I talk to people frequently who own businesses and lead teams and they will often struggle with second guessing and decision making and even being in a position that they never thought they would actually be in. So they have this passion for starting a business and then they end up in a situation where they say, to grow this thing, I have to learn how to delegate, I have to learn how to lead
people. And it's very intimidating for them. And I've been in that same situation, growing a business, it at having situations where I can't do this on my own. Just knowing I can't do this on my own. I don't know how many times I've said that over the last five years. You know, I had, I started Decide youe Legacy in 2012 and we were a team of five, went through
a setback, shrunk. Now it's been growing again. And then I'm relearning some things that I think I was better at in the past, but I've held on to some bad habits, doing it on my own, learning to trust people again. And that's been hard for me. And so today we're going to talk about influence that lasts. So strategies to impact people, strategies to grow your team, strategies to grow your business. Some things that you wouldn't have thought of that impact me when I reflect on them
and that are going to be helpful to you. And by the end of this episode, you're going to realize that you have a lot of influence. Leadership opportunities abound, whether it's in your family, on a holiday, with your family, with your friends. Leadership is you leading somebody in a different direction towards their goals. And we're going to talk today about these concepts that you can apply right away. But first and foremost, gear get in the mindset of saying that I can
relate to being a leader, even though I don't think I'm a leader. But there are aspects of my life where this is actually going to apply. So I'm your host, Adam Gragg. I am a corporate and individual legacy coach and I've been a family therapist for a number of years. My passion and the purpose of Decide youe Legacy is helping people and organizations live courageously, facing their fears, doing things
differently. You know, I have faced a fear recently. One of those fears is hiring my daughter, not knowing what to expect, being in a situation where I don't know how to. I don't really know how to do this. I've never done it before. I have one daughter. That's it. So she's now an employee officially, she's like in the office every day. It's great, I get it. But
it's a fear and I'm facing it, I'm leaning into it. And there's things every day that I didn't expect and there's things every day that I are different than my expectations, but it's a fear. So how have you faced a fear lately? I'd like you to think about that to get started. And I like to think in this podcast, if you would put yourself in a situation
potentially that you are in now and you're a leader in that situation. So whether it's at your church, it's with your job, it's with your family, you're a leader in different situations and you can apply this content. So I struggle with this because for me it's a change to trust and I know the less I trust, the more I try to control. And so it's a change for me to put
myself in these situations. And what I will find myself doing at times is just manufacturing my own drama, getting stuck in it, even self sabotage because that's safer for me than actually stepping out and growing this thing so it can impact more people. Just being frank with you. And today I have a special guest. It's somebody interviewing me. I felt like it'd be a great chance for me to
be asked some questions about what I'm learning about leadership. That could be helpful. That will be helpful to you, but by somebody else who is a leader on the Decide youe Legacy team. Her name's Kelsey Torkelson and she's our brand relations director. And so she's going to ask me questions and I'm going to answer them and you're going to take notes. And I want
to share a little bit. Something else as well is that, is that as you go through this content, it is great to think of yourself leading a specific person. I find that gives some context to it as you go in and you think, well, how could this impact that specific person? And think
of somebody that's frustrating to you. So on your team there may be somebody that just you don't connect with very well and they may have just a different personality because people that are highly analytical often can clash with somebody who's a strong people, person, person. It's like the sales department clashing with the finance department at your company. And somebody that is more one on one can clash with somebody that is more decisive and driven and wants to
move in a fast direction. It can put them in an uncomfortable situation. So I find that to be helpful. Get specific. Specificity decreases anxiety and it gives you applicability. You can apply it to that specific situation. So, Kelsey, go ahead. Well, how would you define leadership in your own words? Leadership. To me, as I focus on it, it's influence. It's you being in a situation where you can help somebody else to go where they've articulated they want to go and where, you know they can
go. So you see somebody on your team and they have great potential to be great at sales, let's say, because they're articulate and they're a people person and they're fun and they love to meet new people. But you find that in sales situations, they get anxious, but you believe that they can get there. You know, that they're passionate about the cause of the company and being a representative in the community, but you believe it so much. But they. They
doubt themselves and they second guess. But a good leader is going to continually pull them out of the drama, and some of that drama is in their own heads and towards the progress. And that progress is going to be the next step that they can take, the next step that they can challenge themselves with. And you show them how much you believe in them because you're giving them those opportunities. And then they see, wow, I can do this. Because what I found is that people only grow after
they do something that they're afraid to do. They grow, and then they see on the other side because they let go of the outcomes, that it's actually much better than they thought it could actually be. So leadership is influence, and it's helping people to focus on the gains, not the gaps. So successes at the end of the day rather than the failures at the end of the day. So I love asking people on my team, like, what did you do that you were afraid of today?
