Yo-yo, yo-yo, yo, what up? What up? Good morning. Good morning, G MG. He Wednesday, September 27th. I got it right 2023. Look at that. Another beautiful day to have a beautiful day. I got my Co hosts in the house. Ohh Seth AKA Mr No Wi-Fi. What's up man? How you doing today? No Wi-Fi No. I see no. Yeah, back in London tomorrow. So hell yeah. I hear we're going. I hear we're golfing. Next week? Next week? Yeah. Let's go, let's go, let's go. My other co-host, Mando.
Mando, how you doing this morning? Doing good, man. Doing good in the tropical island of Videira today. So. Bit of a holiday. It's a beautiful day. To have a beautiful day, Madeira, that's great. I have also changed locations. I have also changed location. I'm in London. I'm in London. Looks like we're like running after each other. Like missed, Like it's like we're not like, swapping out spots in there. Neither of us are right.
It's like a weird thing when I'm but but but but it sounds it sounds it sounds like we'll be together starting Monday. So I cannot wait. I cannot wait. You know I fixed my issue. Ovi also texted Meadows You have to take me working out you know all these in like full like Rocky Balboa mode and shit like he's gonna do crazy. So all my workouts in got my workouts in I get my golfing with my boy and and then we're gonna see. I mean listen I I hope I hope your your your father-in-law is
ready for that smoke. You know let me know if he's like way better than us so I don't get sharked on the course. Because you know like the gamble but should be it should be a fun time. But anyways, anyways, anyways I'm gonna go quick here because today on the show, today today we have a stacked stacked stacked our coming up for you. Also can crypto obviously market report as usual gonna get through the market. OK crypto rally while stocks are puking. That's topic number one.
Topic number 2 will go through Biden's foot. Yeah. It's like I see. Yes. You know what forget that. Like Catholic Church. Like we didn't finance like most of the show or something, right. Maybe I shouldn't say that today we have Jesse on anyways. Binance wide and Gesler testifies in front of the House of. I don't know why but we'll talk about this in a minute. Pudgy Penguins. Pudgy Penguins, man. Well, the fibre good in NFT line today actually in general.
I love that. Well maybe we'll talk about this a little bit but pudgy Penguins in 2000 Walmarts fun fact that's like 40% of all Walmarts in America. It's pretty wild. It's like 4000 something stores so crushed it. Of course you've seen after we had a bunch but it I think Ovie has I think Mando everybody's tweeting about this in a positive light which is great.
This is good. This is going to all rallied together especially with this with with this algorithm and put that forth and what's happening Pudgy Penguins then and then Xbox. Xbox. Yeah they may enable crypto we saw that in the in the league. But guess who won't JP Morgan won't back anyways they might miss out on that one. And the last but not least, we will be joined by Jesse Pollack, contributor number 001 of BASE. OK, pretty much the creator of base right?
Where you know we talk about friend tech every single day where yeah that's also built fun stuff. Whoop. We're gonna have a lot of fun stuff to to jam about today on the show. So hang tight. Gave your boys a retweet. Give your boss a follow If you're on YouTube give your boys a subscribe a like a comment and everything else to get algorithms going and then without. And then last but not least, of course this show is powered by
cracking. So go to kraken.com cracking NFT, but go cracking.com/rug radio RUGRADIO to find out more about what they are up twos anyways. Anyways. Anyways, it is where we get this going for topic number one for the market report, but also can crypto rally while the stocks are puking solving random what's happened? What's happened in this market
land? Yeah, it's a bit strange because it seems to be developing as this show goes on, and the answer to that is no. We had an overnight rally in Ethan and Crypto Bitcoin. I think Bitcoin nearly hit. 27, OK. I think I've got about 16301640 area and then kind of in the last hour has like puked about 3 or 4% lower. Don't really see any headlines there other than Gensler right now is testifying. So there may be some headlines around that, but yesterday was a
really weekday macro. So, and this has been building for the last few weeks, the SMPS headed back to its 200 day moving average around 4200. I think doctor down about 7% since the Fed took out its recession talk in July. So it's been a really, really soft period for macro in general and it just intensified. Yesterday stocks were down about 2%. A lot of the major tech stocks like Apple, NVIDIA rule quite a bit lower. So just a really bad sentiment at the time.
Crypto didn't really move. Bitcoin kind of still held about 26 K kind of held around. UM 1590 at the time, and it felt as though today we might see a bit of a rally because stocks have opened slightly higher today. Or at least marginally higher on things like the NASDAQ that they're kind of flat on the Dow and we just haven't been able to hold on to the gains that we had this morning.
So it was a bit of a pump and then seemingly as always become deflated over the last few minutes, probably with what Kenzo has been saying in front of the house. That was a crazy chart if you ask me. Look at this market is unpredictable anymore as a third party here. Like just watching and listen to you guys everyday I'm looking at this. I'm like holy like. I missed that. Ohh yeah. Yeah, that. Yeah, that was the power cut dump right there.
Like it basically happened as I was coming onto the show. I think when I was when I was on my way from the airport, it was like 1620 area, 1625 and then as we came on it just kind of gave up another 2% or so. So whatever the rally was last night has been has basically been eradicated. I mean, it's not, we're not in a bad situation. Crypto still massively outperformed stocks, but the idea that we could rally while stocks were going lower seems like. That has been put to bed.
That move right there. It's funny because you had that that topic going before you saw The Nuke and then he came on the three studios. Like, wait, wait, that's not working out pretty well for us. What's Gary saying? What's Gary saying? What's happening? Does anyone has is there like is one word on it? His comments were pre released, so you actually got the statement yesterday and he yesterday evening and he basically said that we needed more compliance from the crypto
firms. Nothing he hasn't said before, just generic Gary Fudd, let's just put it to that box. Interestingly, 4 of the senators that put forward, and actually I think they're just Congressman actually, but they put forward a motion yesterday basically saying that. Like, Gary got to approve these ETFs and within hours he then delayed the RTF. Those all those representatives there are actually grilling him today.
So I was hoping for a bit more of a grilling today from the people that have been vocal critics of him. But we haven't really seen that. There's been various other like fun pieces overnight, but none of it seemed to stick. So I don't really know what over the last few minutes caused this dump, but maybe it's something that he's saying. I'm haven't really been following notifications on for a bunch of these guys and I haven't seen anything just yet.
