Good morning, good morning GMGM everyone, and welcome to another episode of Homo Hour. Today is Friday, April 25th point .5 and it's another green morning out there folks. GM and D crypto majors, alts, beams, all rally, even the crypto AI board is pumping. And the question is, can this continue? We're going to break it all down on today's show. No for rope, but we've got a full house. We got Mando, stats, Jeeves, all in the studio. You love to see it, boys.
Jim, hey, how you doing? I'm doing great, man. I'm doing great. Someone is here. Indeed, sun is shining, but even in Chicago sun, we haven't had it for for months, but we have it now, sets Sam, Jim, how are you doing? GMGM, how's Life? Good. Even even better, now I could talk to you. I'm doing. Yeah, you know, like I said, I haven't had a coffee yet, so my personality will change as the show goes on. Well, we're excited to track that and your caffeine levels in
real time during the show. And folks, we've got Jeeves on with us here this morning as well. Jeeves GM, how you doing? GMGM ready to be that coffee for Sam? Wake him up here. Let's go, baby. Well. I don't have coffee, but what I do have is a shiny new Canon. Erect here, folks. I've got the old one here. Is it better? You said it was better. I I haven't actually tasted it, but Ovie says this one's way better. So. So I I gave my I gave a review on X yesterday.
To those who who've already hasn't seen it, that was not a paid review by any means. That was an honest and genuine review. This is better. I I haven't, is it just? Water or is it? Is it just sparkling flavored water? It is flavored sparkling water. Very very clean list of ingredients. I'm going to read them off. Carbonated water, organic agave syrup, natural apple flavour, natural Raspberry flavour, natural flavours and then malic acid. So pretty clean ingredient list.
It is more carbonated than the lime and I like the flavours. How did you get them? I think, I think Obi must have sent you them. I haven't even got any. So I don't know what you did for the first round, but you you got them before I did. I still haven't tasted it. So he's doing this like abstract tour at the moment. He's doing like 20 different shows of the last two days. So Tyler, you tell me how you got them. Like, did you? I've got the inside track.
Yeah, clearly. With OV but that I believe they will open up for a public sale soon. I think there is some some news to come. So I don't know exactly when that's going to be. I do think it is going to be soon and I think these are going to move quickly that that's my prediction at least as soon as people get a chance to taste these because they are quite good folks. What are we talking about on
this morning show? We're going to talk about more than coffee and drinks, even though I could probably do a full hour on this. We're going to talk about the crypto market rallying. Is it decoupling the the Bitcoin ETS $2.8 billion in inflows in five days, Seoul outperforming in majors, we outperforming in alts. the Fed rescinding its crypto guidance, Metamask launching gasless trading, Coinbase listing, Zora market didn't care. Memes pumping crypto, AI pumping.
Deloitte eyeing 4.5 trillion and tokenized real estate. I know Jeeves's eyes lit up when he saw that RWA headline plus double yeet spins. Before we dive in, a quick shout out to our partner Wallet Connect. Wallet Connect is the connectivity network shaping the future of on chain UX. If you've connected to a web 3 app, you've seen wallet connect that blue logo. It's everywhere, an icon of trust in crypto as recognizable as Visa at the checkout. You want to learn more?
Follow at wallet connect on X and Telegram to stay ahead of what's next. All right, we love our partners. As always. Mando, if you're ready, let's get into. It. Can you dig it? Good day, another good day really in crypto. I think we everyone keeps waiting for the day that we kind of sell off and there just seems to be support around this like 92 1/2 or 92 K level for Bitcoin at the moment and these green candles continue. I think it's just something to always be worried about with
crypto. Is that like the good periods often and actually sometimes the bad periods happen quickly. You know, risk happens quickly in crypto. And and right now, I think if you weren't exposed to the market, you are probably in I'll buy the next dip. And and these dips have quite shallow, it feels like. So probably, probably just indicates that people were were less invested than I thought they were. And yeah, good, good period here.
Bitcoin dominance is is still kind of hanging out at 64 1/2. It's mainly because of ETH is still underperforming, but there's been some winners in in L1 for sure. Sui has probably been the main winner and then a lot of the more risky activity on on Solana's come back. So most of the major Solana memes are up a decent amount and some of the AI coins, the AI coins are back up to 8 billion as a as like a as a group now on cookie, which I thought was was
relatively interesting. Fartcoin has not been doing as well, which I thought was was, yeah, again interesting. It's it's now gone a bit more broad and there's there's a few other things involved in that rally. I I think the main story at least for trap by this week continues to be this this this Canter vehicle alongside Tether.
