What up, What up? What up? Good morning, Good morning. GMG Third Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday, May 4th June 4th June 4th June 4th, 2025. Look at that. Another beautiful day and I have a beautiful day. I go back coast in the house. Tyler, Tyler, Tyler, Tyler. Good morning. Hey, don't they? I'm good. We thought maybe summertime might be slowing down a little bit in the in the crypto streets. Pump Fun says no. No.
We're going to be busy, it's going to be a busy couple weeks, so it's good a lot to talk about. Pump fun Trump versus magic Eden, OH. Yes, I already forgot about that. Like the news cycles move so fast. Magic Eden knows Allen a couple beers for for taking some of the spotlight off of what looks to have been. Hey, we have a lot to talk about. You're wearing the far coin hat. I mean, that was what I did. Yeah. God damn. So there's that. Like the memes. There's a lot to talk about today.
So anyways, sit on the show. We'll talk about all that Pump fun. Did what? That's the topic of the show. So we'll talk about Pump Fun and what's going on. Curious about some takes here. And then I we're going to talk about we'll talk about Tyler's top 100, which there's a lot of topics. We'll then also be joined by Jason Atkins from Oros, very good friend of mine and one of our partners.
So we'll can't wait to talk to him about all things, you know, market making in the markets, etcetera. Actually, some of us extremely great insight and this finger on the pulse in the market, probably one of the people I know that has the closest finger on the pulse to the market in crypto. So really curious to see Jason and what he thinks overall. Then today we're bringing back the eat giveaway. You know, guys, we weren't going to do a eat giveaway yesterday with you a little bit.
OK, so so cut me some slack here, but I had to we had to make the call with sins before the show, but so we'll do 3 on Friday, but that means do 1 today, one Thursday and three on Fartcoin Friday with Spencer, who will be joining us. Spencer Ventures or cap gains to talk about moon bears on Friday. So that'll be exciting. And then last but not least, this show is powered by wild Connect.
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Can yeah, looking at markets here, a little bit weak today. Bitcoin down percent one O 4/4. Ethereum was outperforming. It still is slightly down .6 percent. 2600 sold down 3%, lagging a bit at 1:55. We had unit swap and Abe top alt movers on the morning. As we look across some of the other lines, the Ethereum ETFs are on fire. Another $100 million in infos yesterday, 12 straight green sessions. So the ETF buyers are piling
under. We had Trump Media file for a spot Bitcoin ETF with the SEC aiming to launch the Truth Social Bitcoin ETF that is in partnership with crypto.com in Yorkville America Digital. Other trump news controversial on the day so magic Eden announced that it had collaborated with the trump meme coin team to launch a trump branded crypto wallet and trading act powered by
slingshot. Though the Trump family, the sons Donald, junior, Eric quickly came out and denied any connection to the product and warn them to be very careful. So that is still developing. We had consensus CEO Joe Lubin on FOMO hour yesterday and he dropped some alpha, perhaps some news that a major sovereign wealth fund from a very big country is considering building on Ethereum. So that's going to be a huge headline to watch.
We had SEC Chair Paul Atkins say that it's a new day for the SEC and that he's prioritizing a rational. Always good to hear. That what are you saying? Sorry, it cuts for two seconds. SEC Chair Paul Atkins calling it a new day for the SEC prioritizing A rational regulatory framework. So always good to hear that in corporate treasury news, these headlines keep coming. NASDAQ listed Ed tech firm class over is going to form a Solana Treasury. They already purchased $1
million worth. We had Solar Bank, an energy company announced a Bitcoin treasury and then breaking before the show, this Chinese firm we bus, we bus raising $300 million for an XRP treasury. So sole Bitcoin and XRP. Now if we get down to token air dropping protocol news pump font, arguably the biggest story of the day, reportedly plans to raise $1 billion in a token sale at a $4 billion valuation. No word on a potential air drop. So that was somewhat
controversial as well. Rec drinks sold out 180,000 drink fastest sell out to date. You love to see that. And also just a quick notice for those who who didn't meant you have until June 6th to burn those for those rewards and cases. So the clock is ticking. Kaido that is live on Instagram and TikTok. It's socials at least and then teased at their algo should be coming there in the near future as well. They also started an injective campaign.
Remember this out AI pretty much chopped on the day the leaders were were red. Meme coin leaders are red as well across chains. So Solana memes took a hit in the wake of the pump fun token news. But it wasn't just Solana, the ETH memes were down as well. So this is a broader meme coin sell off. We saw clad A notable mover in the Believe app Eco up another 60%, 24,000,000 and NFTS. Let's see, Clanosaurus was the big headline of the day. They ended up minting 97,000 of
these Popkins packs. They raised $19 million. Well, they sold in total $19 million there. There is a refund component of this. Effectively, if you got a pack that does not have this Popkins in it, you get your money back. So that that led to the the the high number, but still a huge sale. So how many Popkins are in there? 25,000, I believe, OK. Got it. So it seems like 3/4 of this is going to get refunded. So closer to 5 million, but still pretty massive demand. Got it. OK.
Love, love to see that. There's a lot to talk about, that's for sure is quickly. Mando, good morning. Good morning, good morning. How you doing today? Good morning, guys. How are you? Fantastic, we're good, we're good reviving, you know, despite some some troubled markets, but we're good, you know, just we're just we're just running through it met Tyler was running through
topics of the day. But I'll go to you real quick before I go back to Tyler, because I definitely want to talk about pump font and I want to talk because that's bad news. And I would you know, I definitely want to take hear both your takes and your opinions, because Tyler, you have some stronger opinions about that one. I've been reading your texts and I've been reading your tweets, so I know you got some good opinions on the on the pump font consensus or non consensus trader.
And and and I do want to go over the magic eating and Trump shit because that's funny. That's actually funny as fuck. I shouldn't be laughing, but I thought it was funny. This is this space is hilarious. But quickly Mando, anything on the market that we need to pay attention to? Or is it just all related to pump fun and we may as well just go there? No, there's been some tariff
headlines. So we just sold off over the last hour or so because Mexico came out, came out and said they're going to retaliate to the steel and aluminium tariffs coming out from the US. So I think there's like a, an idea that we could see a bit of a rise in let's say short term tariff headlines and that's going to drag this a little bit lower the markets. Other than that, the broader macro market feels OK. We had like an OK jobs figure yesterday. Stocks, stocks have been fine.
