Another beautiful day to have a beautiful day. I got my co-host in the house who is attempting to go into hibernation. Mandel. I don't. I am doing great. I'm doing great. I'm here to. To defend myself if I'm honest, like. No one's allowed to say anything critical, but you are here to defend yourself. You are going to be put in the hot seat today and it's just you and I though I as soon as I started the space let me send rug radio another co-host and I
already sent one. I'm gonna try another one. We got rugged like this space has got rugged. But the second I started the new space, like the second I started it, first person that came on was bit God and he requested to speak somebody You fuck it. But I said big God on. I guess he wants to hang with the boys today. So we'll have him on on stage, go to you maybe a couple of times. He was good with you, but but we
are here. Let me just reshare the space in the broadcast, because it's been a long time since I got that road, actually. But we're here and we're gonna post the video so we're actually live on audio and on video across every single platform on the surface of the Earth. I've been seeing some twitch comments lately. I gotta say a pretty out of pocket comments coming out of twitch. So it is what it is, but I don't know if you've been reading on the side.
Sometimes has a twitch and it's like the most craziest stuff As usual, GMF, Tanya, Roberto Zolt, Yano Bombs, Conk and everybody in the audience. So anyways, today on the show today, today I had my topics and then we got rugged. But it's October over Mando turns bearish is the crypto head industry blur Season 2 has a date and it's not in 20-30 which is pretty pretty crazy though I mean I'm pretty sure anyways any whatever NFT roundup, quite some news coming out of the NFT
space. The cryptos notably selling for 1000 deaths gutter cat getting acquired and whatnot. So there's there's some news coming out of there and last but not least will be joined by met AMS. So dope conference, you're probably going to be seeing us at the beginning of November the same time as break point. So I break points are pretty big one. Oh oh damn, I see where's there? I don't know what am I gonna do with two bears on the show? It's gonna be crazy cause I got
OB&O is my my, my bull bull. Bearish or like in in general. I think Wiz is long, right? This is long when the markets up and he's short when the market. You know, where's this, where's this whizzes, Which is an interesting character, you know, it depends how the timelines feeling and he's got he'll go by timeline. You know it depends on whether his knee is hurting or not. But he's there so so maybe we'll
get him on as well. But anyways, as usual, this show is powered by Kraken, so check out krakenftxkraken.com/rug Radio to give it a look. And what's up? Roberto's asking is Meadow chubbier? I I don't think he's looking chubbier. Myself, no, I don't believe so. I don't think you. Look too. More hair. Like my hair look weird. Different camera angle as well today. Maybe that's it. I don't know enough. You don't look chubbier, though. I don't know if you saw me recently.
No, you don't. The same weight. So dude, motherfucker has this guy. He's got a craziest triceps. I've ever felt this cause guys triceps are like the size of my wrist. It was cert absurd. I was like sheesh look at these triceps. But anyways, anyways, so we want to get this party started and disrespect and get to the market. It's been $100 million worth of liquidations and sell offs mainly in alt Their market has
been selling off. You know, I'm seeing a lot of bearish sentiment on the timeline. We've gone from October to reck Tober. Samantha, why don't you give us a ATL or what's happening in the market today? Yeah it was bad yesterday. I think ETH bottomed around 1550. Bitcoin went down to 27.2. Most old coins were down about 3 to 5%. I would say a lot of liquidations. We then bounce. Bitcoin kind of went back to almost unchanged over the day.
It was only down just shy of 1%. ETH is still hanging out below 1600. And all kinds of also underperformed. Bitcoin dominance is a three month high. I think that your Bitcoin ratio is something like a 15 month low as well. So it was bearish for some parts of the market and I would say
bullish for others. Obviously yesterday you had the market initially reacted pretty badly to what's been going on in Israel. So stocks went lower, oil was higher and then by the end of the day stocks kind of were higher, yields were lower and general macro had a bit of a better day yesterday. So I think that's partly what caused the the, the bounce in in crypto or at least in Bitcoin. And then this morning I need to double check, but it looks like we're opening slightly higher last time.
Actually we're up about nought .5% and bond yields are down even further again today. So it looks slightly better on macro. And the only real thing to benefit from that has been Bitcoin where dominance is going higher. So you weren't, I mean yesterday you were on, but for the market part I didn't have you on. I was talking to was talking to Olivia about the price of oil
and everything. And obviously the impacts of what's happening in the Middle East at the moment is these impacts are still obviously probably still going, it's obviously still going on right now. But what are what are your thoughts on all that? Anything. Oil. Oil has dropped like 12% in in the last, In the last, it had been going on an uptrend. It was approaching $100 and then it dropped very, very rapidly when stocks started to drop.
So it's up, but it's not even as high as it was last week, let's put it that way, or maybe 10 days ago. So it's up, it's up about four or 5%. There have been some. The oil market is like there's so many big factors. Part of it's to do with like Russia and some of its export bans and part of it's to do with demand seemingly falling off a Cliff. And part of it's to do with the strategic, like it's a supply and demand thing as much as it is about macro.
But yeah, generally or in the Middle East means oil higher, so oil went up and that that could be bearish because the Fed again might have to raise rates. But interestingly on the back of this. Yields actually dropped because. Or like bond yields are often seen as a safe haven to people investing them when when there's more. So we we didn't necessarily have the impact that people thought they would have to raise rates because it was higher.
So it's kind of a mixed bag, like very difficult to work out what this does. You don't have. You have no idea how that develops it either. But I don't have a strong view on what that means for macro in many ways that you can have various different impacts, particularly in how it develops. But yeah, for crypto it meant that. It it meant that bond yields were lower, and that generally took Bitcoin slightly higher to gold, slightly higher gold than having a good few days.
So that digital gold narrative was the strongest one again yesterday. Alright, well I guess we'll see where that keeps going, but it's definitely not looking too great yet. Been following quite closely. I don't know if you've been obviously I'm sure you have with the minutes and stuff. But what's happened in the Middle East, it's not looking to have been we. I don't think we've gone any further in terms of. Well, I think it's gonna happen now.
I think it's a very, it's a very difficult scenario right now because there's obviously there's a lot of things that have been going on recently which is like a thawing of relationship between Israel and and Saudi Arabia, UAE, there's a lot of Bahran who basically fund the masses like it doesn't want that to happen. So this, this, this conflict can also be seen in a wider view of a Saudi Iran, sorry, Saudi
Arabia Iran conflict as well. Both of them are trying to get nuclear bombs at the moment, so and neither of them want to derail the ability to get that. So it's like it's just a mess in my opinion and it's obviously horrific for everyone there and it's a horrific situation. But yeah, I think this probably escalates from here rather than de escalating my opinion. Yeah, I have a few people on like notifications on and trying
to follow as much as possible. But also man, I have to say X has become a cesspool of like misinformation and traffic content. Have you have I've. I've been having a few conversations with that with with with some people. But have you noticed the same thing on your end? It's crazy dude. Like. I personally, I mean, I I got ill on Friday. Yeah, that's true. But I was, if you noticed, of those four or five days, I just didn't post anything I wasn't enjoying beyond the app.