So it'll probably come out at some point during the show and and we'll figure it out but I'm not seeing much anything much and I'm assuming same for you Ovie. But because you had your Internet cut and everything but there's just a tweet from 4414 minutes ago but the dump started like 45 ish but it says SEC would have about 8% of staff working in shutdown says Gensler.
SEC has taken feedback into account and rulemakings per Gensler again, but there's nothing else because that Walter Bloomberg is usually like on top of it with all these. But there's. It just feels like it's just liquidity games maybe it's like this feels like there was no news to take it higher and then we've just gone straight back to where we were. Yesterday, which is still a big outperformance, but yeah, it's just. It's interesting because you know that really is the ARC ETF.
That has a earlier final deadline date than all the other ETF. The deadline for that is actually the 10th of January. So was the delay just like a random delay or was the delay because this yesterday was the deadline for them to come up with like an interim deadline for this with the decision? I I'm not sure I know have some headlines in October, right there are. All the all the all the main like Black Rock Fidelity et cetera that all 17 Clover. But they're they're later in the
cycle. The ARK ETF is, you're right, is is by, is by two months ahead. Yeah. So on 11/11 was a third deadline which they've already decided to push and the last deadline is on is on on January. January So they What do they push? They pushed 1111, yeah, they pushed 1111 and they already pushed up with the I shares one, right Mando I think, I think was one of them. No, they have no issues with that. One, yeah, they haven't published it yet. It was strange.
People don't know why they pushed that one first because obviously there are other deadlines ahead of that and like Kathy and a number of other people have been saying, they expect several of them to be approved at the same time. So either they're screwing ARC here and allowing all the others to get approval, or they it may be a strange scenario where. Black Rock inside. Job, yeah, maybe.
Who knows like part of this is related to the government shutdown as you just said as I said if that goes ahead and. There was a a deal, I think put forward by McCarthy yesterday, which makes it more likely that they may be able to strike a deal before the end of the week. But if there is a government shutdown that's really gonna affect the SEC. They're gonna have staff working. So 92% of the staff, but there there were 10.
People, let's be honest, if you were in office and there's only 8% of people there, no, nothing's getting done. Literally nothing is getting done. And that's 4200 employees, bro. What's 88% of of 4200? 4200 * 100 like from that. What is this is this is a lot, you know. It's not a lot of employees left, but still quite a bit. Enough to fight crypto? There's no way. There's no way anything gets
done for a while. I don't know how long government shutdown would last, but it would probably delay all those decisions as well, just from an admin perspective. But yeah, if the answer to the question can crypto rally while stocks puke, it doesn't look like they can, but it does look like they can outperform for now. OK, well that's good. That's good enough.
Yeah, good point. On the ETF side, Ohh, because I I thought yes it was some two of them were already delayed and I thought maybe they're going ahead and delaying ahead of the government shutdown cause like September, October is around the corner, like it's this October is Sunday right or Saturday forgot which day. But Sunday.
Yeah, Sunday, right? So I figured maybe, like, he's like, hey, let me front run these crypto Bros and, like, ruin their October. But whether they know October has that prefix for a reason, Gary. Anyways, with that being said, with with that being said, a topic number two of the day, yes. Speaking of Gary Gaz, I mean he's testifying. I don't think we have much to say on that front yet, but there is more Binance FUD going around Mando as the CEO of Binance Fund
reports. Milo, why did you tell me? I just feel like you're so good at the Binance stuff. Like you're honestly just like an expert in Binance. Remember when like used to be my go to medic guy for a moment and even like down three months later I ask you about Matic and like, why are you sending me about Matic? I feel like I'm just gonna be asking you about Binance for next years. So by the way, I saw some stuff, but Russia, blah, blah, blah. So tell us, give us a TLDR here.
This this was just a new article by the Wall Street Journal, who generally are pretty close and and seem to have good sources at various different places, but basically saying that the Department of Justice is yet to finish its investigation into violence. There have been some talks that had already happened, but that it is highly likely that the end of this will be fines for CZ and for Binance, and most probably some sort of criminal charges for both of them.
Um, so. It's kind of a preemptive thing, this is. Maybe unsurprising. I think many people were expecting maybe fines over criminal charges, or maybe the fines would absolve them from some of their criminal charges. So let's wait to see. But. And CD came out and basically did a four tweet. And yeah, like a bit of like war words between him and the Wall Street Journal there for a little bit. But yeah, I think you have to
expect that that's coming. Like you have to expect there's gonna be some form of charges against CZ coming very shortly, would expect in the next weeks or months. Maybe that's why this is selling off right now. Maybe we're gonna get it today. But I yeah, right Before shuts down. Right. Let's go give it. I rather it's all come at once. You know when it rains it pours. I'm used to this in life. So if you could just just, you know pour it out right.
Just like I did with the milk. You know, like just like just one one go and that way we can see what's going on. Look that that WSJ headline is not great like I we don't like to hear it. Right. And they said like every situation door is do or die, apparently. According to the cofounder. However, the tweet that you LinkedIn your minutes this morning does say that there's nothing new that was revealed,
right? It said the Wall Street Journal article does not contain any new information, nor does it reveal any progression in in DOJ's negotiations with Binance. So that's that's for that. I guess it's just shedding light, more light because it's good to flood it almost. Exactly. It's It's kind of annoying at the moment because you just feel like a lot of this stuff is going on behind closed doors and I'd rather just get it out
there. And we're having to hear about this from a Wall Street Journal article, which seems a bit. Ridiculous. But yeah, I expect we will hopefully hear a resolution on that relatively soon. OK, perfect. Finance basically sold. It's sold disruption operations to itself today. Yeah. So that may be itself, right? Well, it it sold it to some random exchange comments ever heard of. And then Comex seems to have exactly the same UI UX as finance.
It looks exactly the same. They work in the same building, the same address, bro. They work in the same building. So yeah, that's that looks dodgy, but rushes where a lot of the money laundering stuff that people have been. Have had they gotten for his his from undisclosed amount. The Twitter for comics was created in 2023.
Just all sorts of funny things. I saw it this morning and obviously I texted to you guys first because I figured you would you would talk about it today but I just thought it was funny. So it's I guess we'll see we'll see what happens on the Binance front with regards to that. But you know best of luck and and and we'll see where where we go next with that anyways. But on better side in the news right now we're not going to talk about Marquis Bugatti.
