110. Humility Versus Arrogance in the Quest for Personal Growth

On this week's episode . Arrogance has a social dynamic stance in it that allows us to prove a point almost like it's an act . As soon as we're not in a social setting . It just becomes more just ignorance .

Whatever I have within me , I have overlooked . Now I'm going outside of myself to have to go to the store to buy that thing in order to try to get that thing that is already inside of me . That's right .

Gods are actually envious of people because being mortal creates meaningful meaning , existing . Wow , I just exist , forever in time and , yeah , I have anything , ever , nothing is .

Alright guys . Today's topic is arrogance . What about it , toly ? You have a pretty serious beef with it .

Well , yeah , I mean , I think it's a big probable .

Okay .

Yeah , I mean overall , I mean it's just a big issue , I think , for a lot of people . Why is it an issue ? Yeah , did you get a little bit more detailed ? Because it's like the like , one of the craziest , like contradictions to like mankind .

Really . Well , yeah , why do you use the word contradiction to ?

describe it Well , because the action that's being displayed is the opposite of reality . And why it's a huge issue is because the person is playing at the moment does not know that it's happening , yet it is affecting them in real time .

Wow , so you're saying that this is what arrogant behavior be a form of a dream , a state of a dream ?

Well , yeah , maybe like just being like . I mean , it's probably the state of being the most unaware imaginable asleep , yeah .

Wow . So arrogance of form of like , being pretentious , where , like , you're basically presenting a more important version of yourself , would that be in the same boat ? That's 100% part of it ?

I think yes , when you over inflating maybe your knowledge , your status , your power and all this other stuff right , almost to like to seem bigger than you are .

Yeah , right , yeah . And the moment of like acting it out . You're acting out as if you are 100% right , but you're , in many cases , 100% wrong , so overcompensating for whatever kind of weaknesses or insecurities that you have .

Well , it's not even over .

It's like it's not even overcompensating , it's just being under the wrong impression period . But don't you think it would come ?

as a result of not having that thing , or are you saying that ?

Well , yeah , but that person yeah , that person does not know that this is what they're doing in the moment of doing it .

So do you think somebody who's considered pretentious knows that ? And it's more kind of coming from a bad place ? Because when I hear pretentious I hear of like a negative connotation attached to that thing . When I hear arrogance , the way that you're describing it would be that person's not even aware . So they're like in La La Land .

Yeah , yeah , yeah yeah . In the state of being arrogant , you are unaware completely . You're under the wrong impression , but your behavior doesn't look like you're wrong .

So it's like a guess , a form of false self confidence in there as well . Well , when you're confident about something , but it's . You're not drawing from the truth , you're just drawing for some BS idea that you're made up , yeah , and you're oblivious to what that you're doing in combination with it .

So it's like the worst scenario , like imaginable for a person , but is it an accurate representation of what you actually believe , value and understand ? It sounds like it .

I don't necessarily view that person as being , let's say , bad , for example . Yeah , they just don't know what's going on and they're just acting out of what they think they know . So , like it's a very long trickle down effect that happens .

But I'm saying nonetheless , is it an accurate representation of their belief system and who they really are ?

Well , they may not really be the person that they're acting out Do they know that .

No , they cannot know that that they're doing this . See , this sounds like they don't know .

This like sounds somebody who's more delusional and is more of a liar than attached to confidence . Like I don't think you can say like false confidence .

Well , no , it's not a liar . The person does not know that this is what's happening .

So they're delusional then .

They're just under the wrong impression and , yes , you can say that it's delusion . Yes , you can . You can definitely separate the two . If you really know what reality is and the person is not living out in accordance to that reality , then yes , you can definitely say it's a delusion .

But wouldn't that person have to be like really awake to then understand that and come to that conclusion where no , I think that you are right now .

Retrospectively , has the have the ability to see that for what it is , you know ? But in the moment , I don't think the people , most of the time , you know , people don't see that within themselves that this is what's actually going on . They're dead set on what they believe .

Yeah , okay . How does one get into this thing of like being arrogant about ?

something . So there you go . That's a very good question , I think , and now and I proposed a challenge to you earlier , you did and I think that the reason why this happens in the first place , I think , is because of social dynamics . Remove totally a social dynamic , can you still practice arrogance as much as you can without social interaction .

Well , well , I did . I do think that social dynamics help like a build this by thinking and establish it . Yeah , I mean , I think it starts from when and we spoke about this before that people are uncomfortable with not knowing something . Sure , so because they're not comfortable with knowing something , they need to , they need to have their like , like .

Why would they do that ? Well , how does the person get to that point where they're just living in this , living out this , what you described ?

They get to a point where they feel like they're uncomfortable with not knowing something that that's where social dynamics also correct .

I think the motivating factor of not knowing right is the social dynamics . So , for example , if we talk about a topic here , and I really esteem everybody's opinion here , right , and I don't really know the topic , so I'll start making things up just because I esteem you guys , and you guys , like , will judge me if I don't know something about it , right ?

Socials ending with like you know , guys and girls , he's going to be right away viewed as like the coolest person because he he's going to have something to say about everything . He's the most knowledgeable . Yeah , right away people start like you could also in .

So yeah , so I think that the arrogance has a huge dependency on social environment . Remove that , yeah , I think it would make sense , right You're not going to have an arrogant conversation with yourself , and if you do do arrogant things right on your own life , the environment around you will quickly teach you otherwise .

Well , can you be arrogant on your own ? And it's not until somebody else points it out ? How Give me an example If you're acting that way , wouldn't you like ?

Give me an example where an individual is acting arrogantly of themselves within the setting without any individual present to observe that arrogance .

Where they're not being observed , because to me it's behavior based . So like , if that person is an arrogant person , I'm just thinking that that person , like their actions , whether they're in front of a person or not , would still be arrogant unless they're able to shut that thing on and off . How does that look like ?

No , no , no . I really think that arrogance has a social dynamic stance in it that allows us right to prove a point , almost like we put it up , it's an act right , but as soon as we it's just it could be . Just as soon as we're not in a social setting , it just becomes more just ignorance . Not arrogance , but more ignorance .

Okay , I think that's where my question was leading , because I'm thinking before you have a behavior in a social setting , it's initially a thought , right ? Like you have a stance or you know , you have a thought , and then that thought becomes a behavior .

Yes .

So I'm thinking okay , so if you remove the person from a social setting , that person still might have it be having these thinker no problem . So what if I am arrogant ? It just arrogantly , in my thoughts at home , for example .

I'm not sure if that's possible situation and I'm having no . I'm not sure if it's possible . Well , we talked about in the beginning how we defined arrogance , or we can look it up right . It's when you present like this importance about yourself that you know something that you know more than the other person . You know what I mean .

You know you think you're right , but you're you know you're not , then that's just ignorance .

Yeah , if you , for example , arrogantly , I don't know .

You can be arrogantly ignorant .

Yeah , so what's the difference between arrogance and ignorance ? Because I'm like literally picturing a person like talking to themselves in the mirror .

What ?

I was yeah , I think talking themselves up or something .

You know what I'm saying .

Oh no , that'll be wild Like a narcissist .

Yeah , yeah , that's a complete like yeah , I'm thinking of example of somebody on their own , because I'm thinking like , okay , social media , somebody posting to something is still kind of some kind of interaction .

If you're in the store , interaction like remove yeah . Yeah . Yeah , think about a person on the island . Right , put yourself on an island with no animals . No , no nothing , yeah .

Tom Hanks Castaway yes , okay .

Yes , that's a perfect example .

Can I be ignorant ?

I mean , can I be you could ?

be , ignorant .

But you cannot . Be arrogant is my thing .

I think they're they're they're related , right .

They are related yeah .

So what is your definition of ignorant versus arrogant ? What is the difference ?

I told you , ignorance leads to arrogance .

No , Well , you definitely need ignorance to have arrogance right , but you don't need to have arrogance to have ignorance .

Yeah .

Yeah .

Okay , correct .

So in that example , let's say I'm on an island by myself , right , until you know how can you be arrogant within that space ? Like he , he , he personified a volleyball where he was having interaction with it . So you're saying like once there's another kind of quote , unquote person , then an arrogance can be formed .

He can , for example , be very hung , a hungry , and he can eat something on the island that he that like would poison him , but he could just be ignorant to the fact that it's bad for him .

Yeah , so there's no arrogance because there's nobody observing him . So the observation , the the arrogance to me , my understanding would be it's built within the observation of another .

Yeah , this is what my thing is that as soon as you remove you speaking or talking , for example , in a social setting , and you start paying attention , you cannot display a form of arrogance . Think about that . Remove your speech from the social setting . You're just listening . How can you be arrogant ?

Now are you saying that ? I always think of that , that that study of when the scientist is studying like the Petri dish and they're , they're showing that when you actually look at it it's , it actually becomes a different form and it looks different , versus being on its own Correct .

This is what I'm saying .

That is what I'm saying .

Okay , that's where my head went , that's why I was asking Mike remember I asked you this question like how does that change the dynamic and arrogance actually change when nobody's actually paying attention or looking ?

Yeah , so I .

I think maybe it's a reverse thing , where you're , when you have the ability to focus on the craft or the truth itself , without any cameras , without any people you know observing you and stuff like that , you still kind of do what you need to be doing and that's focused on your craft .

Yeah , so what would that be ? An example of that would be what Somebody who's insecure Like if you're letting the camera influence you . In that example , are you an insecure person .

To a degree , yeah , 100% . Versus arrogant , versus focused , versus focused . Okay , or you could be arrogant . Some people can be arrogant , I think , still within the lens .

