What if Betty Boop traveled from the cartoon world to our world? Including Boop: The Musical on Broadway!

>> Rob: Grab your garters. It's time to boop boop B doop. And welcome to Deer Watchers, an Omniversal Combook podcast where we do a deep dive into the multiverse. >> Guido: We are traveling with you through the stories and the worlds and the music and the cartoons and the stages that make up an omniverse of fictional realities we all love. And your watchers on this journey are Me, Guido. >> Rob: Grampy. >> Guido: Goop. No, Grampy'better. Than Guido group. Guido Goop. Sounds like. Like I'm a big fanboy of Goop. And yeah, that's true. >> Rob: That's tr. >> Guido: Grampy. I'll be Grampy. That means you're Pudgy. >> Rob: Yes, I'm Pudgy. Hello, this is M. Me, Rob. And before we begin our trip back to the jazz Age, Gido, what's new in our little section of the multiverse? >> Guido: Well, we just got our New York Comic Con four day passes. So though it's a few months away, it is the happiest time of the year. And my favorite days of every year, no matter what else happens. Sorry to everyone I know and love not. >> Rob: Not the happiest time. Waiting in the queue, wondering if we're going to get the four day passes. >> Guido: Yeah, we had some mix up with our pro applications, but nonetheless, we're going in October every day. Can't wait to see people there. Can't wait to report from there. So I think that's the only thing that's new. Cause we're right on the precipice of that big superhero summer we've been talking about. And we'll have some superhero episodes to come along with that. But this is steering us away and happened because we went to a live show. And this is our first ever coverage of a live show, which is kind of fun. Well, maybe, maybe one day we'll do Spider Man, Turn off the Dark. But we'll have to wait till you read the history book about that you just got. >> Rob: Mmm. Or it's a bird. It's a plan. It's Superman U. >> Guido: We just got that record. That's true. Yeah, that's true. But this is our first foray into that. So hold on tight and I don't know, watch the ghost lights. I can't think of a theater reference. >> Rob: Exactly. If you're joining us for the first time, we have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today. Origins of the story, Exploring multiversity and pondering possibilities. So thanks for coming along and remember. >> Guido: Go to deerwatchers.com to find our old episodes, find us on social media, and do leave us a five star review and tell a few friends about us. >> Rob: And with that, dear watchers, welcome to episode 162. And let's check out what's happening in the Omniverse with our travels, today's alternate universe. And today we are Jazz to answer the question, what if Betty Boop traveled from the cartoon world to our world? >> Guido: Oh, what a question. Well, we've never covered Betty. We never imagined we'd cover Betty, but we have covered Fleischer cartoons. Yes, Fleischer. Everyone's gonna learn about created Betty Boop. And when did we talk about Fleischer cartoons? Well, they did that gorgeous Superman animated cereal back in the day, and we covered it back in the day three years ago. like this month, like next week from when we're recording this on episode 51. So I think you should head back there to hear about the Fleischer cartoon Superman. And we're gonna get into the Fleischer cartoon Betty Boop. They did not ever have a crossover, but now I kind of want that. And we're going to call this Earth. Boop boop doopp. >> Rob: I love it. And let's talk a little bit about our backgrounds with Betty Boop. I'll go first this time because y. I thinkid know we say all the time on the show when we're talking about, say, like, the origins of the Fantastic Four, some of these Marvel characters, you just know who they are without ever actually maybe even reading it. Like, people know Superman's backstory. And I think this is kind of the same with Betty Boop. Like, even if you've never watched a Betty Boop cartoon, which I don't know if I really ever did until preparing for this episode and after seeing the musical, but you just know who she is. Like, you know how she talks. You kind of know that there's something to do with jazz and singing. So I feel like she's always been around and I've always known who she is, even though I never actually consumed DTY media. >> Guido: I guess it's the thing with these licensed images, because I'm thinking ob, for obvious reasons, I'm comparing her in my mind to, like, a Marilyn Monroe. But there's plenty of people who've probably never seen a Marilyn Monroe movie, never listened to Elvis, never watched I Love Lucy. And those are, like, three of the biggest license images. And I think Betty's probably up there, honestly, with the three of them. So outside of Like a Superman, Batman. I think Betty Boop, Lucille Ball, Marilyn Monroe and Elvis ah are like the international licenses. If you go into like any gift shop you can find something with your. >> Rob: Face on it and a lot with like things with like cars and motorcycles. Like I can picture her on like the car flaps on like a truck. >> Guido: Yeah. Oh, that's true. She probably does intersect with like car culture in part cause hot ro people's nostalgia, but in part cause she's you know, a sassy, brassy, black