Welcome to denim wrapped nightmares tipsy exchange Podcast where we explore the supernatural series episode by episode.
over drinks, we'll discuss the lore of gore and what we adore about the Winchesters and their adventures.
I'm burly, and I'm a new fan of the theory.
I'm LA, and I'm here along for the ride. Now let's get tipsy.
Hello, la Hello Burley. So today's bonus episode is another spotlight. This time we are spotlighting one of the directors instead of one of the cast members. We'll come back to those gorgeous beasts another day. And we chose to spotlight Mr. Kim manners
we did. So he was pretty it seems like from for the first four seasons, he was a pretty integral part of the supernatural world.
I know that you and I like we found ourselves once we started paying attention to who was directing episodes, his name seemed to start coming up, which is why we picked him more and more and more often. And we actually got to where we could spot that. Oh, I bet this is a commander's episode right. Toward the end of season three.
Well, I figure we can go We've watched so we've read some things. We've watched some interviews, and then some of the he was in some of the behind the scenes stuff on the DVDs we've been watching. So I'm going to kind of mishmash it together. So how he got started with the show was by through David Nutter who did the pilot and when they when the dingo,
the wing the ego Yes, episode
to go. He also is the one I told you. He directed a bunch of Game of Thrones. So he's good.
He's like the pilot, Genie like I don't know, there was some cool name that somebody came up with for him that he directed your pilot that you were practically guaranteed to get picked up? Well, I remember when we did season one. It was like a really big deal. But David Nutter did the pilot,
while he has good taste, because he he actually approached him manners and asked him if he would want to come on the show because he actually was semi retired. He did I think 53 episodes of The X Files over seven years.
Yeah. Another excellent show. Right. If
you haven't watched the files, Edwin also feel like a lot of influence on the way he directed this to, you know,
a lot of influence on the writers to like, there are definitely episodes I've seen in supernatural that have been reminiscent of episodes from X Files, I think.
Yeah, he so David asked him to come on. And he's like He said, okay, and his first episode was dead in the water. He said he enjoyed himself. He fell in love with. He said he fell in love with Jan and Dean, or is it Sam and Lenny? And
yeah, that's what he said. You were saying it was a typo. That's what he said. That's funny.
He said he was driving home. And David called him and he was like, on his way to retirement and just turned around and went back into it. And thank you that he did you know, he was also so he was a director and a producer on the show. Executive producer. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And he said that he's the guy who works with the guest directors that come in. And so he would talk to them go through all their homework with them scout locations, help
them with the cast. He felt like there were certain advantages for them and having a producing director on the show to help them out. And since he was on it so much, you know, right, he could lead the way for them. And then when Jensen actually directed for the first time, it's season six, episode four, we're not there yet. We end up Bobby's he attributed much of what he brought to the table from what he learned from manners.
I actually saw somebody post on Twitter recently an article, I think it was a director was talking about working with Jensen Ackles on the series, Big Sky. They specifically were saying that it was obvious Jensen Ackles learned a lot from Kim manners and serge the sweetness. Oh, yeah. Because he could make any
scene work. He understood what the lighting was, what the blocking was, which I've heard on multiple episodes of supernatural then and now the location guy talking about taking him manners to a location and showing him something and then saying, Okay, I have another option for you to look at. And can manners being like, no, it's fine. I've already blocked this. I don't know what
blocking is. But apparently that was a really unique talent that he would go through a location once and be like, I've already got a block.
Yeah, let's like block where where he's gonna put the cameras for like each scene. You know? I think that's what it is.
I don't know. You would know better than me. Wow.
And it was funny. Jenson said that in the first season when he was directing him on the first that first episode, that he went up to Jensen, it was like, You're gonna direct one of these one day. Oh, and Jensen was like, okay, yeah, sure, sure, buddy, okay. And he said Kim was like, No, you will. And when you do, I'll be right there. And he was,
but he wasn't. Oh, God, he wasn't. Oh,
but he was there in spirit.
