Yo-yo, yo-yo, yo, what up, What up? Good morning, Good morning GMG, Friday, Friday the February 9th, 2020. 4. Look at that. Another beautiful day. What is on me? Another beautiful day. To have a beautiful day. Sorry we're late. Y'all, but we are here and that is all that matters. I got my Co host Mando in the house. Mando, the man of the hour. Our superhero. Good morning. How you doing today? Oh no, I can't hear you. I can't hear you. You can't give us any shit now.
No way, bro. No way. You know what I'm going to do? I'm just going to. I think. I think Sam's what Mando does. Let's just bring Yat up. Let's talk with with Yat because he's like that that Mister Metaverse is the busiest person in all crypto. So we're going to bring him on while we have him. Yat. Good morning. GM, GM, Can you actually hear me? Yes, yes, Like the voice of God coming from the sky right now. We've been doing 15 minutes. OK, great. Wonderful.
It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, good morning. Let me, let me hold on. We usually start you know I chat with man and everything that's not working we have you right now. Does that one of the the only the only you know. Plague. Plague. Sorry. The only area moment in time today that we could get you on. Let me get open. Campus on on on. Here. Let me, let me send him a code. Stand by and everything. Mando. I still can't hear you.
So I guess you transferred your powers of being able to be heard to Yatsu this morning. So we appreciate you for doing so as we only had Yats for half an hour yet. Wow. How's everything? It it I saw you in Davos. Well, actually Mando as well he was hey little cats here. It was really cool at the Casper Labs house on the promenade on the main promenade. How how you been since how's everything going on on you guys's end at Adamoca? That's.
Great. I mean, you know, I think, I think almost everyone in our industry would have been in a much better mood as of the last two months, shall we just say. And especially today, it's pretty, pretty amazing in terms of to see where where Bitcoin is in the entire market overall. And it's been driving a lot of activity in the area of gaming
in particular. One of our other projects have been supporting called Pixels, just recently was had a Launchpad launch pool announcement and finance for instance. So you know lots of activity in this space. Gaming is on fire generally in the Web 3 space and just general adoption and conversation is good. So I think 2024 is going to be the year of adoption, right, in the sense that 23 might have been the year of consolidation and cleanup. I think 24 is the year of growth.
And by the way, Happy Chinese Year. It's a year of the Wood Dragon. And the Wood dragon, everyone.
Right. And the Wood Dragon's symbolism is prosperity, growth, audacity, and everything else that I think we're hoping for in 2024. I I love that that's some that's some really good stuff and and and and of course like happy Chinese this is this is a big moment you know we talk about the year the dragon a lot on the timeline that dragon by the way well how do you say dragon in in in in in Mandarin is long right. So you know does that does that mean something Maybe I am
actually yes. I did some research because I was going to go tomorrow for breakfast in this local place in Montreal in the Chinese Chinese quarter for for like the traditional breakfast. And and I found out that I'm actually born the year of the the wood dog. And so as someone when you're the wood dog, I have to bow down to the wood dragon and let him cook because if I don't I may give all my money away and he's going to take it away from me.
So I need to let him cook in in in the web three terms that's what I was that's the research I what I was told. So yeah, look it's a pleasure to have you this morning. It's so much fun you're here and and and I love that the the update especially on the gaming side, we're super bullish on web through gaming on this show. We've been talking about it for a minute and I mean we cover it every other day, there's news coming out so and so it's really cool and Gigi on the side of the
Crypt is just like added a lot. So it's really cool to see. So the other thing though that's that you're bullish on Adamoca which is something you came to talk about which again something that we're commonly bullish on with you is education in Web 3. So let's I kind of want to dive right into it and like ask you straight up like you guys see Adamoca is is is wide, it's very
large company. You guys are invested across the entire crypto space in multiple, you know, companies here, but why is Animoca specifically so into web through education, right, that we have the open Campus account on the stage as
we speak to? Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, when you think about our space being gaming, actually gaming and education kind of go hand in hand because actually whatever you do, what I mean in terms of, you know, we learn through play and these these days, you know, we learn mostly through digital play. If you think about our kids playing on Roblox or you know, playing Minecraft, you know, you
know, social interactions. And so to us it's a very natural fit to basically include education in the whole area. Also, I personally have been involved in education. I helped visitors. I'm on the board of several schools, helped sort of found some of the some some sort of educational centers and schools in the region as well. I always felt that education was really, really important for society, broadly speaking. And also the other thing is, is that education is something that we all do.
I mean, we might say, for instance, that, oh, YouTube is entertainment, but actually YouTube is the largest education platform in the world, for instance, where people go and sort of go and, you know, to learn how to play the guitar, Rhythm Facts, podcast or vlog, actually, those are all kind of forms of education. So we're actually doing that every, every single day. And you know, education, you know, we talk about gaming being big.
It is big, of course, right? You know, it's like, you know, over 3 billion gamers. It's the $200 billion industry today and growing, especially when you add in the Web 3 mix. But education, everyone does it and it's a $5 trillion base, right. And and the other thing I would also add is that, you know, we also looked at it from the lens of how do we get mass adoption in terms of I guess, political
adoption as well. And here's the thing, You know, gaming is great and financial sort of, you know, literacy and sort of financial growth is all great. But unfortunately, these aren't very popular political narratives. But no, politicians don't get elected because they provide better services for gamers, at least not yet, maybe in a decade or so, right.
And also, yeah, when it comes to sort of the Wall Street effects and that that crypto has enabled, web fear has enabled, unfortunately that's not necessarily very popular amongst a certain group of people. However, if we can make teachers more money or actually if you think about it, some of the largest, really probably the single largest creative group in the world, then that becomes a powerful political bloc, a very
strong voice. And actually, you know, if you can basically educate our teachers about Web 3, then guess what they're going to educate next, the next generations and the people thereafter. So as a centre, I think focusing our attention on education, I think is I think really important for broader Web 3 adoption.