haired, jazzy, sort of edgy, sexy cartoon. So. >> Rob: And then I think a lot of people who are around our age might know her actually from who frame Roger Rabbituse she has m a cameo in that. So I. >> Guido: Well she had two 80s movies too which we'll talk about. But because unlike you, I did watch these cartoons and I really have no idea how or why. I wish I could remember, but I can't. I can't remember if they would put them on. Like I want to say they were on like early morning cartoons maybe on like channel 9 or 11 in the new York City area or I don't know if they stuck them on Nickelodeon sometimes. I really have no idea how I consume these. It's not that I grew up around fans of Betty Boop. My mother is probably not probably the opposite of a fan. She probably hated Betty Boop. I have no idea. So I don't know why. But she was more out there in the 80s I suspect than in the 90s. And so I would watch these sometimes. I remember finding them a little boring at times. I always wanted the ones that were a bit wackier and I always wanted the ones that had songs in them. And that's all I can really remember otherwise like you, I just know of her. I couldn't have told you any trivia about her, any antic she gets up to. I really couldn't have told you much, even though I consumed it a bit more as a child. >> Rob: Well, one thing I love that because of the age of our parents and also what was still on TV at that time. I think you and I were some of the last generation to really be ingrained with black and white things like you watch like Bewitched or I Love Lucy, like you mentioned in Betty Boop, cartoons are in black and white. Now I know our friends that have much younger kids, like something's on in black and white, they instantly want to turn it off. Like they're not even used to something. >> Guido: Wrong with the screen. >> Rob: Exactly. But I think I Love that, that. So even though I didn't know Betty Boop, like, I think like we were still probably being exposed to stuff from this era on, like syndicated television back in. >> Guido: Yeah, like the Superman serial. I mean the cartoon was color, but the serial was black and white and. Yeah. And some of the Tech Avery cartoons were black and white and I feel like they used to come on in like the blocks with Looney Tunes. So yeah, I think you're right. A lot of that permeated and has, ah, sadly perhaps gone away. But let's see if Betty might be making a comeback. >> Rob: Yes, well, let's throw on a cab callaway record and go back to origins of the story. >> Guido: Right now on this very show, you're. >> Rob: Gonna get the answer to all your questions. Our amazing story begins a few years ago. >> Guido: All right, so I'm gonna kick us off with some background. Since this is a bit of a more unusual character. We're going toa give some history on her creation and her lore before we dig into her origins that we read or watched in this case. So Betty Boop is a character designed by Grim Natwick, which is a great name, but apparently a pseudonym for Myron Nordwig. I don't know which name's better. I don't know. I don't know how you even come up with Grimick. That's unclear to me how. >> Guido: This person did that. But he created Betty with Max Fleischer who is co conceived her. Her first appearance is in the cartoon dizzy dishes from August 9, 1930. Of course, she is a dog in that. More on that in a moment. This episode of Dizzy Dishes is the seventh episode of the talk cartoon series. >> Rob: I love that name. >> Guido: It doesn't. It like works but doesn't totally like. I don't know what caroon guess is it? I guess ca because it's talkies. Because we know that Fleischer worked in silence before that. But then it's art or cartoon or I don't know, Talk. Talk. Cartoon. Yeah, not sure. But when she does make her debut, surprise. For most people, including us, she was a poodle. So she was quite literally an anthropomorphic French poodle inspired by flappers and singers such as Clara Bow and Helen Kane, who sang in a baby voice and introduced the catchphrase boop boop doop. Who soed the Fleischers saying that Betty was a deliberate character she lost. But it was later admitted that the character was indeed inspired by Cain. And even the first few voice actors who played Betty had participated in a Helen Kane impersonator contest. And if you haven't listene to Helen Kane, go listen Helen King. Because it really is, it's endearing and fun. But she's singing it a baby voice, so it, gets annoying after. >> Rob: Like, it's funny that, like, Betty has sustained. Like we said, everyone kind of knows who Betty Boop is. And Helen Caane has kind of faded away, like a lot. Even people like us who really love things from this era probably don't know Helen Kane very well. >> Guido: No. She even got a comic made to beat Betty's comic strip and she had it called Helen Kane the Original Boop Boop Bo Doopp Girl. I don't think that lasted though. I don't even know if it. >> Rob: This reminds me, survived the Myan Nurmi Vampirea and Elvira battles as well. >> Guido: It could be a little. Although this one feels more explicit. That one I think is more in the ether. So within a year of her debut, though, Betty transitions from her human canine breed to a completely human female character. But don't worry, she still has an animal boyfriend. And