Good morning, good morning everyone GMEN and welcome to another episode of homo. Our day today is Friday 8 second 45 whoops today is off to a fast start Bitcoin at 97 K stocks are booming potentially about to hit a 20 year streak and the question is can this keep going or are we a major bull trap we're going to break it down on today's show I'm getting a bit of of feedback so maybe is it is it your phone I'm. Trying to mute it, turn on what's. Working all the way down. I did.
It won't let me. There we go. Oh, so I'm a speaker. It won't let me. I'll just Chuck it to the side. Yeah. Just maybe put it to the side. But how's that? That that's better. Thank you very much, folks. We, we gave it away. Our special guest. It's Friday. We've got Sergito's joining us. Serge, how you doing? Good man, thank you for having me. Always a pleasure to come on rock radio and obviously personal friends of all the whole team. So just happy to chat with some
with some homies. Yeah, we're excited to have you on. I think Mando is going to be joining us in just a couple minutes here, folks. We've got Logan on with us last day in Peru. OK, GM, Hey, good morning. I'm feeling a little bittersweet here. Final day here in Peru, leave tomorrow night. So great trip, great time. Highly recommended for folks who have not yet ventured down here or maybe East, West, wherever you need to come from to get here. But excited to talk about it,
the show, the markets, whatever. I'm excited. We're going to miss your yellow background that. Is I know, I know this Airbnb treated me really well. Cold showers but otherwise treated me really well. Are you in Neymar? What was that? I'm sorry. Are you in Neymar? No, I'm in Trujillo, OK. Nice, Yeah, Nice, nice, nice, Regina. Where are you talking to us live from this morning? I'm in New York.
I'm in New York. But I used to go to Peru once a month for four or five years when I started my career in the the markets, I used to cover Peru. So very special place in my heart. Oh. Very nice. Well, Logan, we're happy that you're coming back, but happy had a good time as well. Folks, what are we talking about on today's show? We're going to start with the market report. Looks like we've got some good
jobs numbers. China coming to the table on trade talks, stocks on potentially the biggest rally since 2004, which is a bit confusing given everyone doom posting for for weeks now. So we got to talk about that. We're going to talk about crypto outlook here. Mr. Sergito's perspective. We got Michael Saylor announcing another $21 billion in equity offerings to buy more Bitcoin. Tether reported earnings billion dollars, very good, but down
about 75% year over year. North Carolina's close to passing their own strategic Bitcoin reserve, Playtron in the suite system. They're they're launching a new gaming stablecoin. That was an interesting one. We've got Visa and MasterCard both working on projects to give AI agents access to credit cards. That feels kind of big. We're going to break down the boop dot fun launch that was all over the timeline yesterday.
And then the the last part of the show, we will talk to Sergita about Mebits. The NFT come back in a lot more plus double yeet spins today. So you're going to want to stick around for the end of the show for that. Before we dive in, quick shout out to our partner Wallet Connect. Wallet Connect is the connectivity network shaping the future of on chain UX. If you've connected to a Web 3 app, you've seen Wallet Connect.
That blue logo, it's everywhere and I kind of trust in crypto as recognizable as Visa at the checkout. If you want to learn more, all at Wallet Connect on X and Telegram. Just stay ahead of what's next. All right, we love our partners as always, Sims, you want to give me my intro music? I'll do a bit of a market report. Yeah, it's an interesting one out there this morning here, folks.
I feel that crypto's been kind of quietly grinding up slash somewhat chopping it feels like these past few days. So Bitcoin 96,900 up, up about a percent, up just 2% on the week, though it feels a little bit more than that, I guess. I guess I don't recall staying at 95 K last Friday. ETH up 3% on the week, only up. It's basically even on the day. Slama slightly in red on the day, a few alt movers, nothing
really crazy. EOSIMX Kaya Virtual is kind of leading the charge up 6 to 9%. Nothing crazy. I think from a macro perspective, a few things going on. Bloomberg tweeting here this morning. Looks like the jobs report came in. Payrolls beat expectations decently. Unemployment stayed the same. We had Trump continuing to call for rate cuts, saying that inflation is very low and that the Fed needs to act, cut those rates. Some news out in NVIDIA.
They're tweaking some AI chips to be sold to China. It does seem like China coming to the table. Trade talks have reported, I think China said this last night that the US had reached out for for trade deals. You can position that as the US giving in, but I think end of the day, most people are just happy to see some progress on that front. Markets do seem to have like
that. So we've got stocks up about a percent here today, Dow jumping up 400, and then again on pace for the longest winning streak in 20 years. Which is made more interesting because Trump just came out and said when the recession numbers came out or the the Q1 GDP came out, that this wasn't his market, it was Biden's market. So Biden's going to have to get credit for this 20 day rally, this 20 year rally. I guess the 10 year is up today. Wow, I didn't see that. So it's back to 4.3.
So it's going the wrong way. I did see the odds of rate cuts have fallen a bit. I saw that we had this up, pulled up just a couple days ago on the show. I think the odds of four cuts in 2025 Rep up to about 41% on the CME, on the CME board, back down to 35% here. So just about about 50% chance of four to five cuts here, 35% chance of three for the rest of this year.
