This Month in German, Swiss, and Austrian (GSA) Startups - May 2024 | Startuprad.io - podcast episode cover

This Month in German, Swiss, and Austrian (GSA) Startups - May 2024 | Startuprad.io

May 23, 202435 min
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Episode description

Welcome to our May 2024 wrap-up, delivering vital news from the startup and tech entrepreneurship scenes in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland—all in 30 minutes or less! 🎧

Join Chris from New York City and Joe from Frankfurt as they bring you the latest updates in the GSA region. Due to Whit Monday and travel plans, this news cut is from May 16th. Any news not covered today will be included in our next wrap-up.

#### Schedule:

- Next Episode: June 27th

- Summer Wrap-Up: September 2nd (Labor Day)

We'll have a lighter summer program, possibly with more frequent updates, based on listener requests.

#### Highlights:

The startup scene is roaring back in GSA, with large investments and early-stage innovations. Grab a drink and a snack—this episode is packed with positive news and is longer than usual.

- New VC Funds Raised: Over $7.5 billion

- Germany's Air Taxi Dilemma: Lilium and Volocopter are at a crossroads, with France offering subsidies while Germany debates state support.

- Amazon's €7.8 Billion Investment: Development of a purely European cloud storage infrastructure in Brandenburg.

- WeFox Challenges: Valuation setbacks amid growth challenges.

- Alzheimer's Research Boost: Takeda and AC Immune's $2 billion partnership.

- Biontech's Resilience: Despite Q1 losses, Biontech advances its oncology pipeline and prepares for a renewed push in COVID vaccine demand.

For detailed news and updates, visit our [blog](https://startuprad.io/blog) with all the latest stories. Interested in collaborations or advertising opportunities? [Storefront](https://workspace.passionfroot.me/startupradio).

Don't forget to subscribe on Spotify and Apple Podcasts to stay updated with the latest news from the GSA startup scene!

---

Detailed Topics:

1. Will German Air Taxis Fly?

Germany debates support for air taxi startups Lilium and Volocopter, while France offers subsidies. Lilium is in advanced talks with the French government for expansion plans and potential financial aid. [Read more](https://buff.ly/3UBNCHS).

2. Amazon's Investment in Brandenburg:

Amazon's €7.8 billion investment in Brandenburg to develop purely European storage capacities highlights its commitment to data sovereignty. [Read more](https://buff.ly/3V1PJpN).

3. WeFox Valuation Takes a Hit:

WeFox faces valuation woes amid growth challenges, impacting its once promising trajectory in insurtech. [Read more](https://buff.ly/3UIByES).

4. Alzheimer's Research Collaboration:

Takeda teams up with Swiss firm AC Immune in a deal potentially exceeding $2 billion to fight Alzheimer's. [Read more](https://buff.ly/4dJN5wk).

5. Biontech's Oncology Advances:

Despite significant Q1 losses, Biontech continues to advance its oncology pipeline and prepares for a renewed push in COVID vaccine demand. [Read more](https://buff.ly/3wDhn33).

Transcript

Welcome to Startupradio rad dot io, your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German Startupradio with news, interviews, and live events. Hello, and welcome, everybody. This is Joe from start up rate dot aero, your Startupradio podcast and YouTube blog from Germany, bringing you to all the May 2024 news wrap up this month in GSA startups. Of course, again, with Chris in New York. Hey. How you doing, man? Hey. Yeah. I'm doing fine. It's, the

first day of, like, really warm weather, it feels. So we had, like, 85 degrees, 30 degree 30 degrees Celsius. So getting ready for summer here. Uh-oh. We did here in Germany have a lot of problems with heavy rainfall, especially in Saarland where, where a lot of, where a lot of damage was done by, little creeks that became huge rivers because, due to a lot of rainfall in in a very,

very short amount of time. That said, welcome to our May 2024 wrap up with vital news from the start up and tech entrepreneurship scene in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. This time, we likely not make it in 30 minutes or less, but we'll nonetheless try. Our Startupradio is recorded with Chris back in New York City, and I'm in Frankfurt. Today is May 16th. Due to wood Monday and travel plans, we had to move our

schedule a little bit around. But as always, all news relevant not yet included will be part of our next news wrap up. Our schedule. We will have another news episode coming up on June 27th. Then we will be back with a summer wrap up published on Labor Day, September 2nd. We already know, when we will record this in August. In between, we'll have a bit lighter summer program but we're not sure yet how it will look. We do have a lot

of requests. So we may do more publications than every other week, like we have done in the past for July August. So there were no weekly publication, but every other week. And we started again with the StartupRadio on Labor Day. Chris, you always seem to be a highlights guy.