In trying to prove themselves .

Yeah , yeah , okay . So can we solve arrogance by just eliminating the social aspect of it ?

Well , I want to understand more why , like he said , it's definitely very . He's saying it's a very important thing . So I'd like to understand more . Why is it such an important thing that he's talking about saying that arrogance is very , very bad ? I like to understand it more . Like how is it so detrimental ? Because you're saying it's very bad , right Well ?

yeah , it's detrimental , because you basically create a world for yourself where you live life a very particular way that will hold you back from learning or learning back or hold you back from having relationships , or like it'll hold , like , like I mean , learning will probably happen .

So if you put it that way , then then arrogance just only becomes a result of wrong impressions . Well , it's a , it's a , um , oh , no , no , no no , I'm sorry , I'm going to add to it Wrong association . Hold on it's wrong impressions coupled with insecurity .

Well , yeah , yeah , it's , yeah , yeah , it's falsely , yeah , it's like ignorance paired with confidence . Right False confidence . Yeah , false confidence to create security . Yeah , false security we're getting closer , does it ?

come in this .

Yeah , no , no , no , no . It serves a very specific reason , but I think that's filling the void of a certain insecurity , like you said earlier .

Yeah . So there is the weakness that's initially there .

But the thing is , what's the reason for arrogance to form in the first place ?

Because , because there's a weakness built , you're building it on weakness . It can't be built from strength . But why ?

is it why ? Why ? Why arrogance ? Why arrogance has inherently built an attack in it ? Because it's an attack , right .

No , no , because you're attacking me or you . I feel like you're attacking me because I'm not open minded about being swayed in another direction . I'm so set on my belief system that you need to use this tool for this specific environment .

Yeah , I'm hitting you back .

Okay , you're you're yeah , but I don't think that you owe . I don't think every scenario is a response to like an attack .

No , no . But if you're , if you're an arrogant person , you're going to feel like you're attacked .

No , no , I think he might be right totally .

Yeah , no , but not always no , no , no , you have to because you're in your ego , you're not willing to get the truth in this moment . You're creating a shell around yourself and that shell to me would not be true to that person . I think he's right .

I think there is a defensive side to it .

No , I definitely think that there is , but I'm saying that I , I I don't think it needs to be a like , a direct response to a direct attack . It could come from an Instagram , but why would you need to ? Why would you ?

quick thing , don't ? Wouldn't you say that an arrogant person takes , takes things , tends to take things more personally ? Well , yeah , right , yeah for sure it has to go like it has hand in hand .

There's not a reasonable , arrogant person .

You cannot be reasonable , and that's . I can see that .

I don't see this example .

Well , yeah , of course . Yeah because , because to be arrogant you need to be ignorant .

Yeah , that's what I'm saying In that moment . Whatever conversation you're having , if that other person who's observing you is giving some kind of advice or pointing out a question , that if that person took it well and said , oh , I didn't think of it like that , that's a reasonable person , not an arrogant person . How about this question ?

and can an arrogant person still be within truth when he's speaking and half truth when he's speaking , but still be arrogant ?

That'll be a really bad sign , because he's well no because because in order well , he's delusional right .

No , in order to have truth .

I'm sorry , like you , have to humble like in order to like learn and grow and have truth . You need to be humble . You need to like accept that you're like .

You need to humble yourself in order to be able to do that Sure , ideally , but I'm not sure if that always works .

The definition of being arrogant is having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities . Yeah , you know what ?

You put yourself up higher . There's a very funny like thing that's happening that me , you and Tolian Phil and whoever else watching you see , there's a really huge arrogance playing out on stage right now . This huge fight that we're about to watch tomorrow . Yeah right , this kid is coming across , matt , arrogantly talking crazy , you know .

No , but don't you think the outcome of the fight has nothing to do with his arrogance ?

It might not , but he might be sounds arrogant , but he might be confident and believing that that , with the skills that he has , is actually gonna give him the result that he's looking for .

Or the result might convince him that he was right .

But arrogance might be the tool for him to get to where he wants to be but the person that he becomes as a result of it is what he has to deal with , but it might get him to the result that he wants .

The thing is , he may win that fight and still be arrogant , and that would probably prolong his journey of , you know , being more arrogant .

Yeah , it might make it worse and reinforce his and that's maybe that's what he needs .

If that happens , then he , he is an arrogant right .

No , no , he is arrogant . Still how ? Because he was over-inflating . Whatever he said .

No , but if he won , no , but if he did exactly what he did . He's not over-inflating anything . Yes , correct . He's just telling you what's going to happen .

Yeah , like he said . He said he's gonna knock him out in first round . Yeah , if this happens what done now ?

He just said what's going to happen and it happened ? What if he just ? Got lucky .

What would actually happen then ? You can't prove that .

The people that are having opinions on him are saying that he's way off then , like they were under the wrong impression , right , yeah , so then it would be a matter of like how do you measure somebody's true confidence within themselves ?

Do you know that before the fight and then after the fight , do you know that he was coming from a place of true confidence or was he being arrogant ? How would you ? Determine how that person is actually believing themselves or not . So after that fight , let's say he was arrogant , right ?

You would have to have a very personal conversation with him , I would have to have a very personal conversation .

Well , no , in relationship probably .

Well , no , I don't think that you like for something to be deemed as arrogant . There needs to be like a start to finish in in that scenario .

Well , that's why it stops after the fight , and then you will know you can re-measure it , yeah , but you can't say that he's arrogant first .

You can't yeah , because the hypothesis is still out and we still need to test it , right ? Yeah , like he's saying like if in this realm he's saying , look , this is what's gonna happen and this is how I'm gonna do it , we're like , wait , he's being arrogant , but we don't know yet , right ?

And it does happen where people like these fights happen and someone's like yeah , what I'm gonna do is this I'm gonna make him tired for the first two , three rounds and then round four or five . When he's completely done , I'm gonna take him to deep water , right , and I'm gonna choke him out like Khabib or Islam say the same thing every fight .

Yes and a lot of times they actually do it , yeah , but they actually like predict what's going on .

No , I understand I understand .

So what I'm saying is that this guy right now know , because this is probably his biggest test- yes , it is . So let's say this right , everything leading up to this point . He could be delusional and it's kind of serving him right , but all of a sudden , maybe he beats the biggest guy to me . How I look at it is that it could be arrogant .

You can call him like a douchebag , right , like , because they're like yo . If you're gonna win , and you know you're gonna win him , you could just be , you know , like graceful , humble or whatever .

right Agreed , but you can't call him arrogant . Yeah . So then to me it's how do you , how do you get into that person and then label them that ? Now I don't know how to do this .

No , no , no . There has to be a start and finish to that exact scenario . To deem it arrogant .

If he gets washed right , if Alex washes him completely , we will know that this statements were arrogant . So , going forward , if he continues to make those statements , we're gonna say this person is arrogant .

Yeah , but do you think that the result is the thing , or do you think that it let's say he does win .

It is the thing . It has to be within that framework . It is the thing . That's the equation .

Yeah , but let's say he does win right , and then you just can go back ? Are you automatically absolving him from being not being ignorant , from from being arrogant ? Because the way that I look at it is that he could have been lying to himself and it served him . He could have been arrogant .

Let's say he wins Well no that , that would have been just ignorant .

Okay , so . So then we're going back to the original example of that person is by himself he's being ignorant . But what about when he interacts with the crowd and he's being asked ? Isn't there an arrogance in that ?

Well , no , he's not doing arrogance . No , no , no , there's no arrogance .

Yeah , that's the thing . We're not . Yet we can't even call him arrogant , yet .

Yeah , because there's not a start to finish that .

Because we actually don't know . We have to see . The thing is , I guess the ignorance is there's a discrepancy versus of the truth and what's true , what's false , right , and then there's the arrogance where the truth and the false already has been decided and everything's out on the table . You still go on the wrong side .

Yeah , I think arrogance is like a combination of emotions , feelings and facts mixed together , or ignorance . I'm not sure if it carries the same type of like a emotional and feeling level .

Yeah , I just the way that I'm thinking about it is that we talked about another person being involved and there's an audience , and I'm thinking of a press conference , and I'm thinking him talking like this and the fact that it did not happen yet .

Yeah , because it did not happen yet . You cannot call it arrogance or or ignorant behavior . And even if it , even if he does go out there and he loses in first round , he could just be ignorant . He thought that he was level 100 and he was level 3 . That I agree , yeah .

But he was just operating out of level 3 .

Okay , like there's . This happens in basketball at the time .

Okay , wait so stick on that example . Let's say , this guy was on a two lost street , right , and he started talking like this and then he won . He'd have to probably be coming from a place of ignorance , almost guaranteed to talk like this , correct ?

Calling him arrogant is arrogant .

Is arrogant , so it's a premature yes , arrogant response to something that does not have a result , and if he's wrong , he could just be ignorant . Yeah , but I think the way that you you phrase it is right . I think somebody would then say what can I call him ?

But I think that yeah , but I think that , like , if you start defining the word jerk off on an asshole , you probably have a hard time even pinning him on that as well . I think ignorance probably will be the most sure , sure , sure way of defining something like this .

But if you know what I'm saying , like so imagine nobody spoke like that anymore , right ?

like , yeah , you're not an asshole . But like , hey , you just ignorant , right ? It's almost like it's extending an arm of acceptance . Yeah , but versus judgment .

No , but if he wins the LDR , then that means that he didn't have ignorance and that means that his arrogance is now absolved . So what ? What can you call somebody like this just himself ? Do you think anybody actually acts like that ? That's coming from a strong , true place . There has to be weakness built into this .

probably is yeah , but I don't know him well enough to be able to speak on that . You know what I'm saying . Like I would have to sit down and have an actual conversation face to face and get get an understanding of the character .