I just think that that the idea that we may have like another micro strategy and you've seen a very good reaction to Canter stock on the back of that is it's just a good sign. And I think people are thinking that, you know, this is going to continue here as other other vehicles may be spun up, whether it's sovereign wealth funds or or actually public vehicles than to to buy Bitcoin here. So that's why I think the dips
are shallow. And I think people also will probably less invested than than they were a few months ago. So there's a little bit of FOMO creeping in. I don't know if now's like some incredible time to buy, but I do think it's, I would be unsurprised if like there's this grind hire, which is, which doesn't feel that good for a lot of the market participants. That's that's kind of my guess, yeah. I don't really know why Sui, Our performance has been kind of strange.
All I can really see is this is this Pokémon thing because it hasn't. It's not like a ton that ever really goes on on Sui, if I'm honest. It's a lot of like B to B stuff rather than huge amounts of D fire or anything like that or huge amounts of NFTS. There's some stuff going on, but it's it's nowhere near like some of the other chains. So maybe we're going to hear some more headlines specific to Siri coming on the the move feels like it feels almost parabolic at this stage, right?
75% in seven days from now. One that's pretty aggressive. It's big. I mean 37 billion FTB. Yeah, right. What do you what do you do in sui? Does it seem like a catch up trade Mando people trying to chase what would maybe be next cycle Solana since it has a bit of like narrative and mind share? That's what it always has been with Sui. I feel like I just don't know why at times it feels like, oh this is, I don't know.
Like if I look at I don't know how much stables, like what is Sui TVL like so ETDL has only 1.5 billion or 1.7 or 8 billion. Like that's not crazy as chains go. Yeah, like Arbitrim has 2 1/2 eight. It's kind of just above Avax really, right. Sonic's even close to it. I, I don't know, just see. It just seems like it has this like momentum behind it. And I, I get the feeling it may be there's going to be some headlines around Siri that maybe we haven't heard about.
Like those numbers don't point to like, Oh my God, this, this is about to go crazy, right? Have you guys used Siri? Like is this a platform you guys spend time on? I haven't. I don't think it's very B to B to C like there's not much activity that goes on. There's been a lot of like corporate integrations that I've seen, but less less like NFTS mean points. I don't even know if people use it for payments that often. I think that's the right, I mean, I have used it.
I've I've traded some NFTS on this suite, I've traded a handful of tokens, but I do think Mando's read is the right one. I mean daily active addresses are they do seem to be grinding up here. They're up 3X this year. You always have to be careful with that metric and they can be blamed. Maybe I'm missing what people are doing on there. Like I look at the where the TBL is, it's this sui lend protocol. So they clearly have a lending protocol on there.
So pop. Pop over to search, search for Sui, go to Application Activity, it's the next one on that ribbon. And then click View All Assets, which is in the second window down. You see that? Yeah. And then filter by daily active addresses, sort that from these. I think it's already sorted actually by that. Yeah, record. I've never heard of any of these things. 818,000 people using SIM app 116,000 using fan TV.
I've never heard of any of this. Like you see the Siri is my biggest alt bag and I've never used the chain and I know nothing about it. I I think that's what's driving a lot of the price to be honest. Yeah. Maybe we should pay attention to record. It's got a million active daily addresses. I just typed in record and sui and nothing's come up. Nothing comes up on Google either. Yeah, that's what I mean. What's going on here guys? What are we? What are we missing?
Record App. It allows creators to monetize via short videos based in Dubai. Content. Maybe I missed this like. Based in Dubai. That's a signal. In the Last Post was a week ago, so it felt. Like it was more than just like the Pokémon headline. I didn't think the Pokémon headline was enough to pump it 50% this week. But I feel like from a narrative perspective, I feel like Jeeves kind of has it. Like it feels like it's the if you want to belt bet on all L1 out further out the risk curb
and salon. Like what are you? What are you going to bet on and high perhaps is is the most consensus sweet kind of next been a little bit more quiet. So so maybe that's it. I I want to zoom out a little bit. Mando, thanks for the the broader report and go around the horn. Maybe Sam, I'm curious As for your thoughts on on macro here. I think you, you shared a couple tweets this week. I was, I was scrolling through 1.