And I find as they share those things, that usually their energy level goes up because they did something. And even if it didn't go well, like, I asked a friend yesterday who has. I've. I've kind of loosely been asked to hold him accountable. At least he's given me permission to hold him accountable based on making sales calls. And that's difficult in his business for him. And he shared with me a list of
five calls that he had actually made, and one of them was promising. And even in that interaction, surprisingly, it inspired me to go ahead and do something because I saw someone else face a fear. So he was willing to face a fear. But me asking that question was my opportunity. To influence him and to see that I believe in him and I believe in other people often more than they believe in themselves. People believe in me more than I believe in myself oftentimes. And that's what I need
from other people. Because people need to lead me. I am led. If I'm willing to be a good leader, then I'm also going to have to be willing to be led by other people if I want to be a good leader. That is, that's really good. What's one belief or principle that guides everything you do as a leader? Well, it, it motivates me to know that I'm being watched and hopefully no one, no one is watching me in while I'm sleeping at
night, or that's what I'm talking about. But I'm. That my behavior that they see during the day at work or that my clients see is, is influencing them as well. So when I take a vacation, which I'm going on a 10 day vacation in like five days, I'm gonna go to California, see my parents and go to the beach and go hike Half Dome and everything, a lot of my
clients, they, they get it. I, I've noticed over time that, and they even told me over time, like the fact that you take vacations at them and that you seem to really enjoy it, that's, that's inspiring to me because I'm in a mindset, right. I don't feel like I can just disconnect and trust my team and trust other people. So they work all the time kind of thing, or even on vacations, they work. I know
a lot of people like that. And so if I can, if it inspires me to say, like, well, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to do this work stuff, even though it's going to be extremely tempting, I'm not going to go and plug into that because I'm going to, I'm going to take this time to be rejuvenated. So I'm better for my clients and I'm better for my team and I'm better for my community because I'm young again. That's rejuvenation. So that, that I'm being, that helps me and it helps me also to
just acknowledge that I don't have to have it all figured out. I mean, that's a, that's a belief that if I'm sloppy and messy because, because even my team right now, I, I'm using a new, a new system for holding meetings and I don't understand It's. It's the EOS system from Traction, and I like it a lot. And I've. I've actually used. I've had a lot of clients
use it, and it's great. I mean, I love the book, but I've realized that I'm not actually applying this with my own team, and I don't know how to use it very well. So I'm really. I'm really kind of sloppy. I'm making a lot of mistakes. I'm like, But. And part of me on one side is saying, like, well, they're not going to think you're good enough as a leader. You know, like, you're letting them down because you're not.
So you don't have it dialed in. And then part of me is like, it's okay that they see that, because they can see that I'm staying on my. Out of my own drama, and I'm not giving up on this thing. I mean, I know that it works. I've seen it work, and I've seen how you can have structured meetings that really work. And I've. I would say on a scale 1 to 10, I give myself like a. Like a 3 or a 4 over the last couple of weeks. But that's okay because that's insight I'm gaining
to say, like, I can correct this, I can correct that. And even this, the parts of running, of owning a business that I'm not great at and learning to delegate that, learning to improve myself in the process, it's. It gives me the freedom to say, like, it's okay, it's okay. But then I'm focusing on how much I'm still gaining in the process, and that comes out with other people. So I'm leading by example. Great question. Have you always seen yourself as the leader or was
there a turning point? I. I've had times where I have. It's a both and. And I think, yes, yes and no. So it's a. Most things in life are in the middle. It's a both and. So I have at times, and if I go back, I think of times when I. I was, gosh, I can go back to college and think, yeah, I was in situations where I was not engaging in certain behaviors and other people were, and it was great. So I. And I can think of times where I have taken the easy path and I've wanted to be comfortable
and. And I've been leaning more on convenience than actually doing the hard thing. So. And both are good. Both are good for me to Remember, Because I can remember the. The pain of just hiding out and isolating and not seeing this privileged position that we're all in as fathers and mothers and bosses and
business owners and people in our neighborhood and community. But. And at times I can reflect back, and it's good to think like, yeah, I led in that situation and that I don't know what kind of influence it had because sometimes you don't know until down the road that that actually impacted that person. It's very gratifying when, you know, but I don't always know. And I mean, I. I feel like there. There's times where, you know, going through a. A divorce and being a family
therapist back then, I felt like I can't. I can't lead. You know, I can't. This is not. I've disqualified myself from being a leader in this situation. And so I wanted to hide from it. You know, I wanted to not expose to anybody. I. And I did a good fear. I mean, not a great job at it, but I thought I was doing a pretty good job at it. And so. And then realizing over time that, you know, I can use that for good. And it's actually, I can empathize in a different
way. I can be with people in a different way now that I couldn't have been back then. And so I can still lead. I can still influence people. And those failures, if you define. I don't define failure as this really negative thing. I see failure as didn't go the way I hoped it would have gone. And I learned from it through course correction and making changes. So in that regard, I see myself as a leader because of failures in my life. And the turning point for me has been.