Yes, definitely. And then I liked this. He was talking about the lack of recognition for Genre TV shows. He said I directed 53 episodes of The X Files and never had a nomination for an Emmy. We went to Golden Globes, we were never nominated for Best Drama me. The people that run the TV industry truly think this is just sci fi nonsense. Today if you're not doing Desperate Housewives or some stupid legal show, or a guy with a cane who's running a hospital, you don't have a great
show. Yeah, quick teach in school where
I agree that some of my favorite stuff has been sci fi horror. Yeah. The fact that there's not a words that acknowledge that, to my knowledge, I mean, maybe there's some indie like award shows that are just for that genre, but I've never heard of it
right. When I feel like excellent was was kind of like a sci fi drama
groundbreaking. Yeah, television that have a lot of drama to it too, though. So
it's like, I'm surprised it wasn't more acknowledged. Yeah. I agree. And it seems like he was like, really in solidarity with the actors. Because one of the videos we watched Jensen was talking about bugs. My least favorite episode ever. And that everybody of the cruel whole crew were in like beekeeper outfits, like safe from the bees. And then they were like, okay, Jordan Johnson get in there with just their costumes.
I guess Kim was like, Well, if you guys are going in without the suits I'm going into so he had like shorts on T shirt and just a monitor and went in there with them with bees crawling all over them. Good man. Badass. I don't know if I could have done it. But I thought this was cute. What he said about Jared Jensen, he said, let's face it if they were dogs, Jensen would be rent huntin and Jared would be Pluto.
Funny. It was cute. It was fun watching the CW interview that we watched and the snippet of the panel that we watched seeing him laugh and show a little bit more personality.
Yeah, he seems like he was really sweet. Yeah, gotta call people sweet too much on this thing.
We use Sweet and Sassy and business a lot. Like I'm trying to think out well, what should How should I put that on a t shirt? Like I'm thinking just Stassi we use it a lot. Yeah. And he did seem sassy. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He seems sassy. But in the bonus features that we watched. He didn't show a lot of personality. Yeah,
he was pretty stoic business.
So it was it was nice. The things that we watched today getting to see him show a little bit more personality. I mean, he was joking quite a bit and turns out he was actually funny just all around a good dude is what it seems like. Yeah.
And I also liked when he was talking about how he called in the boys like we do. And he said that the boys tennis game is gets up every time whenever they work with Jeffrey Dean Morgan or Nikki, a Cox which I thought was really nice, because I mean, those are really memorable episodes with them, you know and that and he said he just said they always step it up when they're with those two,
if I remember correctly, can manners is actually who insisted on casting Nikki A Cox. He had worked with her on The X Files, okay, and just insisted she was the right Actress for the role, rightfully so. Right. She nailed it.
I still don't understand what happened with the narrator of the little video we watched
pissy about some things that about Robert singer,
when he care actually cared about Shaw. Like then went on to talk about how you work with commanders. I was like I am assuming he like, because it's
both looking at each other like what? Yeah, oh, very out of we just moved past it. We didn't say anything, because we didn't want to miss anything from the video. But I was just like, what, what?
I was taken aback, but I think he's alluding to the fact that they talked about the first four seasons, though camerawork that Kim manners brought to the show and how he changed up the dynamic of it and everything. After he makes it a point to say after that, not so much. Yeah,
we were like, Thanks, guy. Yeah, we're really looking forward to the rest of our journey now. Thank thanks.
I guess he's blaming Robert singer.
Oh, no, man, but I do get what he's talking about because I feel like that's how you and I started to spot like, Oh, I bet can manners directed definitely just the unique angles he would do? Like from kind of up in the corner coming down. on an angle or downlow coming up at an angle and all the close ups he would
do. And they did say something in the video about how he worked with shadows which I've never put together in my own mind but the second he said that I knew what he was talking about right then lighting and Kim manners episode stood apart. Yeah,
I think they called it like his, his when they say he always kept the camera dynamic and that he was always willing to go the extra mile and get the right shots. I also liked how he was saying which I think we touched on this before that it wasn't like they were just doing a procedural that they're in the same room like same set no like a procedural drama. Like like where like like when he referenced house like they're always in the hospital. They're
always in a hospital room. And like just or they're always in like if it's a family man. Like can't talk
Ally McBeal you're always in the bathroom. Why are we always in the bathroom?
