On the Head of a Pin (4x16)

Welcome to denim wrapped nightmares tipsy exchange Podcast where we explore the supernatural series episode by episode.

over drinks, we'll discuss the lore of gore and what we adore about the Winchesters and their adventures.

I'm burly, and I'm a new fan of the series.

I'm LA, and I'm here along for the ride. Now let's get tipsy.

Hello la Hello Burley. So first before I forget, we're drinking Cimarron tequila with what is it?

Celsius Celsius peach vibe yeah peach by how much caffeine

Did you say?

200 milligram

I feel like this is a mistake.

Yeah, we should have looked at that better. You know what we should call this one? What? A Uriel? Because it kind of looks like urine. It

looks like urine. And we thought it was going to be really good and amazing. But it turns out it is not very good for us.

What the drink Oh, yeah, it's not Oh, yes. So because the caffeine

and Uriel we thought he was a really good and amazing guy. And we turned out like boiler. Oh, so yeah, this is the Uriel Holy shit.

Wow. Okay. Wow, that's gonna be an interesting episode.

So last episode, Sam and Dean investigated a small town where people were cheating death, they discovered that Reapers had gone missing and turned to Pamela for help. I still don't understand how they got her to come. Yeah, no. She sent them into the spirit world as they astral projected to go find answers. And they came face to face with Alastair. Guest Star Christopher higher doll six foot four. I love him. Good actor really great. We get to

Yep. Well, the next one is called on the head of a pin. It's the 16th episode of season four. And it aired on March 19 2009. It starts out in the parking lot. There's been some sort of look like a crash pile up something some shit went down with those cars

got all the windows were blown out and their alarms were going off. And the Cassiel like put up his hand and the cars went old. Silence let's not do that anymore.

And he walks over and there's a very pretty blonde lady laying on the ground dead. And she shot through her throat. Yeah, it was like, it was weird because I thought it was a throat but then when they showed it again, it looked more of like down by her chest.

On her solar plexus.

No, I couldn't figure out like where to say that. That was that. But yeah, in between, like the throat and the top of the chest. I guess somewhere right there.

I feel like there's a dent there and so it probably has a name.

Yeah. But anyway, he leans down and whispers Goodbye, sister to her. And then the cops come and there's a helicopter and kind of the helicopter like kind of goes across her body. And you see her huge wings. She's dead angel

like Ash like, or burnt into the concrete. Yeah,

just Yeah, it was cool. Yeah, like that. And then we see the guys they are heading back into their motel room. There are a couple of fellows waiting for them. By the name of Uriel and cast yell. Dean's pest. They are on their way home from Pamela's funeral. Where Dean had mentioned in the car before they got in the motel room that he's just tired of burying friends.

He had to be real tired to because Sammy was driving.

Yeah. And he's just tired of hearing friends. He doesn't know if he wants to keep going on like this. And Sam what Sam's like, Well, how about instead of being tired, you get angry?

That takes energy, Sam? Yeah. And he just told you he doesn't have it. Yeah. Sam. Come on, Sam.

Well, Yuri, Yuri. Uriel tells them after they're in the room and inside his little tantrum a little bit. That he is Oh, no, no, I'm sorry. He has his tantrum. Because Uriel tells him that that he is needed. And then dean has his little tantrum like, I'm sorry, we just got we just got back from burying Pamela.

After the last time you needed us.

Yeah. And you remember Pamela Castile, right? Burnout her eyes?

Yeah. And Castillo's like over in the corner, not really looking at them. And again, he's not looking at Dean like this. He was doing that last episode to where he wasn't really looking at Dean. Yeah, well To find out why. Oh,

I think Castillo's goes to say something about something with them and Cass or Uriel check them. Like real quick like really puts them in his place like shut the hell

up. Yeah. And he does and you can tell Dana's like

oh yeah like Dean looks at Catholic. What's this?

What's happening? Why aren't you looking at me? Yeah. Oh, I love you. It's too big Cass accounting okay,

we'll get we'll get a Uriel tells them that seven angels have been murdered from their garrison and they think that it's a demon that's killing them. So that's why they need the guys specifically they need Dean though, because they have captured Aleister but he is not talking. So they came to Allah stirs best student to get him to come interrogate Aleister, to get the name of the demon that's killing these angels. Dean says, cash. You can't ask me to do

don't you look at that pretty boy. You look at me.

