Inertia.js (with Joe Tannenbaum)

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to DejaVue.

Your favorite view podcast. You just don't know it yet. I'm here with Joe Tannenbaum and Alex, my co host. You may have seen him here before. And we've got a lot of interesting things here to talk about today. Laravel, Inertia, JS, you know, some great stuff.

Exactly. So Joe is a software engineer at Laravel at your open source team as well. He's a public speaker, so you might have seen, 1 or 2 or 3 or more talks of him, maybe at Laracon, recently. Also, everything is linked in the show notes and description. Maybe you've also seen his Larica series about, terminal UIs, if you're into that.

I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate appreciate it.

Of course. Of course. So maybe let's start with the obvious thing. Being a software engineer at Laravel, how is that going? Laravel, maybe for anyone not familiar with the framework, maybe let's just start with what is Laravel and, yeah, how it is working on the open source team there?

Sure. It's, fantastic. Laravel is, one of the biggest PHP frameworks out there, and, it's full featured. It's stable. It's mature.

Perfect. So yeah. How how long how long are you, like, around with Laravel? When do you start using it? Maybe start using it first time professionally? When when did your Laravel journey start there?

My Laravel journey started, I believe, in 2014, maybe a little earlier. I think it was 5.4, so we're now at, 11 something. So, I've been around for a while. It was suggested to me, I think, I was on CodeIgniter before that if anybody knows PHP frameworks at all. Yep.

Sweet. Yeah. I remember, like, it's it's very funny because I also started dabbling into coding letter, like, a little bit, and I was like

Mhmm.

Not sure. And I discovered Laravel back then in time, before, like, doing only JavaScript nowadays.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's it's pretty amazing. Also, like, I think 5.5, 5.6, something like that was was one of the last versions I was, on and still have projects in Laravel that are just there and need a little bit of maintenance here and there, but, like, yeah, it's it's crazy what the framework all gives. And it's in a way interesting that that that's a thing in in PHP that you get, like, authentication, for example, that you just get the queues and jobs workers, everything out of the box if you need it and and everything around it.

Yeah. It's it's nice to have a lot of decisions made for you for common things that you need, like auth, like Queue, like the ORM. And then also, there's a whole ecosystem of very stable packages that you can choose from if you want to go a different way with it. So you still have the choice, but I can scaffold up, like, a fully auth app connected to whatever database driver I want in in under a minute. Like, it's done.

Yeah. That sounds amazing. And it sounds so different than the JavaScript side of things where you're like, okay. Like, like, like Alex was saying, you gotta figure out, you have to spend hours just deciding which auth provider am I going to use? Oh, and then which, which package to connect to that? You know, like, how am I going to and then you have to actually set it up. And then you're like 2 days later, you're like, sweet. I got my auth. Now I gotta

I got the base going. So let's go now let's build the thing. Yeah. And

then you deploy it, and then you find out, oh, it only worked locally and then not yeah. And then you

have to

kind of this whole Yep.

Oh, like, it's like okay.

The different run times. And then, oh, yeah. Common JS and ESM, and, oh, there's incompatibility there. It's sometimes, it's like a real pain.

Yeah.

I think that's why the starter kits are so popular. Right? Because people don't wanna make those decisions all the time. They just want something plug and play that works. And so that's they seem to be quite popular right now. The the starter kits in the JS ecosystem.

That's absolutely true.

Does Laravel have starter kits or is it just a starter kit unto itself? Because it has so many things like right out of the box.

Yeah. It does come with a lot of things out of the box. And then we have 2 different starter kits if you wanna bundle in stuff like, you know, out of the box authentication and teams and, 2 factor auth. Like, all of this comes with like, we have a a package system called composer. And so that's 1 composer install away.

Absolutely. And, I mean, then also, like, Laravel Spark is a thing where you get basically all the back end focused, feature sets of, like, oh, yes. You can billing setup with thousands of, like, payment providers and subscriptions and everything that just works out of the box. You can use it and, as you said, focus on the important parts.

