Reimagining the Future with Angela Glover Blackwell

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: Well, thank you, and I am delighted to be in conversation with you. Looking forward to this great know.

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: Oh, thanks for that question. It's an easy one for me to answer. The hard part is making it short, because 50 plus years is a long time to review. But I can shorten it, and it sounds like much more of a straight, deliberate lines than it actually was, but the telling it is pretty accurate. I grew up in a segregated Saint Louis, Missouri in the 1950s and the early 60s. Had the experience of segregation having a positive impact on my life. Because I grew up in the middle class black community, which was pretty vast in Saint Louis. And those adults did everything they could to protect us from the sting and burn of racism and provide us with access to the best that Saint Louis had to offer in terms of the outdoor opera, the zoo, all kinds of things that we were experiencing because they sort them out and created a safe environment in which we could experience it. But inside the community, the schools, the churches, the neighborhood associations, it was all black. It was all about making sure the children could reach their full potential. I talk about it as living in a community in which the adults created scaffolding that allowed us, even as we were locked out of the mainstream, to move up, have experiences and try to do what we wanted to do in life. That actually, and I went from there to Howard University. So my black experience continued after I left Saint Louis and continued in that same kind of supportive way. And so I must say, while I watched my parents participate in the civil rights movement and admired it greatly, it was coming out of college into the Black Power movement that really got my juices flowing, because I had built my humanity so cherished and valued that the civil rights stuff just seemed like what ought to be. But the notion of celebrating blackness tied to an economic analysis demanding power. That's where I entered in. I'd never stepped out of that, even as my strategies and targets have moved from time to time. So I came out of college and I was an organizer for seven years. New York, LA, got married during that time. And actually got to the point where I felt that the excitement that I could bring talking on a street corner in Harlem or in a church in LA, I wanted to do more with it. And so I decided to become a public interest lawyer. And so I yeah, that's what I want to add to it. And I assumed that I would come out and work for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund of the ACLU, because that's what I saw public interest lawyers doing. And it was such a gift to land it. Public advocates, a general public interest law firm, because it exposed me to the connections between the issues I came with to consumer issues, to the rights of the elderly, to the rights of people with disabilities. I began to see a broader issue canvas, because of the general nature of the public interest law firm. But I miss community, and I missed being able to be in total partnership with the people whose lives I was focused on. And my last case, Public Advocates, was actually one that challenged the requirement to have automobile insurance or lose your driver's license. Community group came to me to say they couldn't get automobile insurance because of the redlining in the communities where they lived, and if they got it, it would have been more than they could afford. I bought a lawsuit about it. It got all the way to the California Supreme Court, and I did not win, even though the justices were mighty interested in that argument. And the reason is because poverty is not a suspect classification. And and it wasn't you couldn't make the case that they were being denied the driver's license because they were black.

Right?

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: It was because they didn't have insurance. I had made a very clever argument about that being a due process violation, because it was a taking of property based on insurance that you didn't get with, but it didn't work. That's when I decided I was going to get back into community, where I could really work at the intersection of race and poverty. Started the Urban Strategies Council, did that for seven years. Develop community building has a strategy with people all across the country who were understanding that you had to do this in total partnership with community. That led to eventually founding Policy Link, doing national policy from the wisdom, voice and experience the people who were working for change in their lives. That's my journey.

It's interesting... ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: I told you it was hard to do it. It's short period.

