52. The Psychology of Anger: Understanding and Transforming Negative Emotions

Eldar [00:00:00]:
On this week's episode, 

Guest [00:00:01]:
They kept thinking sadness was like a negative emotion. We shouldn't be sad, shouldn't be happy all the time. But because of sadness, the parents were to recognize that there was a problem happening and that they need to sit down and address it.

Eldar [00:00:11]:
Correct.

Guest [00:00:12]:
I think of anger also as that way too. It's also a necessity because if you seem happy and everything's all good, you're not gonna like, worry about them. You're not gonna realize there is a leak happening in the house until your whole wall comes down.

Mike [00:00:24]:
If you love something, if you care about something, to not succeed is not an option.

Toliy [00:00:28]:
The funny thing is that we are way faster to make assumptions than to actually have the conversation.

Mike [00:00:32]:
Jealousy, right? Trust all these negative things. They will eventually this life or the next or maybe a couple more, they will say, make you think, yo, wait, what the fuck is happening here? Why am I so angry? Why am I so jealous?

Eldar [00:00:45]:
Why?

Mike [00:00:45]:
I don't trust.

Eldar [00:00:46]:
But a lot of times in fictional things like movies and stuff like that, people see that, you know, within, within an hour or two span, you can fall in love, you know, make x amount of money, become a millionaire. So what's happening is that you buy in, you buy into a desire that you actually have the capability of doing such a thing.

Tommy [00:01:04]:
And that's, I think. I think that's also out of love. You know, I think anger sometimes involves love. Like it involves what? Anger towards love.

Eldar [00:01:12]:
What did you say? First of all, let's welcome Alex, Tom's friend. Join us today for podcast.

Tommy [00:01:34]:
What's up, Alex?

Guest [00:01:35]:
Hello.

Eldar [00:01:36]:
Yeah, thank you for joining us.

Guest [00:01:38]:
Thank you for having me.

Eldar [00:01:39]:
Hopefully you have a good time tackling some of the things that we're doing here. Today's topic is about anger. And the reason why we chose this topic is because we have a friend on the basketball court and he was trying to tackle it for the new year, I guess. Right? Was that kind of his? Oh, you don't know. It was a Michaels.

Mike [00:02:00]:
Yeah. Forgot what the thing was. But it was no longer wanted to use anger.

Eldar [00:02:05]:
He does no longer want to use anger on the court. That was like his whole thing, you know, he gave a whole speech on the chat. Yeah. And we said that, let's talk about anger because I think it's an important topic.

Toliy [00:02:14]:
But if he does, if he does that, he needs to find a replacement. Someone has to do, somebody has to.

Eldar [00:02:20]:
Do the anger, right?

Toliy [00:02:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:02:22]:
Yeah. So this guy plays with us and a lot of times he gets upset and angry. How the, you know, the things turn out on the court, you know? So he wants to have, I guess, New Year's resolution to not no longer turn to anger, but be. What do you say? He's gonna slay cats with joy. With joy. Yes. That's what he said. Yeah.

Eldar [00:02:40]:
But we. We pose a question around anger that maybe is thought provoking and we could talk about more is.

Mike [00:02:51]:
I can do it.

Eldar [00:02:52]:
Yeah. Mike, can you do it, please? Yeah, sure.

Mike [00:02:54]:
So the first question is, do unattain desires, desired outcomes breed, give birth to just or justify anger? That's the first question.

Eldar [00:03:09]:
Let's expand on that first. Right. Um. So a lot of the times when we turn to anger is because we're not happy with something. Right. We're not happy with something that's external Tony was talking about before, and something that's not going our way. Right. That something, right.

Eldar [00:03:30]:
Is obviously we had a desired outcome, and that something didn't turn into what we wanted. Therefore, we become angry. Right. So the question there is, right, is that one of the reasons why we get angry in the first place, when we don't get what we want, right, the desired outcomes, and that's when we get angry. That's one of the questions.

Mike [00:03:50]:
I think that's. I think that's definitely one of the reasons people get angry. Probably one of the big ones, but I don't know if it's the only one. But it could also be the only one. I don't know. Yeah.

Eldar [00:04:08]:
Well, what do you think that question means to you?

Mike [00:04:11]:
To me is when we set out to do something, a lot of the things that we set out to do, or some of the things that we set out to do, is driven by a desire.

Eldar [00:04:23]:
That's right.

Mike [00:04:24]:
And sometimes that desire, it might not be necessarily rooted in the truth, but because of our maybe flawed logic or flawed thinking, we connect two things that don't logically make sense, and then we act out what we have, you know, set out to do, and then. And then we don't get what we think we're gonna get because the whole predicament is flawed.

Eldar [00:04:50]:
Okay? The whole equation is messed up.

Mike [00:04:52]:
The whole equation is messed up. And then we become angry because we didn't account for something, because we didn't get what we want. And.

Eldar [00:05:04]:
We'Re also control freaks. Yeah. Especially if we want to control this particular outcome, right. To be the way we want it to be and we don't get it, obviously boils our blood. Right. How come then, certain people are or get less when it comes to disappointment and all this other stuff that's not going their way. And some people really blow up. Right.

Mike [00:05:28]:
Like, real anger, as you say, you know, the kids who never learned how to play with other kids in the playground.

Eldar [00:05:33]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:05:34]:
What do you think happened to them? They just became big kids who don't know how to play with each other.

Eldar [00:05:40]:
Wow. That's interesting.

Mike [00:05:41]:
No, I was just talking shit.

Eldar [00:05:42]:
But it might be the case.

Tommy [00:05:45]:
All the kids who what?

Mike [00:05:46]:
All the kids who, like, didn't know how to play with the other kids in the playground. Okay. I said, what do you think happened to them? They just became big kids who don't know how to play in the playground still, you know.

Eldar [00:05:58]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:05:58]:
Whether it's allowed by their parents, like, unacceptable behavior.

Eldar [00:06:01]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:06:02]:
Discipline wasn't, you know, used, you know, discipline is dead. But, yeah, you know, so the question.

Tommy [00:06:09]:
Is, it's like, I see a lot of questions.

Mike [00:06:12]:
We're doing the one only.

Tommy [00:06:13]:
Okay. The unattained desires.

Eldar [00:06:15]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:06:17]:
Unattained desires. Breeddem, uh, what outcomes breed?

Eldar [00:06:20]:
Uh, do unattain desired outcomes. Right. The things that you desired to have, they were not achieved. Right. Do those things breed, give birth or justify anger? Yeah. Okay.

Tommy [00:06:35]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:06:36]:
All right.

Mike [00:06:36]:
Cool.

Tommy [00:06:36]:
I get it.

Eldar [00:06:38]:
And is that the root of anger, where we attach ourselves so much. Right. To an outcome? They have very strong attachments to very specific outcomes. Right. And if they don't go our way, we don't go back to the plan, like, most of the time, and say, hey, let's look at the plan and what actually happened here. We a lot of times go into the emotional state of anger, frustration, whatever it is. Right. And we feel a certain type of way.

Mike [00:07:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:07:08]:
Yeah. How do you feel, Tony? You had a lot to say about it. Yeah.

Toliy [00:07:11]:
I mean, not. No, I mean, like I said before, I feel, like, anger. I don't think that anger is a innate, like, I don't know, emotion or feeling or, like, I view it more as, like, a communication tool and, like, a learned response. Two things. But I think that they. It definitely. I think that it stems from. Yeah.

Toliy [00:07:34]:
Like, those unattained outcomes could be, like, really big ones. Right. They could be, like, I don't know, big unattained goals or big unattainable dreams or stuff like that. But it can also just be, like, a single interaction.

Eldar [00:07:49]:
I don't know.

Toliy [00:07:50]:
You wanted a parking spot. Someone else took it right in front of you while you were waiting there for two minutes or whatever. It could be a conversation with, like, a person where, like, they say something to you a certain way or, like, you're not happy with what they're saying or whatever. Right. So I think it could be small and large ones, but I think they all come down to the same thing. Like, it's a expression that I think maybe, like, that form of communication then turned into a feeling. Now. Now it's like, you could get angry without, like, anyone being there.

Toliy [00:08:28]:
Right. Cause, like, if you're communicating, you need someone to communicate to, like, I don't know if you're talking on the phone or, like. Or in person or in some kind of, like, video call. Like, if you get angry, there's someone that can receive your anger, but if you're alone, you could still be angry. But I think it's, like, something that you learn as, like, a expression, and I think that it's definitely tied to. To unachieved outcomes.

Eldar [00:08:58]:
Yeah. Okay, so you're saying almost that anger is not an emotion emotional response. It's more so a learned behavioral.

Toliy [00:09:05]:
I think it's both. I do think that there is some, like, emotion tied to it, but I think that, like, I'm not sure if, like, the emotion happens first and then the anger happens second or even if they're. At the same time, I do think it's a learned behavior of, like, because, like, it means something. And, like, society is very clear as to what it means. Like, like, people can say, oh, that person is angry. Like, or, like, stay away from that person. He's angry right now.

Eldar [00:09:32]:
Right?

Toliy [00:09:32]:
Like, they know that, like, okay, like, that person's angry, therefore you shouldn't. Do, you know x, y or z?

Eldar [00:09:38]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:09:39]:
Right. So, like, people know, like, that, like, oh, he's angry right now, or she's angry. Don't bring up this, you know, like, yeah, that's because they have learned that when somebody is angry, you, therefore you should not do certain things.

Eldar [00:09:53]:
You should stay away. So what are you suggesting that based on what you think anger is, and these people are using this as a form of expression?

Toliy [00:10:00]:
Yeah, yeah. I think the difficult reality to people, I think, that are angry or that display a lot of anger. I just feel like they don't have a better way to, like, express themselves. Yeah. Communicate. And there's something that they're not in there standing. So, like, if someone's doing something to. To you, it may not be that, like.

Toliy [00:10:30]:
Like, as an example, they may be doing something that's, like, not intentionally against you, but if you're feeling that it is intentionally against you, you could get angry.

Eldar [00:10:39]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:10:40]:
But, like, your anger is. Is, like, as a result of a assumption that you have not verified if it's true or not with the person.

Eldar [00:10:50]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:10:51]:
But you already have a verified reaction or, like, a emotion tied to it. Yeah. Conclusion. So I would say that, like, people who display anger, a lot of times, I do think it's like, their understanding of how to communicate when they don't know a better way or they don't. They're not able to, like, understand what's actually happening. Right. Like, on the court. I mean, I.

Toliy [00:11:13]:
I definitely get angry at times. Right, too. And, you know, somebody could make a call or somebody could say something or, like, follow you in a certain way, and you may think that, like, it's intentional.

Mike [00:11:26]:
Right.

Eldar [00:11:26]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Toliy [00:11:27]:
But you. You haven't verified that. Right. And you haven't had a conversation with the person, and you could just react in that way with the assumption that that is. That, like, what you're. Is true. So it's like, you could be getting angry at all these situations. But I think that, like, yeah, anger and, like, a right frame of mind or a right way of looking at things.

Toliy [00:11:48]:
Like, I don't think it has any way to exist. I think it only exists on, like, some kind of false pretenses or a lack of, like. Like, being not very good at, like, logically, of looking at things. Like, the more, like, the more poorly you are at looking at things logically, the more angry that you will be, or vice versa. The more things that you can look at, like. Oh, logically, the less angry that you.

Mike [00:12:15]:
Look at is logically looking at things the same as seeing things for what they are.

Eldar [00:12:19]:
Yeah, well, he's tying that to that. Yeah, I think he's saying that together.

Mike [00:12:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:12:23]:
If we're going to look at things logically, we're more likely to get to a place where we understand the world a little bit better. Yeah.

Toliy [00:12:32]:
Things have to make sense, and, like, things do make sense if you're. If you're able to see them for what they are. Like, whether they are the sense that you wanted to see before you try to see it, but, like, there's something out there that exists, like, regardless of how you feel about it, but it makes sense. Like, it has some kind of, like, a logic to it. And your inability to see that or understand it can definitely breed anger.

Eldar [00:12:59]:
So would you say that. Sorry, Nick. No, just gonna ask a question. Would you say that anger is almost then, based on what you're saying is a conditioned response?

Toliy [00:13:08]:
Oh, yeah. I think it's a conditioned response because there are certain things that you get from it. Right. It's like. And it's different scenarios for different people. Right. You could be like that hothead, I don't know, at some bar or something like that. And then, like, you know that when you get angry and stuff like that, people gonna come up to you and try to calm you down or try to, like, write, like, act you a certain way, people are gonna be potentially afraid of you.

Eldar [00:13:34]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:13:34]:
That might be something that you're looking for. I think it's definitely a conditioned response, and it's only there again, like I said, if everyone was, like, if we're talking about expressing anger, like, verbally, if everyone was, like, blind and, like, muted.

Eldar [00:13:49]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:13:50]:
Like, you eventually would not do it because, like. Yeah. It's like, anger needs something to balance off of.

Eldar [00:13:56]:
Mmm. Okay.

Toliy [00:13:57]:
For it to make sense. Like. Like, it's the same thing as, like, I don't know if this is a good example of it. Right. But, like, the universal thing all over the world, my. My guess. Right. Unless Thom has seen otherwise.

Toliy [00:14:12]:
Libraries. What do people associate with library?

Eldar [00:14:15]:
Peace and quiet.

Toliy [00:14:16]:
Being quiet.

Eldar [00:14:17]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:14:17]:
That's, like, you don't. Can go in any country. Right. And, like, I don't know if there are, like, intentionally actually allowed, like, libraries.

Eldar [00:14:23]:
Yeah. Right.

Toliy [00:14:23]:
But, like, the general thing is, like, this is what the expectation is, and if someone is acting this other way.

Eldar [00:14:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:14:29]:
That's just, like, unacceptable.

Eldar [00:14:30]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:14:30]:
Right. Anger is an acceptable way of acting in. In certain societal, like areas, and certain ones, it's not.

Eldar [00:14:37]:
Yeah. Right.

Toliy [00:14:38]:
Like, it is not acceptable for you to, like, I don't know, raise your voice and be angry at the boss of where. Where you're working at. Like, that is just known in all types of work. Like, that's unacceptable in some places of work, it is acceptable. Right. For the boss to be angry at the employee.

Eldar [00:14:55]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:14:56]:
Right. Like, that's more acceptable. See, like, these are, like, behaviors that are, like, okay or not okay.

Eldar [00:15:04]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:15:07]:
So, yeah, I definitely think that the anger is a conditioned response because you get something out of it there. There's, like, something more.

Eldar [00:15:14]:
So you think that.

Toliy [00:15:16]:
You think also.

Eldar [00:15:17]:
You think that you might get something by being angry?

Toliy [00:15:20]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:15:20]:
You know, because I've also seen scenarios where people get angry and they're looking for a particular response up until. Right. You get to a point where another person gets angry, and now it's an angry match between the two, and the person who started the angry match in the first place is not ready to go as far as the other person to go. Right. For example, for a fight, they can start a fight. Right. The other person who you just dragged into something. Someone punched you in the face.

Eldar [00:15:45]:
No. Suddenly the other person is like, okay, cool, I'm not talking like that anymore. Right. So it quickly deescalated the situation. Right. Because that person didn't realize that I can't get what I wanted from this interaction. Yeah. Right.

Toliy [00:15:59]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:15:59]:
Okay. That's interesting.

Toliy [00:16:01]:
Yeah. And, like, after a while.

Eldar [00:16:03]:
So it's almost like. So then on another level, it's also a very deliberate attempt for an outcome. Yeah.

Toliy [00:16:10]:
I don't think they're, like, at least an interaction.

Eldar [00:16:13]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:16:13]:
It's. It's. It's a. I think it's a combination of a deliberate attack.

Mike [00:16:16]:
It's.

Toliy [00:16:17]:
It's a deliberate, like, request for some kind of outcome.

Eldar [00:16:19]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:16:20]:
And I also view it as I probably, for some people, it's probably a form of, like, a release of frustration.

Eldar [00:16:25]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:16:26]:
So, like, I don't think that, like, what's that line that you always say that the causation is not always the.

Eldar [00:16:31]:
Yeah. Correlation does not mean causation.

Toliy [00:16:33]:
Yes. If somebody has, for example, like, everybody has, like, seven days in their week except for Tom.

Eldar [00:16:39]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:16:39]:
Right. Like, if everyone has seven days, and let's say, just say you play basketball on the 6th day, there could be five days of, like, stuff happening to you that frustrates you, and it kind of, like, builds and builds and builds. And there could be something small that would. Right. That happens on Saturday that creates, like, a huge, like, anger, like, a spur from you. Right. And that buildup of those other days that was not, like, released or talked about could trigger all of those, like, five previous days of anger in that one, like, moment.

Eldar [00:17:18]:
Yeah, agree.

Toliy [00:17:20]:
Right. So it's just, like, it's not always the actual situation is what justifies, like, is what the person is just justifying. Like, okay, like, this is the dose of anger that I have to release, because sometimes it's very small things that just, like, create this kind of a rigor. Right. But it doesn't always mean that, like, because that person is flipping out or, like, whatever that is. Just that, like, that one thing.

Eldar [00:17:42]:
Yeah. Okay.

Toliy [00:17:43]:
You know?

Eldar [00:17:44]:
So, Alex, what do you think? Do you think, how about this? Do you use anger as a form of communication in the way we described it?

Guest [00:17:53]:
Um.

Eldar [00:17:54]:
Or do you try to stay away from it?

Guest [00:17:56]:
I try to do both. More. In a way, I agree with the whole logical thing, with the whole. If you're more logical about it, you're less likely to be angry. But. And as a way of form communication, some people just can't. Like, you can speak very clearly and you can tell them to stop, and, like, some people just don't get it. They just won't stop.

Eldar [00:18:16]:
Okay.

Guest [00:18:17]:
So in a form of the way to make them stop, some people only recognize, like, that kind of form of recrimination to get angry at them. Like, at least, like, raising your voice, speaking more formally. Yeah, I don't know, stuff like that. So I agree with that part.

Eldar [00:18:33]:
So you're saying that sometimes we have to tap it into anger in order to deliver our message.

Guest [00:18:38]:
Yeah. So it's a tool in a way, but also, like you said, with, like, it snowballs and sometimes inadvertently, you end up becoming angry.

Eldar [00:18:49]:
Angry?

Guest [00:18:50]:
Yeah, you don't even, like, mean to just, like, it just suddenly happens because it's just right there, like, a volcano. Like, we don't know it's gonna explode until it does. It does. Yeah.

Toliy [00:19:00]:
Yeah. I do think that, like, the. You can definitely tap into anger, too. Like, if you need to tell someone something who's not, like, understanding it.

Eldar [00:19:09]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:19:09]:
And I think, again, that's only possible because I think that that, again, is a. Like, when someone's raising their voice at you.

Eldar [00:19:15]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:19:16]:
It's like, it almost demanded attention.

Eldar [00:19:19]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:19:20]:
When doing that, I think that is also, like, a learned behavior.

Eldar [00:19:24]:
So are we pre programmed to understand anger?

Toliy [00:19:26]:
I don't think we're pre programmed to, like. I don't think it's, like, an innate thing to understand, like, what? Like, to, like, receive anger and to understand it, but I do think that it's a trained behavior. Ever since you're like a little kid or, like, a. Like a baby, there's plenty of parents, relatives, friends around that get angry, and you observe those interactions, and then you kind of, like, grow up in society, and they kind of, like, will guide you as to, like, what. What is accepted and what. What is not.

Eldar [00:20:00]:
And.

Toliy [00:20:00]:
And that's how, like, anger. To use an indicator.

Eldar [00:20:03]:
Yeah. Right.

Toliy [00:20:04]:
Like, whoa. This person's raising their voice. There. There's speaking very firmly at me.

Eldar [00:20:08]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:20:09]:
Like, it creates, like, fear. It makes you pay attention. Right. Like, it, like, induces certain, like, feelings.

Eldar [00:20:15]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:20:16]:
And that's only trained.

Eldar [00:20:18]:
Yeah. You know what? When you say the word trained, what I'm thinking about right now is that I'm raising another puppy right now, and there's a clear distinction between, when I'm happy with what she's doing, I'm using a baby voice. All right. Hey, so cute. You know, but as soon as she gets out of hand, starts to run around or bite some plants or something. I raise my voice and I do the anger thing. Hey, I'm not happy with you here. You know, I make sure it's deep, make sure it's loud, and.

Eldar [00:20:43]:
Yeah, it's angry.

Toliy [00:20:44]:
And there's association with that.

Eldar [00:20:46]:
Yeah. And I'm making us. I'm trying to connect association with that where, like, when you do this stuff, this is gonna come out. When you do this stuff, this type of voice comes out, the cute voice. So, yeah, I definitely see how we use sometimes anger, or maybe it's necessary in certain scenarios to use anger in order to convey your message. But I'm not sure, however, that a lot of people actually look at anger that way. Yeah.

Guest [00:21:10]:
And I think people look at it in, like, different ways.

Eldar [00:21:13]:
Right, right. So not a lot of people, I think, that go and use it in an educational standpoint, let's just say, right, because one way is to teach a dog, a puppy that look, when I raise my voice, this is what happens. I'm not really emotional at that moment. I learned from Cesar Milan, who says, hey, don't. Don't make it personal. Right. Be stern, be firm, you know, be strong, but don't make it personal. Right.

Eldar [00:21:37]:
So as you make it personal, personal anger, then you got a fight, internal fight, and then external, you know? So I'm not sure if anger. I think anger can be a tool to maybe convey a certain type of message. How. And I even made mention to you on a basketball court, I sometimes do it, and I, like, I have fun when doing it. Yeah. I don't know, when you observe me doing that, do you think that I'm actually angry, or am I actually using the anger and to convey a message?

Mike [00:22:03]:
Yeah, I don't. I never felt like you were actually angry. Angry like that. Now you go, right. Yeah, well, like, I.

Eldar [00:22:08]:
You know, I do it because I know that the people I'm with, the wolves, so I have to be a wolf in that moment. But internally, right now, I'm not feeling any type of way.

Toliy [00:22:17]:
But I don't think. I don't even consider that anger, though. I don't think that, like, tap, then.

