Episode 5: Santos Released From Prison

Pushkin. Hey, it's Jake. Welcome back to deep Cover. I'm in your feed today with an update about a story that we covered last summer. You might remember it. My producer Amy Gains McQuaid and I did a deep dive into the world of George Santos, a former Republican congressman from New York who pled guilty to wire fraud and identity theft. I called up Amy because well, there's been quite a development in the last week. Hey, Amy, Hey Jake.

So I'll just cut you it the news we're here to talk about. On Friday, President Trump commuted Georgeantos's sentence, sending shockwaves through the political world.

George Santos is the gift that keeps on giving.

I did not think we'd be here so many months after releasing this series talking about this, but here we are.

Yeah, So just talk us through this. How did we get to this point?

So, if you remember, Santos pled guilty to two charges, wire fraud and aggravated identity theft. That was last summer, August twenty twenty four. I was actually in the courtroom for that plea hearing, and at the time Santos told the judge you know, I accept full responsibility for my actions.

They set his sentencing.

For April, and at that time he was actually sentenced to eighty seven months, a little over seven years. He was always going to face at least two years because of the identity theft charge that he pled to that carries a two year minimum. His lawyers had asked the judge if he could be sentenced to the minimum that two years, but the judge at sentencing didn't agree with that and felt that Santos deserved a sentence on the

Handed down the maximum.

He reported to prison in July, and then three months later he's released.

Okay, So I know, like I heard this on Sunday for Saul, I immediately thought of you. I was like, what is Amy thinking. I mean, to me, it felt like a bombshell. They came out of nowhere. But I'm wondering the people that you spoke with who are close to the story, were they surprised by this.

Yeah, I've heard from a lot of folks that we talked to for the original series, and I think across the board, there was a lot of shock and surprise. I called up Kathy Soref, who, if you remember, was one of George Santos's donors.

The only thing I can say is he was so is far too long for what he did. In my opinion, Were you expecting this to happen? No, it was a complete shock. You know, I cried. I haven't been thinking about it, but it was like, what, you know, I guess people think that Trump is vengeful. I don't think he is vengeful. I think he wants to hold people accountable, and I think he is actually you know, has a very soft and compassionate side to him. And I think

It's interesting to hear like Kathy's basically like a prison reform advocate. Did you have any sense that that was like part of her deal?

Kathy sa I wouldn't characterized as a prison reform advocate. In particular, Kathy was very careful with me to draw a distinction between violent and nonviolent offenders. I think that she has a much harder line stance when it comes to violent offenders, and in this case, she doesn't think that George Santos is a real risk to the community non violent criminals.

You know, humiliation is a pretty potent punishment.

So do you think that three months was an adequate sentence for what he pled to?

I think that the time of it is not as significant as the experience that he probably had. I mean, you know, that's one reason why people don't want to be in jail. They get there and it's harsh.

I have a lot of questions about Kathy, but I wonder if it's actually helpful to just take a step back here. President Trump, what is he said about why he commuted Santos's sentence.

So when the news broke it was onwhere Else Truth Social Friday night, President Trump had posted quote, George Santos was somewhat of a rogue. That's in quotes, But there are many rogues throughout our country that aren't forced to serve seven years in prison. So you can see they're the president kind of indicating he didn't necessarily agree with the sentence that had been handed down. He had also said at least Santos had the courage, conviction and intelligence to always vote Republican.

What does that mean? Like, why is he calling out that Santos always voted Republican. I feel like with President Trump, there's often like a subtext. Do you have a sense of what the subtext is there?

Yeah?

I think the subtext in this case is pretty It's a neon sign, It's George Santos has been a vocal, consistent supporter of President Trump.

Early on, I had been waiting for this to happen. I think a lot of people had been. Santos himself had been kind of begging Trump for connotation apart in just kind of any relief at all, and he'd been a big support of Trump for a long time. So this wasn't surprising.

When I heard the news, I gave a call to Mark Gasanov. He's the author of The Fabulous, who we spoke to for the original series. His book is a deeply reported biography of Santos.

Trump had been pardoning or commuting a lot of people's sentences, so this wouldn't have been the craziest thing in the world. So I and a lot of people had been waiting for it to happen. But the months dragged on and nothing did. So kind of assumes that maybe Santos was going to stay in prison for at least a long time, a longer time than he spent. But you know, as with everything with Santos, it's your surprise, but nothing, nothing can shock you.