Because I thought. It was horrific and I wasn't feeling well, so I was just like, no, I'm just not going to be on the app. And yeah it's it is a bit like that. I mean, as soon as the content philtres were like turned off, remember you saw all these like fights. Remember it was like what more violence you saw on the time I straight away. That is human nature to a certain extent. I know, like, people don't want to admit it, but like, that does grab attention. It does.
And you see these, like, people stocking culture wars on the timeline and that grabs attention. Like we kind of debate to outrage. Or like what can provoke outrage or what can provoke your attention, even if it's graphic. And so that's the way X has been going for a while now. Went from fights to now just like murder and dead bodies you see pretty regularly on the timeline and in war it often leads to like sensationalist takes or like. Just misinformation sometimes,
they said. We're fighting like propaganda misinformation, graphic content. And then of course like two sides usually multiple side sides arguing. So it's been it's been a it's been intense it's I was talking to a few people about this actually today that we've all been noticing the same thing and it's just a lot like I I woke up
very early today to go golfing. He's not here or else I'd be busting your chops right now for ten with 10 minutes of golf talk because I did score my best score right now. Yeah, but, but, but, but, but, but wake up at like 5. Something was before sunrise open.
Open my feed. The first thing I saw was like some insane bro, like insane graphic video and that was just like, yeah, no, not at 6:00 in the morning, you know, I mean, like I can take it usually ish, you know, Especially after these days. I feel like I've become desensitised. But then I was just like, yeah. I'm not having that. Like not. It's insane. So just shut down the app. So I think. I think that's for a lot of people, right? Like it's a lot of people.
And also to a certain extent, there's. The purity and not having censorship. But as a business, are you really gonna have advertisers advertising on this platform right now? Like, no. When you're seeing that, that's like 40% of the content on your timeline, no, it doesn't necessarily like it's basically become almost live leaks, which is like that really horrific graphic video website.
And don't see anyone like that, must get some engagement, but normally you don't have big advertisers on that. So I think, yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how that develops. Yeah, definitely, definitely weird stuff. So that's why I wanted to bring forward and I don't blame you for not wanting to be on the
platform so much. It's definitely weird times and we don't really love that anyways so on the back of the second topic want to bring up today obviously on the back of the market talk you know is a is a there's a tweet from our great friend with I see him with the audience set you I sent you an invite you know take it and comes chat with us. But will there ever be another bull. And of course sometimes the joke is like what if we crap forever
you know. And it's funny because that that's come up a few times for me in the last few days and and I'm gonna, I'm just going to share my screen here so you could all see the tweet that I'm following. So it was your tweet, Mando. Which is why I've been, you know, kind of bugging you all morning about you being embarrassed. You take bearish, you know, you put a tweet out today. It's my guess is the true crypto bull market will take longer than 2024.
Right now crypto offers a decentralised store of value and transaction network while debt and explodes and Fiat currencies, the values blah blah blah and a bunch of other stuff that you wrote. But wizard is Soho came in hot here and says LOL what if there is never a bull market in crypto again? Also how is goat devaluing if dollar is the strongest it's ever been and is the biggest safe haven at the moment? Crypto has been around for what 15 years plus now it's old boomer technology.
And then he went on, I think and that's what you sent me but to probably tweet the most bearish, I I called Mando bearish and then he said you want to see bearish? And he sent me with his tweet, like literally and is arguably the most bearish take I have ever read in my life on Twitter. And he says the only thing that has any narrative is Bitcoin. Everything else is trash and has no real world use at all other than gambling, money laundering and scams. I mean, what do you think about this?
He calls script, an old dying technology that has no real world purpose other than speculation, scams or gambling. This is after 15 years and billions of investments to grow. It look quite the opposite stance of Jesse Pollack that was on the show and saying that for the first time since he joined the space, he feels like there's some real infrastructure in place and some very obviously very bullish sentiment, right?
And I feel like, I feel like you're not feeling the same Mando, you're not the same person as you were with me the other day when we were hosting together in the same room. So explain yourself. It's not that I am, it was. It was on the show because he's he's on. Now he's on. Yeah, yeah, I'm not. Yeah, I'm here. NOT like. So for example I got I came into crypto in 2021. At that time I came in because of the NFT cycle as long as
everyone else did. And for me, at that time, I mean, we just had had Defy Summer. And NFTS were another for me are going to be a huge application and they ended up seeing these huge massive trading markets on the back of NFTS and DFI or or DPI farming and all this sort of stuff. That was a massive driver for me of the use case of ETH, because it's a programmable blockchain, right? You can do different things with
it, different applications. And for me, NFTS and D5 presented huge applications at the time for that to happen. If you even were around 12 months ago, even off TX like the FT market was, it took a hit but it was still still going and Defy was still going as well. It wasn't that bad and I still felt like in the rebound there as an application chain was very, very strong. What we've seen over the last 12 months is a lot of those narratives have gotten even
worse. So NFT is obviously I think we're having the lowest number of volume, it's not just about the. Diffraction like mincing amenities, it's like the volatility trading in these in these assets for it to really like burn gas. And then with D5, I think with TDR's down about 40% since then
as well. So those two applications have had a very, very tough 2023. And then you take a step back and you go like what else can you use blockchains for like why would you need a public Ledger of anything? And the main things for that is financial systems, it's trade, it's like sending cash across border.
Probably we're seeing the ability to do borrowing and lending against assets and other forms of like let's say trad fibre on the blockchain that's broadly been repurposed as something called Rwas. So it's the idea that you can, you know, you can buy treasuries right now, you can lend to consumers in India right now and different platforms and that's done about 6X over the last over the last year and you have about a billion of assets in Rwas right now.
But it's not, it's not at the same level as D5 even now, and it's not at the same level as what NFTS was, particularly in terms of trading and the other main things that people say, like why would you need decentralised Ledger things like gaming, things like which can be useful. The whole concept of like a metaverse has really taken off. But the idea that transactions for game assets could be quite a
big thing and we've seen. Other narratives, obviously the social narrative happened recently. We've had the, we've had the, we've had various different gamble gambling narratives. Just kind of kind of speaks to what Wizards point is. There's like speculation is still like probably the number one utility right now, but it's actually continuing to last. Like meme, coin season was probably the main burner of gas for the last 6-6 months.