Yeah , like the way that I look at McGregor too , like , as much as I liked him , that personality is coming from like you know . To me it's like as a result of how you grew up and how you believe . I think there's a seed of like I'm not good enough and I have to overcompensate for who I am , and now it's served him and made him a big star .

Yeah , yeah , for sure .

And you can say , hey , you absolve him of arrogance , maybe he was ignorant a bit . Or you can call him like a douchebag , jerk off , whatever . But I think with him , I watch him and I'm like , I like him , I'm drawn to him , but like he's definitely not sure of himself . Yeah , at all times .

Yeah , that's the sense that I get with having a conversation with him 100% , especially when he punches an old man in the face .

Yeah . So I think that that kind of middle ground place is interesting , because if this guy does pay off , there's no ignorance there , there's no arrogance , we're just absolving him . He's just him , he's just himself . I can't look at that guy and just say I haven't listened to him yet , so I don't know .

Okay , so I don't know , but that's how I look at these okay yeah , it's also hard when you're watching the stuff right , like if you're rooting for one guy . Yeah , you see the other guy , you're more inclined to call him an asshole because you have your own horse in a race well that I'm going to separate your own horse yeah .

So you may call him a jerk off , but I'll say actually , you know , he's just an entertainer and he's being very smart here yeah , I think that the more you dig into these types of stories , the more you find out that you find yourself kind of in the middle , yeah , and maybe it's leaning a certain type of way .

That's why we're trying to define the truth , and that is why .

That is why we watch the sport , and when the truth comes out , it's in the ring . Yeah , yes , this is why I like it . Somebody's gonna get punched in the face . They can potentially die in the shit . You know what I mean . Have real serious complications , retire from the shit , like all the stuff . I think that's where the truth kind of shines through .

versus how much beating can you take from life ?

yeah , but even if he loses , he may not necessarily get humbled , for sure no , but depends how you lose well , no , not even that well , sure , but no , but like you know , you can , you can lose .

Yeah , which I agree .

Yeah , and the only way to know that , obviously is to have a really personal conversations and relationships with those people to know whether or not , okay , this person is really arrogant and ignorant , you know , and they need to be humbled yeah , yeah yeah okay , it's probably a little bit difficult .

Is it safe to say life always humbles you . Oh , life will always be , no matter what or no uh , it would time .

Only if you need to be humbled , only if you're open to it . No , no , no see , that's the thing .

Like I think it's actually like it's just as justice you don't think you have to be open to be humbled ? Don't you think that if you have a really big ego and exterior that you can push it off for a long time ?

you would have to you wouldn't if you were to ask anybody with that question .

so that , so that person learned the hard way so that person who's basically breaking their fall with , with the big ego and big personality , you're saying that they're still getting humbled , but they're just not showing it . But there's not showing the the results , so they're again hiding it .

you never know , I guess , which , which , what is it ? They say , the thing , the straw that breaks the camel's back ? Yeah , he may get humbled to a certain point in this exchange , but not fully humbled where he needs to be . So he means you beat up five , ten more times , you know .

I think , yeah , well , well , like I associate how humbling with having the ability to connect why something's happening so where my head goes is those examples of like the , those like documentaries that you watch .

Like the sociopath , like killer people who , like they have no remorse of anything that they do . They go to jail , they're ready to get the death penalty and like they go in like hey , like you know , I'm glad I did all that I did and they almost become a celebrity where they want to be recognized , they want to be caught .

So in that example , yeah , okay , in that example , yeah , what's happening , and I think this is an example for Mike Tyson , okay , it's a Mike Tyson example , sure , okay , where he didn't live such a good life , yeah , right , and he knew this , he acknowledged this , okay , and now he turned his life around , right .

now GMT . He did psychedelics and that's a different path here's a different path , correct ?

okay , he's sinned so much , right , publicly , mm-hmm , that so many people will continue to admire of this side , the bad side , mm-hmm , mike Tyson the savage , yeah , okay , so the new Mike Tyson is now the rehab one , the nice one , the good one , right , it's constantly needs to be reminded by this identity right here , and that is a forever sin that you have

So what's your question ? So what I'm saying is that it where , where in this example for me , where is this guy getting humbled ?

he's getting death penalty , bro , so the whole yeah he's never gonna get humbled that's what I'm saying .

So there would be me that game so there is the humbling in jail .

I see the way the individuals , but he's getting praised what ?

who by sick ?

so so let me this example right people exactly you're not gonna praise him .

Yeah , others not gonna praise him .

Who's praise ? Who's praise him ? Yeah , it doesn't , it doesn't matter , it's sick people . No , no , no , no , no , no , no that's the hell , bro .

That's the hell . I'm telling you about that . The individuals that are ignorant are praising Mike Tyson for the ignorance , so you're saying in that , try to bring him back .

But I'm saying where , where's the humbling in that ?

I understand as a hell in the well the humbling the humbling is the fact that this person whoever you're talking about yeah , wanted to do this terrorize people , whatever the fuck he was into . Right , he wanted to do this for a very long time . Oh yeah , he did not want to get caught . He got caught .

So let me say this so in some of these examples , what they , what they've found , is , from like a psychological standpoint , some of these people actually do want to get caught , because what happens is when they go to jail they do get the recognition and people get to go watch them on television so yeah so , but in that where's the humbling in me ?

or like a what well , where is the ? How long do they want to be praised for ? Forever , or for just a moment of time ?

or or like or like a suicide bomber yeah , like they know they're going to die . Yeah , I want to inflict as much pain like yeah , they're probably never gonna get humbled of it .

Right , that's what I'm saying is where is the humbling start ?

Yours example is a lot less , because you gotta understand that sure , they're caught right , but every day , for example , you don't have free will . Okay , let's tell you oh you , you want to sleep . You sleep at 9 pm . You want to eat ? You eat at 6 am . Okay , you want to take a shit . This is when this is open okay , so now we watch you .

So a non-caught version of him in that example .

So , like that person who's deranged , who is good enough , who doesn't get caught , yeah , okay so this is why I'm so , then I don't think this is the only one time that you live you also don't know the personal .

How did the people again going to ? Yeah , no , I just think I like humbling .

Yeah , no , no , I know but , he's an apple is a very good example no , but I think to me the only way to get like for the actual act of humbling to happen is that there needs to be a physical action where something is happening to you , to you right where you're .

I spilled my drink on my sweater , right ? Yeah , if you're trying to be cute right now , you know I'm saying you just can't you have your fucking school like the act of the actual act of humbling it's , it's .

It's a moment in time where you are , let's just say they like it's . It's like a moment in time where you're wrong , right , you're actually wrong and you don't have a . You don't have any reasons in your mind as to why , or you're wrong and you realize that it's because of you . Okay , how ?

about this humbling , being humbled . Right is also contingent to society , a social factor . How about that ? Yes or no ?

I don't know if it's contingent towards a social factor . Most of the time it's a dynamic . So you could be , for example , wrong , right , and then , like I said , like Ilya Taporia , right , he could .

So yeah , they're in the process , but during the process , right Like there's a rock bottom I would call humbling is probably rock bottom .

You can turn it , you're talking about , like there's a difference between like , a like , for example , a total humbling on , for example , a particular subject . But the actual act of being humbled is a moment to moment experience and it has to be . It has to be where you are . You don't have a reason as to why this happens .

All those moments that you spoke about until you get to that place , humbled , it's still . You're being humbled , whether you recognize it or not yes If it's for a second , you feel like you're suffering , you're being humbled .

Well , not , not , let's define it . Let's define humbled . How about that ?

Yeah , no , no , for example . I'll give you an example . And I don't think it has to be suffering Like , I don't think it has to be tied to there . If he goes in there loses first round .

So with the unibomber he never experienced . So what is all this ?

stuff called . Well give me a scenario .

No , go back to the example with the unibomber who never we agree that he never gets humbled right . He's just gonna the unibomber guy , whoever you were talking about the bomb , the suicide , suicide bomber , whatever right .

Yeah , so that guy is going to then just die , and he's to me there you go , there you go , there you go , there you go . See , the assumption of just die , yeah , is an assumption that you know that he's exalted from everything and on this earth , right . That's an assumption that he's not gonna pay for his sins .

No , no , no , I think that's like something out of all this . That's like out of our like comprehension .

That's like God , listen to me .

No , no , no , no , no we're talking about the human element of being humbled .

Okay , if we go around the room right now , right , and we say that where we were arrogant and we got humbled , is that a good thing or a bad thing ? If we go around the room , most people will answer what Good , there you go . Yeah , we have the ability in this life to get humbled . Yeah , and because what ?

Where's that guy getting ?

No , no , no , no , no . He's not getting humbled in this lifetime . Think about that . Yeah , he didn't have the opportunity to get humbled in his lifetime . He has to go wherever the fuck he goes and nobody really knows , because nobody came back and told us , like yo , we went , we came back this how the shit looks ? He's going to the unknown fucking place .

Yeah , he might come back as a tumbleweed Do you understand this , do you understand ? We don't know .

We don't know , but that's what I meant .

So we're agreeing . This is the no . No .

I'm explaining to you . That is a bad thing . I , we both agree , but I was coming up with . That is the humbling thing , bro . It's because he's has not deserved yet to even be humbled . Yeah , Because we as people , even if we arrogant , we we have the chance to get humbled .

This is crazy here to get humbled . Yes , he just took his own life . Yes , yes .