Back on the crypto board, ETFs were strong again yesterday, 420 million in net inflows, I bet has just been leading the charge consistently, just massive green numbers every day. So capital is flowing in through the the I bit Bitcoin ETF, Ethereum even catch them to bed. Nice little week. Those ETTFS nicely green here this week as well. That's a quick summary. We'll go into some of the more specific headlines here in a little bit. But Sergio, I'll, I'll tell it to you.
I'm kind of I want to just chat casual Friday chat like macro and and market outlook. And I'll, I'll maybe preface this by saying I, I've been trying to absorb a lot of information. I don't, I, I don't have a background in macro equities trading or market trading really. So I, I like to absorb what a lot of smart people around me are saying. And I feel like a lot of smart people for the last month, or at least since Liberation Day, had talked about how this would be a
disaster for markets. A lot of smart people saying their base case was recession with chances of stagflation and depression on the table, which is hard for me to reconcile now that we're, that we're seeing this this massive rally in stock. So I'm, I'm curious, just from your perspective on what is happening, like is this a bull trap? Should we be more worried? Like why are stocks outperforming in such uncertain times? Yeah. I mean, I think it's easy to just forget that the market's
not the economy. Obviously something for the narrative is like the market's doing well, the economy will be doing really well, markets trade our expectations as we all know. And what's happened over the last couple weeks is, you know, while there's still some commentary out there from, from the administration that are going to stay strong and, you know, China and all that stuff, the reality is we've seen them move closer back to where things were.
And so if you were around the markets back in the first Trump administration, the whole trade deal thing, we already had it happening. You know, they had a trade deal with China back then. It was called phase one trade one deal. It's purely cosmetic. Same thing with the NAFTA renegotiation that he like
turned USMCA. So I think once you know, the market pricing, the fact that OK, yeah, this might be different, like the tariffs are 145% with China, with everybody else, like if they had not changed course, we will be much lower. But the fact that they immediately started changing their tune and coming back more towards kind of like the table where, you know, putting out those fake headlines that we're talking to China and China's like, no, we're not. No, we're not.
I think that puts unfortunately, I mean, we're cheering for the US here, don't get me wrong. But if you look at it from a non political perspective and just from a pure macro perspective, the reality is that the US is against the wall of China. And so they're either going to have to, you know, agree to some sort of deal, which is removes a lot of the uncertainty. And that's why we're like so much higher from what we were a month ago. But also, you know, the Fed is
there, right? The fact that the Fed didn't do anything when we were down 20% / 2 weeks. I think it's just a good way to save those bullets from when they're necessary. And, and you'll start seeing encrypted Twitter this week, a lot of talk about like shipping lanes and the ports being empty, how the tariffs just started to hit the real economy this week. And, and I think what's going to be important now that we had a, a rebound with the change of expectations is OK, So what happens next?
Obviously first quarter GDP is backward looking. Today's employment number is backward looking. And I think a lot of people miss the point that it's a, it's just a mathematical model that usually gets revised as we go through time. If you look at, you know, employment numbers for the last eight years, every single month, there's been a significant revision.
When you look back now when the market is very, very quiet, people are just super focused on employment and thus becomes kind of like, you know, it's like the mean coins or like, oh, you know, Elon tweeted it. And so the thing moves like it doesn't change fundamentally anything. It's just something that people like to like gamble around. And so employment was better than expected.
The expectations are very low. Sorry, my thoughts are being a little bit naughty right now, but the expectations were low, right? If you think about, you know, your average monthly gain for like a healthy job economy, around 220,000 jobs per month. So even though we beat expectations, 133,000 is just not bad. I mean, 177 times, it's still still not to that level that you would expect from a healthy economy. Unemployment rate kind of sticky above 4%, which is still pretty
good. It's not, you know, recessionary, but we're just at a turning point here. I think where like really have to be looking at what's outperforming, what's driving the market. A lot of stuff that's driving the market right now, tech companies are companies that, you know, are defensive in nature, especially in a world of tariffs where, you know, there's software companies that don't really have that need for capital goods to come in from China.
And so, you know, you have a lot of money invested in the market that has to be parked somewhere. I think something from the crypto perspective are like, you know, all in either in Bitcoin or you're in Ethereum or you're in Solana or you're in Ethereum or you're in NFTS or you're in shit coins. But there's hundreds of thousands of asset managers out there that need to be like US equities, right? And they, they need to be like 85% invested in US equities. So what do you do? Right?
So you sell the stuff that might have an impact from, you know, some of the soft data that we're seeing. And again, look ahead where the economy will slow down, maybe like financials, real estate, you sell that and then you hide in stuff like Microsoft that just printed a great number that again, it's not really important things from China that has AAI
kind of like tailwind. And of course them being such an oversized component of the index, then you get this kind of stuff or like, oh, stocks are really good. And it I don't think it's a bull trap. It's just more consequence of the way like all these indices are put together and it can be a mirage. I think, you know, it's good, but it's just time to be like a little bit more alert as to what's really happening on the surface. Yeah, I think that makes a lot
of sense. So I had this like gut read with no data backing up that I just felt like fund managers, like wealth advisors, like they, they want to put capital in the market. So I feel like no one wants to be in cash. It's not a sexy thing to do. It's not what they're being paid to do. And I feel like every time we got any glimpse of positive news, everyone like we were saying that pump, right? It just felt like to me that that money was pouring in.
