112. Reflections and Revelations: Embracing the Humor and Heart of Personal Transformation

On this week's episode . What would you suggest to a person who's actually looking to make an actual change about themselves , about their life , about their character ?

I think people should take time to reflect . Now stop , now stop . I don't have time to sit down and think .

We think that we know it all and we actually don't know shit . Yeah .

And if you adapt this thing right In the more and more areas of your life , yeah , this will get you to the place where you want to be . Yeah , wow .

If you can raise enough awareness to yourself that this is how this works , you can literally accomplish anything which can be dangerous , depending on the choices you make .

Yeah , For a guy who probably draws like a monkey , he shouldn't even say the word . Artist , you shouldn't even say the word artist .

It's becoming a danger to society .

Holy moly , it's a danger to society .

Once you hear the D word , the doctor's like 65 milligrams .

They say your fingers were made for typing . Okay , and just sick to typing .

Unbelievable . What a transformation .

Yeah , you were surprised .

I mean this is bad , that's regression .

How bad .

Through the floor , are you ?

serious . Yeah , we've been working for so long . That's what I'm saying .

Like you're saying , like you know , Listen whatever he's got on his mind , Regardless of what the diagnosis is it doesn't matter how low we went .

Yeah , you know what the shit .

Fuck all that noise , bro . You know what I'm saying .

Yeah , tom whatever it is , I'm telling you we're here with you . Yes , or no , we're definitely trying . We're trying and we're not going to give up on you .

You know that Is speaking on your behalf , so you should appreciate it . Don't look at me like you just got your own shit there , tom . There's a lot of kids that fell through the cracks Backing you up .

Tom , you fell through the cracks for a very long time when you were not under AFSA provision . Now that you are under AFSA provision and you're still Mike's son Wait , did Philip adopt the last episode ? Okay , so it's now that you're a Philip son . You're not going to fall through the cracks anymore . You're under our watch Now .

I'm a sound mind . That's all I'm going to mind , all that matters to me , right now is I'm thinking clearly . You know what I'm saying . Let the record show that I'm thinking clearly . So that's all that matters , all right ?

You're thinking clearly this is very good , and you said that you're not smoking cigarettes anymore , so your judgment is not impaired .

Yeah , I wouldn't add that on right now because it's not relevant , but you know , oh good , fine , yeah , that's true , very good , I'm glad that you're on point .

All right . So the topic which I guess we can roll off of the fact that me and Mike and Toly had similar conversations again , which is it's a phenomenon itself where sometimes we get to the same point in two different conversations without all the parties knowing what we're talking about . Obviously you know and that was Mike .

What we're talking about yesterday . Try about second nature .

Yeah , yeah .

Second nature .

Second nature . Toly , does that ring a bell ? Second nature ? Yeah , and you will . Obviously , when I explain everything , it'll make all sense .

When you were having this conversation , was he ? Yeah , yeah , I used the word second nature .

Was he at his lunch break ? No , listen , he was present in that moment . And I think and the mission that he's on right now should solidify that he actually knows what I'm talking about . Second nature is the keyword .

What comes to you as second nature . You're saying yeah . You're saying like a change in identity , yes .

So what do we talk about ? Are you sure he was present ?

Like about the like exercising and turning into the person who's not a fat piece of shit , yeah that's part of it .

Yes , but yeah , he knows that's what we're talking about , right ? Yeah , so what we talked about with both Mike and Toly on different occasions , without knowing that we were talking with one another , about the fact that we're talking about the stuff is that about second nature ?

Well , the breakdown was this Can I just yell at him for a second ? Why are you fucking looking at me like that ? What I was playing , time was going on .

He's giving me this weird eye . He was making weird mouth sounds .

He was doing this , like doing this . I'm sorry .

I'm sorry I'm doing the . I have to now submit to the record that I had a root canal . Oh , ok , fair enough .

That's why you're like that , checking on that too . That's why it's why did they inject you with the drugs ?

That's not wearing off yet , right yeah , hi-haw , hi-hia .

On record , all right , so second nature . So what we talked about is that a lot of times in our life right , and I think everybody can relate to this , especially Serge . We want to change something about ourselves . Mm-hmm . Right .

He laughs at these 500 pounds right .

Yeah , like he's losing his breath .

Yeah , he can't breathe A lot of times we want to change something about ourselves meaning in life . Right , if we lose weight , we're going to read more , eat better .

Go out party more Go out party more .

Yes , thank you , sir Going to yacht . Going to yacht more , right . Travel more and all this other fucking crap , right . And we associate ourselves with these characters or want to become these characters that we want to implement certain changes . So we'll go and sit down and read a book one book , right ?

Then we become conscious about . Maybe the room you asked a little bit was 20 pounds , right , I think maybe that's funny . But yeah , go ahead . The question is how do you go ?

from the first , number one , right , subconscious , which we don't really care about , something . Then we realize it's a problem , then we care about it , then we become , we're bringing to the conscious awareness . Right Now , mike is very conscious of what he eats , mike is very conscious of how he exercises and how he carries himself .

Does it understood ?

Yeah , yeah .

Okay .

So I guess we talked about this a little bit yesterday , but I guess yeah , that's like you're asking when is that shift happen , right , mm-hmm ?

So it would be like in this case with the weight thing and be what is it at 20 pounds , at 30 pounds , 40 pounds ?

Oh , I don't think I don't think it's a matter of a number on a scale . It's a matter we're talking about your conscious shift where you no longer identify with that person that used to be , or you no longer identify with that behavior that you used to do and now you no longer . The praise doesn't come to you .

You don't hear the praise . If there is praise , because you are , it Okay . And when the praise does happen , it almost comes by surprise . Right , yeah , and anticipation .

Yeah , well , I mean , I think to me at least , it sounds like it just depends on what you had set out to do to begin with . Okay , right , okay , like , if you set out to lose 50 pounds and you lost 50 pounds , and people are giving you praise and you're saying , um , yeah , like I accomplished something , well , I mean , you did Right .

Well , like you wouldn't um if you went out for the identity change right .

If you went for what .

If you went out and tried to become a different person , you said you know you wouldn't have those kinds of feelings when someone complimented oh , well , yeah , because you have an um push , I guess , like what you uh set out to accomplish , right , if you ? um , okay , so we .

But it . But it can be done in different ways .

I don't think the temp here is to understand this in such a way where it's a random occurrence . We're trying to understand that in such a way that it's targeted .

Well , for it to be targeted , you would have to have a targeted desire or goal to begin with yeah , and that's what we're talking about . Yeah , and if you said that my goal is just to lose 50 pounds , then the tip , that's where it ends . That's where it starts and ends .

Yes , that's good . It's good to bring that up .

If you lost the weight and you don't have more energy and you're not doing more things , what ?

are we talking ?

about . Then what are we talking about ?

Mike , when you were getting the praises , how did it make you feel ?

Well , I generally don't like the praises . You don't like them , I don't like , uh , I don't like them and I usually like make a joke about it . Okay , you know , yeah , like I try not to make it too seriously . Okay , cause I don't want to also inflate my own ego .

Cool . I and I I 100% agree with you .

But what are they ? What are you not ?

really doing . Hold on one second . Uh , I'm not okay , okay , good .

Now I was going to say that like then . Then what's stopping you from having a deeper conversation is to say I'm like , hey , like , hey , like , hold your praises here , hold your horses here , because I'm actually going after something else , starting that conversation .

No , but what's what's wrong with them giving ? Giving like a , praise it for it , Like they're , they're just calling it a Zeriz , though , right .

Uh , not always the thing is . Again , um sure they are calling it for what it is . Hey , like you lost weight right . Yeah , yeah , like , like the thing is . Okay .