We're not going to talk about food or whatever. And as a matter of fact for a rare time in a long time we got some really I like personal opinion And then you guys said what you think some very positive news coming out of the NFT space as Pudgy Penguins CEO Luca Netz announced that the brand Pudgy Penguins debuted its toy collection in 2000 Walmart
stores. Each tour provides access to Pudgy World, a multiplayer digital social experience which could help improve visibility and users of the Pudgy brand. And so in a very well written thread yesterday with videos and whatnot, we got the whole rundown of like what the Pudgy world is. And you know, Brave New World was obviously like the big thing.
Actually, it's funny because in your guests like mine, you talk about a metaverse, A Metaverse. You could argue that if it's not a metaverse, it's kind of a game. Like it feels like they're kind of bringing Club Penguin back with Brave New World, like the that that was the other news, right? Aside from the, from the, from the toys in Walmart. So that was pretty cool. But 2000 Walmarts, I mean, that's significant.
We knew for a fact that he had made multiple trips look to Arkansas, so Arkansas at Walmart is based so something like that, multiple trips there. He posted screenshots of like selfies there already months ago but it looks like in just under a year. I mean looking at scheme, it was with the Collective. They acquired the pudgy Penguin brand for two and a half million dollars and what was like an iconic back and forth tweet between himself and Beanie at
the time. Like Beanie was like I'll give 500 E to to what was his name Cole to buy the pudgies. He came out and there was like 700 and 50th. Remember when 750 ETH was two and a half million by the way. And so and shit I just realised that but anyways and that's when that collective acquired the pudgy Penguins would then you saw the $9 million raise announcement from one KX.
I not sure the the the the the valuation was disclosed but I'm assuming in the 30s between 30 to 50 if I you know if I'm right or wrong, I don't know. And then of course then you saw this massive news. I like to think that this is the first time this year or one of the first times that we saw. I don't consider his marketing hype because all marketing this, what marketing's purpose is, right? Like are we not allowed to like market anymore right in the
space. So I do think he was marketing properly. But I do think that the hype that the marketing created was met and we saw that this is a positive reaction on the market. We saw Cyrus tweeted that there was a lot, a couple of sweeps by a big wallet that was not a farmer and a few other people that started buying up buggies. And the general sentiment, it seems I've got a really good positive general sentiment around NFT's in general. A lot of founders came out. I know you guys tweeted.
I perceived Twitter but also founders other collections came out to to applaud looking at and his and and his team of course on on delivering on on on the news number of new world. So curious about you guys, so actually I'll go with Mando 1st and Ovi. But first question is what do you, what do you think of this news for the NFT space in general? But second question is do you do you believe that the expectations were met?
In the meantime, I am going to bring P Somerset, Chief Officer at at Pudgy Penguins on stage on on Twitter. But Amanda, what are your thoughts here? I mean, I think it's great. I think it's great. I think he teased this before, right? I remember him being at the Walmart offices and I remember seeing that and. But yeah, I think this is, this is big. It's kind of doing it a different way, maybe a bit more of a sustainable way in my opinion than most other NFT projects.
Like when we talk about other NFT projects, it's like this. Right. We think there's going to be some parabolic, UM, IP player where you get air drop stuff. Pages is not doing it that way. They're gonna try and build a consumer products business, mainly around toys but also clothing and then that's going to be a very strong foundation and then the NFTS are gonna be the IP play of that. So in some ways it's less parabolic. So like projects didn't do like a 5X yesterday sometimes.
Also the market. It's part of the market too, but I think it's also because people recognise this is more about building a business than like, right, We're gonna get royalties from this, we're gonna get some coin, AirDrop or something like that. It doesn't lead to the parabolic style increases, but I think this is awesome. I think we're building a really, really, really strong foundation
for the business. I think you can be safely say that Project Penguin is going to be around for a long, long, long long time. With the way they've set up like it's building themselves to be a brand for the future and that's very, very important for a lot of these NFTS companies, which the vast majority are just burning cash and we'll just, I don't know, I think they have a lot of trouble. And yeah, I think there's a good chance that that.
Probably one of the best chances that this IP can become some sort of a a recognised brand, and I think that's kind of what a lot of people sold the dream for, but very, very few went to try and do it. So he's doing what I think a lot of other people said they were gonna do, and he's actually gone out and done it. So I think it's awesome. I didn't really understand the fraud or like why there was even any FOD yesterday, but nothing was like it was like fun.
It was always people sceptical. I think there's people liked, yeah people just trying to poke holes and whatever. But overall percent love like honestly it was a lot of positivity on the timeline even in chats and stuff. I think it was cool. You know what It's actually much more than that. So first of all in the market standpoint pudgies hit five Ethan pre pre thing, they weren't at 5 and so I was so contingent.
So they're up 7% in 24 hours, which is wow, like you have a collection that pumped after announcement and the last time you guys saw that it was crazy and so you love to see that. But part of the announcement, like of course it was a Pudgy toys, which of course like a lot of people are saying about
royalties. Well, if you licence your Pudgy Penguin out for that's being sold at Walmart and know for a fact he's working on a programme because he's talked about this in the Nitro ones like to see how people can licence to them, blah blah, which is really cool. Right. So it's not a third party licencing, the actual project licence things from its own, you know, holders, which I love.
So it's a reshare there. I love the fact that there's a collaboration with multiple projects so you can find like a Kempi panda hoodie, A sappy seals trade. Soon there's A creeps, there's D guards, there's youths, there's a bunch of others that I love. So Lucas like trying to put other people on something he's always talked about. And another thing is the Zika sink link here. It seems like there are tech partner for all the L2 solutions and what they're building now in a tech perspective.
That's ZK sync. And that's not like to just be glossed over in my opinion. It's it says in the tweet here, he says. It's actually in the last one. One of them, he goes, Each toy comes the QR code that unlocks digital traits which can be redeemed in our digital social experience. Pudgy World at pudgyworld.com, now powered by ZK Sync by buyers can digitally collect and connect with friends for nothing more than the purchase of a toy. So there is much more than meets the eye here.
Like the I feel like the Walmart thing is cool. It's fired by he's going to have huge Christmas that that company set. Now they can tell his toilet is so cute. Like everybody loves them and it seems like they're left right front and centre of every Walmart in America now. But the Zika singling for the tech is big and I think it's pretty awesome. But only I saw you tweet about about all this.
I mean what's your what's your general sentiment and and you think you know is this does this meet your expectation over under like how do you feel about everything. I think, and I just tweeted this now as I was thinking about it again, I think. What pudgy Penguins is on the brink of doing is delivering value to the holders without selling more NFTS. Yep, actually generating real revenue and real cash flow without selling more NFTS, sustainable revenues and cash flow.