But that to me like also and VC funding is at a three-year low, so like for for ETH to really thrive. It needs applications and for me, I think that we are still a while away from those applications being built. The main ones I can see actually being huge are is RWAS. It's basically trad file moving on, but that requires not just things being built, it requires regulations. Umm, particularly about, like secretary securitization.
The SEC has been giving some waivers to people like Maple Finance to do stuff with Treasuries, but it could definitely use some. Use some more clear guidelines for other people to start putting assets on chain. And so for right now at the main bull case for crypto, if the applications are not really kicking off is the idea that it's a decentralised or value. It's like a digital gold narrative. Bitcoin has that narrative right
now. I would argue that ETH is an even better decentralised store of value than Bitcoin. I mean, for me ETH has been deflationary. Right now it's inflationary, but over the last 12 months it's been deflationary. I actually think the end state of ethers is. It's more secure. I think that Bitcoin runs into security problems with time, but. And I still think programmable money is is a slightly better system for like building a payments network anyway. So like, but Bitcoin has that
narrative. Bitcoin has gone through several cycles. It's the digital goal, which is why this year Bitcoin has just been trashing, it's been trashing, it has needed these applications, They haven't really been happening. And Bitcoin has just been right where digital gold. And that is attractive in a world where people are increasingly being like, I'm worried about a blow up in in debt. I'm worried about a blow up. And inflation.
I need this like a hedge. Like if you're a billionaire right now and you're thinking right, how can I hate myself against like a bit of catastrophe? I'm buying things like gold, uranium, and things like and things like Bitcoin. So it's got that hedge narrative, and each doesn't really have that. And I think the other thing about that is that most of the other ones. Have been completely destroyed.
So like there is that it goes Bitcoin 5500 to let's say 550 billion each 200 billion and then it's like Solana at 10, right. So like it's a massive gap to the other ones. So people are looking and going like well, if all the L ones are not really doing much, the risk reward maybe in some of those is even better. So you've had some people look again at things like Solana right now and been like well, I don't think go down that much and it's probably got more of an upside.
ETH has basically not really much is going on there. There is more going on in the L twos, but that doesn't really burn gas in the same way that we need it to. So it's just a tough spot for youth right now and I think people who are going like right, we're going to hit 5K NK Earth. I think you need applications to get there and I think that we could take a little bit of time for.
That. Yeah. Alright, so listen, I'm gonna go right now to the Wizard of Soho, because of course it's your tweet that we're recording for, for, for the, for the, for the topic of the day. And then I'm going to go to bit God here who seemed to throw some some emojis at you regarding your decentralised Ledger comment here. But wizard? What do you have to say about your comments today? You know I I just want to make it very clear it's not that I'm
like price bearish. It's more that I just don't see like I think there's no place better to make like money than you can in in crypto just but it's the application right. So like I'm a big fan of meme coins so I think there's no else nowhere else from a another class that you can make like gains like you can in crypto. So it's not that I'm. Bearish per se, like I'm very long right now, so the only thing for me is the long term viability of all these other
coins, right? Like if you look at even like, you know, like let's look at the automotive industry, like from when it started there were over like thousand different automotive companies like in the late 1800s like you know, when the the automobiles were just getting started or whatever,
right? Or in America alone forget all the foreign countries, just America only free survived out of like over 1000. In 1999, 2000likeinthe.com bubble in the 1st Q1 there was like I think we're like 607 hundred of companies, like tech companies launched, not a single one of them has like has survived till now. So my point is that all this other trash that's there, like it's all going to get consolidated into like Bitcoin and like you know, eat maybe, possibly and like maybe
something else right. And maybe some meme coins, like at the fact that Dodge is still a multi billion dollar, you know, meme coin. Goes to the point and even Shiba and all that, right? Because again. What's that So Pepe. It's sure.
I mean it's mind blowing that it's 300 million to be honest like that that's like absolutely same but it's but that's what I'm saying like I think the fact that I said that you know the best use case of crypto is scams, gamble, FY and all that is actually kind of a bullish statement. If you change your mindset like if you're like, oh, this is the next big like, you know, bond market or the next big stock market and you just kind of retune yourself as like listen.
It's a casino and you know if you if you think about it like that, there's a lot of money to be made. I mean you can make Gen wealth like almost every week in crypto if you're like looking at the right meme coins and stuff like that. I mean there's millions and millions and millions of volume every day, so you can easily entry with size and exit with size. So I'm very bullish on crypto and that sense.
I just I just feel like for me having that grasp like listen I'm not going to think like Solana is going to go to 500 in the next year. So if you rewire your mind. Crypto to focus on what the actual potential, where the volume is. I think there's there's like a lot of money to be made. I think long term, yeah, everything's gonna get consolidated. Like it happens with every market. It's gonna get consolidated into just a few things you're not going to see. Like I don't think you're going
to see anything. Like I think Bitcoin and ether is the only potential to get through maybe all time high, but you gotta realise like what the catalyst says. The catalyst really isn't like applications. The catalyst isn't, you know, whatever. This may be the catalyst is actually the money flow. There's no money flow coming in like you have a stock market that's basically like at like all close to all time highs.
Yeah, it's being driven by like you know the big seven like whatever the the largest tech companies. But it's still like it's one of the fastest bull market like the fastest increases in stock prices in like 100 years from like year to date this year like in in the tech stocks like NASDAQ especially. So like, there's a lot of money that's coming in, it's just nothing coming into. Worked out, crypto only sees excess capital. Now it's seeing the excess excess capital.
So the first tier of capital that goes, you know, will go like when money flows through, whether it's investment funds, whether it's pension funds, whether it's money being printed from stimulus, whatever it may be, it goes, you know, bonds, it goes stocks, then it goes a little bit higher risk. So things like commodities, then it goes to emerging markets and so on. Then it goes into like emerging technology, like hot technologies like AI.
Stuff like that then and all of those brackets are filled then it goes into like high speculative. So then it flows into crypto. So when you had this stimulus in like 2020 the the COVID stimulus, that's how the money flew through. So you had like 2 trillion in stimulus and you you had like crypto hit like closer to forget what the Max market cap was like you know like close to 2 trillion. So I think Max the stimulus was like 2-3 trillion. So say like 5% of that came into
crypto. So given the fact that you know, usually there's like 5 to 10%. Pretty for the entire crypto market if you have like you know 5%, like if you have like a couple billion dollars coming like say like ten $20 billion come in, you'll see like an entire market pump like you know, at least like twenty 2530%, right. So when you have that's the way that's the inflow. So there's no inflow of that. There's literally like all the
money is going into stocks. All the money is going to emerging markets like India is like seeing like insane amount of inflows. You're seeing all the money going into a I private equity. You see money going into crazy into carbon credits. A climate technology that's getting like huge amounts of inflows. So you're not seeing that much coming to crypto. What will come into crypto is if you see like, you know, a a big
stimulus. So when all those brackets get full and they're maxed out and they start hitting there like, you know, tops, that's when you see the flow coming into crypto and you don't need much because there's not so much liquidity in the market. Like even small inflows that come in can pump them. It's kind of like a meme coin, right? Like the entire market is kind of like a meme coin where you have small liquidity. So if you have a big, you have a big inflow.