by the release of Any Rags, the short, she was established as a human forever. First voiced by Margie Hines and then most famously by May Questel, who was also the aunt in National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. >> Rob: Yes. And Betty was featured in 90 theatrical cartoons from 1930 to 1939. She was dubbed the queen of the animated screen. And Betty's phils were revived by Paramount in 1955 and eventually became part of the 1960s counterculture, which I guess is. >> Guido: How they got on mud flaps and motorcycles. >> Rob: Exactly. Yeah. And her popularity, and this is kind of where your knowledge of her really comes in, Guido. Because her popularity was really that helped by VHS releases, those probably super cheap cartoon compilations and cable TV as well. >> Guido: Well, because a lot of her cartoon are public domain. There's a handful that are owned and her rights are complicated and maybe we'll talk more about that later. But her. A lot of them are public and I think all of them are on YouTube, regardless of ownership. But a lot of them are public domain. >> Rob: Well, we'll talk a lot about her in comics. But she also had a comic strip from 1934 to 1937. Everyone had a comic strip and that. >> Guido: Yeah, but that's such a short time. I mean, when you think about a, Superman comic strip or a Spider man comic strip or Dick Tracy, like those things lasted or the things you read, Jud Parker and all those. Yeah, they last for 50 years. >> Rob: Remember Lois Lane had a comic strip that was very short lived as well, so. But that actually comic strip, or her as a comic strip character was actually revived in 84 to 88 but she was alongside Felix the Cat then. And in 1990 First Comics published a one shot entitled Betty Boop's Big Break. >> Guido: There was also a 3D issue around. >> Rob: I love to check that out. >> Guido: And D don't worry, I ordered it. >> Rob: For issue series in 20. 17. >> Guido: 2016. >> Rob: Right, 2016. >> Guido: 2016. 17, yeah. >> Rob: Which cover it a bit. And she also had several film projects that never really came to fruition. I think she's one of those characters that every few years there was like a film project that popped up. She did have those TV films that you mentioned in 85:89, that cameo appearance in who Framed Roger Ra? And as you kind of mentioned she's got very kind of messy rights and maybe that's one of the reasons why the on screen revival hasn't really come. You can kind of read all about that on Wikipedia. >> Guido: Great. But so we watched some of her origin here. Though her origin is never really told but we treated her origin ah, canon as the cartoons. >> Rob: Yes. So these are the Betty boopb cartoons from 1930 to 1939 and we watched a good handful of these. >> Guido: Yes, there are over a hundred and. >> Rob: They are what we. >> Guido: But for the most part they're directed by David Fleischer and produced by Max Fleischer. And for the most part they're animated by Grimm Natwick. But a whole bunch of other people, sometimes credited, sometimes not, are doing the work on these cartoons which were short films. And what did you think visiting them M for you for the first time ever. >> Rob: Not what I expected because. Well, we all kind of know her as kind of this jazz age character that she's a singer butop girl ye boo boop doop. But what I didn't really know was the world that she's put into. So she kind of like kind of goes about the world and like she's almost the normal one. And then it's one of those. The cartoon style which is so amazing. You can see why this part maybe it happened with the counterculture in the 60s because it's got this psychedelic thing where like if she takes a sip out of a coffee cup and puts it down m then the coffee cup becomes animated and like starts to talk. It's like every single thing in the world becomes semianthropomorphized. And it's a lot. There's like Literally something happening all the time, but which is so impressive. I mean I thought it looked better than cartoons I saw decades later. >> Guido: Yeah, it does have great. I mean the Fleischer studio was just. There's a reason that name is so famous in cartoons and it frankly probably should be even more famous because it's incredible. So I think the quality is there. The other thing that the cartoon does for people who are not as familiar with it, which again we were not, either they adapt a lot of existing stories, they'll adapt fairy tales, or they'll use songs from that era and create a short around a song and do some wacky stuff with that. We watched a, Snow White one. We watched an Alice in Wonderland one though. It's called Betty in Blunderland. There's a Jack and the Beanstalk one. I mean they really were having a lot of fun with it. It was not trying to tell the serious story I think that you or many people would expect. It wasn't trying to like tell the story of Betty the lounge singer. She was just a wacky character. >> Rob: Yeah, yeah. I had no idea that there were these parodies that existed. And something like Alice in Wonderland when lends itself so well to the Betty Boop world of the Fleischer style. Because already you have this kind of exaggerated, almost ellucinogenic source material which they're able to take and even run with it further. But the other thing that struck me