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: The story that I've been telling about my life in this, so many issues and dramatic things that have happened along the way, all of those things really have led me to see both what's been going wrong and an amazing opportunity. What's been going wrong is that the system is just rigged against people who are poor and of color, that all of the successes that I've been a part of, and I have to say, a part of, because no success happens because of one person or one organization. But when we have had success, it has been we've been able to do something in spite of what the systems were set up to do. And when a leader goes away or a foundation starts funding it, so often what we had achieved just fizzles. And when we're lucky enough to get people into elected office who we were fighting for in the community, once they got in the system, inevitably there was disappointment. So I've come to realize that democracy has been a promise and an assumption in terms of the systems in which we were operating that is not delivered justice. And at the same time that any analysis of what's wrong is going to take you to one that looks at the context of economic reality and democratic possibility. If you think about where we are now, the excitement is that those democratic ideals that we've been learning about all this time, they were developed by the framers of the nation who were enslavers, who were setting up economic systems for exploitation in the most vile ways. And yet they leaned into some ideas about governing of the people, by the people and for the people, for liberty and justice and freedom that were good ideas. And I have come to just accept that. They punched above their moral weight, they punched way above their moral weight. And we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Those are some good ideas, and we need to be thinking about how to breathe life into them. And what's exciting about this moment is democracy is in trouble. And because it is in trouble, it is on the table. And people have to have a reason now to want to have it. But you kind of have to choose democracy. It's not like we're just born into a nation that claims to be democratic, and we've got it. We're going to have to choose it. And in order to choose it, we're going to have to create it, define it and figure out what it's for. And so I've been thinking for some time that I wanted to really focus on what's the story about democracy for the future, and what are the people who have a huge stake in the future doing to be able to make it real? And that led me to thinking about doing the podcast that lifted up the basic tenets of democracy and helped to tell a story about if democracy survives, it will be because it is a thriving multiracial democracy. And what are we going to do with that?

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: As we were thinking about how to formulate the podcast, what we realized we wanted to lift up and breathe life into was a radically inclusive, thriving, multiracial democracy in service of human flourishing that can lead to a good life. However you would define a good life. And I was talking to my friend Kent Wong right after Karen Bass got elected, because he was so involved in her election, and he was talking about all of the things that had happened in Los Angeles in terms of people who were leading in the labor front, people who were leading at the state level. And I began to think, the story of Karen Bass getting elected mayor, given who she is and who she has determined to remain being as she has emerged through various positions, her winning against somebody who outspent her almost 11 to 1. It's really quite a good story. Yeah. And so I thought, maybe this whole notion that of what we want to lift up could be portrayed by telling the story of Karen and how she got elected, and so decided to focus on LA and began the conversation and probably in the beginning, thought that we do it with just a series of interviews, interviewing a different person for each episode. But when we started talking to people in LA, it was clear that so many people would lean into the history, particularly the 1965 rebellion and the 1992 uprising around Rodney King. A lot of people talked about what it was like to live in, segregated Los Angeles and to experience trying to integrate Los Angeles. Lots of interesting stories about the impact of organizing. I realized every single aspect of what I was looking for was right there. And while I knew people would question LA because LA, like any big city, has the problems that we all can list, but wanted to try to tell this story in a way that wasn't suggesting Nirvana, wasn't suggesting perfection, but suggesting here are elements that people are consciously working for and with in Los Angeles and getting results, particularly what it means to have someone in the mayor's office committed to governing for human flourishing, which is exactly her agenda.

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: When I've have watched people who have struggled personally to make sure that they have dealt with their own demons and prejudices and blind spots, to be able to really be servant leaders. And when I have listened to the people in LA critique themselves as they saw Los Angeles burned in 1992 after the Rodney King verdict, and realize that whatever the work was they were doing hadn't been enough, hadn't touched the people, wasn't making the change that was needed. As I watched how people reach out to not just work in coalitions, but help those coalitions have the staying power. The. They need for the future. I am struck by how generous it is to do work in that way. And so I really wanted to lift up. And when I start off the first one which is called Democracy Dreaming, really kind of identifying these people, talking about their aspirations, what I think is not well understood, is particularly not well understood by a huge swath of this country that is white and fearful and confused. Is that the people who are of color, leaning into their leadership, try to build the power to be able to make change so that we can govern for humankind to do better and reach its full potential. Are doing this for the whole, doing it for the greater society, and doing it in a way that has an authenticity and urgency and based in need. That's going to keep inventing as we go along until it really works as a societal way to operate rather than something in a corner. And so I founded in Los Angeles, yeah, I found it with people I had known for long times and people I hadn't known for at all before, and what I found. And if I can just go through the series a little bit because it really comes out, it starts with democracy dreaming. But then the first one after that is, there's no I in leader, and I just talk to people like Manuel Pastore and Anthony Thigpen and Robin Kelly and and others. Denise Fairchild, who when you hear them talk, it is never about them. It is always about the cause. It is about the organization. It is about the goal. And that's the driver. And when that's the way you come at it, you are constantly peeling back the onion, constantly getting more and more to the core of what it's about. There's no I in leader, but once people realized that they wanted to really work across race because they had often started off working in the black community or the Asian community or the Latin community, they realized to make change they had to work across race. But just build a multiracial coalitions wasn't enough. They also had to build power. And so when people start building power, that's when you really see whether this is going to be generous or is it not? And the LA leaders realized that they had to be power for generosity, power for broad change, power that broad coalitions could see their benefit in getting involved and looking at how Anthony Thigpen and his colleagues were able to really focus on making sure that investments in Los Angeles like the Staples Center, like Dreamworks, things that were going to bring real money to some investors, making sure that they also bring real opportunity to the people who are often left out in California. And to do that across the board, not just for one community, that's generosity. Then when you think about how that power building for change gets impacted, taking on issues like Prop 15 in California, which was an attempt to try to get more tax dollars to come into the California coffers and focus on education, that wasn't just for Los Angeles. That was for the entire state to be able to think about education in taxes in a new way. So I think this this series really does add to my already hard held notion that the leaders for tomorrow, they are going to take us to a good place, bring a generosity that we really have not fully understood.

