock?

Vemir [03:09:53]:
I'm not attacking you. I just met you. But you're making excuses.

Oleg C [03:09:57]:
No, but I like this. I don't have a problem.

Anatoliy [03:09:59]:
How much you put away a month in the stock?

Vemir [03:10:03]:
Just fucking make a decision.

Anatoliy [03:10:05]:
How much do you put away in the stock each month?

Oleg C [03:10:08]:
I buy one s and p 500 stock because I don't know anything about investing all that. My uncle was just like, dude, at least you want to start early because since you're a business owner, you don't have retirement savings. Just start buying shit now as much as you can.

Eldar [03:10:23]:
How much?

Vemir [03:10:23]:
$4,000 a month. Oh, $400. The exact gap that you need to get the apartment secure future.

Oleg C [03:10:32]:
Isn't that. It's like between. Yeah, it's average of 400.

Vemir [03:10:35]:
So why don't you try putting that 400 into your perfect apartment for six months and see how it goes?

Eldar [03:10:42]:
Fuck that, bro. What about one year?

Vemir [03:10:47]:
Try it for a year and a half. Hey, what do you have to lose by trying something away from.

Eldar [03:10:56]:
From your retirement?

Anatoliy [03:10:59]:
Maybe you could make more than.

Oleg C [03:11:00]:
No, but what's your serious thing? You can or can't tell me.

Eldar [03:11:04]:
I'm saying no, you can't. I don't know.

Vemir [03:11:06]:
Are you not?

Eldar [03:11:09]:
You can't take that away from already a very well established plan.

Oleg C [03:11:14]:
No, Elder, it's weird because a lot of times, like your sarcasm doesn't quite hit because I'm actually not a very financially responsible guy. I don't really have anxiety.

Eldar [03:11:24]:
That's why I'm on your side here.

Oleg C [03:11:26]:
I actually don't. I'm actually doing the mere thing, taking a risk or going around what I would usually do and putting away. Because right now I'm like, yeah. The whole time I'm like, I'm putting this away. What's the point? I know. It's like the. Right.

Eldar [03:11:39]:
That's what I'm saying. Okay. To it.

Vemir [03:11:42]:
If you either need to spend more money, you either need to spend more money and be okay with the new financial thing, or you need to find an apartment that's cheaper and be okay with the new housing thing. But right now you're very unsatisfied and it's your fault.

Oleg C [03:12:00]:
I'm not denying that. This woman fucked me over with every.

Vemir [03:12:05]:
She didn't.

Eldar [03:12:06]:
No, she said.

Oleg C [03:12:09]:
I'm not saying.

Anatoliy [03:12:13]:
I mean, we're talking about $400 here.

Oleg C [03:12:16]:
I know, but.

Eldar [03:12:17]:
But you don't understand.

Oleg C [03:12:20]:
We never had a hundred. It's like we're talking about a $100. Talking about $200. Eventually you're double. Your original plan was.

Anatoliy [03:12:27]:
No, I know, but maybe, like, we start.

Oleg C [03:12:29]:
I'm paying a thousand right now. That's unrealistic prices because I'm getting a hookup. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Let's say I was at 1500.

Eldar [03:12:36]:
This patagonia.

Oleg C [03:12:37]:
Yeah.

Eldar [03:12:37]:
Nice water.

Oleg C [03:12:43]:
Not patagonia, bro. It's a gift shop. $20.

Vemir [03:12:49]:
So wait, what did you say?

Oleg C [03:12:53]:
This guy with a patagonia, bro, what is going.

Anatoliy [03:12:56]:
Yeah, I'm saying this is $400. I like that you're putting so much emphasis on how, like, oh, yes, apartment is so important for you.

Oleg C [03:13:03]:
Wait, we never had something. You never had someone else do that to you where you're like, oh, but it's another hundred dollars. And it's like, yeah, but we already did that thing ten times in a row. We're already a thousand over. So what do you mean it's enough? You know what I'm saying?

Anatoliy [03:13:15]:
Like, no, but, no, but, like, if you're talking about, like, you have $2 is gonna get you exactly what you want and you're talking about how, like, you're gonna be so happy, like, with it. Yeah, I do not. I just get the apartment.