Yeah. And this month around, it's actually is or fits like a highlight section because when we did the research, it turned out that the StartupRadio scene in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria is actually in a pretty good mood and state of mind, and they seem to be really roaring back. So we see more large investments. We also see

more signs of life in very early stage investments. So give looking at the rest of the episode, I would say pour yourself your favorite drink, get a snack, because this will be a lot of positive news this time around and a bit longer than normal. And it can also be an adult beverage. Adult. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Day drinking for the win. So for this, news wrap up alone, we found new VC funds raised more than 7,500,000,000 US dollars.

One of the top news we're gonna look into is, Germany really being at a crossroads with, pioneering air taxi Startupradio. One category that we look into here quite often, Lilium and Volocopter in that case. Domestic debate over those, companies are a lot about state support, and, Germany is questioning whether they should subsidize these companies. But France is stepping in, and they extend a welcoming hand with offers of subsidies and guarantees.

Lilium is in advanced talks with the French government, and, we will have a bit of a look, there. Yes. Amazon's bought 7.8 €1,000,000,000 investment in Brandenburg to develop a purely European cloud storage infrastructure, underscores its unwavering commitment to data sovereignty even amidst leadership changes at AWS. We may add that Brandenburg is the is the state surrounding Berlin. Meanwhile, Wefox, once a beacon of insurtech innovation, faces valuation setbacks amid growth challenges.

At on a brighter note, the fight against Alzheimer's get a substantial boost at Takeda Partners, with Swiss firm AC Immune in a deal potentially exceeding 2,000,000,000 US dollars despite significant q one losses and a dip in stock valuation, bio and tech remains resolute advancing its oncology pipeline and preparing for a renewed push in COVID vaccine demand later this year. Guys,

let's talk startups. As always, Eos strongly recommended to tune into our Internet radio station, which will also soon get a new, website. More than a 100000 people are listening, a month. And you can get your our content to your inbox with our sub stack or, Telegram newsletter. Of course, you can find all our channels on Linktree, our enabler. This recording is supported by HTII and the Enterprise Europe Network, Hessen. This recording was made possible by HTI and the Enterprise

Europe Network, Hessen. These organizations have made tremendous contributions to helping start up businesses succeed and thrive, providing a range of services from helping to find grants to ongoing partnerships. By taking advantage of these resources, start up companies can network and develop innovative strategies for success on the international stage. The dedicated support of HDIA and the EEN Essent is paramount in providing StartupRadio businesses with the tools for lasting success.

Look for our dedicated sub podcast in partnership with them called Tech Startups Germany. Of course, you could find it on our Linktree. Chris, you wanna handle some of the top news? Yes. And there I mean, we started I started talking about it a bit already. We see, pretty lengthy and intense discussion about the topic of

air taxis. So in Germany, especially in southern Germany, Bavarian, but in Wurttemberg, politicians really wonder how much they should subsidize, this industry, specifically companies like Lilium and Volocopter, while at the same time, France seems to be extending a bit of a warmer hand in terms of subsidies

and guarantees. Especially Lilium seems to be in advanced talks with the French government for expansion plans and potential financial aid even though, the possible involvement at the Olympic Games in Paris where they were discussing about flight taxis was a bit trimmed down.

We have a lot of additional resources about this in our show notes where, we will talk where you can read more about Volocopter at the Olympics, where you can read more about how Volocopter threatens to move the company from Germany to a foreign country, where you can see that China and the US are actually doing better than Germany right now. And, yeah. So the big question about all of this, I guess, is how big can this actually be? I think compared to 3, 4, 5 years ago, the

mood in the market also kind of shifted for this. And the question because also we see that a lot of especially the autonomous driving topics are toned down. Like, Apple nixed their plan for a car. Daimler Daimler said that they are not gonna pursue anymore an autonomously driven truck for now. So yeah. And and a lot of the, innovation and Startupradio novelties in the transportation field seem to be a bit

on the, like, waning side, I would say. So we will see how it goes with the air taxi and aviation companies. Moving on from that, Amazon, as you already hinted at, is going to invest more than €7,500,000,000 in Brandenburg, specifically their cloud division, who which wants to invest €7,800,000,000, in order to establish a a purely European to establish purely European storage capacities.