So nothing there. I, I wouldn't just tie this to punk farm either. Like I think this is just the general chop period here. I don't think this is necessary. It's like pump fun causing this. Bitcoins barely moved right over the last few seconds. It's it's like a one O 5K basically the whole time. I think we just we just create
the narratives. As for my take on the pump fun stuff, like there was a good tweet I saw on the on the timeline maybe a few hours ago, which was like people who come who were tweeting to get 500 bucks of Laudio are complaining because pump farm wants to raise a billion dollars. Like I think part of it is just like a Oh my God that they're extracting from the, from the ecosystem. It's it's terrible. Like it's revenue, man. Like it is revenue at the same time, like they, they create a
very, very profitable business. And arguably that seems kind of Fair value, like 4-4 billion. Kaito is 2 right? So pump fun I think makes materially more than them. Yeah, 10 access exactly. Right. So like, I don't think it's even that that that expensive. So I think people are just like they just look at they look at it on a relative basis, like, Oh my God, these people have made so much money from you and now they're doing the but I don't think that that has not been a a real difference.
If the token does come, it could easily come much go. Much harder than that in my opinion. So so let's go there, right, because market wise, whatever, not unchanged, like more on the downside, but still like whatever, like bitcoins around hovering over one O 5K and it's been very choppy. Memes got absolutely decimated yesterday. I mean that far coin date was fucking crazy. You know, it's like punk fun news came out and everybody decided to sell far coin but me.
But the record show and Tyler and Mandel bought some per his tweet. And Tyler has his fart coin hat on because hot air rises. But it was interesting. So Tyler, run us through the news 1st and then let's discuss it because I there's a lot of takes on the timeline. Some I want to share, some I don't really care to share, but I'm curious to hear what you guys genuinely think here. So Tyler, take us through, run us through the what happened
last night. Yeah. So Blockworks is reporting that Pump Fun is kind of shopping around, planning this $1 billion token sale that would value their protocol at $4 billion. We don't have any official details from the Pump Fund team. A part of their announcement from Blockworks says there will be both a private and public component to the sale. We don't know the ratio there. We had folks like Cyrus tweeting again, this is rumor, but it it
was somewhat in line. He said that he was kind of DN some details about this potential token launch a few weeks ago, 1 billion raised at a 4 billion valuation. That was correct, at least from what Blockworks is reporting. He's saying 25 revenue used for buybacks, 100% unlocked day one team investors on a 12 month Cliff AirDrop to users, but wouldn't be on day one. So that's all rumor mail. Separate that from the concrete news.
The concrete news is just the token sale and the public and private investor component of this. So we don't know a whole lot. And I think based on the news that we have, it's hard to really, for me, draw a whole lot of conclusions about what this means for the trenches, for the broader mean point ecosystem because there's still so many unknowns. Is there going to be an AirDrop or not? Are they going to actually use buybacks to drive up the Toker price?
I think those two components have huge swings and potential outcomes for this one. I have a lot of thoughts. There's a lot of directions we can go. I think First off it's hard to get too caught up in what the majority of of CT says but man we have the most viral apps created in crypto this entire cycle on the most successful and the the majority is complaining about them doing a token launch which is. Just everyone is just hilariously broke for, for Bitcoin at this level that
that's generally my take away. I feel like that is what is the, the annoyance about this. It's like we're still stuck in the trenches, like trying to play these games. And now they're even extracting another billion. I think that's basically what this is. And like Bitcoin is $105,000. I'm going to say that how, how long have we been doing that? This fucking show? To Bitcoin. At $105,000 we. But nobody owns Bitcoin though, right?
Like that, That that argument is right, Mando, but no one has Bitcoin, Mando. Like I get maybe you should own Bitcoin. No, I get that. I get you're right, you're right, like your argument is right. I'm just saying our listeners. No, but like maybe we should my. Closure to Bitcoin are are Bitcoin puppets and and maybe. We should be focusing on the idea that people should be owning a bit more of that stuff. You know what I mean? POPO to the fans, the to the
credits. Sorry, PO is like hardcore. It's just memes, right? If you're playing the meme meme coins. I, I made this point on, on, on B check show the other day, which is if you, if you look, because obviously I run a casino, right? Or we, yes, you look at RTP of the games you can look at and, and we have a 1% house edge on, on a vast majority of Summer Games and some black slip games. It's like 99 1/2%. That means out of 100 spins, we will win 49 1/2 and you will win
50 1/2. Sorry, we will win 50 1/2. You will win 49 1/2. Pump fun as a casino, I think has much worse RTP than that for the vast majority of people. They've made a billion. The trading box have made a billion I don't know how much radium and meteor have made, but I would guess it's it's in the realm of 500 million to a billion and then you you got to think insiders have got the vast majority of of that. So I don't know how much are all pump fun coins worth together. Can we work that out?
Pump fun four and. 1/2 billion 4. 1/2 billion 5. Billion pump fun market coin market cap pump fun coins market cap. How do you know that? Coin Gecko. Coin Gecko has it, so 3.7 billion, OK. And I just said roughly 3 billion of that is already gone in fees, OK. And now you've got to think that only one of those is really listed on centralized exchanges, which is far coin right, only really one and I think peanut is too. And and other than that it's like 1 to 2% liquidity pool.
So with 3.7 billion, you've probably got about 100 to 200 million of liquidity to actually get out right Max. These are not easy games to win is basically what I'm trying to pitch for people right? Like so if you are sitting there annoyed at suddenly pump fun doing a token like you've just missed the point of pump fun. It is a casino. It is a casino and the and the and the RTPS are are wildly bad.
If you look at the number of wallets which make money consistently trading pump fun is like 1 percent 2% I think I think in the last month only there was something like only 5 bullets have made more than 10 Ki. Just like what I'm saying about this is that you have to be very honest with the odds. And I think people get misconstrued with the odds here, like the odds are massively
stacked against your favorite. If you're, if you're, if you're playing these games, you can get the 100 X, you can get the 10,000 X, but actually you're, you're kind of betting at a, at a casino. And if you have your whole portfolio in that, then it's a, it's a real worry. I I yeah, I agree. I don't think a lot of people have their whole portfolio and the Pom Funk casino, I would
think they have it in memes. Do you consider having a portfolio in like the larger memes having your portfolio in the casino? Honest question. I'm talking about like doge Pepe mog, not not even mog, sorry. I think. I think coins above a billion.
Sorry. More established memes you can maybe like there's been value creation, but pump fun itself as an ecosystem and and maybe Solana mean coins, maybe as a broader extension, but particularly pump fun that I just went through the numbers there, right, Like about 3.7 billion of value created about maybe 2 1/2 three billion of value already lost to fees. And then you got to assume which of those wallets have actually made the money and can you
monetize it? Like Pepe has unbelievable liquidity, like unbelievable even does actually very, very liquid liquidity and it's listed on every centralized exchange as does Doge. I think you've got to just consider the the casino that you've been playing at here a little bit. And and if you, if you, if you have been seeing it as that and like, yeah, we can make money and it's 1000 X and it's a Ponzi that we all get into earlier
than fine. But like if you're now sitting claiming that punk funds bring out a coin, like they just have created the best RTP situation for themselves. And and yeah, like, people are going to continue to play at that casino then, then cool. Yeah, fair. That's very fair. 10,000 X drag Where else are you going to get? I mean that was the whole story of the cycle right?