But , that's not what I set out to do no , no , I know , but they're , they're like they're . They're . They're remembering Mike one way , seeing him another way , and they're making a judgment call as to , like , what their impression is of what they see and what they're observing . And they're just making a well , I'm not sure if that's a problem , though .

But maybe the way that they choose to see it , um is like as a part of a social trend and you're sort of part of this thing .

This is very good point , tom , that I was going to go there too .

Yeah , but it's , yeah , that it's again like , hey , like you need .

Like , when I was coming to the gym this whole time and that even lose 20 or 30 pounds , right ? Uh , you didn't say anything to me .

The times when , maybe , I smiled Like good job for being here at the gym .

Yeah , yeah , a good point , right , like why are you telling me this now ?

Well , because they see a change and they think it's a notable change .

Why is it that we praise change ? But also , people lose weight if they get in sick too right , that's right , and like if you go on through a cancer or something , people lose weight .

So then yes , so then you should be like , oh , why are we making assumption ?

Yeah , like , why are we making assumption off of that ? Like , oh , you lost weight , good job .

Well , I mean , if they're saying that they believe that he physically looks better , then like that's their like , that that's what they see and that's what they're complimenting .

Ideally , everything that should be positive on paper should be taken positive .

They're not like saying that , like , like oh , you know what the question then has to be around .

Should we be giving praise in the first place ?

Well like .

I think that's the two different things . Okay , okay , okay , I'm going to expand it . Should we be giving praise without knowing the details ? Right , because if I knew details ? Right , like my good shit on losing weight , right To me , like giving them this , it's like it's shooting him in the foot , like this is not what we're going for .

Well , I think it's just like people are going to see their observations . They're going to make their assumptions of what's going on . I think it's up to the individual to process it properly . Well , yeah , to process it properly , to understand what's going on .

Okay , like this person sees that , like the new name is 50 pounds here , and now they're seeing me 50 pounds , but then again we're again making the burden on the person who's interpreting it , which is , I agree with , sure , because they're the conscious individuals .

Kind of ugly . You know this is a mess what we're talking about here .

Look , I'm not going to give them a praise , Say hey , good job , Michael . I'm losing weight because I know what we're trying to lose . We're trying to lose pride , we're trying to lose ego . Oh , I see . Yeah , I guess this is what I'm going for . Yeah , this is what we're going for the weight is the easy part , bro .

And who's this person here who's like low energy and trying to tell you , you know , with the losing of the weight is the easy part . The weight of the weight is that you did good , get on a treadmill , eat less .

That's very easy Losing of the ego and pride , arrogance and all the other things that we're talking about that's holding us away from being happy , is the actual weight .

Yeah , but it's also like , if you're talking about losing pride , arrogance or like that , Then it becomes a test .

Okay , fine , I like it . What it's a test ? Then it's a test .

It's a test which I agree with For that person . Yeah .

Well , yeah , but what I'm saying is that like that person is getting , like that person is like at a gym , right , and they're being complimented that .

Oh , the setting works and they're setting work working out .

Yeah , you just don't see what losing weight has to do with , for example , losing pride or arrogance or ego .

The thing is I went to numbers because it really depends For me . I can go to the gym for I don't know 15 days and really start to shred weight fast . So 5 , 10 pounds is like a fun , the light , easy , quick change for me .

That really makes you feel like- . Let's get back to our original question . How do these things become second nature , right when we used to think about them and it's in the forefront of our awareness ?

But they only become- . The way I'm thinking about it is I have a problem figuring out how to do something that I'm not sure if these are controllable things , oh there you go , that kind of way .

I think it's a very good question .

If you about it , you about it , that's it .

Okay , go go .

There's no like this is a good- . If that's who you are , that is who you are Right . And there's not yeah , but how do you get to ?

that point , that that's who you are . Yeah , because a lot of people get there , but they don't stay there . Well , no .

Or they're not there . They're not that person , then no .

Yeah , but it feels exactly like . It Feels exactly like what People feel , like there are where the places they want to be or where they were set out to be .

Well , they can feel that way , but if they're not , they're not . That's what I'm saying . Is that , like for it to become second nature , you actually have to become what you set ?

out to be . And how do you become that ? How do you become that it's second nature , by doing it Well .

so there's no way to know how to become second nature . You just become the thing that you set out to be , and by default you get it to be second nature . So you're saying it's magic . No , so second nature is the effect of what you become .

Okay , and how do you become that ?

Well , you take the . I mean , it depends on like you take the steps necessary to do what you set out to do .

Okay , so what ? So how does that look ?

I see you wouldn't be affected by those kind of stuff If you were , if it was second nature to you to be about yourself and be unaffected by , you know , drama creators or something or anything like that . You know if you can continue your journey . The way I look at this is the choice .

You have to first . It's like a conscious effort , like , hey , I want to lose weight , right , or I want to become healthy , or I want to do whatever . You have to initially have to make the conscious effort to do things . You have to , like you know , pay attention , because obviously you were living unconsciously right that that the place you're currently in .

see , I'm not sure if that like like exists in that kind of way ? Okay , okay , so look , I think something becoming second nature is a very conscious state that like is realized , like you realized , into that kind of state .

So I'm asking how do you realize into that state ?

Well , you actually become what you set out to be .

How did you become from being very skinny totally and be able to run suicides at the gym and then into being overweight and not being able to do the same thing ?

Um , how , how did that happen yeah ?

Um , or did it ever happen ?

Well , what ? What I mean , I guess , did it happen or not ? Yeah it did happen .

Right , you know what I'm talking about , right ? Yeah , you know .

I'm very specific about the identity that you used to be , which you always talk about , right To the identity that we have now right , yeah , well , there , there , there's a lot of things that happen Like , uh , I guess my priorities on different things change Priorities , my eating habits change , your eating habits change .

There's a lot of variables . Yeah , okay . Yeah , but but but so . So yeah , would you say that you were conscious or not really conscious about all those variables playing out the way they're playing out , in order for you to finally get the result that you're in now ?

Um , probably a combination of both .

Really , yeah , if you were to weight it on a percentage scale , how many of them were subconscious versus the other ones that were conscious ? Mm-hmm . Was this a subconscious journey , or I mean I ?

knew that I was like , my eating habits were poor and that my activity levels were low and then my stress levels were .

You were doing it consciously .

Uh oh , in the moment , like when you're eating , overeating or over anything exercising , in the moment you don't feel it afterwards when you have the pain , sure .

But was it a conscious effort to say you know what I'm going to eat unhealthy now and overeat ?

Oh no , no , I mean , that was that , that wasn't . But . But like what ? What was transpiring like made conscious sense to me .

But that's like after the fact , after , after you were reflecting on it .

Because you had the pain to tell you like , uh , hey , like , what did you just do to me ?

Yeah , I mean I don't know . I mean like I definitely did not say , like hey , this one I'm gonna set out to do , and then when , and did it yeah see , that's the thing , right Like now .

Picture about the stuff that you're doing now .

Yeah .

Right , like the stuff that we're trying to do now . Right , yeah , let's just say exercise and stretching and eating right , being mindful , stuff , like that . This is a conscious effort or a subconscious effort .

It's a conscious effort .

It's a conscious effort . Okay , now , where are we trying to go with this conscious effort ? So back to a subconscious effort or more conscious effort .

I guess , in the way that you're speaking about it now , a subconscious effort .

Yeah , yeah , I think ultimately right . What we're trying to do is install in all of us habits that are good habits for us , right . They're gonna serve us . That's not gonna not serve us , right . And we want it to be on a subconscious level , absolutely why ? Because we want it to be what Automatic .

Maybe less arrogant .

Oh , wait , wait , oh get there . Oh Thompson .