Yeah, or like a court for like the law Yeah, shows or whatever. He said he would kill himself. Yeah, he did. He said really? They're filming like films, every episode little small movies, basically, not just, you know, the other stuff other people were doing. He unfortunately was diagnosed with lung cancer in the fourth season after filming had already started. And the last episode he directed was metamorphosis in late 2008, and he died on January 25 2009. In Los Angeles.
Oh, so fast. I know. The manners family requested in lieu of flowers. Donations be made to the American Cancer Society in memory of Kim, and supernatural fans on Live Journal donated 1650 to the American Cancer Society within a week of his death. Wow. Good job, guys. Okay, hang it. Bear with me. This is a long quote from Jim Beaver. But we love him. We love Bobby and Kim. So yeah, and this is what he said on the death of
him. He said, It is with an extraordinarily heavy heart that I report the deaths last night, January 25 of my friend Kim manners I first met him when he directed me in an episode of The X Files, for which he was a major figure in the appeal of the show its look, style and movement. I thought in that few days that I had found one of the great directors I'd ever worked with, and a mention of the First Order. Little did I know.
Several years later, I ended up with a rare reoccurring role on Supernatural where Kim was both an executive producer and principal director. I've never had such fun working with a director and Kim became a dear friend. He was the wheeling butt of the enormous humor on the set. Most of it from the two leads Jensen and Jared, who delighted and tormenting him, and he was as good at giving it
as taking it. He was an amazing director who knew everything I can imagine a director might need or want to know about directing television. And he was one of the very best people one of the very best friends a person might ever want to have. His illness since the beginning of this supernatural force season has cast a pall over the Paul pa all over the show for
months now. And every time I have appeared on the show this season, someone has broken down in tears and discussing KidsHealth or how much we missed him.
Gonna get a little teary. Jim Beaver given us a word of the day,
I will go to my grave regretting the very real opportunities I missed and connecting with him these last few months. Take a lesson from one who let a dear friend down badly. My only excuse is that I like all who knew him never believed anything could take them down. I loved him dearly. And I hope he knows that. And that he said, All right now, kick in the ass action. Rest in peace. Chum
kicking in the ass was what he said before his episodes and whatnot that actually made me tear up
a lie. No. That was very sweet. I know. And then they mentioned that there's a bunch of tributes and episodes after his death.
Well, we saw on the video that in the last episode of the series, they went to the Kim manners was at the memorial tree was a beautiful tree. They wasn't in one of the episodes. Yeah, they said it was the last episode of the series. Yeah, we so aren't there yet. Definitely. Okay, we got the word of the day. Paul Paul. So you were right, meaning a dark cloud or covering of smoke dust or similar matter.
And on this web, I mean, you'll probably post this but yeah, I'll post the links on Tumblr. Like there was one and bloodlust, one of their name badges of the hospital said Jay manners. There's a picture of him with the girl that plays young Willis. Oh, and then there's a picture of him with that tree. Oh, yeah. There's a long list of all the tributes on the different episodes of what they did for him.
Yeah, we're looking at the supernatural wiki. I will post this link in our tumblr so if you guys want to go and check out more information, you can. LA and I took the list of 17 episodes directed by Kim manners. And we whittled it down to what have the potential to be our favorites. And we narrowed it all the way down from 17 to 11. And even that, there were a couple of episodes we took off that we probably could have left on. Where we were going back and forth on whether or not to
remove it. And we just were like, Okay, we got to remove more online. But we got down to 11. And we had to put it we had to put an end to it. We couldn't whittle it down anymore. The episodes that we wanted to chat about his first episode, season one episode three dead in the water.
I still remember that scene of Dean pulling that boy out of the water so dramatically, right? The
Slow Mo Yeah. And just having to work with water in general. There was a lot of water stuff he had to do. I imagine that was fairly complicated.
Yeah. Like the girl who had her head went and did the sink. You know? How many times did she have to fill in that? Right? You know
how many times I had to reset that? Hopefully not many or the bathtub scene. if I'm remembering correctly, I think Amy Acker said on Supernatural then and now just how comfortable she was for that bathtub scene. heard plenty of other stories from actresses on sets where they were in a similar position and were not made to feel comfortable right at all. Well,
that's like a one thing that Jared No, Jensen mentioned. The what's the episode where Sam gets stabbed?