Like I see obese made a post, but Stolongo Tyler was like, yo, like the same people saying, Oh, everybody's complaining you don't have enough big corners. The same people that were pushing the daily runner and the the hyper rotation this cycle narrative, Like if you don't hyper rotate, you're going to
miss out. And now we're asking people we not us, but like we the people are asking others like, yo, why don't you know this one is because you guys were promoting the hyper rotation of tokens all cycle long. And actually K money does defense. It's his credit. Sorry, no defense.
He was the one thing that would believe in something because you know, these guys, these markers are like really crazy, like the the the the rebranding of shit coins to daily runner is going to hyper speed this industry to zero. And looks like he was right. Tyler, you have been voicing on the timeline and behind the scenes how you don't see this as bearish memes, like stole memes and stole itself because consensus has that. So what, what do you think of
that? Because that was the first take of most people. I tend to agree with you actually because I like to maybe take non consensus trades. So what what do you what does that mean? Like what's your take here? Like what do you think? And my, my first gut reaction, it was kind of in line with everyone's like, this is going to be a big liquidity suck
because it's a top sign. Like we all have PTSD from the other side meant NFTS 2022, which was not obvious in the moment, but was more of an obvious top sign in hindsight. And then these Rams pull out and, and like 75% of respondents said this is bearish for, for soul and soul meme eco. So I saw at that time like how broadly consensus it was, which made me kind of second guess my initial reaction.
So I think I think there's still there's still some open details that we need to be confirmed on all this. But I think there's a lot, I mean, you know, if there's going to be an air drop or not, I think that's going to be a a huge factor in this. I think there's also a component of who where is the liquidity coming from, from the pump token sale? Like is it actually the trench
warriors or is it institutions? Is it is it whales with deeper wallets, money that would not have entered the trenches anyway? And my gut is likely that cohort who was going to drive a majority of the pump fund token by pressure. And if that's the case, you can make an argument that it's more bullish. For the eco, especially if it comes if you get positive price action and an air drop, then that becomes a much more bullish setup for the Solana meme ecosystem.
So I think that's one component. The second I, I think there's a lot of people who are saying memes are done. The meme cycle is over. It's topped already. I don't, I don't know if I can get there. I feel like it's like saying that sports gambling is over. Like I think people want to do this now. It doesn't mean that the IT doesn't mean that we're going to continue in the same way that we've been doing. Like maybe we won't have the the meme runner of the day in this
hyper rotation. Maybe it'll be more of a rotation back to some of the the more stronger community tokens. I'm not sure exactly how it's going to move forward. I don't think we're going to see a total utter collapse of the meme coin ecosystem overall as a result of this. But I'm still working through my thoughts. And I do think if, if, if pump pump comes out and confirms the details and say there is no AirDrop, we're just going to do this. And they're, and they're not
going to do any buybacks. I think they're going to face a lot of backlash. And there's there's certainly no shortage of competitors right now. And if they face a lot of backlash, maybe pump fun has topped. So, so we'll see. But which is why I don't think they'll do that. I think they will reward the users in some capacity. They see the success hype is having with the buybacks. And of course, they they don't necessarily have to do that, but to me, I could you, you can run the scenarios.
I feel like the upside that you would create with the token has to end this broader positive community sentiment would have to outweigh, you know, you giving up that portion of income. So that's where I'm at. They'll do buy backs. They'll do buy backs. I've heard rumors that they have taken that they've taken off, taken out so much money that they have been like debanked.
Yeah, those are not rumors. This is true because I've heard the same thing and I know someone happened they have made. So much money that they've missed you. Back well, it's normal right? They live in the UK right? And they the UK, they're maybe fuck with people making money. So maybe token is the best way to do this. Just plant a token, then token. They sell the token and that's a better way of. Yeah. Of monetizing the money. So there's some takes on the
timeline. You got Andy saying universe where pump fund launched with 1 billion raised is actually bullish for memes. Raises mostly filled with funds. People without meme coin exposure. OK no big liquidity stock from Unchained pump fund then does an eye drop to users who get new liquidity like funded by the bid. But then you have spider who goes pump fund knows memes are dying hence the token launch.
At the end of the day it's just harder and harder for people to justify pushing 100K plus into meme coins wise. Which is why Internet capital markets is a refreshing narrative. Some of these coins can justify it if their flyways are good enough. Can't help but feel that I want to expose myself that sense to meme coins. It's kind of like opposite takes here. Personally speaking, I don't really understand the take of like this. Another trump moment. Remember when trump coin came
and everything kind of dumped? As a matter of fact, far coin went to all time high last time there was a Trump coin and the opposite happened yesterday. So we had an immediate sell off aggressive of some of the top meme coins in Solana crypto. UB was saying consensus is that Solana and Solana memes are dead here. Would be funny if I tend to
agree with that. But also sometimes I'm wary of being anti consensus because sometimes like hey, you're just the last that Japanese soldier meme, right? That's what Cyrus commented on my post yesterday. That was funny. So what do you think here for Solana's ecosystem and it's me, I mean? Bring up every Solana meme coin. It's had a really good. Round. I don't want to. Well, Spark com was in in in March. Spark COM was trading at 250. Yeah.
Trading at 400, right? Moodang was was at in in April 40 million, now 200. Like you're talking about big moves across the board in pretty much every single time. It's not been a bad period here for Solan and meme coins.
I would be a bit more wary, like I don't think this is what I would say is firstly, pump fund has got a number of different people who are invested in it, like a ton of different people invested in it. And it was kind of already known that this was they were doing this for the last month or so. There's been rumors going around that they were going to do this.
And a lot of people have been saying on the timeline, this is a big worry for Solana because if they try to do their own chain, well, this comes a little quid. You suck. So the part of what you have seen probably over the last few couple of weeks, at least in Solana meme coins has probably been this. You know, you hear this headline like people, people see the headline. They're like, Oh my God, I've got to sell salon mean coins, I've got to sell Saul.
And actually that's kind of already happened. Like it's probably been happening for the last two weeks. You just didn't really know why. So I think part of the move has probably happened. But I do think that I'm just more bullish on ether. I'm just more bullish on ether. I think Ethan's got a cleaner narrative. We had Joe Lubin on yesterday. It's not that I'm all bullish on activity.