Eldar [00:22:22]:
I'm displaying it as anger.

Toliy [00:22:24]:
Yeah, but, yeah, I can't consider that anger, though.

Eldar [00:22:27]:
I don't think it might not be actual anger.

Toliy [00:22:29]:
No, I know. Like, like, I don't think that, like, if you're consciously tapping into something to do something to get some kind of outcome, but you're not actually feeling it, then I don't. I don't think that I can, like, agree that communication. Yeah. But I think that, like, still calling.

Eldar [00:22:46]:
This a form of communication. So now we talk about two different things.

Toliy [00:22:49]:
Mmhmm.

Eldar [00:22:50]:
Right. Like you said, hey, if you're not, you're just using it. And I, like, maybe I'm acting in the moment, right. Anger to get a desired outcome with my puppy or with somebody on a basketball court or somewhere else. And then there's another thing where you actually experience just say anger on your own, sitting at home, not communicating it to nobody but yourself.

Toliy [00:23:10]:
Yeah, but I don't know if you're like, on the basketball court stuff. Like, if you're using anger, like, are you just saying that you're using anger because you're speaking, like, louder or because, like, what's happening where you're saying that you're using.

Eldar [00:23:22]:
Well, yeah, like, if it's a. If it's like a call, for example. Right.

Toliy [00:23:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:23:26]:
I understand that the other individual is not raising their voice and trying to argue with me. And I see it on their face that they're getting upset.

Toliy [00:23:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:23:32]:
So I know that I got a ten x them up, get upset too, and say, no, this is not what it is. You know, raise my voice, scream at them, potentially maybe even show anger or show some kind of a. Maybe an insult even in order for them to calm down, you know, it's a very calculated approach in that sense. Yeah.

Toliy [00:23:54]:
I just don't know if that's anger.

Eldar [00:23:56]:
I'm not sure if it's anger too, but I definitely am trying to display a form of anger to scare the other person into submission. You know, I think that's, that's to your point, the fact that we've learned that if you get angry, you might get something out of it. So that's if it's uncontrollable, you can't control yourself. Right.

Toliy [00:24:19]:
Yeah. See, like I saw spinning at people.

Eldar [00:24:21]:
We have an example, right?

Toliy [00:24:22]:
Yeah. Like I associate probably, like the anger that I'm talking about because I think in like a real, like, you're talking about like a, like a real virtuous world. I don't think that you could have unconscious anger. You could have maybe controlled anger, like in the way you're talking about it. But I view anger more talking about anger. I don't ever view it in a controlled way. It can only be like a non control bound, uncontrollable.

Mike [00:24:50]:
Yeah, because, like, what is it never justified?

Toliy [00:24:53]:
Well, the justification comes person to pervert person.

Mike [00:24:58]:
No, I know, but outside of the people, is it possible that anger could be justified. Is it the right response that is required? You'd say no. Yeah, in a perfect world, no, no.

Toliy [00:25:08]:
Yeah, I don't think that. Yeah, I think that unconscious, like, anger, the way that I'm understanding it, is uncontrollable. Like, it's just like, it's a behavior that, like, I don't think it's like, okay, this is what I'm about to do now. I'm about to get furious. I'm about to like, no, I think it's just an explosion or, you know, sometimes big or large or small, that happens for individuals, and I don't think that it's controlled at all.

Mike [00:25:32]:
What if you been eating shit for a long time, you have a problem with somebody, right? And you've been kind of like, okay, fine, let's say, like that thing we said, it's okay to, he's sick, right? That thing we say, oh, okay, it's okay, he's sick. It's okay, he's sick. You did this ten times, 20 times. You're like, you know what? I had enough of the compassion. I'm gonna use anger because now it's already crossed that line. How does that relate here? Is that not a calculated response?

Eldar [00:26:01]:
I'm not sure. Then if you ever bought in and say, it's okay, he's sick.

Mike [00:26:06]:
Yeah, that's possible.

Eldar [00:26:07]:
I'm not sure if you displaying without example, if anybody's thinking right. A lot of the times when we see a person who's angry and is doing maybe harm to others and ourselves, if you want to use logic to see things for what they are, you might come across the fact that the reason why this person is angry and uncontrollable is because they're sick. They cannot control themselves. So if you see for what that is, that they're sick, the reasonable and logical approach to that is compassion.

Tommy [00:26:41]:
I remember when I told you last about me getting angry, and I was just standing in front of the kitchen counter where my dad was making a sandwich. My mom was away on vacation, and I was telling him, I was trying to tell my dad about these classes that I was taking and papers that I was writing, and he's just standing there not listening to me. So I was like, it's his fault. You remember that? And you were like, no, I had.

Eldar [00:27:07]:
Reasons for why I said that, tom.

Tommy [00:27:09]:
But I believed it. But I felt. I felt like it was, you know, it was like that neglect or that lack of presence in this. You know, like you didn't care. All these, like, factors are working in my mind. My mom's away, you know? Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I'm going to school. I have to finish this.

Tommy [00:27:30]:
I'm applying to another school, and all this is on.

Eldar [00:27:32]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:27:32]:
And he's just standing there, and he doesn't care. Yeah, I felt angry. I felt like I had to, like, suppress that. But I was definitely wrong, and you made me realize it. But when you told me, yo, you know, there. There are ways, and there are times to communicate with people when they're open to being.

Eldar [00:27:52]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:27:53]:
You know, and even what you said made me angry, so it reminded me of that anger, and it brought it back. I want to, like, I want to see how this could tie in, I guess. Like, what do you guys think about that? Has that ever happened?

Eldar [00:28:06]:
Well, yeah, I think we're talking about that same example time. Right? And in your case, what Mike said about, hey, I was shown. I was seeing it. They're sick. They're sick. They're sick for a while, and then I had enough of that, seeing it, you know, I think you can never have enough of seeing it for what it is. Like, just like, if you saw your dad that, hey, like, at this time, your dad is somewhere else. He just came from work.

Eldar [00:28:27]:
He's tired. He's checked out. He's making his sandwich. All he wants to do is watch tv because that's his routine. And now you're selfishly going into his realm, trying to interrupt his flow with your nonsense. For example, even though to you it's not nonsense, to him, it kind of is because he doesn't want to respond to it. Okay, you now saying, hey, you're my dad. You're supposed to care, right? But you're not.

Eldar [00:28:51]:
You're not caring about him. The fact that he has a life, too. You, you know, you putting him up on the pedestal, saying that he has everything figured out, and therefore he should give you a very good, supportive response in that moment.

Tommy [00:29:01]:
And my reason for that is like.

Eldar [00:29:02]:
Oh, your dad, you know, well, there you go. You don't see that your dad is surprised. Exactly. Your dad is comprised of many different things. He also gets tired of. He also gets pissed. He also gets angry, frustrated, and is also might not have. Be having a good day at that moment.

Eldar [00:29:19]:
So he couldn't have that response to you in that moment. I probably advise you at the time to seek out a better time. Schedule an appointment with him where you can sit down and have a one on one conversation with him, which I didn't, of course, you didn't. You're a coward. We can cut that part out if you want to be fake.

Tommy [00:29:36]:
No, I've taken worse.

Eldar [00:29:40]:
I've taken words. No, it's true. I know you got the. Yeah.

Toliy [00:29:43]:
I think that, like, if you know that someone's sick and you're able to have the compassion towards them. Right. But then, like, if you get to a point where, like, you can't, then do you become then the sick one?

Eldar [00:29:55]:
A hundred percent, 100%. You. You not seeing things for what they are too. But that's where the fight starts.

Toliy [00:30:01]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:30:01]:
That's where there's wars in the first place.

Toliy [00:30:03]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:30:04]:
Both sides have. Are in the wrong, and now they want to fight each other.

Toliy [00:30:07]:
Yes. Yeah. I think that, like, what happens is maybe, like, there's people who, like, label someone is like, okay, like, that person sick. Like, I'm gonna show them compassion. But I think that sometimes that happens where there's, like, a. How do you say it? Like, a assumption that someone is, like, improving and working on something, you know?

Eldar [00:30:31]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:30:32]:
And then you can get angry at them in the future because, like, you put a timeline on them to do something.

Eldar [00:30:38]:
Wow.

Toliy [00:30:39]:
But, like. Like, they obviously didn't read away.

Eldar [00:30:42]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:30:43]:
But you still have that, like.

Eldar [00:30:44]:
Yeah.

Tommy [00:30:45]:
Expectation.

Toliy [00:30:45]:
Yeah. That. That's how I think that the, like, the compassion could go away.

Mike [00:30:50]:
But is this statement that they're sick, is that actually truth? Is that how we're gonna label?

Eldar [00:30:55]:
You have to examine it. It's obviously case by case. I'm not just a general statement.

Mike [00:31:02]:
If the person is selfish or a prick, can you just say, oh, he's sick, and that kind of just blankets the whole thing, or. And then you. He's deserving of compassion.

Eldar [00:31:13]:
I'm not sure if they deserve enough compassion. Just out the back, just because they're sick. Yeah.

Mike [00:31:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:31:17]:
Saying that.

Mike [00:31:17]:
How do we know?

Eldar [00:31:18]:
We as reasonable humans and logical humans who are trying to live good lives. Right. We have a choice. Right? We have a choice. Get frustrated.

Mike [00:31:28]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:31:28]:
With the person. Right. Who is sick, which is pretty silly. Right. Would you not be, you know, like I said, that example of, like, a person in the wheelchair runs over your foot by accident, and you start getting crazy at that.

Mike [00:31:39]:
Well, yeah. Yeah.

Eldar [00:31:40]:
You're like, come on.

Mike [00:31:41]:
But would you say that being disrespectful or being inconsiderate or being selfish is also sickness?

Eldar [00:31:47]:
I mean. Yeah.

Mike [00:31:48]:
Right.

Eldar [00:31:49]:
Inability to value righteousness. Do what's right is sickness. 100%. You're not a disadvantage here.

Mike [00:31:55]:
No.

Eldar [00:31:57]:
If you're seeing it for what it is you see that the person who doesn't have the courtesy that they can extend towards you, then you understand that they're not the right. They're not right. Not. They're not right. They're not a right person.

Mike [00:32:08]:
And to that person, then what is old is compassion.

Eldar [00:32:12]:
No, not necessarily. No, no.

Toliy [00:32:14]:
I think everyone has their, like, limits.

Eldar [00:32:16]:
Yeah. What you can extend to them, you can if you have. But in the ideal world, it's not old. No, no. It's not old in the world. I think they probably, you know.

Mike [00:32:28]:
In a utopian thing where we're trying to, you know, what I'm feeling is like we're trying to figure out the right way to handle situation.

Eldar [00:32:35]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:32:35]:
The most ideal way.

Eldar [00:32:36]:
Like Jesus said, mike, that which has no sin, then throw the first stone. Right. Like, if you don't have. If you've never sinned.

Mike [00:32:45]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:32:46]:
And throw the stone. Yeah.

Mike [00:32:47]:
I think that's important. I think a lot of. A lot of us.

Toliy [00:32:50]:
What is that saying?

Eldar [00:32:52]:
Yes, what he said. He said, you know, like, you know, there was some kind of a. I think there was some, I don't know, probably butcher. But maybe religious people help me. There was some kind of a court was happening and they were judging this person to like, stone her or something. This lady who committed adultery or something. She committed something wrong. She stole something.

Eldar [00:33:14]:
Right. And the whole crowd around, right. Was like, kill her.

Toliy [00:33:19]:
Kill her.

Eldar [00:33:20]:
Throw the rocks at her. You know? And then Jesus comes through. Right. And then. And they're looking at him like, what's he gonna do? You know what I mean? He says the person who's innocent told the first stone. Like, who's innocent here. Yeah. And nobody picked up the stone.

Mike [00:33:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:33:36]:
Right. So what does that show you? What does that tell you?

Mike [00:33:40]:
I think that's a big part of the anger, is that we're all hypocrites.

Eldar [00:33:44]:
Yeah. That's what he's trying to tell us. Right, in that. In that.

Mike [00:33:47]:
At least in that. But I think in general, I think a lot of us, right, we get angry with people.

Eldar [00:33:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:33:54]:
For the things that we commit as well. Just in different things in different time, in different times, different time, potentially similar scenarios.

Eldar [00:34:01]:
100%.

Mike [00:34:01]:
And I think that's a. That's a serious.

Eldar [00:34:04]:
I mean, yeah. That's a human condition.

Mike [00:34:06]:
Sick illness.

Eldar [00:34:07]:
And that's why he reminded you. Right. He says, hey, if you're not a sinner, if you're clean.

Mike [00:34:12]:
Yeah, go ahead.

Eldar [00:34:14]:
Yeah. Then throw the first stone. You know, and everybody's like, oh, you too kind of thing. You know, so, yeah, Mike, I think that if you have that capability to, you know, do the Jesus thing, you know, turn the other cheek and do compassion. Do it.

Mike [00:34:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:34:30]:
I'm not sure if everyone has that.

Mike [00:34:34]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:34:34]:
It's all. Also, I think, like, that, like, what could make. I think, like, the path to truth confusing is justification.

Eldar [00:34:42]:
Okay.

Toliy [00:34:43]:
Because I don't feel like everybody has the same, like, justification, like, system or, like. Like, with that example. Right. Like, people would be like, oh, but like, she stole. You know? Well, someone's like, yeah, but you cheated.

Eldar [00:34:56]:
Two weeks ago yesterday. Yeah. Right, correct.

Toliy [00:34:58]:
And then everyone's like, no, that's different. You know, like, there's always those kind of interactions. So people, on, like, an individual basis, they, like, justify different things that might be, like, protection towards themselves, for example.

Eldar [00:35:14]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:35:14]:
But then not like, towards others as well. Like, the difference. Everyone. Everyone individually has their own scales.

Eldar [00:35:20]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:35:21]:
Feelings towards, like, what's bad and what's good and what's, like, a higher. Or, like, what's acceptable.

Eldar [00:35:26]:
What's not acceptable. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:35:29]:
And that part about it is, like.

Eldar [00:35:30]:
I think it's very difficult.

Toliy [00:35:32]:
Yeah. It gets confusing for people to get to.

Eldar [00:35:34]:
True.

Toliy [00:35:35]:
Because of that.

Eldar [00:35:36]:
Yeah. 100%. I think the way to relieve that is to try to see things for what they are, hopefully through tools like logic.

Toliy [00:35:42]:
Yes. That. Then it, like, removes the.

Eldar [00:35:44]:
You know what I mean?

Toliy [00:35:45]:
Individual.

Eldar [00:35:46]:
Correct. Like feelings.

Toliy [00:35:47]:
Feelings, yeah. It makes you align with what.

Eldar [00:35:50]:
Yeah.

Mike [00:35:50]:
Is.

Eldar [00:35:51]:
Well, you got to do it a lot of the times on the fly. Right. Because these types of situations that volcanoes that erupt, like you said, out of nowhere, you're like, oh, shit.

Mike [00:36:00]:
No, but they erupt out of nowhere. But the thing is, it's always traceable.

Eldar [00:36:03]:
Correct.

Mike [00:36:03]:
That's what I was thinking about earlier.

Eldar [00:36:05]:
The person who has the ability to see things for what they are and could stay in that zone of logically putting everything in its place, understands that this individual is reacting this way because of this. Therefore I will act this way, and this is going to be the outcome. And the person who doesn't get sucked in. Into the volcano.

Mike [00:36:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:36:25]:
Gets burned by it.

Mike [00:36:28]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:36:29]:
Right. Because Tom could have easily started a fight. He probably did. What is that? Dad? What the fuck?

Tommy [00:36:33]:
I did. I mean.

Eldar [00:36:34]:
Oh, he did.

Tommy [00:36:35]:
I cast him out, you know, in his own home. What the hell?

Mike [00:36:38]:
You kicked him out of the house?

Eldar [00:36:40]:
Wow. Sick. In his pajamas.

Tommy [00:36:42]:
I mean, it was like I buried it when I should have actually used it. Should have used it for. And I think. I think that I'm coming around to this idea that there's this frustration. It'll stand in your way. It's kind of like playing basketball to you. It's like you want to get the win, but these guys are fierce or something like that. And you use that anger because you realize that the challenge is standing right in front of you, you know? But I guess the wrong way of going about it is, I guess, reacting to your anger.

Toliy [00:37:16]:
Yeah, yeah. See, what Tom is saying? Also, like, I also think that expectations are a big attachment. Yeah. Like, attachment to an outcome or, like, yeah, we want to desire things, definitely, I think, can create anger 100%, you know?

Eldar [00:37:31]:
Is it the root? Yeah. Is it the root?

Toliy [00:37:34]:
Yeah. Especially, like, you know, in basketball court, if you're, like. You're assuming that, oh, no one's gonna foul you too hard or, like. Or, like, cheat or, like. Like, you know, intentionally hit you and stuff like that. And then, like, people are doing this in the court. Like, you sometimes forget that. Like, there's people that are willing to potentially go that, like, that way.

Toliy [00:37:53]:
That way. Or they may not understand what they're doing. Stuff like that. And those expectations of, like, oh, like, okay, let's just play competitive basketball when something is happening. Like, let's, you know, call a foul when it's a foul.

Eldar [00:38:04]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:38:04]:
Right. But, like, you know, if someone's willing to intentionally injure one. Somebody to get a win.

Eldar [00:38:09]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:38:10]:
Sometimes it's not, like, expected that, like, oh, yeah, this is where this person's willing to go.

Eldar [00:38:15]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:38:15]:
And that definitely can breed anger, because at the end of the day, it's catching you off guard, 100%.

Eldar [00:38:22]:
I think that's one of the reasons why you said you wanted to take the time out. Right? Because it wasn't serving you. Right. It wasn't giving you what you wanted because you were getting frustrated. Alex, what you got for us? What do you think? This anger shit?

Guest [00:38:36]:
Um, it's just a part of being human is. This is one of the things life is unfair. And there's gotta be, um. There's a coding term. Garbage in, garbage out.

Eldar [00:38:48]:
Okay?

Guest [00:38:49]:
So if you're just taking a bunch of crap, of course you're gonna respond in a very, like, negative way, like, about it, which could be anger.

Eldar [00:38:56]:
Yeah.

Guest [00:38:56]:
Himself. Yeah. Um. But I don't. I don't think it's a bad thing, per se. Like, have you seen the Pixar movie inside out?

Eldar [00:39:07]:
I think I did, yeah.

Guest [00:39:08]:
Cause they kept thinking sadness was, like, a negative emotion. We shouldn't be sad, shouldn't be happy all the time.

Eldar [00:39:13]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Guest [00:39:13]:
But because of sadness, the parents were to recognize that there was a problem happening and that they need to sit down and address it.

Eldar [00:39:19]:
Correct.

Guest [00:39:20]:
I think of anger also as that way, too. It's also a necessity, because if you seem happy and everything's all good, you're not gonna, like, worry about them. You're not gonna realize there is a leak happening in the house until your whole wall comes down.

Eldar [00:39:33]:
Yeah, that's interesting. So you almost kind of like using it. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, yeah.

Toliy [00:39:37]:
But, see, like, in the way I can think that Alex was, like, saying it was like. Like, I think when she first started saying it, she said, you said it was like, a human. Like, it's part of being a human. See, like, I think, you know, it's a start. Like, it's normalizing it. Right. And saying that, like, this is part of, like, humans and how we're made up. Like, it's an innate feeling.

Eldar [00:39:59]:
Right. That's almost saying that we can't understand it. Right. You're saying that we're.

Toliy [00:40:04]:
Well, no, that it's. It's just like, it is what it is, kind of.

Eldar [00:40:07]:
Well, that's what I'm saying. Where we can't actually tap into using it. But then she said, hey, we can tap in. Into you.

Toliy [00:40:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:40:13]:
And we should, like, sadness in that example.

Toliy [00:40:16]:
Yeah, yeah, in that example. Yeah. By. But I almost feel like what. What you're saying is that, like, it's a. Like, it's just part of the human experience is to, like, have anger or to show anger. Like, I'm viewing it as that. Like, it's an inability to be, like, logical.

Eldar [00:40:36]:
Right.

Toliy [00:40:36]:
Or see things for what they are. So I think it's, like, the anger side of it is, like, a learned behavior, and then it's a learned expression. But I do think that we can live in a world maybe not where everybody is like that, but maybe where, like, us, as individuals, strive to not. Like, you feel that we have to use anger or, like, whether it's conscious, definitely not the unconscious one, where it's just, like, you flip out and you have this outburst where you can't control it. I definitely think that we could try to communicate in better ways to others and for ourselves, even if we're not being angry at somebody in front of themselves. Or maybe, like, being angry at ourselves. Like, I think that we. We can't strive to find better ways to, like, to communicate.

Guest [00:41:27]:
Yeah, I hear that, but I see it as, um. I understand the learned behavior thing, but I feel like the intensity of your anger is a learned behavior. Like, really? Yeah. So a child can say, like, they really want a toy at the store, and the parent says no. One child can just, like, flip out and have a massive tantrum and just, like, destroy half the products because they were upset. And the parent doesn't discipline about the. They let them do that, and they keep doing that. As an adult, they, like, ruin things and everything because that's how they were trained.

Guest [00:42:00]:
But another child could be upset and disappointed, but they can just, like, take a deep breath and be like, okay, and then use that as a form of, like. But why ask questions? How come, like, is there not enough money? Was I not good this year? That kind of thing? And I just feel like there's, like, different forms of it that can be used.

Toliy [00:42:19]:
But I think that, like, the first child is having, like, you know, like, a clear anger outburst.

Eldar [00:42:24]:
Right?

Toliy [00:42:24]:
Like, an uncontrollable reaction, because, like, they clearly don't understand what's happening, what the second child is like.

Eldar [00:42:31]:
Well, no, I think. I think nothing. The way what she said is actually. No, they understand exactly what's happening. That kid knows to take it to. From zero to 100 real quick because she's gonna get what he wants.

Toliy [00:42:40]:
Yeah, no, that. That's for sure. But I'm saying, is that, like, the way that he's having this, like, the way that this was trained.

Eldar [00:42:46]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:42:47]:
Right.

