Music. Hello and welcome everybody. This is Joe from StartupRate.io welcoming you to another episode here on StartupRate.io. I would like to welcome Boris from Averstox here with me. Hey Boris, how are you doing? Hey Joe, I'm doing very fine. Happy to be here.
It's totally my pleasure we may add that we are recording this interview shortly before the publication date which is a thursday here in germany which is also a public holiday and it's also father's day celebrated here in germany so happy father's day to all the fathers out there and if you're curious the next sunday is mother's day also happy mother's day to all the mothers out there also from my side of course happy days and all the best to all fathers and mothers out there and in
case my parents will listen to this udo and sonja best wishes also to you yes and and everybody who's listening to this outside of germany should know that this is a holiday in germany not for all states but nonetheless not everybody would pick up your uh the phone or reply to your emails in time at that day let me quickly check it's called in english feast of a session okay here we go now that we got that out of the way boris let's talk a little bit about you
and um what you've done before before you founded everstocks may we say that is something um. That is something you you could say follows an asset light approach. Would you agree something like the Flix or Uber of logistics? Yes, it's a very fair comparison, especially because I think Flix and Uber are both amazing companies and amazing founders behind that I very much look up to. So it's a comparison that I like to hear.
I think in terms of being Acid Light, and Acid Light, to explain it a little bit, means obviously we don't own operations ourselves.
So the same way that Flix doesn't operate their own buses and it's not owning buses, but working hand in hand in partnerships with bus operators, we bring a similar approach to logistics where we really focus on great technology, great software and work hand in hand with very established and experienced logistics providers and kind of create a win-win and the best of both worlds in the end for our customers,
which are modern brands in e-commerce and omnichannel that then kind of get the best of both worlds. In software and technology from Everstox plus fully integrated operational services from our partner network of very strong and experienced logistics providers that we select with a lot of care and that we work very closely together with. I think one differentiation that I would like to take is that in our market, I think the value of software goes much deeper.
I think many platforms like Uber or Flix, you mainly think about them in terms of making transactions, actions, so booking your ride or kind of booking a seat in a bus. In terms of Everstox on the software side, we build much more of an operating system where you really manage all your orders, all your inventory, very complex processes. So I think the software component of Everstox is a bit more difficult and at the same time creating a bit more value than other models.
You have gotten a little bit ahead of me here, but it was a great teaser. Let's get started. Where you got started, you studied not too far away from here, from Frankfurt at University of Mannheim. And actually, you also studied at University of Miami. And in the background of my mind, there's Welcome to Miami, the song playing. Can you first tell us a little bit about what you've been doing there? there. And then we can go on through your CV and end up at founding, co-founding Averstox.
Yes, I'm very happy to do so. And sorry for getting ahead a little bit. Sometimes when I talk about Averstox and I get too excited, then I keep talking. Yes, indeed. I grew up in Freiburg, then first moved to Mannheim for my university studies. So not too far from home first, But then I think international countries and international experiences called me. So I indeed spent half a year studying and living in Miami, also in the field of business administration.
But also a very beautiful time because I'm very much into sports and into sunshine. And there's a lot of college opportunity to do that in Miami at the same time. After that, I also moved to Barcelona to continue my studies there. So you see a little bit of a tendency to follow the sun and follow sports. And yeah, that was a good journey and a great international experience for me.
Did you do the usual touristy stuff being in Florida, meaning visiting Disney World, Cape Canaveral and all that stuff, Everglades? Yes, yes, yes, of course I did. I have to say that my grandparents actually lived in Miami or close to Miami for almost 15 or 20 years. So I kind of grew up with a lot of stories about Florida and Miami and a lot of pictures of like the good old times.
Living there by the beach so it was also kind of a childhood dream for me to make it over there as soon as the opportunity presents itself so indeed I took the time the half year I had to experience everything that Miami Florida and the wider US has to offer so Disneyland Everglades all included and then as you said you went to Barcelona you have any recommendation what's the best time to visit the city yes i do i do um i would uh go either early in the
year in early springtime around march or april or then towards uh like late fall when you go in october or november i think it's the best time to kind of also go there when it's not too hot but still beautiful weather so you can be very active enjoy the city and it's not completely overloaded by tourists That's one thing about Barcelona, as much as I love Spain and I love Barcelona and I enjoyed my time there.