You kind of called out consumer sentiment at multi year lows and you're kind of showing how crypto sentiment feels different than that. Perhaps more 5050, which I argue maybe it's even higher than that to be honest, but maybe we have to separate Bitcoin from crypto. But just kind of maybe curious for your thoughts, going to elaborate on this and and how are you feeling about this? Bro, all the am I?
Am I losing you guys? I'm not sure if my reception is kind of getting weirder if that's everybody. You're fine now. Yeah. I mean, I, I think the macro indicators are pretty bad. I think the impact like I'm kind of of the view that we've been in like a 70 year bull market basically because of globalization, certainly the past 30 years, like bull market for big corporates. And that is kind of what we're
chipping away at right now. And that's really been the core of a huge, not just enormous earnings growth, but also huge multiple expansion for stocks. You know, if you look at things like the dollar, like they're sending pretty bad signals. I think all the pretty much every sentiment indicator you're seeing is pretty bad right now. And I think that these tariffs and kind of this commitment to kind of chip away at globalization is real. And and it's going to be going
on for a while. And I think there's a bit of a sentiment among markets that just one tweet from Donald Trump and it's all going to be over. And I just don't get that read from when I hear him. So from a macro perspective and an equity perspective, I think there's reason to be cautious. I think what we're seeing in crypto, though, is the opposite. Like we're seeing crypto starting to show signs of
behaving. I mean, if you look at metals and equities, they almost like gold is obviously the core metal. But more often than not, they're trading in opposite directions where gold goes up and equity goes down or or vice versa. And we're starting to see crypto kind of behave a bit more like gold.
And you're starting to see the use case or the idea that crypto's an interesting place to be if the world order starts to get chipped away at. Like that thesis has never played out before, but over the past few weeks you're starting to see signs of it. So I'm, I'm, you know, that that's kind of my, my broad picture view is, you know, a bit more cautious on equities and risk assets, but a bit more like kind of 5050. Like maybe crypto starts turning
here and becoming something that people want to be in, in a world where the things that we're used to and the things that have driven kind of economic growth forever start to get chipped away at. It's interesting. I, I feel like I, I agree with that directional read. I'm curious like what, what, what has shifted in this? Like what's driving this Bitcoin decoupling right now? I guess it's kind of like my question and why is I think that it's happening in the last 7 days?
I mean, it's hard to say 7 days versus like a month ago or whatever, but and it's on for a while, right? It's definitely been going off versus stocks. It's been definitely been going on. For a while, right? I think we decouple, started decoupling about six weeks ago, maybe six weeks. From like the election until like February, though, like Bitcoin was correlated with Tesla more than it was
correlated with gold. Like they're both kind of like high beta proxies for, for assets that the administration viewed favorably And like that was like, but like Tesla and, and, and Bitcoin were more correlated than than Bitcoin and gold were up until about 6 weeks ago. But we've I, I, I think just gold has been insane. You know how like this, this has been like a multi multi standard
deviation move for gold. And it's, you know, it's, it's not people don't have gold going up 35% like over six months kind of on their on their bingo card. And when that happens, I think people want to know what else they can get into. And I think really ever since the tariffs, gold has been the keynote asset. And I think once, you know, we see it in crypto like it used to be at least that when Bitcoin had run then like everything else would kind of follow.
I feel like right now people like, well, I don't want to get into gold. It feels a little it's it's run too much. Oh, Bitcoin could be like an alternative as far as like kind of like one of these inflation hedge assets, even though it hasn't been that historically. Just feels like that narrative's coming around. Plus we have an administration that really likes it. Yeah, you have Lutnick, who is working on this.
Can't, I mean, Cantor is working on this product and, you know, the head of Cantor is in the administration.
And then you have Sailor in the background who's kind of like a constant buy force as well as all the other things I have absolutely no idea about that drive these markets that we're completely oblivious to. But you know, it feels like it feels like there are a lot of different forces kind of lining up. But as people say, like, hey, we want to get out of U.S. dollars as as our kind of backbone of our portfolio, like Bitcoin just feels like an area that people might want to turn to. Yeah.
And that six weeks is basically since Liberation Day. I mean, it's really Liberation Day. I think that triggered this because that was when that was when we made it clear that like, you know, gold, that the US had an interest in being playing a different role in the world economy than we have in the past. And Bitcoin was 75 K on 17 days ago. You. Know yeah, it's it's been pretty it's been pretty sudden. I don't know what the trigger was that that switched us from fear to FOMO.