It's also important for the narrative, and I see it very similarly to how, you know, when we looked at gaming, most people forget that we got into sort of evangelizing and Web 3 gaming in late 20/17/2018. It was a long time ago and similarly back then a lot of people didn't see it. And of course, today everyone's talking about it. And we kind of think education is the same because in some ways it's everywhere, but nowhere, right? It's kind of like, you know, because we do it every day.
We somehow forget that actually, you know, just ask your parents how much they spend on education on you, right. And if you don't have children yet, you might not actually fully appreciate just how much you spend on that. So it's a generational thing. And eventually everyone here in crypto land is going to go maybe have their first kid and then they, oh, you know, I want to send to a school and hire a tutor and oh damn, how much money did you spend? Give me. Exactly.
Exactly. Starting to get stressed out about that? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And and The thing is, I think the other thing is, and this is what's so great about Wave 3, is you want to actually reward the very people who are giving the most direct value to whoever it is. And so in the same way that we can give artists direct value, we can now give teachers direct value for the services they create for our students, as an example.
And then today, again, facing the same problems in the Web 2 platforms, they're being disintermediated. Teachers are, you know, like in the US, Frances are amongst one of the lowest paid sort of people, given the fact that the role that they're doing is perhaps one of the most important. I mean, they probably spend many of our kids spend more time with teachers in school in a week than probably even with their families, right. If you think about sort of working families and all that
kind of stuff. And yet we pay them way, way less. So there's something wrong with this system and I think Web Three can solve that. And so that's one of the reasons we're so focused on on education with open campus and with tiny Tab. So I love what you're saying here because it it's. I love that because I've been saying like when we founded Rock Radio originally was always on the premise of like education and entertainment, of course. So it's a mix of both, like you
get on this show for example. And I always said that like creators are kind of the educators of our industry right now. Like they're in charge of like either entertain you or some of them will educate you. Or like for example Mando and Ovido in the morning with the market reports and stuff like that and different topics that we try to cover. Those are people that let pay the least. Like just recently in Quebec
where I'm from. Yeah, there was a huge strike and the schools were closed because teachers, we're rightfully demanding some help, right. And and it's always, it's feels like it's always less people that we think about in society. Yet you know they're the people thinking of our kids. I mean Mando just had a child year and something go OV you know he's about about about to happen in 2024. You know wife is pregnant.
OK, baby. Full market baby that he's going to Yo, your baby's going to be born the Year of the Dragon. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Cool. You're you know but but yeah I want to, I want to kick it back to you now it's like So what where does blockchain technology fit here? Like you said you have tiny tap you have open campus. I'm very familiar with both brands and companies and it's really some very it's some great companies you guys have, have, have have funded here but like
what? What does where does blockchain technology come into play here? How does it help? So, yeah, exactly. So let me just give you one example. There's multiple, but let me give you one example that I think is easiest to illustrate. You know, one of the powerful things about Web Three is the fact that we have property rights as in this case digital property rights, which means that we can now allow for
capital and value formation. So normally when you have an intellectual property that could be created by anyone including a teacher, it needs a certain kind of value before you can actually turn it into a sort of a product that you can then basically license and sell out. Because you know if it only
makes $100 a year or something. That's not worth sort of having a legal construct and all the settings around that to basically sort of sell it on for some kind of capital value because the cost of the lawyer and the legal construct and and and the systems around it are just too expensive. But when you encapsulate that into an NFT, you're actually able to have the legal provenance, the intellectual property rights, where the money goes in a single transaction
that costs less than a dollar. Which means that we can now allow capital formation to be created on intellectual property assets that could make as little as just a few dollars a year even if that's what we wanted. So imagine the scenario for instance, teachers in Venezuela make between 10 to $15.00 a
month, which is not a lot. And if they make content on tiny tap, which then becomes content in which they could earn a royalty on because of the fact that people are subscribing to it. That's what Tiny Tap does. The tiny tap is kind of like a Netflix for educational content, which by the way serves about 200,000 teachers today and roughly 8 to 9,000,008 to 9 million families.
And So what happens here is, is that when a teacher makes content on tiny tap on the creator tool, they then basically make revenue because a parent or another teacher uses it and pays a small subscription for it, right, Kind of Netflix style. Which means that the content then becomes basically a layer which basically makes money by buying the NFT from any third party.
The royalty 80% of that up to 80% can now go to the new buyer and which means basically that the teachers just created his own intellectual property stream kind of like, you know, you're a musician and you're basically now able to sort of you know, sell your royalty zone to someone else as a single product. So that means capital formation
is possible. So if I if this all content makes $100 a year, he might sell it for 500 or $1000, which means that whoever's buying it might make, you know, somewhere between 10 or 20% yield, which is not bad. The teacher makes more money and reinvests it into more content. The owner can actually market the product and actually make more revenue because now he has, he or she has this product that maybe they could sort of even promote further.
So for instance, we had a Japanese entrepreneur who bought, you know, in some of the early auctions, bought a lot of this educational content earlier on and, you know, pay 10s of thousands of dollars of it for it, and then basically started selling this education content to Japan, helping localize it and basically created a bigger market.