Well, there's a lot of turning points, but I mean, one major turning point lately has. Has been seeing that has. Has been. Well, has been the intentional remembering in situations of remembering of that. That change I've been somewhat related to, like, that impact, that situation I've been somewhat connected to. And. And so it's been a turning point in the last couple years that I am connected to these situations. And if I can intentionally remind myself that that is a
privileged position, it makes a big difference. So every day is. I can listen to either voice. No, you're not a leader. No, you are a leader. And I can send to focus on one more than the other. Yeah, well, what's the biggest myth you think people believe about leadership? That they're not a leader. That they are not in a position where somebody's watching and Being influenced by their life. And I think that's a scapegoat, sort of something to focus on. That's drama. It's.
It's going to take their attention away from making positive changes, from. From doing things that are going to influence other people. Because I don't find that much is more energizing to somebody than knowing that they can have an influence on other people's lives through how they live their life. So when they grasp that, it's very energizing and just saying I'm not a leader or I'm not qualified or I can't use my mistakes, I can't
use my failures to help other people. That's a scapegoat. That's just an easy way out. And those things might create roadblocks for them, they might create barriers for them, but those barriers could be exactly what they need because it directs them into the right direction. Yeah. To where they can have an impact. They think that's the way I want to have an influence. And that may not be where they're being called to have
an influence. In fact, it's not if there's a barrier there that's insurmountable because of whatever you've. You've had in your life. You know, I. I think there's certain barriers in my life. I go back even to. To thinking that, you know, I wanted to be in the military at one point after college, and I was a guy that. So I was going to become an officer in the Air Force. And I remember in my interview, they asked me a bunch of questions about whether or not I'd used any drugs in my past.
And I told him the truth. When I knew some other buddies that hadn't, that had. They had partied with me, I knew they were, you know, wild as. Like I was, and. But I. I just shared. Shot straight with them about some certain things that I had tried and mistakes I had made, and that disqualified me from being in the Air Force. And that was in 1999. I had friends that became officers in the military, and I knew that they were probably asked the same questions and they just were. They
didn't kind of shoot straight. And I'm not bashing them at all because I think, you know, to each, we have different approach and everything. But. But that. That limited me, but it really didn't limit me because it opened it up, opened up a door to the perfect path for me at that. In that situation in my life. And so I can be grateful for it now. Well, what daily or weekly habits have helped you grow as a leader. Daily having courageous conversations with a heart of peace that I'm
not procrastinating on. I'm looking for the right time to have them. But I go in with a willingness to have those conversations. And that can be with a client, that can be with someone that's a potential employee, that can be with somebody that is an employee that can be with somebody. I'm close to a friend. But to err on the side of saying, hey, I'm going to ask a question to
get clarity because questions can be triggering for people when you ask them. But get, but being willing to ask that question in that situation and then to be prepared for it too. So I find that if I know that I'm going to go down the path of having those harder conversations with people and, and I have one friend that says quality of your business. He's told me before is just keep having the hard conversations. Keep having the difficult conversations, like, oh great, you know,
because don't they end at some point where you don't have to have them? And it's like, no, you don't. But you get more skilled at it and the people around you know that it's going to be addressed. And people as a leader, they see that you're the one who doesn't hide from dealing with the difficult stuff. And, and if I go in with that, that, that mindset, that's a habit that I've been building and working on. Not perfectly, it's. I give myself on a scale 1 to 10, probably a 5 with that
one. But it's making a difference because I, I know the quality of the direction of the business is, is greatly influenced by that. And the impact that I have on other people is influenced by that as well. Hard conversations and those are in, in a variety of formats. I mean with, with vendors, with potential clients, with. And it's every day they abound with employees, with employees.