Eldar [00:42:48]:
He's built that up. Right. First time he was level two, level three, level four. Now he's level ten, because, you know, it's like, I need to get this as soon as possible. I need to do what. I need to throw whatever fit that I need to in order to get what I want.

Toliy [00:42:58]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just think that, for example, like, kid number two, like, if he's asking questions or trying to, like, you know, understand this situation.

Eldar [00:43:07]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:43:08]:
I'm not sure if he has to, like, resort to the. Like. Like, it's. Yeah, like, oftentimes, like.

Eldar [00:43:14]:
Well, it sounds like kid number two didn't even experience anger. Or did he?

Guest [00:43:18]:
Well, when you feel anger, you feel like. Well, for me, it is like. Like a quick little hot flash.

Eldar [00:43:24]:
Like, okay. Like.

Guest [00:43:25]:
Like a starting of a fire or, like, lighting, like, a lighter.

Eldar [00:43:28]:
Okay.

Guest [00:43:28]:
For a second. But you can choose, like, with pursuit.

Eldar [00:43:32]:
Make it bigger.

Guest [00:43:32]:
Yeah, like, make it bigger. Light it up. Or you can just, like, hush it to, like, embers.

Toliy [00:43:37]:
So why do you have that reaction to it to begin with?

Guest [00:43:40]:
I feel like that's the question. Why? Because I feel like it's just.

Toliy [00:43:47]:
Yeah, like, why do you have to get to that point where it's, like, it's lit and now you have, like, a system in place to, like, suppress it. Suppress it. Like, why is that. Why is that, like, emotion or why is that, like, why is that scenario.

Eldar [00:44:02]:
Happening, I guess, in the first place? Yeah. Why do you turn into igniting the switch?

Guest [00:44:07]:
That's where I feel like it's just part of being human. It's an innate, like, thing that we have.

Eldar [00:44:12]:
Do you feel like you can ever get to a point where you have the actual reason and then you have the choice in the matter?

Guest [00:44:18]:
Yeah. If you work on anything, like, long enough, you can eventually reach that point. It's not really, like, how much you want it, but more of just, like, not really how much.

Eldar [00:44:29]:
So what would you. So what would you call that then? If now you're human.

Guest [00:44:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:44:33]:
And this happens because you're human. Right. What happens when you know, so you can control that at any given point because you become superhuman?

Guest [00:44:43]:
In a way we could. You could say, isn't that what Nietzsche said at one point, the Ubermensch, the superhuman superhero? When you evolve past the point of, like, your. Yeah, your silly emotions.

Eldar [00:44:54]:
Like, your animalistic tendency.

Guest [00:44:56]:
Yeah. Like, you can recognize, like, oh, it's here, but I don't have to act on it. That kind of thing.

Eldar [00:45:01]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:45:01]:
Okay.

Eldar [00:45:02]:
Or not even have it.

Guest [00:45:03]:
Right.

Eldar [00:45:04]:
Have the ability to foresee the steps that led you there in the first place. Yeah.

Guest [00:45:10]:
It's like, oh, I know this situation is gonna get me angry, so let me not go over there or let me take different steps than I normally would do so I can avoid that entirely.

Toliy [00:45:19]:
Do you guys think that getting angry, wherever that. Yeah. So I don't believe that it's, like, a humane instinct. Like, I don't think that it was just, like, when you're born, it's just inside of you. Right. Do you think that there was, like, if you guys agree, do you think that there was a certain point where, like. Because, like, when you guys are talking about it, like, if you're able to control it, now we're calling this, like, a superhuman almost. Right.

Toliy [00:45:53]:
Do you think that it could be that actually anger itself is inhumane and, like, being a human is part of not being angry?

Eldar [00:46:01]:
Well, yeah. You just took it one step lower.

Toliy [00:46:03]:
Yeah. Like. Like, I don't know. Like it. Like, to me, it's almost like, if.

Eldar [00:46:07]:
We agree with you to say that anger is not an actual innate thing.

Toliy [00:46:12]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:46:13]:
Right. If we agree with that.

Toliy [00:46:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:46:15]:
Then I would. Yes, I would say that if we're just human. We're born into this world human, and we're not. We don't have this quality innate in us, but we lowered ourselves to experience anger. Then we definitely went lower than human 100%. Then we look human. But then trying to figure out how to be superhuman is actually just regular human.

Toliy [00:46:32]:
Yeah. Because I hear oftentimes, like, in general, not. Not only about, like, anger or not being angry or, like, you know, someone is, like, super nice or, I don't know, super respectful, like. Or, like, I don't know, very honest. Just, like, you could tell that someone's, like, a good person or something. Right? Like, when people talk about that individual, they almost bring them up to that, like, super, like, supernatural form.

Eldar [00:47:00]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:47:00]:
When, like, it seems like these ways of carrying yourself and, like, acting, like. Like, I think that, like, in an ideal world, they should be, like, the baseline versus, like, what's the ideal world, though? Yeah, well, I think just, like, living as a human correctly. Like, I don't think that it needs to be, like, a. Like, I'm not sure if it's, like, a supernatural thing or. It's like, this is what natural is. This is what it's supposed to be, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [00:47:31]:
Living anger angry less.

Toliy [00:47:34]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike [00:47:36]:
I wanted to ask, is anger byproduct something?

Eldar [00:47:42]:
Right.

Mike [00:47:43]:
It's not the. It's not. This was. It's not this smoke. It's the. There's a reason why that came about.

Eldar [00:47:50]:
Mm hmm.

Mike [00:47:50]:
So I would like to explore what actually causes anger. So then maybe we can try to understand it as well. Like, why. Why, obviously, the desires is, you know, one thing.

Eldar [00:48:00]:
Well, there's two things that we're working with. Right. Number one, Tolie's thing. We found out as humans that it's a way of communicating. It might not be the most effective way of communicating, but nonetheless, it is a communication style. Style. Right, right. The kid that throws that tantrum, he gets the candy.

Eldar [00:48:20]:
Not all the time. Not all moms succumb to it, but most mom probably do. Right. That's why the world's running amok, and that's why we're doing this, to tame them, you know? So, yeah, that's a form of communication. That's number one. So that kid learned that if I get angry enough, I know that my mom will fall and buy me the candy.

Mike [00:48:41]:
Is it a form of expression? Communication, same thing. Well, yeah, expression and communication, same thing.

Eldar [00:48:46]:
Yeah, yeah, I think so. Communicating. He's communicating something.

Mike [00:48:48]:
So what are you trying to express to get something why are you trying to express something?

Eldar [00:48:51]:
Well, there you go. Well, look how I'm gonna tie this. The other part is, right. The other part that we talked about is the fact that we have a desired outcome that we have attached ourselves to. If we don't, we get angry. You see that? Right. So therefore, right. We have to use this as a form of expressing ourselves.

Tommy [00:49:11]:
Right.

Eldar [00:49:11]:
Whether to use it as a to get to means to get it or to display that we didn't get it, you know? Right. And obviously it's on the style of a primitive communication.

Mike [00:49:22]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:49:22]:
We were showing here that there's probably other ways of communicating by seeing things for what they are. All right. The kid that kind of understands that mom said no because of this reason. Right. He has other reasons. Or she gave him reasons as to think, okay, I'm angry a little because I didn't get what I wanted, but I have reasons as to calm myself down.

Mike [00:49:45]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:49:46]:
I have an argument. Right. Hey, mom, give me this. No angry. Okay, mom, let's have a conversation. Why not? Let's have a conversation. Why not? What's the problem? I don't understand this reason. And then you can have a dialogue to see whether or not you can still get your candy based on reasoning and hopefully logic from logical structure.

Toliy [00:50:05]:
For example, the mom might be saying no to the kid, but the kid actually has a sister. And what happened was that the mom bought a giant bowl of candy, and that bowl was gone during the week. And the mom is saying no to the kid thinking that, oh, he was the one that did this.

Eldar [00:50:19]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [00:50:20]:
So she's denying him the kid. He's saying, hey, like, generally she's thinking like, he ate too much already for the week. Right. When the kid actually it was a sister who ate them, ate it all. It wasn't even the kid.

Eldar [00:50:31]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:50:32]:
So I think, like, in that case, you could have that dialogue and she could say, like, yeah, well, like, you know, Charlie, you ate all the candy during. During the week, so you can't have any more. It's been like, right.

Guest [00:50:45]:
And.

Toliy [00:50:45]:
And he's like, well, actually, they don't have any of it. And she's like, well, what do you mean? Well, Sally ate all of it.

Eldar [00:50:52]:
Yeah.

Toliy [00:50:53]:
So, like, yeah. Like, in that kind of dialogue, you could have it. You know, if you have two people that discuss something, you could potentially have a reasonable outcome.

Eldar [00:51:00]:
Correct. Yeah. And maybe avoid anger and avoid. Right. Because obviously, I mean, nobody can sit here and say that anger is good.

Toliy [00:51:10]:
Yeah. And the kid might have a good reason for flipping out because, like, now the sister ate all this candy. Yeah, that was supposed to be kind of potentially, like, split 50 50. And now he's having a crazy outbreak because now the mom is saying, no, the sister took everything, and now he's.

Eldar [00:51:24]:
Like, the bad guy.

Toliy [00:51:25]:
Yes. And. And again, if you look at the situation from an outside perspective, everybody is feeling a certain type of way because they're all. All of them are lacking information.

Eldar [00:51:35]:
Yeah. The mom. The mom was not privy to know that the daughter ate all the stuff.

Toliy [00:51:41]:
And I. Yeah.

Eldar [00:51:41]:
So she's assuming. Make an assumption and putting it on Charlie.

Toliy [00:51:45]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:51:45]:
Charlie's innocent here. And now he feels betrayed.

Toliy [00:51:48]:
Yes.

Eldar [00:51:49]:
Betrayal.

Toliy [00:51:49]:
Yeah. Now, actually, the mom loves the sister more because she's buying all this candy.

Eldar [00:51:53]:
But little that, you know, Charlie's smarter than you think. So he looks at the mom and realized that mom's an idiot. And he does. And does what? He goes, okay, I'm gonna show compassion, mom. It's okay. I realize that you don't have the ability to see things for what they are and walks away. No, that usually doesn't happen, but maybe.

Guest [00:52:12]:
In your video game it will in a perfect world.

Eldar [00:52:14]:
Yeah, because you're working on the perfect game. Right.

Tommy [00:52:17]:
So whatever you just said, tom, you. Charlie bit my finger.

Eldar [00:52:25]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Mike [00:52:28]:
So desires can cause anger.

Eldar [00:52:32]:
Well, a lot of times they do.

Mike [00:52:34]:
And what about what causes desires?

Eldar [00:52:36]:
Attachment.

Mike [00:52:37]:
Attachment causes desire.

Eldar [00:52:39]:
Yeah, attachment. Yeah, attachment to. You want something. Right? So you attach yourself. Right? And you. You created the desire for that. You don't get it. You get angry.

Mike [00:52:49]:
So what causes attachment? Like, where did. Where did that dear birth in the first place?

Eldar [00:52:54]:
Values do you value with some shit.

Toliy [00:52:57]:
Do you guys view as, like, when you want something and you attack. Like, when you're talking about attachment, I'm almost picturing it now. Like, every time you want something, you, like, cut off a piece of yourself and you put it to that thing.

Eldar [00:53:11]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:53:11]:
And because you're not getting it, it's like a ace of you is gone.

Eldar [00:53:16]:
Correct.

Toliy [00:53:17]:
Right, correct.

Eldar [00:53:17]:
So, like, you subject yourself to suffering by doing what you're talking about. If you're putting yourself to say, okay, I want that. So if I want that and I don't get that, that's not part of me. That's it. Like, some part of me dies 100%.

Toliy [00:53:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:53:32]:
Because you yourself imagine having that toy, playing with it, enjoying it, showing it off and all that stuff. You already did that in your head.

Toliy [00:53:41]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:53:41]:
Right. So now you don't have it. You can't play out that whole scenario that you did in your imagination. Absolutely. Yeah. So I think, yeah, that's definitely. And that hurts. So if it hurts, then what do you do? You lash out if you don't know any other way to communicate.

Eldar [00:53:55]:
Tom, you in your thirties, you're still punishing your dad with anger. Talk about that.

Tommy [00:53:59]:
It's ridiculous. I mean, I think that, like, this idea of anger as fuel is something new to me. It's something that I read in the artist's way, Julia Cameron's artist's way. It's like week three. You face your anger, and it's a twelve week course. The thing is preparing, in a way, I think that's kind of what the chapter tries to teach you, is preparing to know what triggers you and what makes you angry. And sort of like, checking in what the suggestions are. I can't recall right now.

Tommy [00:54:34]:
It's been a little while, but.

Eldar [00:54:38]:
If.

Tommy [00:54:38]:
Anger is really what could help push you to just go that extra amount? You know what we were just saying, right? We were talking about books. And I was saying, I was saying to Mike, if you want to, like, learn how to become like somebody. Alex mentioned that Prince Harry's new book is coming out soon, and so, like, books can be very useful. Like, if I want to understand, for example, how you make decisions, you know, I might come around here, right? Which is a very specific set of, you know, steps that we take. So if, like, if you wanted to learn what it's like for a prince to lose everything, for example, or to change his entire life, right, to, like, remove himself from royalty and go and live in the suburbs or something, or.

Eldar [00:55:27]:
Like, have a regular nine to five.

Tommy [00:55:29]:
Job, and you want to use that as an analogy, right, to. Of like, you know, giving up your job in finance and going to travel the world, well, then the connections are very clear. I mean, you can make these unbelievable connections.

Eldar [00:55:43]:
Yeah, but, like, anger.

Tommy [00:55:45]:
And see what I'm saying? Like, anger can have a specific connection with something, like, adjacently related. You know what I'm saying? Like, you can be angry and use that anger because you want to express something.

Eldar [00:56:00]:
I'd be careful with making comparisons with Princess Harry's lifestyle and, like, regular people's lifestyle.

Tommy [00:56:06]:
Well, what if he's angry? What if he was angry with the.

Eldar [00:56:08]:
No, no, sure, sure. No. There might be some human connection that we can definitely draw from, but you have to be very good at spotting those and linking them, right? Correlation does not mean causation, but a lot of people get that confused and they say, oh, look, Prince Harry did it, therefore I can do it and stuff like that. He's a completely different circumstance. I'll be very careful of subjecting yourself to those and looking for answers in those types of books, especially a one that's probably driven because they want to make money.

Tommy [00:56:35]:
Yeah, but what do you think about just finding truth in things like, um. I just feel like, I think. I mean, maybe there's.

Eldar [00:56:43]:
I'm gonna.

Tommy [00:56:43]:
I want to say there's truth in art, and. And if that's your art, if your art is to, I'm gonna jump into this, or I'm gonna immerse myself into this, not knowing what's gonna happen and trying to find a connection. Well, I feel like the truth is that the connection will exist if it emerges at some point. It doesn't necessarily have to be, oh, I'm looking for this, and that's the specific thing that I'm gonna about to.

Eldar [00:57:05]:
If an artist has the ability to, number one, say, I'm doing this to evoke this particular emotion, then he creates the piece, and then he surveys the individuals that looked at his piece and said, I did invoke that emotion because he got the survey done. Then I would say there's truth in art. A lot of times, unfortunately, there is no connection between one, two and then three. Right. What happens is the message is then interpreted by an individual like yourself or myself. Very subjectively, you might be seeing, oh, this is a beautiful painting. Right? This is so nice. And I'm gonna look at it and say, this is ugly as shit.

Eldar [00:57:41]:
Right. It's invoking anger in me. You're like, oh, I'm on the beach right now. I feel great looking at this thing. So then where's the truth in that? Objective art, I think, is there's no truth in objective art. I think. I personally think. Now, if you, like you said, if the artist went to do this to evoke anger and you got anger out of it, I think there's definitely a correlation between what he tried to do, what you saw, and what actually happened.

Eldar [00:58:04]:
Then I would say this. There's a truth to this equation. No?

Toliy [00:58:09]:
Yeah. And there are, I think, pieces of.

Eldar [00:58:10]:
Art and 100% invoke correct.

Toliy [00:58:12]:
You know, this is like a gloomy, sad thing, right?

Eldar [00:58:16]:
Yeah. Super happy or inspiration. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I. Yeah.

Toliy [00:58:20]:
But, yeah.

Eldar [00:58:21]:
Abstract art sometimes can be very. Yeah.

Toliy [00:58:23]:
I think trying to find art in truth is a dangerous look.

Eldar [00:58:28]:
It's tough.

Toliy [00:58:29]:
Yeah. Because it's very tough. Yeah, yeah. It's a very subjective experience and, like, yeah, definitely lead you a wrong way, it could potentially.

Eldar [00:58:38]:
Correct. Yeah, correct. I think that's why a lot of writer artists probably have, like, blocks. Mental blocks.

Guest [00:58:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:58:49]:
She says yes.

Guest [00:58:50]:
Yeah. I also paint. I get a lot of cool.

Eldar [00:58:52]:
Yeah.

Guest [00:58:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [00:58:53]:
You know? Yeah. I mean, because. Yeah, you could get lost in that. And that's part of the artist's way, obviously, you know? And that's, you know, your personal preference as an artist to get stuck, because you constantly talk about getting stuck and not knowing.

Tommy [00:59:05]:
I do. And it's funny because today, when I had some, like, productivity, that's not on.

Eldar [00:59:10]:
My mind at all. Yeah.

Tommy [00:59:11]:
When it. When it's those days that I can't, like, I can't. I have a problem that I can't figure out. It becomes everything. You know? It becomes, like, the entire entirety of my day.

Eldar [00:59:25]:
Yeah. That's why I think that you might, if you want. I mean, unless you like it, you might want to evaluate that, your relationship with art and how you perceive it. Right. I think it's a big philosophical question. What is art? You know, it's hard to answer, you know? So. Because, like I said, the thing that I explained to you, the equation of the artist wanted to paint this, wanted to get this reaction. Got that reaction.

Eldar [00:59:55]:
He's not doing art to me. He's doing math. Right.

Guest [01:00:00]:
I agree.

Eldar [01:00:00]:
You know, so Banksy is an example. Right? Yeah. What is he, like, a political artist? Right. A lot of his stuff invokes, like, political injustice and stuff like that. I understand it. It's cool. Shit, I like that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? Like, even, like, political satire, you know, that the cartoons that they draw about the politics and stuff, those are really cool.

Eldar [01:00:19]:
You get the message, you know?

Toliy [01:00:22]:
You know, but it's a very calculated.

Eldar [01:00:24]:
It's a very calculated approach. It's a mathematical approach.

Toliy [01:00:27]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:00:28]:
They want to draw this particular thing because there's a message behind it, and they want you to feel it.

Toliy [01:00:32]:
Yeah. It's marketing.

Eldar [01:00:33]:
Exactly.

Toliy [01:00:33]:
You know?

Eldar [01:00:34]:
Yeah.

Guest [01:00:36]:
During the wars.

Eldar [01:00:36]:
During the wars is a perfect example.

Toliy [01:00:38]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Guest [01:00:40]:
It's like, don't like this guy because, look, Adrian was a pig. You're supposed to hate him. Disgusting.

Eldar [01:00:45]:
He's so dirty. Yes. So back to anger. Tom, sounds like you're angry at your art. Yeah.

Tommy [01:00:55]:
I think maybe that's relevant for me today a little bit, but not. Not a huge thing. But, I mean, it is interesting to me what it could mean when you. When we want to make anger sort of like a functional thing, that will help.

Eldar [01:01:11]:
Yeah. Well, then it's not anger. At all. Totally saying, if you have the ability to tap into this type of form of anger that we talked about in order to accomplish particular goals. Right. Without really getting stressed out. Right. Because anger stresses us out.

Eldar [01:01:29]:
Right. But if you tap into it proper and you can get your puppy to do what you want them to do without internalizing it and it's working, then you're using it as a tool to accomplish what you want. Otherwise, you probably just. Yeah, you're compromised.

Toliy [01:01:43]:
Do you think that, like, the people that act this way in the basketball court that you have to do you view them the same way as your puppy?

Eldar [01:01:50]:
100%. Like, a hundred percent, dude. I don't. I don't. In that moment, I don't view them as that. But, like, right now, reflecting it, that is exactly how what's happening. You know what I mean? I have to, like, bark back to train them to act according to court. For some people.

Eldar [01:02:09]:
Yeah. Not all, obviously, but for some people, they do. And. And it's good sometimes when you give me feedback on those people, because I know now that this individual operates and thinks and talks and communicates in this language. I know that language really well. So I tap into it and I yell harder and louder. Yeah.

Toliy [01:02:28]:
And is that because when you're doing the moment, you believe that that's an.

Eldar [01:02:33]:
Effective form of communication to get my point across, get. Get where we need to go as fast as possible.

Toliy [01:02:37]:
But do you believe that you could go a different route? Like, you could.

Eldar [01:02:43]:
I got no time for him. No, but do you have that moment? I came to play basketball. I came to play basketball on my terms, how I want to play. I have no time to have him chime in into the way I play. I'm not. Not about to sit him down and have an hour long conversation explaining. To explain to him that he's a dumbass. That's what you're asking?

Toliy [01:03:03]:
No. Like, do you think that there are, like. Like, more like. Like, logical, reasonable, like, ways that you could have a conversation with this individual, or do you kind of, like, rule.

Eldar [01:03:13]:
Out, you say you want me to not be a wolf with a wolfenk?

Toliy [01:03:16]:
Yeah. Like, do you. Do you think that, like, this person.

Eldar [01:03:18]:
Is just at this moment with the way I am?

Toliy [01:03:21]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:03:23]:
And this is the point of communication that I'm using. No, I do not believe so. No. There could be. I haven't discovered it yet. This has been working pretty well. I think I promoted. I think Tom, you know, is trying to figure it out, says, you know, I want to use this as a tool.

Eldar [01:03:42]:
Promote it.

Tommy [01:03:43]:
I mean, it's. Here's the thing, and I'm promoting it.

Eldar [01:03:45]:
To you with the challenge. Anytime you have to challenge your parents.