Even though their current chief, AWS, even though their current chief departed, AWS remains committed to building a sovereign, European cloud. Wefox valuation took a hit. The investor devalued the stake in, Wefox. Once, Wefox was hailed as a revolutionize as a revolutionary insurance, but now, they feel some of the woes amid growth challenges. I feel a lot of this today is, like, badly bad for a German. We, fucks, revolution.

Anyway, then, the Swiss firm AC gets a 100,000,000 and up to 2,000,000,000 US dollars to fight Alzheimer's disease, which is really big news in Alzheimer's research. It's a Japanese company, Takeda, that teams up with the Swiss firm, AC Immune, in a $1,000,000,000 deal to tackle the disease. The upfront payment is a $100,000,000, and the potential for the deal is to soar between $2,000,000,000. More about that in the show notes. And, now you also got more information about in

about the health sector. You know what's really crazy about this? If you see the 2,000,000,000, actually 100,000,000 US dollar looks like a small sum, but it isn't. Far from it. Talking about bio and tech. Bio and tech advances cancer drug development, amid 380,000,000 loss. Facing significant research costs and a decline in revenues from the COVID area, BioNTech founders began this year with loss. Despite this, BioNTech remains committed to its annual

objectives or bite with the stock under pressure. The shattered COVID 19 business and increased research costs led the Mindspace Biotech Company to incur a loss in the Q1, which was 315,000,000 compared with a profit of over 400,000,000 in a year ago. Tech stock is down. But nonetheless, they are looking to generate around 90% of its annual revenue in the final months of 2024 due to the seasonal demand for COVID

vaccines. Their research costs surge by 50%, but, you don't need to fear, when they have more than 300,000,000 loss, they're sitting on a 16 1,000,000,000. Yes. Billion with a b financial caution. So everything should be great. By the way, our new website is live. It took me quite a lot of time and work, but nonetheless, it is there. Stop by and leave us feedback. The little disclaimer, not all blog posts are moved there yet,

but we will do this in the future. Plus not all the plays for the sub podcasts works, work that is due to, some restrictions of the, toolbox we're using to, put together the website. Nonetheless, we'll find a solution for that as well. If you're looking to partner with us, you see you will find our storefront at passionfruit.meforward/startupradio, Joe word. And now I'm handing over to the

ecosystem to Chris again. Yes. And in the ecosystem, it's basically where we zoom in in our show, regarding information and news that affect the wider Startupradio landscape. So let's start on a global level, where we see a likely good sign for all VC investors globally. Japan's Japan's SoftBank Group reports a quarterly profit turnaround, signaling resilience in the face of challenges. Despite investment loss, the tech investor remains pivotal in the German Startupradio

as well. More about that in the show notes. Zooming in on Europe where we see that government funding emerged as a major player in European VC funding in 2023, doubling its share over the previous year. Amid geopolitical tensions, Europe strengthens its tech sovereignty with sizable investments in AI, quantum and biotech, and in climate tech. And we've got some insights from PitchBook's q 1 2024 European venture report that revealed a mixed q one with robust

deal activity and some fundraising resilience. Early stage dominance persist, but exits showed some weakness. In the German StartupRadio ecosystem, we see that in April, despite the prevailing investment turn down, we witnessed 12 double digit or triple digit $1,000,000 investments in the country, totaling around €440,000,000. Among them are ventures like Flink, Palua, Mark Pilot, Smart Reporting, Finmit, and Proxima

Fusion. Despite several ongoing crises, numerous StartupRadio, scale ups, and grown ups managed to secure substantial funding from well known entities to under the radar gems. We got a couple of the recent top funding runs rounds in the show notes. Then German startups also expect more from the EU, like unified funding, better access to venture capital, and a true single market. We see that European Digital Associations unite to call for a reboot of the EU StartupRadio

policy. Background for that also in the show notes. And we got good news from Germany. We often look at it, the e for business climate index, basically a survey, a regular survey among business leaders. It rose to 89.4 points in April, marking the 3rd consecutive increase. Sentiment is up as companies express satisfaction with the current business and brighter expectations. German BC sentiment also shows signs of recovery in, q 1 2024 bouncing back from q from a q