He says. Nobody said anything about asking.

Uh huh. And then the subtitle said, whoosh,

yeah, whoosh. And then Sam's in the he's in the motel room alone.

He goes, and he goes, dammit.

Yeah, Sam,

that, Sam.

We are wherever I don't know where they are. But they have Aleister tied up. He's in a double strap. And there's this like a big six sided star behind him that he's like chained to.

And they specifically say it's an A Nokian Devil's trap. So it doesn't look the same as the super fancy, intricate Devil's trap that Bobby first introduced us to back in season one. It's a more simple Devil's trap. Yeah, it's not as busy. Yeah. And that's the one that they typically use in future episodes. Is this Nokian Devil's trap? Hmm. All right. Easier for props, people and whatever to draw that out. Because the one Bobby had was real fancy. Yeah. I bet it was a pain in the ass

right there chit chatting and you knew Dean, Dean tells the URL that he wants to talk to Castle alone. And which I was surprised that you're kind of like, gave into it. I thought like, because he's been so like, controlling of the conversation in the motel and everything that like I thought he was gonna be like, No, you don't need to talk to him alone.

Well, he feels like he's got Cassiel in check now.

Yeah, true.

So he trusts that his plan is going to stay the course.

Right? And I like that Dean. He's like, Okay, well, while you're out, you know, once you pick up some doughnuts while you're at it, yeah. And you're like, I think you mentioned that he's like, starting to like him or something.

He's like, I'm starting to like you boy. Yeah. And then Castiel says Uriel is the funniest angel in the garrison.

Does he say that? Yeah. I don't remember that. But after he whooshes away, I thought it was funny that it seems like you guys need to walk more. You're gonna get flappy. He was like real, real serious. Um, has to close to Dean.

That's when Dean was like, why does he hear real? Have you want to leech what's that about? Why is he like controlling you right now? Cassiel said, they're questioning my sympathies. Oh, that's where I've gotten too close to the humans in my chars

what it was he's they're there. They feel he's too close to him.

Yeah. And he said, you

Well, after this, that little romantic exchange, we see Dean I mean, he was still kind of fighting. He didn't really want to go through with this but

a Casio was like I don't want to ask you to do this. Yeah, it was sad.

But we see him rolling into the room with Aleister with a big old cart of tools and holy water and whatnot to start start torturing Aleister

as he was doing it, he seems to be getting into it and like they showed us in a little recap thing before that. He said when he was torturing souls down in Hell, he liked it.

Thanks. Yeah. Which I feel bad for him because obviously that's such a like internal struggle for him like he doesn't want to do it. But then like, you feel you feel that feeling you had when you were doing it and you liked it too, like well, Aleister are like, starts off like ready to taunt him while he's trying to get his tools set up and ready, and mentions that about all the things that he did to Dean's daddy. Hmm. I think later on he mentioned like he had him. He had him for a

Holy hell? Yeah. He brags about that. John John held out for 100 years you wouldn't give up and Dean only lasted for 31 of the things he used to taunt him with.

Yeah, really not nice. But it switches we're back at the motel and Ruby comes in. And she says she can still smell the angels from the room. Yeah, gross. Sam is telling her Hey, they need to find Dean because he doesn't. He doesn't think Dean can get this job done. Like he's not he's not strong enough. Right. But Sam is Sam thinks he's strong enough to get it done.

He says I will be. Yeah. Yeah, me find out why?

Oh, yeah. And so the flash that then it flashes back. And that's when he's talking about having that daddy for a century. And that he gave him the same opportunity that he gave Jean But daddy held out. Dean says that even though he was in hell, he still had dreams and he had dreamt of this moment and getting to torture. Aleister, the way that he had tortured him. Punches back to Ruby. She's chanting and something and she lights this whole map on fire. And as she's chanting Rhys go

I thought it was cool. Oh, yeah. I liked it. But then

super disturbing.

Sounds like I need it.

Yeah. And she's like, you can have it.