He didn't have the balls , he didn't get . He didn't have the balls .

He's 100% right , he didn't go in the cage , like in UFC , to get humbled .

Yes , yes I get it , but that's my whole point when I was bringing up an example . No , this is very bad bro , I was bringing up an example of something that doesn't get humbled . This is the example . It's even worse , yeah .

That's even worse . Yeah , but yeah , in that example he doesn't get humbled .

That's your example . No , no , no , no . But what does he get ? Can you tell me ? Fuck , you don't know . And that motherfucker is scary to me , oh yeah , but is it not ? Scary to you .

But we're in a green seat , doesn't get humble . No , no , no , no we mean in that scenario .

I'd rather get humbled , bro . I'd rather get humbled yeah .

No , no , no that example .

he does not get humbled , but he gave up the most At that time . Well , you both think he had it . He gave up his life .

He gave up his life .

He gave up his chance .

bro , that's the most valuable thing , you have in your life in health , your life . Think about it . You could just say that what happened was even worse .

Yeah , we can argue the severity of it , but we're saying we're talking about arrogance , so we're talking about being humbled .

I think this is the most arrogant person to ever live . Sure , but that is what he did .

So the most arrogant person an example of the most arrogant person in the world is the person who does not give themselves the ability to be humbled .

That's right . Yeah , yeah , that's just one of those levels we're at agreeance . Yeah , definitely .

I'm going to agreeance on the whole thing , but the point was we found an example that you cannot be humbled , and that is the most dangerous person in the world .

Yeah , because , like I said , if we were to take a survey around the room to be humbled , this is a good thing .

Yeah , we're talking about moral integrity . We're talking about , like , our belief system . We're trying to remove what's bad in us .

Yeah , Ego , pride and all this other crap . I agree that's holding us away from being happy . But as soon as we get humbled , which is a process of becoming better , right as people , we become happier .

Yeah .

And we all agree that this is a good thing for us .

Yeah , I totally agree . We're not in disagreeance on that Right .

Yeah , yeah . But back to what we were talking about . No , back to the humbling thing . Okay , do you guys don't think that the process until you reach being humbled is a humbling process ?

No , I'm not understanding the question you have to accept that .

When you play basketball .

is it humbling ? Not always when I play basketball . No , it's not humbling . It's not humbling so what is it ?

Well , I'm not sure , like you're saying anything , though .

You have to give a specific example .

Yeah , You're not in shape right To play basketball and you get hurt . You have a hard time playing . It comes to details . Yeah , Okay , Right , Is that difficult for you ? Does that kind of give you like when it happens ?

it's absolutely humbling , it's humbling right but it's only humbling If I'm able to make the correlation of what's actually happening .

Yes , if he's under the impression that he's going to go out there and fuck shit up and then he doesn't do absolutely nothing and then he recognizes it , then that's humble .

But if I don't recognize it , and I have an excuse as to why you're like , oh , look , that one didn't pass me the ball .

Yeah yeah , sure , I get that , but the thing is , you still haven't been humbled so that you can make a change , right .

Well , that's the thing . I think humbling is the catalyst to change .

Right , but how many times do you have to keep getting humbled ?

As many as you need .

That's what I'm saying that's why it is still humbling the process of getting to that place where you are humbled . Mike , you're talking about the opportunity to be humbled versus being humbled .

Correct . There's unlimited chances in this example that you're giving . That totally has the ability to be humbled .

There needs to be a correlation between him saying damn you know what Like , even if you , even if you correlate it in that moment , there's no guarantee that he's humbled .

Oh no no , no , that is the moment . I think he has a humbling as a moment to moment . That is the humbling .

Yes , the humbling is here accepting it in the moment and saying , damn you know what ? All those other thousand examples , a thousand and one . I'm realizing that it's on me Like I'm doing something wrong . It's not has anything to do with an outside factor .

I don't know if you could deem anyone and anything completely humble . No , yeah , which is why it's always going to be a moment to moment experience Plus .

I also don't think that you can point the finger and still get humbled .

You have to point the finger at yourself to get humbled you either have to know yeah , you either have to point the finger at yourself , or get to an actual point where you don't know why , and then become a seeker Either or those two things are humbling . Nonetheless , if you have a reason as to why something happened . That's not humble automatically .

Okay , yeah .

Yeah , I agree with that .

Yeah .

So what are we saying ? Guys , Don't play basketball . What's the word .

Listen , where does arrogance come ?

from yeah , but there's also arrogance on all different types of like levels , where it like affects you in different ways , obviously , like there could be someone who's crazy , extremely like to a very , very high , extreme , arrogant , and then and then a person who's you know not , not , not as much . I got an example .

So , based off of it , we were all in a green set . Being humble is a moment to moment thing , so can you ever say that , oh , he's a really humble guy . Or can you only truly say that he's acting humble in that moment , because that person who's humble then can turn around a second later and be totally arrogant . So can you actually be humble as like a ?

characteristic . Now you're talking about speech and speaking properly , and I agree with you that . Yeah , that's a characterization .

Yeah , like you could say that , like yo , Mike's very humble and someone else can be like no , he's not .

What are you talking about ? He's humble with his friends , family . He's not .

No , but even that , your , your definition or your opinion as as to what it means for someone to have like a humble character and for you to deem someone humble , could be completely different , for example , from Eldar's , so you both can use the same word , but you guys are meaning two different things . Yeah , that's also a possibility .

Okay , so what if we both had the same definition ? I still don't think that it would be fair , like to call . I really do .

I agree with you . We're humble all the time .

You want to speak correctly , you would say okay 51 or 52% of the times in situations this person will act humbly , If you want to call that humble then okay , majority of the time majority of the time

majority of the time he's humble . Yeah , right Again . It's such a hard .

It's like coming into the room like my professor always said you come into the room and you say it's hot in here , right ? You're like , oh , it's hot in here . Well , that's a that's a bad way to express yourself . How do you define hot ? There you go . He says totally , over there sitting there . He's like no , actually he runs hot .

Or if I turn on the AC and it gets cool in 10 minutes . It's not hot in here , it's hot in here right now . Yeah , correct .

Yeah , and most of the time we have inconsistencies and problems because of the fact that we don't know how to properly speak .

Yeah , well use words in such a way . Yeah , well then , also then leads to again wrong assumptions , wrong definitions , wrong understandings , and that all creates like not being humble , being arrogant being ignorant , confusion .

you're like , yo , what the fuck going on .

Elder definition of what a nice guy is could be completely different from yours , but the same word is being used .

Philosophers throughout history right , had their own philosophies . So before you start reading their philosophies , what you have to read is their definitions of usage of words . So when they say the word object , they mean very specific thing . When they use the word form , they use very specific definition . For that Each philosopher had their own definitions .

So it's like a compass to have a key , a key on the map .

So when somebody says like , the key to like relationship is communication right . It's not only communication it's the , it's the , it's the , the actual , like word , like the keys and like how you're defining words . So it's like oh yeah there's communication but it's like taking communication like stripping it down for what it is .

And most of the time I think through reason , because we have an innate ability to reason . We won't disagree on those definitions and the place where we get to .

Right , so when there's like the world leaders and stuff that we're talking about , wars can start off of having different definitions of this , now of the same thing .

So if you had an interpreter , like , break it down you had somebody to clearly define it .

This could prevent you know the oh , my God , you don't say .

What do we say about war , mike Wars , all wars can be prevented , and completely eradicated .

If you said I don't remember what we said , but I know what you're talking- about they go to SEMA .

That's a good point . No , I would say if they have clearly defined definitions .

Sure .

I said that if you can't , if you don't make statements and you keep an open ended curiosity . Curiosity if you have genuine curiosity is wars will never exist .

Well , yeah , because they're based off of I believe this and you believe this , and I'm deep rooted and connected and attached to curiosity .

Curiosity is an antidote to war .

Curiosity is an antidote to war , to attachments to your belief systems .

No , no , why ? Because which ? What ? Because you want to continue to ask questions . If you keep asking questions , you will never make conclusions . Yeah , you can't be . If you can't make a conclusion , you will never be an opposing side to an opposing side . Therefore , wars can exist , right ? So ?

so to this podcast theme you can't be curious and arrogant simultaneously .

Impossible , of course not , okay , possible .

So that's an antidote .

Yes , an antidote . So curiosity is the antidote to war .

Yeah , because arrogance breeds , war Sure , yeah .

Oh you like it . I love it you can't be the smile on your face .

You like . You like in matrix right now . You plugged in and they fucking installing the information in you right now .

But you can't be curious and arrogant at the same time .

Yeah , same moment . It's impossible . But you can always not buy it because the arrogance at the same time , right ?

No , it's impossible .

Curious question , I think it's because the arrogant person already knows it Correct .

They know that they are assumption of an arrogance person is they know they already know the person who's curious ask questions as they don't know .

I think no , no , we have to say I give them up to think that you know the right questions to ask .

No , genuinely yes it can be yeah , but , but . But those are not real questions , can we ?

say genuinely curious , yeah , yeah , yeah .

Yeah , yeah , there has to be a genuine , I guess .

Yeah , curiosity , real curiosity , but you can ask questions and be arrogant .

Oh , 100% , I think I actually have an yeah .

But that's not a genuine we have to say a genuine curiosity .

Right , 100% . You actually want to learn . Genuine curiosity comes from recognizing your ignorance on the subject matter , realizing and being excited about the answer and wanting it so bad that you ask it .

So the person that's doing it . So say the person that we were talking to today on the phone . We won't say any names , right ? This person was asking . She maybe wanting to learn , but she didn't really want to learn . I think there was an arrogance in her approach and she wasn't coming from a genuine place of like , true curiosity .