Right? Yeah. Right. So. So not airing to the side of just being reactive and not airing to the side of being passive, but being able to respond thoughtfully. So we correct it and then we worked better together because. Because it is this thing that. And this is my own hypocrisy because I can tell companies over and over again, like, you know, you grow and you're closeness and the cohesiveness of your team is going to go. It means directly
resolving conflicts. So going through the conflict. And I have to practice that and continue to make that a habit. How do you stay grounded and confident? When leading during uncertain times, it's being prepared for it. So getting enough sleep, getting enough exercise, taking the time to read, taking the time to work on my spiritual life, having good friendships. I noticed that if I take time to rejuvenate on the weekends, I'm better when I come to
work. I'm better when I talk to clients. I'm better when I engage in difficult conversations because I'm not bringing that baggage with me. So the daily action worksheet, which we did a podcast on, I think two or three episodes ago, practicing that, if I look at that and I channel my energy into seeing how I'm balancing my life, and it helps you to see what's good in your life, to get excited about things in your life, to see what you have to be excited about, to see what your wins are and
reflect on those, I mean, that's essential. For me, I definitely notice a connection in the way that I can confidently go into leadership situations influencing people. And I get you are. You are a leader with your clients. I mean, you're not perfect, you're a fellow traveler, but they're looking to you as somebody who can take them in the direction that they want
to go. So that company that I work with in their leadership team is looking to me to help facilitate the discussions that help them stay out of the drama and move towards and in the direction that they want to head in. So pretty. Pretty key. Maybe really the most essential, the most essential thing and that I can think of is just my own personal, in my own head perspective, kind of coming in with a good atom at a good place. Yeah. Yeah. And
when I don't, you know, when I have a bad. In a. I can think of situations where I. Gosh, I come to work and I think I did not bring my best self here today. And it's because of the decisions I made last night, this weekend. And I shake it off and I can hopefully even see over time, usually not until the next day when I say, I'm not going to do that again. You know, I stayed up late one night before work, and it just wasn't a good decision. And I was celebrating having some hard
work, client interactions, and they went well. And I'm like, I'm just gonna watch TV until midnight. You know, like, what am I thinking? I'm just gonna eat a big old bowl ice cream. In fact, not just one. I'm gonna have like three. And I'm thinking, dude, why Adam? You know, because it impacts my sleep. I mean, it's just Not a good thing for me to do, but I will do it. And then I have to, to live with that. But that can be
used. That can be used. That does not mean that you can just say. Which I can do is say I can kind of not have to worry about how I spend my time on the weekends or what I do in my relationships. I don't have to worry about because it doesn't really impact the way I run a business. No, that's not true. It impacts me as a dad, a friend, every area of my life. How do you balance being decisive with being collaborative? Well, I can use, it can be a bow. It's a both and when it's
healthy. So collaborate can also be an excuse. Where I abdicate is. I think that's the word. I give the decision to other people whose purpose, whose responsibility is not to make that decision. And so I have somebody to say, well, if it doesn't go well, I can say, you know, well, they were involved in that decision as well. But no, as a leader, the buck stops with you. You made that decision, you got some feedback. Hopefully you did collaborate, you were working
as a team. I don't believe you just go and make decisions on your own without collaboration. That's a healthy way of making decisions. That's how you get buy in. That's how you get people to actually get excited about the decision being made. And so I can go to both extremes. I can be the guy that just makes the decision sometimes because I want to, I want to think
about it anymore, let's just make the call. Or I can be the guy that over collaborates just to not have to take responsibility for the decision. But if I meet in the middle where I'm getting feedback, getting asking good questions because sometimes it, it's important to not make a decision over time. I mean, and a lot of decisions are that way. But are you doing the work now to have the interactions that give you more information so that you can make