I thought she rattles him. Yeah, I totally was like pussy that yeah, that's what makes him stronger. Oh, but no, she

cuts her arm open. And Sam like hungrily grabs her arm and just starts sucking away on her blood.

Yeah, blood play. I did not expect that.

I didn't like it. I were backed out of CERN. Dean and Dean is Dean stabs Aleister with this big ass blade that he liked doused in holy water.

I think it was the special demon knife wasn't it? Wasn't I? Wasn't sure it had like carvings on the blade. So I thought it was okay. Probably was them. I've been doing the holy water and the syringe and Oh, yeah.

Big Ass needle. Yeah. And I don't know what he pumped into him, but it definitely didn't seem like it felt good.

No, Christopher hire adults performance. Convincing. Yeah, I believed he was being tortured. As dean

is doing his job. We see like the waters. It's not the spout. It's the little turn thing that turns the water on.

Is that not called the spout? Is it?

I thought the spout was like where the water comes out?

I think you're right. Is it a spigot? I think so. Anyway, I heard that. Sorry. Anyway, the twisty thing.

Yeah, so we see it being turned on its own. It's like squeak and so their drip starts happening from the pipe above the devil's trap. And it perfectly drips right onto the line of the devil's trap to just make a perfect place where it opens it.

And we were like who's doing that? What the fuck is that? Yeah,

we find out Yeah, I

thought it was God at first.

I don't know who I thought it was.

I only thought it was got it for us. Because Alistair when they were trying to get Anna and Cassiel tried to smite Alistair. He said something about like, ooh, take it up with daddy like something like that. Oh, yeah. And then he said something else about Gods on my side or something like that in this episode. So I thought at first like, oh, it's God, but not today.

No, not today. But Anna Anna shows up. Yeah, I don't know where.

And she's like, oh, like Castillo's like, Oh, your human body. And she's like, Yeah, I know. It got completely destroyed. So that answered our question is What happened Anna when we were trying to figure out did she blow up? Like what happened? She did. She totally got blew up. But she's like I called in some favors. I'm sentimental. I got my body back. Um, who are these favors that I got an hour Yeah, I would like my 20 something year old body back to same. hook us up Anna. Come on.

Oh, and then that's, that's when Castile I think she's she's like asking like, Why the hell is Dean doing this? And cat feels like, well, he's doing God's work. And Anna's like, it's easy though. Because I don't

think yeah, I don't know. And then she touches his hand.

Oh, yeah. And he's he's Oh, here. He says. I'm nothing like you. You fell. Yeah, like it's just disgusted with her.

Don't touch me. She's just like, I know you're feeling doubt.

lean into it.

When in doubt pull out okay. Come on Castile.

Well, we're back back with Dean. All right. Throwing holy water on Aleister and then he What is that ton of salt down his throat like on so many ways it's awful. Yeah. Especially for him and then I'm just like has this random clip that switches to Sam in the car just real angry face driving really

driving that's it and intense steering little clip

of that we got got to see angry Dean or I'm sorry, angry Sam hopped up on some demon blood.

They're just letting us know he's done sucking on Rubeus forum And he's on his way he's in he's in route

and he's angry like he told Teton to be working for him, I guess.

And Alistair bass majority of his dialogue, this episode is just sounds, just noises. Yeah. Well Christopher Heyerdahl did those sounds well? Oh, he was so good. I believe that.

Yeah. And just like the taunting Dean the whole time Yeah. And just like not even like never raised his voice just like same tone just was good. And so Aleister reveals that it was supposed to be John that brought it on, but it ended up being dean and he kind of laughs about it. And Dean's like, What are you talking about? Yeah. And he tells him that the first time he picked up the blade or whatever it was to torture the first person in hell.

He said, cut into that weeping bitch. Oh, that's

right. Oh my god, how awful.

I know. That's why I remembered it.

But it's revealed that this was the cause of the first seal breaking. And I think Aleister ends up reciting like the, the righteous man that sheds blood and hell as he breaks so shall it break the first seal. So

Dean broke the first seal. He kicked off the apocalypse basically,

he's not really happy about hearing this news. No, yeah. And he doesn't believe it at first, but then he does. And this is when Aleister actually when Dean turns around because he's like, thinking like, what the fuck I didn't do that. Donaldson me. Alistair notices the water dripped, and broke the seal on the devil's trap. And so as Dean turns around to like, face him again. ousters, out of the chains right in front of Dean's face

just suddenly completely not restrained any more. No more bondage for Alistair. He is just loose.