to is there's also some And of course we just watched a handful of episodes, but there's also some political commentary in Totally that surprised Runs for president. >> Guido: She runs for president. There's one where she becomes judged for a day. >> Guido: And she becomes judged because she gets so irritated at what everyone's doing. So like she goes after the people who are spitting their gum out on the street. And like she goes after all these, these misdemeanors because she's just upset with the quality of life. And I think that's the part that surprised me on, on watching these or I guess rewatching them, though I don't count. It is. She has a fully developed perspective. I don't think I was expecting that. I think I would imagine she'd be sort of just this girl with a squeaky voice who sings and looks sexy. But she really has a viewpoint and a characterization that's consistent. She's sort of, she's. I wouldn't say innocent or naive, but she looks at the world really with love and joy and she wants to like Take care of the world and wants the world to be happy. And so she has this sensibility that's pretty consistent whether she's dealing with like some conflict in the club or whether she's running for president. Like she wants things to be love and, and together and community. And it's, it's interesting to see that it's. Yeah. Not cynical at all, which I think I was kind of expecting it to be from for a 1930 cartoon. Right. 1930 were a year after the Depression. But no, yeah, there, ah. >> Rob: There's almost a. It's almost like if you mash together a bit the sensibilities of Disney and Warner Brothers, like you have the heart of some of the Disney cartoons, but then you have some of the wackiness of the. And the slapstick tunes. But not the cynicism that you have of a character like Bugs Buddy or Daffy Duck. >> Guido: No, no. And then you put it together with like the Tex Avery art style. So there you go. It's a fusion of all the classic iconic animation studios at this time. That's a great comparison. >> Rob: I definitely think and I'm sure you'll agree, like these will be things that I think we'definitely throw on to watch. And they're so digestible. They're short. They're definitely. >> Guido: Yeah, they're generally seven to nine minutes. >> Guido: Yeah, they're. They're really easy and fun to watch. There's some that shift focus to her cast of characters who will learn more about coming up. There's some that are mostly pudgy episodes. The dog. There's some that are mostly Coco the Clown episodes. There's some that are Bimbo the Cat episodes. And then there's some that are Grampy episodes. Who she lives with or sometimes lives with or whatever. So it's fun how it goes in and out of that. And then there's some, like I said, where they'll do live action actually and put her in it. So there's people. There's one we haven't watched yet where Ethel Merman sings a song and she's there like. So they do all sorts of stuff. They have her with soldiers, so I'm assuming, I'm sure they don't get serious, but they, they're dealing with real world events certainly. So really interesting world to get into. >> Rob: Well, are you ready to give your regards to Broadway Eda? >> Guido: If I knew the next line, I'd say it, but I don't remember me. >> Rob: To Harald Square. >> Guido: There we go. >> Rob: Explore multiversity. >> Guido: I am your guide through these vast new realities. >> Rob: Follow me and ponder the question. >> Guido: What if? >> Rob: And this is Boop the musical which opened on March 2025 at the Broadhurst Theater on Broadway. And of course we're answering the question what if? Betnie Boop traveled from the cartoon world to our world. >> Guido: And this was entirely inspired by us seeing this musical live on stage about a week ago. And the soundtrack is out if anyone wants to go listen to it. The book is by Bob Martin, the music is by David Foster, lyrics are by Susan Burkhead, it's directed and choreographed by Jerry Mitchell. Though the Fleischers were very heavily involved in this production. Or the ancestors of the Fleischers who control which is still even run. >> Rob: By a Fleischer in the family. >> Guido: Yeah, it is a Fleischer. And he, he even we later learned approved of the casting. He chose the Betty and who got lots of notoriety. So the book writer here wrote and starred in the drowsy chaperone on Broadway comedy and later co wrote Elf the Musical, the Prom and some episodes of Smash or the Music the music Smash the musical. Smash the music here David Foster, he has 16 Grammy Awards and 47 nominations. One of those people you've never heard of and yet has so many awards and acclaim in the music industry. Produced and wrote for Whitney Houston, Kenny Loggin, Celine Deion and many others, including his song the theme from St. Elis Fire. >> Rob: Yes, not the song with the lyrics, but the instrumental theme which was so popular it'still charted. >> Guido: And the lyrics of this show is a musicals writer, Susan Burkhead, who did the musicals to Working Jelly's Last Jam and Triumph of Love. And the choreographer choreographed Hairspray Kinky Boots and created Broadway Bears, the annual fundraiser. So a good mix of a team for some classic Broadway feel I think, which is what you definitely get out of the show. Why don't you give us the