You know what I'm saying . What are you trying to do ? You're trying to be always conscious about every decision you make and always paranoid the way you are right now . No no , no , no . You just live your life right and eating to be just a byproduct of life , like breathing . Yeah , oh , I ate . Good , I have other things to take care of . Right ?

That's pretty good right now , Dude , I have to admit also when I hear the McDonald's word around here , I want to go with you guys because , you guys are my friends and getting excited about this .

Yeah , there has to be time , because you also do this thing where you punish yourself and you have guilt trips and all this other stuff . So doing something like fast food is exciting .

Don't try to explain it . It's probably an experiment . That's how it works For me specifically For you .

This is specifically how this works , not just for you , because but it's not a recent habit .

No , it's not a recent habit , but I will say at the gym , it is more subconscious for me now to continue going Subconscious .

See how good he is at this , tom , then help us out .

He's just subconscious , less than a month ?

No , I'm not trying to be tricky . What do you mean , Tom ? Yeah , let's hear it . Let's hear it , Tom . Yeah , you have to help us out to get .

How do you get to ? I do have a little story . Two weeks to enlightenment , tom , I do have a little story .

I realized something yesterday . I was at the gym yesterday and I was swimming and as a kid I had to swim because I had this hip problem and I couldn't do regular sports . Like first few years in school , I sat in the gym on the side and I watched . I couldn't do sports .

You attributed that to eating a foul . By the way , feeling sick .

Hold on , hold on . Let me finish here . What I'm trying to say is that that kind of feeling lets me know that something is off . It's not that I'm sick .

Yeah , and you attributed to eating a foul with me .

Yeah , hold on , hold on . We went to the gym after a foul , and that's what you're saying .

And that's what you're saying , and you told me after we were in this we're after sauna and the next day you're like this is how I felt when I was swimming and you attributed to a foul . Oh yes , yes , I agree with that . That's why you kept asking me like , how do I feel after a foul ?

It's very possible , and not only that , but when .

I was eating the food I also . Now you're attributing to something else .

I was also anxious , because Mike said hold on T don't take it so far .

Go easy on me .

Go easy my brother .

This is true . Yeah , you're going , you guys are from the same region Austin .

When we ate that food .

I was also thinking about what Mike said when we ate the food . I was also thinking about why Mike didn't want to go , because last time he went there he got sick and he was attributing it . He was attributing his night before going out . Wow yo .

Actually I could have went there , I just didn't want to go that day . I have no problem going there , but you understand what just happened . He interpreted exactly what I said and that made him sick . That's right .

That's a good example for Toly that you wanted to give him an example .

So , Mike , so you never got sick from this place .

I got sick Boy wait wait . Me and Mike ate the same stuff . I had a screwdriver on . We got a fucking bug somewhere , bro .

I got a bug somewhere .

It is possible that you got it from there , but , like bugs take .

according to doctor friend of ours , bugs take at least 24 hours to come out .

So you can't get sick the same night . How the hell do you get sick of it ? I see Acid right .

Yeah , acid that we have inside of us . How ?

does it arrive ? They must have some kind of a .

Yeah , here's a quick thing . What if we are always overeating ? That's why it does that . If we didn't overeat , then there's enough acid to process the whole thing .

Maybe you just have so much food that it can't get through it .

It can't get through it . It's like , you know , like if you put a big piece of meatball inside of microwave right in the middle is going to be called yeah , hi , yeah .

I'm hungry , toly , you hungry , no .

There actually is a meal of mine that he can have .

Yeah , that's right . Yeah , that's nice of you , yeah it's so sweet .

No , I'm serious , it's in the fridge . It's in the fridge , enjoy it yeah in the fridge it's pasta . Poke holes through it and put in the microwave for two minutes . Yeah it's good . It's good . There's pasta with meat on it . It's very good . Don't give it to each other .

Don't give it to each other . It's good , trust me , he's going to eat the whole thing . He's going to love it .

Yeah , he used to eat worse .

Just poke holes in the plastic . He used to eat worms , bro , yeah , with a fork , or he ?

used to eat worms , he looked at me like , and when he used to go fawking .

He used to eat the worms .

He said I didn't catch any fish , I might as well eat these worms . All right , look , second nature . We see the examples of it that it's constantly happening to us in a good way , in a bad way , whatever it is . But the form was a little bit in the gray area . How do we find it ?

I was asking totally , but I think there is some kind of roadmap that you can follow to get to the place . There's prerequisites that you need to line up with in order to get to that .

I guess the ultimate question that we're asking is that how does a conscious action become a subconscious habit ? Yeah Right , that's it .

Yeah , I think it's like your conscious effort when it gets to the point of identity change .

Right , but how do you get to the point what you're saying when it gets to the point of identity change ?

Like when you've solidified that conscious action . But when do you solidify ? How do you solidify ? So solidification , I think , works differently , probably for all people .

I agree with you . You know , like for , for example , eldar , for him , abs come easy . For me to set abs as a goal would be . You know , it wouldn't be very smart for me because I don't care , I just I personally .

What A health . Not like you , that should be easy .

No , that that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm actually comfortable with my health . I'm comfortable with doing things . Doing things , you know , sort of rationally , moderately . And we're avoiding avoiding the unhealthy behaviors that plagued my life earlier .

I think Tom is saying a lot . It's not about me , I'm not trying to hijack . He's also saying absolutely nothing .

I'm not trying to hijack this , because he doesn't know what he's saying .

What I'm saying is he's saying good stuff , but he doesn't know what he's saying . I know what I'm saying . He can't give him credit for it .

What I'm saying here is I wash like abs for me , like like being low , low fat or whatever , and with abs showing and everything . It would not . It would not contribute to my , it would actually it would . It would get in the way of , it would take away from your humility . No , it would take away from the goals that yes , why does the convincing happen ?

you . When do we become it ? When do we reincarnate ?

That's what I'm saying . When do we kill our egos ? That's what I'm asking .

Yeah , I think when , like when , when you have a conscious effort that is solidified for you as an individual , then I think it just becomes so what does look ? What did it look like to be ?

solidified .

There's no definition .

Okay . What does that look like ? Like you ? Agreed with me yesterday .

You agreed with me yesterday and said hey , Eldar , I agree . These small actions , these small steps is what I need . To focus on the goals that I've made right now , and nothing else . Like you said that's it . What is that ? What is that transition between not knowing and being doubtful to now saying that's it and then only focusing and performing off that ?

Well , well , well , no , right now it's like a , like a level of focus match with like , understanding , awareness , right , oh , awareness . But then when you do it enough , I think it becomes who you are , which I think is different for all people , which is why I don't think that like it can just be like , like , like .

But there , but nonetheless , you agree that there is a transformational point .

There is a transformational point , but I think it's different for everybody and it's a solidification of your identity .

Some people's identities will take longer to solidify and some , but nonetheless there's reasons for it right . Like there's certain things reasons why one will solidify that faster than the other . Right , they could be more angry or more egotistical .

Well , that that's a case . That's what I was just saying .

It is the case , but if a person is going to follow this certain steps , and they're going to follow it the way it's supposed to be followed , is there a guideline ? No , there is no guide . No , so you don't think there's any prerequisites or anything like that in order to achieve this transformation .

It just kind of happens by chance .

No , it's not by chance . It's not by chance .

It's just no , we don't have the ability to maybe map out all the variables .

For example , if , like , there's a difference between , for example , like someone who's like a master , who's like sharpening his skills right , and there's an identity change for example that might happen there , where someone becomes better at something that they're already good at , right , and then there's a difference between somebody who's a beginner who's trying to do

I think we , like the way I'm hearing it is like just because a person is a master in something does not make him a master in everything . I'm not sure that will apply that just because he's good like , for example I use Alder's example .