Oleg C [03:13:28]:
I mean, 13, three.

Vemir [03:13:30]:
I was 15.

Oleg C [03:13:31]:
I went to 18. Now I'm gonna get under 21.

Vemir [03:13:33]:
So.

Anatoliy [03:13:34]:
Yeah, but that's like the market. It's like. Like, who cares what you do or don't do?

Oleg C [03:13:37]:
No, you can get an apartment, Dennis. I'm sure his apartments probably 1750. I think he got a little early.

Anatoliy [03:13:44]:
Yeah, but you don't want that, right?

Oleg C [03:13:46]:
I don't want.

Denis [03:13:47]:
So what do you go is to get this.

Oleg C [03:13:50]:
I figured he's getting paint object. How much they cost now is 1750. I saw one of them. So I figured I had 300.

Eldar [03:13:58]:
Bam.

Oleg C [03:13:59]:
Gets me the next level.

Vemir [03:14:00]:
What?

Oleg C [03:14:00]:
It doesn't seem to quite.

Vemir [03:14:02]:
It doesn't.

Anatoliy [03:14:02]:
Yeah, it doesn't. Right.

Vemir [03:14:03]:
So you have.

Anatoliy [03:14:07]:
Wrong about, like you're.

Oleg C [03:14:10]:
Saying kind of like, what, just because.

Eldar [03:14:12]:
He wants it to kill? Manifest that.

Oleg C [03:14:14]:
No, no, but totally. You're saying kind of like. So it's not realistic. What are you doing? But it is. It potentially it is realistic. Is gonna be rare. So, for example, sometimes people rent she's worth a house. And then when you're renting the first floor of a house, you usually just get all those amenities because it's a house space to give you yard space, etc.

Oleg C [03:14:33]:
Okay, I would do that, but if they don't come up often. So meanwhile, I'm like, are you willing.

Vemir [03:14:38]:
To stay in Jersey City as long as it takes to get your rare apartment?

Eldar [03:14:43]:
So then how many more years do you have?

Oleg C [03:14:46]:
I have somebody coming back. Like, who's gonna be living there sometimes. So that lights a fire under my eyes a little because I don't want to lose a roommate. Kind of.

Eldar [03:14:53]:
How many years you have in you?

Vemir [03:14:54]:
I don't know what you're. You have a solution in your hand. Your main goal is to have the apartment you want, and it's in your hands with this. $400 for a stock. Just do it, Mikey.

Eldar [03:15:17]:
Interesting.

Vemir [03:15:18]:
If your goal is to save more money, then compensate your apartment.

Anatoliy [03:15:22]:
Yeah, but see, I feel like the.

Denis [03:15:23]:
You don't have.

Vemir [03:15:24]:
You don't have your priorities in order.

Anatoliy [03:15:28]:
The confusion might be as to what the goal is to be.

Vemir [03:15:30]:
You don't agree?

Oleg C [03:15:31]:
I don't disagree.

Vemir [03:15:32]:
So then get your priorities straight and compromise the ones on the bottom for the ones on the top.

Eldar [03:15:37]:
He's a little bit too smart for that. Yeah. Yeah. No, I need to be proud. Yeah, he's too smart for that from here.

Vemir [03:15:43]:
No, he's.

Oleg C [03:15:44]:
My priorities shift constantly.

Vemir [03:15:46]:
Well, you have to.

Oleg C [03:15:46]:
Well, maybe they don't shift on my mind.

Vemir [03:15:48]:
Have some, you know, decide something.

Oleg C [03:15:52]:
What are you saying?

Vemir [03:15:53]:
You're just going to suffer?

Anatoliy [03:15:54]:
No, no, I'm saying that, like. Like, the goal, like, I think, like, the goals of an individual are not always, like, I guess, like, what they speak to be because. No, because their actions show otherwise.

Oleg C [03:16:07]:
Right.

Anatoliy [03:16:08]:
He's saying he wants to move back to fair law. He wants to hike also, mom. This, this and that. But yet, like, he's hung up on these particular apartment things. And then he has a stock that he's investing to the future of his life. Right. While talking at the same time. About that.