And so something that was making maybe 10 or $20,000 a year now makes double or triple that because she ended up doing some entrepreneurial activities with it, which then also showed us something else. Teachers can make great content, but it's not paired with people who know how to do business. But if a business person comes in and says, wait, I can take this content, I can make it even more famous or I can make more revenue from it, then we both basically can, can benefit from
this. So in a way it's also tied in the people who know about money and entrepreneurial and sort of enterprises with the content creators, in this case teachers who don't know much about it at all, which is something that's never happened before, right? Teachers were always isolated doing that particular task. They don't necessarily know how to run a business because they never had a product that was worthwhile selling. And basically NFTS can help
solve that. And so that's kind of how we think of this as kind of revolutionizing publishing. And so we call these the Publisher NFTS, which is basically a kind of sort of innovation around the NFT space that allows teachers and creators to basically have intellectual property rights and revenue streams that come from, you know, ownership of these NFTS. Wow, this is sick. Like, you know, the meme, like blockchain fixes this. It's like this is happening.
Like it's not a meme. It's like it's actually fixing. Like there's an opportunity for it to fix the educational system. Mando, I saw you on mute here. Did you did you have something or you wanted me to? No, I I see how this ties in. There's a lot of headlines even a couple of days ago, right, which was a quote which you were saying, which is like NFTS are the building blocks of capitalism or digital capitalism and that kind of did the round.
I think every major news outlook picked up on it. I can kind of see exactly how this fits in to to that. It's definitely not a realm which I think a lot of people have looked at from like a capitalism standpoint. But then again, teachers aren't making that much money. So maybe this is an important way to to go down there. Is there anything else like when you take a step back, you're like, wow, this could also be revolutionized with this, with this sort of concept? Well, I mean everything.
If he's taken away from the concept of teachers, what NFTS allow you to do is they encapsulate your intellectual property rights and that means basically everything essentially can have the benefit of this capital formation. Which is why we think NFTS are pillars of digital capitalism in this case, right? Because property rights are the basis of a capitalist system today. The fact I can own my house or own my car is the reason why I
can have value formation. It's the reason why we can have assets and which is the reason why, frankly economies flow, right. If you don't have property rights we can't have capitalism. And in the digital space, pre Web three, we actually didn't have any property rights because everything was owned by a platform where basically we're just rent tears. We don't have the right to actually do anything with this stuff because it's not really
ours. I mean even if we have a million followers on Instagram, they don't really belong to us. We can't take them away to where we want to because they don't belong to us. And so this is basically what we're through really fixes. And of course the other thing that happens is that when you have capital information, you're actually creating significant value.
That was kind of already there, but now it's something that's distributed amongst the sort of the the general population, which is again something that we've seen in history right when we moved from feudalism to basically democratic capitalist societies. Actually what happened was it wasn't that it was taking money away from essentially you know,
the kings of of their time. It actually created more wealth overall and more activity because people were able to build new network effects on top of it. So we see this kind of in the NFT space as well. You know, if you want to board a someone else can make a game on it, someone else can target you because you own that ape. Someone creates sort of new skins and costumes and they can even have the right to basically do a burger joint or you know,
sell alcohol or create water. They can basically build all these businesses because they own the rights around that particular ape as an example. That's actually what property rights enable you to do. And when you forecast a little bit into the future, it used to be that we used to think that, you know, sort of our property was a form of our labour, you know, in the classic Lockhean sense. But today, our labor is no longer that physical.
I mean, some people do physical labor, but frankly, you know, when you look at the future, machines and robots will do all that kind of work. So what is the labor that is valuable to us as humans? It's what's in our head, It's in our mind. It's in our creativity. And so teachers are creating creative content to educate our kids every day. Artists are doing this every day. Game developers are going to do this every day. The future of work is going to be very much the work of the mind.
And so we need to find a way in which we can own that. And this is basically why we need a digital context for it, because it's not scalable for us to sign legal contracts for every time we think of an idea. But NFTS can do this at scale immediately. It's true that it's. Going to be the work of the mind as a banger. Go on, Mando. Sorry. Yeah, I agree with that. Sense of that I do think for a while people have said you know it's it's the building blocks of
of ownership. You kind of need for it to be fully the building blocks of like ownership. You do like courts and you need everything to kind of catch up with it like how how do you see that happening? Like I I haven't looked. I know tiny cap is based in Israel, right. So like how how do you look at stuff like courts in the different jurisdictions in Syrian How do you, how do you think about stuff like that?
Yeah. I mean, we we always have to obviously collaborate and work with governments because at the end of the day, we still live in a physical context. You know, as much as we like to be virtual, at the end of the day we still have to eat and sleep and pay taxes somewhere. But the the base idea still is, you know, you first need to prove ownership before you can even talk about it.
And so this is the point about web two is let's say I use AI, don't know a platform like YouTube, and I make content. If YouTube deletes it, how do I prove that I actually owned it?
The only company that can tell me whether I really owned it was YouTube. And if they feel like saying I'm not sure where that is anymore, which has happened many times, then your content is lost and you know you don't have any way of proving anything because actually a third party has become the arbiter of your so-called property. But then in terms of not services, you don't have that
property anyway. In blockchain you actually have the ability to prove that, you know, the moment it was minted and created. And so this is another thing because it's immutable on the blockchain and that basically becomes the almost the governmental Ledger as you are,
right? It's it's a, it's a record keeping to prove it, which is the net first step that you need in order to then say, OK, I own this Providence now I can actually go to court if I have to defend and protect it, which is basically, for instance, if someone steals your Bitcoin, you know, 5-6 years ago people were like, what's this?
But now you can go to the police and you can file a claim and say my Bitcoin was stolen because they, they've accepted that there's a way to actually really prove that that was your Bitcoin. And therefore we can basically put a claim and we can do all that kind of stuff that's necessary to protect our rights around that. So I think all of that was sort of very naturally flow in.