Yeah , you've seen that example . It was on and off .

On and off .

Exactly , there was moments of genuine curiosity , but there was when when some of those , when some questions are answered , it led to the belief that you can make certain conclusions about certain things . Yeah , then you hear the person yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .

Like they want to be in control .

They think that they they have answered what they're looking for , but they haven't , then it didn't get it .

No , this is a phenomena , what you're saying and asking a lot of things where you think like why I feel like you know something and when you get on the phone call , you lose it completely .

Oh yeah , oh yeah .

That's why we're recording calls next week and I don't want to diagnose you as bipolar . Yeah , you know what I'm saying , what you say , how about ? Okay , cool ? Yeah , I don't want to diagnose as bipolar , but that's what it feels like .

Yeah , I would say like in that it's my , it's my ability to like , fully comprehend and understand , and then it's my identity to shut it off completely , yeah , but but I think within that there is the arrogance is coming from the other side of there , has to reach a breaking point , of getting to the point to allowing yourself to be humble , but where I would

The individual , the inquisitive individual that is in front of me right now . Yeah , I cannot not be curious about what the fuck is going on on the on Monday morning right .

So there has to be a point , a part of me that is believing that there is nothing Completely wrong . What is that part ? So that's ignorance , that's arrogance , sure Okay .

Yeah , that's arrogance .

Yeah , because there's other people involved , so it is arrogance yeah . Yeah , I'm sorry , I had an example of it , totally the most arrogant person I've ever met , and he met a lot of people .

Yeah , that's crazy . Yeah like I guess it could be deemed as like a small thing , but I definitely . But it was actually right before this podcast . I don't know if you you caught it . No something that Phillips said .

Come on , phillips has a lot of stuff and we have a lot of good content .

No , no , no , right before . The podcast is something that he he that that's what's asking him . You can ask a question . He asked a question , but he was arrogant at the same time . I asked it about the podcast . No , right before the podcast . I . Don't know bro , it was about Recording the calls .

Oh , okay , okay . No , I don't remember what . I remember the conversation a little bit . Well , yeah , so I was saying that , listen the reason why I don't remember is because , I'm drinking this really good whiskey and if they give us a really serious proposition , might you know when you reach out to ?

the whiskey is magic , it's always magic .

Yes , I feel it in you , you're going into this place .

We're like , yes , it's slowly moving like this , everything's kind of . But , I see it Okay . So what I asked was no , no .

I think that what I at least remember that I was feeling when the conversation was transpiring and I wasn't really paying attention , is that , as totally was recommending to recall the calls , still was adamant about it . Phil was like no , no , no , I would rather sit in on these things . No , no , no , no , no , no .

No , it was . It was something that I was calling out it was . It was similar to something that I was calling out Mike for doing . He was asking a question Uh-huh , but making a statement at the same time . Oh , I never did that . Oh , shit , allegedly , allegedly what I was saying was so what I ?

was saying was this is what I think that we should do . But then I was also asking , like what you think , so I think , where the Perceived arrogance was . Or maybe the arrogance was where I didn't see . It was that , as I was asking the question , it was almost like I had my mind made up yes .

He asked me he is like yo , like next week I want to record some calls , but I shouldn't record all of them because it's gonna be too many . And you guys are like not gonna Want to listen to all of them and like I probably would benefit more if I just recorded one or two . And we just had a deep dive on it . Like he came to me to that .

So the proper way to ask what the problem with me to ask would have been like hey , you're already asking , so this is what I said . I would have said , hey , totally . Um , what I'm thinking is there's like two different ways to go about it that I thought of I can either record Maybe one call we can talk about it , or we can record all the calls .

What do you ?

think is the most beneficial . I started with hey , I think this is it . Yeah the way that I phrased it . Yeah .

I already have my mind made . Do you realize is a statement ? Do you realize is a piece of shit living inside of you right now ? No , yeah , yeah , maybe he's farting .

Maybe they're far . Yeah , it's really in that moment . Yeah , I'm farting , I don't even know .

In that moment , the way I felt was like wait , how is this person , person , yeah making this statement that he knows what would be the best for him ? Yeah , the best for him . Yeah , prove this . Like so , like that to me would be like what , what you just said would definitely be a better Way to go about it .

Yeah , yeah , that that's a realization , in that that I realized , and I think the other example is I went up to Eldar and I asked them or I think I said elder , did I say it to you first ?

I Think I was the building .

Well , well , I'll ask him again . But I went to elder and I said , hey , I got a lot of benefit from hearing you know totally on the call , you know I want to do that . And he's like , yeah , I don't just ask totally . He'd be like totally open to it . And then I asked you .

Yeah , and and yeah , yeah , yes , definitely , the one with me was definitely much more than the one with with , with , with Eldar , but but also still , there's still , for example , a level of I think , still some level of arrogance , because you're assuming that , for example , time is right for you to to benefit by listening on the calls and that you're capable of

Or we could say like , hey , it's actually pretty mature , because you could probably , you , you could actually hurt yourself by making too many Assumptions of what you think is going on yeah , so I came in so like , so where I , where I hear it , is that when the moment of the weakness that's built into it , there's some kind of weakness or insecurity built into

We're totally gave the example is the thing is yeah , yeah , I get it . There's arrogance built in is because we already talked about a lot about learning . Yeah , and how a lot of times where the individuals that need to come for learning , they can't dictate the terms .

Yeah , that's what I'm saying . I'm coming to you guys with , like , an added solution when I didn't even do the first one , and we talked about how .

What is it to be a good student ? Right , yeah , tommy , this is what Tommy comes in . I'm trying , you know , with the suggestion that we recently made . Right , I want to experiment with this . I want to be a good student where Tommy is gonna guide me through Learning how to stretch properly and stuff like that .

But you're not holding your breath in that .

I am not , but I'm optimistic to find out how I'm gonna be a good student in this process . Right , and in this process I almost have to give myself to him you know he's gonna train you . He's gonna train me , yeah , so when ?

did this happen ? This happened last week .

Yes , the first go learn . Oh , he's gonna go learn . He said this , yes , but what I'm saying is that part of being a good student is is becoming automatically almost humble and trusting the other Individual to do right by you , right , and I can't come now to Tommy and say , hey , tommy , actually I'd like to learn this way , like that would be arrogant .

Yeah , because , yeah , he didn't even start to give you what you gave , yet Correct . And you're coming from a place of , hey , I want to learn , and you're like wait and even do step one , yet how are we going through an additional step ? That's the arrogance .

Yeah , well , that , yeah . And he could have like like a guy , eyes , eyes . I said again the most proper way what , what he did there was not as bad as be Before . But he could have said like , hey , do you think I would benefit from listening Right to , for example , to your calls ?

Yeah , like that you know , yeah , so you know . I mean Again arrogance , humbling , like it's almost an intertwined dance , yeah Saying the same thing .

humility , yeah , this is still stands .

Get humbled or get fucked right in that sense , I'm gonna make that into a shirt ever . I will make you talking about shirts for a long time . And , bro , I have so many shirts you don't understand , bro . Yeah , that's not where to start .

That's the best seller . Yeah , but I'm gonna put it , I'm gonna put a little asterisk next to it .

Right now we think that's the best thing .

That's one of the big sayings . Yeah , it's For a long time . I mean , we talked about discipline . A lot to disciplines has a lot of quotes as well . You know discipline is dead and stuff like that , you know . But arrogance is a big one .

Yeah , those , those the only two options in any scenario .

Get humbled oh yeah , fuck , no , getting fucked . Right is is it is getting fucked or it's almost like it's a super necessary process of life . That is , ultimately , if you go through it , if you can withstand it , you can come out on top momentarily .

You're going to get . Wait no moment , right all them down .

Don't you write all the phrases down ? Oh , I do yes . Within the last 10 or 20 , the how many do you write down ?

one every podcast , or only no , no no , when it comes out , I don't really there's a punch behind it , I'll run . Can you read the last five or ten of them ? Sure .

No . Why well , don't you want to make it merch ?

Well , there is gonna be merch , yeah , okay .

So you want to say it out but it's only official .

Merchants are gonna be like four figures for a T-shirt , minimal .

Can we do like ?

yeah , I'm not sure if there's a copy right in any of those like yeah you know , save a save .

I want to keep the entry .

You know , yeah , the hype . He's been making these t-shirts for like a long time .

We interpret the world . I Remember there was . I catch arrogant weasels on there on Dennis rocks . I Catch arrogant weasels on Dennis rocks , I like the like weasels , weasels .

You know , I remember .

I think pay attention , or I'll be the I told you so guy . I Remember totally had one and it was really sadness . Is a tired , angry person ? Totally squoat . Get humble to get fucked again ? Totally squoat . There's a very high chance that you're a dumb ass , totally squoat . Everything you're doing in life is a joke . Phillips quote Houston's is my temple .

Oh , yeah , that's nice . So that's nice I .

Can quarter back your life to ensure the desired results . Toast it to save it . Tea about bad bread on sandwiches . People people don't yell at the library . Totally . This is great . Mud is muddy . Elder I'm a closet thinker elder to totally . Art is that ? That's Tom .

Yeah , I think we were talking about like If bed is really shitty and you could toast it , and it'll say doctors prescription more suffering , mike .

More suffering I want to disappoint his anti-love Mike . Okay , you know I Transfer digital panic a totally Parents petal of motion tea . I might be grooming you , elder .

Can I put totally space as the shape of the toast ? I definitely want the toast one .