4 slump of the past year. Business expectations and IPO climate warming, but entry IPO business expectation in the IPO climate are warming, but entry valuation satisfaction nosedives. Europe's quantum startups are thriving amidst global challenges in the quantum computing race. They attracted €336,000,000 in investments in 2023, which is, an increase of 47%. And we got news from Bundest minister Robert Harbeck, economy, secretary for for the, for business

and, for the economy. The StartupRadio advisory board gets a makeover with a smaller and more flexible format called the startup circle. More about that approach is in the show notes. And, we got a report that looks at the German workforce that says more than half of all overtime hours in Germany in the past year were unpaid. All of that, obviously, a sig a concerning trend in work life balance. Employees altogether locked a staggering 1,300,000,000 extra hours out of which 775,000,000

went without pay apparently. And, we have a study about where about StartupRadio founders and the, the people that get to, start startups in Germany from the Berthoud Mann Foundation, and they found out that 6 in 10 founders come from, academic households. So, are not first generation college kids. And that, obviously, this level of education is also shaping the entrepreneurial journey, and, parental background influences not only their networks, but also their mindsets, says the study.

We have the full study in the show notes and also some coverage from Zeatrutch exciting about that. After this look at the whole ecosystem, we are now gonna look at some of the biggest German Startupradio hubs. And since we're starting with Frankfurt, I'll hand it over back to you. Thank you very much. Of course, we tend to highlight here some hidden gems and cities of general start up interest. We start with my Joe

turf Frankfurt, Rhein Main. Taylor acquires Credit Shelf in a quest to dominate your to dominate European Menninger. We do have an interview with Credit Shelf where they announced a 100,000,000 investment led by Goldman Sachs. Unfortunately, that never came true because they, they had problems with an existing investor chipping in the first loss piece. And that's why they went almost belly up and got rescued by

be acquired by Taylor. Evuka, with the German headquarter in Frankfurt, secures £270,000,000 in debt funding to bolster SME Menninger supported by Citibank and Insight Investment. The lender responds to rising demand from small businesses. Of course, read more in our show notes. Beautiful city of Heidelberg. Discover over 20 startups from Heidelberg that are making waves from AI powerhouse, Alabalfa, to rising stars like Pareto's, Fresh Taste, and in Stavord, the

city's buzzing with innovation. Check out the full list in the show notes. Aachen's SILEB, a sustainable battery recycling firm, just secured 55,000,000 in series a funding led by World Fund and Porsche Ventures with support from Bosch Ventures and more. Essen, German vertical farming StartupRadio Greens, small v, big g, secures a coveted spot among the top 500 food tech companies worldwide for 2023. Their innovative use of AI technology in food production earns them this recognition.

And I thought vertical farming was dead. I'm surprised. And Chris is almost in his home turf in a town I've never heard from again. Chris, can can you help me out where this city is and why it's so beautiful? I was fighting to take this over. So we are looking, I I think, for the first time ever, obviously, at Neustadt am Coche. Neustadt am Coche is a small town close to Heilbron, close to Stuttgart, and I actually have friends there who run one of the most charming coworking and event

spaces. So if you ever need an event space in Neustadt am Kocha, be sure to check out Atelier Fox. But what we are, also looking at today is that there is another company there that's writing headlines, and, to be more precise, they are breaking ground in space tech. It's called High Impulse, high h y impulse. And they launched a rocket powered by Candle wax hybrid propulsion. Propulsion. Oh god. I could never be an engineer because I

can't say the words. Marking a milestone for private space ventures. 100 Splat German Business and Economics Newspaper wrote a lot about this. That's it about Germany, though. Let's look at Austria, my specialty. Fiskars Austria filed for insolvency, marking the largest insolvency case in Styria in Der Steiermark, which with €1,340,000,000, they have a restructuring process underway following the opening of proceedings at the regional court in Graz.

Then CEO, Obling, completed a 100% founder buyout of the Vienna based Introtech Finabro Finabro? Fin a bro? Maybe it's for people who go to the gym. It's Finabro. After recent setbacks, including insolvency rumors, Finabro resurfaced with a fresh start in Germany. And, Joe in onto Switzerland, we have a news alert. The Swiss StartupRadio scene continues to thrive with innovation and growth,

despite the size says tech EU. Despite its size, Switzerland ranks 6th globally in total funds raised by tech companies showcasing, what is a pretty remarkable potential. In 2023 alone, the Swiss Tech Venture secured €2,800,000,000, pretty whooping, highlighting the nation's prowess in the entrepreneurial landscape. Switzerland with a GDP ranking of 21 worldwide manages to punch above its weight in the StartupRadio arena in that case. The, Tech EU article also looks into the details why that is

the case. One, reason for it is that the government and private sector collaborations have been instrumental in nurturing the ecosystem there. Then there are tax incentives to funding up to fund opportunities, accelerator programs, and overall, just like a very, supportive environment for start ups. We will have some more, fundraisers for Austrian and Swiss companies in the end, but for now, we will move on to the general news tech news and company news section.