Toliy [01:03:48]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:03:49]:
You're gonna find yourself getting, you know, I think using that because that's the language that they understand. Yeah. You know what? We. You know, we don't take it personal anymore, but we use it a way to communicate and get across to the individuals that speak that language. I don't think there's any wrong with that, because ultimately, I don't know. I don't wish them poorly told.

Toliy [01:04:13]:
Yeah, that I don't wish. I'm saying is that I'm only viewing anger in the uncontrollable form where it's, like, it's reactionary.

Eldar [01:04:21]:
Yeah, no, well, that again, then we're talking. What I'm doing is I'm using a form of anger. Right. That it's not really.

Toliy [01:04:29]:
I don't even know.

Eldar [01:04:29]:
Anger.

Toliy [01:04:30]:
Yeah. It's like.

Eldar [01:04:31]:
Like, for example, I'm acting, bro.

Toliy [01:04:33]:
Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, in, for example, in, like, sales training, a big conversation is like a tonality.

Eldar [01:04:41]:
Yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:04:42]:
Right. Like, you're not gonna just talk like this every time and just have everything be the same. Like.

Eldar [01:04:47]:
No, yeah.

Toliy [01:04:48]:
Monetary, like, like, yeah. And they're real advanced things. Like, they. They teach you and train you as to, like, where you go up, where you go down, where you start talking a little bit faster and then intentionally slow down right at the moment where.

Eldar [01:05:00]:
You need to sit the punch. Yeah.

Toliy [01:05:03]:
Like, say something. Right. Like, that's like, the use of, like, tones and words to try to, like, invoke a particular, like, emotion or outcome or get something to happen.

Eldar [01:05:16]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:05:17]:
So. Right, right. Like, that's obviously, like.

Eldar [01:05:19]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:05:20]:
They're not actually, like, unconsciously expressing that. Right. Like, people don't just unconsciously use different tones up or down. Like.

Eldar [01:05:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:05:29]:
When they're trying to do it in that strategic way. Like, it's obviously, like, intentionally being done.

Eldar [01:05:34]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's exactly what it is.

Toliy [01:05:37]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:05:37]:
You know, I think in any craft, comedy, acting, anything.

Toliy [01:05:41]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:05:41]:
They're gonna teach you talking and being able to convey your message such a way where it's the most effective. Yeah. You know, so sometimes it has to be yelling, like you said. Right. But the key is to be able to withhold and have self control and internal self control to know that you're not gonna get compromised. The next thing you know, you're in a fistfight somebody. You know what I mean? Because you got out of control. And you do.

Toliy [01:06:05]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:06:05]:
Punch. I'm not trying to do that. I'm not.

Toliy [01:06:08]:
No.

Eldar [01:06:08]:
Yeah. You know what I mean? Even though I think some people are willing to do that, that's. That's my last resort. I wouldn't want to do that. I wouldn't want to hit the kick, you know, but I can, and I might if it's needed, so. And I did before, too, you know? So this is definitely not the tools I'd like to use, but sometimes it's necessary. Hit somebody over the head, you know, unnecessary.

Toliy [01:06:34]:
Yeah, but they're a jugular.

Eldar [01:06:36]:
Yeah. Oh, my God. Now. Yeah, Tom. See, you never looked at it as that, but now you're looking at it as a way of. A form of a tool that can potentially help you, you know, get your point across a little bit better.

Tommy [01:06:51]:
I think it's very interesting because, I mean, we don't. We also talk about, like, fierce competitors.

Eldar [01:06:57]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:06:58]:
You're a pretty fierce competitor, I think.

Eldar [01:07:00]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:07:00]:
And what, when you said. What you. What you said last time about basketball was that you have, like, you realize you have an unhealthy relationship with basketball. You think there's any anger in there that you're trying to team or something like that?

Eldar [01:07:11]:
Yeah. The anger was coming at myself, because after I played a lot of basketball, I was very sore, and I was very hurt physically, and I would complain to myself and say, oh, this hurts. Oh, that hurts. So I realized that now I'm being angry at myself for not figuring out how to engage the game of basketball. I figured that out. What.

Toliy [01:07:32]:
Or were you expecting more of yourself in those moments? What, like, what? Was it that. Or were you expecting that, like, okay, like. Like that. Like, you're expecting yourself to not get that sore after doing what you just.

Eldar [01:07:45]:
Yeah. Yeah. I was stupid. Yeah. I was definitely naive. A lot of it was naive.

Toliy [01:07:50]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:07:50]:
Like, I was doing it. I was like, I'm still maybe young or whatever. I can do this.

Toliy [01:07:54]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:07:55]:
But the truth of the matter is, it wasn't. So as soon as I toned it down, it's the amount of basketball that I was engaging in was giving me problems. As soon as I tone it down, I'm no longer complaining. I'm still enjoying basketball. I'm still competitive. I still talk shit. I didn't want to change my game. I told you that before.

Eldar [01:08:09]:
I'm still playing the way I did, you know, and I'm still explosive. I still do all that stuff. It's just, I can't do it on five six games in a row. I can do it on two or three, and then I know my crashing, which is fine. You know, I accepted that about myself, and I'm no longer angry at myself or potentially others, maybe.

Toliy [01:08:27]:
Yeah. But when I say time, there could also be pleasant surprises, like, if you take care of yourself in better ways.

Eldar [01:08:36]:
Right.

Toliy [01:08:36]:
And, like, let's say if you eat better or sleep better and you work.

Eldar [01:08:39]:
Yeah, but I was told no solving problems.

Toliy [01:08:43]:
No, no, no. I'm saying that, like, along this journey, you may get to a point where you might be able to get back to playing five, six in a row. Like, if I could.

Eldar [01:08:55]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:08:55]:
If that might just happen.

Eldar [01:08:57]:
Great.

Toliy [01:08:57]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:08:57]:
Great. Yes. But those ifs. I'm not there yet.

Toliy [01:09:01]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:09:01]:
No, I'm not. I'm not eating right just yet. Right. I'm not sleeping right just yet. And all this other stuff.

Toliy [01:09:06]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:09:06]:
If one day this happens and I get pleasantly surprised that I can play again as much as I get, great. But I'm not betting on that right now. I had a presenting problem that I needed to solve, and it was just removing a little bit more time. That's a time thing.

Toliy [01:09:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:09:18]:
Less playing, less pain. Happy camper. If the food stuff lines up and the sleep lines up. Great. Yeah. I'll be presenting a surprise, but I want to be able to control things that I can do right now. Yeah. And food and those things can be tackled maybe later.

Eldar [01:09:32]:
That's just overwhelms my.

Guest [01:09:33]:
Sounds like the anger helped you realize there was a problem to be addressed.

Eldar [01:09:37]:
There you go. Yes. Anger. I myself. Yeah, that's right. 100%.

Guest [01:09:43]:
Why am I angry?

Eldar [01:09:44]:
Yeah. Well, we're not helping ace here, because most of the time, he's not. He's angry at himself. The person that poses the question about anger, he's. He's angry on the back end of it.

Toliy [01:09:55]:
So he shared that he's angry with himself afterwards.

Eldar [01:10:00]:
Well, no. The reason why he's making a change in the first place, because he's not happy with the outcomes. Right. So he's clearly reflecting on it and saying, I need to change something about it. So that's why he's coming back and saying, I'm not gonna do this anymore. I'm gonna do this with joy. That's his attempt to say, I'm gonna change and do something about it. Yeah.

Eldar [01:10:17]:
Right. But he gets angry, obviously, on both sides during the play and then afterwards, you know, so how can we help.

Mike [01:10:27]:
Him off the basketball court?

Eldar [01:10:30]:
Well, yeah, I mean, that's one option, right? Like, if you know that you're compromised.

Mike [01:10:34]:
No, I'm not saying to get off the basketball court. Oh, I'm saying off the basketball court.

Eldar [01:10:38]:
We can help.

Mike [01:10:38]:
We can't help him on the court.

Eldar [01:10:39]:
Oh, yeah.

Mike [01:10:39]:
We definitely have to come off the court first.

Eldar [01:10:41]:
Yeah, yeah, this is true. This is probably true. We can't help him off the court because it takes the time, I think, to sit down to reason through these things to really find out what's the root cause of this nonsense, this type of behavior.

Mike [01:10:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:10:53]:
And then we can do something about it. 100%.

Mike [01:10:54]:
Well, that's why I was trying to figure out, like, we know the cause of anger, which one of the causes, which is desires. That's why I was trying to work it backwards to see what are our desires from. Is it because we have certain visions of ourselves or things about ourselves that are not true? If you're coming to the basket court and you're thinking to score seven out of ten points, but you can barely score one because you're not in shape or you don't have a shot or you're 4ft tall. Right. So how you gonna do that? You know? So I think we may be going in there with unrealistic expectations of what we're capable of.

Eldar [01:11:32]:
Correct.

Mike [01:11:32]:
Or setting. And therefore setting unrealistic desires.

Eldar [01:11:35]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:11:35]:
But if we're setting unrealistic expectations, where do we get these expectations and why are they like. I'm trying to get it all the way down.

Eldar [01:11:43]:
Good question. Not to shit on people that are creative creators. Right? The art people create movies and stuff like that. And art. Right. I think a lot of it we get from that. Right.

Mike [01:11:54]:
We get into why.

Eldar [01:11:55]:
You watch Michael Jordan, right?

Mike [01:11:56]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:11:57]:
Watch Lebron James, right?

Mike [01:11:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:11:59]:
What happens? We start doing what? We start imitating them. Yeah. Right. We watch tv, watch any kind of movie. It starts inspiring us to do this type of thing. This type of thing, this type of thing. What's happening a lot of the times, unfortunately, right. We're not being explained that.

Eldar [01:12:14]:
That what we're watching is actually fair fiction. Not saying maybe in sports it's not. Right, but it still is. Right. Because we're not being explained that Michael Jordan, LeBron James are spending x amount of time on the practice, x amount of money on their body.

Mike [01:12:28]:
Yeah, of course.

Eldar [01:12:29]:
All this other stuff. Perfect, perfect scenarios, right?

Mike [01:12:32]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:12:32]:
Stars had to align to them. But a lot of times in fictional things like movies and stuff like that, people see that, you know, within an hour, within an hour or two span, you can fall in love, you can you can, you know, make x amount of money, become a millionaire, and all this other stuff. So what's happening is that you buy in, right? You buy in to that desire that you are actually have the capability of doing such a thing. So those movies, those shows, and stuff like that, they. They're doing injustice to our. To us.

Toliy [01:13:05]:
Sit here and decide, bankrupt the, uh.

Eldar [01:13:08]:
100%, or at least maybe change it. That's why I'm saying that the best thing that Tom can do, right, the best type of art that you can actually do is to do nothing. But you have to buy into that. That is the most righteous thing you can do for humanity, is to paint absolutely nothing.

Tommy [01:13:27]:
What do you think, Alex?

Guest [01:13:29]:
I agree.

Eldar [01:13:30]:
No. Are you serious?

Toliy [01:13:32]:
Wow.

Guest [01:13:34]:
I do that sometimes. Sometimes I get frustrated with. I do so many artistic hobbies, like writing, art, playing some music, just anything and everything. Even playing video games. I play video games a lot. And sometimes what helps is just to stop and walk away. But that doesn't mean stop and leave it there forever. You come back to it.

Guest [01:13:57]:
It is a level you can't beat. Well, give it a few months, maybe some years, you'll come back with a new perspective. You'll notice things you never did before you get out of that little rut that you were stuck in before.

Eldar [01:14:09]:
Correct. Right. So what you're saying is that a lot of artists get into this rut, and you don't want to create out of rut.

Guest [01:14:15]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:14:16]:
You want to create out of inspiration. Right. When you're inspired, and hopefully that what you create is good. My challenge is, a lot of times, I'm not sure those individuals that create that so called good is actually understand that they're not creating good at all.

Toliy [01:14:31]:
I'm not.

Eldar [01:14:32]:
I'm not sure if they thought it through.

Guest [01:14:33]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:14:34]:
And it lands on who? Little Mitchie, right. Little Tommy, little whoever, who now have grandiose ideas about the world and themselves and say that, I want to be this. I have no means. But everybody tells you, dream on.

Guest [01:14:53]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:14:53]:
If I. If I did it, you can do it. No, that's not true.

Toliy [01:14:58]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:14:58]:
And what happens dreaming? What happens is you gave birth to anger, frustration, disappointment, resentment, and everything else through art.

Guest [01:15:10]:
That's why it's, um. So I appreciate those, like, celebrities or, like, some actors and stuff like that, like, behind the scenes where they mentioned. I like all their struggles that they went through. Like, Jeanette McCurdy came out with a book, and I loved her in the show iCarly, and it was fantastic. But we always wondered, why didn't she go back to acting? But her book was like the tell all thing. Like it turns out she actually hated acting and being an actress. That was her mother's dream. That wasn't her dream.

Guest [01:15:36]:
She wanted to be a writer but her mom felt like that she couldn't amount to that. So she just did what her mom did or wanted her to do because she, her mom had cancer. She was like a guilt trip to do all those things and she was under her mom's thumb and she couldn't have any real control of herself.

Eldar [01:15:52]:
There you go.

Guest [01:15:53]:
So it's like, oh, you want to be an actor, great. But make sure it's because you want it to be. Because she also mentioned her co star Miranda Cosgrove. How she compared herself to her all the time was because Miranda actually wants to be an actress. So of course you're not going to hit like do a perfect scene like on the first 2nd try while she was doing it for like 810 13s because she didn't, she wasn't always constantly going through the motions.

Eldar [01:16:18]:
Yeah.

Guest [01:16:19]:
So like that's a good thing to think about. Like, oh, I want to do this, but like do you really want to do it? You know, like how the effort to it, she mentions it like how early she had to, like.

Eldar [01:16:27]:
And that's. We have those, those, those incorrect perceptions of life, you know, in ourselves, obviously with it within that. And then next thing you know, we're not accomplished and we didn't do it. And we have resentment, we have anger that's deeply built in. You don't even know where when it started. A lot of times when we sit down and talk about these things, we can't even trace back where it came from unless you have really good memory and really sit with it, you know, like your thing with competition. But you brought that back to like a memory. When you went somewhere, your dad took you, somewhere you lost, he couldn't explain it to you, you got really upset.

Eldar [01:16:59]:
It's like a tennis match, right? You said like that's crazy, but it's still in there within you. It lodged in the. You don't have that ability to kind of process it properly. Yeah. You know, because somebody else, right. Puts you on. So you can do this or this is the way to do it or whatever, you know, and this is what you should be doing. The next thing you know, you have a kid who potential to be broken for a very long time until you wake up as an adult and start uncovering all that b's.

Eldar [01:17:29]:
And now you have all this anger, so, yeah.

Guest [01:17:32]:
Find a way.

Eldar [01:17:33]:
Anger. Not as a tool. No.

Guest [01:17:35]:
No, not as a tool.

Eldar [01:17:35]:
No.

Tommy [01:17:37]:
The other day I had anger out of, like, having that first impression of the apartment that I was talking about.

Eldar [01:17:44]:
Let's talk about it.

Tommy [01:17:46]:
I was like you. I sensed the anger in the person, and I tried to root it out, in a way, sense that anger. But I, in a way, maybe took it personally.

Eldar [01:17:58]:
You know why?

Tommy [01:17:59]:
Because I was trying to control the situation.

Eldar [01:18:01]:
Okay. Okay. You wanted an outcome.

Tommy [01:18:07]:
I wanted an outcome, yeah. I wanted that apartment.

Eldar [01:18:10]:
Right.

Tommy [01:18:10]:
You know.

Eldar [01:18:11]:
Yeah.

Tommy [01:18:11]:
And I was pretty set on it, like price and everything.

Mike [01:18:14]:
Why'd you want that apartment?

Eldar [01:18:16]:
There you go. It goes. Mike's gonna dig it out of you.

Tommy [01:18:19]:
This matter.

Mike [01:18:20]:
I mean, I guess it does matter. You know why?

Tommy [01:18:23]:
I just put myself in.

Mike [01:18:24]:
You know why it matters?

Eldar [01:18:25]:
Am I gonna get.

Mike [01:18:26]:
Because the reason you wanted that apartment and anger, that's just the fire that's burning, but you don't see the sticks and stones and the fucking little bushels.

Eldar [01:18:35]:
That actually you've got last couple of weeks.

Mike [01:18:38]:
Yeah. Years. Yeah.

Eldar [01:18:40]:
Correct.

Mike [01:18:41]:
There's no smoke without fire. Whatever they say. Yeah, whatever that thing is with all the mirrors.

Eldar [01:18:45]:
If there's a smoke, there is no fires.

Mike [01:18:47]:
Yes. The reason that you value that apartment and that school is because you actually. Somebody told you on that idea, but you. You never, you know, you don't actually buy into it on your own. Don't worry, Tom, if you don't understand that.

Tommy [01:19:04]:
What do you mean by that? I don't buy into it on my own?

Mike [01:19:07]:
Somebody sold you a nice wrapper, and you bought it without a. Somebody told you the candy, but you opened it and you didn't even open. You said, okay, that's it. You dedicated your life towards something that you don't give a fuck about, potentially. And if you did give a fuck about it, then you will be successful. That's usually the gauge, right? If you care about something, not to succeed is a very. I don't know. I don't know how it's possible.

Eldar [01:19:41]:
It's not to succeed. It's not an option.

Mike [01:19:43]:
Yeah. If you love something, if you care about something, to not succeed is not an option.

Eldar [01:19:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:19:50]:
If you. If you have a dream and that dream is equals, these kind of steps or certain desires or stem from that dream or certain actions, then you must do it. If you're not doing it, that should tell you that. Yo, that shit, it does. It doesn't, um. It doesn't make sense. You can, if you know the truth, if you know the right thing to do, what works for you, to not do things by that, by that direction, by that way, it's so. See that you're doing it wrong.

Tommy [01:20:23]:
Let me set the scene. That day, I'm in the car with my mom, and we're driving down there, and, like, in my head, I knew I could be sort of clear in my head if I do this trip on my own. But I take it with my mom. My mom and me, we're sitting in the car, just, you know, like we're talking, and I get this feeling, like, you know, she's, like, putting pressure on me with what you're saying. And by the time I get there, I'm, like, kind of like I'm all tangled up. You know what I mean? Emotionally, I feel like because you didn't.

Eldar [01:20:56]:
Your mom was challenging you, asking you questions. Like Mike just said, you had no.

Mike [01:21:00]:
Good reasons, none of your own reasons that actually you came up with.

Eldar [01:21:05]:
Yeah. Yourself, you were not standing on any firm ground to be able to dispel any doubt that your mom had. Therefore, she installed doubt into you. Now, you all types of mangled. You still want to desire, but you're now not sure. You're doubting yourself. Your mama's doubting you.

Mike [01:21:20]:
Then that would become. She calls you a.

Eldar [01:21:22]:
Now the girl that you met.

Toliy [01:21:23]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:21:23]:
Calls you a loser.

Mike [01:21:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:21:25]:
You know what I mean? The next thing you know, you're. You're all types of messed up.

Mike [01:21:29]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:21:29]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:21:30]:
All because all this.

Eldar [01:21:30]:
Because Mike saying that you have not really examined what it is that you actually want to do, how you want to do it, and then pursue it with no doubts.

Mike [01:21:39]:
Yes.

Tommy [01:21:41]:
Yeah. And I.

Eldar [01:21:41]:
And then.

Tommy [01:21:42]:
And then I'm in this situation where I'm like, I guess I'm. I'm thinking about this. You know what I mean? I'm thinking about, let it not be that, you know? I guess you're praying. Um, yeah. So, like, how do I connect negative thinking with anger?

Mike [01:22:01]:
Negative thinking, do they.

Tommy [01:22:03]:
Does one come cause the other?

Eldar [01:22:04]:
Of course.

Mike [01:22:05]:
Yeah, of course. It's all connected.

Eldar [01:22:07]:
Negative. Negative thinking and stuff like that. It's the build up to then the blow up the fire. Right? Those are the little sticks that you put together, and that's the smoke, which.

Tommy [01:22:15]:
Is, like, why I want that under my control, you know?

Eldar [01:22:18]:
And that's where you lash out on to your mom, your dad.

Tommy [01:22:22]:
And actually, what I noticed was I just started.

Eldar [01:22:24]:
Yeah, Alex, you started just Jupiter jumper jabbing. Yeah.

Mike [01:22:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:22:30]:
You got your anger right there.

Toliy [01:22:34]:
I don't know.

Tommy [01:22:35]:
It was like. I think it's Steve Carell.

Eldar [01:22:46]:
Steve Carell.

Tommy [01:22:47]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:22:50]:
Bruce almighty. That one too. Yeah.

Toliy [01:22:52]:
Oh, yeah.

Tommy [01:22:53]:
I don't remember, but, uh.

Toliy [01:22:55]:
Or, or in the movie a liar. Liar. Right. Where he couldn't tell a lie.

Eldar [01:22:59]:
Could have.

Toliy [01:23:02]:
An out.

Eldar [01:23:03]:
That is true too. Yeah. So you just mumble, jumboing for the moment because your anger was. Just got the best of you. Yeah. Anger is just like an end result.

Tommy [01:23:12]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:23:13]:
Yeah. That's why trying to figure out that, um. I mean, it's. It's good.

Eldar [01:23:17]:
What you got, Mike? What you got?

Mike [01:23:20]:
I have. Well, you asked the question, when did we. On the bottom in red.

Eldar [01:23:25]:
Is anger always dependent on. Okay. When did we, as people, accept anger as a form of communication? So when did we, as people, accept anger as a form of communication? When we.

Mike [01:23:37]:
When we stood silent in front of. In the face of injustice.

Tommy [01:23:41]:
It's like a Bible study.

Mike [01:23:42]:
Yeah. When we stood silent in the face of injustice.

Eldar [01:23:47]:
On the face of injustice.

Mike [01:23:49]:
When that teacher or that movie sold you on the dream that you're gonna be a fucking baller or you're gonna be a fucking movie or an actor. Writer.

Eldar [01:23:57]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:23:58]:
You allowed that guy to put noodles on you? You allow that guy to lie? You lied to yourself.