So what blockchain solves is essentially the provenance first, the authentic, authentic ownership or for which when we can basically build legal structures on top. And I think the other thing is that, you know, even if the content is only generating 100 or $1000 a year, when you can prove that there's another element of enforcement which is
social enforcement, right. So when you think back in the days when we were hunter gatherers, how do, how were we able to, you know, there was no government, how were we able to enforce essentially sort of our rights? It's because everyone else knew that was your cow, right? So because we're just a hundred 150 people, So even if I ended up taking for ox cow, then basically Mando and OSAF are like, well, hold on a second, that's for ox cow.
We say it's his cow and therefore you must return it because within our social circle we had consensus. The problem is that when we became hundreds of thousands of people, consensus was no longer possible because we really were transacting with strangers that we didn't know each other. So we needed government to come in and basically say okay, This is how it's organized. This is how I knew what was doing is what blockchain solves this because this entire sort of
provenance is now on chain. Meaning that, you know, if it's for ox digital cow, then you know, everyone knows this is COW. And if I happen to take that cow, then you know, everyone else around the ecosystem will know that I took the cow. So it's a social enforcement that comes, which we see today when there's a hack we create, you know, before the police is even involved.
Actually, there's a social mechanism around blockchain that creates already an hour of defense and analysis and all that kind of stuff because everyone can see it. So I so I think you know that will sort of create more of a sort of the social, the social enforcement layer that wasn't possible in digital until today. So by the way, that was that was
so good. Thank you Amanda for asking, 'cause I think there's a lot of lot of lot of gems in here and for people to really understand like different use cases of the blockchain, why the blockchain in general? So definitely we need to elevate all this. But you came here today to speak also not only about tiny tab, but open campus, right? Like they're on stage with us right now on the on the Twitter spaces.
So say if you're on here we're both on video and audio deal with Yatsu founder of Anamoka you've all heard of ya before is legend Mr. Metaverse and and he he accepted to to come on video with us and the open open campus stuff is where it gets really interesting right. Like I saw it's it's it's actually it's a really big deal. So do you want to talk to us about, you know, what Open Campus is like, what's what's
the low down on on that? Well, I mean I think you'll hear a lot more about Open Campus. But the way that you can think of Open Campus is that we're basically building it as a kind of educational layer for schools, institutions and teachers and creators in that field to basically use that as a way to on board into web into Web 3:00 and basically build it as the educational platform that really doesn't exist in Web 3
today. And in some ways it's kind of wild to think that you know there is nobody, really, nobody else really doing education at scale in web three when it is in fact one of the most important pillars of any society. And you've probably heard me speak this before which is that I think of blockchains, layer one layer twos and metaverses kind of as as national economies, right.
And the the way to basically you know one of the key pillars of any kind of economy is the state of education that you have in the space and it's a protocol basically you think of it as that sort of enables and empowers you know educators in the space and you know it's powered by the Edu token. So it's a it's a token infrastructure. We have a creator fund which is $10 million to basically help basically people who are interested you know in sort of furthering web through education.
They can go for grants. It's a Dow. So that means that you can put in your proposals and you can vote on on things around sort of which proposals should be funded that basically sort of use sort of, you know it could be, you know I think we have like web through literacy programs, we have to educational K12 programs and all that kind of stuff to
basically help advance that. And there's a there's a there there is the thing about this is it there's an actual very practical sort of, you know sort of a financial incentive here because when you create content, you can sell that content and the content has educational value attached to it because a qualified teacher is doing it. And the buyer of that content doesn't necessarily have to be a Web Three person. It can be someone else who's like oh, I want this English
content. They don't necessarily even have to know that Web Three is powering the back end and they would basically be just be using it on you know participating platforms like Tiny Tap, pay a fee and then basically that fee gets paid to the owner of the NFT which they can basically buy
through open campus. And we've got financial institutions like Gems, we've got schools, we've got you know and most recently we sort of announced A partnership with Forbes with the OC 100 which is basically sort of trying to honor essentially you know the movers and shakers of Web Three particularly that are sort of pushing it forward in education
and and and so forth. So, so this you know it's, it's a, it is still an early initiative relatively speaking you know, but it has you know significant financial power behind it and that's again something that you can really only do in Web 3. Wow this is sick like you guys are. This is really, really good. Like, I, I I love what's being built here and it's super interesting. So it's. I think a lot of people should look into that.
So what are what are some what's the big wins right that you guys you know that the the project nailed so far like what are some
really. Yeah. So, yeah, so maybe maybe one other thing that before I go into the big wins, maybe I I just wanted to highlight as well is you know when we think about sort of let's call it impact investing or for purpose investing, there aren't a lot of projects out there where you can say that if I own this token or if I own this NFT, I'm not just potentially sort of you know, having personal gain out of you know whatever effort if I could
I could make out of this. But also I'm helping a broader cost. And by the way we do this for instance today when we choose to sort of you know, buy green or we choose to sort of you know, be sort of you know, energy friendly or we basically look at sort of you know, sustainable environmental products as an example. And there hasn't really been a mechanism to do this for
education. When you think about it, even though we all can agree that education is very important, that teachers need to be paid more, that value should be shared across educated educators more broadly. And so really think about it for the first time. If you actually get involved in the project, you're actually helping a broader cause, in this case, make teachers more money, which then basically creates a positive flywheel, right.
So, and I actually think that's one of the other sort of hidden powers of Web 3 which we can do with NFTS or other kind of projects. It's not just about sort of you know, it's something that is sort of artistic or beautiful or pure utility. There's also the whole element around actually doing something that has really positive impact which which by the way I think will be a trend in the future as
well. Meaning it's not just going to be an education, it's going to be also for like animal welfare. It's going to be for all sorts of other areas. You know, like other good causes were you know, through a tokenized infrastructure, you can basically sort of help create sort of positive causes that are also not going to be charity but actually can be profitable.