I actually think activity will stay and maybe even fee revenue will stay with Salana. I, I, I don't think Ethan is at that spot. What I'm bullish at for Ethan is hopium and the treasury trade, which is basically what he is now talking about the idea of companies coming in and building up ETH treasuries that potentially we're going to get youth staking as well for the ETF, which allows for even more of this, of this ETH treasury trade.
And I, I think it's, you know, part of it is also just a rebound from nobody owning it. You know, like even before we went live asked does anyone know? I don't, I don't think people even own it Like they, they hate to own it. Like it's like it's like a disease to own ETH versus owning an. I have to say, after yesterday, you know Joe, Oh, fucking after the show, I'll post a full interview because I really need people to listen to it. Joe cooked. Yeah. But like, think about how you
own soul. You're like, I own soul and I quite like it. You know, you're an eating like, Oh yeah, I don't know, maybe I should have Mog or maybe I should have Pepe or Rag. Like you, just like you, you're just told not to own it. And I think that is its strength if it does pick up, because I still don't, I actually just think it's not even owned, like it's as little owned by the trenches right now as Bitcoin in my opinion.
Like people do not own it. And I think that that if it, if it builds any sort of a narrative, can be very, very strong. Yeah, this is. Yeah, Go ahead. OK. Is this pump fun token going to be a buy at at 4 billion? Are you guys, are you guys clearing up some funds to buy on the gun or to buy on presale? It's, it's really difficult because I think it's one of those classic things in D5 where you like start analyzing like, Oh my God, like the buyback's
going to be insane. And pump fund revenues down 80% in the last three months or four months. It's down a lot. And that's partly that's because of other competitors and partly because the Solana casino has, has, has slowed somewhat after Trump. I don't know what the annualized revenue is on pump fund. It's it's definitely very high, but it's probably in the low hundreds of millions rather than in the high hundreds of
1,000,000 I think. Last time a company raised at $4 billion and it was not SEO but it was Yuga Labs. So you can't compare tokens, but you can compare valuations I believe. And Yuga Labs at the time was making a fuck ton of money too in revenue. Similar to pump font in terms of like royalties etcetera. But I hate comparing because there's such bad comparisons. But the four billion, I don't know. Are you guys buying at $4 billion?
I I would not buy but hyper liquid makes it look very cheap. The thing is this is the hyper liquid member. Looks very cheap as a chain. And I'm buying 2 billion. Can look very expensive as an app, so pump fun if it's really smart here. And what people are already saying is they're actually pitching this as a chain and
it's going to be its own chain. And if that is going to be the case, then you could be like, well, this could be valued close to hyper liquid and with which there's like a really high upside. And like maybe it does build out the app ecosystem and you know, it goes down that route. But if it's just an app, then yeah, probably, probably fair values around that. I think I'm a buyer. I, I, I'm just going to push back on the 80% reduction.
I've seen people, I think the, a lot of the bears can kind of point to that. It's like maybe it's down 80% from the blow off Trump. Too weak tail, period. But it's fun. Fun is still making a fuck ton of money. I don't know what barricades people are talking about. Yeah, I'm. Making one one half million a day. It's a great business. So what's that 500 million? How much is radium making I? Think in line. In line Yeah, I. Mean you got me.
I'm just looking at the term Artemis Terminal for how much Radium's made. But like there are some clear comps here, right? If it's just going to be an app, and I think that is, that's worth considering basically. It is. Can you hear me? We can hear you now. I think radiums is not as sexy of. Course it's going to. Be a dumb thing to say. Dude pump phones make a ton of money. Like I just don't.
Get the if they announce A buyback, I think it's a, it's a double, I think even 2X at 4 billion. That definitely do the buyback. For sure, that's the most easy flywheel, top of my flywheel you can come up with like buyback. I'll be in the pre sale if they announce that and confirm it. I think they will do it regardless, Tyler, but I see what you mean. But yeah. I won't be like shoving super hard but. So let me ask you guys something.
Should I do pre sale Jamiriad? I mean, I'm looking at it like that. Are you making $500 million a year? Well. We're doing $4 billion, dude, obviously. I think everyone's looking like everyone, everyone this is, this is just pocket watching there, isn't it? It's like, Oh my God, maybe I should do that because they're doing. I think it's very difficult. I'm funny. You know what? I. Mean, I mean this is going to be
like ICO season. Like yeah, you had the the Kobe like solar sonar news, not all gold echo. That was massive, massive like making ICO is pretty much legal and now this and people want to tell me they're bearish crypto. Like you have an ICO kind of season coming here. Like a lot of people trying to compare this to like a double top thing. The pump fund Trump was first. The second one is this. Do you guys really feel that way
about this pump fund news? I I am I crazy not to think that like I don't think pump funds thing is going to destroy the market. Like why do people think that? I have to say the thing that I, and I don't know if you would agree with me, I never go on pump fun ever. I haven't been since like Q4 or something. I've never. As an app, for me, it's more
middleware, right? You're really trading on Flex Proton, one of these trading bots that like actually make it discernible for you to actually view. Even the streaming content is not that good. So like Pump Fun has made it very easy people to create tokens, but like it, I don't think people like are hanging out on Pump Fun. I don't know if I like not. As much anymore. I don't know, maybe they are. I mean, they're trying to get all these creators to make I.
Mean now. They don't have shows now, like you have the the Gainesy show, you have Eddie's show. They're bringing a bunch of originals. They're going towards content. You're right. I mean, I don't, I don't go on pump fun. I never did really. I bought a bunch of shit coins there. I'm trying to. Use your. That's what I kind of mean. Like Hyper Liquid is an app that you go on and you use, right? I think pump fun you you could argue.
It's a protocol. As as yeah as like a very democratized form of token creation. Yeah, it is. It's a protocol like the aliens, right? That's the beauty of it, though. I don't go on the Radium and Jupiter often, but I'm still interacting with the protocol. Interesting. What do you go on? If you're if you're not using radium or Jupiter, then I guess. You're using. The the photon or. The photon Nova like, you know, at least interesting something. Goes on on Jupiter quite a lot.
Yeah, I I mean, I only used your. Better and and to be heard BLA like that is the criticism of radium too, though, that it was middleware. You know, that it was that it was that it was middleware for other people. Fun, fun. To me, science ecosystem feels very interdependent. You know, it feels very much like it all works because the other things all work together. Yeah, I don't know. Anyways, that's interesting, as we'll see. I do we do have Jason in the studio.