1st off, there are new funds in case any of you guys is looking for money. This is also only a selection. Let me rattle some of them. The general catalyst reportedly raises nearly €6,000,000,000 for tech Startupradio, signaling a robust investor confidence. Funds are going to be invested across various sectors including Fintech and health care, right, the Financial Times. XL, ACCEL, announced a new 602,000,000 euro fund to support

early stage funders in Europe and Israel. They already have a 24 year old 24 year presence in Europe and continue to back, tech companies. Their news from Innovacapital, their latest fund, Innovac7, has closed 407,000,000 exceeding its target and hard cap. They are focused on business and financial services, industrials, and consumer and lifestyle sectors and are backed by institutional and commercial support.

Norskine VC just closed its 2nd fund at €320,000,000, doubling down on impact entrepreneurs tackling the world's greatest problems and backed by some of Europe's top investors like folks on AP 1 and EIF. And not really a new fund, but, this is just like the best place for our start up news to talk about it. The global founders' capital linked with Rocket Internet opts for a strategic shift now. Instead of a new fund, they'll invest solely from Rocket.

Internet's coffers, with €300,000,000 to deploy their poised for focused early stage ventures that they say. Moving on, handing it back to you. Going into the Fintech news, 2 times Austria this time, 2 times a Bitpanda. Number 1 is, they expand into MENA, Middle East and North Africa with a new office in Dubai focusing

on b to b solutions. And Bitpanda news number 2 on a as of April 25th, Bitpanda has become the broker with largest crypto offering in Europe boasting 411 currencies and over 4,500,000 users across nearly 30 countries. French Techstra giant, United, odds new loan operations in Germany shifting focus more to profit profitable markets despite a 4 year presence citing lower profitability potential and intense competition. Chris, you wanna hand over, you wanna take over

general news again? Yeah. Let's look at a couple of more companies. Starting with Munich's Hollydo, just like holiday, but with a u instead of a y in the end. They made a major move acquiring Madrid's mad Madrid's Club Rural to, enhance their rural vacation rentals in Spain and Portugal. They now claim to have 28,000 homes in their portfolio. So basically, chain changing probably or probably changing a lot of travel experiences

there. We see big changes at Zalando as their cofounder David Schneider steps down as Joe CEO to focus on strategic partnerships and brand relationships. David Schroder, so it's like a change of the Davids there. David steps up as a new co CEO. And, yeah, that's what what we have about Zalando. Formerly known as Pozhalot and make Essence Delivery serve as rebrands as GreenClub,

looking into fresh, healthy, and sustainable offerings. They have a €12,000,000 in revenue projected for 2024 and expansion plans across Germany. Good luck for that. The food saving StartupRadio from Berlin, or surplus is back in action. Founder, Rafael Fehmer, secured brand rights domain and online shop and social media accounts with support from investors and wants to fight food waste. Despite some initial setbacks, the Eastern German robotics prodigy, Wandelbots,

is looking for a comeback. Cofounder Christian Pichnik unveiled unveiled a radical business model pivot and a strategic AI partnership with OpenAI. High stakes move, More information about that in the show notes. We have some more news about top fertility Startupradio catching investors' eyes. VCs from Zofinova, Antler, and Ananda Impact Ventures revealed their pick at, Sift. EU. 1 in 6 1 in 6 people affected by

globally. So they are hoping that their solutions will become crucial in that medical field. Zuma Equity acquires a majority stake in the Munich based FastLTA, a leader in secure data storage solution for businesses. Fast LTA has €25,000,000 revenue in 2023 and wants to grow and expand internationally. Then, Germany has revoked Mastodon's non profit status despite an an an unchanged service. The founder says, though, he remains undeterred and is confirming the