Totally. We we have a lot of first party packages that are not built into Laravel itself but are maintained by Laravel and the Laravel team. And most of them, the vast majority of them are free. You can just install them and it's good to go. And we have a couple paid offerings such as Spark, and Nova is our admin package. So you can have a a fully featured admin just plugged right into your models that just works, out of the box, which is pretty cool.

Absolutely. And maybe before we come to Inertia, there is there was one, let's say, larger announcement, recently that we also wanted to touch on a little bit. Laravel Cloud have been coming. So maybe you can tell a bit about what Laravel Cloud is, why it it comes now, and of course the maybe a bit of the funding aspect.

Sure. Sure. Probably not gonna talk about the funding so much because I don't have a lot of info on that just as an aside. Yeah. So Laravel Cloud is the sort of natural progression of where Laravel has been going.

I can imagine. So you say, like, the the first cell for Laravel, if you like, just summarize it in one sentence, so to say.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a it's a platform as a service. Yep.

Yeah. And Yep. That will it also come with, let's say, performance improvements? So, like, it's set in you know, okay. It's a Laravel application. You can you can really focus on on all that it needs.

Yeah. It's these the the environments and the infrastructure is tuned for the Laravel application. So, it's ready to serve up and it's ready to scale, at whatever traffic is is is coming your way. So, yes, it's it's all very specific to Laravel, which is which is great.

Amazing. Yeah. I'm really looking forward how that goes, especially that's also the the first time there was funding Laravel because, of course, you can't build, like, a platform as a service. Just like I mean, you can start slowly in bootstrapping, but then there's also competition. So if you really wanna do it with a big bang, there is, funding involved.

Yeah. I mean, building a a product as complex as cloud obviously requires scaling up the team. And I think they went from, like, 8 to I think we have 34 people now, you know, in a in a short amount of time. But it's you know, we're hiring additional engineers, infrastructure support. There's a lot of components and then as well as business people to help us run the business.

Absolutely. Yeah. Sounds exciting. And it's, it's also exciting to be at a company that is growing and and doing things like that as opposed to just, like, slowly just chugging away doing the same thing or declining or, you know Totally. Even, like, amidst this, you know, climate of layoffs and stuff. It's like, yeah, it's, it's great to see that there are companies doing really well in that way.

Yeah. I, the, it was always surprising to people, the output of the Laravel team, even when it was 8 to 10 people, because it was just constant. I mean, there was, there were new releases all the time. There were new packages being put out. It was, it was just an a constant flow of productivity.

No. I I I really think, that, like, also the I mean, full remote makes totally sense in terms of, like, hiring top talents and, just, like, seeing and being as I said, being inspired by the flow of other people. I mean, me being on the Nuxt team, I also see that when, like, have team meetings and show, like, oh, look. That's the amazing part. Oh, here, we did that. And you're always like, oh my god. Like, that's that's just so insane what's going on. Exactly. Yeah. That's that's the feeling.

Totally. Totally.

Before you had mentioned this term, TUI, can you I've never heard that before. I I have a guess as to what it means because I I see it in the the notes here. But can you explain what that is and why people know you for

that? Yeah. So TUI is a text based user interface. So you're making entire, user interfaces solely out of, like, characters out of text, and it's, primarily done in the terminal. And so the reason why people know me for that is because there there's this first class Laravel package called prompts that, the genius Jess Archer built.

Perfect.

Yeah. Like, as we briefly discussed before before we hit the record button that, like, your your TUI story slowly, it it hit the peak, you said. Like, that's that's I mean, video in the terminal, it's as crazy as it gets probably, and as fun as it gets as well. So Yeah.

It was fun. It was a good time.

And and then you're you're slowly moving into probably other topics, at least in terms of talks and and the focus as well. And could one of them be inertia in the future?

Yeah. I've submitted a couple of inertia talks at a couple different places, so I'm hoping that we I get to talk about that, on a stage sometime soon. Well, we'll see.

Very nice. Yeah. And then let's let's start straight away with that because we we've heard Interim now, in in terms of the starter kits of Laravel. We heard it, together with, for example, LiveWire. So Mhmm. Maybe let's start with what inertia itself actually is for everybody who never heard that term.