The example would then be would would be when Alder identified this and how fast he was able to make the change and solidify that thing for himself . That would be the example .

So then he would do it faster than most people you're saying .

I tend to think that I would say that if Alder like not real realizes , but like if he gets to a point where something is highlighted and he understands it and it's and it's known as truth , I would say that he would have a a much easier time having that thing become second nature with his level of like focus than people who are not so smart or not not ,

So what's the requirement for the person to reach that level of realization that you're saying ? That Alder realized ? Okay , what do you mean by level of requirement for reaching Like is there something that that that is required in order to be able to realize as fast for some people than others . Well , yes , yeah .

Like there's a lot of things like how , how much ego do you have , right ? Your relationship , for example , with like hearing the truth , your relationship with like being able to have a conversation with somebody , like your understanding of how things work , like there . There there's to me like all of those things factor in into .

Yeah , yeah , I think that was a good observation .

God damn it , then you're wrong completely . He says that .

That's crap . Yeah , like that , so like that . That's what I'm saying . Is that like I don't think that there is like a guide in something becoming so like subconscious , on just like a general level ?

Well , I think the things you mentioned is , in a way , it's an , it is a guide . Well , it's like to become humble , right ?

Yeah , but you can't just say somebody like hey here's like . Here's a 10 like task checklist . Once you accomplish the last task , you're humble , right ?

You have to , as the requirement that you have , to become humble .

Okay , yeah , humble , so it sounds like we need to break something ?

Yeah being well , you have to break . So like a perception ? Well , no , not even a perception , okay . So it's like the way I view it . Is that like there's no numerical measure right now to our egos , for example ? Right , but our egos are on different levels , right , I would say ? Is that factual ?

You have totally with everything . You're fucking mumbling right now . You're answering the question . Sorry , I was looking at your Rolex . You're answering the fucking question . You just answered the question and that's , I think , very helpful to somebody who's looking , for example , to see what the thresholds are .

Can you ?

bring that microphone closer . It was weird .

It was weird . I was stressing about something really badly . Me and Kai were stressing about something that happened in the business and my son comes up to me and he says Daddy , I love you . And they all walk out of the house . I go into what do you call it ? My pantry and I just start bawling out Like crying .

Now we know why you came here for the second time , and at that moment no , and at that moment tell their attacks at you Clear as day .

Calm , no stress , nothing really bothers , even now when , like still , things happen in business all the time my stress levels compared to what they used to be like 5% out of 100 .

That's why it was very interesting , because you told me that in the car and I was like , wow , you've changed right , but there was a catalyst . You had a catalyst .

Yeah , yeah , I was like I don't know what to do . I never asked for help for anybody , but if anybody there , just give me the help . I don't know if my mind cleared , but since then everything is calm in my mind . I'm just calm Like nothing bothers me , like he used to be . I'm not like this anymore . I'm not jittery or anything .

That's the thing again . See , it's like a mysterious thing .

It's a very mysterious thing . But I don't even know what it was . But it's not , it was also a desperation . At that moment , I was like I cannot be like that anymore around my kids . I cannot . You felt really bad inside .

But maybe you also had some moments leading up to where you kind of experienced this On small levels , where you were kind of like fed up , exhausted , you were asking for help , but that was like when it really blew up and you said , yo , that's it . Now I finally give up , enough is enough .

I always figured it out . There's no point of stressing about it , I'm not dead , it's just going to figure it out , like worrying about something you can't control . There's nothing you can do about it , just deal with it , but finally you got the solidification of that knowledge . Yeah , I knew about it before , but I never .

So we're trying to figure out what makes that thing like that's it Bind it and now you're different Actually .

I think it has to be some kind of chemical thing in your brain , like when you basically tell it . Basically it's like a self-meditation , your program itself . I went through that before . Things were happening bad and I was stressing out all the time Relationship Stress and I was stressing out .

This was very fast , it lasted maybe like 30 minutes , but maybe you thought so it was fast , but it was really fast .

It could have taken years . I felt very calm like that Because when corona happened , everybody started going crazy . Everybody was like yo is the end of the world . I was like I love it , I come down right away . For that time , when the corona was around , I was calm as it could be .

A lot of people talk about this type of experience , with it completely switched and changed the careers and became better people .

I guess you get tired of the way .

Divorced if they needed to divorce right .

Tired of the way you are . You can see it's not changing , like a switch in your brain . I think it's a self-preservation thing , maybe .

That's interesting .

You had to go crazy , Lose yourself kill yourself or whatever . Or you protect yourself and your brain protects itself by switching some kind of chemical in the brain .

But then you almost talking about determinism , where everything is already determined . Our fate , our destiny is determined . It's written and as much as you try to fuck yourself up right now , you won't be able to do it to a point where you feel it .

Yeah , like they say , what's supposed to happen is going to happen no matter what you do , so just let it go with it , let it be , don't fight it . I've noticed many times in my life I fought it and at the end it still came out fucked up , no matter what I did . If it was determined already it's going to happen , don't fight it .

Alright , so what would you suggest to a person who's actually looking to make an actual change about themselves , about their life , about their character ? What should they do ? I think people should take time to reflect . We're so stuck .

Yeah because , we're so stuck I mean at least me , I'm so stuck . Everything is like this On everyday life no stop , I don't have time to sit down and think .

So what happens during the reflection period that actually you're suggesting ?

I think you talk to yourself and you figure out what the problem is and your brain has the way to protect itself . To change the chemical structure in the brain , to maybe make Chemical structure in the brain , yes , make you feel different than what you were .

She's not buying it , yeah .

Why your brain produces so many endorphins . You could produce anything you want in your brain . You could feel good , bad . That's all chemical based .

Yeah .

I think that's .

Are you buying it or not ? The idea that what ? I'm not sure what chemicals are in the brain for it . Yeah , for example , when you make changes , I'm guessing there is stuff that's going on . Yeah , I definitely don't buy that it's magical , that it's a one moment thing . I definitely think that it's more of a process .

It's not a magic .

You could control . A lot of things happen up until that point of like .

Yeah , but bad things could be bad things that happen until that point there are people who are happy and then the solution to become not happy , because chemical imbalance is also a very important thing . Maybe I finally became chemically balanced in my brain , which I didn't have before , like when I was always , you know .

But are you willing to just have that as an explanation to your life and your changes ?

It's not empowering , no , but when you reflect , you tell your mind to change itself .

I think reflections probably has a big effect on this kind of stuff . Yeah , I just don't think it's a by mere chance that your brain one day decided you know , what ?

let's make the chemicals correct . Yeah , I feel like If there's something you want to change about yourself , you could set out to do that , but then there's work that you need to do to .

The interesting part about Serge's question or example , is that he was kind of like , maybe going towards this change for so long and he wasn't conscious about it this whole time that when it finally happened , he almost attributing it to a mere chance . Because he wasn't conscious about that . This is where he was headed , you know .

So when he finally maybe gave in for that tired , maybe when he asked for help , that was his way of giving up on fighting , and then he started to pay attention , going forward .

Okay , so we have to maybe zoom in a little bit more on that little moment of giving up finally and seeing it differently .

Well , I think again , yeah , that's the aligning of those things Like to me , those are the major things , like the ego , the ability to connect with truth . What were the other things ? Ego , ability to connect with truth , pride , yeah , yeah , pride , maybe , humility , and I think that was it right .

I agree with you . I think you have to get there . I think you have to get there .

Because everyone's different . What you're saying is that you need to earn it .

Yeah , yeah , yeah , you gotta get there . Yeah , what does that look like ?