You got a big pump, but also the same reason you get a big dump as well, right, which is why we we crashed so much well to other assets. So that's kind of my view. It's not that you know we're very clear. I think it's a very fair thing I posted and I feel like the fact that many didn't push back much yo makes me more. Time saying you're trying to get my boy into hibernation. He's like in the text that we mean.
Oh, he's like, I'm not bearish. I'm like, you're not bearish, but it looks like you're about to go into hibernation. I'm trying. To stop, but exactly right. So if you're going in and I think it's good to recognise the week, the week. Agree with you. By the way, I understand why, why you own something. And I I said to myself, I've said himself, ohh, yeah, like why do I own this? And the thing that I really like about owning crypto right now is that it is a bit of a safe
haven. And I think that that's going to be a valuable friend. And if you see the people with all the wild predictions for crypto, it's all that you know things are looking bad. Like crypto will provide the lifeboat, all this sort of stuff like Arthur Hayes, I don't know Kathy Wood. Then the ETF would also help
with inflows. But the for me, I feel like you need to have the an understanding of why you're an asset and for me ETH as programmable money that you can build applications on a $200 billion valuation.
I think you have to recognise that maybe the applications are not really popping off right now and that it's not that I'm bearish on it. It's just that I think it can be. There's a reason why it's being outcompeted and you just got this in this market by let's say Bitcoin and and I think it leaves it a little bit vulnerable because without those applications and a lot of these L ones have very similar arguments like we saw, we saw AVAX pump randomly because there was one app on it.
When there's such low valuations, people will be like well you know there's nothing going on anyway for these applications. So why don't if one thing happens like Solana gets one payments ecosystem it can pump massively whereas whereas for ether it's kind of already pricing that in. So that's why it's not a not bullish on that as a narrative and and I agree with you Wiz, I think speculation is like one of the main things like let's Defy
and NFTS is just speculation. It's just another it's a layer of speculation on top of speculation. But I still think that requires applications like we can just continually have mean coin seasons. But I think meme coins isn't enough to like drive. I know 5. 10X man, that's that's the thing, right? Is that it's it's fine. It's fine to be a speculative asset like like think about this, if you like, you invest in
a lot of private equity, right. So if somebody came to you and was like, hey, I have this this smart contract, various blockchain, it has a lot of like users right now but it's mostly meme coins. But they also have this like MPs. But we're going to our valuation right now is 200 billion. Would you put in like 50% of your net worth into that? Private equity. 200 billion valuation. They're coming in and this is
what they give you. That's what I mean it's it's it's not even that I don't think that I love the idea of the narrative that like it is the casino grip. Like ETH has got this casino narrative to it. Like you can continue to speculate on it but the two vulnerabilities, and this is me with and I have big effects.
The two vulnerabilities I see right now for the narrative is #1. The only really casino happening right now consistently is things like meme coins, everything that you had French like a lot and a lot of the other casino aspects are moving to L twos which doesn't help the gas narrative. It doesn't like ethers become inflationary because French was on an L2 for example and 12 months ago that was on L1. And the second thing is that the valuation is very high versus
other places, other casinos. I don't know how to describe that, but like you can run a casino and a lot of other ones and when they were like 20 to 50 and ETH has got this, this like walled garden of NFTS and D Phi and like everything going on, it's like obviously you prefer earth. But when these valuations are so low and they're down 90%, right, they are like 5. Most L ones are like souls at 9:00, but most of them are like 5-1 application can really just
drive a chain. So it can be, it just leaves it a little bit vulnerable. That's all I think, and that's what basically I was saying in that tweet, is that we have to recognise why is he underperforming? Why is why are these other things happening? Like why are people shitting on it so regularly? And it's because the narratives around crypto have slightly changed. Is this a temporary short term saying cause like the the whole like?
I've seen the narrative change around Earth over the last few days and like a couple of weeks ago when October started, it was the other way around, like when Earth pump. 1770 that time on the show, everyone's euphoric in the timeline and and by thank God we didn't celebrate right this time we were. Smart. But you know what the problem with that is? That people don't ever look at relative, but if you look at the BTC chart that tells you
everything, you. Need. Yeah, we were just looking at it. The earlier you just been it's down 10 points in the month right. It's just been I've been a lot more than that in the year right. It's been it's been a it's been it's. Been worse? Let me pull it up for you. Yeah, it's been a year. Thing. It's horrible. It's like, but listen, I'm gonna eat magically like like all 20%. Eat or in like Ethan of tease, right. Like, so I'm in it. Like I'm, I'm in it with you guys.
But like, I'm just saying like the fact if you can require your thinking, it makes it better in terms of exiting because then you're not. Like if you're a narrative built and I want the narrative that most people have to stick, that hey, we're going to hit 5K, we're going to hit 10K so that I
can exit. But if you like, if you're like, you know, especially this show like it's not like there's there's 188 people like that's not going to affect like if 188 people can exit with like pretty amazing levels like. Not gonna affect the price. But what if the whole narrative changes across the board Then it's problem, right? Because then I then we won't be able to kind of exit.
But the fact that the the the crypto narrative as a whole is still there like my tweet or Mando or us talking here is not going to change that. I hope it doesn't change it. But the few people in our circle, I hope if you build your narrative that hey it is a speculative asset means that we should be looking for exit. It shouldn't be something that you just hope forever, which is what, like maybe Bitcoin you can hold for like longer. It's like it's which makes sense
like fun. Like it's there's a stronger narrative and there's a a natural base case for it but like it it really isn't for like anything else And understanding that and making sure that like OK that's a speculative asset means you need to exit if you're gonna speculate asset you need to make sure you exit. But you're feeling something like gold. Yeah you hold you know the narrative for gold is what even though it is also a speculative
asset technically. But gold is just people just hold like oh you always hold gold like real estate right.
Like you can't go wrong with buying a house like those built in. And that's great for Bitcoin and crypto, but if you realise if you're in all these other coins and assets, yeah, you need to look for excess because you're not gonna get like if you're like, people argue with me that, you know, Solana or whatever is going to hit 500 in the next year, I'm like, what are you talking about? Like I don't. Know about the next year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Solana all time highs in the
next market. See. I don't think so. I don't think. From here I think. I think I. Think if it gets 200 is possible like at best like I I don't think there's any shot because you think about the volume you need to generate for at that hit because everyone's going to exit who have been buying all the way down. They're going to take whatever pump they can to exit.