And growing their IP and brand without selling more NFTS. So like Luca by the way, who's like only 24 has out already outperformed 95% probably more of most NFT project founders because the thing that he's done that is very smart is he's taken. The existing IP that could only have been built within Web three and applied it to a sustainable and reliable business model and now they're able to generate real revenues with real partners and actually have a real
business. And I think one of the questions that people are asking is. How does this benefit me as a pudgy Penguins holder but look like if Pudgy Penguins as a toy becomes this huge brand, this great big thing pudgy Penguins the original NFT's will have value.
Like imagine if you could have imagine if Disney had released all its characters as NFTS right when it started and you could buy the original Mickey Mouse NFT's or I don't know like the original Aladdin FT whatever it is they would be worth quite a lot. They are they were are worth quite a lot. Think about how much like first edition Harry Potter books go for, right?
So I think that's how you. Need to perceive this like here, he has an opportunity to. Build this great big brand outside of the NFT space, which I think is what you have to do if you want to become a big global brand because let's face it, there's no one left in NFT's and he's done it the right way. He's done it by not dumping on existing NFT holders. And if you compare his movements and what he's done to someone like Doodles, Doodles had the same ambition.
We're gonna, we're gonna be bigger than this we're gonna go mainstream etcetera, etcetera. Well what do they do? They just like dumped they they monetize, they raise money by monetizing their holders and dumping more entities on them and then they increase their supply to like. There's hundreds of thousands. So then the whole thing died and they actually lost. The loyalty of of their holders.
Luca hasn't done that. He they haven't actually sold any NFP since he started and Country Penguins has outperformed. The vast majority of projects and it has one of the strongest followings and and loyalties out there and and they're gonna crush it. And this is like somebody this 2024 year old kid doing this and it's not. I mean he's I don't take anything away from him. He's very, very smart.
But what he's doing is not like rocket science and it's just amazing that no one else has done this. I think so. I think like, personally, I think it's just like pretty incredible. And I think you have to take your hats off and give credit where it's due. And I think they just do it the right way. I absolutely agree with every single thing you say. I'm not going to double down on this because we're we're we're on we're crunching on time.
I wanna go to people real quick. And I see Jesse Pollock in the studio on YouTube. So if you're not on YouTube yet, go to YouTube, look up rock radio. You know how to spell that. I'm not gonna share the link and get destroyed on my algorithm on X, but go and find us on YouTube because I see Jesse in the Stew. I see Jessie. So maybe like second or third best start in Web 3 because he's got his point all up to like I did this morning. But. And I'll bring him about people
real quick. Well, I mean you're chief memes officer, but you Penguins, you one of the faces of the pudgy Penguins. You know it's like you think pudgy Penguins you think of of of PMC. So like what are you what are you what is your quick thoughts on on everything we're saying and did we miss anything out And then you know obviously we'll we'll bring you back. I'm already chatting to Luca to figure a time out for him to come on the show and spend some time with us, but definitely go
to your. Quick Yeah, man. Thanks for having me up. It's one of those things, right? Like where if you're outward focused and you're not, you know, I said a lot yesterday is like our bubble of like web three people is like actually really small. And one of the smart things Luca did was like when he first came in was like. Hey, like we're gonna lift you guys up by showing how great you are to the outward eye and so like that's one thing you do with the toys.
So like we're in Vegas, not Vegas, but us San Diego Comic Con. Like we had lines like 30-40 minutes long, people coming and getting our toys that had no idea where NFT's they knew us from Giffy. They knew us from Instagram. So the fact that, you know, he came in with his marketing knowledge and said, alright, hey, we need to build this thing, not for the small bubble that we're in, but we need to lift that. Level that we're in up by showing how great you guys are
to the outward eye. It's been awesome to see. And so yesterday was really cool too because like normally when I'm like I like to do is like Fight Club by meaning it and I didn't have to do that because everybody else was like everybody else in the space was attacking the club force was
pretty great. Listen this is a a collective one I think I believe for the space and it's important I think for for large forces to step up because it's easy to bash but then you know there's nothing much left of it. So anyways, P I'll let you know when we we all you'll probably know what we managed to get Luke on his interview and I really want to dive deeper into everything that you guys got planned up so thank you for coming up quick.
But last but not least like I say we're gonna dish the JP Morgan and the Xbox gaming topic and want to talk about it tomorrow because that's a banger so gonna spend more time of it. But we are joined by the hardest and to getting crypto. Maybe maybe after Brian Armstrong where it's a Coinbase thing. But Jesse Pollack the contributor number 001 of base, creator of base, though he doesn't have the highest friend tech key. What's going on there? Exclaimed Jesse GM.
Good morning. How are you doing today? Good morning, everyone. Doing great. Can you hear me OK? Absolutely. We can hear you perfectly. I see you on stage with this glorious punk that you got going on on the Twitter space. So we're out here. So one last reminder, If you're on YouTube, yeah, you definitely want to be on because all four of us are on here And. And one space also makes you give it a retweet, but everything's recorded as usual. Yada, yada, yada. So Jesse, I mean, wow.
It's been a minute since we chatted on stage at Vicon. Yeah, that was good. The nation. I think that was the 1st place where Unchained Summer started to enter the public eye. That's exactly where I was going. And so I was on stage with you Vicon, which was great that you know last week just slid in and I was sitting next to him and every time like what the FM I supposed to say next, this guy was struggling.
This guy was shutting it down every time and he was handing me the mic and like and what you're going to say but it was no base yet right? Or not yet. There was nothing that you were just starting to talk punching someone. You dropped the bar and I will start with that and everybody stopped thinking like 400 people and it's pretty wild. But you said it's a builder spring and Unchained summer, and this is where you really dropped that bar and everybody stopped clapping everything you were
saying. And so I kind of want to start with says how has this unchanged summer gone thus far? And are we gonna see this unchanged summer continue and spiral down towards the the, the fall and the winter? Yeah I mean I think it's got I'm curious how do you think it's gone. I mean I think it's done great. I mean we talk about on chain activity on this show almost every morning and we're obviously all we're we're all see we're all on base we're all in front tech.
I think a couple of us at least minted the DK Motion artwork as well and and played around I mean Mendel was like almost about to become CEO of French at this stage him and Brett guy you know and so and so you know we we we I think once in summer so far has been incredible movement. What do you think? Well, how is how is launching Summer been for you so far? Yeah, it's been interesting. I think it's been a long, a medium term friend. Money's moved off exchanges and to self custody.