I'm not sure what that trigger was. I mean, other than perhaps maybe that was when gold really started hitting these like crazy all time highs every day and doing like 3% moves, which it never used to do. It is interesting if, if I feel like there is growing sentiment that stocks like, while we might get like relief rallies, that the, that the, the broader direction is still down and that the, the pain of the terrace hasn't even really been seen
yet. And if stocks become less investable, but you still want to invest, like what are the options? I think you kind of laid it out and gold's on a parabolic move. Do you want to buy the top or do you want to buy something else? Real quick, folks, today's raffle block code is Friday and we are going to be doing those yeet giveaways here and probably just about 10 to 15 minutes.
So they are coming up. Jeeps, I want to give you a chance to weigh in. And we, we, we talk every Tuesday about the conversation here. Yeah, I mean, just a just a lot, Tyler, this move and interest in Bitcoin, I think it makes sense. It's something that we've talked about for a long time. When Bitcoin was 75 K, it looked less like digital gold. At closer to 95, it's looking a lot more like digital gold. And I think that narrative just
compiles. You know, last night at this event, I was talking with a guy who's a wealth manager for high net worths. He's now putting 2% allocation into Bitcoin for all of his clients. And I think that's where it starts. This is one of the things that we had spoken about earlier where, you know, folks are and, and, and ideally advisors start to recommend to their clients to have some level of Bitcoin
allocation. But I think when you see these huge signals like Cantor going after the Bitcoin space, like taking over the micro strategy, replicating micro strategy, when you start to see the government moving in a very pro crypto direction with, you know, the two stable bills that are happening with the market structure bill and the government's clearly aligning toward crypto, It makes it less of a scary asset to invest in in times like this.
And when you see when you start to see the price go up, I think sentiment changes. You know, I, I love seeing sort of the hard data and then I love like the sentiment checks with neighbors, people in different industries just to see how things are going. And so, you know, we talked about this privately, but just know a lot of folks who are changing up general spending behavior. Our neighbor stopped over yesterday. She's a realtor, you know, covers the Denver market, has
been in it for a long time. And she said things are have now cooled off significantly. So we cooled off for a little while. I think things started to heat up slightly again. And she said it is completely dead and no one's moving, no one's selling, no one's buying. You know, obviously rates are a huge part here, but you know, the reality is that people and companies are having difficulty making any type of long term decisions, not knowing where
things are heading. And so stability in the world and markets is just being disrupted a bit. And so for now, the, the best decision for most people has become no decision. And then this right here, you know, I think this is some really great data coming out of trucking activity in Los Angeles. The the data source here is Sonar which is a data and logistics company. Focused on on shipping,
trucking, etcetera. And this is showing that things are kind of falling off a Cliff coming out of trucking in LA and this guy Craig Fuller is anticipating a 50% drop here. So we're talking major reduction in trucking coming out of LA, which is where a lot of our Asian goods come in to sports. So we're seeing it in the data. We are thanks. Thanks for sharing this and I I was trying to find a friend of mine runs in e-commerce business.
He sells E bikes and he posted his thoughts yesterday and basically said most small E com businesses are just in survive mode. And that might mean selling existing inventory till it's gone and not repurchasing anything until there's more clarity on supply chains and and where they can source products from. And he is kind of comparing it to the COVID level crisis. Just bunker down and and try to make it through. And he paints A gloomy picture as well.
And like this is going to start to to impact folks, impact products, a sun shelves, higher prices, all that. So that picture is gloomy. I think Sam, you also shared bat soups thoughts which are pretty in line. He's saying recession at best, stagflation at worst. Basically, US has put themselves in in a tough position here. One of the interesting things talking about soup is like, I think there's this view that the money printer is going to turn on and that's going to save everyone.
I think people are really imprinting this COVID economic cycle onto this cycle when COVID was such a unique outlier that to think like that's going to be replicated, I think, you know, it, it, it feels uncertain to me for sure. But bat Sup's kind of of the view that lower rates might be
bad for markets that right now. There's that, that right now, broadly speaking, like people think like long term inflation is going to be higher and, and like, and that lower rates aren't really aren't really the the key or the solution. And one of the interesting things was the day that it was announced or the day it wasn't, it was never announced, but the day it was suggested by Walter Bloomberg and Watcher guru that Trump wasn't going to fire Powell.