Then you need to generate even more volume to like get everybody an exit bringing no new people who see the potential for 203 hundred because no one's going to buy 100 unless you see that, right. So the volume we need is like. Three to four acts of volume you had in the initial run. So that's why I said like you need like a 5 to 6 trillion of stimulus that comes into the economy. From there you get maybe 5% which will be 3 to 4 acts of what came into the market in the 2021 run.
So you need this is the same thing with like you know I always tell you like about the paper I think right the amount of volume need on pay for it to go back to all time high is like 3 to 4X of the original volume you saw. Otherwise you're not going to because you need to provide excess of everybody. Initially were on bringing new people and give them the potential to get more upside. That's the same thing for crypto as a whole as well. That's why I I mean I can be wrong.
This one I'm wrong at times. I could be wrong but I think it's a pretty fair statement I'm making while being long like there's no bag bias. My bag is saying like yo we're going to hit 50,000 on Solana. I would pretty big Solana bag but I'm being very sharp like listen we hit 304050. I'm going to be exciting like whatever. Like I can get. You can get free X and buying tech stocks right now. Like why would I go buy?
Solano so So what I would say is that I actually think that the the, the digital gold narrative is, is like a tried and tested narrative. Obviously. I also think the idea of like you need the casino and like if you consider everything like the casino where you can then build things on top of it, whether it's financials, whether it's NFTS, whether it's DFI. I think that's a narrative as well that can always play out. But as with says, that has cycles. That narrative has cycles.
And for those cycles to really peak and be sustained for a long time, like if you really want it to be sustained and not just a pump, you need that follow through of people actually doing things on the chain, right? You you need that. Like like it's not just me speculating on Solana, it's like some massive game being played that's gonna take us from 50 to 100, right? Like there's a huge game burning slower. Like there's a friend tech thing
burning. Like you need those applications where where like that extra layer of speculation for it to work. And what I was saying is that right now I think that the ones that were sustaining that last rally have slightly burnt out in terms of their fire. They can come back, but that they are if like VC funding was
starting to pick up again. And so the only real one I think, which I think can be huge, probably even bigger than all the other ones is this like we move trad fi onto crypto and you have huge lending across lots of different assets and people do that. That's a really big thing because it's just like, yeah, and it's just a huge casino and of every single asset essentially. But I just think that's going to take time. I think that's going to take probably three to five years.
But like you start to see the real foothills of it over the next in like 18 to 24 months and that I think can take E to like really high levels. I just don't think that's necessarily there right now. And I might be wrong like I'm only one cycle starting in 2021. People have replied to me my thing and said like actually what actually tends to happen is the price causes the site, like causes the applications. It causes like people get interested and that causes the
applications to be built. That could happen. Like what we could happen is price doubles. And what happens is a tonne of people come into the space and you see this like, again, this explosion of applications and things happening and VCs kind of pile in. But I don't know. I don't know if I feel super strong with that. I feel as though right now this if we get this ETF narrative and the halving narrative that feels like more of a pump to me that a blow off Top Valley and that's
what I was saying. It's like I feel like that's like an up 50%, up 75% maybe in like in a good scenario which you sell rather than right. We've got all this stuff about to happen on ETH and that drives you the next like 3 or 4X. So that's that's my view. Listen, I just don't have another like. OK, next year, I'll give you another year if you want, but at some point we've gotta, we've gotta ramp it up over here. OK, but I just wanna go to Big God Bigot. Any thoughts on on this
conversation here? Ohh man, a lot of thoughts I think. I think Mando and and Wiz are are are, I don't know. I agree with a lot of the different stuff. I think to the Ethereum side of things. I think that it's incredibly difficult to honestly find any any sort of L1 outside of of Bitcoin and Etherium that I think you should probably maybe Solana, but other than that I think it's incredibly difficult in my opinion so to make a case for.
Investing in in sort of those ecosystems other than you know your your your speculation stuff. I just think that it's incredibly difficult to get outside of of EVM and I think that that for some reason venture firms can have continued to pump you know cash into all
these other layer ones. And I just think that like the liquidity problem is going to continue to come up again and again regardless of how much better the tech is right to to sort of like suey and and and a bunch of these other. Ecosystems like I think that we've continued to see these narratives of of the tech is better with XL1 but that
ultimately doesn't matter. I think that like the the tech is being better is is is is one of the biggest scams I think that we've seen in in crypto since its inception. I would agree with with Wiz that I think is as soon as you sort of look at at crypto in general probably as as having great product market fit in the speculation market that you start to look at things I think entirely differently.
I I think that it's a really interesting thing to that point though that it has achieved product market fit in that specific category because you're talking about billions and billions of dollars every year of of of speculation and like that's a that's not a sort of small feat. And so I think that there is something to be said about that. Now I I think going into this next sort of narrative I think that it has to do or relies heavily on on sort of ETF
approvals. I don't know when that that ultimately comes. I know they continue to to be sort of pushed back but that's where my head's at. I think that that this this sort of next cycle is heavily focused around Bitcoin and Etherium or sort of anything EBM. And the rest I think continue to struggle even though I'm sure they'll see some new layer one or some of these other layer ones that were sort of darlings in the last cycle.
I think it's still going to be incredibly difficult to get any liquidity outside of of Bitcoin, ETH and and EVM sort of layers. Fair take, Mandarin. Moderately. I broadly agree with all of that if I'm honest. Like I would say that, yeah, big money for the only two that I like I think are gonna be long term viable. I think Solana's got this like attractiveness from the risk reward standpoint right now. Not I I'm not saying you should go invest in other. I'm.
I completely agree with what you just said, that the tech is not the issue. Like we don't need faster tech, we need we need people using it. Like, it's One of the main issues about crypto is that everyone's so focused on infrastructure and no one is focused on patients. But The thing is those application there are come in and look, I'm new too. I'm like you. Age with now. Same time so. Really loud. Like one of the most viral pages
right now. Like posting their friend tech and saying like, yo, like if you get like if you have the biggest key, will you take a giveaways and this and that. Like those mean pages and like crypto being more and more acceptable? Or like Netflix shows that I'm watching. Just like mentioning NFT's more and more and actually not just in bad light anymore. Or just like for example, next week I'll be with Kraken or partners in the pit for the Williams car.