Sure. Inertia is actually a deceivingly simple package that was created by Jonathan Reinink, who's the co author of, Tailwind. He originally created it. And all inertia is is a thin layer between your Laravel app and your client side code. So if what you want on the client side is JavaScript, if you want Vue, if you want React, if you want Svelte, Inertia is a good little piece of glue.

So my understanding of this is that and and I have never used inertia before, but, so like with a typical, like, Laravel or, Ruby or Rails or something like that, every click will make a full page reload because you're going back to the server. You're going to render some new HTML that gets sent back to the client and then there you go. But with inertia, you're sort of like intercepting that in a way so that instead of returning HTML, it's returning this JSON thing, which inertia then takes instead of doing a full page refresh, it can just take that JSON bit and then pass that off to Vue, which then does the update. Is that is that correct understanding?

That's totally right. Yeah. So like you said, traditionally, you would return some sort of server side template, which would cause a full, page reload and you're spinning up the app all over again with every request. With inertia, there are these link components. And if you use the link component, that instead fires off an XHR request back to the server, which then returns an inertia response, which is a JSON response with a specific, object return, which indicates back to the client, this is the component we need.

So it's basically replacing your manual work of defining the API endpoints that one should return and just does it for you, so to say, so that every time you do, like, an SPA like navigation, it will fetch the right things from a level application. And Correct. Okay. Good. And when you write the the routes, then you don't have to do that much extra, let's say.

Yeah. It's really it's it's a weird concept for people that haven't, like you you have to, like, see it to understand it almost because you're, like, well, how does that well, I don't understand how that works. But it is it it is just sort of, like, a wonderful little magic. If you want to write a more traditional feeling server side app but have all the goodness that that a Vue has to offer, it's a really great way of straddling both of those worlds.

And that that also means that you can use all the power of Laravel that we mentioned all all earlier, and just write all the, let's say, interactive bits, or maybe the main part of your front end in Vue, and it will just be glued together.

Yeah. I think that's the main selling point in my eyes is that you get all of the goodness that comes bundled into Laravel, but then you get to write, you know, a proper front end in Vue the way that you probably want to write it. I love writing Vue. So Yeah. It's really it's really best of both worlds and your your back end has never been stronger than just, like, plugging Laravel into that equation.

And especially if you can generate it with bit of codegen scripts, that's, that's that's a plus for sure. I wonder how that works with off. So if you have, like, your whole front end setup and you have, like, login button, then how like, are there specific, let's say, Inertia components set up for that? Or is it also does it magically work through that link component that you usually have?

So, there's a form helper in Inertia, and that has little, methods off of it, such as, like, post, get, put, patch, whatever you would expect off of a form. And that operates in the same exact way as the link component. So you would attach that to the form. It automatically, you know, binds the models to it and then sends that over to, Laravel correctly in the same way that the that the link component navigates as well. Does that make sense?

I would say so. Yes. It's more like, let's say, refreshing the auth state and everything. Is that everything will be handled automatically as well? Or is this Yeah.

In the same it's it's exactly so if you let's say that you auth somebody and you wanna redirect their dashboard, you can return a redirect and inertia understands, oh, I'm redirecting, and it will redirect you correctly within the client side of the app.

That's pretty cool. So really like everything that Laravel can do by default is modeled through inertia to make the front end understand it and handle that correctly.

Yep. It's really it's it's so straightforward. It's a little eerie.

It it sounds a bit too good to be true, but it is there. Right?

It's it's pretty great. It's my preferred way to write apps. And my stack is, you know, Laravel, Tailwind and Vue, connected with inertia. So it's the, the Vilt stack, I think is what it's called. I don't even know what it, you know, something like that.

That's the best kind of tool where it's like the simplicity, not not even just in how it's used where it sort of just like just works and it feels like magic, but also when you when you realize that there's so little code that actually makes it work and it's just like it just feels so nice as opposed to, like, you know, some things are like, okay. We got this to work, but you look at the code and you're, like, okay.

Never touch it.

Yeah. That's some, real hacky stuff going on in there, but, you know, great.