And he said that to you like the day that he said like, I'm not going to fire Powell, markets ripped. Now him firing Powell would be dovish. Like the reason he doesn't like Powell is because Powell wants to keep rates high or doesn't want to keep right side, but he's not willing to just go full money printer rates to 0. So you would think that him saying he's not going to fire him would mean that we're going to be more hawkish.
But on that day, you know, basically when he said we're going to be tighter, like the market's completely ripped, which to me says that it's actually not money printed that people are looking for or it's stability because Powell is a sign of stability. He's not a sign of free money. And the idea that he was sticking around, you saw a 3%
rally in NASDAQ. So I thought that was kind of interesting because if you look at the timeline, I feel like just crypto, we're all still so like wedded to, you know, sitting around our houses in COVID, during COVID, watching everything go up 8% per day. And we want that to return. So, you know, we're thinking, OK, we're just going to replicate that, but with a new cycle. I just don't think that's kind of the the situation we're in right now. I tend to agree.
I feel like printing money right now that goes against everything that that Trump has said that they're they're trying to do investment right. They're trying to reduce the the debt you. Know who you know who is printing right now? China. China big time, and a bunch of other countries as well, Like the US is posturing that we're at the table with China, while China's just publicly saying there's no negotiation talks happening. Which is a huge.
Huge divergent in I think just people puffing their chest in different areas. But like it's clear China's ready to Duke this out. Like I think just this morning they injected was it CN¥600 billion, which is like $82
billion aiming to provide. They, they, they want to make sure that the the banking sector has plenty of liquidity to to wait this out and they're ready to print and ensure that a lot of their folks are in decent positioning over the next call it six months, a year, however long. They want to fight this out scary.
It's it's concerning, I think. The narrative that that I'm seeing out of this China's printing, buying gold, selling U.S. dollars, perhaps buying digital gold, I haven't seen as much of, of that, but it would certainly be in line. Or perhaps that enables more confidence from the sovereign wealth funds from these institutions, from these new strategy competitors which are spinning up to start building these crypto treasuries. James, I'm curious kind of maybe
going one step further. I wanted to talk trends. I think we've talked this macro picture, you know, 20 minutes now. I feel like there there's some things shifting in the crypto space. I feel like we're we're seeing some new things start to happen, some new trends. I'm curious what jumps out to you. And I, I feel like right now it's just such a heavy liquidity fight. But obviously the RWA space that we've talked about quite a bit has been one of the massive emerging trends.
If you look at a company like figure who's putting, you know, billions of dollars in, in Helocs on chain, you know, you have Deloitte writing an entire thesis on this. We're coming off the backs of the Digital Asset Summit where all the major players were really pushing this whole concept of RW as right RW as are not new.
They were, they've been around since I've been in crypto and that was around 20/14/15 when people were talking about putting your home on chain and your car on chain and everything will be on chain. And it really never materialized. I think the first wave of RW as were these small to medium business loans from like Maple Centrifuge, some of the other players and then you sort of saw that die out. It's kind of living around a
bit. Goldfinch was in there as well, but then they started to see default risk there. There's there's a bunch of problems with that. And, and now what you're seeing is a lot of private credit come on chain. And that's the new darling child in the RWA space. And So what does that mean?
You see folks like Apollo, you see KKR, they, they run these giant private credit books, whether it be private credit, debt, infrastructure, there's tons of different instruments that they do. And a lot of folks are thinking, OK, RW as are coming on chain, they're going to put these different strategies on chain. But degens aren't going to be the customers of these different assets. And I think that's where folks get confused with them because
folks like this will never work. Degens won't buy it. That's not exactly what it will look like. So when you think of how this works, there's the capital formation component, there's the actual underlying asset that that capital flows into, and then there's capital distribution, right? This strategy made some money. We need to pay out our investors.
The tail ends are where we're going to see crypto use the most upfront because now you can basically set up either either sort of via automated via smart contracts or ease of capital formation on chain. But then just utilizing stable coins, you're now reducing your fees for capital formation and capital distribution by 100 plus bits. And when you're doing tons of these deals, that matters over
time. So I think folks are now realizing we can use crypt, blockchain, rails and stable coins to create huge efficiencies in our operations. And look, Apollo's large investment into Plume is a, is a huge signal to that, to that thesis.