Just NFT's on the fucking rear wing and they're giving collectables to everyone. Just be collectible. Stuff like happening with them yada yada yada. I'm just like there is like. There is a lot of still things happening. It's just we've dried out of funding of course like a lot of VC's actually broke for what it's worth like a lot of people don't even know that. But like a lot of this is over invested by law unless cycle and don't have money left. Like by the way all the visa
have money on Asia right? Even the EU doesn't even have that much money like it's in Saudi like and I'm just like that's just from conversation having almost every single day with like big people in space and on the West Coast. They they've ran out of money and they've given money to projects that went to zero, like almost all of them. Especially that's right and and and and then when you look at everything it's like it's just gonna take so much more time.
I just feel like it's a question of just like waiting and then as soon as the price all driving price stop driving back up Bitcoin having narrative ETF narratives and stuff the masters come because the massive you know they also and that's where Wiz is right. Like they want speculation and gambling which like gamble fires like so big right now and everything and all this bull bits and what are killing it. But you know I think I think we're gonna have to wait.
That's from my perspective someone who again, just like you. Only lived one cycle, right? Or sorry, I've only participated in one cycle, but I feel like we've fast tracked because we've participated every single day because it seems like you want to reply right away to something
Mandy was saying. No, I I think, I think generally agree with with Mando. I think one other other thing I was I was just going to state was I think potential sort of dark horse narrative that I think you know it might be a bit biassed of course because I sort of work in this in this in this sort of niche. But I do think that that a lot of the stuff you see on East will be will be sort of ported
over to Bitcoin as well right. And and sort of this this ordinals as well as just I think just building on the top Bitcoin in general. And so I think that that during this next cycle you're going to see a lot of the the same applications built on on built on Bitcoin utilising sort of PPTS, DLCS and I think that like that's being a bit overlooked.
I think right now I think you know I'm about to head to to Bitcoin Amsterdam and two of the the sort of headlining or main one of the main sponsors out of like 10 or so are ordinals based companies. And I think that like maybe that's that's not that that strong or crazy the signal.
But I honestly expect that over the next one to two years you'll start to see more of the main sponsors for for these you know Bitcoin focused conferences have more and more ordinals or or or just sort of like Bitcoin base layer companies or even layer two. So I'm starting to see a lot of ZK rollups being pushed as potential sort of scaling to Bitcoin. So I think that that you know this plays again into not only this ETF narrative but again like where ultimately money is flowing.
And I think like not only I think will Bitcoin have this store of value narrative, still I think it will also become a sort of flourishing ecosystem, one that's that's sort of rivals probably Earth, if not if not larger. And that's just my thesis. First, I mean, we saw, yeah, we saw as well as ERC 20, BRC 20 originals and FT blah blah. Like a lot of people start building fast on Bitcoin. We'll see what happens on that front. Wizard, you wanna give us the last take here?
Yeah, you know what Since we were talking about applications and potential future applications, what I think is going to be the next big wave and that could like that will push a crypto especially potential L1L twos and eat the only thing I'm hearing in like the. The private equity VC world, when money is in flowing and crypto is also being mentioned, is actually like the carbon side. Like a lot of, there's a big
issue with the. Carbon being able to like carbon reserves per se, the market making and exchanges and all that is pretty broken and like the real world and everyone's talking about converting those like tokenizing those carbon credits and having the reserves on chains in a one to one redeem. So just think like like a circle having one to one redeem on like U.S. dollar, right? Like like stable coins are like one of the biggest things that are traded worldwide and use cases.
Of crypto for example I like Brazil and stuff like they they use like die and USDT and all that like crazy right. Especially from because of inflation because of how like broken the the economy and country is.
Everybody wants to have this. So the the only thing I've been hearing like a lot from companies that are raising like crazy money, they're raising for carbon, but a lot of the debts have I've seen is that they're talking about having a part of the reserves tokenized and on the blockchain. So that it can be traded easily and it can cross country like cross-border trading which is like a big issue too.
And validation which was like the issue with like I don't know if you guys remember like Klima Dao. One of the reasons it failed was because, I mean it was like a huge thing but one of the reasons failed was because of the carbon credits were like not validated properly and they were ship credits. There's different types of carbon credits like it's not. No2 carbon credits are equal.
So that's something I've been seeing index a lot lately is tokenizing of carbon credits and carbon credits is supposed to have like at least like there's already like set aside like over like between 1 1/2 to 2 trillion. There's huge M&A going on behind the scenes like there are a couple of big like billion dollar buyouts of carbon services company because you like ramp up. So I think that could see a pretty humongous like like multi multi billion dollar volume coming into like.
Inflows for people wanna come in and, you know, trade carbon credits, especially if there's a 1 to 1 redeemed, then that means there's no arbitrage scenario between a like a real exchange trading carbon credits and on the blockchain. Kind of like how USDT and USC could be redeemed instantly 1 to one for dollar like cash. So yeah, I think that could in the next year or so see a massive, massive inflow. Obviously there'll be a lot of trash too that'll come in.
But I think that will be the next big wave. Personally, I think that will be crazy. That I think I would class that as the RWA side like these actual asset like yeah, crypto itself is a $1 trillion asset. There are about 400 trillion of assets include literally everything. If you can just start tokenizing some of those assets and putting them on a chain like we dwarf,
right. It's not like NFTS where I think the market capacities someone like 5 to 10 billion right now the major, major collections we're talking about. Fact is bigger, but for that to happen, I think you need very, very clear regulations like even tokenizing of carbon credits. They need to build the regulations around like actually securities like what would that be? And that's why I think it's a little bit of a longer lead time, but I do. That's why I'm super bullish.
Carbon credits to commodity, by the way, it doesn't follow. Yeah, OK. Yeah. Yeah. That's why. That's why I'm more bullish on the tokenizing of carbon credits is because, yeah, it sits as a commodity. So it's actually very easy to tokenize, I mean. There's a lot of money in flowing and there's a lot of capital even. What am I buying? Why are they not other? Why? Policies to the CFTC still need to look at other commodities, like why? Why have we not seen like oil
and stuff like? That, Yeah. Well, you're seeing gold, there's there's a gold 1 to one that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's gold 1 to one things you can buy that gives you like a direct exposure to gold. It's just, it's just A has not been marketed and B, there's just not a big demand like you can go buy gold very easily. Umm, you know, uh, cross-border on like any exchange, right? Like it's so easy. You can go to like a fucking pawn shop and just give money in
anywhere and buy gold. Like it's so easy. It's the stuff that's tougher cross-border and that's why I specifically said carbon credits, because it's very tough for to do cross-border trading of carbon credits and it'll be a long time even if they get like regulations individually in countries, it'll be way easier for people to do it on the blockchain then be able to do it on exchanges. So I think that will be big but. Other commodities like you, it's so easy. That's the problem.