Surge . You obviously were very subconscious in the way you were going about these things and then one day it broke . You're like what the fuck ? And you had to see it in your kid's eyes , right ? Is this a point in the eyes that he's crying ? You're crying , right . You're like yo , what am I doing ? What's important ?

about . I think the tough thing is with at least the way I understand it and from what I've heard from other parents , you have no idea what happens when you have a child and like this thing this child is , like , it represents something within you that you can't explain . It's a love that's so strong that you never knew before .

I didn't love my kid right away .

Thank you for being honest .

I told you Kai has the same thing . Like some people say , they cry in the hospital . And for months I didn't like , I don't know what to do with myself , like , what is this ? You know , creature .

That's what I'm talking about . Those processes , I think , are a little bit like , maybe less clear to us if we don't know really what it's like .

Well , tom , he's given a very specific example that actually counteracts your example .

It's so new to me and I'm like I don't know , I had no feelings right . I knew my son but maybe had to do with my stress levels because you know stressful things having a new child .

You weren't able to embrace it , maybe slowly , yeah .

And then , as he developed mentally and he could smile and more and more talk and talk . Now , yes , I love him so much that I can't live without him . And then when I found out my wife is pregnant with another kid , I was like how am I going to separate this love , like spread it between two kids ? I couldn't understand it .

And people told me that my friend has six kids and he's like I have that with the dogs and I had the same experience , but with dogs only .

But I couldn't believe it . I was like I was like , do you want another kid ? I said I do not want another kid , I only want one , because I love him so much I want to give him all the attention . And when I had two , like in the epiphany happened , it was like okay , it's like natural , your brain just goes okay , separates it Separates it .

Sick I mean I can't track it back either , because , as much as I love Archie , when Penny came about I didn't like her because of certain things , obviously , and then she grew on me and then when that switch happened , like you said , it's like , oh shit , my brain separated and now I love Penny 100% and I love Archie 100% , and it's a crazy phenomenon .

I had my first dog , my second dog . I couldn't understand that . To me , dogs were everything right . My dog was my baby and I loved my dog more than anybody . I remember you . I would kill for my dog , but now that I have the kids , when I look at the dogs , they're no longer the supreme .

You never had a dog with the kids .

That's the only difference .

I had Lola for so many years , but it was different . Lola was one moment of your time , and then your kids were a different moment .

So if the kids later on want a dog , it'll be interesting to see how that works . Until now , we don't want one , just a lot of work .

I wonder if part of the process is sticking with the decisions that you make . You know you have certain responsibilities and you question yourself , maybe as a new parent or as a new dog owner or something . Right , they're two different things , but what I'm saying is like you have to like , stay , you have to stand behind the decisions .

Sometimes you have to just stop and let everything you gotta . Stop life like all this other shit and concentrate on your family , like your kids , whatever it is your dog , and give it some time .

Does that satisfy the question you had ?

We're so used to the phones and all this technology that we forget to .

There's a very specific thing that happens to us when you come to this realization of like finally , the straw that broke the camel's back . I think we're trying to understand the makeup of the straw Right , like what finally happened , that search finally transformed right , or totally transformed from one to another , or Mike wants another meat , one to another right .

I think , yeah , it's hard to . Nobody's journey to that point is gonna be the same , but the point I think we can identify right , we understand that it exists , it's there for everyone . Does it come with age ? I ?

think that might be one of the variables that he's talking about . Time is one of those variables .

Because I look at Kai as dead . That guy's calm as a freaking person could be . He really Super calm and supposedly he told me he was not coming like that , but he's always calm . Yeah .

He's always he's pretty chill .

Very chill , very calm . I mean he does lose his cool , but I've never seen it . I mean I've seen it , I'm lying , but he gets frustrated easily , but he's always very calm and whenever he starts he just works at it and just grinds it down to there he's able to focus in . I cannot focus like that . Well , what do ?

you mean , this is it . This is where the calm has come from .

It's because he has the ability to stay in that moment for long periods of time Because I used to be able to , before all this technology , like before the first time I played a video game , I could do that for a minute .

But even I think you can get that calm from your video game if you wanted to . But the world of video gaming is not as simple as it looks like .

Well , technology in general , phones and everything . I see him going . He puts his phone on the side and for the next six hours , he's digging the hole my dad's like this too .

I would check my phone a thousand times before I even got to digging the hole and then I was like it's very slowly , I would preserve the ability to extract something from the small things that we don't value anymore .

I've been trying to aim at that , where I tried to find the time . I'm literally just do it and go at it , try to put the phone down because there's holes in the back of my head . I got to pick up , I got to check what are the clients call . What is this call ? What is this emergency ? It's like nonstop .

So are we saying anything , guys ?

Yeah , I mean for me the way that I'm looking at it , because what you're asking for is you're asking for when does the change happen ? And almost the way that this the click I want to click . Yes , see , the click is . It's referred to in a magical way almost , but then you want a non-magic answer .

Because I want you to identify very specific realizations that attribute to that thing .

Yeah , well , it's hard to do , I agree , because it's over time . Yeah , but I feel like my answer is the , like , the combining of all those things . Yeah , I agree with you . What happens ? Right , your ego has to be lowered to a certain thing .

What are we saying ? I think he's right . I'm sorry , mike , but I think he's right . We're doing the process in justice by trying to make it a click . It's not a fucking click . No , it's not a turning on a switch .

Well , that's what I was going to say .

Do you know what this guy just said ? Which part ?

is mind blowing .

This is a epiphany like epiphany for me right now . Really Tell me which part of this is epiphany for you and what Mike just said about making a roadmap and laying out a philosophy for yourself . Bro , just fucking clear the level of the playing field right here .

What do you think we're doing here ?

For Mike . Hold on , I just have to give him credit .

That's . This sounds like the most humble version of Mike I've ever heard it sounds like you've been absent for a very long time my friend and the person that you're sitting across from you , it's no longer Mike , it's somebody else and you ought to get to know him .

Uh-huh .

So I think , yeah , those things that Sock said , that we reference a lot , they slip in my mind now , but one of those things is very important is like I know that I know nothing . If you adapt that philosophy and there's a difference between Serge actually believing in that , what he said , what he experienced , and he actually genuinely asked for help .

So you're saying that Serge is a person who only learns through a lot of pain ?

If we're taking what Serge said to be the truth . If this is the experience and he actually has changed , You're saying that he's really , really , really , really , really dumb .

He's looking at us . He's like he's getting ready . Which hand should I punch you in the face with ? You know what I mean ? Yeah , this one or that one ? He could punch him , that guy right there . No , no , but yeah you're right .

But I think that's what it is , and I don't think we can ever predict when . That moment when we say yo , I'm a fucking idiot , I don't know , help me please . I'm like no , I got this shit , I'll figure it out . I'm not going to ask him before I help him , I'm going to do it on my own . Fuck everybody . You know that attitude .

You know what ?

And if you adapt this thing right In the more and more areas of your life , yeah , this will get you to the place where you want to be in more areas of your life . You want to be healthy . Adapt this thing , say yo , I want to be healthy , but I don't know how . What does that look like ? I want to lose weight so I can be healthy .

So would you say that the statement of I know that I know nothing is the only statement or gateway to heaven .

Absolutely , I think so , yeah . And now , if you can apply this like this as your , let's just say , it's going to sound cliche , but as the guiding principle of philosophy in life . How about a religion ?

Yeah .

If you adopt this as your religion and you really like when , when you adopt it . I'm not saying like oh yeah , like I actually mean it like Serge meant it .

I know that I know nothing is my religion at that moment , for some reason after it happened , I felt like somebody was on my side . Oh yeah , because somebody was helping me . Like , yeah , like somebody was like . I felt like I was a team with somebody , like I was not by myself anymore . Wow , like I always felt .

that feeling of aloneness with your ego but it was crazy .