that good decision? And that's the role of good collaboration. Consistently having those conversations and revisiting them and getting clarity, but me being willing to step into that. And that also means being willing to get opinions that differ from yours. So you have people around you that see things differently, that have a different approach. And you're willing to say we align enough that
they're a great addition to the team. We, we align enough that even though they may not believe in themselves, I believe in them and their feedback. Their, their, their feedback might sometimes be, well, I mean
it even could be that they, they bring some fear into their collaboration. You know, I know with my mom there are business decisions where she doesn't bring her own personal stuff and she's just super wise, like, like she can help me in certain aspects and I go to her for encouragement frequently, more so probably than ever. And there are some parts of my life that if I ask her for collaboration, so feedback, I know that it's going to fill,
it's going to feed fears in me. So you have to be very kind of careful who you go to with your goals, you know, with, with your fears. But it's been really encouraging to see like man, she's a great like business advisor and that's been just at age 51 I'm seeing this stuff because I would go and sort of put it all in the same bucket that, that, that fear and she'll admit
it. I mean she'll admit certain fears and they're not business related actually, they're, they're more personal things that could be fear based. And to have that wisdom, to step back from it and see it for what it is is really empowering, encouraging. Get excited about calling her. That's super cool. Yeah. What role does self awareness play in effective leadership? That's huge. If you can't step back from yourself and see that I am missing the mark here and be willing
to say I gotta correct that. I, if I want to go to where I want to go in my personal professional life, then let's make some adjustments here. So being self aware enough that I'm late to meeting sometimes, being self aware enough that sometimes I can exaggerate and embellish has been really important to me. So I'll even make notes to myself sometimes that don't embellish. You know,
don't oversell, don't. Yeah, it's an interview. I remember interviewing someone a couple weeks ago and I had put it on top, you know, don't embellish because I can do that and it's an over. It's like I'm very passionate about what I do and so I want them to be passionate about it too. So I'll paint a picture. That embellishment to me can also just
be leaving out some of the stuff. You're not lying, but you're misleading because you're leaving out some of the stuff that's really important to give context to that specific situation. So that's, that's a self awareness thing. Gaining self awareness. What do great leaders do that struggling leaders often Overlook. I find that great leaders are consistently putting energy into their perspective that I know I can't do this on my own and I know I can't think clearly about the situation with just
my own thinking. My own thinking is not going to always be healthy because my past and my fears are in intermixed with that. And so they find ways to get a healthy perspective about the situation. So for, for me personally I have to talk to a lot of different friends that own businesses. That, and that's been a huge change in my life over the last two, two and a half years is having a network of people that I can share my fears with and they can give me perspective on it. And then the, the
reverse happens too. They can share with me and I give them my perspective. And we're all in different industries which I find really cool because sometimes with the same industry some people have the same fears and I find they can add it or make you feel like you're not doing it right. But there's so much universal crossover in industries that having somebody outside, which is so cool for me too because all the stuff that we do at Decide youe Legacy is not in our industry. So we're
not actually helping other coaching companies. We're helping medical practices and, and manufacturing companies and companies that do construction and different industries that I don't know anything about. You know, it's like I don't know and that's a really great thing because I can't give direct advice on their industry but I can have this outside perspective that doesn't have their specific fears involved. Yeah, that gives them.
And sometimes that frustrates people too because they want to know like do this, do this, go. Here's a five step process to fix your business. But I don't ever find that really motivating and helpful for people because generally they have plenty of knowledge, they have plenty of expertise and they know where to actually get that expertise. And it's not through, it's not through what we offer with, with coaching to the leadership team. It's not that.