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: I will, but first I have to say something about Jesse Jackson, because just yesterday I was speaking to about 50 students from historically black colleges and universities that are here in San Francisco for the HBCU summer that the city of San Francisco is having. And I told them a story about when Jesse Jackson was running for president, and he gave that amazing speech at the Democratic convention, what that meant to me. And so just yeah. So Jesse Jackson, we should tell him how much he comes up. I'm sure you have had a chance to tell him that.

No, I knew that 84 convention speech, word for word by heart. And I just actually got this new art piece to my house. I don't know if, you know, Gee's Bend Collective does this. ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: Oh, of course. Yes. Of course.

So I've got a Gee's Bend quilt, from Alabama, and I was trying how to figure out how to incorporate Jesse into some of the art I was trying to do in my house. I had to renovate it as I've tried to in a move to the next phase of my life. And it came to me on this plane, and I was this from that speech that you're talking about, there's this line that Jesse has in that speech and in his 88 speeches. America is not like a blanket, one piece of unbroken cloth, the same color, the same texture, the same size. America is more like a quilt. Many patches, many pieces, many colors bound by a common thread. So I have taken, I've had commissioned somebody to take that quote and put it around the outside of this Gee's Bend quilt. And so that's the centerpiece of my living room on my house right now.

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: Oh my goodness. You must make sure that I get to see it. Yeah!