official synopsis which is not really a synopsis and then we'll dig into it. >> Rob: Yes. So Betty Boop longs for an ordinary day from fame in her black and white world. Off from fame in her black and white world. What she finds is an extraordinary adventure of color, music and love in New York City. So that is the very spoiler free version for anyone it is wants to stay. >> Guido: So if you care about spoilers, we're about to spoil it. And what I will say before we spoil it, I think we both agree we can get out of the way right now that we both loved this and you should go see it. And if you can't go see it, if you can't get to New York City, to Broadway to go see it, you should listen to the soundtrack and consume it. It's fantastic for fans of musicals, Betty Boop, or anything else even remotely connected to those things. So right now, go see it. And if you're gonna care about spoilers, pause this and come back and listen after you see it. But if you don't care about spoilers, what really happens? Rob, how does she get her day off from fame? >> Rob: Yeah. Cuz in this world, she is like the M in her world, which is all in black and white. Very cool. It's like the car. >> Guido: Very cool stage effects. >> Rob: Very cool stage effects. It's like the cartoon really does exist, and she's like the biggest star in the world, and she's always making these short films. So she wants just like one day where she's not the most famous person in the world. And Grampy, who's a character from the cartoons, her grandfather is also an inventor. He happens to invent this chair that can go into the multiverse. So she goes into it and then is transported into our reality. >> Guido: Yeah. 2025 New York City. our reality for sure. >> Rob: And when that happens, Guito, where did she land? Because we both, like, let out, I think, audible noises in the Broadheart Theater. >> Guido: It is so good. Comic book fans who are listening, who are like, what are you talking about? Why would I go see Boop the Musical? This is why. Because she comes through the dimensional portal and lands at the Javits center at New York Comic Con. And I'll tell you, the stage looks like the Javit Center. Like, they've got the Glassass or whatever it'ing up. they have the New York Comic Con by Reed Pop official logos and signs everywhere. Clearly got permission or worked with them or even got paid by them or however all that works. No idea. She lands there and encounters a whole array of cosplayers and characters from Comic Con, from the Scarlet Witch to Donatello the Ninja Turtle to Pikachu to Cyclops. Someone dresses Cyclops who fires his optic beams during a song, and they have this whole effect on the screen. It is so crazy. It was completely unexpected. We had no idea. And it's really fun. Yeah, it's awesome. >> Rob: It's fun because there're people cosplaying as the characters. So it's not just like, oh, that's persons dressed as Pikachu. It's like someone in like a Pikachu hoodie and it's like, this is exactly what you see at New York Comic Con. >> Guido: What's so cool. And I won't. I don't want to, like, get into the ins and outs of the show, though I suspect you and I could talk about the ins and outs of the show and the beats it hits. But in that one, I'd say that song is when it really pulled me in, because, first of all, as I said at the start of the show, New York Comic Con is my happy place. And she arrives there, and what's striking to her is all the color, but it's a way of her expressing how beautiful the world feels to her and how all these cosplayers are a part of that, and it's so cool. For people who love Comic Con, it's a really beautiful moment, and it sets off the heart of this show, which I think you and I both really felt deeply. And, yeah, is so well done, so. >> Rob: And they all think she is someone cosplaying as Betty Boop. So, yeah, it works there. And then she meets this family, mixed family in New York, a guy, a younger, like, teenage girl. And there's kind of then a whole plot around running from a mayor, saving New York City. But really also then Grampy back in kind of boop. World needs to go into our world to get Betty because hop world is kind of collapsing without her because it. >> Guido: Only exists for her. So it's a kind of, a. There's really cool. So this is the other thing that neither of us were expecting at all. Didn't know a thing about this show, truly, before we went in. And it fits into what we do on this podcast all the time, because it was telling a really interesting meta story. Not a lot of wink, wink, nudge, nudge, which neither of us are big fans of. It was very sincere in its telling of this. This multiversal, interdimensional story. But that aspect of it, the Boop. World and the rules of it had such cool world building to think about. Like, what happens when this whole world does exist for this character and she's pulled out of it, like, that world can'exist anymore. And so slowly it's fading away or collapsing or it's gonna end. >> Rob: It feels like something also you might see in, like, a Doctor who episode or something like that. Very that way. And very much like an interesting, almost like this Truman show idea that I'm sure everyone in their life has. Has thought of at one time. It's like, am I the main character? Like, in this story and like