Yeah. Yeah. And prior prior to version 2, the app operated sort of along the same way that a browser would operate. So if you let's say you clicked on a link, the request was still going out, and you clicked on another link, it would cancel that request and and just revert to the newer so in the same way that the browser would do that, it was modeled after that. In v 2, we rewrote the router, in a pretty significant way to handle async requests so that you could have things like polling and deferred.

And Skeleton loaders and stuff.

Yeah, skeleton loaders. And then inertia will automatically ask for the props that would hydrate those and pull those in. So it really it's funny. We when we started talking about 2.0, the first thing was like, well, we should have some concept of async. We don't have that right now in here.

Sweet. So, like, that means v 2 added, that the new concept of having async things around, like, you said, deferred props, for example. What else came new into into Inertia version 2 for all people maybe tried Inertia version 1 back in time? So, like, what's what's the news there?

So we also have, prefetching. So if you hover over a link or if you can also prefetch on mount, you can prefetch pages in the background and then get instant clicks into them once once you navigate around. So you can decide on a case by case basis what you want prefetched in. On top of that, because of this whole async thing that we added, we also have stale while we validate, caching so that you can say, okay. Well, I have a I have a version of this page, but it's a little stale.

Perfect.

So this is a weird thing. So let's say you're clicking around an app that is client side rendered, and you log out, and you press the back button.

Mhmm.

You don't wanna see things that you shouldn't see. Right? This is sort of a common problem. And this was a complaint in Inertia 1 a lot. So it's like, oh, I've logged out. I press back. I can still see everything that I saw. So now we have this concept of clear history. Right? So we store pieces of data.

You encrypted also based on the city JWT token, of the user then that, like, only the user can actually decrypt it again? Or is it, like, based on what is it encrypted?

So we're using the, window dot cryptosuttle. What whatever that I I can't remember off the top of my head. It's the crypto built into the browser that we're using. And what we do is we store the key for that in the Windows session storage. So whatever the rules of the Windows session storage are, so once that gets cleared, if they close out the browser, that history is now gone.

No. I think that that totally makes sense, especially because you are in some degree with, like, cookies and everything and, like, say, the more server side paradigm. It's also yeah. Totally makes sense to attach to your session storage. That's, that's good. Yeah.

Sounds like a good way to, to solve that problem. And I've definitely experienced that before in, things that I've built where, yeah, you log out and you go back and you're like, wait, I'm logged out. Shouldn't I not be able to see this? How do I fix this? And then it's usually like like something with the auth library or something you can't really do in user land in the same way.

Yeah. We we clicked through a lot of popular apps to see how other people were handling this, and it's typically not really handled, to be honest. Like, it happens very regularly. I think it was GitHub. If you click through, they're they're, like, storing all this stuff in memory.

Well, that's that's the chance for everybody listening and there's a security expert to dive into it.

No. No. No.

Security at Laravel? No. But but, guys, if you do, then always do responsible disclosure. Very important to mention that. So so that's good.

There's not a ton of breaking changes actually. We really tried to make the migration path very smooth. I think one of the bigger breaking changes is we're dropping v 2 finally, so we're not supporting v 2 anymore. And I think that's reasonable. It's been end of life for I think you would know better than I would. I think 10 months. 10 months?

Yeah. Like, I mean, Vue's 3 has been out for for quite a while, but, like, AOL was end of last year and yeah. I think it's it's a good point to say, hey. If you want to, you can use Inertia 1 with it. So,

people It's still included Inertia 1. Yep. Yep. So we decided to to slim it down and have Inertia 2.

That makes sense. Also, like, giving a slight nudge to for people to, hey. You can upgrade.

Yeah. Yeah.

And but you still support the options API in Vue 3, I guess, with inertia? So that that doesn't matter which API you write, I guess?

Yeah. Both are supported, so it doesn't matter. You can you can easily write out the options or the composition, and it'll it'll work either way. Yep.

Sweet. But on that note, what do you prefer? Which of the 2 APIs? Personal question.

I feel like this is the this I like the composition API personally. I'm I'm a big fan. It I will say that in the beginning, I had to, like, force myself to do it a lot in order to, like, understand it and, like, rock it in a way that that made sense to me and it made it feel better. But once it one day it just clicked and I was like, oh, this is the way. I don't see any other way. This is so much better.