I'm going to bring him on to this conversation because this what up, Jason, Hey. Fellas, how you doing? How you doing? I knew you were going to do that with my accent. You can't help yourself. How you doing, mate? Hey, show us. Show us the mullet. Oh. It's getting pretty bad at the back. Should I do 1? Yeah, party in the back. Should I do 1? Sorry for offending all all your all your viewers. It's my first first course of action. Australian accent in a bad
haircut. Jason, I have a question for you. Jason Atkins from Oros. I mean, he runs the shit. He's the best, He's one of the most smartest people I know in crypto. We'll get to your interview with in a few questions for you like that we've prepped up. But Jason, what do you think of this pump fun news like the market reacted in a certain way. You've, you know, interacted with Solon and the ecosystem a ton and you know it very well, more than most people actually.
What do you make of the pump fund use for the Solana ecosystem and for the broader crypto here? I mean, I was just in the waiting room listening to you guys and Amanda, you're making some pretty good points that if you're looking at, we got this temptation in crypto to like value things on revenue or earnings of of the firm as soon as we're trying to like work out comparables.
Whereas if you look at something like Hyper Liquid that's done so well, it's not just because of the revenue, it's because of the forward-looking outlook that they've explained about the change. So to your point, is pump fun just raising a billion dollars to like add, I don't know, a new feature set to the UI or add new protocols? Are they going to be middleware for to your point, no, they're not. That sort of money has left.
Like I think the the main things we're missing are we're getting distracted by like the billion dollar raise at 4 million valuation. Are they going to do a buy back when in reality the question is like what are you doing with the money? And that question is going to answer whether you should participate in the pre sale. I think the the buyback stuff like undoubtedly supply demand dynamics, sure it increases your likelihood of being OK at 4 billion versus waiting for a dip.
But ultimately, can it go from 4 billion to where's hyper liquid now like 3536 billion? The difference between that, it's almost like it's speculative on the forward-looking outlook versus just a straight revenue calculation. They earn this much per year, therefore they'll do this buy back.
That really is like a single point of failure that's pretty hard to sustain because to your point, if the revenues of pumped up funds keep coming off or don't rebound in the way that they thought, that valuation starts to become questioned because it's not what it was at the peak. There are less revenues. Can they reinvent themselves? So really, if the question I've got is like, what are you going
to do with a billion dollars? And I think before they they run the ICO, they're going to have to tell investors what the plan is. Like you don't raise that sort of money publicly or privately without like a data room and a deck and some explanation of like what you're buying into.
Because if it's just I'm buying into buybacks, you're kind of playing with like, when will the market work out that this is capped and it's capped on, is someone going to come along and do what other NFC marketplaces did the open sea, right? Like at its peak open sea you would have looked at and being like, this is the thing, revenues, everything.
And then how quick does that go? So I think if you need it to be something more for 4 billion to be sort of a good entry point, you might get a short term sort of double up as you guys pointed out. But yeah, I think hopefully we've done a really good job of, of pulling liquidity and pulling business in. But of course, 1 discernible difference between what they've done and what pump the funds doing is they've controlled every piece of the stack the
whole way. Like no, they say money, they control liquidity on their product. So like everything about control has led to like that initial setup for the token to do what it did. Now I think it's done more because of like again, before looking up prospects and and revenues increasing and usage increasing, but ultimately it's control like the tokens, very similar to like if someone that launches the token restricts supply quite a lot and controls everything and that would like
make the price go higher. It's like that doesn't necessarily mean it's worth what it's worth, but that control aspect is, is pretty valuable. And I think it's a pretty big difference between what pumped off fund has got and what hyper liquid's got. I think liquidity for the pumped off fund token is going to be essential because guys like you guys that may buy into the pre sell aren't going to hold if this thing's whipping around super quick constantly on very,
very light fumes. I mean, you know, you know, how about trends? Will hold on to pump farm coin at $4 billion, but. Actually, I mean the actual the best thesis I've heard. We had this chat internally today. This is actually kind of an interesting theory is that a lot of the firms during the meme cycle that wanted to participate in the trenches but just didn't a have the expertise or remit to do so are looking for exposure to memes And like maybe a single point of like basket trading
pump fund as the token. Because if main main cycle kicks off again and no one else comes and competes with pump dot fund, let's assume they stay as the incumbent market leader, then pump dot fund token will go up. And that's like exposure to every meme that will launch without you having to, to your point pilot sit there and and look at the UI and, and like grimace at how painful it is to even work out what's listing and and who's listing it. Why? What if pump fund? Makes sense.
Maybe that exposure helps. Pump fund, make fart corn reserve. I thought Tyler told you about that? I was like, what if they're going to buy? That you need the you need the fart coin Treasury strategy. No one's done that yet. That's exactly exactly. That's like the trendy thing to do at the moment. Reverse back on the onto something on the New York Stock Exchange, then use the assets to back buying something. Why not fart Coin?
So that's a good question and I want to get to interviewing you. But like Ayadra says, isn't that what the Solana token is for? Exposure to the meme coin casino. I would probably say you asked Solana that they would say let's we're we're a little bit more than that. But yeah, I mean, that's what drove the last cycle. It drove it last month, dropped to midpoint. Pump fun, right? Pump Fun makes more money with which is so if you're just trying to is. Pump chain really happening like L1?
What else do you do with a billion dollars in crypto? Yeah, but what also do you need a billion dollars to do a chain? They need it for the evaluation like. A billion dollars is a lot of money. You're going to try and call yourself as hyper liquid. You need to chain and I. Think to sponsor our show. I think, didn't they reach out? I remember hearing about that some. Somehow they reached out to rhetoric. Yeah, dude. We got to get them. We're about to relocate the show
on Monday somewhere. Fucking stream on Pump Fun. Yo, Alan, I, Alan, my, my kids are going to be Jewish. We got to got to work together, you know? Come on, that's a hard appeal to pass. Yeah, exactly. Why do you think I'm with Vanessa? I I'm trying to join the tribe friends. Are serious, man, no. No, no, I'm I'm marrying one. OK, I, I this is how OK Anyways, OK, before we get cancelled on here, so I don't know we'll see what happens with pump font yadda yadda yadda.
Look, we'll talk about the whole magic Eden and something. What your point Jason, what you said about the reverse back stuff that we were, we had Joe Lubin on here yesterday like obviously he's done. That, yeah, I saw. Yeah, we pushed. We pushed Jason for Joe yesterday. Yeah, I got, I got kicked off the show though, as you were saying, Amanda, no one holds 8. I have, I have some holdings left.
I've I've weathered the storm a little bit and I was happy I was replaced by Joe Lubin. Yes, I was like, sorry Jason last minute got Joe on. Do you mind coming on Wednesday? But you know what it is? It's Trump, CZ Joe and then Jason up Only you know. Yeah. Only getting to bed every time. Companies that have announced they're going to do this reverse back and that have mooned have been the Bitcoin ones, sole strategies I think.