It's, it's some, it's a book, it's a, it's a process and it's well worth the investment of their time and energy to get that sort of expertise. But what we do is actually help them step back from it and have a clear, non biased, non industry related perspective. This is what they know will work and they get that clarity in the process. Really that's what I see. I see leaders doing and, and I find so Those are really people that are
great leaders. I find that they, they find out where they can go and get great advice and they're careful to not get it from a fearful person and a biased perspective that doesn't have the whole picture in mind. Right. Yeah. Well, how do you help others rise into leadership roles? You trust them like you. The more that the, the more, the less I trust a situation, a person, the, the more I try to control and, and say this is how it should be done and this is what should happen here. And then
at some point it's just anxiety provoking. I mean, control and anxiety just go hand in hand. Is a different kind of anxiety when you relinquish control. It's this excitement type of anxiety. Which anxiety are very similar. I mean the way the part of your brain, just how they impact you, just the hormonal impact. I mean the positive and negative can be very, very similar in a lot of, in a lot of regards, but they are very different in the energy that they give people and the
desire to go and act and face that thing. So, so when I, when I, when I trust somebody and they, they see that I believe in them and that can be a client, that could be a, an employee, that can be somebody in my family, it can be a friend and you realize how much they have to offer. So in this business networking group, I see a lot of this too, because people will, will share. And I remember somebody with me at some point, they said, man, you have what it takes. Like, look at, look at what
you're doing. Look at, he's. I would get down on myself saying, you know, this didn't go well, that didn't go well. You know, whatever. I mean, so maybe I'm sharing too much information here, but I mean, I share that because that can be encouraging to people because you have moments where you just don't feel like you're, you're, you're helping people as much as you want to. And then that, that outsider saying, you know, I, you, dude, you're selling yourself
short. You're offering a great service. I mean this is impacting people's lives and their futures. And then that can sink into me and it's a kick in the butt that's like, man, you know, that anxiety turns into energy to push forward. It makes it really worth it. Yep. How do you handle conflict or resistance on a team? You accept that it's going to happen. I, I feel like a lot of conflicts that by accepting it is validating it. I can see you're frustrated by this.
I can see you have some discouragement with this. I can see you don't like this. You're validating it and you're giving credence to it. You're actually realizing that's real to them and that's okay that they feel that way. And it's also okay, okay that you feel the way you do. So it doesn't have to be this deal breaker type thing that you can go through this, that you can actually navigate through it and see that there's something good at the other end. And then you hear what their
perspective is. Because the meaning behind the conflict may be different than the presenting issue. And in that situation where somebody, let's say you have conflict over their punctuality or the way they dress at work or their attitude at work, or a variety of things that you could get frustrated about and that could lead to some conflict. Conflict, meaning just some tension related to that issue. And if you explore it with some curiosity, you realize it's not
really punctuality that's the sim. That's the, that's the external manifestation of a deeper issue. And maybe they don't feel trusted and maybe they don't feel like you're clear enough on the expectations that need to be clearer. Maybe it doesn't mean that they're going to just resist
it from this point forward. It doesn't mean that they're not going to change. But if you're willing to see it as an opportunity, it's like when you, when you deal with objections from other people that might be your, an employee or a customer, and you can see those as actual opportunities to go deeper and explore what was missing in your presentation. What was missing in that situation. I mean, you don't, you don't push it to the nth degree. I mean, there's a tact to it. Yeah, but
you're, you're sensing that there's something deeper behind it. So you see it as a great opportunity to go deeper. And conflict is like that. It's, it's almost where you want to. And I've heard Patrick Lincione talk about in the Advantage, the concept of mining for conflict. So you're bringing it to the surface so that it's addressed and then it doesn't mean it's completely resolved in that situation, but it's not
avoided. And now you see what the real elephant issue actually is so that you can solve it and it doesn't become this other issue and another issue or manifest externally in some other form of resistance because you're giving credence
to it. And what I find is that over time, if you have a long game over time, you influence people in a way that moves the organization in the right direction because you're willing to actually sit and address and, and be still with the conflict, to feel your discomfort and to stay with it or to make or to redirect it to a better time and a place. That's all kinds of things you can do, but to not get consumed by it to where it immobilizes you and
you avoid it. Yeah. What have you learned about building trust in relationships? Well, I've already alluded to that a little bit here. So like trust comes from proximity because you're exposed to somebody, so you see evidence of their trustworthiness because consistency over time builds trust. And that proximity expos you to conflict and that conflict and how they handle it over
time starts to build trust because people know what they're getting. They know whether you're somebody who can handle it or somebody who will run away from it and get defensive. And that defensiveness that you get from people, which I can be around a lot of defensive people. I mean, defensiveness from clients, defensiveness from family, defense. I mean, I've been around a lot of defensive people. I mean, there's
been some situations in my life that have. Have just been tremendously conflictual and you know, like. And so I can even have a mindset that it's going to be a defensive response when I address something and that's not healthy because I'm setting an expectation that's not good right from the get go. And so I had a friend recently say that he asked his daughter to do things with him frequently. And she's a teenager and they have a, from what I can tell,
a pretty good relationship. But he gets discouraged because he asked her to go and play golf and to go on a walk and to go out to eat, to do things that she does like doing and she does do with her other, with her friends and with other family members and everything. But she
seems to say no to him. And there's been this pattern and, and one of his other friends, not me, I didn't actually say this, but I know another good friend of his said, well, you know, how's your heart when you go into asking and how much do you think you convey and communicate in the way that you ask? And his
response was like, he feels like his heart is good. Like. And he was frustrated and we talked about it because he felt like, well, I'm just asking and I'm not putting pressure and I'm not saying if you don't do this, I'm not going to, you know, want to spend time. Nothing like that at all. But he was checking his orientation towards her and that, that your, your attitude towards somebody builds trust. So, so. And I don't know, I'm not in those situations. I don't know whether or
not he was doing it right or doing it wrong. But in the conversation he was exploring, getting some self awareness, saying, well, may maybe I am going and already thinking it's not going to go well. And I'm carrying that to that interaction which could impact the way people trust somebody else. Yeah, because you're already coming in with some. An aura of defensiveness which, which I know I can do.