And so, you know, the example here would be the publisher NFT sales that we did, you know, we had a an initial, the last sale that we did had over $1.3 million of demand, which for educators is, is a lot. And you know, some of the teachers ended up making, you know, literally half a year to a year worth of their salaries from the sale of these NFTS.
And you know, this is actually, again, something really quite fascinating because you know, when when someone like a teacher, a creator, makes more money, the natural thing they do is, you know, they might spend a little bit on themselves, but then they hire their friends and they build more educational content, right. You know, and and this is the
thing, right? If if the person involved on the other side that's making money is mostly there for financial gain, which we have a lot of people in the initial Web 3 space as well, they tend to buy other things that aren't necessarily going back into the ecosystem. But you know, and by the way, we've seen this with NFT
artists, right? If NFT artists make money, sure, they, they, they might buy some nice things for themselves, but they also buy more NFT art to get involved in ecosystem and they reinvest in them because they're builders, right. So, you know, giving builders more capital actually makes the building environment bigger and better, broadly speaking. So again, we've seen, we've seen that effect. You know, we have several, I think like 7 cohorts in the accelerator. We have an Open Campus
accelerator. We want to bring up to 100 educational companies into the ecosystem by the end of the year, which I think would be quite impactful. We also launched our Open Campus ID, which is basically sort of a way in which we can sort of start tracking your educational identity and your data around that. Just think about sort of you know, some of the possibilities that that could come from that, you know, how do you do provenance, you know, on chain in terms of you know, your, your
degree or your background. I mean just think about today when you're actually trying to sort of verify someone's background, what you have to do, well, you have to call the college, right. You have to get their permission. You have to figure all that out or could you just do it on chain with permission from the end user in the zero knowledge proof way? He doesn't have to reveal everything, he just reveal the
things that he needs to reveal. And so I know that OK, he went there and OK, he did this degree and everything else doesn't really matter. Because really, why? You know, when you send your sort of sort of ACV to to you know, to to work or wherever it is that you do, do they need to do everything on your background, right. They really only need to know the pertinent things that you give them permission to. And that's again something that
blockchain can solve. But you know some of the other things that are going to be I think pretty pivotal. And again, we're not doing them yet. But think about the space that education covers, right? It's not just learning and education, it's things like student loans, financial services. I mean these are massive, massive industries that are basically controlled by people who are really abusing essentially their monopoly positioning. And we know what Web three and and blockchain can do.
Now imagine what happened in the world where you can actually take this type of power that Web three can already enabled, which by the way is a 1.71 point, $8 trillion space today, right, underpinned by Bitcoin. And you can actually provide some of that, let's say value down to the student level in the form of potentially loans or something like that. How could that change the world, for instance?
And how could that actually create more opportunity in a manner that is more sort of sort of Fair and equitable? So, you know, there's I think the possibilities are endless. I think if once you start going to the education rabbit hole, you start to understand. That's why it's a $5 trillion space and Web Three is, I think, ideally suited to help change and alter and disrupt it for the better. I could listen. Yes, you speak for hours, man.
But you guys, I mean, OV Mando. The future of education is bright, huh? You guys have young. You know, you OV's got one on the way. Mando's got one that's a year old already. Ed I I'm bullish on my future kids when I hear stuff like that. This is this is cool. Honestly. Like it's. I think it's a it's a space that needs to be revolution. I mean there's been some companies that have been that
have been very, very popular. I think if you can, if you can form degrees or qualifications which people can start to be internationally recognised that that would be the real end goal or something like this, because then then it can have incredible power I think, or maybe on board some of the already internationally recognized qualifications. But yeah, it does feel like a space where the incentives are often misaligned. It's very, very difficult for
people to track quality. Like the only only time you can really track quality of kids education is like parents teacher meetings right. Or and this is a much better way of potentially seeing seeing the value in in different courses. So like courses are so big in post education work so like you know people have been selling courses for a long long long time so so it does feel like that's the space that could that could move in here relatively relatively quickly.
So yeah, I think it's a it's a very smart industry. I didn't realize it was, it was that big in terms of I guess, I guess obviously spending too but. Just just just think about how much your parents and how many for those who may have that have taken student loans, just add up that amount of money before you know until university.
Let's just just work back and just start calculating what that sum is and then suddenly you're going to go, wait a second, actually maybe that's not even that much relative to the scale or size that we invest in, right? Have you spoken so? Institutions, those institutions that you might spend, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars on, like already the big universities interested in this sort of platform. Have you seen those university endowments? I mean, these are Fortune 500
companies, which is like what? I mean, you know, like the idea originally when I first grew up, you know, I was thinking educational companies, It ought to be sort of a little bit more sort of on the sort of social enterprise style. And then like, wait a second, these are money making machines, right? They're not for profits, man. They're not for profits. You should. You should know how they run, yes. Exactly, exactly. Yes.
Oh my, I love that. So yeah, look, I know, I know we we had to start late because of all the bug, the the issues we have. But I do have a couple more questions for you And then you know we're going to free you so you can go enjoy your hopefully the celebration's coming up but what are what's the what's the game plan right 2024 you know it's it's going to be it's a great year for crypto thus far. It's looks like it's going to be a great year.
You know we're going to get to the market report for everybody listening after we're done here but it's still guys going to be a good one all around. So what's what's the game plan for for Open Campus and Amoka And then you know of course like what are the exciting stuffs you got you guys got on the on the horizon. Well, I mean there's a, there's a whole bunch, but let me first start with Open Campus.
I I sort of teased a little bit earlier you know Open Campus ID obviously the design is to have that be a core primitive basically in the entire Open Campus ecosystem. You know for the learner profiles we just talked about you know the acceleration program as well. You know the the the funding that we set aside for basically people creating content around that area, bringing in many more sort of educational companies that are not in web three.