That's why you're not seeing much tokenization of other stuff. Like there is a goal, but like you haven't seen that much volume because of that has like. That would be huge, I think. Obviously then you also need like the trad 5 firms, you can actually trade on this sort of
stuff that you need. You need that lead time I think of. Infrastructure you need you need the the the most important thing is you need that one to one redeem that stimulus right Like that's why the biggest volumes on all exchanges are USDT and USDC and guy right like. Like that's what people trade the most like or like youth case the most is that they they they use the the, the one to one to dollar and the reason is it's a no arbitrage scenario.
So when like you know for example when like over that one weekend we had where USC dumped down to like 85 cents or whatever like everybody was just buying it was like free money right. So because they know they can go redeem for one to one like online whenever they open it up or whatever it may be. So as long as you have that one to one redeem and like people like track 5, firms will come in if they're like, oh, I could go buy.
Dollars for like $0.95 and just sell it instantly and get like a a full dollar with like no slippage or like minimal slippage. Like, yeah, well people do that all day, especially if there's volume.
So that's why I think like the carbon thing will be huge, especially if there's a one to one reading and because of the commodity and because you can't like every little part hits so and the inflows were coming in, I mean the inflows in private equity and carbon is like insane and most of them have have been talking about some form of tokenizing a part of it. So that's pretty massive. In this case.
A lot of gems being shared today on the on the show this morning I really invite people to get back and and look on this. Listen I wanted to share a definition of RWA's on the Screener leader but when I googled RWA here in London I got the Royal Welsh Agricultural Society and I'm assuming you're not telling people to buy into that here this morning Mando and and it was but we could we should get into into more depth into all the stuff that's being expanded on today.
Maybe make some separate topics about this and and go deeper into this. What is it? I know that I think like big God, where's Mandela? You all have like made very similar points today and in the overall like grasping point is similar.
It's like you know it's gonna, it's gonna take a little bit more but we're we're definitely going to get there is just you know maybe be cautious cautiously bullish when it comes to price action and whatnot especially in the in these times and I'm assuming, you know it's not the easier times around the world especially at the moment. So thanks for the debate. That was a really, really good debate. Very healthy one shot. Big God, where's?
And of course Mando started this off with with your tweet this morning. Listen, I'm not going to go into the NFT topics today because we are already on the hour and I have to go to met AMS real quick because I heard that you're going to be in Amsterdam but for Bitcoin Amsterdam this weekend. So let us know how that went. Actually really curious on that. Maybe come back in a couple of days when or after the event when it's done next week and and give us the TLDR of that.
Definitely, definitely feel free to come back more often. Love that PFP. What? Was the cracking thing you said before. Although cracking, pitting I don't really understand. That ohh you'll see next week Thread guy and I are are are gonna be in Austin for the F1. Let me know if you're there with. Yeah, yeah, I am. Yeah, Ohh. Doing Rolex. Rolex invited me. So I'm going to there.
Well, your boy, yeah boy and I, yeah, TJ are gonna be in the pit with with and we're gonna be. Yeah, I'll be in the pit too, with the Alpine. Scene goes we'll be with the Williams team and we'll be we'll be interviewing the the drivers will be. Interviewing I'm pretty sure we're gonna try and get in here to see cracking as well. And they're cooking some stuff that I.
Can't talk about just yet. But they're coming on the show next week and given that they're partner of of rock Radio and of our show this morning, that we're gonna be doing some stuff with them. So definitely sad to see you then, because we're going to create content, Ji says. Me. Funny dynamic going on.
Yeah, that's gonna be awesome. On the side, yeah, as we fire, see the little things like this though that makes me excited about all this because I'm I realised like we're really like, I know it seems like things are gonna be slow. And everything. And we're still not over it. But you know, as a founder in space, very active founder, Berkeley speaking, you know, yeah, Rolex invited me with a flex. Everyone was like, yeah. Yeah man, they only invite 10 people. So. Let's go let's go.
Another friend of mine say yeah Lamborghini sent me two tickets and like OK, like I already feel super poor especially in this market you know like I but it's it's you know I I I love having all you guys around me. But anyways, the NFT stuff between the gutter cat gang acquisition we'll talk about maybe tomorrow and from maybe we get. You know what, let's just try and get the new founder on, the new owner on and and talk with him directly.
And the suspicious $1.6 million NFT purchase causing concerns of money laundering because we saw some money. Coming out of tornado cash from that thousandth today, by the way. Next time you wanna fat Finger or money Launder or toad, just there's a toad in my wallet. Like just like send me 1000 death. Send me 1000 death Bed. I promise you I'll take it. OK. Willing to send you back like 25% also. Wait, hold on. Did I just wait. What am I say on?
In case of an investigation by any federal entity or similar, I do not have any involvement with this group or with the people in it. I do not know how I'm here. Probably added by a third party. I do not support any members by any actions of this. Group there you go. And then the Rafiq anecdotes that started you know revealing and also boarded PL club of course again to A to a flooring labs that sold for 400K that for for for gold day. But hey those $400,000 for Golden Monkey JPEG.
So we'll take it but anyways pin at the top is a giveaway. We're giving away tickets to Met Amsterdam and we have the Met AMS team on stage right now. Sorry for the delay. I know you guys were meant to talk about 20 minutes ago. But you know, when you got a good debate and good content, you gotta keep it rolling like we just did this morning, thanks to Mando, Winston Biggart, but met MGM. How you doing today? GMG MGM Yeah. Can you guys hear me alright? Ohh, we can hear you alright so
tell us more. Seems like Amsterdam's like Amsterdam's the spot. Like you got a Bitcoin conference this. Weekend, I know. You got break point which is Solana like a massive you know Solana comfort like huge conference over there and then at the same time actually right it's it's same days we have men have same guys like you guys in N1 to 3rd I think they're a day before you but we got met AMS and you know we got our own.
Whole lot of people going out there from at Amsterdam, so tell us about what's happening over there? Yeah, it's mad, right? Like, it seems like Amsterdam, out of nowhere, just became this kind of Web 3 hub. I think it's just because there's a lot of weed. Probably. I I would say there's something. So it has something to do with that that some people are not being honest about, but we like to think we can offer a bit more
than just that and that happens. But yeah, now we've got, we've got a wicked line up this year lots of people in town as you said for break Point. I think what's been really interesting to see is that there's been quite, I don't know like Web 3 Maxi conferences popping off and I think we're a little bit different in that we tackle things from all the creative angle and we kind of bring other technologies in as well, right. So our our kind of.
Focused with Madams is bringing emerging tech and creativity together and really giving like the creators, the brands, the people who really like experimenting and create with this technology platform to yeah, showcase it in a really cool way. And then you might have seen from the pin tweet where we're like a pretty immersive we've got a pretty immersive setup going on. So we like to go pretty all in on on creativity like I said, but really show that in a really cool way as well.