Eldar [01:24:03]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:24:03]:
You did injustice to yourself.

Eldar [01:24:05]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:24:06]:
And then when you went out there to try this nonsense that somebody told.

Eldar [01:24:09]:
You, not equipped at all, they sent you out there, said, go do it. You know what I mean? You got this, Tom. You've got this. You are strong, independent woman.

Mike [01:24:17]:
They told you. They told you to go catch. Catch a whale. With a. With a pencil.

Eldar [01:24:22]:
With a pencil stick.

Tommy [01:24:23]:
Wait, what are you guys saying?

Eldar [01:24:27]:
Tom, they sent you out.

Mike [01:24:32]:
Whoever tried to do injustice to you.

Eldar [01:24:34]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:24:34]:
Whoever that is. It's your parents.

Eldar [01:24:36]:
Yes, because our celebrities.

Mike [01:24:41]:
Gerard Butler.

Toliy [01:24:42]:
Gerard Butler.

Tommy [01:24:43]:
Oh, I see.

Eldar [01:24:44]:
I see. Caprio. Who? Tom, what do you look up?

Mike [01:24:53]:
Fergie, you know, from the town.

Eldar [01:24:56]:
Somebody sold you this toothpick and said, go hunt the whale.

Mike [01:25:00]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:00]:
And you did. You still think a whale with a toothpick.

Tommy [01:25:03]:
That's what I felt like.

Mike [01:25:05]:
That's why you're angry with people.

Tommy [01:25:08]:
You know, I'm trying to, like, you know, I feel like I'm trying to.

Toliy [01:25:13]:
Is what's happening then, is that you have a toothpick and you're trying to take down a whale and the whales not being taken down. And you, on the inside, feel that you have this, like. Yeah, no. Crazy.

Mike [01:25:25]:
You have a hundred foot.

Toliy [01:25:27]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:25:28]:
Hunters sharpest world moment.

Toliy [01:25:31]:
No, no. But like, is that why anger is happening? Like no, no, but I'm saying that, like, if you actually have a toothpick, actually, and you're throwing it out at a whale.

Eldar [01:25:41]:
No, no, you're not throwing it. If you have an actual toothpick and you see the tooth, there's no way. You throwing out a way.

Toliy [01:25:46]:
No.

Eldar [01:25:48]:
You can add that to the cartoon.

Toliy [01:25:49]:
You'Re making, that the people who are angry, the people that are angry are throwing toothpicks at whales, thinking that they have giant whale gun. Right?

Mike [01:26:01]:
Yes.

Eldar [01:26:02]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:26:03]:
Because somebody told them that you can achieve this.

Eldar [01:26:06]:
They have dynamite, bro.

Mike [01:26:07]:
Yeah. Somebody sold them on a dream that's not their own. So that's the biggest dreaming.

Toliy [01:26:12]:
Bad.

Tommy [01:26:13]:
Well, well, we, I was just saying this to Alex way here. We were talking about, weren't we saying, um, that some people, uh, they, they want everything. And you mentioned this, elder. You specifically said that they work their.

Eldar [01:26:24]:
Way to get to the top.

Tommy [01:26:26]:
You said, I'm telling you the truth. You said that people sometimes work their way to get to the top and they realize when they get there, jim Carrey's not what they want.

Eldar [01:26:34]:
It ain't it.

Mike [01:26:35]:
Jim Carrey said this, but you're elder.

Eldar [01:26:37]:
Because of the wrong perception.

Guest [01:26:39]:
That's what I was like. There was a poem I was reading him. Richard Corey. Isabel is described as one of the townspeople who described like, oh, richard Corey, he's so great. He's got, like, the nice, like, clothes. He has money. He can, like, afford to eat. He can afford to, like, not work.

Guest [01:26:58]:
He's like, super rich. And we all want to be him. Like, he doesn't curse or anything. He's so well mannered. Like, all the ladies love him. Like, he is the guy. While everyone is, like, working from, like, dusk to dawn, they don't have enough food to, like, for meat. They just have, like, bread, like, eating crust.

Guest [01:27:16]:
And as they're all just, like, wishing to be this guy. Yeah, this guy in his home. Oh, no.

Mike [01:27:23]:
He's the one who's living rich over them, slaving away.

Guest [01:27:26]:
Him alone in his house, kills himself.

Eldar [01:27:30]:
What?

Guest [01:27:32]:
It's a poem. It says he puts a bullet in his head. Why? Everyone's thinking like, oh, I wish I could be this guy.

Mike [01:27:39]:
Exactly.

Guest [01:27:40]:
Yeah, because it seems nice at the top. But you don't.

Mike [01:27:43]:
Everything looks, everything looks good from the outside.

Eldar [01:27:45]:
Media is a, we don't put pictures of our face with pimples on. Nobody has pimples on their pictures, right? We all have pimples. They all come out once in a while. We don't put those pictures out. Why is that not us?

Guest [01:28:00]:
You're trying to present like a better, more idealistic.

Eldar [01:28:03]:
We always put a better side. But the truth of the matter is, that's not the truth.

Guest [01:28:07]:
Yeah, yeah.

Eldar [01:28:07]:
So same thing with this Richard whatever, Cory. Cory guy. Yeah, the gig is up. Yeah, Tom, the gig is up. You're living somebody else's dream, Tom.

Mike [01:28:17]:
Yeah.

Guest [01:28:18]:
Living in a warped reality.

Mike [01:28:20]:
Warped.

Eldar [01:28:22]:
Yeah, you're living in some warped. Not even reality. Not even reality. It's just something warped.

Tommy [01:28:27]:
Yeah, I forgot the point that I was gonna make.

Eldar [01:28:29]:
Of course you did. In these types of scenarios, you will always forget what you're trying to make, because it makes no sense. Correct or no.

Guest [01:28:41]:
Debatable all day.

Mike [01:28:45]:
Got her?

Eldar [01:28:46]:
Got her. Gotta be careful what we say now. I was gonna like. Yo, cancel these guys. They're bad. Yeah, it's okay, Tom. Listen, you know what they say.

Tommy [01:29:03]:
I. I was gonna make. I felt like I was gonna make a good point. I forgot what it was. It had to do with this.

Eldar [01:29:08]:
It had to do. I hope you. Tom. Yeah. Drop by drop kills the cop one day, that toothpick will sting that whale. Enough folks. Yeah, enough folks who get through it.

Mike [01:29:22]:
This is true, Tom.

Eldar [01:29:23]:
And he'll turn around, like, get the.

Toliy [01:29:25]:
Hell out of here. Tom.

Guest [01:29:27]:
Look at the mighty ants. Like the carpenter ants, specifically. They can. They're so tiny. But give them enough time, they'll clear a whole clearing.

Eldar [01:29:36]:
Correct. Together, though, right?

Guest [01:29:38]:
Yeah, all together.

Eldar [01:29:39]:
That's also a thing. If you alone, like a lone wolf.

Mike [01:29:44]:
Like, the guy thinks he's too good.

Eldar [01:29:46]:
Too good for everybody. Yeah. But one day, you learn. You might be. It might be next life.

Mike [01:29:53]:
Well, he got this team thing esteeming the wrong people.

Eldar [01:29:57]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:29:59]:
You know, celebrities.

Eldar [01:30:00]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:30:01]:
And these artists. But they don't have it figured out.

Eldar [01:30:06]:
Just like Richard Crawley is not gonna pay you rent.

Guest [01:30:08]:
No.

Mike [01:30:11]:
But Dennis rocks.

Eldar [01:30:13]:
But Dennis rocks just might.

Mike [01:30:14]:
Just might.

Eldar [01:30:15]:
They just might.

Mike [01:30:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:30:16]:
One day when we get big, we're gonna have to cut you a check. Okay. You know what I mean? Just send you a check. You remember? Yeah, yeah, yeah. For contribution.

Mike [01:30:27]:
That's why times been coming around for the past few weeks now.

Eldar [01:30:30]:
I understand.

Mike [01:30:32]:
He never came four times times in a row to anything.

Eldar [01:30:34]:
Yes. Tom, what the hell is happening? Do you have fever? Are you sick? Are you ill?

Mike [01:30:39]:
Something's going on. Yeah, something's going on.

Eldar [01:30:40]:
You feeling something?

Mike [01:30:41]:
His parents told him, like, yo, yeah.

Eldar [01:30:43]:
Let'S know, guys, something good. You smell money, right?

Tommy [01:30:46]:
Creative stuff.

Eldar [01:30:47]:
It's rewarding 100% when you start thinking. That's exact. Yeah. You will be creative. More creative. 100%. You will have so many more ideas, and they're gonna be yours. They're not gonna be somebody else's.

Eldar [01:30:59]:
They're yours. You understand, Richard? Carly's not gonna, you know, give you no ideas. As much as you esteem and put him up in a pedestal. He.

Toliy [01:31:10]:
Would you be willing to buy out the word creative from Tom's life?

Eldar [01:31:14]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:31:17]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:31:18]:
You would?

Eldar [01:31:18]:
Yeah, I would. I would.

Toliy [01:31:19]:
You. You'd pay a sum for him to never be able to use that word.

Eldar [01:31:22]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:31:23]:
Like, you own that word.

Eldar [01:31:24]:
Correct. And he has a bracelet. Every time he uses it, he gets zapped.

Tommy [01:31:29]:
Oh, I would use a word. I would use a made up word. I just coined it a term, didn't I?

Guest [01:31:33]:
Oh, my gosh.

Tommy [01:31:33]:
There's american underdog point.

Eldar [01:31:37]:
Alp. Yeah.

Tommy [01:31:41]:
American underdog point.

Eldar [01:31:43]:
What is that? What's that?

Tommy [01:31:45]:
That's a revolutionary term, my dude.

Eldar [01:31:47]:
Yeah, but explain it to me. What is it? Thumb. That's. This is where you create this kind of shit.

Tommy [01:31:56]:
This is a dictatorship. That's me. That's what.

Eldar [01:31:58]:
Okay, fine.

Tommy [01:32:02]:
No, I mean, I think that you're gonna find some way of expressing what's. What's right, even through anger. Even through anger. And I think, like, anger might be used as a tool for hatred, might be used as a tool for shame.

Mike [01:32:17]:
All of those things like anger and whatever, all the bad things, negative things, like Alex was saying, they all are. In the end, they could be good, whether this life or the next, they could be good because they lead you to the source of the actual problem. So, unfortunately, it's a little bit primitive and you would prefer to pick things up on the front end. Right. But if you don't choose to kind of, like, do that, then anger will, or whatever. I don't know, jealousy. Right. Trust.

Mike [01:32:51]:
All these negative things, they will eventually, this life or the next, or maybe a couple more, they will say, make you think, yo, wait. What the fuck is happening here? Why am I so angry? Why am I so jealous?

Eldar [01:33:04]:
Why?

Mike [01:33:04]:
I don't trust. So it's a. It's a good thing, I guess, right?

Eldar [01:33:10]:
Is anger embarrassing in front of reason when it's in front of reason?

Tommy [01:33:16]:
Absolutely.

Eldar [01:33:18]:
Absolutely.

Guest [01:33:19]:
I don't think so.

Tommy [01:33:20]:
Yeah. Yeah, I would say yes.

Eldar [01:33:22]:
Why not? Hold on. I was. I knew it was a kind of rhetorical thing that I'm definitely leaning towards it. Yes. Tell me. No. Why not?

Mike [01:33:29]:
She's just trying to.

Eldar [01:33:30]:
Anger.

Guest [01:33:31]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:33:32]:
Right. Embarrassing when it's standing the trial of reason.

Guest [01:33:38]:
No, I say from, like, personal experiences.

Eldar [01:33:43]:
Okay.

Guest [01:33:43]:
I use a lot of reason for just my day to day life.

Eldar [01:33:47]:
Can you give us an example so we know, um, context?

Mike [01:33:50]:
Just to make sure that you actually.

Eldar [01:33:51]:
This guy, this can be, if you're doing this in the metro, if you're doing this in the metaverse, that's acceptable.

Guest [01:33:57]:
Okay. Like, a personal story I always complain about at home. It's my little sister. She's, she's tired of me hearing about it. Um, I always get upset with my, with my parents for how they put away the dishes in the dish rack.

Eldar [01:34:10]:
Cool.

Guest [01:34:11]:
And it annoys me because with their age, they should know to do it properly.

Eldar [01:34:17]:
First of all, explain to us what that means. Okay, so what is proper way of putting the dishes in the dishes in the dish rack?

Guest [01:34:23]:
So, like, cups will be, like, in the center, and, like, plates will be, like, on top of, like, the way they set it up. It's like playing jenga with, like, the plates and the cups and everything.

Eldar [01:34:38]:
Isn't there little slots?

Guest [01:34:39]:
Exactly.

Eldar [01:34:40]:
So just put it in there.

Guest [01:34:41]:
Yeah. Which is what annoys me.

Eldar [01:34:43]:
And they don't do this.

Guest [01:34:44]:
No, like, reasonably. And with their age too, you think, like, oh, you've done this so million times, it would be like, like a second, like, muscle memory. Like, yeah, second nature. Like, you should just already have that, like, set up. Like, how is it, like, devolving in a way?

Eldar [01:34:57]:
Okay.

Guest [01:34:57]:
Like, it looks like a kindergartner is, like, putting these dishes away. And not only that, my dad's a bit, like, heavy handed. So, like, every other week or so.

Eldar [01:35:07]:
Something'S breaking, chipping and stuff.

Guest [01:35:09]:
Oh, no. Like, straight up, like, breaking. Like, we've lost so many dishes.

Eldar [01:35:12]:
Wow.

Guest [01:35:13]:
And, like, you would think you'd realize, hey, maybe there's a problem here, that this keeps happening.

Eldar [01:35:18]:
Okay.

Guest [01:35:20]:
And one of the things is, like, the things aren't, like, stuck up, like, placed in properly. Even when I'm trying to carefully, like, take something out or, like, rearrange it. Yeah. I've almost lost so many things. I always have to, like, personally hand wash my stuff and then put it away, like, like, in the cabinet someplace, like, somewhere high, so, like, no one can accidentally break it. And with those reasons, I get very upset with it. Like, I'll just start, like, ranting and complaining as I'm, like, cleaning up the dishes.

Eldar [01:35:47]:
And, like, what do you say? Can you give us a little thing, like, a preview?

Guest [01:35:49]:
Oh, I'm just like, oh, my gosh, like, these people. Like, you think, you think, you think I just keep going, like, yeah, like, like, you know how old they're like, what are they? Am I the adult? Am I the parent? Like, isn't supposed to be the other way around. And then my little sister just, like, walks away.

Eldar [01:36:04]:
Your older sister?

Guest [01:36:04]:
My younger sister.

Eldar [01:36:06]:
Okay.

Guest [01:36:06]:
Yeah. And because she's here to, like, a thousand times that. And, like, the way the dishes are being clean nowadays, it's, like, half washed. Like, there's still stuff, like, caked onto it. And they're putting it in the cabinet, and I'm taking it out, and they're like, this is dirty. Who put this away? Who looked at this and thought, yeah, this is clean.

Eldar [01:36:22]:
Put it away. Quality checked it.

Guest [01:36:24]:
Yeah. Like, what is this? Like, this is. This is like a. Like a restaurant. We would have been, like, like, closed down for business, like, forever. So, like, for that, I wouldn't say because, like, it's, like, a valid reason to not to say me complaining about it. And so. And so, like, I'm not saying I'm in the right for just, like, ranting about it.

Eldar [01:36:43]:
Yeah.

Guest [01:36:44]:
I'm just saying in the face of that, because there is a reason why I'm this angry about this, because it's.

Eldar [01:36:49]:
Just like, okay, so give me that now. Okay. I get it. Why you angry. And I think your anger is justified 100%. However, like, give me the reasons why your parents actually do this.

Guest [01:37:00]:
I just think they're just not paying attention. Cause I watched them sometimes.

Eldar [01:37:04]:
Why?

Guest [01:37:05]:
Well, I know with my dad, for sure.

Eldar [01:37:07]:
Okay. What is it?

Guest [01:37:08]:
He's tired.

Eldar [01:37:08]:
Okay.

Guest [01:37:09]:
He works long hours.

Eldar [01:37:10]:
Boom.

Guest [01:37:11]:
So I don't blame him anymore.

Eldar [01:37:13]:
Okay.

Guest [01:37:13]:
It's more my mom, because.

Eldar [01:37:16]:
What's up with your mom?

Guest [01:37:17]:
Well, it's a lot of things because she's. She's the more clean one in the family. In the family household. She's a clean one. Always, like, obsessively cleaning and straightening everything.

Eldar [01:37:27]:
Okay.

Guest [01:37:27]:
And over the years, she's just, like, gotten, like, messier and messier.

Eldar [01:37:30]:
Why?

Guest [01:37:32]:
We don't know why.

Eldar [01:37:33]:
Okay.

Guest [01:37:34]:
And that's the frustrating part.

Eldar [01:37:35]:
Okay.

Guest [01:37:35]:
Not knowing why.

Eldar [01:37:36]:
Not knowing why. But as soon as you find out why. As soon as you find out why, I think what happens when you actually find out why? Let's just say, take a hypothetical. Because your mom gets getting older, she's developing bad memory. Because she has bad memory, she's no longer remembering to do it this way. Okay. You actually find out that this is an actual medical condition with people that are getting older. Let's just say.

Eldar [01:38:01]:
Right? And now you have an actual reason. If you have the actual reasons now, as to why this is happening in the first place. And you continue to get. To get angry, for example. Right? And I'm sitting in the room now, right? And we. You both know that this information that your mom is doing this, your dad is doing this because they have really good reasons as to why they're doing it. They're old and they're suffering a medical condition, and you're still getting angry, and I'm observing you. Would you not say that you're more likely to be embarrassed now?

Guest [01:38:31]:
No.

Eldar [01:38:32]:
Really? Okay. Couldn't do it. Why not, though? Me and you both agreed we both know the reasons, and now you. Right. Knowing those reasons, I know you know those reasons. I'm sitting there, right? And I'm like, Alex, what's up? Now you're telling me you have a condition?

Guest [01:38:55]:
In a way, yeah.

Eldar [01:38:58]:
Right. If you don't now say, elder, I don't have a condition.

Guest [01:39:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:39:03]:
So then what is it? The next time you do it? Right. Sooner or later, I think it'll get to a point where you might get a little bit embarrassed because you're doing it right in front of me, another individual who actually knows not to get angry about this, because we found out the reasons why your parents are doing what they're doing. Right. So you no longer should be subjected to the same anger or frustration. But you're saying, it's almost like, hey. It's like I'm choosing to have this automatic response just because or haven't unlearned.

Guest [01:39:32]:
That response after learning those reasons.

Eldar [01:39:36]:
Okay, then tell me how that bridges the gap. When do you unlearn?

Guest [01:39:41]:
When you recognize it or, like, having an outside opinion?

Eldar [01:39:44]:
Well, we just did, right? Yeah, I told you. We already sat down with the doctor. The doctor told you? Told me. And we both agreed. Hey, your mom's doing this now, you know. Okay, one time, right. But when do you actually switch over? Switch over and say, okay, cool. There's no longer point of me getting angry here because I actually know the real reasons as to why this is happening.

Eldar [01:40:00]:
When does that switch turn on?

Guest [01:40:03]:
Probably, like, the second time.

Eldar [01:40:05]:
All right.

Guest [01:40:05]:
Afterwards, yeah, I did it. And then you do it again. You're like, wait a minute.

Eldar [01:40:10]:
There you go. You're a quick learner.

Toliy [01:40:13]:
People don't yell at the library.

Eldar [01:40:15]:
People don't yell at the library.

Toliy [01:40:19]:
Wow.

Mike [01:40:20]:
Army doesn't coin, but they do have.

Eldar [01:40:23]:
Barnes and t shirt. Would you like that t shirt?

Guest [01:40:25]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:40:26]:
People don't yell at the library. You know the reason why he said it?

Guest [01:40:30]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:40:33]:
It's embarrassing. You get up, you start yelling. Everybody's looking at you like, yo. What?

Toliy [01:40:47]:
Yeah, you like Tommy?

Eldar [01:40:49]:
Like, yeah, you either. You either get embarrassed because you're a normal human being. Wait a second. My bad. I fucked up. You know what I mean? I was listening to something, to something loud, and I got carried away. I thought I was at home or you playing crazy. If you don't get embarrassed, you're crazy.

Mike [01:41:04]:
Or playing crazy, then you acting. Well, yeah, like you said, I can. Sometimes you gotta act a little bit.

Eldar [01:41:17]:
I'm writing down the t shirt idea. People don't yell at the library.

Toliy [01:41:22]:
They don't.

Eldar [01:41:26]:
So the challenge here is, you see that sooner or later, right, your own reason. I don't have to be in that room anymore to police you, to know the same reasons as to why your parents do what they do. You're now policing yourself, right? So that voice of reason is now installed in you, and hopefully, right, holds you accountable. So next time this happens or third time, fourth time, fifth time, sooner or later, you're gonna be like, wait a second. I know better. What's the matter with me? You know what I mean?

Guest [01:41:52]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:41:53]:
So the voice, you know, that's why. That's why I posed that question that, does anger get embarrassed? A voice of reason. So what do you think? Yes or no?

Guest [01:42:07]:
Still think no?

Eldar [01:42:08]:
Fine.

Guest [01:42:09]:
Because you think about it in a way. I think in so many different ways. Say, like, you're, um. Let's go, old timey. You're running an orphanage, and the city just won't help you. And, like, this one guy who's, like, like, in charge, think of it like. Like a scrooge type of guy, and, like, he's just making it worse and, like, he has no compassion. And you would start yelling and get upset and, like, in the middle of the street yelling at this guy, what a horrible person he is gonna send all these poor children out onto the streets.

Guest [01:42:39]:
They already have no home. You give them, like, doubly no home. All the trauma you're gonna do, which would get, like, a crowd showing up, but there I would feel like it's more. Well, not really embarrassing. More embarrassing for the guy that you're yelling at, but because you're being reasonable, explaining, like, why x, y, and z, why he's a horrible person and everything, which you get the people around, like, oh, wow, guy has been doing this. Like, that's terrible, which might help your situation better, which is like a call for help, or at least. Or, like, alerting that there is a situation here that's going wrong. And.