Yeah. That sounds pretty, pretty typical of like getting over that initial hurdle. But then once you do, you're like, yeah, This how how can I ever go back?

Yeah. I agree.

If it Clicks it clicks.

Are are you not on the, are you not on the composition API side of the equation?

No. I I'm I totally am. I'm a big proponent of the composition API. And, like, there there are, like, tons of discussions that I I, like I I I I think both Michael and I, we created tons of content around that, like options API versus composition API. We had Avenue on the podcast talking about that.

Yeah. I just think it it feels a little less magic and a little more like you're just writing JavaScript and it's working as intended. And I think that's, that's what finally made it click was that the magic layer is a little bit removed and you can just see like, oh, it's defined up here and I'm doing this and now it's showing up in my template. And it's, it's just a lot more like a to b and a lot less like a to b to c to d, you know. Yes. True.

And with the script setup syntax, which is also the only way anyone should write a composition API, it's my own hot take.

Thank you.

Like actually, it's it's not even a it's not even a hot take, Evan You as well, so that's so, like, they made a mistake, quote, unquote, that's, like, what hurt Vue three the most was really releasing the composition API without script setup because just with the setup function, sure, for migration, okay, exception made, fine. But, like, without that, that macro is just so lengthy. It's so difficult to read. And without it, it's clean. It's wonderful. It's what we expect from you.

It's also the it's the recommended path. Right? It's what they yeah. Okay. Yeah. 100%.

And what was it like it wasn't a long time before they did release it. Like the it was like maybe 6 months or something. Yeah. It was like just remembering, but

1 1, 2 minor versions. It didn't take long. That's correct.

Yeah. But like by then, everyone was like, had already formed opinions on the composition API, and written articles about

Yes.

About it, and a bit of drama and stuff. And then yeah. It would have been who knows what would have happened if it was, if that was sidestepped. That's true.

But on the other hand, I mean, that's also part of it in a way. It's like, okay. You you experiment. The new API is the way to go. And if there is a way to make it even more elegant and more clean with the help of the compiler, I'm all for it, and it's nice that we have that that standard now.

Yeah. The the Laravel is your routing layer. Like, you you route in Laravel. You don't do any routes in at on the client side at all. Inertia handles the negotiation between the 2 the 2 things for you.

the the formalization part is also a good one because I was I was thinking about translations, for example, that you also, like, have them in Laravel and the if if Inertia has a way to also fetch them from from the server side. And same with validation of, like, okay. Can I just say, hey? That's my form. That's roughly what I expect. Math like, mix and match, so to say. And you also answered that one already. But yeah. With regards to translation, it would be interesting too if that's possible.

You know, that's a good question. I haven't done a lot of localization with inertia apps, but I know people who have. And I know, you know, that's something probably you'd have to lean on, like, a community package for. I don't think we don't really have, like, a first party answer to that yet. Mhmm.

That is totally fine. But, I mean, as you said, there are so many community packages out there. Probably, there is at least one that's, covering that, which is also amazing to see in the in the Laravel ecosystem. I feel like in Vue, it's pretty similar. Like, we have so many things now around, so it's it's also great to see that.

Totally. Totally.

And maybe there there's one more, at least for me, elephant in the room, which is Is that a PHP joke? Are you making a PHP joke right now? Nice. Yeah. Well caught. Well caught. It's not PHP. It's another few letter acronyms. It's SSR. So Oh, yes. As as as someone being on the Nuxt team, I was wondering, can you do server side rendering with inertia as well to render your whole application on the server side through well, I'm curious how that will work, if that's possible.

Yes. So we do we do have an SSR story. And so, how that works is that, inertia runs a a command in the background that spins up a node process and feeds it through that. So if you're, say, setting up, you know, inertia on Forge, Forge has, like, a little I believe they have a checkbox that just says like inertia SSR. Like, it'll detect if you're inertia and you have SSR enabled and you can just, add the daemon daemon daemon? I'm now realizing

Daemon, but I'm not sure. Yeah.