Obviously, the city is very, very crowded. And then in summertime, it also gets a bit too much for me. So I would very much recommend early spring or late fall. In Barcelona, which apparently is a beautiful city, you started working in consulting. Was that like, oh, I don't know what to do. Let's go for consulting. Not really. I have to say that I spent an amazing internship at BCG already during my studies. So I also had really strong personal connections back from that project.
I think I had an amazing project leader, one of the most impressive people that I've worked with in my career so far that really made an amazing job and made me learn a lot within just eight or 10 weeks of that internship. So that kind of personal connection, I always kept it active throughout the rest of my studies. Joining BCG was a very natural step for me because I could work with people that I knew. I find them amazing. I can learn a lot from them.
And it also gave me the opportunity to keep on living this international lifestyle a little bit longer because also at BCG, I could move around project by project a little bit to different places, also to different countries. So my heart was pleading a little bit leaving Barcelona and leaving Spain. And then BCG presented me a great opportunity to start my career and still experience some other countries and cultures. And then you went for a little bit prop tech investing.
And then you started after a little bit over half a year, Everstox. Did you, when you left BCG, already had the plan of Everstox in your drawer? Of Everstox, 100% the way Everstox is today, no, unfortunately not. Otherwise, I think I would have started Everstocks already six months earlier, right after leaving BCG. But I had a very, very clear idea and a very clear plan of starting a company and turning into entrepreneurship.
That's also the reason why I left BCG, where I had overall a really good time with great people, because I wanted to give myself the chance and the opportunity and the mental space to really give it all to this opportunity to start a company.
So what I did, because I had some first ideas about the logistics market and like trends overall that are happening and Joe, my co-founder and I and later then also Felix joining, we had some ideas that there is a real problem and also believe that it can be solved. But it was still like a very, very rough idea back then.
So I decided while we were working on kind of continuing that path and really understanding the market better and really getting to the conviction that this is exactly the company and the market that we want to build.
I was working on the side in investment a little bit on a freelance base around PropTech because that obviously gave me the perfect opportunity to keep cash flow up in early founder days a little bit, which is also important if you don't sit on a big bank account after your studies. And at the same time, obviously looking from the investment side into different markets It was also a good experience for me to prepare for entrepreneurship.
And what was the first idea of Averstocks that you started with? And how did it evolve over time before we get into your international expansions? Yeah, it was, I think, mainly an understanding of the problem and of the market opportunities. So in the beginning, I wouldn't call it an idea. It was more that we came from different angles. So when I take Johannes, one of my co-founders. He was running, he was also working for some time at BCG.
He was then running an e-commerce related startup where they sold office equipment and related services. So he kind of had to deal with operations fulfillment and logistics in the background from a customer perspective. So he knew the pain and the problem around that. Same for my co-founder Felix, who worked as CTO at Rocket Internet Ventures for a couple of years.
So he was for a decade building e-commerce and e-commerce technology and marketplaces and always had to take care of the problem of integrating old school logistics technology and myself i was more looking at it from the logistics side, where a lot of investment was happening in warehousing space and everything related to that because everybody was kind of seeing the big wave of e-commerce coming that then also came with
COVID and everybody tried to prepare operational infrastructure to be ready for that. And the people who kind of built up the operations and invested in that, they were not necessarily on top of the software game that is actually needed to also then run this infrastructure effectively. So we looked at different angles on the market and we saw a lot of growth and we saw a lot of problems at this intersection of modern commerce and rather old school logistics.
And that's where we said, hey, we see a very complex jungle. Everybody, every e-commerce company is trying to navigate it by themselves. And we just said there must be a better way to do this, a better way to solve it. And that's where we started from. And then there was a long journey of a lot of customer interviews, logistics provider interviews, where we really went deep into understanding the problem and drafting the concept that is Everstocks as of today.
So I would say a very customer-oriented journey where we started with, hey, there's a real problem, a real pain. Let's talk to as many people as possible and learn as much about it as possible to get to the best possible idea to solve it. And let's try together to understand, especially for our audience here, what do you guys actually offer? So basically, we talked about the asset owners, meaning the physical warehouses, the trucks, all the freight logistics, and so on and so forth.