You know stay tuned for some sort of pretty big protocol based views around that area. And initiatives like OC 100 and Open Campus University that basically really aim to spotlight creators and sort of spotlight sort of you know what education in web three is all about. And again, you know, I gave the examples earlier. We just have to scale that out. In some ways. The good news is that because it's such a sort of nascent Web 3 space, it can really only go up in terms of growth, right?
It's a little bit like, as I said, it's like gaming in in in 2018-2019, right? It's like it, it seems like a really small space, but actually when you think about it naturally it can only really grow and expand and and we're obviously hoping that there'll be a lot more participation.
But then of course the other thing that Animalca is also quite focused on for this year is, is the Mocha verse, which is another basically concept for us that basically helps tie in essentially the Animalca ecosystem of a 450 plus portfolio companies and our various subsidiaries into essentially 1 ecosystem. You know, not just in governance but also in terms of basically using that for for basically sort of you know like a decentralized steam, you know
like examples for instance. Like we've invested in over 150 games and the expectation for us is obviously that you know why, Why would you have to basically launch like your KYC, every wallet every, every single time when you basically you can just simply do that by by by having a single ID for instance, you know and being able to share those network effects basically across your entire network is is what we're hoping that more of us can do. And it's been quite a successful
sort of community build up, you know, and it's kind of cool because it was built over a bear market, right. I mean it's we started in in 23, which is really, if you think about it, arguably a bad time to do stuff.
But that's actually the best time to do stuff because it brings in a core group of people who are really here for the long term because if you were thinking about sort of you know a quick flip you probably would have left by early 23 and would have been a little bit shy of the space so.
So I think we've we've had the good fortune of building a really strong community and as you know it was effectively almost a $0.00 mint and and right now I think it's maybe around I think it's like 4-5 E whatever the price is you know
in in terms of the floor price. But you know I think the whole point on this one is it's actually helped put together a really strong community and and we'll we'll grow it from there with you know among sort of the mocha versus ID which I think is slowly approaching half a million active users at this
point. So. So again these are the things that we sort of are going to be focusing on you know outside of games and investments you know we've been very active investors in 2023 many of the games actually that are about to launch are now launching this year. It does take two to three years to make good games, as you know. So these the cycle of game launches between now and the next 12 to 18 months will be
very sort of accelerated. And so as a result, I think again, we should be expecting to see more broader Web 3 adoption from Web two people who might not even necessarily know that they're playing Web three-game, but they're basically basically, you know, getting on boarded into this whole sort of sort of Web 3 ecosystem. Wow, that's exciting. Yeah, it looks like you have a busy year ahead. Looks like you have a a busy year ahead.
What is it? I'm going to, I'm going to bother you for one more question. What are what are a couple of predictions you got for 20/20? What are you? Some like give me like 2-3 predictions for the year of the dragon. OK. But well if I'm going to, if I'm going to be bold about this, I think that this 12 to next 18 months we should be hitting our first sort of 100 million users I think in terms of the native Web 3 space. So I don't mean people owning crypto in an exchange.
I actually mean people sort of interacting basically with like you know wallets and then games and that kind of stuff. I think I think you know gaming and hopefully education will help drive that and sort of grow that space. That's that, that's one I guess sort of hope that we have the
second one. I think gaming will drive a big part of that narrative, particularly in the first part of the year just because of the fact that I think, you know, the games are launching and and you'll see a lot of, I guess success in the space as well. Just because we see this, for instance, what's happening with pixels and what's happening with, you know, the revival of AXI Infinity and Ronan as, I mean the network effects that are sort of bouncing back from
each other, right? I mean people don't generally talk about it, you know how AXI is doing really well because it's you know the media doesn't want to talk about that. But actually AXI is doing incredibly well for instance, right. And and as as an example and and the space is broadly recovering in in in in really good way.
The other area I would say is I think this is the year of Asia in the sense that you know, Asia has been at the forefront on the regulatory side of things and has basically been pushing forward, particularly when it comes to Web three culture, so gaming, NFTS and so on. The biggest game companies in the region in Asia are actually adopting Web Three.
You know, you know, Korean, Japanese game companies, they're all doing web three related projects, one form or the other in stark contrast to the US for instance, where they're still shying away from it. And I think again it has a lot to do with the context of how to view you know capitalism and the fact that their user bases, you know not as friendly towards it for the time being. But we've seen the same thing with sort of free to play in the in the freemium business models
in the early days. So I think we will see more natural growth coming from Asia than than the West. However, don't count out the the West I mean and but I think the broad market I think will be good. It's an election year. So generally speaking, we should expect this to have actually an A positive impact just because people don't want to create too much instability for all sorts
of reasons. I don't see, knock on wood any kind of major black Swans. I think last year the settlement with Finance was probably the biggest single issue that our industry had to fear and I think we are sort of clear from that, which is great. And it also told me something
else. It told me that contrary to what some naysayers would say, the US isn't out to kill crypto because if the US is in fact out to kill crypto, they could have done far, far worse than put an expensive penalty that finance can actually afford, right? It told me that the the US agrees that maybe Crypto and Web Three is systemic or it's important, or it's reached a scale that essentially has a point of no return in the sense that we have to sort of figure
it out. And you know, maybe the SEC and some people there don't agree, but the rest of the American government is not on the same page, which again is one of the beautiful things about the American democratic system, right. It's it's not talking about that way. So I feel, I feel quite positive about this and I think that it was the market clarity we saw the rest of the world is going to be adopting Bitcoin spot ETFs because after all the US doesn't need to have, shouldn't have all
the fun. Hong Kong has already received a number of applications, and I think it's quite possible that the theorems about ETFs might actually come sooner in other markets. Obi loves to hear that. OSF loves to hear that. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. But it's great, It's great. Look, I I mean I'm I'm as I said year of the Dragon 24, very bullish on where it's going to go. I mean we're generally very optimistic people.