I think part of that is like long term holders often have them. A lot of that like big bags and like cold stories and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, it's been interesting, like even for Coinbase itself to go from being an exchange to kind of now being. Being a a chain right like it's gonna be I think I saw the other day it makes 202 hundred grand a week or is it like something something very very high and I remember thinking.
People are gonna start now realising that Coinbase isn't just an exchange anymore, it's it's it's gonna be more of an infrastructure play than just than maybe some of the other people in the space. Yeah. Well, I think our feeling is that on chain summer went and the whole on chain movement is going about as well as it could be. When we were kind of working towards the initial launch of base, we didn't really know what
to expect. Like we were kind of bringing all the pieces together, trying to make sure that it landed in a good way. But you never know whether everyone's going to show up to the party like send out. Lot of invites, a lot of people say yes, but then until that moment where everything actually happens, you never know exactly how it will play out. And you know we're now six weeks later, there's more than half a billion dollars on base.
You're seeing it consistently be like #1, #2, #3 in transactions per day. Like that for us is about as good as it possibly could have gone. And I think for us it just feels like you know one more kind of step towards this cascade of on chain adoption that is starting
to come. And the the, the role that we get to play is just making it easier for people to build, making it easier for everyday people to actually use these cool new products that are being built and doing everything we possibly can to get a billion people on chain over the next few years, Well, you definitely, well, a billion. People he's he always comes in with the bars. I told you guys, it's hard to, it's hard to follow Jesse.
How do you get people? On game like how like I know they've been those sort of comments before. I know CZ was always saying 100 million people, how we get 100 million people. You've kind of done a 10X on that. So for me, I think some of the main it's onboarding relation it's. I guess even the tech like yeah. So how are you going to solve that? Like how you gonna? Get. Yeah, I think we basically think about kind of like 3 big infrastructure unlocks.
The 1st is lower cost block space and so that's what we're working on with space, right. It's how do we make it so every transaction costs less than a cent. We're not there yet, but we're down you know 100 X from what ETH costs to the $0.10 range. And with 4844 and and Ding sharding we we see a path to getting to sub 10 for transaction costs. So we think that that's going to be a huge one. The second one is better wallet
experiences. And this is kind of both on the consumer wallet side, you know, and we're seeing, you know, a tonne of incredible wallets continue to mature, whether it's Coinbase wallet or Rainbow or family. I think we've, we've come a long way in the last year. But then also on the embedded wallet side, for instance, like friend tech, people were just able to use friend tech, right.
They didn't have to worry about like setting up a crypto wallet and doing this whole like separate user journey. It was like, no, I want to use this app. It just works. And so I think that that's kind of the the second big thing where there's still more work to do, but will be a big kind of. Enabler for bringing a billion people on chain and then take the third one and this one's a little, you know, earlier in its life cycle is really around
identity. I think that our one of our thesis is that currently because of a lack of on chain identity and the ability to know who people are are just kind of indecency of that infrastructure. A lot of products that people would want to use or could use just aren't possible. You know, think about like a credit card, right? Like in the off chain world. That's the primary way most everyday people interact. With lending and it's just not possible on chain today.
And so we think that kind of getting better identity tools is going to be the third big unlock. And so I'd say those are the three big infrastructure things we're focused on. And then I think one of the things that I really believe is, you know, I feel like all of us are a little bit collectively traumatised by the last decade of crypto where for the most part growth has been flat except for these kind of spikes that have been driven by like
speculative mania. But if you look at like traditional consumer products, right, you look at like TikTok or you look at. Instagram like once those products find product market fit, they grow very quickly, right, TikTok went from no users to billion plus users in a few years. You know Facebook obviously has 3 billion plus folks who are using it.
And so I think that like we haven't really had consumer products with product market fit and crypto, but we are approaching the era of consumer products with product marketing crypto. And once those products start emerging, they're going to just have dramatically different growth curves. Than all of our experience with crypto thus far. And so I think it's gonna kind of catch people by surprise that we're gonna kind of hit this
Inflexion point. We may have already hit this Inflexion point where we'll stop being kind of like flat from a growth perspective and we'll just start growing month over month with these use cases that have product market fit until literally a billion people are on chain. And so, you know, how quickly does that happen? You know, we'll see, but I think it's going to happen faster than people expect. Yeah, I suppose even the other
day, like. I know, Tom coin Telegram coins are big and they're integrating already 800 million users I think. Wow, that's once you get the app right, sometimes you can onboard people very, very quickly. Frontex been an incredible example, actually put a tweet yesterday just being like two years ago, three years ago, all of these sort of ideas people had and they ended up doing them on the wrong chain or they ended up doing it with too high a cost on an L1. It never really worked out.
And just like the first example of if you take a step back, what could you ever use blockchains for? Like where do you need a public Ledger? Things like big social media. Take one of the objects like is a good example or big ownership right systems or big financial systems and you can start to do these sort of things suddenly on L2 like all of those ideas that we've had a few years ago, but
we're restricted now. People can do now know Brian Armstrong had that really good tweet recently, which is like the 10 ideas he wants to see happen. Did you have an idea that French was coming? And I guess the second part of that is what else are you excited about coming maybe to base that you might get the first look on some of this stuff? So did I have an idea that Frantic was coming?
Yeah. You know I I've been a user of Steel Cam which was kind of the first product that raised her in team built maybe like 6-9 months ago and I I love that and it was really cool mechanic and so that was when I first kind of reached out to the team and was like this is awesome like let me know
if I can help in any way. We had a bunch of conversations and and talked about kind of like how we could, you know, support from tech and how we could line that up with this moment where we were going to be bringing base to the world and I think really like. All the credit goes to them. They kind of had the insight, ohh, there's all this energy like let's capture that energy and create a moment.
And so they time the friend tech launch, I think they launched it on the day that base launched and that just kind of like, you know, again all credit to them, they built a really awesome product that I think has kind of captured the attention of crypto. You know, I was at main net and I was at permission less and I feel like all anyone wanted to talk about was Fred tech. Like everyone was like you by my key, You know, like, what's your experience?
How are you using it? And and so yeah, I feel super, super grateful that we're getting to build with those folks and like it's the first of many consumer products that we're gonna see really capture the attention of the world over the next you know, few months, quarters, years. So excited about that in terms of what's coming, you know, I'm not going to leak it off, but there's a lot coming.