I want to impact that a bit. You had almost been expecting this.

It sounds like, why is that. Well, Santos had been a big Trump supporter and booster for years, I mean at least since twenty fifteen, and it was one of the fews things that he was totally just kind of unchangeable about. Right. He would go to rallies, he would boost him on social media. He actually spoke on January fifth, twenty twenty one, right before the January sixth Capitol riot. He continued sort of boosting Trump even after, you know,

That Mark is like, I'm only surprised it didn't happen sooner, and Kathy's like, I'm surprised it happened at all.

Yeah, well, I think that Marx beide is politics. And if you're paying attention, you've noticed that this is not the first act of clemency that has happened under the new Trump administration.

I'm saying new, but it's been less than a year.

You know.

In that time, President Trump has pardoned more than sixteen hundred people, which is pretty remarkable, unprecedented for this early in the presidential term. You know, fifteen hundred of those were people who were involved in the events of January sixth. So he's also commuted many sentences, and we should talk about that a little bit, because a pardon is different than a commutation.

Yeah, so this was a commutation, right.

This was a commutation, not a pardon.

So what is that like in plainspeak, what does that mean?

Pardon is a full It basically wipes your slate clean. The crime is forgiven. A commutation just means we're wrapping up your time spent in incarceration. So George Santos was released from prison late Friday night after this commutation was announced. It doesn't change the fact that he was still charged with these crimes. He still pled guilty to these crimes, and he still served time for these crimes, and that

He wasn't pardoned.

His sentence was commuted. So he will have to live with the dishonor that he caused himself. That will not go away, and hopefully he will find some way to redeem himself by good work.

Any sense for why President Trump would have opted to commute his sentence rather than just give him a pardon. Maybe that would have Maybe that would have upset the party in some way that they could It almost feels like it could be a compromise.

Well, and this was really the question that I had for Kathy what we're talking about here, because Kathy sores she is a Republican and she is a big backer of President Trump.

I know you to be a you know, a vocal supporter of President Trump, but also someone who has no love lost.

For George Santos.

So I'm just curious how you square those two things in a moment like this.

Well, I don't really know. I don't know what Trump was thinking. I don't I don't know other than just saying that he thought the long prison sentence was unfair and why are we He's not a danger to society. His humiliation will carry with him for a long time, and that is quite a punishment. I didn't understand what benefit it would be. Certainly it's not a political benefit

I'm a little skeptical about I mean, like, I mean, the question is a fair one, like why would he do this? I'm somewhat dubious this is just done out of a sense of justice. I think that that doesn't ring true to me. I could think of a few reasons why this would be good for him to do. I mean, it reinforces the idea that if you're loyal to me, I will look out for you down the road. It's another day where he's in charge of the news cycle. It also casts further doubt on a justice system that

I think that there's an argument to be made that Santos's loyalty is a huge factor in why we're talking right now and why Santos has been released. I think the other factor that we have to discuss is that he was held in solitary confinement, and from what we know, it seems like that's something that caught the president's attention. You heard Mark reference earlier. George Santos has been writing this sort of regular column for a newspaper on Long Island called The Soushore Press.

You know.

His most recent column came out just about a week ago, and he seems to be speaking to the president almost directly. He says, quote, I renew my plea to President Trump. Intervene helped me escape this daily torment and let me return to my family. So this really like heartfelt plea for release.

You know.

He he talks about his experience in solitary confinement.

Remind us why is he in solitary confinement?

George Santos found himself in solitary confinement. From the reporting that's out there, it seems he was not placed in solitary for any disciplinary reasons. He was placed in solitary because of an actual threat to his life. Then, so sometimes they might segregate an inmate for their own safety, but what George Santos maintains is that the conditions that he was held in were far from humane. He asked for his inhaler, and it took him hours, if not days,

Good luck, George, have a great life.

I mean it's interesting because you know, if you imagine a world where George Santos was only sentenced to three months and he served his time and get out today, versus a storyline where George Santos had been sentenced to seven years was being held in solitary confinement and Donald Trump gives him this commutation and tells him good luck. I mean, it feels like for a man who likes

Oh.