Yeah. And he starts beating the shit out of Dean. Yeah, but out of nowhere. CASS stabs Aleister with that blade that Dean was using before the magic demon plays, and he's like, from far away, he like puts his hand out and it twists the blade. Yeah. And it's like in a, like, shoulder chest area.

Do you have a question? Alistair? Like said like, so close or something like that, when Castile stabbed them? So if Casio had like, gotten his heart or something would he have died?

I guess so. I like that peach.

I am not a fan. We don't recommend the Urial so far.

No shoes. It's weird that like it seems so sweet. But there's no sugar in it.

Yeah, I can't figure out what's going on.

But anyway,

I'll drink it. Obviously, I like the Uriel on the show a lot better than the Urial that drink agreed. This Uriel is turning on me. Yeah. Okay, so yeah, so Castile and Alastair fight?

Yeah, so they start beating the shit out of each other. This was news to us or I don't know about you, but me. But Aleister starts. Like he's saying he can send cash back to heaven and starts chanting in Latin. And like, cast his eyes, flash or whatever was

like lights coming through. Yeah, and that's one of our I told you, I was like, that's why he got so scared in the barn. Because Alistair like tackled him in the barn. And gaseous eyes got really big and he looked really scared. And he tried to exercise him in the barn too. We just didn't know then that that's what he was doing. Now we found out demons can apparently exercise angels and send them back to heaven. Right?

Just like baby just the stronger ones like him.

Just like the white one. Yeah,

there

you go. Yeah, maybe.

Oh, God. Forgot. Sam shows up.

You forgot who saved the de la like really hate Sam now.

I don't hate him. I'm just as you were making noises

every single time he showed up on the screen. It was just every time you

know we can't do it. I'm gonna be strong enough. I could do it. I'm gonna save the day. I showed up. I saved the day.

There was even one point in the episode when you went I don't even know who this motherfucker Yeah,

I don't who is

not your CMA. You said that it's the season premiere.

Still not see and Miss Sam what?

Oh, Jared paddle lucky. Next time we see you you gotta give la that shoulder squeeze she needs to dance it over there. Okay, so Sam says

so yeah, Sam shows up and he with his magical powers. He moves Allister off of cast away slams him up against a wall. Typical.

not typical. I didn't see as much nostril flaring going on as usual. But I guess that's because he drank all the demon blood he didn't need to flare his nostrils as

he demands to to Aleister like who is the demon that's killing these angels and Aleister says, I mean, he's struggling because Sam's fucking them up. But he He reveals that it isn't the angels doing it, and that why would Lilith kill seven angels when he could she could kill 1000s You know that's what she would be doing not seven angels that's a waste of her time. Aleister like taunted him like oh, are you going to exercise me now? And of craft sounds like no, now I can kill so he kills Aleister

I don't think I've ever seen somebody roll their eyes so fucking hard just just so upset I'm sorry.

So then Dean's in the hospital because

whatever he kills Alistair Castile is just like oh

like they've got to watch out for this one now. But yeah, so Dean's real fucked up which I'm like they've been beaten so many times like and he didn't end up in the hospital so it's like I guess I was just real fucking strong to beat the shit out

demon power Yeah, why'd I demon power

and Sam's there Thank goodness he's there with his brother for once instead of Ruby he can very awkwardly cast like walks across the the like the doorway of Dean's room and Sam sees them. And so they meet in the hallway and Dean demands that he gets in there and he'll he'll say, Sam it's not because I get them confused. It's because I have their names on here. So then when? Yeah, so Sam tells Castile to get in there and he'll Dean miracle time he needs to make a miracle happen.

Yep. Got another playground habitat.

Uriel says he's received revelations and that they want him. They want them to stop hunting the demon that's murdering the angels. And Castile thinks, you know, maybe like something's wrong, like something's wrong, is wrong up there. And maybe this isn't our father that's giving us these orders. You know, maybe something's not right. So then Cass meets up with Anna again, he like, kind of like calls for her and she shows up. And he tells her that he is considering

he doesn't know he's a DOM yet.