And he dies. That was all hell breaks loose. And then
the next one, where it's just like, Jen Dean's on the note.
That was still all hell breaks loose. All hell breaks loose. There was a part one and a park to high. Park to
Yeah, well, it's this the scene where Jensen is like doing a monologue talking to dead Sam. And he said that he was real nervous about it and talk to Kim about it. And Kim ended up putting like black tarps everywhere. And I think it was just him and Kim and Jared, he like got through the scene like that. So it was like, because he knew he was so nervous about it was nice that he liked he was like everybody, like Back Back off, let him just do this focus
in and get it done. And I think Denise say, only like four takes or something. So he obviously cares about his actors and how they, you know what they need to feel comfortable to get through to get what they need.
And he wants to get them to that point, too. Because I did think it was cute. In one of the little panels that were featured. Ken manners was talking about one of his favorite episodes that he did was shadow talking about the hotel scene that you and I first went, Okay, we see why See, some people have interpreted this relationship as potentially romantic. You could tell how commanders was talking about it and how important it was to him to get that scene to be tense.
He did not intend for that tension to be perceived as sexual or romantic. But he worked to get that tension there. So our question of who got it like it was good matters. And that's how he wanted it. He wanted it to be tense like that. And he did what he needed to to get both of his actors there and give not just the performance, not just the lines, not just hit your mark, but to create the emotion and the reaction from his audience that he wanted for
that scene. Yeah, so I thought that was really interesting to hear him talking about it. And you could see how excited he was when he was talking about it.
He said that was like one of his favorite episodes to do so.
And that episode was shadow. But she definitely played a lot with white and shadow in that episode. It was really well done really artistically done. Of course Nikki A Cox and they're just killing it. Scarecrow was actually before shadow and season one. And you really liked scarecrow.
Oh my god. Yeah. Then like cute little town. But the evil people. Yeah, they were just okay with what was going on. They're hiding it.
Some of the Kim manners angles, so to speak. Like I remember one from behind the Scarecrow over his shoulder angled down where you could see Dean looking up at it. And you could see like the hair on the Scarecrow. I think that that was the scene where Dean was like you're fugly? Yeah, yeah. You know, just those unique camera angles.
There's a lot with the lighting and that one too. And then when they were in the forest and at night and all that that was good, too.
He played really well with the darkness of season one and two, like that D saturated book that search the sweetness did. You could tell that he he knew what he was working with. Yeah, a lot of stuff. Or at least I guess I can't say you can tell because I don't know. But it appeared that way that he was playing with that desaturated under Standing that's what it was going to visually look like. The season one finale Devil's trap that was
one I really liked. I thoroughly enjoyed that was one of the first episodes that I was like getting up out of my seat so excited about stuff. I particularly liked the blocking now that I know what that word means, in the cabin, when John Winchester was Azazel. Even from the beginning when we didn't know he was Azazel yet just where the focus of the camera would be, and some things would be unfocused, and just really directing the audience to what they needed to be paying
attention to. And, again, just using the angles and the lighting and his actors to create that feeling of something's not right, and not really understanding why. But just knowing something like we were right there with Dean, we knew something wasn't right. We didn't know why. And it was just it was really exciting. I thoroughly enjoyed all of that. And the end of that episode when they're driving in the Impala and out of nowhere that 18
Wheeler comes in smashes car. I really enjoyed that shot too. It's funny, they love
18 Wheeler smashing,
it was a cool angle. No, I mean, have I seen an angle like this before in other shows where it's just like showing from the driver's side window? And it was Yeah, I have but I just I enjoyed it. Yeah, and the tension that was being built up in the episode because John was pissed that they didn't kill him in order to kill the demon and just you're distracted by this fighting that's happening between SAM D and and John, that the 18th will it just really felt like it came out of
nowhere? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then the season two premiere and my Time of Dying, aside from Dean having on pants, which la still hasn't forgiven him for no.
Who, who was the costume designer that day?
Who decided that we're not realistic? That you're given a V neck and scrubs? Obviously it was the camera angles were cool. Like whenever Dean was on the table and things like that, but it felt like a different camp that can manners episode, like even looking back if I didn't know Kim manners directed that one. I don't know if I would have guessed it. I can see that. It seemed like he he adapts to when he is in those fixed location type things. Then we did get some weird shots.