You know, I think what we're seeing is that folks like I think again like thanks to Friend Tech and others like base. Pain and you know friend Pat, like people have basically seen ohh wow. Like the technology stack from the infrastructure perspective is finally ready like with you know low cost L2 plus an embedded wallet, you can actually in a really rapid amount of time build really powerful products that everyday
people can actually use. And I think that has kind of unlocked this next wave of excitement, innovation and I feel like we're at the very, very early stages of that where over the next little. While we're gonna see kind of all of these products that people have had kind of percolating in their heads but never really thought were quite ready from an infrastructure perspective, just come to market
very rapidly. And I think that that, you know, some of them are going to succeed, some of them are going to fail, probably like 90% of them will fail because that's how it goes with products and companies. But I think there's a tonne of innovation that comes out of it, and most of it is going to be on these kind of consumer experiences that aren't necessarily speculative, they're not necessarily financial. They're really just about giving people, you know, something cool to do.
It happens to be on chain because that's the best place to build a product that's globally available that leverages these powerful new tools. But it's mostly just like, hey, this is something I want to do because it's fucking awesome. That's really cool, Jesse. Have a quick go on, go on.
There you go. No, no, I was just going to challenge that slightly and just say I remember when some of these stuff was built on other L ones and the chain would go down and there would be like it's not ready, like the change up ready. Most of the laws that we have seen recently have gone down having even base was down for a little bit of a month ago and there's been some fraud about. Sequences, fraud, proofs or feeling quite centralised in similar sort of way.
Like how do you see this all developing? How do you see the infrastructure improving over time to really capture maybe the same level of security that can support these huge apps? Like if we're going to start doing crazy things on L2, we can't really have them going down. So how do you think we're going to be able to get to that stage? Yeah, absolutely.
And yeah, like you said, Based had a little outrage the other day from Retro we actually published that shared all the takeaways and you know, really investing in in continuing to increase the reliability, availability of the system and feel really confident that that we're gonna be able to do that.
I think generally the way I think about this is especially like layer two, these systems are still relatively early, right like you know they're most are stage zero, stage one and kind of the decentralisation road map. But there's really clear kind of execution pathways that get us to stage 2 decentralisation and get us to that like highly available 4 to 5 lines of availability And and that's not really like, hey, there's a bunch of unsolved research challenges that need to get fixed.
It's more like, ohh, we just need to do a bunch of hard work. And we've kindly finally kind of pulled together all of the folks who have the ability to do that hard work because now there's like clarity, oh, this is going to be the path for scaling Ethereum. And so, you know, that's one of the reasons why we decided to build based on this thing called the open stack, which is like an open source technology stack.
Basically with the intent of saying, hey, like we're going to contribute all of Coinbase's security expertise. We're going to contribute all of our scaling expertise from scaling Coinbase for the last decade to this public good that will power base and make sure that base is highly available, highly scaleable, highly decentralised. But also for anyone else who wants to run a chain like they're going to benefit from that too.
And I think kind of having all of us swarm on that, you know, like open shared code base is actually going to be really, really powerful for increasing the availability, reliability, security and decentralisation of all of these different systems. So I I think that like we're gonna see that happen pretty quickly over the next few months and in in quarters. I do think that there will be, you know issues, right.
And one thing that I, I think is you know like kind of an an analogy is like in the early Internet days there were also a lot of issues, right. You know Twitter was like the whole meme of Twitter was fail Well, as it was kind of going from you know hundreds of people were using to millions of people and 10s of millions and hundreds of millions and billions or not quite billions. Hundreds of millions of people were using. Yeah like the Twitter fail.
Well, Twitter used to go down for hours and they're like down Page was a whale, and so everyone called. I've seen only a couple of times, but it seems similar in the NFT space. I mean open C was down every time. You meant was out. So if you equipment was down every time, you know, Bitcoin price went to 40,000, right? And so like, look, this is not going to be perfect. You know, these things are gonna
go through growing pains. That's what happens when you go from having, you know, millions of people to 10s of millions to hundreds of millions to billions. But I think we have all the right talent, we have all the right focus and we're going to make them more and more reliable. I love that. I think this is great. It seems as such. Like obviously we've shared conversations before.
You guys are heavily focused on creators and I've obviously seen everything you did with with with the UK motion, big fan of his. I mean we all are, we talked, we covered that in the show as well that we minted that as well, definitely wanted one. So that was pretty cool. She was supported a lot of creators, seems like to be a big
focus when it comes to base. Is that what you guys are mainly focused on at base like focusing infrastructure for creators in the space and then my the follow up on that would be like any plans? Like supporting gaming infrastructure is like a lot of the other L twos that we're seeing. Yeah, yeah, I'd say our focus is consumer products like non financial consumer products and of course there will be the financial stuff like USC is going to be there, G5 is going to be there.
But from a pure focus perspective, it's really on consumer products. And so for us that is kind of creators and creatives that's social and then that's gaming. Those are the three big kind of focus areas for us. And so that's why, you know, on Chain Summer, like we didn't talk about finance and perps and derivatives.
Like, no, it was all like, we're gonna show you cool things to do on Chain. And whether it's like Parallel, which is building this incredibly cool trading card game, or Blackbird that's building like fully Unchained restaurant experience, you know, live in like 30 restaurants in New York and growing really quickly. Or, you know, Zora Manifold highlight all these incredible creator platforms, like giving people a cool thing to do on Chain that they're actually excited about.
And they're like, oh, I get this, this is a cool piece of art or this is a cool way to interact with my favourite restaurant or this is a cool game that I want to play. Like I think our thesis is that's gonna be what brings these next millions of people on chain. And so that's really the the type of builder that we want to be supporting and making sure that and on the gaming side there's there's a lot more, a lot more coming. We we we've had a bunch of things launched just in the last
few weeks. One that I love that is, is like super I guess two that I love that are super bottoms up. I already talked about Parallel which is you know like really cool trading card game. I think probably like the best gaming community on chain right now. But two like more smaller ones. There's one called Friend Pet which is kind of like a Tamagotchi with a whole like Unchained experience built around it. It's a progressive web app in the same way as friends back,
Really cool. And then another one which launched just for a little preview and then it's going to relaunch in a in a in a month I think. It's called words three, I think. Is what it's called and it's like really cool derivative of Scrabble where you kind of like earn money or pay for each character that you place and then if people play on your characters you earn back that money. And it was a whole kind of like 7 day competition.