commitment to EU operations. Then, the founders of Jimdo, after 17 years, regained a 100% ownership of their StartupRadio and cofounder steered the company through tough times, now profitable, and are focused on product. Excellent. That what they say that's what they say. We have freed you off in our interview from September 2023. You can find that in our medium channel. Link to

that is in the show notes. And the English investor, Star Capital, takes over Nextbike, a bike sharing provider from Tia, which for them signals a strategic shift emphasizing TIER's focus on direct to customer services. But we also have some more, like, brutal changes, which we collect under the euphemism of creative destruction. Yes. We

do. Creative destruction. But, Chris, I get the feeling the fundraising section gets bigger and bigger, and the creative destruction, section gets smaller and smaller, just at least the feeling. Sad news for the v arvo, Munich based holo ride fights for insolvency. StartupRadio Eeloop, known for Tesla car sharing and vehicle tokenization, faces a setback as it halts car sharing operations due to high costs and financing burdens.

The closure is part of a restructuring process. Chris, you want to take over the high note and the fundraisings? There was not a lot of lot of destruction, actually. So, yeah, fundraisings. Just another small selection. I'm gonna really be fast with this. The news here and their total value show how resilient the StartupRadio in GSA is. We've only included a selected number of fundraisings about €5,000,000 or US dollars.

Let's start. Berlin based Startupradio, secures €62,000,000 in funding led by Ultimeta Capital. Some of the investors include football legend, Bastian Schweinsteiger, and Palua aims to revolutionize call centers with an AI powered voice intelligence. Munich based biotech startup in Sempra got €19,000,000 for an innovative

for their biodegradable materials led by EQT Ventures. The series a round also seized investments from Bion Capital, the investment arm of Henkel, and Valley investor Allantecapitor. In industrial biotechnology, in Sempra, secure oh, sorry. That's, that's the same. Trava, a leading provider of AI driven energy solutions, just secured €10,000,000 in seed funding led by Baldaton Capital. They plan to expand their eye tech and solutions,

to drive renewable energy forward. And I promise we will have a look at some more from Switzerland where MIMO Therapeutics raises 20,000,000 Swiss francs in a series c extension, totaling now 45,000,000 Swiss francs. The funding will accelerate clinical advancement of anti BKV, a promising treatment for BK virus infection in kidney transplants patients. GlaxoSmith Klein joins Bioversus in a series c extension run furthering their collaboration to advance IP Bacteria for, tuberculosis treatment.

With a 12,300,000 investment, the total proceeds now reach around 45,000,000 Swiss francs. Anapaya enters a growth phase with 10,000,000 Swiss francs in investment to bolster their business critical services using, Xi'an Internet arch architecture. Funding they receive comes from Cape Capital, Najee Mustafa, 6, and Misten Labs. And Appiah wants to use the money

for global expansion as well. Test Maid Health announced $6,000,000 in seed funding, led by led by RH Capital with support from the helm, Zurcher Kantonalbank, M. Boy Street Ventures, Liechsteiner Foundation, and Dart Labs dot Joe. Their goal at Testmate Health is to improve at home testings testing for, STIs. And in Austria, we see that Vienna's Inspire AI just secured €25,500,000 in series b led by Zook Capital. They also are looking at a global expansion. More about their journey

is also in our show notes. We have some more news to stay ahead of the curve. You can read all about that in the show notes. We are always looking for feedback. We are happy if you follow us everywhere. If you leave us a review, hit that subscribe button. That's always good for our numbers. I'm gonna say we will be back on June 27th as promised by Joe as well with the news next news episodes and the next regular episode. Will go live next week. Until then, I would say have a happy

early weeks of summer. I think getting out there is really a good mood enhancer. Don't work too hard on your startups. And if you do, just look for how to get how to make the money. It's my advice. And, Chris, you know what? It wasn't too bad. We were afraid that we would talk around 50 minutes. We it will be just shy of 35 minutes, which isn't too bad. Chris, it was as always a pleasure talking to you. And, I didn't hear sirens, so you owe me a

bagel for today. I that's good. Yeah. I hit a lot of I muted myself a lot because outside there's construction and I have the AC is on. So, I kind of cheated today. As always, guys, give us feedback in the blog post. There is a form for the feedback and, of course, a link to the host on LinkedIn and on Twitter for Chris and for me. Guys, that's a wrap. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure having you here. Ciao for now.

That's all, folks. Find more news, streams, events, at interviews at www.startuprad. Joe. Remember, sharing is caring.

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