And then now this ETH Sharp Link firm, I'm pretty sure somebody announced they did it with DOGE and their stock went down like 40% and I think I wasn't. Kidding about far Coin. No, but like somebody should do that, right? Surely they should do that with DOGE, right? Like that does feel like the sort of thing that maybe DOGE is the only asset in crypto which has actually outperformed Bitcoin. It's the only asset.
Oh, since since it's since it's like over the last, I think it's 5410 years, whatever how long it's been around. And yeah, I think those. Those have got Tesla, like Elon at some point, or SpaceX is going to announce that they're going to hold their treasury in DOGE. So maybe why didn't Jeremy dump though on the back of the Bitcoin buys? Mixed, yeah. They're done again, Mixed. Yeah, they're choppy. Choppy. OK. I think those is the next. I think you're right.
But I think it's like there's a difference between like I'm going to hold my treasury in Bitcoin and there's I'm going to run the micro strategy playbook of like issuing debt and equity to buy more and more and more on this like infinite money printed glitch. I think like a company that has a slightly irrelevant business model, GameStop is like a meme at this at this point to then go and like deploy assets into another. It's kind of feels like why would not just buy Bitcoin at that point?
Whereas Microstrategy's got this like flywheel effect thing going that everyone else to try to replicate. So slightly slightly different like mechanics on it, but. So yeah, there's a lot. Jason, we need to have you more. I want to ask you some questions here, but we need to why don't we do the you know, we got to talk more markets with you on the show. You, you know, you're shit. I like that. You know these guys.
We well, let's get into who you are and what you guys do at oros, because, you know, we talk about market makers a lot on the show. Obviously we talk about winter nuke the most, but you know when the token dumps, you know when a new sensitive regards, but but when a token pumps, you know, you know we we, we, we definitely don't give them the credit. I haven't heard that. I haven't heard that nickname before. That's not a bad one. Winter, Duke. It's. The first time you've heard.
That I'm playing though, I, I like the folks there. I got some homies obviously out there and, and, and, and they're, there's some of the best ones. But Jason, you know, you guys, Otros, of course, we've, we've hosted some events together. We recently hosted the Dubai token 2049 event. You sponsor a ton of our events, you know, you're partnering with us in many ways, which I can't talk about just yet on the myriad level, but soon.
I can't wait. But why don't you just give yourself a brief intro and you know what Auris does? Yeah, cool. We do a little bit more than just sponsor events with Farooq and the rug radio thing. But so we're a market maker. Auris is a global high frequency trading firm. So we've started about 6-7 years ago now as a, as a group of traders, technologists that we're just building out systems to trade across crypto markets. At the time, really inefficient crypto markets and mostly C5 at
that point. Yes, we spent sort of the first three years building out that tech stack and ended up becoming one of the largest trading firms in the world when it comes to the volumes that we put through markets, primarily at its genesis through centralized venues. But increasingly over the last few years, as D5 sort of started to reach that feature parity, feature parity area and, and start to deliver on the ability of for us to be capitally efficient and provide our liquidity on chain.
We've started to do that more and more. And we were just talking about hyper liquid is a venue that we're we're pretty familiar with. We've done, I believe, the largest amount of volume all time on that, on that exchange itself on the leaderboard, which people can take a look at. We trade on the venue. There's a lot of activity there. And it's, it's one of the venues that we use alongside some of our centralized and other
decentralized platforms. So my my role at the company is on the commercial side of the business, So less on the trading side of things. I sit with the head of trading in Hong Kong and trading teams there. My job is to work around how we can repurpose our ability to understand markets, provide liquidity, which is sort of what happens when we trade anyway in the size we do. How do we do that for external partners?
So really working with token projects right from the early stage, we venture invest at like pre seed and seed rounds, and then we start to work with the team to build relations ships as they approach the need for a token. And now as a token market maker, I shouldn't say this, but not everyone needs a token. But for those that do, they start to look into like, how do I create the best like garden
for success? And when you're talking about like pump fun and, and where can it go 4 billion higher or lower, you're really discussing the granular metrics or things that would go into like building that flywheel or setting up that recipe for success. And that might be token buybacks or it might be like best in class liquidity in the books. When you work with like a firm like Oris, we're not directional as such. So like the pumped up on going up or down view doesn't really matter to us.
What we're doing is acting as sort of volatility compressors. We're providing bids and offers into the books at all times to reduce that excessive volatility that can really make it hard for people to hold early stage tokens in particular, everything right out the curve to to smaller FTV projects, 50 million and around that region and then right up through to the multi
billions of dollars of launches. We're pretty comfortable doing that stuff because we do it for ourselves just in in larger cap tokens where there's like an economic reason to do so. That's kind of a quick overview. I'm based in Hong Kong. We have 133 people globally now. We just opened an office in New York. Yeah, I think like that's fairly lean for sort of what we do in the space.
But yeah, we've got to just open an office in New York where we're going to have a bunch of venture guys, commercial facing people, researchers. So primarily like a hub to make sure that we have more exposure to that market as as the landscapes changed in the US And I'm happy to talk about it, our views on that as well. But yeah, sorry that was longer than expected, but really excited to be here and and thanks for having me on guys. No, this is sick.
Well, 130 people. I was not aware of that. That grew really fast. Question for you because you said, you know, not everyone needs a token and that you help a lot of these companies, though. However, and we talk about market makers a lot in the space. I feel like market makers have grown to have this like more negative connotation now in the space, right, Tyler Mando, when I think about the most because of the meme coins in general, which is why the joke, right?
Like winter mutants in regards or DWF, whatever. But what's up, Mando? Yeah, I think it's a misunderstanding of them. Like a. Lot of these are. You are you Zora's delta neutral for a large group of business, yeah. That's the thing there's. There's a couple of things. I think, like Mandy, you said, misunderstanding is probably the best way to put it. It's like. People's. Crypto Twitter is fast. It moves at 160 characters longer now, but like it has that
like short attention span. So surface level is as deep as they get and like people come to us and they go like market making is this and they bundle 50 different activities into it and they bundle up all market makers no matter how they operate or what they do. And it's all bad when I would say even if you get out of crypto and look in traditional markets, having a market maker there means that like people don't pay brokerage on Robin Hood, for example, like and
everyone likes that. I don't want to pay brokerage on equity trades on Robin Hood, but I don't want Citadel to make money off my flow. You can't have both things. They make money off your flow by providing you the very liquidity with which you trade for free. So like my first question to anyone is like market making bad, let's get rid of them from the space is like, do you even understand how bad the spreads
and liquidity would get? You think what happened when Trump launched A token and everything got sucked out? You talk talk about that across the space. So I think like getting deeper into the understanding of what differences are between what delta neutral market making. Mando, you've obviously understand this already, but what delta neutral market making is where we don't take directional views on, on projects.