So kind of hearing that from you kind of does kind of confirm that idea for me. So I guess So what is your like? What's your outlook over the next couple quarters? And on one side, I want to be optimistic that, you know, if things really go South quickly in the economy, there's going to be some sort of like backstop stimulus or something like that. Or again, this is a like a self-inflicted one, right? This whole tariff thing, liberation date was a mistake.
And so you can take that away with one tweet and that should see the kind of reaction that we've seen so far. Having said that, right? If you continue to see this kind of just misunderstanding of reality with like the impact of tariffs, how they are a tax on the lower and middle income classes. If you're going to use that as an excuse to cut taxes on the wealthy, then definitely I think, you know, you're going to see potentially.
So for example, I was arguing with some friends earlier today on a group text. They're like, oh man, the stocks are up. You know, first like whatever 10 day win streak in like 20 years, I'm like, yeah, we went from 6:00 to 8:00 when we could have been at 12. So for me, it's like we could have been much higher already if they had just put in the pro growth policies that were promised in the election and not messed around with like trying to reset the global trade order all in one go.
Unfortunately, you know, we're we're not there yet. And so I think it's important to just kind of like keep in mind what could happen if those Chinese tariffs really start hitting. You know, we're, we're making, we'll talk about Meebits. We're like, we're making toys from ebits. And like every single day we get emails from like the toy association saying like, hey, these tariffs are literally going to take out half the industry. So what happens then, right.
If like, you know, we've pulled that back a little bit because like, we don't want to spend $500 on a thing that we can sell for 400 bucks because of tariffs. So then we're not putting in orders for the toy. You know, manufacturers and even though they might be in China, like the shipping companies, probably like FedEx or UPS, those are American. The retailers are obviously here, the employees of the retailers, obviously American. So that chain does take a little bit of time to play out.
So I think it's just time to be really vigilant and really understand that, you know, markets go up on a staircase, but down an elevator. And and that's what we see, right, like escalator up, elevator down where like they Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck. And then just like we saw Liberation Day. If nothing's really changed and it was just something like, you know, like announcements like that that, you know, are so ridiculous, they're probably not taken back then great bag of attorneys.
But if things are going to change materially where they're like, you know what, screw this, or like a bomb goes off somewhere, then that's a different conversation. Yeah, I think what's been interesting to me is a little bit about how the narrative has changed, right? It's like when this first started, there was a bit of this picture that you're going to be in for some near term pain while we correct some serious issues in the US economy and government
spending and the debt. And it feels like we're kind of walking some of that back. And like, of course, it's nice to see the markets go back up. And I think we have made some progress on some trade deals. On paper, I think you could argue the opposite side that the global relations have perhaps more and more than the gain we're getting. That's a longer conversation, but it does feel like it's changed a little bit. And I guess where I'm going with this, I'm curious for your perspective.
I've seen you, I've seen you be critical and, and that that's great. How would you rate Trump's first 100 days overall and then Part 2 specifically for crypto? And then we'll get into the crypto part of this conversation. I think overall, probably one of the worst first 100 days that we've had. I mean, the market's telling you that, right? Like we've had the worst start for an administration in decades or history. I don't even know.
So the the market being the largest voting waiting machine is just telling you that it's not me being political. It's just the market telling you that for crypto again, right. We thought it was going to be a super pro crypto administration like Bitcoin should be at 150 K. We're getting excited about potentially going back to 100K which we hit over Basel. I remember I was in Miami with, with my friends and when it hit,
we were like all super excited. So the fact that, you know, we're trying to inch back to 100K when we're already there, it doesn't feel like good to me. Now that's from the market price perspective. Obviously the regulation change, obviously, you know, releasing some of those prisoners that were, you know, crimes involving crypto that might not have been crimes is, is super positive. And so from that sense, I think from the regulatory perspective, really, really good.
Personally don't think that's the executive, that's more the people that have been, you know, in Congress. And so like pushing from the inside. Obviously, you know, places like stand with crypto really doing a good job at at at, you know, flexing their muscles. I think it's worrisome that, you know, it's almost pay to play now with World Liberty Financial. Like you see an announcement of somebody investing in World Liberty Financial and they either get a part in or they get
something taken away. There was just some news yesterday about like, I think it was Abu Dhabi, $2 billion investment into like Trump crypto. And then the next day the US is taking, you know, restrict restrictions off from, you know, chips being sold over there. And you're like, come on, man. Like because what's happening is in four years, if the Democrats come back in, like crypto's going to be Public Enemy #1 again. And and so that's a concern. We we don't have to go that way
to be pro crypto. But yeah, I'll just let the market speak for itself. I think you know for for the economy BAT for crypto not as good as expected. Interesting that you're saying not as good as expected because I, I just, I gave my ratings the other day and I, I think I, I gave them an A just because of the, the regulations. Well, OK, an asterisk a putting the meme coin launch aside. A -, I will give. OK, so I think that's fair.
And I do agree with you that some of his personal moves, the meme coin with World Liberty 5 now potentially with True Social doing its own token has muddied it quite a bit. And I am also, I think one of the biggest risks out there is. A political shift and the crypto becoming enemy #1 again driven because of some of his personal actions and A and a view as crypto equals trump and a crackdown I.