So yeah, really excited for this year's event, really excited that you guys are joining as well. I think it's a good turn out. From the Rugrats crowd, from Not mistaken. Hmm. We got a whole lot of people coming up. I mean, I'm coming out there. We got thread guy coming out there. We got Hannah coming out, Lossy coming out there we got listen, we we got a whole list of people coming out there for that. There you go. There's my little PFP next to my boy TG.
Ohh, I just found out that Zen Zeneca's name is Rohit. Look at you know look at this. Yeah, I know this guy. I Ohh's mug shot is so that's that one time he got arrested and he was literally like has been using this mugshot has this photo which is insane to me. It's. Horrible, in fact. Didn't know that. Yeah, fun fact. Listen, Yeah. Could line up. We've got a good line up and I think it's a real like it's a it's a nice mix. So you got Jeff Staple and that's that's my dog right
there. Love Jeff. Ohh. I just met Lauren actually at 0. Yeah this week I got asked my CEO right there. Look at him, so cute and hang out but you got to pull out of other people. And I was actually chatting about you guys with some friends of mine when I was in Spain about a week, a week and a half ago. And they were just telling me that like it's a completely
different conference. Like, it's got nothing with like what I'm usually used to. Like, it's not super, like you were saying, like not just NFT, he's not super Type 3 and whatnot. It's just like broader tech, right? So yeah, what are some things that we can expect over there? And like, why? Why should someone in your opinion attend? Because I'm sure some people listening to us are probably gonna break point anyways, right?
So like, you know, I think, I think would be interesting to tell them why they should come over to this conference, you know? Yeah for sure. So like I think for us doing this it, it kind of was born out of the idea that well at least from our experience going to a lot of conferences the the the organisers are kind of lost a little bit why they were doing it.
Like for the people that were meant to be there and I think like the the the the way that conferences were or were being designed or are being designed is quite static. It just tends to be a stage with the room some mites and maybe a couple of screens to show stuff. And I think especially with the topic is exciting like this and especially for us really honing in or creativity, it was like how can we create an environment
that really feels? Like or we can really show off the best version of what we're talking about as well, right. So you know for us this is like a playground of creativity where you know everything from our stage design is super in your face and creative and imposing the most.
But even stuff like yeah, the experience since we've got we've got you know hologram technology and the best world we've got the the, the coolest stuff that's really on the the the kind of cusp of breaking through being shown at this event. So it really feels that you're you're witnessing it happened first hand. So yeah, I think that's.
That's really what sets us apart and I think also the fact that we're bringing in a lot of other voices and a lot of people from different emerging tech industries like AI. The VR scene is really well represented in the AR scene as well across the gaming scene. And I think for us it becomes this real melting pot of, yeah, just a tonne of different opinions, a tonne of different perspectives that together collectively come up with new ideas.
And some of that stuff you see at the event and some stuff, yeah, materialises after the event. And I think that's what really makes us unique and definitely. Yeah, like a nice addition to for something like Break Point. If you're in town, definitely swing by hell. Yeah, no, this is super cool. I can't wait. I know a lot of people are gonna be out there for for both of them. So which is really cool. And what kind of attendance are you expecting?
I know you did it last year. What are you expecting this year? Yeah, last year we had. It was our year. One funny story. We thought we were gonna invite around 200 people and it ended up being 2000. So that was a nice surprise. Absolutely. No. Yeah, it wasn't bad. It was bad for my health, but other than that it wasn't bad. Dude, I don't know how conference organisers do it, bro. Like we can every time we have to do our own event. I'm just like bro, but like. Yeah, you need a good.
Team of people around you. That's the that's the secret source. You gotta get the right people, right people doing the right things. But yeah, we're we're not expecting a tunnel this year. I think for us like 2, two and a half thousand people, it's like a great number. Yeah. Size isn't really the thing for us is creepy as that might come. But yeah, it's it's it's it's an intimate vibe and I think Amsterdam is a great place for him.
Amsterdam sounds very late. I've actually, ironically, I've never been. I cannot wait for that as well. And so we are given 10 tickets away a shot to met arms for organising this partnership with Rugby of course. So if you quote tweet the tweet that I'm sharing on screen right now but it's also pinned at the top of the Twitter space and tell the people why you're excited for Met amps and you could be one of 10 winners and yeah 10 who tickets that
actually pretty expensive. So if you want to go there, I mean a lot of people, a lot of brands especially if you're trying to like build a company in this space. I was personally told as a founder is one of the more the web two side that's actually tending.
So it's a good thing and that's kind of what my my takeaway with Ovi from Zebu we kind of broke it down yesterday was like more than half the people in that room had no idea really who we were and it was a really good thing but it was packed right and so and so you know I think I think it's I think it's a it's good to be to be present for events like that. So, yeah, I mean any any last things you want to share with us here on stage? No, not at all.
I mean, like I said, if anyone's in town anyway for for break point like her soft centres at the end. I'm sure we can give you a nice price in the tickets if you aren't one of the lucky 10 winners. But yeah, excited to to have you guys with us and excited to see what happens. Alright. Thank you very much for coming. Appreciate you and. Seeing Amsterdam. Appreciate it. Ciao Ciao. Alright Mando, I know we went a little over but that was totally worth it for the conversation.
Seriously, you gotta tell your people to listen to the replay of this space if you want to learn something or two about crypto. Cause I was one of those really really valuable ones. I'm sure Sam's was like licking his fingers in the back and saying like content for the YouTube able to to upload. But yeah, great one. Hopefully tomorrow you get out of hibernation, Mando. We'll be working on that and hopefully we'll never need to have a have a have a intervention with that.
I know Ovi had a different tweet this morning, so tomorrow hopefully I have the both of you so I can have you guys. It's like a elder wreck. Guys were saying that their fathers are are indirectly arguing on the timeline you're muted. I think it mutes you automatically. But he posted a. Did he tweet? I didn't even see that. Well, like you don't understand. Like the flip of you like the absolute 180 degree version of your tweet.
Is it though? Even saying I'm bearish and I'm all I'm saying is I'm more bullish on different narratives. But all I'm saying is it starts with you always see people get bearish at the lows and bullish at the highs. So keep that for tomorrow because I'm going to have both of you and we'll talk a little later. Actually, I'm gonna be with over in an hour at the Aspirations. So Miss Appropriate and you both do like what is what I just said bearish. I think you don't get.
They're just fucking with. You No, no it's not. You guys keep keep going for me. What I'm saying is bullish but different time frame and also that I think Bitcoin can massively outperform. I'm gonna keep this so let's keep that for tomorrow. And with that, with that, with that, we'll see you tomorrow morning 10:30 AM Eastern Standard Time 7:30 AM Pacific Standard Time for another episode of Jim Murphy powered by cracking lefty on rock radio. Let's go.