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: That's sounds fabulous. But to answer your question, it is fundamental. People have tried to isolate the calls for justice. It's been a cry for justice for black people, as opposed to understanding that the cry for justice, if we get it right, is justice for all. And a way that I have finally been able to talk about that, so that people begin to see it, is through this notion of the curb cut. And I came to thinking about the curb cut, because I recognize that the work that we've been doing at Policy Link, which was to advance an equity agenda, just and fair inclusion into a society in which all can participate, prosper and reach their full potential. And we were advancing that agenda with a focus on racial equity. And as the demographics of the country began to change, or when it became obvious that they were changing and changing faster than people had originally anticipated, it seemed that what was going on is that, that equity agenda, which was really focused on making sure this people who had been kept behind could have a way to be able to reach their full potential. You know, it was an agenda that was going to impact people who made up the majority of those in the country, so that for most of my youth, I mean, when I came out of college, I suspect that probably 80% of the people who lived in the United States were white. And we are now at a point where by 2044 or so, the majority will be of color. But already the majority of babies born since 2012 were of color, the majority of all children under 18 of color. By 2030, the majority, the young workforce will be of color already. If you're looking for who was going to be the home buyers, the entrepreneurs, the students, the workforce, it's all being driven by people of color. So all of a sudden, it seems, though, it's been quite gradual in the coming. But all of a sudden, the people who had been left behind systematically in this country will determine the fate of the nation, so that the equity agenda becomes an agenda that will make the entire nation stronger if we get it right. And so the curb cut began, became my way of talking about that, because those cut outs in the sidewalk that are there because of the advocacy of people with disabilities in wheelchairs benefit all. Whether you're a father pushing a stroller and you don't have to pick up that contraption, or you're a worker pulling a cart, or you're a parent of a seven year old new bike rider who can traverse the neighborhood sidewalk, the sidewalk, without riding in the street. You benefit from those curb cuts. Nine out of ten unencumbered adults cross the street at the corner because of the orientation of the curb cut. It is a classic example of when you solve a problem with nuance and specificity, focusing on those who have been most marginalized, made most vulnerable by society. The benefits cascade to all. And the same is true when you look at how to be able to think about our economy. When you think about education, whatever the topic is, if we get the equity agenda right, if we get the curb cut right, everybody will benefit. And so that's just true. But when you think about people who are moving into political power, like Justin Jones in Tennessee, like Karen Bass in Los Angeles, like so many people you've been working with, Steve, what we have are people who are coming into this understanding that fundamentally, the reason that they and their communities have been so burdened in trying to make a way is because the system has been, designed for injustice. It's been designed for inequality. It's been designed for inequity. And as we try to apply through nuance and specificity, the things that we need to do to be able to change all of that so that everybody's life can be one of flourishing. We bring an agenda that is made look like it's specially tailored to a particular group, but only by tailoring to that group can we get at those fixtures and features in the system that keep the system from being able to fully provide for all. And so that relates to the generosity, but it also relates to the fact that we are looking at a set of leaders who will use that generosity to lead for the whole in an authentic, transformative way that will finally have democracy living up to its full potential, particularly as democracy and economy join together to produce fairness and justice.

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: Yes. That it is hard to do. I know that it is hard to do. I have to, have a talk with myself in order to be able to do it quite frequently. I will just point this out to go back into the podcast, that the podcast is put together in a way that leads right to that. That last one after the one, there's no we in power. The next one is labor of love. Because what that is about is how what's one of the things special about Ella is this really become the center of the new labor movement? Because the people who are service workers, hotel workers, janitors, people who are, really the ones who, while they have a foot in labor, their other foot is solidly in communities that are in pain and suffering and struggling. And so labor and community finding each other in LA found each other around the things that have to come together for the kind of change I was just talking about. And they did come together. And not only are they doing things that are improving labor and bringing the power of labor to community issues, this part of what got Karen Bass and others from LA in the positions that they are in. And so in that last chapter of the podcast, Hope is a discipline so inspired by Mariame Kaba and those words. Putting those words together just meant the world to me in so many ways. When I heard them, it made me think of two things. The first is it takes discipline to be hopeful, but that hope. There is a discipline that is hope, a discipline that has you looking at the history to understand how did we get here? What led up to this, the discipline of thinking historically, as you're looking at your challenge in the future and in the present, in thinking about the future, the discipline of gathering the data, who's in the same circumstance, who's not, are things improving or their getting worse? Is it geographically based? Is there something else going on? Using that data to get a clearer picture of than now? Then asking what works? You show me a problem and I can show you a place somewhere where somebody is doing something about that problem. Lifting up what works is one of my favorite things what works? Find it out what works. Seeing the elements of it, understanding the leadership for it. Looking at how you can think about all of these things. To be able to create something new, and then to ask, what's my role? What am I doing? What am I doing in my leadership? What am I doing with my organization? What am I doing in my neighborhood? What am I doing with my boat? That discipline of history, data, what works, leadership, thinking about systems change, assigning yourself about what it is that needs to happen. That discipline inevitably is going to bring about hope. And so I think that people right now need to make sure they are asking themselves, what am I doing other than wring in my hands and worrying about the future? Who am I talking to? I talk to young people all the time who are angry and upset and discouraged and don't see a reason to vote. My conversation with them is, I'm going to vote and I'm voting for you. Because as bad as I think things could get, it's not going to be me will suffer because of it. It's going to take a little while to sit in. I may not even be here. I'm thinking about you. I'm voting for you, so you can vote for you too. And you can be thinking about what that means. But who you going to be voting for? If things go down, it's voting. It's thinking about when you have differences with organizations and colleagues you can't have that make you stop or walk away. You work through it because we're doing something here, we're going someplace and I need you. So we're going to work through it. It has you understanding that we have to hold the people we elect accountable, but we have to be strategic as we're doing that as well. That kind of hope gives you something to do in the most perilous of times that makes you see there is a way forward.