Mean we saw with Tesla, right? Like Tesla went from the being the darling on the left because of, you know, environmental concerns and electric vehicles. So now people are doing stupid shit to cars. Like it's insane. But that's the way humans are. And so that's, yeah, A for the regulation minus for the stuff around it. And, and again, I think because of the economy, we should be much higher on prices, both for stocks and crypto.
And so, you know, we can blame Biden all we want, but that's just not the way the world works. We'll see if Biden gets credit for this 20 day rally if if it closes here today. Well, now that we, we put it to crypto, Sergio, I'm curious. Take a look at the board now. You kind of outlined your, your macro thoughts. Like what? What jumping? What is jumping out to you like a are you? Are you making Yeah, I saw Amanda just join us. We were on recfishing a couple weeks ago.
And I think one of the recurring themes whenever I I, I get tapped into to SIM for, for OB when he's traveling is that Bitcoin is completely decoupled from the rest of the crypto market from the flow perspective, right? You're just talking about the Bitcoin ETFs.
Normally that, but then you have, you know, Sailor sitting there on the bed every so often, whereas the rest of the crypto market, it more closely resembles what we're seeing kind of like the tech stocks and some of the more frontier tech things. What stands out is just listen, I love ETH. I think we all do, even if people say they don't anymore. I think we all came through the NFT ecosystem. It holds a special place in our
hearts. It's great that we have new leadership at the foundation and they're like more focused on UX scaling the L1 and just the BLOB fee structure. But it is painful to see it, you know, at the same prices where it was back when we were fumbling into NFTS 4 years ago. So I think it's a good opportunity here. But I've been saying that for a while. Obviously it's been completely wrong. And so, you know, I've stopped saying it publicly not to
embarrass myself further. But the rest of the market, I think it's just going to be challenged. There's no, there's not a lot of demand from new capital that would look beyond, you know, your Bitcoin maybe like you're eating your Solana to really support the level of supply that we're seeing across the board, right? Like the other day there was what $69 million worth of investments announced into new L ones like give me a break.
Nobody uses anything. I mean, even like hardly ever anybody uses it anymore like gas, like .1. So, so the fact that, you know, we all know liquidity for this funds for this investments will come from your token launches it it's just a bit of a, it's a bit tragic because all of that is just going to take away liquidity from the market itself, right? It's going to go into the wrong
places. And so, yeah, for, for, for certain investors that get to buy tokens are a fraction of a penny, wait a year and dump it at $0.05. Of course you're going to keep on doing that. But for the average user that's coming in and say, hey, I used this test net or I use this like new chain, I like it a lot. It's fast, it gave me points. I'm going to buy some more of the tokens. And then it goes from $0.05 back
to 1 cent, right? We're going to keep on losing potential, you know, adopters and users. So I think it's a, it's a very negative flywheel that I hope it stops one day, but I I don't see it stopping. So what's my outlook? I think, you know, Bitcoin continues to outperform everything. I think depending on how you calculate BTC dominance, it will just continue to remain very elevated, especially as gold, you know, obviously it's come off, but it's, it's, you know,
multi tech historic highs. So that narrative of Bitcoin being digital gold, I think plays really well. And two, just ease of access, right? Like anybody can buy Bitcoin through the ETFs. You know, a whole new like you can't really put ether or Solana in retirement accounts, you can't put Bitcoin. So that opens up a lot of new different portfolios that the
asset can go into. Obviously we're hearing talk about, you know, other strategic reserves across the world from countries and so on. And that's all Bitcoin. So that, you know, with the couple, I think you'll bring a lot of frustration to people that expect that old cycle to come one day, you know, rolling down from Bitcoin into the rest of the stuff. Unless we get some like massive stimulus package, I don't see that happen.
We'll see pockets of, you know, excitement like we're seeing with Sui. I think they're doing things right. Obviously, Solana, you know, playing the game really well, you know, setting up loving effort in DC, hiring the ex head of the blockchain association to push for that. They're pushing hard into New
York with their new office. So like those kinds of plays, yes, but like the overall market, I think unless we get stimulus, it's just going to be a continuous just kind of like meltdown and and kind of very similar to so with IFTC 21, right, Like it was like everything was pumping and then only three things were pumping and then it was like at the very end, it was like apes other side and ape chain and then
everything just melted. And and that's my expectation for like the overall crypto spot Mark. Interesting, and that a little a little gloomy, but I I think fair. I just buy Bitcoin either in Salon, I call it a day. If you want to gamble, there's a lot of fun stuff to gamble on, but they're not investments. I think that's, I think that's the difference, right? I'm thinking long term misinvestment, change the world kind of thing. It will be the top 3 or 4.
You know, networks if you want to have fun, play a meme. That's different, right? That's like, you know, if you want to be a better quarterback or you're a high school senior, you're watching a lot of tape, you're not watching ESPN for like the line on the games this weekend. I think that's the difference, right? You either want to be a good investor, long term technologist, or you want to be a good short term trader, play the narratives, understand like meme cycles and all that stuff.
And those are two very, very different fields. Same thing happens in traditional finance of the Warren Buffett's of the world, right? Like there was a very stupid headline going around like, oh, Warren Buffett owns 5% of all treasuries. And it's idiotic. Like if you do not know Warren Buffett's business model, of course you're like, Oh my God, you think it's like that he owns treasuries.