Eldar [01:43:17]:
Fine.

Guest [01:43:18]:
Not to say it can't be embarrassing, I'm just saying personally for me, I don't find it.

Eldar [01:43:22]:
The thing is, any example that you bring up, I could tell you that as a reasonable person, you can track down as to why the person is acting that way. And sooner or later you'll find out enough reasons to say, like your anger is not justified anymore towards this because you know what's actually going on. Right. So then you have to. Now you have to use a different form of communication, right. Aside from anger. Because anger is a very primitive one, as we agreed, and doesn't make us feel good. Right.

Eldar [01:43:47]:
So we have to use something like compassion. Right. Or a reasonable dialogue. Right. In order to get to better standing ground that we're both happy with, you know? Sure, if some people can justify your anger and also kind of rile you up and say, yeah, she's angry for the right reason. Right. And they won't see you as embarrassment. Right.

Eldar [01:44:10]:
I'm not sure if those people are also a voice of reason. Just because a hundred people side with you doesn't mean they're also right. Hey, mom mentality, you know what I mean? We're like. Even though, you know, it's clear. Clear that this guy's an asshole, guys. You know what I mean? Yeah, right. But like, again, the Jesus thing, right?

Toliy [01:44:30]:
Hey, yeah. It's proven to me more and more that like anger only exists when there's information, like missing.

Eldar [01:44:38]:
Well, it's not just only information missing, it's the ability to interpret information. Yeah, yeah, I think number one is information. Sure. But then got the information how you can interpret it, you have.

Toliy [01:44:51]:
Yeah, cuz because I consider the person was not able to interpret information. He's still in the. In the, like he's at that moment missing information.

Eldar [01:44:58]:
Well, yes.

Toliy [01:44:59]:
Right?

Eldar [01:45:00]:
Yes, correct, correct. And that's what the only time you can give them still excuse. Because then you could play crazy, right. That they don't get it. But Alex, if you do get it now, you understand that you. There is a reason behind why your.

Toliy [01:45:11]:
Parents are doing this, is why people being angry.

Eldar [01:45:14]:
Yeah, I think so too. And if you are, sooner or later you start developing certain level of embarrassment. Almost like, why is this happening to me? Well, yeah, yeah.

Toliy [01:45:23]:
Even if you don't develop the embarrassment, like you'll eventually, like if you're able to identify those things, you're gonna eventually.

Eldar [01:45:29]:
Be like, wait, why am I doing this stuff?

Toliy [01:45:31]:
Doesn't make sense.

Eldar [01:45:32]:
Yeah, yeah. Right, yeah, correct. I don't think your mom and dad are doing this on purpose, by the way.

Guest [01:45:37]:
Yeah, I don't think so.

Eldar [01:45:38]:
All right, cool. I don't think they're like, all right, cool. Today we're gonna piss off Alex.

Toliy [01:45:44]:
And figure out.

Eldar [01:45:45]:
Let's attack team and figure out how to fuck you over. No, I don't think they're doing that. Right. So hopefully, you know, you practice some self control and fire, or at least be inquisitive enough to find out what's actually happening. A lot of times, you probably don't have enough time, right? You're like, yo, let me just wash these dishes and put them away properly or whatever, or you don't see them doing it. Right. You don't take the time to sit down, actually find out what's actually going on. But if you do, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised that your anger is, a lot of times, is not justified.

Guest [01:46:17]:
I never said they were.

Eldar [01:46:18]:
Yeah. You know what I mean? I think. But a lot of times, we do justify our anger. We're very good at that. I think Mike mentioned that, that sometimes, you know, we have plenty of reasons as to why we should.

Toliy [01:46:29]:
I don't even think that. I think that if you're angry with something, I think you need to justify.

Eldar [01:46:34]:
Like, oh, wow, okay.

Toliy [01:46:36]:
I don't know if there's a way that. Yeah, I don't know if there's a way that you can, like. Like, you need a good. Like, whether the reason is actually a good reason. Like, for yourself, you need, like, a reason, and that reason makes very much sense to you, especially if you get really angry.

Eldar [01:46:53]:
Why? Why do you need a really good reason to be angry?

Toliy [01:46:59]:
To justify why.

Eldar [01:47:00]:
You're a fucking idiot being a piece of shit. Yeah, this is true. Yeah, I think so.

Guest [01:47:07]:
Yeah, I feel that as well. Well, I feel like if you very.

Eldar [01:47:10]:
Carefully guess if you agree to this, you don't fuck your argument on the back end.

Guest [01:47:16]:
The whole. Cause you're stupid. That kind of thing.

Eldar [01:47:19]:
Yeah.

Guest [01:47:20]:
If you want to stay angry, you're gonna have to, like, really justify.

Toliy [01:47:23]:
Yeah, anger needs the wood just to be lit.

Guest [01:47:27]:
If you want to stay in that place.

Eldar [01:47:28]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:47:29]:
Like, let me pay you hourly every, like, every day. Let's pay Tom hourly every day to be really angry. Like, you know how hard that's gonna be to. Yeah, to, like, sustain.

Eldar [01:47:40]:
Yeah.

Toliy [01:47:40]:
Right? Like, you need, like, the fire, like. Like. I mean. I mean, like, you need, like, the wood to burn that anger. Fire.

Eldar [01:47:47]:
What if I told you that he fucked himself so much that it'll be very easy actually, yeah. I hope not, Tom. I hope you not that angry. The world did fuck you, though. Yeah. I mean, you fucked the world, and the world fucked you.

Tommy [01:48:04]:
Yeah, but see, that's the thing I was gonna say. There's this advice that I've read a couple of times about writing, and that's just sit your ass down in the chair and. And really do it. And then a lot of us say, okay, well, I don't want to be. You know, I think the convention is like, well, why the fuck would I want to write? What am I gonna write? Some people don't like writing.

Toliy [01:48:24]:
That's just how it is.

Tommy [01:48:25]:
And some people don't want to be writers, and they're not cut out for it, and they'll probably never be good. Great. Let's say a lot of people, I would say, aren't very good writers. But that advice of just sit your ass down in the chair, it really is like a challenge of going up against the world and all those forces and saying, okay, on this blank canvas, I'm now going to put something, you.

Eldar [01:48:50]:
Know, like a rebel. You're gonna rebel.

Tommy [01:48:55]:
So, like, you know, I don't think we start work angrily, but I think we might say, okay, I'm gonna turn this anger on its head right now. I'm gonna. I'm gonna oppose the anger. I'm going to argue against it onto the page. You see that? That works in my mind. You know? That actually works in my mind.

Eldar [01:49:18]:
How's it been working for you, though?

Tommy [01:49:20]:
Pretty good. Like, one way of dealing with anger, I don't know, is, like. I guess it's just sort of saying, let's say I get angry when I see the house a mess or something like that. Or I get angry when I feel, like, overwhelmed. Just identifying what makes me angry in that moment and maybe listing it or explaining to myself, like, through a self dialogue or something, that this. This is this way. Because I feel this way, and I'm a person who likes things in a particular way, and that just makes it known. That makes it realized, I guess.

Eldar [01:50:02]:
So you're saying that you missed the episode about self love?

Tommy [01:50:07]:
I think so.

Eldar [01:50:08]:
I was.

Tommy [01:50:08]:
Nothing.

Eldar [01:50:10]:
Yeah. That wasn't a question. Based on what you said. Yeah. You know, it's all right, Tom. Now, you know your base. You're a very angry person, and you don't know what to do about it. But because you came here today, now you don't.

Eldar [01:50:25]:
Now you do.

Tommy [01:50:26]:
I think. I think so.

Eldar [01:50:28]:
I mean, if you don't, we can still expand on it.

Tommy [01:50:30]:
I'm not, I'm not someone who easily gets angry. Let's say I don't think I'm someone who easily, I don't think I ever have been someone who easily.

Eldar [01:50:37]:
But I will say this, we should.

Mike [01:50:39]:
Transition to the next.

Tommy [01:50:41]:
I'm quite easy. I'm quite easily somebody who says things and doesn't follow through, who never really says things. See what I'm saying? Like I'm a creative who has been blocked and haven't really like confronted the anger or anything or confronted my doubts or anything like that. So I've never really gone anywhere and beautiful and it's all pure anger really. Just fucking streaming out of there.

Eldar [01:51:10]:
It's like Alex said, it's part of being a human and enjoy your anger, bro. Like a loser. No, I'm sorry, cut that one out.

Guest [01:51:29]:
Like a loser. Like that's a bit.

Eldar [01:51:32]:
Alright, fine. The problem is I have. He's trying to get somewhere.

Guest [01:51:35]:
I know, but I'm fine.

Eldar [01:51:36]:
He wants to get somewhere and then he's like being held back by hostage by this anger stuff, you know what I mean? So I'm like, yo, hurry up and do it.

Guest [01:51:42]:
Yeah, but it implies that the game's end. It's not the end, it's the beginning. You're still in your playtime, bro.

Toliy [01:51:53]:
Yeah, but it's okay to just be an angry loser. Like, is it okay to label as like, this is what's happening.

Eldar [01:52:02]:
Yes. The thing is, the way she used, see how I used loser wasn't the way, like in a gaming world, loser, she's like, game didn't end yet. It's just true. I agree with her. The game did not end here. We're using loser in that sense. I was using loser like a derogative, you know, like, are you a loser? You know what I mean? Yeah, but yeah, I think it is okay to be angry. Loser will be fine if that's your choice.

Eldar [01:52:24]:
You know what I mean? If that's what you still want to do, then, then be it. I got no problem with that.

Guest [01:52:30]:
That's why I say focus on the journey, not the destination.

Eldar [01:52:32]:
This is true too.

Guest [01:52:34]:
Once you're at the top, you might be like Richard Corey. Oh God. It's not. Not that great up here.

Toliy [01:52:39]:
Yeah, that's why you should always set up to paint and never paint.

Eldar [01:52:42]:
This is correct. You never fail, you always win. Yeah, Mike, sorry, you were gonna say something? Next question.

Mike [01:52:48]:
Yeah, no, I think this was a good transition to Tommy's thing.

Eldar [01:52:51]:
What are he.

Mike [01:52:51]:
When he said, oh, I'm not angry.

Eldar [01:52:53]:
Yeah.

Mike [01:52:53]:
And he confirmed that he's very angry afterwards. He confirmed it before. Before that.

Eldar [01:52:58]:
Well, Tom has a hard time in the beginning to be straight.

Toliy [01:53:00]:
Straight, yeah.

Eldar [01:53:01]:
Then he opens up and realizes the safe space, and then he's being blunt and honest, which is a very good thing.

Mike [01:53:06]:
That's why they question.

Toliy [01:53:07]:
I asked you the other day if.

Tommy [01:53:09]:
You remember me ever really being a hothead. And I think. I think while it wasn't really. I kind of was when I first.

Eldar [01:53:19]:
Not that I remember you, not maybe beforehand. I heard of those stories from your other old friends, but when we met, you were okay.

Tommy [01:53:27]:
There's a difference. There are people who really blow up in anger. And like you said, there's. But, yeah, that was definitely. I was, like, on that side of keeping things inside because, you know, wow. I mean, I've gotta unpack it. But, you know, it was. It was.

Tommy [01:53:44]:
It was shame, really. A shame at, like, the life that I lived. And I still talk about that today. I still say I didn't want to live that way before. So I know I want to put that behind me. And that's probably one of the most difficult things, I guess, is breaking through, being in a place where you're not comfortable, you're not happy with your scenario. And I don't know, you see this a lot, right? Like, we see people who are just angry with life. And like you said, like, I found that kind of.

Tommy [01:54:13]:
That alerted me a little bit when you said, I, um. Anger is just a part of life because you typically say things like this, Alex. You're like, oh, they just happen. That's just. You got to deal with it. You got to put up with it. And this is part of the system, and that's all that is, right?

Guest [01:54:26]:
Oh, well, not really part of the system. It's more of, like.

Tommy [01:54:29]:
I mean, that's kind of why she's.

Eldar [01:54:30]:
Being lazy in that moment. She doesn't want to think about it. She gave you a cop out answer. But as shown, she says she thinks and she can think, and she can reason through it. You know what I mean? She just doesn't want to deal with your nonsense.

Guest [01:54:43]:
Sometimes it is a combat answer, but, yeah, like, sometimes it is what it is, but then other moments, it's just like, well, yes, what it is in the moment, but it's not gonna be like this forever. I mean, it's not always sunshine. Sometimes it rains. Sometimes it snows. Sometimes it's rainbows. Sometimes right now it's nighttime, and sometimes there's stars. And sometimes.

Eldar [01:55:03]:
And sometimes there's what?

Guest [01:55:05]:
Stars.

Eldar [01:55:06]:
Stars.

Guest [01:55:06]:
Stars. And then sometimes there. There aren't stars.

Toliy [01:55:09]:
Creates the weather.

Guest [01:55:11]:
Um, well, we can go with the scientific point of view.

Toliy [01:55:16]:
In the example that the jera.

Guest [01:55:18]:
Oh, the example who creates the weather.

Eldar [01:55:21]:
Well, she's an animator, and she creates video games. She does.

Guest [01:55:23]:
Yes, I know.

Toliy [01:55:24]:
The example that she's providing was the weather, like, crazy.

Guest [01:55:29]:
It would be dependent on the situation, I would say, like, in one area, like your home life, it could be all clouds, and it could be that you create your own clouds while everyone else is trying to make.

Toliy [01:55:44]:
How does somebody else create clouds for you?

Eldar [01:55:46]:
Someone else, by not washing the dishes.

Guest [01:55:48]:
Properly, obviously, or just being very toxic, very negative. You're not ever going to amount to anything. Can you be so and so, blah, blah, blah, just undermining you constantly? That can create some clouds.

Toliy [01:56:05]:
What was the question that was posed on that one podcast? I think it was two podcasts.

Mike [01:56:09]:
Why would you allow somebody else to control your happiness?

Eldar [01:56:13]:
Yeah. Why would you allow someone else to create your happiness in your outcome? Why would you allow.

Guest [01:56:21]:
I feel like that would. I don't think you intentionally do that.

Eldar [01:56:25]:
I agree with that. I think nobody here who's thinking right now would agree that they do this, like, on purpose or want to do this. However, we always constantly do. Right. We give away our own power, our own creative that we have, and our own magic to somebody else to cloud your weather.

Guest [01:56:43]:
I was. I'm always thinking about that because I'm. Because socially, like, scientifically, humans are social creatures. Like, we rely on, like, feedback, like, physical feedback, to know, like, oh, is this okay? Is this not okay?

Eldar [01:56:58]:
Yeah.

Guest [01:56:59]:
And I thought that's probably the reason why people inadvertently give, like, that power to other people 100%, just like.

Eldar [01:57:04]:
But then you're. What you're. What you're saying is you're. You looking for acceptance. You're looking for some kind of connection, approval. Right. From the external. Yeah, external.

Eldar [01:57:15]:
Right. Because you're so. I'm a social creature, therefore I'm gonna see whether or not they're okay with my behavior. They're okay with this, you know? And if they're not, then you're down.

Guest [01:57:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:57:24]:
You know? And that's. I think. I mean, it's a tough way to live.

Guest [01:57:28]:
Yeah. Just why once, right now is very, like, oh, but you can make your own sunshine.

Eldar [01:57:33]:
Like, look, I mean, I believe that. Yeah. You believe that?

Tommy [01:57:36]:
Yeah, I think so. I think you can do that. I'm the man.

Eldar [01:57:43]:
Well, we know that. That's why I'm gonna keep saying the opposite.

Tommy [01:57:48]:
And Mike's like, I can't believe I'm going to Philly with this guy.

Eldar [01:57:51]:
Yeah. So, yeah, so you create the weather.

Guest [01:57:56]:
Yeah, you can create the weather. You can let other people create the.

Eldar [01:57:59]:
Weather the way you made the example. That's why you had a problem with it.

Guest [01:58:02]:
Yeah.

Eldar [01:58:03]:
He's saying that almost like you're putting it to somebody else. Right. Some it's on, some it's on someone else. Sure. Maybe we don't create this weather because Mister God did it for us. Right. This design. Right.

Eldar [01:58:14]:
But the internal weather we create, we should be in charge of that. But the way you were describing, it's like, hey, one day is good, one day bad.

Toliy [01:58:20]:
Yeah, but even with that, so, like, don't. Don't they say, like, how we, like humans as a whole, treat the environment? Like, doesn't it have also to do with the type of weather that we.

Eldar [01:58:30]:
Distrust, you know, receive?

Toliy [01:58:32]:
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just feel like. And not that I don't let eternals not dictate my happiness.

Eldar [01:58:41]:
Yeah, they do. Yeah. No, no, you're not a bad person here. We're not singling you out of. We all have these problems.

Toliy [01:58:46]:
Yes, we all have.

Eldar [01:58:47]:
But I told you, on Fridays at 530, we're trying to solve them, and that's why this is so cool and feels good. So.

Toliy [01:58:53]:
Yeah, yeah. Like. But the.

Eldar [01:58:55]:
I don't think she was.

Toliy [01:58:56]:
The reality is that would be best to obviously control your weather and your, like, you were the, like. I would say that any example anyone brings up, like, where they're unhappy with something and they feel that it's the, like, the external. I think that in all those scenarios, if you bring up any of those examples, I think it still always ties to the internal and, like, you may not have say as to how your parents, like, put away the dishes or, like, maybe not have the reasons as to why, but you do have, I think, the ability to, like, to, like, examine what's happening and determine how you're going to react to it and determine how youre a going to feel about it. And I think that you can use logic and reason to, like.

Mike [01:59:46]:
Right.

Toliy [01:59:46]:
Not things go deeper, not have the way that, like, how they put away dishes, for example, affect your happiness.

Tommy [01:59:54]:
Right.

Guest [01:59:54]:
Yeah, I agree.

Eldar [01:59:56]:
Why did you attach yourself to the dishes in the first place?

Tommy [01:59:58]:
This used to bother me a lot back in the day. This stuff used to bother me a lot. Like, I would have come into, like, it still bothers me.

Eldar [02:00:08]:
Thank you, Tommy.

Tommy [02:00:09]:
Fucking bastard.

Eldar [02:00:13]:
Come on. Tommy?

Tommy [02:00:14]:
Yeah. I mean, yeah. Some undue influence really, really bothers me, and I don't think I. I'll say I came around to an idea that I can be more. I can be more self determined, and I. That, to me, means. It means that it's.

Toliy [02:00:34]:
I don't know.

Tommy [02:00:34]:
I talk about this. Right, Alex, like I say, you should focus on a problem, and you should approach it from, like, it's very specific outcome. Like, you know what you can get from it, right? You heard me say that.

Eldar [02:00:46]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:00:47]:
Well, it's, like, my method, and that has taught me self determination. You know, I'm thinking, actually, about years ago, I was telling the guys I really wanted to work at Starbucks. They were like, are you crazy? You want to work for this crazy corporation that controls you? I was like, they're great. They're awesome.

Mike [02:01:06]:
You definitely did say that, but we definitely didn't say that.

Eldar [02:01:10]:
All right.

Tommy [02:01:11]:
Somebody said something along those lines.

Eldar [02:01:12]:
He was hiding them up like crazy. Like, they're gonna pay his student bill.

Toliy [02:01:16]:
Everything's gonna be great. They care about everybody.

Mike [02:01:21]:
Yeah. They locked him in the dungeon for a week, and they beat him every.

Eldar [02:01:23]:
Day with, oh, my God.

Tommy [02:01:25]:
Okay, and here's what happened.

Mike [02:01:27]:
This is true story.

Tommy [02:01:28]:
I wore a v neck to the.

Mike [02:01:30]:
Interview, and they almost gutted him like.

Tommy [02:01:32]:
A fish, and I got rejected. I actually. The interview did not even commence, like a big fish. Okay. And. And. And basically, the guy was like, you know, I, like, you're not consistent, and therefore, I'm not, like, gonna move forward without. Without any questions at all.

Tommy [02:01:54]:
Without any. The interview began by me sitting, and it was over within 60 seconds. I was like, nick cage out of there, bro.

Toliy [02:02:03]:
Why, though?

Tommy [02:02:04]:
Well, I I don't know. I think it was the v neck. I probably wore a shirt that made him uncomfortable or something.

Mike [02:02:10]:
You don't have any tattoos or piercings. You weren't eclectic enough or eccentric. Eccentric enough.

Tommy [02:02:14]:
Yeah, well, you know, I was excited. I was excited about it.

Toliy [02:02:19]:
What are the feedback was that the person provided you?

Tommy [02:02:22]:
The feedback was literally, I've looked at your resume. There are a lot of gaps. And he gauged his interest in me by just seeing how I emotionally react and told me straight up, I don't like you. That's kind of what he said.

Toliy [02:02:39]:
He was just, like, validity to that statement.

Tommy [02:02:43]:
You're not consistent. Right.

Eldar [02:02:44]:
Is that true?

Tommy [02:02:45]:
At the time. At the time what? It was 2012. Look, I'm not gonna claim that I had great work history. I had some work history, but it was just past the recession. I was going through a lot of shit. I was doing drugs. I wasn't getting in trouble. And, you know, I just met you guys.

Tommy [02:02:58]:
I was a year clean. I was doing really well.

Eldar [02:03:00]:
So then what?

Toliy [02:03:01]:
Was he correct on his assessment?

Tommy [02:03:04]:
Yeah, by judging.

Toliy [02:03:07]:
By judging.

Tommy [02:03:08]:
By judging, yes. Like, this work history, trying to go.

Eldar [02:03:11]:
Into the Matrix, and the matrix denied you. Like, they said that this is not the rules we play by. By.

Tommy [02:03:17]:
I really set my expectations high.

Toliy [02:03:19]:
I looked at you and said, this is an inconsistent fucker. And we're not gonna hire. You don't want to train him.

Tommy [02:03:23]:
But here's the. Here's where he was wrong. He was wrong. He was right at looking at my work history on the page. He was wrong at not looking at me as the customer who had come in every day consistently.