So this is one of the areas, as, as you know, we talk about this almost every Tuesday. It's one of the areas that on the early stage venture side, you know, I look for companies that are building and doing this and probably talk to three to five a week building in this space. And I think it's one of the the hot areas. The problem I'll point out here, you know, from the retail side and the investor side, it's where will appreciation from the
investor standpoint fall? Will it be at the protocols issuing the private credit, private debt? Will it be at the specific block chains that are actually, you know, coordinating all these efforts? Or will it end up being the public companies like your KKRS and your Apollo's who are now gaining the huge efficiencies by issuing these products on chain and saving a bunch of money that way? So I know that's a lot, but that's kind of where my head's at with this space.
It is a lot, but, and this is clearly one of the the biggest macro trends happening in crypto, it's going to take time to play out, but we're seeing more evidence of it on on a weekly basis. So we'll stay close to it. We won't have time to get into it today, but on Tuesday's show, save your thoughts, we got to talk about Coinbase trying to stop the Genius X stable coin bill and if we think that's going to be a positive or negative.
So that was a bit of a surprise. We haven't talked about it on this show. TLDR, they think they're only going to be able to get one crypto bill through Congress this year and they want a broader bill than this current act. So we'll see if they're able to make that happen. Another trend I want to talk about quickly, and Sam, maybe I'll throw this one to you, is out of Metamask and this broader trend of account of abstraction and abstracting away different aspects of the user experience
on chains. The news out of Metamask yesterday, you, you, they, they announced this a while ago. It's officially real. Now you don't need ETH to do transactions using them at a mask on Ethereum. Now they will use what tokens you have as and they will make it your gas token effectively behind the scenes, as I understand it, they'll be converting it to ETH for gas and they're also enabling you to choose whatever default gas
token you want. So if you want to always operate on USDC, on Ethereum, now you can do that. I think one of the immediate questions that comes to mind when people sees this is what does that mean for Ethereum, for ETH? Curious if you have a take on this. I have a couple takes here. First of all, this problem is one that I dealt with today and the like doing transactions on Polygon where you got to get money over there, You got to figure out how to get the matic
to, to pay the gas. You got to figure out like it is extremely difficult. Like I've had a lot of time for I'm pinging friends to be like, hey, can you send me $6 of whatever into this address so that I can buy this NFT or whatever. Like it's, it's a really clunky, awkward user experience and I'm old and I'm not like the the perfect demographic for doing this stuff, but I'm pretty high up there. I work full time in crypto. I'm pretty high up there for should be able to figure this
stuff out. And even for me, it's incredibly difficult. So the challenge of like getting in today, like I had money on base and I just wanted to, I wanted to put it into some stable stuff. Do we lose him? Same with OSHA Dane. Yeah, yeah. Keep cooking. Yeah, so this is like a serious problem to fix. So I personally think this is great. Obviously it has to be done well.
You know, you don't want to end up like realizing you paid some absurd rate to move your pengu to pay for your gas and Arbitrum or something like that. So if they, you know, you got I got to like it. Feel like there's potential bugs in here where it could be like, but if assuming that it's done well, this feels very useful. What does this mean for ETH
prices? Probably nothing like I I like, I don't think this is like a driver for ETH prices, but I think it's like a nice to have usability factor. What is a driver for each prices? FOMO, man, I mean, these are it's a meme coin. Like maybe people are going to hate me. I mean, it's very hard to back into a hundreds of billions of dollar valuation for something like any of this. Like none of this stuff really does the cash flow generator like back what it is. They're all culture coins and
like vibe coins and FOMO coins. And like, you know, and I think with ETH, we had this really great narrative that Bitcoin was going to rally because of the Trump administration. It did ETH was the the next one to go because it was the only other one with an ETF. And that was like, so Bitcoin would rally, then Eastwood rally because that was what American retail had access to and easy access to.
And that thesis just, you know, maybe it played out for a little while, but it's not showing legs. And I think people are like struggling to figure out what the next thesis is because at the end of the day, hundreds of billions of dollars, you know, I think it's very hard to back into a fundamental backing for that. So it's very vibe based and when vibes go down, it becomes harder. I will say this.
I, you know, I, I every night I do, I do a once a week chess lesson with a guy in Ukraine and I pay him 35 USDC for the hour chess lesson and he pings me. He said, Hey, I moved it all to ETH. So that's, that's my warm boy. She's like, yeah, exactly. He's like, I took, I took the last 35 bucks a week. Fine. So man, maybe maybe Ukraine or he lives in Slovakia, maybe Slovakia in retail is like, you know, 11 indicator.