It was so I haven't had to do it since my son was born . It was so instant , oh shit . It was so instant Like I went from crying to no crime , feel amazing happy , and it's just like somebody just brushed it off of me .

You became a believer .

I don't know yet . Are you going to church after this ? I'm not going to church . I , when I was little , I believed in God a lot and I always prayed every single day and I talked to him , but I never went to church because I believed . If you believe in God , it's in you .

I guess I figured out that . I can figure it out myself . Yeah , and that's how the rhythm talking you know , what I mean , yeah , so I told you something or no productive . I think that one thing that we came conclusion to is the fact that the process is the switch Right .

Well , I think it's paradoxical right . It's contradictory , Contradictory .

Right , I go over there right now and I turn it into a switch and then the light's going to go on . Right , so it's not going to go on through the process . Right , it's a long process that takes a time in order to solidify and understand and our realizations and humbling . You know these other experiences that make up the switch .

Another way of correcting me from wrong , but another way of saying it it's not destination , it's the journey . We always focus on this destination where we're trying to go , not so much focus on how we're trying to get there . But that's actually the most important part is how you journey life , yeah . You know yeah . Or this thing that you're trying to solve .

Yeah , that's a very good point . So so can I get one ? Yeah , Tom , this is when I asked the question . Go ahead , elder , but I'm also going to make a statement .

I'm going to start shutting people down . That was not there yet . Keep your mouth shut . I'm fucking keeping these .

So do we have more clarity of what we talked about ? Is it bringing us more comfort on the journeys that we're currently on Totally ? Is it bringing you more comfort that you are actually on the right journey , that the switch will be within the process that you're on and that , and that brings you some kind of peace ? Does it , or am I jumping to conclusion ?

Well , I mean like , I feel like , because you're a thoughtful kid , I feel like I .

Generally .

I mean , like I feel , like I didn't , I understand that , like those principles that I was saying that I'd need to tune in to them , right For me to accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish , like I feel like that's almost like a factual to me , but does it bring me peace ?

I mean Knowing that you are part of that process right now and that that process some one day is actually ignite or make a switch in your mind , that you're no longer that same person that you are right now , that you're a better version of yourself , like Serge described .

Well , yeah , yeah , I mean like that's the goal , I think is to have that kind of change . But usually what brings me peace is Like I feel like peace is not like For me , like I'm in peace when I have a recognized state of peace and for me , like when I recognize what like that kind of state like it's , and when is that so ?

Oh , and like the things .

Simultaneously yeah , like when we were on that walk and I was breaking up all those . You know that , like I feel like I'm doing good , good , good on this , but you were bringing in doubts yeah , bringing in doubt and issues and then we were able to have that conversation and I was able to understand it right . After that , I felt that peace .

After that .

Because , yeah , because like there was things that was unclear , and then when things became clear and then I had the level of focus to kind of understand what you were saying and I felt that and like I felt that I understood it . And when I did in that moment , that's when I felt peaceful . Like afterwards Is it the last thing ?

Okay , I don't know if that makes sense it probably does , but I don't have time to understand it yet . Mike , no , tom no , thank God .

Yeah , yeah , I'm not sure like the word peace . I'm not sure how to interpret it properly , you know , yeah , I'm not sure . Like what is peace ? Is that like ? Yeah , how do I , how do I understand that ? Like you're in a peaceful state , yeah , what is that ?

Well , yeah , that's what I'm saying . My definition of peace is like , like I'm at peace when I have a moment of understanding and . I'm in like chaos and like like I don't know what's the opposite of it .

It sounds almost sounds like a relief for the moment .

Yeah .

It doesn't feel like you close the chapter on , like a significant story of your life .

Oh yeah , but then you're talking about like , for example let me give you a thing right . Yeah .

Let me give you the thing that you can understand To be retired , yeah , okay , to be retired totally Everywhere , wherever that is right Money , fame , power , what other things back in that comes with this ? You know what I mean ? Whatever Recognition and all this other shit .

And I think he's not , yeah . So I would say that , within that area , like I would interpret that as like he has like a focused understanding of what's going on , okay , in those things , fully , fully , fully . And if he has that and he's maintaining it , yes , yes , he's at peace with the people of peace .

Yeah , maybe he's not a piece of revenge .

Let's say , someone goes out and they can take over and knocks Islam out and says , like you know , everything that that guy's that could be his father taught him was all BS . Like these guys are pussies . Yeah , well , that make him feel a particular type of way .

We saw him get out of pocket with the Connor A little bit . Yeah , a little bit , when he started , I mean obviously he's human being .

Yeah , yeah , yeah , that's what I'm saying . So he's prone to certain things . Right , yeah , push the right button , push the right button , that's what I'm saying , like that was probably a lapse in a particular focus .

Yes , Right , and peace Right . So like , yeah , to me peace is a moment of understanding and if you could extend that moment and have that , like you know , longer term focus on it , you probably develop in that area a particular level of calmness . Yeah , Right .

Okay , right , sustained Right , amount of focus , and you know , peace gives you that calmness . That's peace , right yeah .

And that could be in all different like spheres or like yeah .

Different , different , different places . Yeah .

Yeah , maybe an example of that . Maybe it'd be for me . I mean , this is probably not not like a big thing , but it had up in today . There's maybe a thing about it . Like I was speaking on the phone today with that customer that was saying all kinds of crazy shit . How I didn't tell her about this . Yeah yeah yeah .

This like kind of like you know and then she pat me in the back , was saying that I'm like a the best customer service in Europe .

Yeah , yeah , yeah , like sincere person , but like she was just saying like stupid and nasty things and like the most ignorant things to me ever yeah Right and like , like , for example , in that moment , like I felt that , like I know I didn't do this . Like . I know this is not what happened .

The formation of character to the next level .

I know that she doesn't . She just doesn't understand what's going on . Yeah , she's trying to tell me that she can't send me a file , and an Excel file that she's looking at an Excel .

Yeah , seeing things through what they are .

Yeah , yeah , yeah , because of that .

You was able to apply the right ?

Yeah , you could act in a very like peaceful , calm way , yeah , even though someone's trying to stir your hive crazy yeah . Because they're just saying crazy shit . Yeah , you know .

So , Mike , what are you thinking ?

I understand what he's saying . Yeah , I understand . Now , what am I thinking ?

I think we did a pretty good job on it . Yeah . On trying to pinpoint or trying to liberate some of our thoughts about this thing , about the click of finally becoming second nature . Right , it's a pretty serious phenomenon , it's an interesting one , it's fascinating .

Yeah , I feel like anything that anyone wants to become second nature or get to that level .

I know I think you struggle with this point .

No , I've been , I've been discovering is there yet . I've been discovering , like , what I want to do with my life and what I love .

Everything that you say to us do we apply to a story that you read one at one point or another ?

No , no , this specifically . Yes , he says this , this . He says that you know . You know , people talk about what their routines are like . For example , if it's , I don't know , a fighter or a writer , okay , that sounds nice , doesn't ? It has a little rhyme I love you . He says .

Tommy , you lost that . You used to be a little arrogant .

You used to be a little ant , okay , and now you're trying to scream with the elephants .

I'm I'm look it's , it's actually it's . It's interesting to me like no , Thomas Marlin .

Cheeto Vera said in the press conference you can't wipe your ass before you take a shit .

Like let's say , let's say today you had a bad day at work , right , you can't ?

you're losing your shit . Let's say . Let's say today you have a . Have you ever went to the bathroom and before you took a shit ?

He might try it .