I know I can do that for sure. And I haven't still figured out completely how to do it except to try and understand where people are coming from. If I do step back and say, hey, this is what we're dealing with here and it's okay, it's because that's their situation. And I. How am I being challenged in this situation? If you can see your fears, if you can view your discomfort with gratitude because it reveals the work that you can do to grow, that's pretty powerful.
What kind of legacy do you want to leave as a leader? That, that and this. This comes down to really two big leadership concepts that I want to summarize in, in this episode. If I could sum up the two things that I believe are really impactful that I'm learning. And I really say that as a key is learning is that, is that a really good leader is able to pull that team, that person, help that person, not by force, but through influence, through building a relationship,
through building a relationship with other people around them. Not by correcting. That's probably the least effective thing you can do as a leader, correcting and teaching, but by listening and primarily by building a connection. By building a connection, by learning, by engaging, by asking questions. I want that to be my legacy. That I pulled them out of the drama in their own heads. Because I believe most external conflict is a, is a
manifestation of internal conflict. Not not being comfortable with who you are inside, not being comfortable in your own skin. And that comes out. And so if I can be remembered as somebody that pulled these, these families, these teams, I've done it. I mean, 25 years of family, therapist, being a lot of conflict that you get to see, but being pulled out and that the second thing is that I. I want to leave a legacy, that I'm willing to
go first, that I'm willing to go and do the hard thing first. So we. Whether that's in the. Having the hard conversations, being willing to change my lifestyle based on what's hard to do uncomfortable things, to be willing to make the call when it's hard to have the conversation, when it's hard to do the scary thing. I'm not, I mean, emotionally scary thing. And
that's never going to go away. It's always going to present opportunities, which is kind of exciting because every day's a new day where I can live that legacy I want to leave there. And, and that that's going to influence them more than anything because that's going to build some connection and I'm being watched. Leaders are conscious of the fact that they are being watched by other people. So their behavior does have an impact, even though they get no validation for
it necessarily at the. In the moment. Especially. What mistake or challenge has taught you the most about leadership. Definitely looking back and saying, I played it safe there. I didn't do that thing that I know was a good thing that I can do, could do. I decided not to do it and be stuck in my head. And perfectionism, procrastination, they go hand in hand. I've just been stuck in that, refining, refining all that. And to look back and say, you know what? I just did it.
When I just made the call, when I just had the conversation, when I just challenged the client, when I just shot straight and I brought up that topic, that was some inconsistency that I'm seeing because I'm leading them out of the drama towards where they want to go. And knowing when I didn't do that, that's hard for me. That's hard for me to sit back and go home at the end of the day and say, I could have done better there. But it's also great because then I
learned through those moments. So it teaches me every day what I could have done differently and do I want to learn those lessons. That's the challenge too, is from. Is is being willing to sit with that discomfort that I didn't do what I wanted to do today, but I can do it tomorrow. And I know when I leave at the end of the day that when I've done these things that are hard, that I'm going to feel
a different level of energy and also want to do more of them. Because I notice that on those productive Days when I'm doing the stuff that I know I need to do as a leader, then I wanted to do more of it. More of it, more. Because I know how much energy that actually gives me. It's a really great kind of energy that you face something that's nothing like that when you've done something that you have faced emotionally and you feel
good about it, you know. And for me, where I'm growing now is that is trusting people. That's a. The main thing is learning how to trust. That's been my big lesson, that. Learning how to trust again over the last three years. I would say that's been huge for me. Big, big deal. That is putting myself. Yeah, it's hard. And putting myself in situations where I have to trust people. And then sometimes there's situations where, where they just
remind me of situations where I've been burned in the past. So it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. But it, it's, it's super helpful to, to, to be able to reflect on that and see the good stuff, to see the gains in that. What's one small action someone can take today to become a better leader? You can start today by, by going first. And what I mean is that you can make a commitment. I like to write it down somewhere
where I see myself write it down. I tell myself that if I hand write it, it's going to stick in my brain more because it's going through my hand to my brain, and there's something about that. And I don't have no idea whether that's really true because it's not what I always do when I make a commitment.