Where we had it . Nobody ever been elder to Mike I , dennis rocks , we uncover the conditions in attempt to free you elder . I mean , we have a lot of shit . Yeah , I can you know , and they all relevant to the conversations , obviously . And today's arrogance is a big one . I mean , look , can we , can we eradicate arrogance ?

There's no ability for anybody to .

So is the Anamana and that actually happens . What you're talking about in the show . It's a phenomenon , so entering judgment happens .

So the ability to be criticized or judged is the seed of arrogance , but if you're on your own , you can still be ignorant . Which is okay which I think .

I think being ignorant is very okay . It's an okay phenomenon . It's okay to be ignorant . It hurts more to be arrogant .

Which is still okay to be arrogant . Ignorance is probably just the reality of like a living human being .

Yeah right like 100% the human condition . Yes , so it's ignorance inevitable , yeah , you have a perfect life , then , without to live without ignorance . Right , you'd have to have a perfect thought process .

I think that it ignorance is the key to Knowing , which is the key to happiness , and I think that is the equation that makes us happy . You know what I'm saying . So ignorance plays a very important role in our development .

So it's almost like a , like a . What's it called ? When you play bowling and then they have the gutters ? Yeah , what is it called ? The the ? Assist Whatever those are like to me , ignorance is that of like you're basically doing something wrong .

Yeah , like , like , like now that I'm thinking about it , I remember like a few days ago , like great . For example , right now my leg is definitely feeling better . Yeah , right , god , I can definitely put some weight on it , but definitely not all of it .

Yeah , yeah , you know yeah , yeah , I think , I mean obviously . I think that the antidote to arrogance and happy life is to keep an open mind right , an open mind for the opportunities , to For life to turn out in such a way where it surprises us . Be open to surprises .

Well , well , I think also that it has to do , I think , with the realization that life is , is , is , is a , is meaningful . Why is ?

that . Why do you bring the word meaningful into it ?

Well , I think a lot of good things that happen to people . When people become more inquisitive , when people act in those different ways , I think that they do have realizations that life like it actually is purposeful , like it is meaningful , oh , okay .

So it's almost like there's a cause and effect and there's meaning behind it .

Yeah , yeah , I know that you like my , like Hercules , or like my yeah , yeah , yes , I got to watch that movie once and for all . I mean it's got references , but I started watching it and I've been falling asleep to it ever since .

Which movie Hercules ? Which one ?

When they start dancing and like singing and stuff that just puts me to sleep .

Oh man , but I started it . Yeah , just watching it .

So I think it was in the . There's also a bunch of Hercules's that are like kind of like it's like a real portrayal of the movie , like it's not like a cartoon .

In the corners of the yeah okay .

Right , forever . And then there was a conversation and like that's the general consensus of people , like in that area , and there was a guy trying to like seek information about them , like that was the biggest goal and like everything .

Okay , fine , I have an argument for them , but Wow , wow , that's interesting .

Yeah . So that guy was like trying to get to a point again where he lives forever and like that . But because , like , when we realize like we all have consequences , like we all have meaning , like there's importance or different things , so all the different small things again big things , right , the realization of that , I think like gives you more open-mindedness .

So what do you think about death ? A lot more .

I think it's time for us to have a topic on death . Yeah .

Do ? I totally know . Yeah , that would be excellent .

You have to . Are you guys hitting the fourth floor ?

The upper room . Yeah , wow , yeah , let's talk about death . No , no , no . He wants to go to sleep tonight .

You know what I'm saying ? You gotta do it during the day Wow .

No lights on this episode .

Yeah , that's definitely a big time . No lights on , no lights on no lights on Everybody has to keep their eyes closed .

And .

James have to be here next Friday .

So we have to re . Oh my God , what are those rooms ? No , what are those rooms . What are those rooms ?

No .

I have to have Tommy here . Tommy has to talk , yeah .

So that's the only way I'm going to get comfort . So those escape rooms we're going to recreate that we're like you have to literally walk through and you have to like you don't know where you're at , you can't see anything .

Oh my God , you just have to talk yes .

It's going to be completely dark in here .

It's like holy shit Next Friday .

Totally would like this or no .

No , listen , it's a very important , I think , an interesting topic .

You think death strips all your insecurities away , if you truly understand what death is in that moment . See , I'm not sure if you need to understand all death in order to strip yourself from insecurity .

No , you don't need to fear death in order to live life .

The simpleness of knowing that you are going to be gone .

See , the thing is like for some reason I don't know why Society deems death as being a bad thing . You know what I mean . As I age and I'm going to tell you right now as I start feeling my body , I quickly understand that , look , I used to be a certain type of way on a basketball court and all this other stuff and recovery and everything else .

I think , built in with what you're saying is living a true full life . I think if you have an unfulfilled life , you're going to be kind of like scratching and clawing . But , let's just say I'm talking about the understanding , the concept of death . I think to the person let's say the opposite example .

Well , I think the way they portrayed it , at least in the movie and I think it's a little lazy is that the motivating factor of doing the right thing here now is because you can die . You know what I mean , and I don't think that should be the motivating factor .

Well , no , it wasn't that you can die , it's that your life has meaning to it .

But that's the problem . I have a problem with that .

But you're saying that meaning is attached to death , when you're probably attached to more love , right and like an action that's going to create something . Death doesn't really create anything .

They are portraying death as being a still bad thing a little bit .

Yeah , yeah , okay .

Yeah , but yeah , that's a good topic . I think , yeah , it is a great topic . I think I think we're mature enough to be able to talk about it too , like I mean , at least the podcast is . You know what I mean , because I think a lot of times we make assumptions around death . That is not productive . You know what I'm saying .

Because it's unknown , so it's scary .

There you go . Yeah , there you go . That's why I'm not willing , I'm not okay with trading , being humbled today for being humbled in the unknown . I'm not . I don't want to be the uni bomber . That's why I'm not committing fucking suicide over here and being a radical Muslim , for example , killing myself to get 72 virgins . You know what I mean .

I think it's going to be a great topic .

I actually , I actually , I actually wholeheartedly think that we're , we can live out hell on earth and heaven on earth right here , right now , in our minds .

Is anybody truly 172 virgins like right now , Like , is that like ?

I mean , I guess it's an appealing fucking thing , right , Oleg ? I'm sorry .

Like 72 is like an absurd amount you couldn't handle 72 , Oleg .

Like no , but it's not something like I ever thought about , or wonder .

But it's not a bad idea now that you think about it , saying , but in one sitting .

That's an absurd amount , like why is five not not like ? No , like I'm not .

Yeah , it's crazy , you wouldn't say no , I can't handle one good wife .

You know what I'm saying and my bedroom .

Sometimes , you know , that was like a mirror , like a long time ago , you know , there was maybe like hundreds , thousands of years ago .

That was the idea of , like you know , have like they knew that people are really dumb and it's easy to trick .

I'm just saying , bro , they didn't have a lot of things , so to them the 72 versions .

that's like I'll do that thing , but I like ice cream . If you offer me 72 scoops of ice cream , I'd be like yo . This is ridiculous .

Yeah this is good . Are you kidding me ? Yeah , where's the bomb ? Who do I have to blow up ? Give me three to five maximum .

I think one scoop would be the happiest One , Neapolitan .

Just like a , you know , try effect 72 and Virgin .

So like you're saying like .

I'm getting like ice cream with Nutella like on top of a Belgian waffle , on top of a baklava . Yeah , what are we saying here ?

72 is ridiculous Totally . So do we help you with arrogance or not ? Because clearly it's a crippling topic If he says no . If he says no , is it arrogant .

Well , I think a good question is like Do you not think that ?

taking a very specific stance about that . Arrogance is very dependent on social dynamics .

So arrogance is approval seeking . Once you stop seeking approval , you can be freed of arrogance . That's what .

I think there's a possibility . I'm just blubbering it out there . I'm thinking about it , so what's ?

about the crossroads of like being genuinely curious and involve somebody else , right , but then , like the status seeking , you need somebody else also . So , like there's . That's like the mental shift , right , because the genuine curiosity is throwing off whatever your idea of who you are , whatever question that you have off of somebody else .

It's also dynamic .

Yeah , the other person is still there , so social dynamic could be the element that healed you also . Yeah , the other person is going to be the one that's going to point out whatever flaw .

Here's the thing . I think that if you become curious , genuinely curious , you have the ability to not only transform yourself , your own life , but you can transform the teacher's approach to you . Okay , okay . So I think it unlocks both ends of the spectrum , so you can benefit on both sides . So is it validating the teacher ?

Yeah .

Think about it , it's a paradoxical fucking phenomenon .

So is the other person really have that much of an influence ? Then in that example , like if I'm genuinely curious to you .

No , no , you're asking a very crazy question .

Because if you're saying that genuine curiosity is the answer , it's like inside of me I already know , so you just the great teacher no , the great teacher is pointing me back within myself to empower myself , correct ?

Yeah , that's it . Yeah , the answers are always within .

And that is it that he just described that fucking phenomenon . That's what my therapist says . I'm not sure if she really knows what she says when she says that .

She says the tools are within you .

They definitely are .

That's because I think by default that everything that's installed and every human being here needs to be properly guided sometimes you know , out of itself Almost the times . I said the tools are there . It's there , but it needs to be guided properly . Yeah , otherwise it needs to be like kick started , otherwise it's just dormant .

Yeah , but it's also like a , not like a . It's like the equivalent is like a buzzword , like it's a buzz line . Yeah , yeah , it is a buzz line . Yeah , oh , for sure , everything is within you .

I think there are a lot of buzz lines out there . What we just said .