You guys, with the software that then connects to marketplaces, to websites, and so on and so forth, how does this all come together? And, for example, I'm somebody who's trying to sell, for example, dog food. What kind of services would you offer me? And how do you actually provide that in the background? That is actually fascinating for me.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would start explaining it from the consumer perspective a little bit, because I think in the end, it's maybe the easiest way for all listeners to relate to whatever stocks is doing. So basically, whenever you buy something from your favorite brand, some kind of favorite product that you want to have, be it food, be it cosmetics, be it fashion, everything that you want and need for your daily life, you might have different channels where you buy it.
You have some favorite online shops, you go on some marketplaces, you go in offline retail, you get the products. And what you see is obviously just like the end of the whole supply chain. You order your product, you get it the next day or something. It seems to be very simple. But what in the end happens in the background is a very, very, very complex journey to make sure that, you know, the different products are available at the right time, at the right place.
And you can get this very timely delivery the next day or something. I think it's a very complex supply chain that is behind that. And this very complex supply chain needs to be solved by every e-commerce company on their own. So basically, they have to figure out everything from finding the suppliers, sorting out the warehouses, picking their carriers, and so on, to making this whole chain happening. And in between, they have to put a lot of different tools and software.
And there's also still a lot of Excel and manual communication happening together to make this work in the end. And we as Everstocks provide an end-to-end solution to our clients. So we have all the services integrated in our technology, everything from ordering your products into your warehouses to the warehousing and fulfillment services that you need to basically all the last mile deliveries that you need.
And you can all run them via our software. So basically one integration to our stocks and access to our software is everything you need to deliver top notch customer experiences to your clients in a very similar way to kind of the very fast standards that we, for example, know from Amazon over the last couple of years.
So that means if i'm somebody who just has a website i can basically purchase average stocks use the the platform the services provided there and can put together my own version of amazon.
Amazon logistics for me that's correct with the big advantage that you stay in control of your customer experience and of your supply chain which means it's not delivered by amazon in the end but it's delivered by chose pet food brand and it's an amazing experience for the customer and the customer relates this amazing experience to you and it's also your supply chain so if you want to change things tomorrow you can do that and it's not like amazon forcing some new policies or
new fees on you but it's your distribution network it's your customer experience and ever stocks just gives you all the tools and all the intelligence and the software and the services you need to build that on a on a top-notch level i see so that means i could get with your service delivered my my product in branded boxes with the flyers um that i want to have in for example some other people i have distribution agreements with vouchers
and so on and so forth and they can It can all be worked in by you guys. And what kind of area do you cover? Will you provide services for me only for Germany or all of Europe? Because I do have personal experiences. Getting from point A to point B can be very, very easy if you do it at 2 a.m. And it can be very, very long and very, very tiresome if you try to get from Berlin to Frankfurt or the other way around by car on a Friday afternoon. Yeah.
Yeah, 100%. I think that what we as Everstocks share with our customers is really ambition to grow and expand. And that also means to grow and expand across borders and internationally. So we had a very strong focus with Everstocks from day one to build a very strong international network where we can deliver our services to our clients.
So obviously we started out in the DACH region we very quickly expanded across all the major european markets i mean e-commerce italy france spain netherlands and so on then around tracks that it was also super important for us to have a local footprint in terms of logistics operations in the uk and then one and a half two years ago we also expanded our footprint to the us we did that because a of course we as ever stocks have strong and international
and big ambitions but most importantly because our customers have them and I think scaling your business in e-commerce, scaling your operations, scaling your logistics without ever stocks is a very very complex road to go down because you will work with a lot of different providers, shipments get very costly when you cross borders and so on and so forth and we kind of build this international network that is then plug and play ready
to use for all our clients and so for them expanding to more countries, to more markets, reaching more consumers with one-day, two-day delivery is much, much easier than in the traditional way. So that's one of the core value propositions, this kind of unlimited growth, also internationally that we deliver to our clients. That would mean, for example, if I want to have coverage of the European Union, I tell you that is my customer base.
You can tell me I need to have stock in this warehouse, in this warehouse, in this warehouse. I need that much, and then you can provide the services for me? 100%. That's also part of our sales process, for example. So we do basically for free as business development an analysis for our clients where we analyze kind of their customer profile, their order structure, and so on.
And then we can make a data-driven recommendation of where should they have fulfillment centers, which markets should they serve with local warehouses, where should they use international shipping services, and so on. And then we can set up the whole distribution network for them with fulfillment centers in the countries where they have most orders and our system and software obviously runs the whole process.