We really are just providing bids and offers, being the buyer of last resort and the seller of last resort to make sure that there's not that excessive volatility. Well, I think, I think what people see is they see X sold to win to me or X sold to this market. Yeah. Exactly. They think that that, that that market maker is being
directional. Often like this is just a broad brush, but like often when the market maker has a disproportionate amount of the supply, it's been sold to them by the team or insiders and they have been hedged it with a, with a perp or some other way of maybe a broader hedge across the market. And I think often what they look at then it's like, Oh my God, like ex market maker has this much of A coin and it's gone down.
And actually what they should have seen that as is insiders sold to a market maker at a price who then hedged themselves with some sort of. What what this goes back to my point. You've, you've like group games. What the transaction you're saw you're talking about, that's like an OTC transaction to sell the tokens. We actually, when we're working with a project, we get loaned the tokens. So the transaction you see of tokens arriving in our wallet is a returnable loan.
It's not a, it's not a grant, it's not a purchase. We don't actually send the money at the time. What we sign up to do, and this is what we did when we got into the space was we guarantee that we'll provide the liquidity without those tokens you've loaned us for the period of 12/18/24 months, whatever the mandate's for. And then we have a, we have an option over the top to buy those tokens off the project at a price premium that's at the end
of the mandate. That's like if I fail halfway through, like Oris, I think pioneered in the space, this thing sounds crazy, but like contractual obligations, like saying what you're going to do, put it in a contract and then if you breach it, the contracts ended and you get punished for it, which sounds insane to people from the real world where
that's how it works everywhere. But in crypto, a lot of the time it was like give a bunch of the supply, to your point, a lot of the supply to a market maker and hope they're going to do the right thing. I'm not of the belief that any project should hope that we do the right thing. They should understand our incentives, construct deals that, you know, the structures that we use that make us do the job. If you don't get best in class liquidity from Auris for the whole entire term of the
mandate, we don't get paid. It's that simple. And that's how that's how it should be. And we, we sort of stand by that and, and we, we like to raise the bar, but that makes it hard for competitors, right? Because if they can't do technologically what we can do when it comes to trading, it's very expensive, very quick, but that's kind of where we see our Moat. We commit to doing what we say we're going to do. We put it in the contract, we guarantee it.
And if we don't do it, there's economic punishment for us, and then we put up bigger numbers than other people that make it hard for others to keep up how we approach the space. But the. Reason why you're like #1 trader on Hyper Liquid is because you do a lot of this hedging sort of stuff, which is like what people can do, right? We've seen that with Athena or we even spoke about the other day for when we had the show, We had this conversation on the
exact show. And I said to you, instead of selling farcorn, you could right now just short it on Hyper Liquid. And that was the training like 1.41 point 5. And I said like you could just sit there and earn a yield for the rest of the year, right, risk free. And then you didn't. And then? Why? Because I don't know this shit. I'm. Sorry, I'm not going. To start market making my fart coin position, you know I'm going to hold it.
You know, I'm going to be down a lot like I'm right now from the top, and then I'm just going to hold it longer, yeah, and hope that it goes back up. Just to critically like we, we're not the, we're not the number one trader of the hyper liquid token, though we do trade a lot of it. You're the number one volume. On Hyper Liquid. On like as in. Across. The volume, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How much volume have you guys done on hyper Liquid if you
don't mind me asking? Because you brought it up. I knew that, but you brought it up like. I think it's last I I looked at a few days ago or something with 135 billion I think. You guys, you guys have done $135 billion volume on Hyper Liquid. Just hyper liquid, yeah. That's just hyper. Liquid. Yeah, you can see it on the the leaderboard. Yeah, 137. Billion. Yeah, $2 billion.
Since, you know, a mere 2. Let me ask you something Jason quick, just for the sake of what can you share like how much volume do you do you guys do in crypto in general, like on a day-to-day basis weekly or monthly? Because you said just hyper, but I'm sure you do crypto com Binance. Yeah, it fluctuates like obviously like peak trading days when the markets are super busy and people need to trade and there's lots of activity going on. We'll do a lot.
I think peak trading day earlier this year was in excess of 10 billion on centralized exchanges and two 2 1/2 on chain I believe that day. So it's sort of like if large numbers on a single day, but that's not consistent. Like I think a better metric of it is sort of around 2 to 3% of global crypto volume we're transacting. So I mean it goes back to 130 people.
I mean, that sounds like a few, but they've got a couple of things to do, but I think like really digging into the details on like what Mark Magus actually do is, is super important. I'm happy to answer any questions you guys have about it or or happy to, well what. Do you like listen to, because I feel like you can you, I feel like you kind of went there like, you know, how, like what do you do and stuff?
And then what's this misunderstanding that like degens have or underestimation that they have about trading firms that silently operate like in the background like yours. But like, if you were to like, explain in layman's terms exactly what you do and how you make your money on the $135 billion sale hyper liquid. The the trading activity itself matters Spot on. Like we.
Run a lot. Of delta neutral strategies like where you're you're looking at funding arbitragers and you're looking at statistical arbitragers. We have some corn strategies that run in the medium frequency space. We can see a high frequency trading firm. So we're looking at all the venues we're trading at, working out where we think our theoretical cheap and expensive point is putting up bids and offers through the market and making markets. That's where the name comes from.
And and by doing that, we provide liquidity people. So if you want to go buy a whole bunch of Bitcoin on one of the venues where we trade, which is the major venue where you would want to buy any size, you'd end up inevitably trading against us. So we're not unhappy to be a seller of Bitcoin there because we've got some other position on or a hedge against it elsewhere. And we're earning on, like Maddow said, in a very simplistic manner, we're earning
in other ways. We have strategies that on a long enough time scale in a delta neutral fashion, we'll continue to to add profit and and revenue to the business and the benefit to everyone. I kind of think like people say this sort of cheesy stuff all the time, but like liquidity ends up being like the lifeblood of the market. We don't trade that way on hype, on finance, on Coinbase. We just don't trade the way we trade in that size. Everyone's cost of transaction goes up.
You don't have to. You have to start thinking like, cool, what am I actually buying in for? How do I execute it, you know, paying fees on every transaction I do. Or is it like moving wallet money around liquidity on bridges, all that sort of stuff that's all underpinned by liquidity. And I think people get away from the concept of likely market makers bad don't care if they're in liquidity. If they really dug into like what would happen it, it's not
going to be great. It goes back to like the heyday of, you know, some of the early exchanges where there was just no liquidity in the transaction fees people were paying. Now all of that gets dwarfed if Bitcoin does 1000 X again or 10,000 X again, wherever you bought in. But ultimately, as the market matures and gets more efficient,
it needs to be liquid. And another benefit that we provide is just because of economic incentive, not because we're like altruistic and helping the space necessarily, but we arbitrage prices back in the line. So it means if you're trading on a DEX or you're trading on a sex or you're trading on some sort of hybrid version of that, the price should be the same, right? It shouldn't be a bad experience to be AUS user and stuck on Kraken or or Coinbase.