Anatoliy [03:16:23]:
Yeah. His life right now would be so much better if he had these amenities or, like, these kinds of living situations. And we're talking about $400, which, which I do get. Like, that could go on an endless pit. Now, what if 400 more dollars after that.

Oleg C [03:16:36]:
Right.

Anatoliy [03:16:37]:
But, like, if you can afford it, which he can, because he could, for example, drop the stock thing, like, for.

Oleg C [03:16:44]:
3000, rent the house, and then have everything I want.

Vemir [03:16:47]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [03:16:48]:
That's another 4600.

Anatoliy [03:16:50]:
Oh, yeah. Then you have to make some decisions as to what you can and, and, and can't afford and what you're willing to do and not willing to do. If you're saying I'm not willing to drop the stock, I want to pay this amount 2100, and I'm not willing to budge from that. And these are my requirements, then you're gonna have to hang tight like that.

Oleg C [03:17:10]:
That's just okay to hang tight for a little.

Anatoliy [03:17:14]:
Yeah.

Oleg C [03:17:17]:
But I have several months at least.

Vemir [03:17:19]:
I don't know.

Eldar [03:17:20]:
He prefers it. He prefers to hang tight, man.

Vemir [03:17:23]:
Yeah, he's, you know, like when you're at the bar and there's a lot of people that 10:00 p.m. And 11:00 p.m. And then you didn't make an approach, and then it's like, 01:00 a.m. And there's three people left, and you're thinking, oh, she leaves. There's nobody at the bar at 02:00 a.m.. Yeah.

Anatoliy [03:17:40]:
I think in all of these scenarios. Yeah, I think in all of these.

Oleg C [03:17:47]:
I'm just a little. Yeah.

Vemir [03:17:48]:
The longer you wait, the more you miss out on.

Oleg C [03:17:50]:
No, I know. The worst.

Eldar [03:17:52]:
This is the story.

Oleg C [03:17:53]:
Like, this sums up my life. The worst. What is it? This.

Vemir [03:18:02]:
But you have not one of that run?

Oleg C [03:18:04]:
No, I try. I started work. I'm trying to work on it. It's very hard for me.

Vemir [03:18:08]:
Well, this is an opportunity for you.

Oleg C [03:18:10]:
Like, it's literally like a paralyzed person who's trying to, like, run. Like, that's.

Vemir [03:18:18]:
The next step is.

Anatoliy [03:18:34]:
I have anxiety myself. Most of you are probably aware of that, right? Made more and more eldar and Mike, obviously. Right. But I think that, like, through, like, Eldar, his methods or what he's discovered for himself, like, through elderism.

Vemir [03:18:48]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [03:18:49]:
Through the different ways of trolling, raising awareness, like, talking about it, discussing it. Like, I constantly get, like, if I'm on. If what?

Oleg C [03:19:03]:
Breakthroughs.

Anatoliy [03:19:04]:
No, if I'm honest, I get put into the same position. They take me and they box me in with just me me and myself, and there's nothing else.

Oleg C [03:19:16]:
And I have to ask, like.

Anatoliy [03:19:18]:
Like, it's the same scenario that happens. Like, I have never, not one time ever in my life came to, like, eldar Mike with, like, a problem. I have an issue. I have something that I'm experiencing, and, like, we haven't been able to come up with, like, a logical solution or, like, steps to take, and I just. And, like, if I'm honest with. With myself and I, like, if. If I'm honest and talking with them, I get put in the same scenario. I'm boxed in, and the only thing left.

Anatoliy [03:19:50]:
That's left is just me and, like. Like. Yeah, my own sickness. Right.

Vemir [03:19:57]:
It's a good thing. Yes.

Anatoliy [03:19:59]:
Yes. It's a very good thing.

Oleg C [03:20:00]:
Right. And that just. You go usually are. Is that we're trying.

Anatoliy [03:20:04]:
Well, I'm saying is that, like, we can talk here. We can talk here.

Eldar [03:20:08]:
Hide. All you do is hide.

Anatoliy [03:20:09]:
Yeah, like, we can talk here, and we can box you in, and it'll just be you and this problem.