I have seen that you guys expanded within two years after launch to the UK which is of course not that big but also the US and I do believe providing logistics in the US is a different ballgame given that it's. Quite different from Florida, where we've already talked about to delivering in the winter in Wyoming. Yeah, my local Florida connection obviously helped in that process in terms of experiences.
No, I think for us, this international expansion is mainly driven by the opportunity of being asset light and being very fast and expanding for our customers. And that meant that expanding to the UK and to the US was kind of a very strong opportunity for us and for our clients, because I think we often talk about US companies entering the European markets and having sales here and look up to US brands.
And I think it's super important to also build European market leaders and international companies and brands. So we also want to expand ourselves as Everstocks, but also enable all our customers and our strong European customer base to go into international markets more effectively and be successful there. And yes, obviously, serving a huge market like the US with very, very different states and very different weather conditions and very different
logistical infrastructure is a big challenge. And one of the things that we solve. So also over there, we have multiple fulfillment locations where we can cover the whole nation very fast and very efficiently in terms of delivery.
And yes, if there are some very complex weather conditions that for whatever reasons, trucks can't drive on the road because it's full of ice or snow in some states, I think then the flexibility of our solution, our network also comes into play where we are able to reroute orders to other warehouse locations and fulfill them from there and manage those unexpected complexities of logistics that will always happen for a lot of different reasons, weather being one of them.
I see. Just to tease you, do you also provide delivery services within Alaska and Hawaii? I think we do. Honestly, I would have to check the database for all orders and see what are the most weird addresses that we've ever delivered to. It would actually be a funny study, I think. The most rare locations that every stock is delivered to would be cool. I will look into that, but in theory, yes.
But I think it's always the decision of our clients if they want to serve those areas because they, I guess, come with higher shipping costs than in other areas. And then either the customer is actually willing to pay for that, or it might not be the best business case to ship there. But maybe people on Hawaii or in Alaska are also willing to pay a bit more for their shippings. I guess that's a bit more complex to be served up there.
I see. And in terms of clients, I've seen on your website, you provide services for apparel and fashion should be pretty easy. Beauty and cosmetics, also consumer goods, maybe a little bit security. But what drew in my attention is food and beverages where you have to take care of freezing or cooling and stuff like that.
Furniture and home decor and what i had in mind is like big couches heavy lifting literally health and fitness maybe also some heavy lifting here jewelry once again my mind ticked uh security and toys which is apparently also uh pretty obvious here where did you start and when did at, for example, food and beverages and jewelry? Because I do believe especially food and beverages are a very special game here in terms of logistics.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So no surprise, we didn't start off with the most complex segments. So it was not the cool, fresh food that we started off with building our solution around, but obviously in the more basic segments. But at the same time, I mean, fashion and apparel might sound a bit easier, but if you go into like the complexities of return management and return refurbishments and, and, and it gets quite complex. Logistics is, is never easy for anyone.
I think that's what I also love about building ever stocks, because you actually always have customers with a problem because logistics is complex. And if we do a great job and we solve those complexities, we can, we can actually do a lot for our clients.
So we started off with more basic segments, but all of them have some important software and operational components on the software side, I think yes, we have delivered a lot of things around smart batch tracking solutions and like best before dates and and and and all the complexities that you need to keep track and trace of all your products and fulfill your needs.
On all standards that you have in the cosmetics or food industry and same for what I just mentioned around fashion where we invested a lot in very strong return solutions and return management solutions and return to refund processes on the software side the good thing I would say the software technology that we are building it's modular so of course a food client is not similar to a fashion client but there's 90 overlap in what they need in terms
of software features and then And we can build modular solutions on top of that. But we reuse the same core for every client around smart order management, smart inventory management, and so on and so forth. And on the operational side, I would say this is a big advantage of our asset-light and flexible approach because we work with logistics providers that, by themselves, specialize on certain areas.
So we don't have the furniture and the food and the fashion in the same warehouse, and it's different corners. But we have specialized warehouses for food. We have specialized warehouses for fashion and we have specialized, but the customer doesn't have to care because process-wise, system-wise, software-wise, it's the standardized Everstock solution and interface. But we make sure that we have different specialists on the operational side of things for the different segments we serve.
So you're basically the main knot in a complex net of corporations with a lot of established logistic partners here? Yes, yes, 100%. I think it's been our clear plan from day one to work with strong and established logistics providers on kind of an eye-to-eye partnership level. I think for many founders that go into very established industries. They often think we can do everything better and we are smarter than everyone in the industry.