The way Philip just described it is actually the definition of what I think people actually want to say , when they mean it . You know what I mean , but they don't have the ability yet to say what they actually mean .

I don't have the capacity .

You just said it . Oh no , no , I know , I'm just being introverted . Yeah , yeah , okay Fine .

Yeah , so how do you think that we prevent arrogance ?

Come to the podcast . Oh , I mean , that's definitely Pen . Pen is fucking . You have to appreciate this fucking shit , right , but do you ?

think that you have to go through arrogance to be humble , or can you just automatically be humble ?

Yeah , I'm not sure if you need to be humble if you're arrogant . I mean , if you're not arrogant , there's no such thing . Humbling only exists if you're arrogant .

But do you think that there's anybody that exists that has ever not been arrogant ?

See , I'm not sure if that's a built-in and into human condition . Yet Something tells me that it is . Yeah , and Buddha , I believe , said that it is because he meditated that the reason why we have all the shit is because of desire , and desire is the culprit of our suffering .

Yes , correct , so yeah .

So if it's that , then yes , he's correct about that . That's correct . You know what I mean . Therefore , he's trying to say look , remove all the desire , because there's no wants , because there's no , wants , there's no attachments , there's no suffering .

Yeah , yeah To arrogance , but it's a very , very important thing .

It's a very fucking hard thing to do , so if you are somebody who wants , you are essentially going outside of yourself and there's going to be a great chance that you are probably going to be open up to some kind of judgment or criticism , and the arrogance is almost inevitable to come from something who are you to make a statement of ?

I want this based on what ?

Because you're almost saying in that statement is whatever I have within me . I have overlooked and I basically have not valued whatever is inside of me and now I'm going outside of myself to have to go to the store to buy that thing in order to try to get that thing . That is already inside of me . So all the you're an idiot .

That's right how many houses you have to buy . This is why , when you work here , what ?

do ? I say you have all the tools that you need to be successful .

Oh , can we ?

write that one down , whoa .

No , but that's like very pertain to a very specific thing , yeah , but no , no , my goal is to almost like it's , not to mimic . I mean , jim Carrey , you know , said it , but he's right , but he's wise , he's right about what he said .

He said don't go in there .

He said listen get as much as you want , get as fast as possible . Oh yeah , that was good . So you can understand that that's not the answer .

Yeah , he said . I wish everybody was rich so that they would know as soon as possible . Yeah , that's not the . That's not the answer .

That's not the answer to happiness Because what he realized that finally he's had it all under the impression that this is what he needed , and he finally pointed the finger at himself and said I'm the fucking problem .

But yeah , but think about where he came from . So my understanding of his story is that . He's a fucking sinner bro . Yeah , but think about where he came from . So he came from , like a blue collar , like humble , like humble , like quote , unquote beginning . That's what you think , let's call it a let's just call it a blue collar beginning .

Right .

So , because that's the true element . So he wrote himself a check and he wanted to come out of like this type of life that he didn't think was serving him Correct .

So what do you say ? That you like the story here in this class ? There's a movie element in my life ? Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah . So you do like stories , yeah , yeah when they're low movie , yeah , okay .

Yeah , so yeah , then he talked about depression being like the deep rest , right , right , like the character that you create , that you cannot take anymore Anymore .

Anymore , he did not want to be . He needs to go into that deep rest in order to recover .

Yeah , and when he came out of that deep rest , he came to the conclusion that he still likes R , he still looks painting and all this stuff , but he's doing it from a perspective of it's more about the craft instead of . I need this outside opinion and I need this award in order to valimate my existence .

You lost all the power that you're supposed to have inside internally . Right . Which you already do . Right , you know what I mean , see ya . But that points us to what Our arrogance . Arrogance is , what's actually holding us away , or maybe it's . Can arrogance then be coined as an indicator ? Totally , that again , that we're doing it wrong .

Doing this life in general .

No , I mean again like . To me , arrogance is like one of the worst possible scenarios that like can be playing out .

So it's already almost like a punishment . You're saying .

It's not only you're wrong about the truth , but you're also defending the truth , which is a double fuck .

You're so bad Like , it's so bad .

Wait , wait . But if everybody is inevitable to have , arrogance , isn't arrogance then , like the start of understanding , humble , being truly humble Again . Can't there be something built in it that ? Why are we on our level , is the question . We can't answer that because we don't build ourselves .

That's the issue . Yeah , we don't know where we're coming from .

Why do you ?

need to touch the fire to know it's hot .

Yeah , like is it ? If we're basically saying that everybody has a different story but at the end of the day , if everybody has to deal with arrogance , everybody has a pure start , arrogant , and then they can have the ability to come to humble .

That's the thing . Why do we have to go through this journey ?

Well , if you didn't have like a bad , how would you have good ? It's almost like if you didn't have arrogance , how would you have confidence ?

Yeah , but the contrast is very serious .

Right , it's a black and white . Why can't we have gray and beige ?

Can you have gray and beige ? I think you can build within it .

You know what I'm saying Slowly .

You can have conversations , but as you're going , there might be different notches .

Think about it . Think about it . We just had an example of the unibomber right , who didn't have a privilege right in order to be arrogant enough to be humbled Like he didn't even have that .

But we do agree that he is a crazy arrogant Well probably .

Yeah , probably , and that's why he didn't even have the opportunity to even be humbled . So like that's wild , you know what I mean . That's a level right there .

Well , no , no , no . I think we came to the conclusion that there's always opportunities to be humbled , but he chose to not .

Well , I'm not sure if he chose , I'm not sure if he had the choice in the matter , but yeah , I think he was probably too ignorant to make any kind of choice , but don't you think the human has the ability to choose at any point ? No , I'm not sure . No , not some . I'm not sure about that , yeah .

But in any scenario where you actually are in a moment where you have the ability to choose and you're conscious about it , you're always going to do right , yeah , yeah , like . If I'm like Philip , do you really want to like ?

What he's talking about is what Sakuridhi said , is that no one knowingly does wrong .

But I have to then trust that that person knows what is right and wrong . Sure .

No , no , not even that you need to give yourself the ability to know that you're thinking and that you're reasoning through the equation this is going to do with the person that has everything to do with you acknowledging a moment where you're actually thinking , which lots of times we make decisions without doing that .

But I think thinking is one thing and then also having the ability to realize what type of thought am I having . Is it one that's ?

serving me or not ? Well , yeah , but I don't think in those moments that you're actually thinking .

My example goes to the person who's like the person , who's doing wrong , who's also trying to cure themselves at the same time . Where does that line draw of that person then being able , I guess , to surrender , right and then go outside for help ? And again the help is trying to redirect .

Yeah , To some level it's almost like built in curiosity or humility that's inside of you . It's like driving your questioning and inquiry .

Yeah , because I have to basically be saying if I'm making all these wrong decisions , the toys point , if I'm thinking and I do start to think , okay , but what's then giving me the ability , just because now I'm thinking , to then say like , oh , now I'm on the right path to do the right thing ?

Sure , but I guess that teacher , if you instill trust in them , has to have your best interest at heart as well .

And you have to trust in that . So that person , what's the likelihood of that arrogant person trusting that other person to put them back on that path ? And very , very unlikely , I say it's a crazy , unlikely scenario .

Yeah , the only way . I mean I guess the arrogant lens is such that that individual has to be so competent in those areas and show you like he's the shit and you really want that , like , that's almost like the hook right to get your attention .

Yeah , the way that I see this played out is over time . This is not a momentary thing .

For some , yeah , and of course , of course , for some , yeah , it has to be a long term thing . Because I mean again , we talked about this I think , like you said here , like I might not be a fat person anymore , but I still think fat , right . And why is that ? There's steps to it ? No , not that there's steps to it , it's habitual .

I think that's a big part of it . But , as I'm understanding it more , if you did it in a way that doesn't line up with the truth , you're going to stay stuck in that mentality . So if you went about it arrogantly , right , you lost weight because you went to the gym . You didn't eat properly . Because you think the automatic phenomenon 100% .

Well , what goes to my head is that you can't be rewarded by using a treat . You can have that example , right Like , let's say like Ozympics really popular right now . Right , what is this ? Ozympics , a drug that you take to suppress your appetite and you can lose like 50 pounds in like a very short amount of time .

Okay let's say so Ozympics , you want this . You want this no , you're saying it's like You're looking at my boy , it gives you stomach paralysis . Yeah , it's for diabetics Stomach paralysis .

It's for diabetics . It's for diabetics .

So that's an example .

My celebrity's using it .

But you can say an example of somebody that's going to make money , right ? You can rip somebody off , like the Wolf of Wall Street , right , and all make money , or you can then have another person at a different trajectory that you know works hard and does it the right way . Yeah , I think the person that ends up doing it in the false sense .

We're talking about you've created a physical product to try to treat a psychological phenomenon . It's a trick . It's a trick . No , no , no , no , it's not even a trick , bro , it's a snake oil . No , you're tricking yourself in the public . Yeah , it's a snake , it's a snake oil , it is .

But you're tricking the public , right ? You're creating a false sense of who you are arrogant right . Yes , and you're doing it to yourself , yeah , okay , ignorant and arrogance all that .

So imagine , imagine , how bad your karma is , that you have to , you have to go through this process .

To do this , yeah . And when you have to go to that point to do that , that's the Mike Tyson example , oh yeah , of having to be this guy who's presented a certain way I'm going to eat your children and do all this stuff , yeah and then have to go on that . The path that he's on now makes sense to try to make up for what he did .