But as a, you know the last two months, if if the last two months has been any indication, then I think 24 should should be really good here. In fact, if I had to put down a worry, I would say overheating too soon. Yeah, it said, look, we don't want to overheat too soon, that's for sure. But Bitcoin is looking great this morning yet hitting, you know the best monthly or weekly candle we've printed in four months.
I just saw that. So we'll we'll take that I. Mean I yeah, I mean I think the one thing that you know people and I think one of the other hopes that we have oversee, I don't think this will happen in 24. But long term is that when we get people into Web 3 and you know they would they become basically more financial literate just because I have to understand Web 3 because everything is kind of in the lens of financial value and
services. And I think, you know, hopefully that also means, and this is to me, I think the bigger picture that we can basically teach people more about why capitalism is important. Because I think we've reached a point in time right now which I think is quite dangerous where people, you know, it's become fashionable to start talking about Marx again and talk about sort of, you know, socialism in
in this manner. And again, I grew up in Austria in a Social Democratic country, so I'm not anti socialist per SE. But the point is, is that, you know, capitalism is the engine of growth. It gives us entrepreneurial spirit. It's the incentives that we have that we can have this disruption. And all the people who are basically sort of criticizing crypto are actually also critical to capitalism because they fear it.
And one of the things that I say to people is that actually capitalism is a proxy for change, right? We live on disruption and change. Innovation doesn't happen because it's harmonious. It happens because we create basically disruptive, crazy new ideas that can change the world. If there wasn't capitalism, we wouldn't have Tesla, we wouldn't have green energy, we wouldn't have, you know, all the things that we enjoy today if it wasn't
for that incentive. I agree that the distribution of capitalism has been, has gotten messy. But I would also add, that's because in the web two world, we're not living in a capitalist environment. Because think about this, Facebook, Amazon, Google, they control the market. It's not a free market. If you buy advertising on Facebook, who decides actually what the algorithm, who owns the algorithm that decides what you
should get? Why is it OK that when you spend advertising, you have a one to two or three percent sort of success rate? What kind of success rate is that? If you run a restaurant that has a 1 to 3% success rate, you're out of business, right? So the point is that actually the web two companies have taken away capitalism from us. They've created their own essentially means of ownership of these productions and have sold it to us basically in this sort of colonial manner.
And web three basically actually will save us I think by reintroducing capitalism and hopefully educating people about the benefits of this because essentially it's anti monopolistic in nature and actually you know, think about sort of you know how the markets evolve. I actually think that I think Web Three will basically sort of hopefully bring capitalism and the spirit of capitalism and the hope of capitalism back to everyone. Wow. Well, those are some great last
words. Yat. So thank you so much for for coming this morning. Always always happy to to to give you guys a platform with this you're building you know I think Open Campus and Tiny tap and what Animoca's funding in terms of education is very important and honestly it was great just selfishly to hear it hear and and be able to understand more about it. So thank you so much for coming this morning, Yat and glad we made it happen despite the troubles again.
Hope you have a wonderful new year. You too. Happy New Year, and thank you for having me. Thank you very much. Thank you. Yat. See ya. All right. Well, that that was a different start for the show this week, but it was a great one and it was a it was a great conversation. I mean, OV Mando. That was a lot of fun and and and lot of. Fun that one. Yeah, love having, love having yet on OV. I'm glad to see that you moved apartments and it's seemingly your Wi-Fi still hasn't gotten
better. But how? How is it? Is it still? Is it still? Lagging for you right now? No, I'm just playing with you. It's working fine. It's working fine. Why don't we, why don't we do this? So I know we started late. Why don't we go maybe a little quick little market report? Because it does look like we're getting Shabbat candles. And you know, I like my Shabbat candles. You know, I like my Shabbat candles. Are they back? It looks like they may be back.
So I'm going to kick it to one of Y'all in a second for market report, then click through NFTS and then look. We have $1000 to give to someone in the audience. All you have to do is retweet the Twitter spaces. It's pinned at the top. It's also at the bottom right purple box, drop AGM, follow a robot, follow FOMO hour and retweet the space and you may win 1000. But also the two loot box guys from from Tuesday. I hope y'all are here because I fixed the loot boxes.
I've been maintaining them. Now there is now a 99.95% chance of winning an NFT. So I fixed that and we're going to get you guys on again, but quickly, quickly, quickly. Why don't we talk markets ahead of this weekend. Coming up, man, though what? What came in? TLDR man, I would you know, listen, you even saw me.
I did the ghost of capo after going through OV somehow like tickled me inside, tried to sway me that we were going to go towards the 30 KS. It looks like bears once again in shambles obliterated crying back in the mother's basements. What's happening in the market? Looks like we're pumping, baby. Yeah. We're pumping and. Oh, we can't. Shit. Bitcoin again? You hear him? I can hear him, but he's out of sync. Like, big time and far, dude. Today is like the the day of the
nothing working. This is the day we hear you, but you're out of sync and you're low shit. Well, Ovi, Yeah, Just break the market down for me. Yeah, I mean look if things are fucking off to the races right now the S&P 500 is above 5000 for the first time ever we're at
once again new all time highs. NASDAQ is is quickly approaching 18K interest rates have been stable it's it's pretty you know we're we're obviously seeing a large crypto rally today with Bitcoin hitting north of 47 K and and Neath hitting momentarily hitting 2500. But just want to say like the under performance of crypto versus stocks in the last 18
months is still incredible. We are at new all time highs in stocks and we keep hitting new all time highs every single day and Crane crypto was still 50 to 60% off all time highs.