Industry and I very much disagree at least from what I've experienced about logistics and the people behind I think as I said logistics is super complex there are a lot of companies out there that have built up knowledge and best practice processes and so on a lot of smart people over decades in that industry also a lot of mid-sized and family-run businesses and when it comes to operations and process automation and so on they are super strong and we kind of
decided that we want to work on a model that is also working perfectly well for them and we kind of complement what they do best together with the software and technology that we bring in that we do best so i mentioned earlier that we've spent a lot of time talking a lot to our customers e-commerce omnichannel company really understanding them understanding their pains and like really building for them we are still doing that with the research function as of
today the same thing we also did on the side of logistics corporations where we spend a lot of time meeting with them talking what we want to do with everstox and really making everstox the software and the approach how we do business a clear win-win for both e-commerce and logistics companies.
In what what kind of companies we're talking about here in terms of logistic partners it's very likely it's just not fedex and ups you're working with yeah so for i would differentiate between warehousing and fulfillment and then shipping services so for like delivering the passes from the warehouses to and we organize all of that for our clients and our software managers all of that And for the part from the warehouse to the customers,
we also work with very typical carriers like DHL and UPS and FedEx and the ones that you mentioned, because obviously they are the ones who have the network and the reach to reach end customers in all areas all over the globe. There's also some innovation happening in the space, and we are always adding new partners that might deliver a bit more sustainably and so on to our solution and to our network, but we work with the core ones.
When it comes to warehousing and fulfillment, we work with mainly mid-sized companies. So a couple of hundreds to a few thousands of employees, a couple of five to 10 very nicely and efficiently run warehouse and fulfillment locations.
Because what we experienced is that in our view, they are the perfect combination of they have a lot of scale and operational experience and firepower to also invest in very strong intra logistics automation and top-notch processes for their and our clients but they are also still agile and fast because if you grow into like a very very big logistics corporation and then you serve thousands of mid-sized e-commerce companies
it's obvious that you can provide your service in the same agility and the same flexibility to that many clients across that many locations versus mid-sized providers that have in our view the perfect combination of scale and power but at but at the same time being agile and flexible in serving their clients. I see. We've been talking a lot about your clients on both sides of the network. We've been talking about what you have done so far. Let us look a little bit into the future.
Everybody's now talking about AI. Are you guys also applying it? And what what do you think can be the benefit to both sides of your marketplace? Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Big, big topic. And I sometimes when I read about AI overall and then specifically AI and supply chain and AI and logistics, I sometimes also have to smile a little bit, to be honest, because.
The broad world of logistics as it works today is very far away from being ai ready, what do i mean by that of course you can build a beautiful ai solution that if you had very good data and very good data quality you could make amazing things happen with ai in logistics. For example one big topic that always comes up is around demand forecasting and inventory planning planning.
If you take that example, most companies today, they plan their inventory and forecast demand based on Excel models and some gut feeling where they say, oh, we're doing a bit more marketing, so maybe there will be a bit more sales. Let's put up 10% and order 10% more. I mean, I'm exaggerating a little bit, but it's really very manual task. So 100%, I believe that AI can help to do that in a better way.
And you like to talk about weather earlier so for example if you take weather conditions in your forecasting and you know that someday it's gonna rain and people will probably be more at home and that's why they will order more online on on that very day or other effects that come into play there are so many data sources that will help you in that problem but i think as long as most of logistics and most of operations actually struggles and even knowing how much inventory they have at the very
moment there's not so much in terms of AI that you can build on it. So at the same time, I see that as a huge opportunity for Everstox because while I said the big world of logistics out there is not ready for AI.
We have spent the last three, four years on building a perfect software layer and data layer where we integrate services into our software and you have all the required data available when it comes to order inventory in real time returns in real time and so on and so forth so what we are currently doing is because we say hey we have a lot of customers we have all the data for those customers to actually apply ai models we're doing some internal development into
that direction to deliver solutions for our clients and we're also open for partnerships where we work with some companies that look at ai and supply chain but they very much face the problem that they don't find like good data and good data setups that they can work with um so everybody everyone listening in into this and building uh on ai solutions in logistics or supply chain i'm also very excited to to talk and see if if there's opportunity to cooperate yeah that totally makes sense and
it it's always a problem for uh of data i also do know that there's a lot of uh demand forecasters is out there for many, many companies, and they're especially crucial in companies, producing perishables like milk products, cheese, and so on and so forth. You just can't wait until Christmas. It doesn't work that way. I do believe there will be a lot of opportunity for AI in the future. And I do believe some of the demand for casters will have to retool in that area.