So Casio goes back to the scene of the crime. And he's looking or actually, you know, after Anna leaves him in the dust, he notices the little water spigot thing outside. And he gets to thinking so he goes back inside to the where everything went down.

And he's looking at the investigation time. Yes,

he's investigating the devil's trap. How this water got started, like, come on. What the hell hotter

valve? Oh, yes. There you go valve. That's the word.

So he realizes it was Uriel and Uriel shows up and he's kind of he doesn't like reveal it at first, but then he kind of lets your old know like, I know, buddy. And now it was you.

Like he's like Uriel tries to be like, I guess Alistair was just stronger than we knew. And see. I was like, No, I made that Devil's trap myself. Yeah, it wasn't Alistair. So who the fuck was it? We Ariel give me the T

proceeds to tell him that. The only thing that can kill an angel is another angel. And his badass blade just like falls out of his arm like out of his arm sleeve.

I was surprised to see like the first angel blade we see like it was Uriel Uriel has the first angel blade of the series.

I don't know anything about that.

They become real big later on. I don't remember why I don't remember how. But I know that I've seen those things before. There's a big silver things. They become a whole thing later.

Okay. Well Uriel divulge is that he has not been murdering these angels. He's doing conversion. He has gone to all of them, asking them to join him. And, you know, he only killed the ones that said no,

yeah, that's it.

That's I mean, that's not really uh, you know, murdering, gave them a choice. And he wants Castile to join him and raise up their brother And Castillo's like Lucifer.

And your heels like yeah, he's so high bro.

No, he didn't say that.

He's so high.

He said that he was Lucifer was punished for defending the angels unfairly. He was shoved down there and how?

Yeah, he was like, Gods favorites. And then it's like he's all pissy and I'm like, Okay, so now the mud monkeys and the plumbing on two legs like it all makes sense. Like Uriel really does hate us. Yeah,

super jelly.

He doesn't like us.

jelly jelly cuz Daddy loves the floor.

No. Well, I don't like your drink. Urial. Me either. It's not good.

Uriel tells Castillo that all he has to do is be unafraid. And join him. And cast tells him for the first time in a long time. He is unafraid. Hmm. And then they fight. Yeah. Angel fight. Yep.

Lots of fights in this one. Yeah, they had had to be a dramatic Angel fight. Like they had to have the two different versions of the drama. There was the verbal drama with the argument. And then they had to go into the physical drama of the fight. And at one point Casio gets thrown into this pillar. And Misha Collins, just like the spin to stand. Little twirl, little twirl. He spins.

He's like a twirl up.

He was like bogeying in his little spin stand. I'm dramatic. I'm an angel. Yeah, that's exactly what that's exactly how it happened.

In the midst of a fight, Castile tells Uriel that he can't win, because Castile still serves God. And you really kind of has him and at one point out of nowhere, some thing someone has stabbed Uriel through the back of the throat,

it went through the same place as the beginning. Yeah. So is that like the only way to spot is that the spot, sweet spot? The angel sweet spot is at the back of your throat.

Okay, okay. We find out that it's Anna that has killed Uriel. And once again, he falls to the ground. And you see his angel wings

delayed though he like falls to the ground. And she goes and helps Cassie yell up. And then he goes like, oh, and like bursts and the light. And then we see the end. That's true. Yeah, you're right. I was curious what that delay was about like, was he like considering whether or not he was going to burst into flames? Like, what what happened?

Maybe he's trying to fight it.

He's trying to like, squish down in his vessel and not be dead. Yeah. It's like, no, no.

No. So Cass goes to visit Dean in the hospital. And he tells Dean about Uriel and everything that happened. And Dean asks Castile if it's true that he was the one that broke the first seal. And Cass confirms that yes, it it's true. Castiel tells him that when they realize lifts plan for him that they went to hell and fought throughout hell trying to get to him, but they were just too late to get there before he broke the seal. Which is sad. Yeah, like, thanks, guys for being fucking late.