A lot of gruelling battles between people trying to win it out and and they're coming back in a couple of months for the full. Yeah, I'm seeing. I'm seeing that here on your on your on your Twitter. Ohh, that's actually a different words game. Yeah, there's a lot of word games. Sorry. Yeah. That's words that art, which is epic. The other one is words three, which you know it by letters to spell words and score points. So there's yeah, there's a lot
of a lot of cool stuff coming. There's a lot of cool largest is coming too. Like Patrick who's epic. Patrick Rivera. They've been building some really cool stuff launching under this brand called the world's largest and they're gonna be dropping I think next week or the week after and you just you just pat scrolled past Ferrand which is like a purely pet creator on tree now which I love my tweet on that as like basis for everyone including
pets. You know like we again we just want to be supporting people to have fun and you know there's all sorts of ways people have fun including just like literally watching pet videos and creating pet videos. So we want that on base too. That's great, man. This is awesome. It looks like there's a lot of stuff. I love the whole, like, I forgot the word that you use that how it's like an in app. It's an app. It's a progressive Web app. Progressive Web app I I'm such a huge fan of that.
I kind of like hack that and you know kind of created the the the the social web app. I want to toss it back to my co-host here. But I have a quick question because we're talking about friendship earlier and I kind of wanted to chime in here. Jesse Pollack is very important questions. Do you 33? I do, I do I yeah. I mean, I just buy everyone's keys on French who I can. I put some money in French. I put one ETH into French tech on like day one.
And I just have like, you know, made trading fees and put them back into everyone. And so I'm here. I'm here, I'm here to support the holders on French tech. Yeah, no, I've loved, I've loved, I've loved playing around with friend tech using it. I'm like a probably a daily active user at this point. And I think the thing that's kind of most impressed me about frantic is just how quickly the team is iterating on the product.
Like I just opened it yesterday. I was like, oh, now I get like red notifications for all of my messages and I can see how many people read them. It's like they're they're just like the, you know, the product was almost unusable on day one, and day one was like a month ago, and now it's like it has every social feature you want. And so I I'm, I've been really impressed with the the pace of that team's. Execution. We we were. We were on day one. This is done.
Yeah. I can see Jesse's OK you're active. Active. OK, Jesse's acting like we're not leaking at chats here, but once you get the. Let's say I got the key. I think. I think it was .422. How poetic. But. It's. This is, this is great that you do. You do talk a lot on that, which is awesome. And make sure I don't buy a fake one because I'm so good at buying fake fake. He's here. But Mando, back to you if you had. Yeah, do that. Have you got have you got. Well, I gotta.
I gotta do my 3 three right now. So there we go. I'm now I'm now for. OK, Holder. That's where you live real time. I mean no, I think like it is pretty remarkable though like you just open up your app and you like kind of join my room and then in the next second I opened up my app and join you. And like that wasn't this complex crazy thing that like you know took a bunch of I didn't this transactions, you just did it on the show. I just did it on the show right back.
And so I think that in and of itself is just indicative of kind of like where we are getting to as an industry and as a product stack. It's like this, this stuff just getting easy, like it's just working. It's it's finally usable in a way that, you know, maybe not every everyday person can use, but more and more people can use. Yeah, this this is great so. I saw your tweet the other day, which was the tweet kind of in response I think to the ethod that's kind of been circulating
for the last few days. Like it's got inflationary, like JP Morgan. Yeah, that negative piece being like all transactions are down and actually just like complete miss. Ohh. Well I believe that completely painting the wrong picture of what is actually going on, which is all these which is everything is just moved deltos and if you start counting that.
Transact, I think I saw the other day some like four times the number of transactions is now taking place on L2 and L ones on a week on like 5 * 6 times. So it's it's crazy how fast it's growing. I mean, I was in, I was in a meeting with kind of the Coinbase executive team yesterday and we were talking about just the L2 beat growth and it's like find another graph in crypto that looks like the L2 transaction growth chart.
Like, I mean this is like every venture capitalist's dream, like the most perfect up and to the right, that's like curving, curving, curving, getting steeper. And so I think for us it's like it's happening and we just want to put like more fuel on the fire. That's that's my my second question there is, I think people do find the L2 infrastructure like landscape a bit more complicated. I mean they find down the L1 was
complicated. I think the L2 was or maybe even more nuanced like why did you end up going with the op stack, How do you see these L2 wars developing? Do you think everyone is an optimistic rollup versus like a ZK for example? And are you thinking about doing a different way? I don't like 5 different ways to try and scale. Like are you gonna be just you? You're an optimistic. Pull up Coinbase team now or are you going to think about how we think about it slightly
differently? And 1st off, it's not like I don't think about this as wars, right? I think one of the things that's really interesting and different about the L2 thing versus the L1 thing is like an L1. It was like these are totally different environments. Like you're you're talking about like East and you know Solana and Polka Dot and they're all like islands basically. But the L2 and it's like we're all connected via Etherium. And so, yeah, there's competitive dynamics in there.
And like, yeah, we have to figure out, yeah, people are using different technology stacks. Like at the end of the day, we're all aligned to Etherium.
We're all using EDM. And so, like it, it doesn't feel like a war to me. It more feels like, OK, we're all kind of working together to figure out how we're going to scale Ethereum. And then inside of that, like overall arching goal, overarching goal we have like, OK, who's going to scale Ethereum the most, which is like, you know, like, sure, like I want to scale Ethereum the most. And other people want to scale theorem the most. But like at the end of the day,
it's all still scaling. I'm very, I think that yeah, like you know it's hard not to be at this point. So I think that that's the starting point for me. In terms of why we we built on the OP stack, a bunch of reasons. You know we we spend basically a year trying to figure out what our strategy should be here. And after kind of working with and talking to pretty much every team and going deep, I think we ended up saying hey like the OP stack makes a tonne of sense for us.
That was kind of a technology decision. You know feel like it's a really powerful technology platform. It was a kind of a commitment to public goods and open source like we love the way it was built with an MIT licence. That felt really important to us and we want to contribute back to that. It was also kind of a bet on decentralisation and particularly on optimism's ability to be kind of a counterweight to coin base like you think about Coinbase it's like where the scaled public
company that centralised. On the other end of the spectrum, optimism is like decentralised on chain governance kind of pushing the boundaries of what's possible there and but like that pairing would work really, really well and they took the last thing is we just had gotten to know the optimism team really well and we'd actually started working with them at the very beginning of 2022 on EIP 4844 which is this upgrade to Ethereum that's gonna lower fees on layer twos
like base by another 5X probably.