So the under, I know we're all excited about crypto this year because we're finally seeing some price action and things are moving and people are making some good money on altcoins and stuff out there, but we're still, you know a big big magnitude off where we would be have we been tracking stocks since the, you know the the crash in in in 2022. So I think that's it. That kind of explains partially the reason for this big crypto move.
I think some of the ETF data has been pretty strong as well, but it really is a risk on rally right now across global markets. And I just think with the way things are going with stocks right now and this is post the big macro risk factor which was the FOMC. So we've kind of digested that now and we do have inflation next week. But you know we'll see what comes with that number.
It does feel like markets want to keep rallying here and I just think crypto has to catch up. I think Bitcoin has to catch up, ETH has to catch up and and alts will catch up too. And yeah, it's tough. It's tough.
Yeah, I know I've been a bit more conservative recently, but with those GBTC outflows now normalizing and with there being a really strong macro rally as well coinciding with this, it's really tough not to be. Once again, very bullish on crypto here because everything else around you is is performing very well. Yeah, love to see that.
You're right. I was just showing I mean look I'm not a big you know macro guy like you guys but I I also keep reading that the the the crypt that the the stocks keep just keep ripping high and higher. We talked about meta last week. Obviously you see a bunch of the different stocks like on the tech side that are just flying. So it's it's the American economy is rolling right now but at least the stock market is.
And glad to see crypto I guess somewhat pin catch up here over you right 'cause you're right it was not you know, you know go under the the same way for a minute. Mando, are you back with us? Let's test one more time. Yeah, it's OK now. Yeah, it's better just hear you're from afar. But it's OK. We'll do what we have. So, Tommy what? My. Yeah, I know, I know. It's OK. It's one of those days. It's one of those days. You know, it is what it is.
We still, we still delivered a fire interview with Yatsu. So I'm not mad. And it's fried after all. So it's chilling. Look, that's that on the market. So you know what then unless there's like something crazy that you really wanted to cover Mendo. But I'm, I'm assuming you were probably going to go in and say similar things. The only. Thing happening right now is 4 O fours. Yeah, people. Around.
With those and then and then it will like only said just like everyone's getting really pulled up on these ETF inflows like they are relentless as don't fade the ETF right like every single day it's 100 million that that starts to really build up so. You reckon, Do you reckon the coin best coin desk, coin based desk or the Gemini desk just there and they get this little like RFQS?
Thing of 100. K Bitcoin of 100K Bitcoin of 100K Bitcoin. Yeah, What we're referring to is like when we're used to be traders, you used to get these tickets just pop up on your screen when someone needs to buy something and be like, oh, I want to buy this. And with the ETS, it would be relentless. It would just be like you couldn't even see other apps on your screen because there'd be so many tickets coming in from the ETFs. And I reckon that's what they're
they're facing right now. There'll be some ticketing system where they're just getting pop up every two minutes being like, yeah, I want to buy, I want to buy, I want to buy, I want to buy. So I I don't know how you fade Bitcoin like big Bitcoin right now there's big shorts at 50K people are looking at. But then you know, you know, maybe maybe this is the breakout you get there. Maybe we hit 50K and we trace a little bit. But those are just massive relentless inflows it feels
like. So I I just don't think you can fade that people are getting very, very, very bulls. Up also, I mean this is even better for ETH, right, because a lot of people, you guys have been saying this on the show too, like the if the ETFs get approved and if it's closer with something, yeah, actually touched himself and I saw you smirk there, you were listening for that part of that's for sure. But that could be bullish for that. But anyway, so it's very
exciting. We'll see what happens over the weekend of course, and and and we'll get excited about that on Monday. NFT wise some pullbacks across the board when it comes to Bitcoin, the RCS went under .1, they were to point 12/8. Yesterday went back to .0505 or something .05 based on some comments like Casey made. But you know that's that that seems to be a nothing burger. Quantum Cats .26 that puppets even retraced a bit but seems that everything's bouncing in this morning.
Love to see that ERC Four O 4 is of course getting all the attention on the NFT front on ETH those collections are doing really well and then Pandora is still pumping. There's a lot of good stuff happening there of course some good crypto punk sale. You absolutely love to see that
at all times. And then last but not least on Solana. I mean Solana is a general has seen has been like very very quiet on the meme coin and and the and the NFT side since Jupiter but also you know a lot of stuff happening on ETH right now with four O fours and everything and Bitcoin like you know it's it's again like it's a participants thing so people probably follow the money there but Solana itself like the token is above one O 5 and seems to
have broken that that you know it was at one O21O3 mando that it kept kind of being smashed back down at so I. Think it's just Bitcoin, man? Like Bitcoin, dominance is rising. Bitcoin is beating most altcoins today, right? But that's. Again, it's beating most all coins. This reminds me of when Bitcoin went from let's. Go. 26K to 35K all coins didn't move and a lot of people were more annoying. If you bring up like Bitcoin dominance, that's the real thing to look at here.
We went from about 50% to now breaking towards 54% I think roughly. So yeah, that's the one and I personally think that could be a a bit of a a move here like like obviously you had that that dip a couple weeks ago, but now it looks like we're breaking back towards the those highs and this one feels strong, like this one feels very, very strong to me. I think Bitcoin dominance, I would be unsurprised if that heads heads towards 60% so and in that world.
You think? If you buy, a lot of people are looking at some of the the Bitcoin alts again, which have started to move. You started to see. It's not that I don't think altcoins will move, but this could be one of those periods where like everyone in altcoins is sitting there going like. Fuck, I said. Just. Bitcoin because it can be quite painful.