Well, I mean, his daddy made it a century. So can you blame them for thinking maybe they had a little bit more time?

I mean, I don't know. And he tells Dean, you know, no, don't blame yourself. You're not to blame. It's fate. It's just fate. And he tells them the righteous man that starts it is the only one that can end it. So and then what is Dean c'est la. He tells me he tells Castile that he can't do it. It's just it's too big. Too big can't do it. He just he doesn't feel like he's up to the task. You know what the big tall order

you normally like the big and tall I do. But that

I mean, just a feel for Dean and all of his fields.

And then Jensen always says he's not strong enough. I'm not strong enough. I can't take it. It's so big. Awful, and then he got really sad and tearful and so I went from bouncing on the couch pretending like I was like, doing stuff. To all of a sudden I was crying and I'm just like, well, the most heartbreaking thing is bouncing off the couch coming is too big LA and then like I sat there and watch for a second I was like, oh, now I'm crying. Like this,

challenge.

Actually, I'm getting not only Jensen Ackles but this cast man. This cast is supernatural. I feel so many things.

But yeah, so it ends with the most heartbreaking comment from Dean Hmm, where he like just quiet. He was like almost saying it to himself, but he's saying it to Castile and he says that I guess I'm not the man that either of our dads wanted

me to be Yeah, I think maybe that's when I started crying. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, that's when the tear fell and I stopped bouncing on the couch and started crying instead. Yeah, that's a little heartbreaking. Yeah, I was really sad.

And that's, that's that that's not

written by me. Ben Edlund and directed by Mike roll. Fun fact that I found about this supposedly, Castile was supposed to have been killed off in this episode. Oh, but due to his popularity, they decided to keep him around. So what did you adore about this episode?

Not Sam let's see

Christopher hire doll for me.

Yeah, he was really good.

So good. I mean he can do things with his facial expressions and just the intensity he can convey. There were times where I was having trouble discerning if it was just Christopher higher doll, or if there was some CGI going on. Oh, really, like especially when he was slammed up against the wall and didn't have the salt and the fake blood and all that other stuff and was having to convey he was in pain. The things he the control he has over his facial expressions just

He did do really well.

So gore. I'm in the goriest of the Gora we had quite a couple of gory items like the angels getting stabbed could be considered Gore but the girl that takes the cake is Christopher higher doll with like the spitting of the blood and the choking on the salt and all that stuff. I think there was even one point where he was like, I think there's something in my throat. I think it's my throat just like gagging on stuff. I mean, he killed it. This was his episode, in my opinion. This is Christopher

It's a little tough to get through. But I will

miss your real the character. So we're coming into the lore yalls outside of more recent fiction. I couldn't find anything on any named torturer of hell. So I looked into what a torturer might do in hell, according to Wikipedia, Whoa,

look at Peda look up.

The Buddhist text sutra on questions about hell mentioned 134 worlds of hell, but was simplified to the 18 levels of hell? In the sutra, on the 18 Hell's Oh, it's for convenience. For convenience. What do you mean? It's just what it says For convenience. Oh, I'm just reading here I see. Some literature refers to 18 types of health or to 18 Hills for each

It's like a little bowl and like you use little thing.

Oh, right. Like that's not fun. Yeah, that's not the kind of pounded I want to be, you know, being ground in a mill being crushed by boulders being made to shed blood by climbing trees or mountains of knives. Oh, having sharp objects driven into their bodies, having hooks pierced into their bodies and being hung upside down. That's what happened to Dean when we saw him in hell. Oh yeah. Drowning in a pool of filthy blood being left naked in the freezing cold being set a flame

Wow. I mean, I gotta say, hell doesn't sound like fun

now. So contrary to many works of art, and these Buddhist texts, according to catholic.com, the tortures of hell experienced by the damned are not at the end of a demon's red hot poker. Nor is God stoking the fires of hell so he can enjoy the suffering and misery of the damned as they roast in internal flames. No, no, no. The tortures of hell are drumroll self imposed the end that's what I got. I didn't see that coming, did you? Oh, my goodness.

Okay, well, to close it out. We got a quote from Castile when he was talking to Anna and he says, I'm considering disobedience. Oh my god, it's too big.

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