Here, here. Woo!

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: Well, one thing people are asking me now, because it's been almost six years. If it hasn't, perhaps it's been six years since I stepped out of the role of being CEO of Policy Link and into the role of being founder in residence. And I'm proud of the fact that I stepped out of being CEO because I was loving it wasn't like I was tired or I was done or the organization was going down. It was going steadily up. But I felt that having been the CEO for 20 years, having done a lot in that 20 years, that it was time for the organization to get some new leadership and go the next step. I'm grateful that I was able to stay connected and I'm doing all the things. But Michael McAfee has done a fabulous job, some of which of what I hoped he would do and things that I never would have dreamed of. Which is exactly why you want new leadership. But I have been almost as busy as. And so a couple of people have said to me, well, don't you ever have any hobbies? And I have thought, it's not that I never had any hobbies, it's that I never had a job. You know, I my whole life I have been doing what I wanted to do. It's been creative, it's been rewarding. It's been, it's been social. It's been so much that was fulfilling that it is. How did you step away from that. And so I think that it is important, Steve, to embrace the joy of struggle. And I think that's what kept me going without always realizing it. It's only recently the young people have taught me to use the language of joy, but I realize I have always embraced the substance of joy. And because of that, it is easy to keep going. It is, more likely to be able to practice the discipline of hope. It is more likely to be. You're more likely to be satisfied by your contribution. My contribution now that was mostly one of inspiring lifting up what others are doing, trying to frame the messages is trying to offer discipline of hope. I'm not doing the housing work or the transportation work. I was saying to my husband, it's amazing that I'm still on email so much, because it's not often that people send me documents to edit. I used to do that way into the night, day in and day out. I'm doing different things, but it's all a part of my life, a fulfilling life. And what I'm hoping, really hoping is that people will understand this is for the long haul. That and young people in particular, I have seen so much progress. I have seen progress that I never even expected to see. And I have I'm seeing and have seen retrenchment that I never thought would occur. But when I add it all up, I can see that the people who have struggled have made a difference. It made a difference. And I think that the reason things feel so bad right now is that we're on the cusp of a big difference, which is where the push back is so hard and so fierce. And we gotta understand that it doesn't mean that we're going to prevail, but it does mean that we have made extraordinary progress, because what used to get ignored is on the minds of people who don't want justice every day, because they know we're on the cusp. And when we finally get it, it's going to be extraordinary for the broader society and will probably have a long life. But we gotta get it.

Right.

ANGELA GLOVER BLACKWELL: Oh, I don't know, I think there's, you know, I don't know. Where do you learn more? Oh, how about this. Go on the policylink.org to make that org website. And you can find about all the things that I've done with so many partners over the years and where things are going forward. And please, wherever you get your podcasts, please listen to Re-imagining Democracy for a Good Life and let me know what you think about it. Thank you all so much.

All right. That was your dose of optimism and inspiration to sustain you throughout the summer. And, that's all the time we have for today for this podcast and want to thank you for listening to Democracy in Color with Steve Phillips. Please help us get the word out about this podcast by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts, sharing with your friends, tweeting at Democracy Color and at SteveP tweets, and finding us at Democracy in Color on Facebook or Instagram. You can also keep up with all things Demco by subscribing to our newsletter at Democracy in color.com. If you listen to our podcast on iTunes, please leave us a rating and a comment that helps others find our show. This podcast is a democracy in color production. Our producer is Olivia Parker. Fola Onifade is our staff writer and associate producer. Sharline Chiang is our editor and co-hosts. Special thanks to April Elkjer for a quality check. Recorded virtually. The assistance of the Podcast Studio, San Francisco. Until next time, keep the faith.