Absolutely, I will say it's interesting. The story of George Santos remains really fascinating to me in its many evolutions, because I think, you know, it's easy to dismiss him. You know, he's a con artist, and why are we even still talking about this guy? But I think throughout this saga, you know, George Santos has been a really interesting window into the realities of the systems of the

We'll be right back. Have we heard from George since he's been released?

So?

George Santos posted on Saturday, the day after he was released, saying, quote, yesterday I was given something I never thought i'd have again, a true second chance at life, a chance to grow, to change, and to walk a better path. He goes on to say, my goal now is to turn my past into something meaningful, to help create a justice system that truly believes in rehabilitation and second chances. Yes, I am back, but I am back as a new man, ready to work and do good.

I mean, what's what's so interesting about this to me is Sando's as many things, dumb is clearly not one of them. Whether he's sincere or there's a hustle here remains to be seen. But I think that what he does is he's picking up He's using something that's real, which is his own experience. He's using something that's real, which is solitary confinement. It's like an organic storyline. It's just the given who this guy is. It's damn hard

Yeah, it's a good question.

So over the weekend, one of the US Parton attorneys who handled the commutation actually tweeted out what appears to be the actual document that Trump signed, and it's in black and white, pretty clear language that this is an immediate commutation of his entire sentence time served with no further fines, restitution, probation, supervis release, etc.

Etca.

So it seems on paper he is not on the hook for this. Santos appeared on CNN over the weekend, interviewed by Dana Bash and she actually asked him this exact question.

You were ordered to by the court to pay three hundred and seventy thousand dollars in restitution to the people you defrauded. Will you still pay that back?

Well, if you really say the people, I just want to be clear with your audience so that we're not misleading them. Eighty five percent of that really goes into the investment made into my campaign for polling and TV ads and literature by the National Republican Congressional Committee. The investment was made to win a race. I won that race.

Well, this is about a fine, and this is about paying money back. And whether you describe them as victims or just donors to the NRCC, what the court said is that they should get their money back. Will you work to try.

To do that?

Well, look, I can do my best to do whatever the law requires of me, So I don't know what that is. I've been out of prison for two days. I agree to come here to speak with you candidly and openly, and not to offuscate. If it's required of me by the law. Yes, if it's not, then no, I will do whatever the law it requires.

Me to do.

It's so interesting he's not really answering the question. He's saying, well, I'll do it the law requires of me. But as we understand that the law is saying that he doesn't have to pay the money back, I would almost respect him more if he's like, hey, President Trump, SAI didn't have to pay it back. Why would I pay it back? You know, it's like, but no, it has to be well,

Yeah, somebody's money that he took. Look, this is another example of Santos being well versed in political spin.

Yeah. Absolutely, I wonder, I mean, do you have a sense for where you think? I mean, apparently he's going to become an outspoken voice for prison reform. Besides that, do you have a sense for where we might see him next?

Yes, I've also been thinking about that, and I asked Mark Gasano, the journalist who has looked to Santos and his life more than anyone else, Really this exact question.

I guess the question now is what happens next with a guy like this.

That's sort of the open question with Santos, and sort of always has been. People always wonder was he going to change? Is this kind of the end with him? Or is he just going to move to another scam? Who knows? With him? He sort of said different things at different times that he is repentance that he isn't. I'll note though, that he did reactivate his cameo account, so there's that he's at least trying that again. I definitely don't think we've heard the last of him.

The cameo account is the one where he gives like the birthday wishes.

Yes, you could pay George Santos. I'm curious, Actually, I'll look how much? How much the going rate is right now? But you could pay him to record a birthday message?

Or Yeah, what is what is the going rate?

Book a personal video? One fifty plus? Oh it's a flash sale.

One that's half off right now.

We're catching it on a on.

A flash sail.

Oh my goodness. Yeah, we're not seeing to lest this guy. My spidy sense tells me that in the not too distant future will be back because George Santaus will have once again found his way back into the headlines. This episode was produced by Amy Gains McQuaid and Isaac Carter. It was edited by Karen Chakerjee. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith, mastering by Jake Gorsky. Original scoring and our theme were composed by Luis Gara. Special thanks to Morgan Ratner,