Like when he was down in the basement.
I was gonna say that's where I felt like I have you could see a little bit more of him. Yeah, down the basement with the lighting and the action and angles. Yeah. But the rest of it. I get your point. I see it.
Yeah. And then we have Season Two no exit. Which Where's Joe? Where is she? We lost Bella. Like, Joe needs to pop back up. Yeah, come on. Where are you at? No exit. Not one of my favorite episodes as far as storyline, but the weird sewer, whatever place there were some really cool interesting angles done in there like showing Joe in the little cage thing where HH Holmes goes through her or the really close. Close up shot of the eyeball. Oh, yeah. And that one grain?
Yeah. Yeah, it's gross hands.
chubby fingers. Yeah. That was a really well done like horror episode.
Like, well, and I like that they brought in kind of like a little real life history. The real killer. Well, that was
one of the writers. Well, true. True. And then season two episode 17 heart. That was one of your favorites. That sex scene.
Oh, shit. Well, I was mostly excited about Sam getting some. Unfortunately, that wasn't gonna work out for him though.
You really liked the sexy and I remember you like you were really appreciative of the close ups. We were getting Sam's arms. Yeah. And some of the awkward angles whenever they were in the weird ex boyfriends house where we were getting the angle that was clearly supposed to be from the monsters perspective. I liked those. Yeah. Which we saw in the next episode from season three fresh blood. And he put
that red filter on it. I don't know if that was his color surge the sweetness where it was the red, like night vision but it was red. Oh, yeah. From Gordon's perspective.
Oh, yeah. Cuz he's had to be now. That was kind of cool though.
That was really cool. And that was another episode where I was like, out of my seat. Almost every episode where I was out of my seat and like, oh my god was a kid manners episode. But yeah, fresh blood. That's one of my favorite Yeah, of the series. So far. It was so well done. The interesting close ups. I really love that scene where it's just Sam and Gordon. And Gordon's like stalking Sam and it's really well done. And then the next episode that was Kim manners that we have on our
list. Again, he did 70 And these were just a lovin was season three, Episode 11 Mystery Spot. I forgive Mr. Manners for the lack of lower body from the trickster. Oh my God, His lower body should be shrined. But can manners is about the close ups and all of that. So it's like, okay, all right, I get it. And there were some really interesting things he did within
this. And again, just the way this episode was depressing and funny, and like, really well balanced and balanced the deaths with being comical and slightly cartoonish, but also believable. I don't I still don't understand really how he achieved that and who else played into that? But I've heard people talk about Mystery Spot Mystery Spot Mystery Spot, and it's just, it was such a good episode. It was so well done.
I think he did a good job. Like he was saying like how he never wanted to be like, in the same location over and over. And it's like they were in this one. Obviously, it was different each time but he kept it fun and interesting.
And even though it was different each time he still kept it where it felt like Sam was living the same day over and over again, but the angle was different or this was different rash. And then the last episode we have on our list is Lazarus rising.
So good,
so I'll turn that just that gas station scene at the opening alone. Different angles. I mean, that was a tiny ass little I think every angle you could have gone from he hit a shot from there. Just how long did it take to film that opening scene?
No.
just phenomenal.
I feel like it was it was very bookended like that first scene was really good. And then the last scene in the barn with Castile
again the barn. It was just one big room. Right and yet the dynamic camera blocking just Oh, and again the lighting I feel like it's riding. Yeah, I mean, just phenomenal. Yeah, I'm disappointed. We aren't gonna see any more episodes directed by him even though I am looking forward to seeing directors we haven't gotten to see yet
true. On one of the behind the scenes things that we watched on one of the DVDs I think one of the prop guys that worked on the cars, the different cars he said he mentioned that commanders was a badass and was his hero. Yeah, I thought that was sweet. Everything sweet, you know?
We're sad. We're not going to see any more episodes directed by him but damn did the episodes he did direct really have an impact. They were amazing.
At least we have those. So to close it out. This was Kim manners, philosophy about work, and he said we spend way too much time with each other not to enjoy each other's company. Oh, it's true.
It is true. Oh my cheer. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you for listening to denim wrapped nightmares.
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