But I do find myself, even if it's something where I'm making a list and I'm writing out and typing out this, this, this thing I'm afraid of, it's given a presentation or having a courageous conversation, when I still write it down, handwrite it, like, I'm going to do this, help me. Then I find that it actually sticks better. So where your fear is, there lies your task. Carl Hung. I mean, where your fear is. So what am I
going to. What am I going to do? I mean, you're. You today are taking a big step of faith because I know that. I believe Kelsey. I know that you can do something like interview me. I know you can do things that are. And you do. I see you do a lot of courageous things. I've seen you do a ton of courageous things in your life and continue to be willing to say yes. So that's the same thing I would challenge everybody else is to say yes to that thing that you know would be a good thing for you to do
that could get you to the next level. Yes. Just like you've done today. You said yes and you did it. And, and that's a really exciting thing. So I wanted to go ahead and summarize, kind of wrapping it up. If you if you found this podcast helpful on leadership, you'll find Shatterproof Yourself Light a meaningful exercise. You go through a 25 minute video and it's broken down on the Decide youe Legacy app in little sections that are
manageable. And then you complete a worksheet that goes with it. It's seven small steps to a giant leap in your mental health. These are actions, simple actions I believe leaders want to do and can do things fast and in a simplified format. So you just jot down your answers, things that come to mind on this worksheet, and you're going to find it impactful to you and your perspective and
your belief in yourself. So you want to hit the link to check out Shatterproof Yourself Light and it's going to guide you through that worksheet and give you some really inspiring actions you can take starting today. And in addition to that, if there's something that's resonated with you today, and I know there probably is, related to leadership and influence, I want you to make it your mission that by the end of the day you're going to apply something that you've learned.
So, and even if it's a mindset shift, that I have influence there and I have a lot to offer in that situation and I can take that step and I can go first in that situation. I'm going to go first. I'm going to commit today. So make a commitment. Because change happens when we take action. 80% of transformational change is taking an action. 20% is insight. Don't get stuck in insight that's not nearly as impactful as the action. You need some insight. You get
some clarity. You get those moments where it's like, that would work for me. And you had some of those today, but you got to take action on that for it to actually stick. So I want to summarize these two big leadership concepts from today. One is that leaders pull people out of the drama, towards the progress, towards the vision, towards that ideal. Help them to get there one step at a time and challenge them to get out of that.
Point them to it. Don't necessarily bluntly say you're in drama. Get out of the drama. No, it's like, hey, ask questions that get them out towards and that can you just be just healthy, Good old healthy. Deflection can pull people out of drama because people are stuck in that. You as a leader can pull them out of that. And then leaders go first. They're willing to be seen and their actions are influencing their kids, their spouse, their team, their company, their community.
All kinds of people that can motivate you. So remember those two lessons. So nothing will make my day and inspire me more than if you share with me some action that you applied from this podcast today. Take action and follow to side your legacy. Give us a rating and review Apple, Spotify, check us out on YouTube. We're going to give you some other meaningful, valuable content if you check out that content as well. So to decide means to eliminate other options. You all
have so many decisions you can make. Leaders make a lot of decisions every day. You decide by saying, that's the best choice for me to make today. Your legacy is the impact that your life has on other people. It's not about you. It's about the impact you can have on other people's lives. You decide your legacy today. Your legacy is going to be impacted greatly by the decisions that you make. So live the life today that you want to be remembered for 10 years after you're gone. You
decide your legacy, nobody else. I appreciate you greatly and I'll see you next time.