Eldar [02:03:37]:
What does it have to do with you being, you being a good customer versus you being a good employee is two different things, Tom.

Tommy [02:03:42]:
I would hire somebody who understands what I'm selling and cares about it. I would. Because from them, I can open Starbucks.

Eldar [02:03:50]:
Number two and become a boss.

Tommy [02:03:53]:
Right ce I'm being sent to CEO next time I go back there. But listen, that's the. Besides the point. After this, I was very angry. I was furious because I. It was a new place. I felt like I would fit in there. It was going to be really nice.

Tommy [02:04:06]:
I had all these expectations. And what happened was I had a lot of, like, you know, I had. I started generating ideas. And I'm sitting in this guy's room, sitting in Eldar's room when. Right, right. When you started this company, you started this company. And I was looking at your bookshelf, and I saw some book on psychology, and I was like. And something clicked for me there.

Tommy [02:04:30]:
I said, I want to learn about this. There's a book on personality. And I started taking that book with me and going to drink coffee and reading and reading and reading it. And I started realizing, you know, what is consistent? Started asking myself, what is consistent through this study? And it just kind of, like, puts things in perspective on how, like, that anger can be so frustrating and, like, won't let you break free, and then it can be generated into something, like, through something good.

Eldar [02:05:14]:
Yeah, I'm glad you found something good from that.

Tommy [02:05:16]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:05:16]:
You let go of that anger, Tom, did you?

Toliy [02:05:19]:
Oh, shit.

Tommy [02:05:21]:
Wow. No, I take it out on everybody who works at Starbucks today, bro.

Eldar [02:05:26]:
Good.

Tommy [02:05:27]:
No, I don't take it out.

Eldar [02:05:29]:
So, Mike, do we answer your questions?

Mike [02:05:31]:
My questions? No, we didn't answer. What are the ways anger is disguised?

Eldar [02:05:36]:
Oh, yeah.

Mike [02:05:37]:
That was from about half an hour ago when I tried it. Yeah, for a time, you went off on a tangent.

Eldar [02:05:41]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anger disguises itself, right? A lot of times people will mask anger and kind of put on. Put on this okay face that they're okay, but inside they're very angry.

Guest [02:05:51]:
Like, with the smile.

Eldar [02:05:53]:
Huh?

Guest [02:05:53]:
Like, with a smile.

Eldar [02:05:54]:
They do that?

Guest [02:05:55]:
I do.

Eldar [02:05:56]:
You do? Yeah, there was a. Yeah. Who are you applying that to?

Tommy [02:06:01]:
Yeah, Alex, you don't have to say names.

Guest [02:06:05]:
No, no.

Tommy [02:06:06]:
Just use, like, a pseudonym.

Guest [02:06:07]:
Oh, no, it's not specific, and that's not the specific person. It's usually, if I'm, like, in public, people don't know me. I give us very, like, cheery disposition, especially at work. There was a customer who was, like, very upset that I would not accept her return because she needs a receipt. She needs something to attach to the register. She just was not understanding. I'm just like, very politely, I'm like, ma'am, please, please. All of the whole time, I'm just like, don't get out of the line right now.

Guest [02:06:40]:
I'm gonna hop over this counter.

Toliy [02:06:44]:
What?

Eldar [02:06:45]:
I'll hit you with this book right now.

Guest [02:06:47]:
I know, me too. Again, it's an older person, but I'm just like. She's like, she could be someone's grandma. It's fine. She could be like, she probably, like.

Mike [02:06:54]:
Not hearing me all day does not guarantee.

Guest [02:06:56]:
Yeah. So, like, that too.

Toliy [02:06:59]:
But, like, death in Texas, you know.

Guest [02:07:03]:
You'Ve been to stores for, like, I don't know. I assume for a long time. So, like, even if, like, you were, like, losing it a bit, aged, like, you would know how these procedures work. Like, you can't.

Eldar [02:07:12]:
Do you know how dementia works a little bit. You do?

Guest [02:07:16]:
Yeah, yeah. I looked into it because I was confused about what's the difference between Alzheimer's and dementia.

Eldar [02:07:20]:
All right, cool. I mean, there's a lot of different mental illnesses that can be happening where people don't remember.

Guest [02:07:26]:
Yeah, right.

Toliy [02:07:27]:
Like, how time is not a guaranteed teacher. Right.

Eldar [02:07:32]:
Why are you saying that? Based on her thing?

Toliy [02:07:34]:
Well, like, she's saying because, like, like, I mean, she brought up a few examples. One of them, like, her parents have been, you know, doing dishes or something, stuff like that for a very long time.

Eldar [02:07:42]:
Yeah, yeah, right.

Toliy [02:07:43]:
Or, like, you know, let's say this old lady has been going to stores for a very.

Eldar [02:07:47]:
Yeah. She assumed. She said, yeah, yeah.

Toliy [02:07:49]:
It does not mean that, like, if you've been doing something for a long time that you are, like, competent in doing it. Or like under stand the scope. What's going on? You could be doing something wrong for a very long time and not knowing.

Eldar [02:08:03]:
Yeah, yeah, but it's like, you know, but common sense, like, like you have to bring a receipt kind of thing. You know, it's kind of like widely known, let's just say. Right. And yeah, it's probably, you know, it's fair to say that a lot of people would assume what she assumed, which Alex assumed at the register. They're like, hey, lady, like, but you know, that you need to get a receipt, bring a receipt, you know, to return this stuff. You know. I mean, now it's changed too.

Mike [02:08:24]:
Also anger when you guys are saying that. I think anger in that case, person for feels maybe that you're out to get them somehow. That, like, they feel like they're targeted, which is also interesting about it.

Eldar [02:08:36]:
Well, yeah.

Mike [02:08:36]:
You know, why people, why is that like a response where they feel like they're being excluded?

Eldar [02:08:41]:
Well, you got understand that there's two people on two different spectrums, right? Alex here has to do a job that she's told to do in a specific way.

Mike [02:08:49]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:08:50]:
That's her goal.

Mike [02:08:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:08:51]:
Okay. There's an individual who has a very specific goal to come over here and return this book.

Toliy [02:08:56]:
Any means they might even know that they fucked up.

Eldar [02:08:59]:
Correct. I mean, yeah, I've come to stores plenty of times with no receipts and stuff like that, with an impression like, oh, I'm gonna get a good sales associate who's gonna help me out here, you know what I mean? But two people on completely two different spectrums here. She's trying to do her job the right way and she's trying to return the book her way, the wrong way. The wrong way.

Guest [02:09:15]:
She didn't even buy the book. It was a gift. So it wasn't like she was losing any money.

Eldar [02:09:19]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:09:21]:
You wanna make money here.

Eldar [02:09:22]:
Well, yeah. Right. So she's trying to double dip even, you know, but because two people are completely different, opposite spectrums, I think that's when they clash. Right. She says no and she says yes. I mean, no. I mean, both of them are then in the fight.

Mike [02:09:36]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:09:36]:
Especially because the old lady was. Her job was to get this book returned, you know, at any means. So. So, you know, she had her goal.

Mike [02:09:45]:
Which she was attached to, which was return the book.

Eldar [02:09:48]:
Correct.

Mike [02:09:48]:
And she felt like anybody who was taught in getting in the way for gold.

Eldar [02:09:51]:
Correct.

Mike [02:09:52]:
She had a reason to get angry at that.

Eldar [02:09:54]:
Correct? Yeah, correct. Like, you know, it wasn't personal, obviously.

Mike [02:09:58]:
But she made it.

Eldar [02:09:58]:
Both individuals, they're folded on their own way. Right. Yeah. Alex probably is probably the winner here in the sense that she's more reasonable. Right. Because she's okay. There's a pattern there. You should know the receipts.

Eldar [02:10:11]:
And she's not considering that this lady might have dementia or Alzheimer's. Right. Versus this lady who's like, hey, look, she's the one who's in the wrong. Because returning a gift, like, you know what I mean? Throw it out in the trash, you know? So your. Your anger was more justified.

Tommy [02:10:32]:
We didn't really talk about how if it's justified. Right? Anger. Did we say anything about justifying anger?

Eldar [02:10:38]:
We did talk about it. We tried to. Yeah.

Mike [02:10:41]:
But.

Eldar [02:10:41]:
Yeah, you masked. You said you mask it with a smile.

Toliy [02:10:43]:
The only justification of anger that I can think of is not knowing any better.

Eldar [02:10:51]:
But you can't even do it on yourself. Right. That would be. That's a contradiction.

Toliy [02:10:59]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:11:01]:
You can't do it to yourself or.

Eldar [02:11:02]:
You cannot do it yourself.

Mike [02:11:03]:
Well, yeah, but you can do it in the moment.

Toliy [02:11:05]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:11:06]:
You can do to others.

Mike [02:11:06]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:11:07]:
Yeah. Correct. Yeah.

Toliy [02:11:10]:
Everybody's justification for themselves of being angry will be a very good one.

Eldar [02:11:16]:
Correct. I.

Toliy [02:11:17]:
Very good.

Eldar [02:11:18]:
A passable for yourself.

Toliy [02:11:19]:
Yeah. But does not mean that it's. But there. Yeah.

Eldar [02:11:22]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:11:22]:
Does not mean that it's true.

Eldar [02:11:25]:
So if you don't want to do the legwork to find out why your parents actually doing the dishes the way they do, you might have to do the legwork on the other side to find out why are you so attached to that particular outcome. Yeah. Are you a neat freak? Are you a clean freak? There you go. I don't know.

Guest [02:11:41]:
Oh, I thought.

Eldar [02:11:42]:
I don't know. You don't have to answer that.

Guest [02:11:43]:
Oh, okay.

Eldar [02:11:44]:
Right.

Guest [02:11:44]:
Well, yeah.

Eldar [02:11:46]:
You know what I mean? So you could. What I'm saying work. You can do work either on the back end to try to understand them, to say, hey, what's up with my parents? They're getting old and senile or whatever. Right? That's why they don't do the dishes properly. Or you can say, how can you do. Why do I have this attachment?

Tommy [02:12:04]:
Like, what kind of work would you suggest?

Eldar [02:12:07]:
Like, what kind of work?

Tommy [02:12:08]:
Very specific to just, like, what to note. To note these things. Like, mentally or something like.

Eldar [02:12:12]:
No, first you go find out. Right. You have a sit down with mom. Hey, mom, you know, I noticed, um, that you have been leaving dishes with food on. On them.

Tommy [02:12:21]:
Is that something you've ever done?

Eldar [02:12:22]:
You've asked. No, she has not.

Mike [02:12:23]:
Is that.

Toliy [02:12:24]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:12:24]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:12:24]:
Like if you have that conversation, like, would you say, like, is that because you're not seeing it or because you want to try or you want a piece of what you ate or did.

Eldar [02:12:31]:
You go to the doctors and the doctor told you that you have a mental issue?

Toliy [02:12:35]:
Yeah. Or maybe it's intentional where you want to try a piece of what you had in the future.

Eldar [02:12:39]:
Yeah. You say that too. Right. That's one way of doing that. Right. Is to find out what you think the causes of the problem. Right. Your parents is cause to find out and investigate a little bit more there.

Eldar [02:12:52]:
The other side is to leave them alone. Know that there is a cause. Not really do that side because you don't want to deal with it, but deal with yourself as to find out why do I care in the first place. Is there another way that I can go maneuver myself around this problem to.

Mike [02:13:07]:
Not be affected, but it might also not be linked to dishes at all. You may have anger from something else, but it just comes out in this.

Eldar [02:13:13]:
This is true.

Mike [02:13:14]:
That's why it's also very.

Eldar [02:13:15]:
Yes.

Mike [02:13:16]:
You know, can also correct.

Toliy [02:13:17]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:13:17]:
She might be frustrated with a parents about something else. You know what I mean?

Toliy [02:13:21]:
Yes. That's why I was saying before is that maybe it's not that call in the court. It could be those five days before that.

Eldar [02:13:26]:
Yes.

Toliy [02:13:26]:
Of frustration without one call. Now that's it. Like you have five days of.

Eldar [02:13:30]:
Correct.

Toliy [02:13:30]:
Of anger just coming out.

Eldar [02:13:32]:
She might be punishing them on something else. Yeah, yeah. She might have some kind of resentment, some kind of thing where it's like, okay, cool, I finally got them. They messed this up, and I'm gonna scold them. And she's angry at them. Justified anger.

Toliy [02:13:44]:
Yeah. Which happens in my household.

Eldar [02:13:46]:
Yeah, yeah. You bring up those examples all the time.

Toliy [02:13:48]:
Everyone is out to get each other.

Eldar [02:13:49]:
Everybody's out to get each other.

Toliy [02:13:50]:
They cannot wait to find you on something. Like to catch you on something.

Eldar [02:13:53]:
Yes.

Toliy [02:13:54]:
So, so, yeah, this is true.

Eldar [02:13:58]:
Some people compete almost, right? Yeah, yeah.

Tommy [02:14:00]:
It's called gunny sacking, actually. It's like when you let things build up and build up and build up until a point where it just explodes. And it's like you do certain things to just, you know, get from the side at people. You know, I mean, like, you know, you say, say you don't want your room clean, which my mom doesn't. Sometimes she comes in my room and she just, you know, touches everything. You know, she changes things in my room and, you know, I might have a book open now it's closed and it's on the shelf. Now, this may be a form of just communicating, I care about you and this and that, but also it can also be a form of saying we're not approaching the problem, we're not caring for it, we haven't discussed it, and therefore we don't know if something should be done about it. I don't like your mess.

Tommy [02:14:47]:
I'm going to continue doing this, and I'm going to continue doing it until you realize that it's me, that I'm the one who's right.

Eldar [02:14:54]:
You know what I mean? Yeah.

Tommy [02:14:56]:
So now it's this. You're cleaning up this.

Eldar [02:14:58]:
You can't make any assumptions without first sitting down and actually having a conversation. But rarely we do. And that's why a lot of times we'll resort to communication, like anger.

Toliy [02:15:08]:
That's also like a, like a funny thing is that we are way faster to make assumptions than to actually have the conversation.

Eldar [02:15:14]:
Yeah, we're good.

Toliy [02:15:15]:
General.

Eldar [02:15:16]:
In general. Yeah. In general, yeah.

Mike [02:15:18]:
But it's also my, it's. I'm not sure if you can say that because it may be a trace thing. You have to actually trace back the first time that you did it to say that statement. Because I don't know if initially you gave the chance, and now the assumption is just developed to be the faster response. Maybe beginning when you were younger, before you had this relationship with the person, you didn't assume, but after some time, some frustration, you may have become more inclined towards assumptions.

Eldar [02:15:46]:
That's what I think. Right.

Mike [02:15:50]:
You don't just blow up first time out of nothing for somebody you just met. And there's, let's say there's no five days thing. Like you said, you don't just come and somebody does something. You don't right away start raging, you know? At least that's what I think. I'm not, there's not, like, proven, just. I'm just thinking out loud. Yeah, but, yeah, you're not just gonna blow up. I think it has to be a history of you trying and then, you know, not everyone.

Toliy [02:16:17]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like.

Mike [02:16:20]:
But generally, I think it might be the case.

Toliy [02:16:22]:
No, I'm talking about, like, in the examples where people are doing things and you don't know exactly why because you never had the conversation, but you make an assumption as to why.

Mike [02:16:30]:
Yeah, I think that's also like a learned thing as well. Not for everybody.

Eldar [02:16:34]:
By.

Toliy [02:16:34]:
How can you learn that if you never have the conversation?

Mike [02:16:37]:
You've never spoken to a person in your life?

Toliy [02:16:40]:
Well, no, I'm saying that, like, for example, like, if. If Tom's mom is always, like, putting away a book or, like, cleaning his room in a certain way where he doesn't, like, like it, like, he could grow frustrated with what's happening. But if you never had the conversation as to, like, why this is happening, and he gets.

Mike [02:16:57]:
I'm saying there was a time that he gave the approach of having a conversation and trying to get. The parents fucked him off. And he's like, well, I can't have a conversation with them. So I'm just gonna assume that I.

Tommy [02:17:08]:
Usually would approach that kind of shit with anger, for sure.

Mike [02:17:10]:
But is it angry because it's learned response to their response because they weren't giving you the time of day to have that conversation? Like, that's what I'm saying. I might be that kind of, well.

Tommy [02:17:21]:
Anytime I would try to approach, like, anytime I try to confront problem regarding, like, you know, just something that went actually, I don't think I ever, I don't think I ever did. I think that self doubt and shame was, like, primary in.

Mike [02:17:37]:
You didn't have a good thinking about your parents.

Eldar [02:17:39]:
Yeah.

Mike [02:17:40]:
Behavior because you were a sneaky little bugger.

Tommy [02:17:42]:
I mean, I certainly had behavioral problems.

Mike [02:17:44]:
Yeah. I didn't have a good open line of communication. My parents as well. So, you know, I know what you're saying, and that's.

Tommy [02:17:53]:
I think. I think that's also out of love. You know, I think anger sometimes involves love. Like, it involves what? Anger towards love.

Eldar [02:18:00]:
What did you say? Okay, because I'm gonna start.

Tommy [02:18:04]:
I may not have said it logically and. Okay.

Toliy [02:18:09]:
All right, here.

Tommy [02:18:11]:
I think that there are some. There are sometimes, uh, uh, ambiguous feelings in love.

Eldar [02:18:19]:
Let's not try to use big words to cover up something. That's very simple.

Tommy [02:18:23]:
Mixed feelings.

Eldar [02:18:24]:
And I'm not buying that.

Tommy [02:18:25]:
No, no, that's it.

Eldar [02:18:26]:
That's.

Tommy [02:18:26]:
You got the. You got the reward, you got the gold. Mixed feelings and love, which can include anger. You know, it's like anger at, I don't know, being pestered. My mom used to pester me a lot. Clean this before you go out. Do that. You know, and you know that actually, this hasn't come up in a long time.

Tommy [02:18:45]:
In this group. We've talked about, like, how, you know, you try to do something and then suddenly something just goes boom, like, right in your face, and it just ruins your day. You know, do this for me. Do that for me. You know, that kind of thing. And I think often my mom or my dad, they're trying to do things. Or like, they're saying, yo, hold up. You know, let me make a fucking sandwich and go watch some tv.

Tommy [02:19:08]:
Shut the fuck up with that for a second, and then I will listen to you because they. They care about you and they want to give you their full attention. And just because you see them right there available, you love them doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, like, some kind of correct communication occurs.

Mike [02:19:31]:
Okay, I understood nothing.

Eldar [02:19:33]:
You said a whole bunch of nothing. Tom said a lot of things.

Tommy [02:19:38]:
Right now, if I keep talking over.

Eldar [02:19:40]:
You, we're not gonna speak.

Toliy [02:19:41]:
Right?

Eldar [02:19:41]:
But if.

Tommy [02:19:42]:
If I. If I acknowledge that you're trying to communicate something to me and I'm. I start to listen and I attend to what you're listening, what you're about to say, then it'll be, you know, I can. I can pick up on cues and I think we can start to have, you know, a fair exchange, let's say.

Toliy [02:20:02]:
So how does anger equal love?

Eldar [02:20:04]:
Yeah, you said, you know.

Tommy [02:20:06]:
No, I think love is sometimes expressed. Oh, yes, I think anger is sometimes expressed in love. You know, through. Through having, like, sometimes anger is present in love and in what exam? Like.

Toliy [02:20:21]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:20:22]:
Have you ever heard anyone say, like, oh, they. They do that, um.

Eldar [02:20:26]:
They love you.

Tommy [02:20:27]:
Yeah, they do that because they love you.

Eldar [02:20:28]:
Oh, nice. And now you bought that, huh?

Guest [02:20:32]:
I'm sorry.

Eldar [02:20:33]:
No, I wouldn't think it is very.

Tommy [02:20:35]:
Seriously, I wouldn't say no.

Guest [02:20:36]:
Just what you said. No, I agree.

Eldar [02:20:39]:
I agree that the people say that too.

Guest [02:20:41]:
No, no, no. They express their love through anger. And.

Eldar [02:20:46]:
Yeah, I hear about men beating women too, and say, I love you. I love you. I sit you in the face to give you black eye.

Guest [02:20:54]:
No, not to that extreme. No. And I'll say, cuz my family culturally is jamaican. Like jamaican indian. And in the booyah in caribbean household, love is often expressed through, like, you could say anger. Like aggression in a way. Like, if me and my cousins were, like, playing too roughly, in a way that my grandma was worried we're gonna hurt herself, she yell at us to, like, stop that and everything. But if you listen to, like, like, the volume of it, it's like, oh, angry.

Guest [02:21:40]:
She's angry at us. But if you listen to, like, the word she's saying, it's like, oh, because I'm worried you're gonna do so and so, right. And I don't want to have to take you to the hospital because x, y and z and blah, blah, blah and, like, stuff like that. Like, one time with my well, an actual experience with my younger sister when she was still small. My brother likes to be, like, nonchalant. He's like, yeah, whatever. I don't care. She did something.

Guest [02:22:07]:
I don't remember what it was, but he got so scared for her that she was gonna hurt herself that he started yelling at her to stop doing that and everything. I don't remember. It was, like, years ago. I don't remember the exact thing he said, but she went to the room, and she started crying, and she's like, oh, he hates me. Because did you hear the way he yelled at me? And I was like, no. Did you hear the words he said? He was scared for you. He was worried you're gonna, like, bust your head open by doing what you were doing. Like, he was just so concerned.

Guest [02:22:37]:
He just. It just came out as anger because he was just, like, so passionate about it.

Eldar [02:22:42]:
You know what, Tom? I'm gonna throw your bone here, okay? Literally. Yes. This is an Alex did throw your bone as well. This is a very confusing. What's his name? Example. Okay? However, I will break it down. In that moment. In that moment that was happening with this.

Eldar [02:23:02]:
The girl, right? You said sister. Your younger sister and your brother. All right? In that moment, what she was doing was a bad behavior, which can result in her getting hurt. In that moment, anger was applied, right. In a very controlled, specific way towards a specific person that was running amok at that time. Is that registering?