And so kind of that working relationship I think also kind of gave us confidence that this is going to be a good partnership in terms of kind of the optimistic versus ZK thing, you know the way we think about base and the way we think about the open stack is it's not an optimistic rollup, it's a roll up and it's going to have an optimistic prover for it which can secure it. But we're also investing in ZK proving stack for it. And so we actually just did kind
of a request for proposals to build this OK prover for the OP stack that went out a couple of months ago. We got a bunch of great proposals. I'm actually just trying to find this, let's see OP zero knowledge proof. We got a bunch of proposals and gave out two kind of rewards for the grants, one to a company called Risk Zero and one, two O1 Labs who built Meena.
And both of them have now built like pretty solid prototypes of ZK provers for the OP stack with a kind of line of sight to productizing that in you know the middle of next year at a totally reasonable price point that would work. And so for us like we think about this technology stack as a roll up stack and the proving technology is kind of whatever
the best thing that's available. And so that's going to start with optimistic prover, but we're going to transition it as soon as that technology matures to the point where we're comfortable. I wanted to ask one more thing which you just said there, which was? Optimism might balance Coinbase 3 months ago or four months ago. There was never going to be a token for BASE. It seemed as though recently there were some saying we
haven't ruled it out. And most of these other tokens, optimism and they're all dials and all like trying to go down this centralised route. If you guys were to do a token like, how would it maybe be different or how would you even look at something like that? Yeah. And I think that's a big if I you're referring to the comments that kind of Paul. Archibald, I have, Paul said on Zedd. All it up. He brought it up. Ohh, Max is here.
I have his notifications on. We would always tweets we quote him at least two times a week. So we're we, we we like the men we love Paul, you know, I think that that was him just being like classically lawyerly, like lawyers never want to confirm or deny or you know say anything. They just want to be totally neutral. You know there there are no plans for based Habit Token. We've been really consistent about that from the beginning and it's not not in the cards.
And so no, no new news on that. No changes. Alright, shut it down. Man, you've disappointed so many people now. Ohh my heart. Just doing my my friend tech chats going crazy, my my keys going to 0. But anyways, I know we're tight on time with you, but I do wanna kick it to OV if you ask a question for you or a couple of questions for you real quick Jesse. And then obviously we'll let you because I'm sure you're very, very, very busy.
Have one final question. Yeah, which is a question I like to ask all, I guess. What type of music do you like listening to when you work? Ohh man, that's a good question. I, you know, I like, really need melody in the music I listened to. So it's a lot of like, you know, R&B, like you know R&B pop some electronic music in there, but like you know, strong melodic vocals, some beat bass. You know what have I been listening to recently?
Another thing that about me that that is an interesting fun fact about Jesse is I am like cannot remember the names of artists or songs or lyrics. My experience of music is basically entirely like like a physical like sensory experience where I just listen to music. I listen to it all the time when I'm working. If I'm writing, it doesn't distract me at all. I and I just don't remember any of it. I just like experience it background playing. So yeah.
But like, no, my recently listened to like SG Lewis. I love, like incredible artists, like very like, you know, 5B electronic vocals. What else is in there? Dominic Fike. The Dominic, one song that's been on repeat for me is this song called Mona Lisa by Dominic Fike, which was in the new Spiderman movie. And it is is like such a banger. I think I probably listened to it like 300 times in the last month. Yeah, so that's that's me. That's extensive answer. I like that. I love music.
Music is like my favourite thing in the world, but it's always, I always feel a little guilty because I say that and then people like what's your favourite song recently? I'm like it depends on. The if, if you play, tell you it depends on the vibe, right? It's always like that, Alright. Well, aside from from from destroying, shattering our dreams and then talking to us about your entire music stack, I think this was not staying with you. But Jesse, that was that was great.
I know you're tight on time, so I don't wanna, I don't wanna hold you much longer, but really grateful that you accepted to do an interview with us. Thanks for having me on, you guys came on from the chat. Are you gonna be at the people punk thing in Charleston? Or where can we catch you again like a live event? I'm I'm not going to be at the people punk thing. Although there will be some other people from kind of the. Case and and and Coinbase Orbit
there I will. I've been like totally on the road doing a bunch of events recently and so for the next little while I'm not going to be doing, but I think likely TBD but likely to be at Dev Connect and likely to be at Art Basel in some form. And those are probably the two touch points in in the next, you know, a few months. Alright, perfect. Well, that's cool. Thanks for having me on. Y'all. This is awesome. Such a huge fan. Honoured to be here. I appreciate that.
Thanks. Have a great day. Ciao bye Ohh there boys. That was a good interview. That was fun. You know, I I love the music taste, Ovie. I think that was the longest answer we got with regards to someone's music like discography. Should I say man? Though I have to say man kind of kind of killed my my hopes and dreams And here, here and there. You know I did get a three, three live on stage. I didn't even plan that, but that's down. That's well, who knows? Who knows? Who knows?
We're such DJ and it's like, yeah, he's just saying it to say like this guy who invented base, right? Just came on the show and told it's not going to be a token, right. And like, every news outlet is probably gonna pick up on that tomorrow and we're here. You know what though? He's probably trolling. Yeah. That's what we'll say, you know, That's what the Discord group would say, you know. Oh yeah. He didn't really mean it.
We need to study his like his facial interaction while he was saying that because I think he was like just playing with us right. Like he I think I think it was fine anyway. So that was fun. I I really appreciate him coming on because he's hard to get get a get around of. I think it's fired. I got this whole thing I saw basis for posted that the show. So hopefully a lot of people can catch the last three minutes of the show. That was great boys.
A lot of fun. A lot of fun and with that I guess that's wrapped up. Another great episode of Jim Web Three powered by Kraken and FTX are cracking.com/rug radio RUGRADIO. To check it out, not so much thought about the interview and let us know. Also if you're in the audience like who you'd like to hear
next. You know, we we like to get some fire guests on. I like to think that we managed to pull quite some heavyweights and so definitely want to keep this 30 minute, you know, interview cooking like that for a minute. So that was great. And with that, with that, with that, I will see you all tomorrow morning, 10:30, we have Eastern Standard Time, 7:30 PM Pacific Standard Time for another episode of Jim Web 3 on rock radio. Let's go.