Talking about retooling, you guys also look into international expansion, right? Yes, yes, yes. Yes, we already talked about how international our footprint is as of today. So when we look at operational network and where we can serve our clients and which markets we can serve our clients, I think we already cover quite a lot, given that Everstocks as a company is just four and a half years old.
So very proud of that and also very proud that we could prove this strong international scalability of Everstocks stocks together with a lot of clients that expanded with us over the years at the same time when when we look at go to market we've been focused on the european core markets as of today so our customer base is mainly european few us customers but mainly european like 60 70 percent from the dach region and i don't see any reason why ever stocks could not be we could not
replicate our success in other international markets. I think it's mainly a matter of putting right focus on the markets, having people on the ground that speak the native languages and so on and so forth, because the technology and the service itself is very, very scalable. So international expansion, now that we feel very comfortable and strong about our position that we've built in our core markets is definitely one of the big strategic missions for 2025 and onwards.
Words i see um when we talked before you also uh you've also so far raised 23 million until series a um in 2022 i do believe yes correct that means then you surpassed around 1 million us dollar annual recurring revenue your investors include rocket internet flash mentors global founders capital cap dynamic ventures, and act and capital. And we already talked about, you are going to maybe do a series B funding in 2025. Fingers crossed for this. And you're open to investors, I presume.
Yes, definitely. As I just described, we have still big plans ahead of us, be it developing a product in the AI space or moving forward with our international expansion. So indeed, when investors share our passion for the space and for the opportunity and can bring some knowledge and support and also some capital to the table, We are always interested to meet and discuss the space and the opportunity itself.
And I think the last few years, obviously, we've invested a lot into being very efficient and very stable and really owning our core markets and building very solid and healthy business in those core markets. So when you look at 2022, which was obviously a very good time to raise money, We used that opportunity, we raised money with great investors. And then for the last years, obviously, e-commerce was after COVID slower than it was before.
So we also took the time to really double down on our core markets and build a very solid foundation. That's why we're also not under pressure for the fundraise. But I think it became clear that I'm very proud of what we've built with Everstox as of today. But there's a lot of things that I still want to do. I'm still dreaming of a lot of different things in the product and of international markets and so on and so forth.
So for that additional growth journey, obviously, we are always excited to meet investors and to discuss those plans. You've been talking about international expansion. It may be great to have international investors who have boots on the ground there already, who know the market.
At what areas you may consider for future expansions and you would be interested to have local investors yeah indeed i think international presence international know-how and support and scaling our organization internationally would be some of the areas where we are excited about for new investors to bring them to the table because also when i look at our cap table today and Flash Ventures and Capnemic and Acton, and by the way, to all founders out there, great experiences with our investors,
so can very much recommend them. They are exactly the partners that we needed for the last couple of years, and they still have a lot to give for us for the future. But they are mostly DACH-focused, Germany-focused, and they can support an international expansion.
But of course, there might be other investors that then have a very strong, foot in the ground in other markets so definitely the UK and the US are of big interest for us and investors that can support there that that would be very exciting for us.
Sounds pretty good and um i can assume your answer but i'm sure you're looking for talented employees, yes definitely definitely across all areas so everyone passionate about e-commerce technology and logistics i think everything related to go to market we want to grow so we will always need marketing and sales people and then people to make our customers happy also we have some positions that go a bit deeper into logistics.
So everyone who comes from the logistics industry but is maybe a bit bored of the way old school logistics companies are operating, I think Everstox could be your place to be to combine innovation and logistics. And last but not least, of course, technology data. It's at the core of our products, so always looking for people. So yeah, please, anyone who is excited about Everstox, reach out to me.
And all the people because this this interview will be live for a few years everybody would like to learn more go down here in the show notes there will be of course you're a link to your company website to your linkedin profile as well as to the career website of average stocks boris it has been a pleasure talking to you thank you very much and hope to have you back in 2025 and talk about your series b funding yes excited for that thank you very much for the great conversation Bye-bye.
My pleasure. Have a good day. Bye-bye. Music.