What I'm saying is what if you just , you know , throw , you know like what if you basically give up ? You know what if you give up because one little bad thing happens in one part of your life ? I think that's kind of like . That's what I was facing , that's what . That's what I dealt with .

You're arrogantly running right Tom Huh . You're arrogantly running .

I didn't know what I was aiming for . I knew I was good at it , but I didn't really know what I was aiming for . And look I , I sit where I am today , happier , I'm not , I'm not saying , tom , you're developing a little bit of character .

Thank you , I appreciate that because you're fighting back with Toly . It's a show something . Does it mean that you're right ? No , he has no idea , but you develop in character . He might have seen a little bit of the character .

Might be bad or good he might have seen the jury still out on it , he might have seen like a little inch of the devil earlier , but now he's seeing all of it .

The jury's not how he's sitting .

Yeah , listen Toly , you already have anything to say about this , About what ?

About what Tom just said . I told you I got lost when he started the statements , when he started his statement by saying that he used to be a little arrogant .

He used to be a little arrogant .

You're looking at him like he is just going to confirm everything you say . But if he doesn't , you're fucked .

If you said that , I have to confirm it because it's generally an arrogant statement .

You just again with the hand bro .

What you are unbelievable . You're saying I'm paying him to agree with me .

I'm asking you to be like a dignified , virtuous person for a moment .

I'm trying to be he is . You want to receive that . You want to receive that . Prevent it , oh my God .

Here is your voice .

You have to give it . You have to be able to give it to the seated Tom , despite of what you feel right now .

I haven't said what am I feeling . What do you think I'm feeling ? I don't care what you feel .

But despite of what you're saying , I'm going to say a general statement here .

It's not that . It's neither false or true . It's just what . It is , okay , despite of what you feel right now , tom . He's already regretting what he's fucking saying , tom , despite of what you're feeling or what you're seeing transpiring right now and how you feel about Tom .

I'm not looking out for myself .

That's what I'm saying . Totally , you are ours .

Okay , I'll take it and our revenue goals are increasing . You're by your .

You are ours , tom . It doesn't matter what anybody says . You know what I'm saying . We will defend you In this circle . Sometimes we won't , but overall we will defend you from the world .

Protect you against the world .

Yes , we're protecting you from the world , not in here , but from the outside world . Yes , from the outside world .

We will scold you here , it's our payment for your technique , Guys .

I want it to be very , very clear , right now that my journey is actually being is more clear to me daily . My journey is something .

We're happy for that . We're happy about that , you know .

I take a look at my journey and it's we're not going to believe it , but we're happy .

We're happy for you .

Yeah , we're not going to take your words for it , but we're happy that this is what you're experiencing . If this is good for you , you know what I mean .

Yeah , whether it is or not , we're just happy .

We're happy and whatever it is . Like I said , Tom , whatever you're feeling , you're still ours , Good or bad . You know what I'm saying ? You're ours .

And we will call the point is that you know the point is that you are talking about .

You have immunity Pursuing something . Listen , tom , you have immunity from the world , right , but not from us . But not from us , which is good , like the world is over there . It's a , it's a pressing . You know what I mean . Yeah , but we got you . Okay so we got you . We have your best interests .

Yeah , and you should . You should find give up your final words and allow me to just wrap it up yeah .

If you want to , you can Um , but I think you already did so , mike .

Yeah what are you saying , man ? I'm saying that , I'm saying that . Um , in this thing , I think there is a thing , I guess um , if you'd like to , whatever goals you have set out to achieve for yourself , right yeah . And if they're goals that are rooted in living a good life , living a virtuous life , the prerequisite is to line up with the truth , right ?

So , but if you wanted to succeed , for vanity , you will .

You can't see it for vanity , but um , you'll never be happy .

Okay , that's different you always said that's a different conversation .

Yeah , You'll never be happy with , with life , and I think it's important to line up with the truth in whatever you do . So why ? Why ? Yeah , um , why is this thing so important to you ? To me , it's definitely very important because , uh , I'd like to live a happy life and the happiness is directly correlated with this .

Yeah , one one . One thing I was also just thinking about is , I think that there's there's . There's also like um , like when we were talking about peace I was just thinking about , there's also like , uh , stages or levels of peace .

I agree with that . So did you develop a state of peace for this stuff ?

For what stuff ?

Some of the stresses that you had 100% .

I had a really bad one . Actually it passed 24 hours . Oh really , it was the worst one , probably in 10 years , and I handle it before . I would have probably lost my mind this time . I couldn't believe it happened , but Can you share ?

can you share the example , If it's not too ?

No , it's something in my business . Okay , it's just something that was taken away from me by a big corporation without them caring about me at all , and I couldn't believe that they could do it with such ease , without even telling me about it .

Whatever ?

Like it just happened and they wrote me an email like yeah , we're doing this to you . And I said let me talk to somebody . I'm spending . I'm spending thousands of dollars a year on your platform . Give me a real person to speak to .

Wow .

That's what they told me . I said there's no such a thing . You cannot feel pain through messaging and the person goes . The best thing you could do is I share . Right there it was a person talking and speaking to me and he goes to me . The best thing you could do is wait for the email back .

Wow , you have good stuff , so we have to like bet against those companies .

Yeah , like I would get $100 or $200 saying , oh , they just lost the lawsuit and we found your name in there and I said , okay , it's cool . Obviously my stress is not worth $100 . It's worth thousands of dollars to me .

Wow .

You know . So I was like yo , this is crazy . But because because I was in that piece , you didn't really I couldn't believe it happened , but it bothered me like it would before , Like the stress levels were none , Like it was like maybe 5% , Like I said before , Did you surprise yourself ?

Did you surprise yourself that you reacted the way you did , or ?

I think , no , no , I feel confident now about it . Okay , like when the stress comes in , yeah , I was like I'm going to get through it . I got this , it's not going to stop me . Okay , you know , it's not going to , it's not going to affect my life , because you know , in terms of but was it surprising ? Yeah , it's like I get . Yeah .

Like you , surprised yourself , like , oh wow , I can deal with this .

Yeah , like it's like it's like a backstop , because you're so confident about it that you're like I was like , oh , it's cool that I'm getting through it , you know , like easier than a lot easier than I would before .

So Mike , did you have the same thing when you were dealing with your parents stuff ?

Yeah , yeah , in .

The beginning yeah like oh shoot like I surprised myself that I reacted the way I did .

Yeah , yeah , yeah , definitely , when it became more second nature you want to use that ? Yeah , it definitely was surprising . Like , oh sure , I handled that well . Like I'm handling it without thinking , I just you know okay , yeah .

Hmm , cool Instant karma . That's good In a good way .

But I think it's again . It took time , a lot of time , raising your hand saying I don't know making mistakes falling getting up , keep trying . You know being , I guess yeah .

Yeah , now , this time I laughed . I was like it's just another test for me . Yeah , like I'll get over this test and there'll be another test , and there'll be another test , but if I'm going to keep acting , like I used to act or feel like that , so like I will not make it through life . Yeah , it's just crazy . You're right . So like You're right . Yeah .

Okay , Well listen , second nature solved , right , Tom ?

Okay , yeah , I'm taking it . You're taking it .

Any final thoughts ? Let's go with search . Any final thoughts on second nature and how to develop second nature and , being almost on autopilot , on things that we've tried to accomplish and be good at , like stress management , for example . I have no clue no clue Okay . Mike .

Any tips to what ? What was it Well ?

second nature . Like you know , what are your thoughts on second nature and anything else that we talked about that ? How does this come about ? Like when do we solidify the second nature ? Right , like we talked about it ?