Yeah , but think about this One example if you have a dirty fish tank , do you drug the fish or do you clean the fish tank , in example , with an ozampic or whatever you were talking about ? Yeah , do you drug the fish , do you even inside a dirty fish tank , or do you clean the fish tank ?

What's the ? Most logical thing to do Ozampic is drugging the fish .

Yeah , but the truth that you're supposed to be cleaning the fish tank .

Right , so that example .

Which takes longer . That example is yeah , it takes more time .

Yeah , that example is in this going after your habits and realizing that your habits have built up over time . But how humble do you have to be to say , oh , 30 years of my life I've been doing the wrong thing and building the wrong habits .

I'm ready to change yeah .

How humbled do you have to be to do ?

this oh well not humble , it's just you gotta have to get fucked . Elder , but is being humble admitting you were wrong ? Is that the that's ?

part of the process that's taking responsibility for that's being humbled .

That's part of the process . Humble , humbled , yeah . It's finally taking accountability for the choices made and actions .

It's okay . And , in turn , I think being humbled is being , is becoming transformed as a human . It's a transformation that happens from being a very specific way to then taking those thoughts and those understandings and saying you know what ? I'm not really sure I need to change the trajectory of it .

I think transformation and thinking about like what happens over time . There's kind of a magic in that and if you actually think about that , it's not like over time , like I'm talking like maybe five , 10 , 15 , 20 years , like looking back at , like who you were and like who you are now . Like looking back at that , like to me like there is a magic .

It is magic . Yeah , it's almost magical , it's magical for sure . Yeah , mike , what do you think about this arrogance thing , man , did we solve it , do we ?

fucking understand it . You know , one question that we've been talking about , that's kind of been repeating this thing you guys asked and I didn't know the answer to it .

I think the way we bounce off of one another .

No , no , no , it's how we were talking about the design of the human life .

Yeah , but see , I can't believe that we were designed in such a way that we're designed already , like in a way that's flawed from the jump , you know like that we're designed , but then that would be saying that you're born .

No we interpreted this shit in the wrong way , then you're basically saying when you're born , you're wrong .

I think like my idea of a baby being evil or something .

I don't think that's the issue that I'm having .

So yeah , so I think . Then there is the societal building , or blocks , or whatever you want to call it , and that judgment and criticism . Once like that criticism opens up , you're opening yourself up to like society and then like that self . However you became into existence , that's gone .

Yeah , I don't believe that , that we are created like out of a bad place ? No , I don't . Because then that's why it's hard for me to understand how do we end up here ? Yeah , that's my question Like , how do we end up like this If we if I mean I believe that that we are created right ?

Nobody says that . Nobody says that you get humbled or you get folk .

Well , you probably , that person probably didn't suffer enough . I don't think that person exists .

Yeah , that says this to themselves .

But yeah , so what are your final thoughts ? I don't know , okay .

That's all like that Maybe .

I thought it was a great topic .

And how does it help you ? How about that ?

Um , I guess it raises awareness , maybe , uh , to what Push myself to stay curious and stay out of the the line of arrogance .

The line of making conclusions yeah , okay .

Yeah . And I think I really don't know , but I can . I can especially like looking at how I've been in the past of being a person , of knowing of like knowing defining yourself , but I think that I think I can also . I feel like in a sense link that to my anxiety of , of , of .

Yeah , but I see , see , I also feel that , like I mean on on on the exact , on on on the anxiety thing that you uh touched upon , I feel like , um , I could be wrong about it , but , like the , the way that I viewed it maybe for a long time , is that like it's like , um , it's a very like unknown , like you know , type of situation , but , um , maybe

Wait , what'd you say ? An anxiety is an unknown type of thing . Yeah , yeah .

I feel like , um , when , like a lot of people talk about anxiety , it feels like a very you're anxious because it's an unknown type of scenario .

You miss , you miss the fucking episode . You miss that episode Tom has learned a lot he said his whole life changed from that .

Yeah , that's why he's been here a whole week and I like I feel like when , like when , when you are anxious , you actually do know . I guess , like you feel that you know almost right , yeah .

Anxiety is very closely tied . Now that I think about this whole thing is to arrogance . Yeah , badly .

Can I ask which was the episode on arrogance ?

Was it last week ? No , no , anxiety was , anxiety was last week and arrogance was this week yeah .

I wasn't here for anxiety . Yeah , anxiety was last week .

I was here about the time we did anxiety because you got , you didn't allow us to do arrogance last week , so you can't go with either A's oh that's not arrogant .

Is it not arrogant to share with everyone ? Hey , this is the topic . Come join us . I would have made extra effort to be here .

Yo , luckily it's on Dennis .

Rock Wow . Look at this , listen , it was on the fly , it wasn't really resolved for me .

It was actually , actually it was .

Thanks to Oleg .

I lived an anxiety for most of my life .

I never thought that we would be able to get through a full podcast episode , and it might be pretty arrogant to think this way without Tom saying a word . But you also wanted Tom to shut the fuck up the whole time right .

But you also been wanting Tom to shut the fuck up the whole time .

He's been yelling . This whole episode been bothering me so much , Even though he hasn't said a word .

Tommy has reached Archie level . Yes , where ?

he's so loud . My favorite thing that Archie does is often and he did it today he's napping how he is . Now he gets up , he's a little flustered and he just looks around the room . He's like right , because he knew he wanted to go jump in the couch . But he first reads the room , kind of like .

No , all right , phillip , what do you think , man , arrogance ? What do you think ? Maybe I do like ?

stories . Maybe you do like stories .

Final thoughts .

So in terms of arrogance , I would say what do I think ? I think it is inevitable that everybody is going to reach a point in their lives when they're going to have a sense of arrogance . I don't think that you can live a life of just this purity where you don't have this thing , and that brings you comfort . No , I think you're not alone on the island .

So are you trying to say , in other words , that you can't be angry , if you understand ?

Yeah , if you don't understand .

You're going to be angry .

Yeah , your chances of anger versus peace or anger versus patience , when you truly understand arrogance what it is and that if you do believe that it is inevitable in your life , the ability to be angry at that person , to be angry at the idea of arrogance , is going to be very , very low .

What you're saying . If I'm hearing you correctly , because I've been , and if you're not , this is what you are saying . Every person is exactly what they deserve , to be based on their own accord , and that is comforting as fuck .

Well , the word deserve , we say , is interesting right .

No See , if you are an inquisitive person and willing to learn and want to , like you know an eager beaver , that should be very scary .

What did you just say ?

If you're an eager beaver and you want to actually learn , if you're inquisitive and you have curiosity right , that state of mind is very dangerous to accept the fact that like , oh , this is part of it .

No , I'm not saying that you accept it , but like it helps you to take accountability , like , hey , I got myself here , oh , okay , yes , that's what I mean , that's what you mean , that's not the way you heard it .

That's not what I heard .

No , no , I mean . I'm saying that everybody gets to where they are because of the way they are . So a lot of times when you're in a place , you're like yo , why is this happening to me ? I didn't do this , I don't deserve this , this arrogant behavior . It's all because we are under the impression that we're cleaner than we actually are .

I got to change it . What's humbling , and maybe what's more comforting than humbling , is the fact that , by design , there's justice .

Well , yeah , and that's part of it . That's the thing I like justice Not when it's happening to you . Nobody likes it . Does he like justice totally ? What does he got to talk about ?

Absolutely not . I like it . He likes how about this .

How about rainbows and candy canes ?

I'll save you here .

Say I like justice when I see injustice .

I like justice when I see injustice in Batman movies , yes Is that good when it's applied to others .

Yes , yeah , all right , oleg , let's save the best for last , okay .

Yes , no , wrap it up , yo Give me arrogance . What do you think about ?

arrogance . Did we tackle something Absolutely ?

not , no , no .

Okay .

I think that was obvious and like there was no clear understanding .

I appreciate that . Yeah , thank you , you're welcome For saying absolutely nothing .

All right , totally . Final thoughts .

Wait , was that the definition of arrogance or no , or was that just his opinion ?

You would have to get the normal a little bit better .

That's it . So Mike would have to answer it , because he knows him a little bit better .

Yeah , I'm not sure if Mike actually knows him , because actually Mike just met him .

This is true . Yeah , I just met him , got it yeah .

He's still given him a chance . I think that might be the playing factor of why Oleg is the way he is . I'm sorry , not sorry .

Totally Don't believe other people .

Don't believe anything here .

Believe the only thing .

Believe half of what you hear and half of what they say .

Yeah , don't believe everything here .

Totally . I'm going to say my final thoughts and you can run off that I think arrogance is very , very dependent on the social aspect of acceptance . This is what I think . I think that Kili's heel of arrogance is social acceptance . Social acceptance , praise , right Esteem , social esteem , external stuff , right . Being famous yeah , that's one of them .

That's right . We have two ears and one mouth , so you can listen more than you speak .

Whoever gave him those little fucking fables ?

did a really good job .

One butthole , Because as much as he understands this , he cannot practice it . So they fucking pulled the trick on him . So next life he's going to have one ear and two mouth .

If there is next life .

I'm guaranteeing you all that , bro , I reassure you of that . So yeah , those are my final thoughts , but , toli , can you run off that ?

Yeah , no , I mean , I don't think there's much else to add as far as a closing thing .

You know , yeah , yeah , yeah , so how tos ? Almost yeah , but you know what my question would then counter current questions ? You would be . Would you not think that personal examples will be the best way to start ? Yeah , okay , we're great , we're in agreement . Yeah , okay .

It's recorded .

Wow .

Yeah , what's recorded does not need to be proved . Let's bring . Thank you , guys . This was great , as always , fucking shit . Yeah , yeah , yeah .