Add the daemon, actually. It'll add the daemon so that it'll run that node process continually in the background for SSR requests. So that is sorted. We do have that. I'm sure it's not as clean as, like, if you were writing JavaScript on both sides, it's probably a cleaner a cleaner story there, but we do we do support that. Yes.

Interesting. So but that means you don't spin up a new process every time. It's just like have a continuous daemon running and then just like, oh, there's a new SR request.

Yeah. And it feeds it in. It knows, where to point that request to in order to get the SSR back.

And is it also scaled for, like, I don't know, supervision whatsoever to, like, if if there are, let's say, 100 requests a second, if you're super popular because, I don't know, tata auto tweeted it.

To scale up the daemons, you mean?

Yeah. Like, just because I know Node. Js is not the best when it comes to string concatenation, which is SSR mainly about.

So Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can you can do a supervisor config to to scale that up and down as necessary for sure. Yep. Wonderful.

But it that's not done automatically, I guess. Do you have to, like, do a little bit of DevOps work there?

In the Forge dashboard, you can specify, the you can just kind of plug in numbers, if you, if you don't want to dive into the config file specifically and it'll, it'll, scale that as necessary via the the daemon config.

Yeah. Makes sense. Very interesting. But then good to know that this works. And you said there are also community like, there are also other frameworks support like React or Svelte. Do they also have SSR support just to

Yes. Okay.

And same for the community adapters for, let's say, Phoenix, like the Elixir or Web Framework or or Rails?

That's a good question. I I don't work on those adapters, but I assume that they probably do. I would be surprised if they don't have those. Okay. Our ours is just wrapped up in a little I think it's PHP artisan inertiacolon SSR or something like that.

Really interesting. Yeah. But then that's great to hear because around, like, SSR is always a a big topic, especially with public facing sites. So good to hear that this works too even though it's like I remember there was like a PHP v eight project wants to run the v eight engine in PHP and all that and, of course Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's a thing anymore. But People

people get wacky, but, yeah, it's it's Yeah. It's like

when when I try to use, like, when I wanted to use Laravel and Vue and SSR together, that was like the way it's like, hey, maybe one day this could work, but, yeah, spinning up Node.js processes, I think the better way to go there.

Yeah. Yeah. Let let Node would Node do what Node is supposed to do, you know? Yeah. Well, one day, maybe even have something faster than Node for for server-side rendering. I mean, we have a bun and stuff or like, Deno, but yeah. One one day.

I was thinking maybe the last topic, the whole data fetching part. You so you said, like Mhmm. Okay. If you navigate around, it's not a problem. Inertia will do everything.

Yeah. So it depends. That's where a little bit of decision making has to come in. So if if what you want is to affect the current inertia page or component, then you should do that the official you can you can do programmatic fetching. You can say, you know, router.getorrouter.post to programmatically fetch, and then it will treat it as an inertia response and update the component.

So it's the components responsibility then as well. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. We we provide everything that you would need to to fetch inertia responses and update the components properly in, like, a thin little, you know, router methods. But everything else, yeah, you would you would you would do that on your own.

I would venture to say that perhaps, like, optimistic updates are maybe not where inertia shines because you don't you're not sharing a language between the two sides, and I think that gets a little sticky. And I would love to have a better story there and understand that better and try to try to bridge that gap a little better. But it's I think it's easier when your server and your your, front end are are speaking the same language to share that code and share the logic accordingly. Yeah. I think that's to me, that's top of mind in terms of something that I wish we had a better answer for at the moment.

When you're writing an inertia app or I guess a a Vue, Laravel, inertia app, the Vilt stack, how much of your time do you actually spend thinking about inertia stuff? Because it sounds like for the most part, you're just like back and forth between the Laravel side and the Vue side, and inertia is sort of like yeah. You have to think about it when you're putting in the link component and, you know, dealing with form stuff and, like, you know, a few edge cases and stuff like that. But, like, how how much of that time is spent on inertia, or does it just sort of, like, fade away a little bit?