No, he owns one of the largest insurance groups in the world and they have to stash the cash somewhere and they own treasuries, period. Like that's where you, yes, you know, it's risk free rate, but his business over the last 50 years have been building like undervalue companies with those insurance funds and just leveraging that over and over
again, right. Versus somebody like, you know, the guys that run, you know, Brevan Howard and Millennium and all those hedge funds that are really more looking for, you know, a different kind of play that used to leverage derivatives and so on. And and and and there's room for everybody to my point. And so market wise by the big guys, if you're thinking long term, you want to sleep at night, you have a nine to five. You don't want to be worried about, you know, sitting on pump fun.
Or or boot fun, which we'll get to here. Or the new one? Yeah, great. Great advice. The the benefit to the listeners of this show is on a daily basis they get they get Mando's macro outlook. And. Then they go, they get to go venture down the risk curve with me and all. The. Did you make a did you make a coin yesterday, Tyler? Not yet, but it's on my To Do List for today. I do think I am going to launch one. Yeah, why not? I think the upside, the upside
is just too strong. You know, it'll come with all the disclaimers. I'm not going to run it like a project. Don't expect you know me to run this like Mandarin, Epic. It's going to be a collectible NFADYOR. It's so fucking hilarious, like I actually have tried to tried to do this for the last year. Now everyone's just launched 1. And then rugged it like literally insta rug from like the top 300 kols in the space. Yeah, ridiculous. Are you going to do another one? No. No, to get your I'm.
Done. I'm done. Yeah, very fair. We'll we'll see. I haven't clicked the the launch button just yet, but I'm in that 400,000 token tier and of course I don't expect that boop token to be quite as high in 20 to 30 days as it is now, but it's a decent little AirDrop, so enough to to consider the the decision here. It's trading at 350 million,
still 335 cents. I'll be honest, when it was straight down yesterday and the sentiment all over the timeline was very negative, I thought it was already over. But it seems like they flipped the script overnight. I think they got the platform back working and then Dingling rolled in with 1000 soul and said I'm going to buy some of these tokens. That was enough to help shift things. And then their incentives are
good. Like this does not mean that good good meme coins are going to come out of this ecosystem, but the incentives are there. So every day, 1,000,000 tokens are given out to create to creators and holders of tokens that graduate. That's that's. A good thing, it feels. It feels like it's rare all over again. It's like cool tokenomics that that will fizzle out in two few months, right? Yeah. Remember the looks of that job Which? Is a long time well.
Free money's free money though, if you can get it. Of course. So I think they are, I think they're going to have some success. Well, again, I'm curious for your thoughts on the launch. Sorry, we've been, we've been talking about this a little bit incentivizing Kols to launch coins that they don't want, like an action that they don't want to take. And they're just going to say, but do not buy in the tagline of the coin or even name it, do not buy.
What's the point of that? You know, I don't know, I've grappled with it and like initially upon launch, I went back and forth just a little bit, but ultimately I, I, I welcome the potential innovation and I definitely like champion people trying to do new things. I'm all for that. And I think it's great that they incentivize people to take the actions that they want them to take, right? They wanted people to launch tokens.
They want people to buy tokens, so they're incentivizing them to do so. That makes a lot of sense to me. What makes less sense to me is just the fact that the people themselves don't want to do so. And it became so loud on the timeline that nobody wanted to do so. And you created like this instant negative sentiment as you, as you mentioned, that permeated my timeline. I would imagine almost everybody's timeline. I did not see many positive takes yesterday.
Of course, getting the platform up and running is a great first start to to combat that, but I actually like, I haven't been on too much this morning just yet. Like where have you noticed a a sentiment shift this morning, Tyler? Or or not I think. So the. Again. The public started to work and I think more people launch tokens and then like they're starting to have some winners. So like this Bupa token is now the top performer. It's at 7.5 million market cap.
I think that's higher than any of Radium's launch lab tokens went. So they've already outperformed Radium's launch lab. Well, money talks. So yeah, people are making money. This, I would imagine sentiment shifts just a little bit and people are feeling a little bit better about things. But I, I think I'm with Mando at this point. I mean, the sustainability. I just, I don't know, I would like to see something work. Of course, I'm not rooting
against boop dot fund. I'm just leery of and wary of, you know, something like this having happened many times in the past and not having succeeded so. Yeah, I think being wary is the correct, the correct emotion slash reaction. We'll, we'll see. I think they'll continue to get interaction through this
weekend. One item, a note with all the focus on boop yesterday, and perhaps that was their goal, perhaps getting the KO LS to do all this was just a massive attention event and they got it. They they nailed the attention event. That's undeniable. I think some of the the hotter new coins of the day were were still launched on Pom pom. So I think there's still going to be a little bit of this is forced for farming slash air drops versus like more true or organic means are going to be
perhaps elsewhere. So what we will see, man, I know you you join us late. What we're going to get to a conversation with with Sergito about me bits and that tease here in a in a few minutes. But I'm curious, any big macro topics that jumped out to you from the day we had the Sailor news? Yeah, the selling new thing is the big one, like the fact that he says it's going to be debt as well. So is it debt or is it not? Because like, that's what's confusing to me.