Tommy [02:23:28]:
It does, yeah, it does.

Eldar [02:23:29]:
Okay. So what's happening there? The brother is angry. Is angry, actually, at that specific person that was doing that specific action. Because that result of that specific action. Right. It's gonna get her in trouble.

Tommy [02:23:46]:
I see.

Eldar [02:23:47]:
Okay. However, they blended it in, right? And. And the girl starts crying, and she's like, oh, he hates me. Yes, he does hate you for doing that specific action. If you continue to do this specific action, he's going to continue to hate that. So stop. You understand? It's not explained this way. Right? She kind of patted her fall.

Eldar [02:24:08]:
She said, no, he loves you. Listen to the words. You know what I'm saying? Because the words mean what he actually means. He cares for you. You know what I mean? But the truth of the matter is, there was a clear separation that the girl who was running amok at that time and almost getting hurt is hated by the brother. This is why he actually said what he said, and he was angry with her. And there's nothing wrong with that. However, that was not love.

Eldar [02:24:33]:
Let's not confuse that. Yes. In that form, that girl that was at that moment doing that particular action. There's no way, right. That he was displaying love by screaming at her, getting angry. There was no love there.

Mike [02:24:48]:
It's a moment. Moment to moment thing.

Eldar [02:24:49]:
Correct. But it was very blended, very quick. You know what I'm saying? I think he used anger in that moment as a tool. Right. To stop that particular behavior. And then he had to explain himself that. Listen, I yelled at you just because of this, but I love you. Okay, but you get that confused, right?

Tommy [02:25:12]:
I don't know if.

Eldar [02:25:12]:
No. What needs to be said? What needs to be said? Tom, if you continue to do this behavior, you will continue to see me get angry at it. Why? Because I don't support it and I don't agree with it. So if you want to be this person, you'll get the angry brother. But if you want to be normal and not hurt yourself, I will love you, but it's not explained that way. Wow.

Tommy [02:25:35]:
And I don't think I've ever heard. Yeah, I'm not sure if I've heard it that way.

Eldar [02:25:39]:
Well, that's what's actually happening.

Tommy [02:25:40]:
And I feel like I. And I've been conditioned to do. To kind of justify people's anger press.

Eldar [02:25:46]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:25:46]:
And justify others anger towards me. You know, it starts in school. It starts at school when you. You're not sure about why people, you know, say certain things or treat you in certain ways or favor others over you, and it just goes to home, and you're like, why the fuck is this, you know, this kind of behavior continuing to occur? And, you know, it feels almost disrespectful to approach the person who you care for and you, you know, loves you and is supposed to, like, continuously love you and say what you're doing.

Eldar [02:26:20]:
The brother almost is peddling confusion here. Right? On one hand, he loves her. On the other hand, he's willing to resort to this type of anger in order to teach her. Obviously, the brother should. Right. I don't. I don't agree with the way he applied anger here. Right.

Eldar [02:26:35]:
Because it clearly sent the message of confusion. Right. Because she started crying.

Guest [02:26:39]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:26:39]:
She was puzzled. What you should have done. Right. Should have probably then, you know, sat her down and had a conversation with her, an actual conversation. Hey, I don't want you to do this because this can result into this, and this could get everybody upset and get me, you know, worried for you, and the whole family will be worried for you, and we would not like you to do that.

Tommy [02:27:00]:
But why does that sound so strange to think of those words as important things.

Eldar [02:27:05]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:27:05]:
Because it sounds strange. So a lot of people, I think, to have reasonable and logical conversations. What doesn't sound strange is like, Tom, put that shit fucking down.

Eldar [02:27:13]:
You're like, oh, shit. Okay, okay, okay.

Toliy [02:27:16]:
Yeah. That to you, even though that I think to me, or maybe to us while we're hearing it, sounds more crazy.

Eldar [02:27:22]:
Right?

Tommy [02:27:23]:
Yeah, but we internalize it.

Toliy [02:27:24]:
Well, no, we. We have, a long time ago said that that second way I just communicate with you is okay and that me having a reasonable conversation with you is not okay.

Eldar [02:27:34]:
Yeah, you. You gave a pass a long time ago that this is a form of communication that you're okay with. Yeah. You know, and we. A lot of us did. You know, and that's why we have people that we constantly come across at your store, at home. Your store, my home. You know, all this other stuff where we come across people that communicate to us or try to communicate to us right on the basketball court with anger.

Eldar [02:27:56]:
So, Asa, if you're listening, you can't communicate that kind of shit towards at least me. Totally in Mike. I mean, you already knew that. We got no time for it. You have to find a different way of communication. I think you did with us. And we hope. And we hope as these my final thoughts for you.

Eldar [02:28:15]:
You hope to find this type of communication, the proper communication to everyone else. Yeah. You have to, because not everybody's gonna be so reasonable.

Toliy [02:28:22]:
Yeah. You have to make your jump shots and stop passing it to the wrong team.

Eldar [02:28:26]:
This is correct inside you.

Toliy [02:28:34]:
Yeah. Even in, like, the world of, like, you know, employees and, like. Like, workers and customers sometimes, like, I think it's a more wide, widely accepted thing than. Not that, like, customers have their right to be disrespectful to employees.

Eldar [02:28:48]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:28:48]:
At stores or at restaurants or customers.

Eldar [02:28:52]:
Always. Right. Which is not true. But that's what they train you.

Toliy [02:28:59]:
Yeah, not really.

Guest [02:29:01]:
Well, not in my.

Eldar [02:29:01]:
They try to. Right. Well, I mean, I don't know about barnes and nobles, but she.

Tommy [02:29:05]:
Alex has complained many times about the folks that come up to the register. I mean, this person, that person. I wonder if that plays a role, too. And you know how you think about when people think it's okay, you know, to, like, behave that way? You know, like, you told me someone blew up once, right?

Eldar [02:29:28]:
When do we accept?

Guest [02:29:29]:
Um.

Eldar [02:29:32]:
Sorry.

Guest [02:29:33]:
Yeah. It's like two different things.

Tommy [02:29:35]:
Didn't you mention to me that somebody, like, blew up one day, went crazy on you? Oh, not. Not this one with the receipt.

Guest [02:29:41]:
Oh, yeah. It was a lady on the phone just, like, it was nine in the morning. We just, like, just opened. And she was mad that I didn't know the exact address of the store. Cause I'm like, we're part of, like. Like, attached to a mall. So I told her where the mall was. She want, like, the exact address, and I was like, oh, let me look it up for you.

Guest [02:29:58]:
And then she was just like, don't you work there? Shouldn't. You know? And she just started, like, calling me, like, stupid and, like, a bitch and everything. I was like, what? Where did all this come from? But we're allowed to, like, hang up on them because we're not, like, supposed to let customers talk to us like that. So just, like, hang up or, like, call. Yeah, I just, like, split down.

Eldar [02:30:15]:
Yeah.

Guest [02:30:16]:
And then my manager said, are you okay? Because I guess speaking to her, like, a little bit, I'm like, no. Yeah.

Eldar [02:30:19]:
Did you get startled?

Mike [02:30:20]:
A little bit.

Guest [02:30:21]:
A little bit. But, like, just more of. Just, like, wow. Like, what time is it? Like, where. Where am I?

Eldar [02:30:26]:
Like, good morning.

Guest [02:30:27]:
Yeah, right. Like, am I awake right now? Is it happening? Like, okay. I'm like, I didn't. I didn't ask for this.

Eldar [02:30:34]:
Why?

Guest [02:30:34]:
Why did you? My question is with her, I'm like, what was. Must be going on with her life? Yeah, like, that. Like, in the morning that, like, she was already, like, at her peak that.

Eldar [02:30:44]:
This was like, she probably didn't even sleep.

Guest [02:30:45]:
Yeah, right?

Toliy [02:30:46]:
She was just ready picking up the.

Guest [02:30:50]:
Phone, like, over an address. I'm like, if you looked up the phone number for the store, you can see the address right underneath. So I'm just like, what's going on with your life? That. Yeah, I just felt bad for her in that moment. I'm just like, all right, well, hopefully things get better.

Tommy [02:31:04]:
I noticed Starbucks. Like, the regulars who come in. Like, there are ones. There are regulars who are kind of funky, and they're funny. Do you have regulars at your store?

Guest [02:31:13]:
Yes. Yep.

Toliy [02:31:14]:
By the way, let me just say this.

Guest [02:31:16]:
I don't work for a bunch of books.

Mike [02:31:18]:
Yeah.

Guest [02:31:18]:
I'm always so glad to see her.

Tommy [02:31:19]:
Okay, and what kind of. How would you describe her temperament? Like, her personality? What do you think about her?

Guest [02:31:25]:
Oh, she reminds me of my grandma. She's very sweet. She comes up if it's, like, after the holiday season, smiling, maybe. Well, she was a masked, but okay.

Tommy [02:31:33]:
Yeah, but she looks, like, in a good mood.

Guest [02:31:35]:
She looks a little lost sometimes, but she's. Her mind's starting to go a little bit, but she's so cute. She always has, like, a little, like, she cuts out, like, little newspaper clippings of, like, the books she, like, wants to read and, like, wants to order. And, like, I think she said her niece. Her niece drives her. So, like, her niece is there, but she always asked me, like, oh, how are you? Like, how was your holidays? How's the family?

Tommy [02:31:56]:
So she's, like, a regular. She's a regular and she comes. You see her often? Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, I mean, I noticed that, like, with regular, sometimes they're just, like, more open. You know what I mean? Like, they're just cool people, and they just. They're funky in their weird ways. Like, like me, I'm like, I'm my own kind of freak, right?

Eldar [02:32:13]:
What are you trying to say, tom?

Tommy [02:32:14]:
Well, what I'm saying is there are other kinds of people who, day to day, like, this narrative continues, you know? Like, they may be up today and then tomorrow, like, they're still living yesterday, you know what I mean? And the next day, they may not feel good about yesterday. And so now they're a little on edge. Now they're having these expectations. Now they're going through these, like, motions. This thing again, and it starts to. I've seen it. I've seen it. It's like you're angrier and you're angry.

Tommy [02:32:49]:
Are coming in. Do you get those kind of people?

Guest [02:32:51]:
Oh, yes, definitely during the holidays.

Eldar [02:32:53]:
Like the regulars.

Guest [02:32:54]:
Um.

Tommy [02:32:54]:
Or like, that's people you see again and again.

Guest [02:32:57]:
Yeah. And then, like, I wouldn't call them, like, regular regulars, more like semi regulars. Like, I'll see them, like, once, like a month or so. My regulars are more like, like, once, like a week. But for the holidays, like, recently, we were, like, understaffed, and, like, they had, like, like, small, little snippy comments. Like, oh, like, okay, we look for a book. I couldn't find anyone out before, but I'm like, it's just me at the moment, but they don't know that. But they assumed since, like, the holidays, we'd have, like, a bunch of people ready at the.

Guest [02:33:25]:
Ready to help and assist. It's just like, just like, the undermining, like, little cutting things or when we run out of bags, because we still give out bags, like paper bags, but some people still expect, like, a bag or something, even if they're getting, like, one item that they can, like, put in their pocket. Like, they're like, oh, no, bags. And I'm just like, yeah, not for that.

Eldar [02:33:44]:
Not for that.

Guest [02:33:46]:
Or I'm like, you have these very thin bags just to show them, like, oh, this is your only option. And then they go, oh, never mind.

Eldar [02:33:54]:
Yeah. Thank you, Tom.

Tommy [02:33:57]:
I think it's wild. It's an interesting phenomenon. But let me put it this way.

Eldar [02:34:01]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:34:02]:
There's a point at which that can spill over, that makes the other person on edge and angry and the next person on edge and angry, and it's, like, contagious thing. So dealing with that, seeing it, being aware that you're in that environment, knowing that attention can support you for the better, just being observant as an artist or as a writer or as whatever, as a person, as a person, observing that and seeing it for what it is can help. Can help you achieve your goals. It can help you achieve what you desire to think.

Eldar [02:34:45]:
Those were good. Final thoughts, Tom. Well, totally. What? You got final thoughts on this stuff? Want to read the question again?

Toliy [02:34:56]:
Yeah, sure. Do unattained desire outcomes, do unattain desire desired outcomes breed, give birth to, or justify anger?

Eldar [02:35:09]:
Mm hmm.

Toliy [02:35:12]:
Yeah, I mean, I think they did. They do. I just think that, like, the way to chip away at this is to maybe examine the ways that we feel and that we communicate with the different things that we do every day in our lives.

Eldar [02:35:29]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:35:29]:
And see where anger lies, and then maybe to try to figure out why. But it may be hard to, like, chip away at that from the beginning, because you may be compromised to begin with.

Eldar [02:35:45]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:35:46]:
And I think that, like, just over time. Yeah. Over time, try to figure out, like, why you're angry, and hopefully come out with an answer that does not start with somebody else.

Eldar [02:36:05]:
Yeah, good point. Alex, what do you think? Final thoughts on anger?

Tommy [02:36:11]:
Alex? Let it rip.

Guest [02:36:14]:
Well, I like to think of anger as, like, a rattlesnake, like in the.

Toliy [02:36:20]:
Grass, just ready to strike.

Guest [02:36:24]:
Well, almost more of a cause. Rattlesnakes actually are not ready to strike. They rattle as a warning, like, hmm, you're freaking me out.

Tommy [02:36:33]:
Wow, that's great.

Guest [02:36:34]:
Yeah, you're freaking me out. And if you don't stop, I'm gonna lash out at you.

Eldar [02:36:39]:
Yeah.

Guest [02:36:39]:
And I think of anger like that, like, inherently, it's not, like, ready to strike, but it's more of just like. Like a warning. Like. Like, take a moment, pause.

Eldar [02:36:48]:
Yeah.

Guest [02:36:48]:
Like, with the external, internal stuff. Like, why am I getting upset at this situation? Or what about this external situation? That's, like, kind of hard to do.

Toliy [02:36:57]:
That without first getting angry. If in those kind of situations, it's hard to do.

Guest [02:37:03]:
If you never got angry in that situation in the first place, I would say, like, if you're, like, constantly going to, let's say, like a customer constantly going to a store, and you're constantly yelling at the employees at a moment, you take a moment, like when the snake starts rattling. Wait, why am I getting angry over this? I got angry over this, like, just the other day. It's the same thing happening here.

Toliy [02:37:26]:
Yeah.

Guest [02:37:26]:
What's. What's going on?

Eldar [02:37:29]:
Yeah, it's true. Okay. Anger is a rattlesnake. I love that.

Tommy [02:37:39]:
Yeah, it's freaking awesome.

Eldar [02:37:40]:
Good.

Tommy [02:37:41]:
It's a warning. There's a warning. You know? There's a freaking warning, dude. Come on, bro. This is right up your alley. You love this nature shit.

Eldar [02:37:49]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:37:49]:
I mean, do bees do anything?

Eldar [02:37:50]:
No.

Tommy [02:37:51]:
Regarding anger?

Eldar [02:37:52]:
No.

Guest [02:37:52]:
They just show up. Yeah.

Eldar [02:37:53]:
They just sting you, let you know you're a dumbass.

Toliy [02:37:56]:
They just say, get fucked up.

Eldar [02:37:59]:
Yeah.

Guest [02:38:01]:
Them stinging you is the warning.

Eldar [02:38:03]:
Yeah. The stinging you. Yeah. They kill themselves when they sting you.

Tommy [02:38:07]:
I get.

Eldar [02:38:08]:
I think.

Tommy [02:38:08]:
I think the snake is just a novel thing. It's just like a novel, you know? It has a novel.

Eldar [02:38:14]:
Yeah. Next time you go to a novel.

Toliy [02:38:20]:
Mike, nothing.

Eldar [02:38:22]:
You got nothing.

Guest [02:38:24]:
We said it all.

Eldar [02:38:26]:
And I have also. I mean, I'll just build on you what you guys said. I think the most important thing, the easy part, is to identify the anger that you have that already comes out. Right. The ones that you can see. Right. Like the example with your parents or the example with your customers where you lash out or whatever. The hard part is to find the ones that's very disguised.

Eldar [02:38:48]:
And the one, like you said, mike, the one that's been building up for a while. All right. For a while. It's not out yet. It's just spooling slowly because you on the wrong impression here. You're on the wrong impression there. You're on the wrong impression there. And things kind of lining up slowly.

Mike [02:39:04]:
Yeah.

Toliy [02:39:05]:
I think that it oftentimes builds in situations where someone's doing something that they don't like.

Eldar [02:39:10]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely right.

Toliy [02:39:13]:
That's gonna be a builder.

Eldar [02:39:15]:
A builder. Yeah, it is a builder, for sure. That definitely.

Toliy [02:39:18]:
Those are, like, very good, like, identifiers. You're constantly doing things you don't like.

Eldar [02:39:21]:
That's right.

Toliy [02:39:22]:
You are bound to, like to explode, for sure.

Eldar [02:39:26]:
So, like, I think that, you know, if we. Through this conversation, I think that the hard part, you know, one thing is to use anger. Like you said, a tool, but the hard part is to identify it when it's lurking in the grass.

Guest [02:39:38]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:39:38]:
And you won't see it, you know, but it is taking a toll on you. It's there, and it's doing damage. You know what I mean? We didn't talk about how to identify that or find it when it's disguised, you know, or hidden or deep, you know? Maybe one day we will.

Toliy [02:39:57]:
If you pay, that's good. $20 towards the patreon, you might have.

Eldar [02:40:00]:
Access to that, maybe to that episode. Yeah. But other than that, I think we tackle a lot of it. It's very good stuff, you know, and my suggestion is to, yeah. Try to see things for what they are so then you don't over overly attach yourself to desires.

Toliy [02:40:16]:
Yeah. Do you guys think that after the conversation, do you guys feel that anger is innate, or do you feel that it's a learned feeling or behavior?

Eldar [02:40:28]:
That's a different question.

Toliy [02:40:29]:
What was your question like after our conversation? Do you feel that, like, you are born right away into the world with the. With anger, or is anger something that you learned?

Tommy [02:40:46]:
That's a good question. I think. I think anger is something that you learn. Think in certain. Certain things that in the face of desire, anger or something that you learn, because there's. I don't know. I just think that there's, like, a lot of thinking going on in relationship to taking some step regarding work. You know, like, my.

Tommy [02:41:13]:
My family has always said that work is, like, about happiness.

Eldar [02:41:16]:
It's.

Tommy [02:41:16]:
It's about. It's a part of life that's unavoidable, that must be done in order to be happy. And I kind of makes sense. If you are a blocked artist and you're not doing what you should be doing, what kind of life you're gonna love? Not really. You know, not really much of a life, so. Yeah. Like, if it makes you angry, yeah. It could.

Tommy [02:41:41]:
Could just be a result of this great, you know, source of, like, experience that is life. You know, it could just be part of that. There's. How many books at Barnes and noble that you'll never read, all of how many books. That's got to tame you a bit. That's really got to humble you.

Guest [02:42:06]:
I like knowing I'll never be able to read them all.

Eldar [02:42:09]:
You like that thought? Yeah. What does it do to you?

Guest [02:42:13]:
Oh, just, like, feel like it centers me in a way. It's like, yeah, I'll never be able to have it all, and that's. That's great.

Eldar [02:42:22]:
Yeah, that's cool. Anyone else want to talk about? Totally. Question, um. Do you think it's innate or learned?

Guest [02:42:30]:
I thought the way it's expressed is. Is learned. I feel like, because I see anger just along with, like, any other emotion. Once you encounter a situation that, like, makes you feel that emotion. And, like. Like, we're all capable of being angry.

Eldar [02:42:45]:
But we're all innately. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree that we have the base.

Guest [02:42:50]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:42:50]:
And then we can install little.

Guest [02:42:51]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:42:52]:
Things like.

Guest [02:42:53]:
Right, like. So whether, like, anger is expressed in, like, yelling or, like, just how, maybe, like, calm, like, like, facial expressions, what you do.

Eldar [02:43:05]:
Yeah.

Guest [02:43:06]:
Like, how you word your words and everything. Like, like, in certain languages, like, in English, we raise our voices a lot, especially if, like, when you're upset, like, you bring it pretty high. But certain languages, like, I'm learning German, they don't really raise their voice that high. If they're upset, they add, like. Like, you can say sentence enhancers in the sentence to express that, like, oh, they're upset right now, even though there's talk.

Tommy [02:43:31]:
Hold on, I want 1 second. There's a point here about knowing words that relate to anger. Do you agree with this or not? Words that relate to anger?

Eldar [02:43:45]:
You know, like, what am I agreeing?

Tommy [02:43:46]:
Frustration, anger. Let's say fury. I don't know what.

Eldar [02:43:53]:
Just saying the words have nothing to do with anything.

Tommy [02:43:56]:
No, I disagree. Yeah.

Eldar [02:43:58]:
Why the, you know, like, the way you say it is what matters. You know, I could say the same word and happy way or a very shitty way in a very angry way. That's what I put into the words. Doesn't matter what the word is. Mm hmm. Tonality.

Guest [02:44:14]:
Yeah.

Eldar [02:44:14]:
Yeah.

Tommy [02:44:15]:
There could be subtle anger, right?

Eldar [02:44:17]:
Yeah. Punctuations and, like, all those. Calm down, please. Don't get too excited now. Yeah. All right. This was great, guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Eldar [02:44:33]:
Hopefully everyone took something back from it. If you didn't, that's okay, too. Not everybody's mind is capable. You know what I mean? That's all right. You said that's what I learned from you today. It's all right. It's part of life, you know what I mean? If your mind is not working, it's not working today. It's like the weather, you know?

Guest [02:44:48]:
Can't sweat all the small stuff. You gotta let something go.

Eldar [02:44:51]:
That's right. That's right. The dishes. Let the dishes go. Small stuff to use. Big to us is small. To each his own, right? Yeah. All right, well, thank you, guys.

Eldar [02:45:02]:
This was great. Again, thank you for coming.

Guest [02:45:04]:
Thank you for having me. Yeah, that was fun.

Eldar [02:45:06]:
Hope you enjoyed it. Yep. Bye.