You should be able to buy the token for the same price as everyone else. 100% some people, some people, some people loving what you're saying. Jason, quickly your your Twitter account is Oxj Adkins, right? Yeah, that's made personally. And then Oris, I think is Oris under score? Global. Just for people who want to follow, it's Oris Global. Jason, you didn't put a banner. I told you, you put a banner on your Twitter like a month ago. God damn it. So I got to clean all that up.
It's a it's a dark space I'm going to fix up so. You're like one of the biggest chats and smartest individuals I know in crypto. And then I look at your Twitter page and I'm like, it's the opposite of it, you know? Yeah, come on here. It's so well spoken. People are loving. You more comments are good
there's. 2000 people watching. On. Video everybody's like yo, who is Jason You know I'm so I'm sharing his thing you know OX Jackins, chief commercial officer at oros he's based in Hong Kong check him out he's the guy with 142 followers or he should probably add 2 zeros to that based on his his his his input and what he knows but anyways, Tyler, I think you got to. I got a couple questions, one quick one. So do you ever take directional bets on on tokens?
Yeah. So we like when you say directional, our strategy is broadly delta neutral. But what we're looking at is like different skews and parameters around the market. It wouldn't be like outright like we're going like leverage long certain things in aggressive size. We do have discretionary parts of the business like our ventures book is outright long projects, right. We're investing at a very early
stage. So yes, we have directional positions in the firm and we have traders of varying experiences across like really high frequency, delta neutral stuff right into like medium frequency where those sorts of like judgment calls start to start to play into it as well. But it's not really our edge. Like there are plenty of like big betting hedge funds out there that that take huge
directional bets. But yeah, most of the time we're trying to maintain delta neutrality so that we can continue to expand across the space and and provide liquidity in bull and bear markets. Not good for everyone. If like we're like ultra long everything and then their market hits and we're like we've just lost all our money and now we can't provide liquidity and it's even worse for everybody. So it's kind of a good thing to be neutral.
And perhaps the last one, I imagine you have to have some kind of a broad market outlook near term, mid term, longer term, you know as you're managing these positions and overall training strategy. I think there's a lot, there's growing concern out there right now of a double top of top sides, Trump going deeper into crypto pump fund token launch, like people are kind of adding to the list. But at the same time, we've got like this global liquidity
influx focus on growth. I'm curious, what's your broad outlook on the crypto market right now, if you think we're we're in for a top or more room to go? Yeah, look, I, I probably just my background's macro, so it's kind of like a zoomed out approach. So I'll probably get away from like his one O 5 region. The the sort of topic for this for this round. And then we pull back. What I will say is the dips are going to be shallower and shallower and shallower.
I think like the ATF news last year was this like buy the rumours sell the fact. That's not a reflection of the fact that it's not good news. It's a reflection of the fact that crypto Twitter has the attention span of of a six year old. So ultimately, if you think about who can now buy exposure that forces more buying and Bitcoin, Ethereum, and and by proxy the rest of the space as it expands, it's guys that move slow. It's guys that do quarterly investment reviews or yearly
investment reviews. And they have mandates like I can't buy an ETF until it's been around for two years. That constant pulse will sit under the market at all times. So like, am I bullish at 105110 in the short term, I guess is as good as yours? Am I bullish on the fact that this space is now inevitable and that we found product market fit and now we've found institutional investment fit?
Yes, and that will mean dips will be shallower than they have been previously, less painful even this this bear market pull back that, you know, we're going back to 75 K and Bitcoin didn't really feel that bad. Like a lot of money has been extracted from the space because of things like pumped up fun and things like that and and a lot of the bad things that have
happened in this cycle. But ultimately it didn't really feel anywhere near as bad as what happened with FTX and the last real bear cycle that we had. So to answer your question directly, like I am bullish on the space after hearing Joe yesterday, I'm super bullish on
my very light Ethereum bags. But it's I think there's a lot of exciting stuff coming up for firms like us that are very finance D5 focused to see like the potential for what Joe was talking about, which is like AD 5 resurgence on Ethereum because you've got really interesting features coming to the chain that will speed it up, make it feature parity with the fact that we're going to be able to trade on places like mega Earth,
for example, that's going to be designed around being super fast for firms like us. It suddenly makes our strategies deployable on chain versus previously we only had off chain. So I'm bullish on the overall like innovation that's coming into the space. I'm bullish on the institutional demand that will sit as a pulse constantly below the market, not to mention all these bitcoins, Solana, Ethereum strategies that are adding more demand again and
again. And then I'm, I'm kind of bullish on the fact that we have trended from pretty much no on chain activity when I joined the firm a little under four years ago. So like 10 to 15% of our firm is now trading on chain. Like do I see that trend continuing? Absolutely. What will make that happen? Feature parity, more things that we can do on chain and then more users on chain, which I think if pump funds raising a billion dollars, they're not doing it.
It's either they're doing it to to raise a billion dollars because the valuation or they're doing it because they've got something in mind that they want to do build on the platform and the brand that they built. So I'm I'm excited to see what that brings. I'm with you your thoughts. Appreciate that. Some really good thoughts, Jason. All right. Any final things you want to show that they weren't over time, but that was really, really, really insightful.
Jason, any last things you want to share call out here on the OR side or we need to have. Yeah, I'm happy to like guys, long time listener, first time caller, but like I'm happy to dial in anytime you guys want to chat markets or there's big launch coming up and you want to understand like at a launch of work or like what does it mean to like get a listing on an exchange? We can bring people on the
experts in that. We have a pretty good group of people across the firm that have been doing this for a long time. So understanding market microstructure, liquidity, supply, demand, how to launch a token, how to work with exchanges, all of those little things that like a founder who's a genius building pump dot fund doesn't need to think about as much until they're launching A token. Happy to hop on with you guys and chat it through.
I mean, I'm think if I can speak to your listeners and have a bunch of people that like go a little further than surface level market maker bad. I think that maybe I've added a little bit to to the space and hopefully we can have easier conversations with people that are looking for like true help to have a successful token launch. And and that's where we want to fit and, and what we're trying
to do for the space. So yeah, more than happy to guys and and thank you very much for having me and and letting me have a having the mic for a few minutes. Well, appreciate it, Jason.