But yeah, I, I don't, I, I think the story for Ether is often like next best story after Bitcoin in the FOMO right world, because FOMO, which has all this stuff and that just hasn't been playing out. So people are like, all right, what's next? Jeeves, you, so you're, you're the wealth manager you're talking to. Is he just 2% Bitcoin and and no exposure or anything else? Just Bitcoin, he thinks it's like a nice, nice gold head.
She thinks he's just he's he's actually he said last night that he was more bullish Bitcoin than gold long term. And I love that. You know one thing, Sam, to your point, I, I pointed this data out to Tyler earlier this week. You know, Artemis Mando, I saw you using it before. Love this platform when you start to look at going back to just like it's narrative focused, you know, Artemis has this great thing when you look at projects, you can sort the
market cap by revenue. So they they create a ratio on this and man, one of the top ones here trading at a 49,000 X Ripple, Yeah. And the theory I'm starting at 2300 X Swede at 2500. XI mean this is the yeah, take it or leave it. I don't know how accurate this data is, but I think it's interesting when you come here and look at these multiples, it's just one piece of data in a much larger picture. But man 49,000 X that's. But where does Bitcoin trade? I think XRP is just a Bitcoin
now. Like people who own it, do they even care if it has a use case? Like I think they in 20 years, if Ripple doesn't have a use case, I don't think the people who own will care. It's like this Bitcoin community of just like this is our currency XRP army. I think Ripples in a great little spot there because it's got that and not many others do like ETH. I know it sounds ridiculous, but everyone ETH is a professor who is like, oh, we were trying to build this at the revenue and
the revenues gone wrong. You need more left curve. This is going to 500 trillion people in your community and Earth doesn't have that. It doesn't have any meme value. Um, it doesn't. It's not seen as the currency. It's seen as a as a PE multiple and that's what where it has gone wrong. And the same thing with NFTS. The minute people start trying to build fundamental valuations, you know you're fucked because these numbers are just way too
high. Like, you know, it's like Clonex. Clonex cost $80,000 and they're sending people shoes. Even if let's just say they were free. They weren't free, but let's just say they were free. No pair of shoes is going to ever justify an $80,000 PFP. It has to be about the vibes, the FOMO, and the narrative. That's it. I mean, the interesting thing is ETH is the only for me.
ETH is the only actual real currency that ever existed in crypto because I think of crypto punks and born apes in terms of their ETH prices. It's like the only time where crypto actually broke through and people started to really in their brain fully calibrate an asset in terms of their cryptocurrency prices. As opposed to like, I'm never, I couldn't tell you how many Bitcoin I bought my house for.
I can only tell you how many U.S. dollars I bought my house for, but I know exactly how many ETH I bought each of my crypto punks for. So it's interesting, it's actually kind of broken through in the one way we all want these things to do, which is that assets actually start people start to see the world in terms of those assets. I don't think it's anything's ever done that other than ETH.
But again, you know, when you're dealing with a multi $100 billion valuation like that ain't it's just not there. I, I, I disagree. I think the meme value in like the not the meme's the wrong word, but like the cultural value, the cultural appreciation. I don't think it like it's like a dead horse. I think it could. I think it could have another gallop. It's just it's very hard to predict the the winds of culture. One last really quick Ripple thought on this one.
So going back to the soft data, whenever I'm in the sauna, people are generally talking crypto and other stuff. Ripple comes up more than any other currency. And I always just naively ask people like what what does it do? Like what's the purpose? What what do you use it for? And confidently, every single person answers it the same way. It's replacing Swift A. 100% I got I have a guy on my hockey team, my hygienist, my kids tennis coach, and now the chess instructor.
Those are my 4 examples. All four, two of them are all in on ripple and they they say it's replacing Swift. Like this narrative is 8 years old. It hasn't evolved at all, but that's still what they're doing. That's what I'm saying. All four of them. All four say Bitcoin is too expensive for them to buy. I think that's. In 20 years, they'll say the same thing it's going to replace. Not to make progress on this front. And like, that can just continue to be the narrative, folks.
To me and I I hate to say it, I'm going to say the most anti crypto thing ever. We are not early this narrative has been around for 10 years. If this were real we we would see progress like this Is not like a lot of these techs like YouTube and crypto are the same age. Crypt YouTube feels like a dinosaur product, like people are on YouTube, but you know, it's like not even where the
cool content creators are going. Like a lot of stuff is not early, but Ripple is definitely not early for hints that this is a real use case to be showing up.