Have you had a chance to dig in? I just read what he wrote, which is 42 billion of equity, 42 billion of fixed income, right? That's what he wrote. The I mean Sailor is a is from a financial background like I would assume he means 82 billion. Those are not the two, they are not the two same things. Even if you were to say it like that for convert, it wouldn't make sense. So I don't know. But if it's fixed income as debt and that that would worry me. Yeah.
As it says in October, the company in October they said they plan to raise 42 and he's saying he's doubling it. So he is saying it's. So again, if your friend said I'm going to raise $42 billion of debt to buy Bitcoin, would you tell him that's a good idea or not? He already, he still has. I was just writing this up the other day. He still has like 20 billion worth of the strike or STRK stuff in allowance and issuance as well. So there's ammo there. Right. But like, there's ammo.
He fired a shelf. It's like if I fired a shelf, I want to raise 2020, $1 billion. He just said that like we may do this. So it's not ammo unless the market actually wants to buy that security from him, right? Right. So, yeah, he has some, he has some ammo on the shelf that he's filed for, but who knows, Like, and I continue to think that if he wants, if he, if he wants to raise $82 billion to buy Bitcoin, I think he's going to
need to raise debt. I don't think equity holder is going to give him $82 billion to buy Bitcoin. And that's what raised, and that's where this gets riskier. Yeah. I continue to think that that that adds an element of liquidation risk to what he's going to do. Like if I was a micro strategy equity holder, I would just tell him to stop. I've said this so many times, he's got enough. The benefit for you of him continuing to do this, I think is very limited. It's very marginal at this
stage. And I think he just wants to buy as much Bitcoin as he had. It's like, it's like one man's maniacal dream to buy, own as much Bitcoin. And if you want to buy $82 billion of Bitcoin, you know, there's a chance that like at some stage if Bitcoin was to drop 50% and he has fixed income securities with maturities around them or or covenant or whatever like that, this could get nasty. I mean, so you 2 will know this
very, very well. I believe he's AB rated credit already micro strategy, I think maybe B plus or B minus. But but if he was to raise $42 billion of debt, this is going to be like triple C all over it. And, and triple C would be a high, you know, debt markets would assume that he there's a good chance that he would get liquid in. Is it like probably like a 14 percent, 16%? Right. This is what I mean. It's like this could get nasty if he wants to try and do that.
So I like, I like Sailor. I think he's played a blinder. I think he should stop. Yeah. Yeah, I think it very, very fair. And I'll continue just to point in on this like when you read the article that he shares in the tweet, he says 442,000,000 in fixed income. So debt you're spot on. But for whatever reason in their, their report, there is no mention of that. And then like in, in their summary, they only point to the common, the equity offering, which is the, the safer piece of this.
So maybe it's something he's going to keep up his sleeve. I think our, our best hope is that he's he's going to keep it up his sleeve as a potential option, but he doesn't execute it, I guess, and just continues to, to, to, to go the the equity. Offering if he buys with equity I don't care. Like keep doing it. It's just an ETF and and yeah, it trades with a premium.
If I was an equity holder, because it's trades at a premium right now, I might not be that happy about it because you're going to keep on diluting that premium. But but if you advise it with debt, I think everyone should worry. Very fair. Well, well, folks, we're going to get to our conversation with Sergito. The code for today for those heat spins is boop. Rafflebot code is boop. So we'll get to those probably here in about 10-15 minutes.
Well, Sergito, one of the reasons we wanted to be coming on the macro conversation was, was fantastic for. So thanks for jumping in on that. I feel like there's been some, some big news in the me bit streets. Before we get into the, the, the breaking news though, let's maybe this is our first chance that we've had to, to really talk at least on air since the, the, the takeover since the, the acquisition. Oh man, 78 days ago on Valentine's Day.
Wow, we're going to be getting your first 100 days here soon. Oh. God, I hope they're a little bit better than what we've seen somewhere else. Tell I'm sure you've said this a handful of times, but for some of our listeners, we haven't heard it. So why? Why'd you, why'd you want to take over me bits? Two reasons.
First of all, I asked everybody who's followed me on Mock Me for liking me bits over every other collection and you're probably right investment wise over the last four years, you know, you were definitely right. Market wise. I love the ME bits. I think they are an incredible just body of artwork from the premier artists, you know, the legendary larva labs who kind of created this whole category, not once, just with punks spying the ERC 721 standard.
Obviously almost every PFT collection is a derivative of punk trades. Or they did it again with Autoglyphs a few years later, which, you know, spawned the generative, you know, tokenized generative art movement. And obviously snow for a big early punk claimer always credits Larva Labs with inspiration for art blocks and everything that's come after that. So I think they did it again in 21 with Meebits.