Oleg C [03:20:14]:
Right.

Anatoliy [03:20:14]:
And that's it.

Vemir [03:20:16]:
Right.

Anatoliy [03:20:16]:
And at the end of the day, like, a good thing, if he does not want to take the steps or if I don't want to take the steps to go about it, there's. There's nothing to figure out here.

Eldar [03:20:25]:
There's nothing.

Anatoliy [03:20:26]:
All of our problems here, all of our problems are very simple, trivial issues. There's not one problem right now that you can bring up to, like, the table here that we as a group, like, cannot actually logically go through what actually happens. But I can say that most likely, you probably are not willing to take the steps that it takes to actually go about fixing them. And the group of individuals here will box you in and prove that to you. And I think that fundamentally.

Eldar [03:20:57]:
And those individuals that have a problem with that, they can't this.

Vemir [03:21:01]:
So what do I need to change to?

Eldar [03:21:04]:
So when you start complaining, that's when you get boxed in. He's complaining. He was complaining.

Denis [03:21:12]:
Complaining.

Anatoliy [03:21:13]:
Yeah, that that's the fundamental issue. I think that that happens, for example, with Dennis, is that, like, when that happens to him, like, when he gets boxed in, for example, like, he doesn't like it and, yeah, he takes probably more. More.

Oleg C [03:21:27]:
Is it constructive?

Anatoliy [03:21:29]:
What?

Oleg C [03:21:29]:
Is it constructive?

Anatoliy [03:21:31]:
Well, it's not about whether it's constructive or not. It's the reality of the situation.

Vemir [03:21:36]:
It's good that you have people that can do that for you. Also, by the way, if you bring up problems, some people have solutions. If someone needs a car moved and they don't know how to figure it out. You ask people, they know a guy. They know a guy, they find a solution. Yeah.

Eldar [03:21:56]:
You have to have the ability to ask.

Vemir [03:21:58]:
Power of asking, baby, let me tell you.

Oleg C [03:22:00]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [03:22:00]:
Like, going, for example, going, someone who's not good.

Vemir [03:22:04]:
I thought that was.

Oleg C [03:22:07]:
Saying that you can ask a lot of people. Is that your point?

Eldar [03:22:10]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy [03:22:10]:
Go going, for example, to get an apartment for it, for example, where he has, like, potentially a resource, like me, Mike, or elder, who are all three of us competent in, like, accomplishing, like, these kinds of conversations and, like, having them, like, by not asking and then going and doing yourself. Like. I mean, like, it's gonna end up in this kind of thing if you're not working on, like, what your deficiencies are in this situation.

Oleg C [03:22:35]:
I reached out to other department under smart Egor's advisor, by the way. He's like, dude, another said, hey.

Anatoliy [03:22:40]:
Oh, like, I'm not willing to help you.

Oleg C [03:22:42]:
You know, I'm kind of cheap. Yeah, whatever.

Eldar [03:22:48]:
Exact same thing I said. I said, yo, figure out the fucking budget, motherfucker. I said, figure out the fucking budget.

Oleg C [03:22:55]:
Didn't say that.

Eldar [03:22:55]:
Yes, I did.

Oleg C [03:22:56]:
No, you didn't answer me, bro.

Eldar [03:22:57]:
No, I did answer you. I said, your budget. Raise that motherfucker and forget about fucking the shit. And you gave me the fucking. Oh, I'm already raising it. I can't. You know, and they give. Can you give me more stuff with what I need to do and shit like that? I said, raise the fucking budget.

Oleg C [03:23:14]:
No, and I told you the situation with the apartment thing. Yeah. Yo, let me get back to you. And then you back.

Eldar [03:23:20]:
I did get back to you.

Vemir [03:23:21]:
No, I didn't.

Eldar [03:23:22]:
I remember I had a crazy ass pain in my fucking hip and I was driving to chiropractor. I know for a fact I answered you because I don't even know what I answered.

Oleg C [03:23:29]:
Don't go to the chiropractor.

Vemir [03:23:30]:
You know, it doesn't matter if he doesn't answer.

Eldar [03:23:32]:
I answered it.

Oleg C [03:23:33]:
This is. I'm attached to.