I think everybody has a different time , yeah . Some people do it in 30, . Some people do it in 50s and 60s . Yeah , yeah , no , it's definitely . Some people do it maybe earlier , I don't know , but I think Tom has to do it , take it I don't know , maybe , how many times you suffer until you get there , everyone has its own trajectory .

Yeah , everybody has a threshold .

Yeah , yeah , how far Mm-hmm , you're going to take it ? My brother's a piece . I see him as a piece of the fucking time .

Yeah .

No matter what .

He chooses life , and that's it .

He chooses life and he's stuck to it and I think he's as happy as he could be . He's calm , yeah , nothing bothers him . Shit , you know .

Yeah , there's just births on for me , bro .

Okay , holy moly , what do you got ? You're becoming a piece , huh Tom that you're ours . You're timeless . Your art will never be , actualized in real reality but nonetheless you'll be happy what I'm saying is Very liberating .

Stop it , hold on . You're going to have to say that again . What ?

To what I said , that you realize that you're timeless , that even though you feel like an artist , you will never actualize any art and that will be okay with you .

You want to explain how that ?

works . You're finally going to be at peace with this identity and you're going to liberate yourself .

All right . How do those words taste in your mouth ?

Listen , I think they're pretty good for you , man . This is what I would wish for you , man , but you know your arrogance , man , doesn't allow me to actualize this , Tom .

You're dropping things over there , dude , that's fine , okay , I mean , what I'm saying is so he hasn't been enlightened yet .

He's the only unenlightened person here .

You say he might be very arrogant yeah .

No , or we could be on the cusp of something huge , oh yeah .

Listen , we're trying , tom , we're trying , but you're resisting hard , okay , I mean okay .

You're a tough cookie to crack . No , I have to think about it a little bit . I have to think about it a little bit , but he's a good egg . This whole thing about peace has got me wondering something .

All right , we'll get back to you . So yeah , totally Um . Can you find a thoughts on this actualization of our second nature , of our good habits becoming automated ?

Yeah , I mean , I think there it's like um , what one to actually ?

Yeah , it's like a tool in your tool bag , but you don't have to think about how to actually just whip it out .

Yeah , yeah , it became in you . It's almost like the opposite of my movie references , but , like in the Harry Potter films , the main bad guy , voldemort , he commits what they say is the biggest sin for wizards or whatever . He takes a piece of his soul and he splits it among a bunch of items .

You know yeah .

So , okay that's all I got .

Anyone else . No , you me Listen . I think just knowing the fact that this , how this works , is a fucking , is a crazy phenomenon , yeah .

That's what .

I'm saying it's a crazy phenomenon , right , if you can raise enough awareness to yourself that this is how this works , you can literally accomplish anything , which can be dangerous , depending on the choices you make . Yeah , right , but you can apply this method .

I had a question that I was thinking about non-relation to this , which is like a separate question . I was wondering about . So , for example , like , are like , so , like those things that I was bringing up , are they called like principles , or are they called different things or like is there another word for them ? What things Like ? What would you call like ?

Yeah , virtues or anti-virtues .

Like what , yeah , like .

Well , yeah , I guess defining an ego is very difficult .

No well , not defining an ego , but like I'm blanketing these things as calling them like principles Like these are all like almost like pillars of like who you are and what makes you up .

Yeah , yeah , yeah , your makeup , your makeup , yeah .

Right , okay , and like attributes , maybe attributes , yeah . My question is have all attributes have been already discovered ? Like , has all truth and all attributes been discovered About humans ?

Like , like , for example , like maybe discovered , yes , but studied long enough and thoroughly probably not .

Yeah , maybe the discovery , because , right , like we hear about all of these like , for example , like ancient , like you know , I think they're Greek , right , Like Greek philosophers and all these different things , you know that Socrates said , like Aristotle said , plato said , and like they , basically they existed , I guess , on Earth , like way before we did .

Yeah , we're talking about , you know , two , three thousand years ago .

Yeah , so . So that's what I'm saying , like in the last , like two or three thousand years right ? Have all of these concepts that we like understand today , or or , or like , or , or , just like the truth of who we are today ?

Yeah , I would say no , no , no , no . I would say no that we did not discover all the facets that makes us up who we are . Okay , we're very vast .

Well , if you look even to like Anastasia stuff a lot of stuff that she talks about and things that we can do you know a lot of people . It's definitely a lot less common general knowledge versus like Socrates .

But you know . No , no , I mean I , I understand that , like some people might know , like more more , like some concepts more and those .

I think maybe if we , if humanity , reaches a higher level , like you know , there may be much higher things that you're talking about that we can experience , but I'm not sure I mean I think there's probably a list of traits , yeah .

Yeah , I think , I think , yeah there are definitely personality traits that have been listed . Different , different traits of humans that have been listed .

Like . My question is how like and maybe there is like like a literature , I guess , behind this , but like how was ego discovered and how was it coined ?

For example , like where , the where was I identified ?

I find like yeah like yo , that is ego , because right now we can talk about it and it's very like vivid and we can really describe it and we can understand it right and communicate it and we get it right , Like at one point these things existed in us , right yeah , but they were not coined yet or talked about yet or understood yet . So , so , so , like .

Yeah , but you can , but you can , yeah , right , and everybody can look at it and do yeah and feel it yeah .

So , like one question I have again is like , are there other things that are currently experiencing or existing that we have not yet coined or identified or have had conversations about ? Yeah , that's one question , and the second one is like around how did like those things get discovered ? Like you know , you got to show compassion to this person .

Well , okay , that's a very good question for next topic , I think totally . Thank you . So you want me to try to tackle a little bit . Give you some of it before you go home , or no ? You ?

don't have to I don't have to Cool .

Yeah , I was going to talk about pain , right , and I'd be able to identify pain .

Oh yeah , pain is good yeah .

All right , cool , you see it , yeah , okay .

But , like to me , it's so crazy that someone was able to identify like ego , for example , like that's so crazy .

Yeah , I think that we were able to communicate that like hey , how do you feel right now ? Oh yeah , you're right , Not so good . Well , how do you feel right now ? Oh yeah , this is pretty good . What are you doing ? You know what I mean Are you smiling or being compassionate ?

Yeah , that makes you so good , the whole pointing process of that to me is like crazy .

Yeah , I think that we went through that process .

How was a human able to be like yo you ?

have a big ego . I'm trying to explain to you , but I'm listening . Yeah , no , no , no , we can definitely do it .

What you're saying , but like to me , like that's like a crazy thing .

It is a phenomenon or ?

like the realization that like compassion is needed . Yeah Right , like what happened before humans had compassion .

Yeah .

It was just action , and either reward or punishment right . There was no in between , and maybe someone one day realized that , like hey , compassion is needed towards ignorance , or it's like you ?

know . That's why I think that stuff like that . I think through philosophy or at least the practice of asking questions and trying to find out what the truth is . We could find out the intricacies of these old details to see whether or not it's really serving us . Yeah , pleasure , or it's not . Pain , right , that's it .

Yeah , it's also funny . I feel like a lot of the preconceived notions or like the beliefs around philosophy revolve around that , like it's not for practical life , it's just like for theorizing .

Yeah , you know , yeah , and I think that's a big misconception . Yeah , yeah , philosophy , I think , is the pillar to live in a good life .

Yeah .

Like it's the most important thing . Yeah , it's to discuss life is to find out what's actually going on , and I think a lot of people are doing it without actually understanding that they're doing it .

Yeah , they're just doing it with a very poor , just their association , or like . When they hear that word they're like ah , like .

Yeah , no , yeah , it's stigma . There's a stigma around the world , yeah .

But again there was also a stigma very long around , like mental health and stuff like that .

Huh , that's what you got for us . Wow , you're trying to set everybody up . No , no , no .

We'll wrap up with that by a huge put why , why ?