These are digital sculptures. They unlike every other collection from that year, there were just layers on like a Python script. The Mebits are created from voxels or the algorithm really had to work to put all the traits together and they include a lot of that technology that and and concepts that develop for punks and cliffs into this. For example, there on screen you have a couple of medias wearing
camel print pants. Now they use a generative algorithm to create the camel print so that No2 medias are wearing the exact same print when they're wearing camel. So every single camel you know trait is unique. You have stuff like, you know, the hoodie UPS that you have there on screen. One just traded this morning. I think it was that one obviously a nod to hoodie punks. And and it's just, you know, 20,000 little characters running
around the metaverse. Their bet was that we will live in a digital future much more immersive, you know, spaces online. Obviously that has not really materialized. I do think we're going to get there. And so you know, these are you look at lava labs body of work. It's punks as kind of like their paintings, glyphs as their computer art and then meave it as their digital sculptures. And and punks are in museums. Obviously the you know, the Pompey do the ICA.
The Toledo Museum just announced a new exposition coming up here in the next month or two with punks. Glyphs are at the Whitney. Glyphs are in other museums as well. And then I I would expect that given that legacy and and just to show the completeness of the body of work of of larval lapse themselves, me that's belong in that conversation. So one, I think they're incredibly cute. They're good looking. I love the human body that just you know, we're by nature very
much in love with humanity. You look at art history throughout, you know, our whole existence. You know, the majority of the subjects of the piece of art are human bodies, human faces and so on, right from caveman all the way to to where we are today with like AI bots and the like. So that was kind of like the the why I love me bits.
The reason why I decided to go ahead with with the transaction and putting, you know, the company together is just I think NFT network, NFT projects communities are incredible distribution networks, their next generation distribution network. We saw it with, you know, apes and Penguins and so many of the others where you have this global fanbase of people that are, you know, tech forward that are really looking to just kind of integrate this new technology
into their lifestyle. I mean, we're all here on screen because of NFTS pretty much. I mean, I don't know your background, but I'm assuming it's around right there. Obviously, Amanda and I were both sitting on trading desks at Barclays, and we're now here because of NFTS. And Tyler, you know, you're also here because of NFTS.
And so I think that there's an incredible opportunity to really take this, you know, properties and bootstrap them to create incredible distribution network companies.
And I'm not talking about selling hoodies and hats and so on, but really being able to innovate with like new types of financial products and so on. And so for me, it was the perfect marriage between a community, a project that I adore that I think has really high intrinsic value because of the artists and the provenance, but also, you know, 20,000 tokens out there with an engaged, you know, fanbase.
We have 6400 wallets that hold them and it'll be some of the largest names in the space, have a ton of mediates. You know, Snow Fro being the largest meat collector that has one of every single type of meat. It's only one only collection in the world. So a lot of people don't know that, but it's there. And I think people that understand Larba kind of have that same mentality. Just put the meat, it's away and
one day we'll get there. And so so it was that combo and then the opportunity came about too, right? Like there's a lot of things that we want to do, but you know, sometimes it's not possible. But the opportunity came about in December and so I jumped on it. Well, we we're happy that that you jumped on it and people may not notice. I have a long story history with me miss myself. I had quite the collection back in 2021 and a nice nice hoodies suits pig. No, no elephants or aliens.
Collection has dwindled since then, but I'll be making my trumpet return, don't worry. Next question Sergito. So you bought or you acquired the project? What's the the 1st 90 day plan like? What are you focused on out of the gate? Yeah, so we we published, you know, our four pillar plan, you know, very innovative name. It's just four things that the company, it's four of us in the company.
It's myself, it's Bailey who's our creative director, Token Jogler, who's our head of tech and then Bojangle guys, our head of community and OPS, all very much entrenched community members since day one. And and we've just been obsessed with needed. So we're just doing right now what you know, we hoped Mevitz would have done in the past. And no shame to you. I was one of our partners on the
cap table to meet the company. I think they had very ambitious plans for a lot of the things they wanted to do in 22 and the market turned on them. And so obviously you're a company, you have to survive the bandwidth and resourcing, you know, had to be focused on, on their main properties, which is board aid on the other side and supporting aid chain.
But for us, it's just stuff like, like I said, 4 pillars, the first one's art and Providence really bringing to surface that incredible background that Meetbits have. You know, we're doing a birthday celebration with Fellowship and NOPAR. It's the 4th anniversary of Meetbits tomorrow. So be on the lookout for that. We're going to continue to just push on supporting artists with collection. Again, incredible distribution
network. How do we use that to help emerging artists reach new collectors? The second thing is fun utility. Looking at what projects did really well and maybe not so well over the last four years, taking the best of that and using it to make holding a move it just a fun experience. Maybe you're in it for the art, but you also want to have fun. You want to have online activations, you want to have physical activations, you'll
have cool merch. So we did an integration with Player 0, which will launch on May 5th. That's Monday, where all 20,000 move it will be integrated to all the Player 0 games. So for the first time ever, you know that kind of like dream that we all had in 21 of buying an NFT and being able to use it in a game. That's happening with Mevit and Player 0 on Monday. So you connect your wallet and you have your Mevit available to be played. They have like 4 or five games
right now. And there's a lot more games coming on the pipeline. So it's really, really cool that we're able to deliver that as far as our fun utility pillar here within the 1st 100 days. The next one is tech innovation. Obviously, you know, crypto, NFTS, blockchain, it's all frontier tech. We're the bleeding edge of it and we want to continue pushing. It's also a nod to the
provenance of larval apps. Obviously, Matt and John, even before NFTS, right, they were like Google and Android developers are always pushing the envelope with what could be done with technology. And so we want need it to be a conduit for that. So we announced a really cool partnership with Think Agents. They're going to be using need it as like the body of your AI agent.