In my opinion, inertia is an implementation detail. It's not really something top of mind when you are actually building out the app because when you're in view, you're in view and you just do that. I think you're pulling certain things in from inertia if you choose to. You're pulling in a form helper, you're pulling in the router if you need to, but you don't really think about it that much. You're not you're not saying like, how does inertia do this?

That sounds, pretty nice that it can do all that and just be like yeah. Like, it almost sounds too good to be true. I'll have to check it out sometime and and play around with that.

Yeah. Especially if you're you said you can't I think you said you come from a rails background or you've or you've done a little bit of rails in the past?

Yeah. Rails with with Vue on the front end, but, like, rendered into the, the Vue there.

Right. I would love to hear what you think about the the experience, because I think I think you're gonna be a little blown away. Because if that's the experience that you previously had, I think you're gonna feel a lot better about this, this mechanism of of rendering our apps.

Well, it sounds like it. So if I yeah.

the part in the back

of my mind that's like, okay, I gotta try something, you know. So if I have if I have time I mean, this is the problem with this podcast is we have every week we talk with awesome people about different things, and they're like, hey, check out this cool thing. And I'm like, oh, I should do, I should do something with that. And then the next week is, oh, I should maybe build my own like rich text editor editor with like all these features. Oh, that'd be cool.

The the list is a 100 items long at this point and it just now this is a 101st on the list. Yeah.

Yeah. And it might go up a few places though. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

I think it might be useful. I I saw somebody tweet about this the other day where they have an app and it's where they just try out new tech or they rebuild with new tech. So like they have an established app, like something a little more complex than say a to do list, you know, app. And, oh, I should try out this tech. Let me just re I know what the use case is here.

That's a great idea because then and like, especially, like, if you're going from Nuxt to Laravel, then you probably have to rewrite the majority of it. But then

Yeah.

If you're trying out just like, oh, I've got Laravel now, let me try it with Inertia. Let me try it with LiveWire and see how that feels. Then it's like, like a lot of it can stay the same and you can just like swap out different things and, and Totally. That that would be neat.

Yeah. Food for thought.

I'll add to my

list. Perfect. 102.

Jonathan's intention is to keep inertia scope pretty tight. It does a one job and it does it really well. And I am very on board with that vision. I think that's very smart. I think it's easy to get, you know, let these things blow out of control and sort of become a different beast than the original intent was.

Perfect. I I think that's a a pretty amazing, end statement for for the episode. Like, we we we can't we we don't even have to say anything else there. That's that's lovely, except there's one more question, of course. So, Joe, where can people follow you? Anything you wanna plug? Anything you wanna mention?

I it's just no plugs, but you can follow me on Twitter, at Joe Tannenbaum. And everywhere else, I'm at Joe Tannenbaum. So if you wanna follow me anywhere else, that's also good to go. And, I really appreciate you guys having me on. Thank you so much.

Of course. You're welcome. Thanks, thanks for joining. All the talks you mentioned, all the links, everything will be in the show notes in the description, all your handles as well. Mhmm. So so thanks thanks a lot for coming on, telling us a bit more about Laravel Inertia, and, everything around it. And, I hope to talk to you very soon, maybe for Inertia, v 3 5, 10 years. Who knows? It might take a little while for that. In a decade, I'll be back on.

I'm happy to be happy to go back on.

Exactly. Or other topics

early. We'll see.

Maybe Thank

you so much.

Maybe you can come up to VueConf Toronto in November of the year.

Yeah. When's that happening?

November 18th to 20th?

Yeah. We'll be both there. Okay.

Yeah. We're both there.

Yeah. We'll actually There. That'd be fun. Be sick. Yeah.

And, to our listeners, if you want a discount of 15% DEJAVUE. It's a code. It'll get you that.

Also link for that code in the description. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. It's not too

far away for you. It's a No.

It's it's totally easy. That's easy.

Flight or a medium length drive?

Yeah. Like, you drive, but, you know, doable. Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. That that would be that would be really sick. So and, of course, if anyone listening will come there too, we're looking forward to talk to you, have a little chat, discuss about option versus composition API and which amazing back end framework you use. So we'll definitely psych for that. Of course, don't forget to watch if that's the latest episode than the older ones.