We provided 10 me bits that can be used, the models of the user hours that can be used for people to, you know, talk to to their agent. And if you have a me bit, connect your wallet and then you can interact directly with it, which I think it's really, really cool. And we have a couple of other things coming on the AI front. Then lastly, the last pillar is community first, as I mentioned before, the four of us, big members of the community, we
want to be there. We want to help, you know, build together, win together, supporting people that want to build their amoebits artist, whether that's like creators, we have windows, a punk as well, create this incredible app called Meepcamp. So it's meep.com. It's a progressive web app. You can just access it on your phone and you can make GIFs with your Meebid. You can make videos with your Meebid. My nieces, they have amoebid each.
They love playing with it. They always want to get on the iPad and play with them even. And so stuff like that just really, you know, building for the community because that's
what we're here for. I like the sounds of the plan and you clearly have been busy and fast to work, so I'd love seeing all these updates start to come out, maybe just a minute or two left because I know we got to get to our eat spins before we wrap things up. But how are you feeling about the broader MFT market seeing some signs of life, but then there's there's also been like has it been token driven? So kind of how are you feeling about the broader market here?
I'm I'm feeling good. I think obviously we had, you know, big art sales recently. I think people try to pretend that technology is going to strip away human nature when reality, what technology does actually enhances human nature, right? So greed, fear, power loss, all of that is enhanced by technology. So technology is a great democratizer, but doesn't change the way who we are. And so, yeah, we'll continue to see, you know, top parties continue to have top sales, top
projects continue to evolve. And then, you know, some of the tales should really start to dwindle. But I think it's a good time to build for NFTS, especially with Disney Rainier interest from the Ethereum Foundation to make the the, the chain more UX friendly, more consumer friendly.
You know, it's no secret, as much as I love a couple of the NFT communities that I am part of in Solana, you know, they never really hit the prominence that NFT communities on ETH hit, even while Solana was, you know, much higher last year. And I'm a problematic lad. I have three of them. I love them. I love that community, but they never were able to like step outside that little bubble, whereas ETH projects and ETH artists have.
So I think again, cyclical, you know, it's frontier tech, but as, as as long as people continue to innovate and we have founders and leaders and collectors and community members who want to push them to look forward, I think we'll be fine. And it just, you know, as long as people don't like also get over their skis, right? Don't spend like half $1,000,000 on a JPG just because you think you can sell for 750,000 in a month. We'll be fine.
Be more like Mando. Buy them for $400.00 and sell them for $400 million three years later. That's a better. That's a better return right there. Final question, I'd love to talk about the Bitcoin punk spread on this show. Bitcoin punk spread. Everyone right now, which is going to outperform for the rest of this year. I think for the rest of the year you're going to see punks outperform. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
At the end of the day, we just talked about how arts just started to heat up. Obviously punks have been on a heater recently in ether terms, but not really in dollar terms because ether performs. I think the long term base price for punks is like $70,000 and we're, you know, just right about there. So, so I would expect punks to, you know, like triple from here to your end.
There's only 10,000 of them and all you need is somebody to come in like what happened in 21. You want to deploy a couple $1,000,000, which is nothing in the greater scheme of things. And the thesis of, you know, people make money in Krypton by a punk continues to play out. You know, I handle the, I, the admin for the punk community on Telegram. I mean, you bought a punk after having an incredible run with coins over the last, you know, year.
And so those punks are being put away and, and they're not going back to market. So, so yeah, there's a lot more convexity to punks than there is to Bitcoin. And and I like them both, but I I think punks outperform. Oh, I like that, as someone who's been trying to tout the punk side of that ratio for a while. We're down about 20%, but still a lot of time on the clock. Look at this board. This is the the thinnest of 50 I think I've ever. I mean, that's bad.
Yeah, I haven't. Been looking the market too much lately, to be honest, because I've just been really busy with Nevis. But it used to be I wake up every day and check the I know Farrak and I, when we were like, you know, starting to talk about punks back in the day. Every single day I'll be checking the the market. And it's mostly like a discovery of like, oh, this is a really cool trade or a cool combination rather than the price. But yeah, it doesn't take long. They're great, You know,
collateral. I borrow against some of my palms. Use that to buy Bitcoin. So I double. The double, you know, kind of like bet there, yeah. And it's a great community, as you've seen. Well. I appreciate your insights on NFTS, me bets, and macro of course. I guess just anything you want to leave our listeners with before we go to the eat spends. Anything they need to be looking out for? Yeah, no, I mean, obviously we'd love to have people come and just look at what we're doing with medias.
If it resonates, you know, submit the, I'm happy to chat through the plans. I think we have not had a lot of the catalysts that other projects have had. So I think even from that perspective, and though I'm not advocating for a financial investment, I do think that, you know, there's a lot to like when it comes to Nevis. And now there's a fully dedicated team. We have one confirmation, you know, there are investors, you know, helping us push the space forward.
So I'm really excited for it. So well, welcome everybody. Just to take a look. They're not the Mevis from 21 anymore. Is this a you know Mevis 2 point O? Mevis 2 point O is a great way to end it. Well, Sergio, it's great to catch up. Thank you for having me.