what would happen without me? And this is exactly like she is the main character. Everything in her world actually exists in order to support Betty. >> Guido: Yeah. The other cool comic bookie thing with that is then the inverse direction that. That you and I also both really loved, which is what happens when our world learn she's a cartoon character. >> Rob: M. >> Guido: And it's really well handled. It's handled in that U, not quite Muppets way because it is acknowledged. Unlike the Muppets which go unacknowledged. I don't know what to compare it to. Maybe who Framed Roger Rabbit? I don't want to. I don't want to like lock this in with that, but in who frame Roger Rabbit. He's a cartoon character. They know he's a cartoon character, but they also don't think it's completely insane that he's a cartoon character. And that's what happens here. Like it's very weird. It's hard for people to sort of process that she's from this other dimension and a cartoon character and then they accept it and she's the world's most famous cartoon character and that becomes a part of the plot. And that aspect of it is fun. It's a little sci fi comic bookie for sure. Fun stuff about dimensions and where you belong and how you deal with all of that. >> Rob: So and we should give special shout out, I think to Jasmine Amy Rogers, who plays Betty. She's M in like almost every scene. It's a big, big role. amazing singer, really great performance and really, I think like for someone kind of going back to how we started this conversation too, like she really embodies Betty but at the same time isn't for folks like me who are going into it kind of just knowing the idea of Betty Boop and how knowing her through osmosis, like you're not reliant on being a bitty Boop fan to enjoy it. And a lot of that is through her performance. >> Guido: Well, she's funny and charming and super talented. There are great jokes which you are very critical of jokes on the stage in particular, I'd say we saw a string of shows this spring and none lived up to the humor of Boop for sure. They land some good jokes that don't take away from the heart either. And she is a huge part of that. Tony nominated, probably should have won, but certainly should have performed on the Tonys because she was outstanding and is worth seeing the show for. But truly everyone is fantastic. I mean it's really a fantastic show. And again, I think comic book fans who, care, couldn't care less about Betty Boop or musicals would be surprised at how much there is in this show for you to take out of it. >> Rob: And there's a Pudgy the Dog who's a marionette, but it's like an amazingly done marionette, which is very exciting. Yeah, I think anyone should go out and see it now, hopefully. You know, we are hoping that it's still running in October because I think it would actually be a great thing for anyone who is a Comic Con fan, like, to be in the hall and like walking through and then go see the show. It would be great. And of course there's so many comic fans that are coming to New York during that time. Like, this would be a great way to like occupy your evenings and then you get to sit down after being on your feet all day. >> Guido: That's true. And we didn't spoil how it ends. So do you. Again, good multiversal storytelling. It is very family friendly, but good multiversal storytelling. There are some rules, there are some stakes that need to be dealt with and they do a really good job of it. So I loved it. It got you and me into Betty Boop and it got us to do this episode. >> Rob: Yes. So let's wrap up with our pondering possibilities. Will the future you describe be averted? >> Guido: Diverted? Diverted. >> Rob: So, Guido, what are we talking about for pondering possibilities? >> Guido: Well, I'm afraid to break it to our listeners, but we broke one of our rules. Generally, we like our three segments to be chronological, but we had to break that rule because the musical was the perfect multiversal centerpiece. >> Rob: So multiversal. >> Guido: But what we're talking about are actually her most recent comics, though that makes them nine years old. But these are her most recent comic books, stories that are being told and we will dig in and give you an overview. >> Rob: Yes, this is Betty boop issues number one through four from Dynamite Comics from 2016. >> Guido: So these are written by Roger Landridge. They're drawn by Giselle Laase. They are colored by Victoria Roboato or Pete Patanzas, depending on the issue. And then there are some. And Giselle did the lettering. Also there's some variant cover artists, including like Howard Chicken on issue one, which was very unusual. But Roger Landridge is probably most famous for, I think Muppet Comics. Most people probably know him from that. He's a New Zealand creator who'got started writing for Judge Dred magazine, created a character called Fred the Clown did write a Popeye book, also a Fleischer property for idw. And Giselle Laase, she is actually a bassist in a band, like a punk band or something. And an artist from Montreal. We actually met her at a con some years ago because she drew Archie and the Ramones. We think one of the Archie crossovers. She created a series called Menaa Tois and penciled Archie at times. So why don't you give a summary of these issues and then we'll talk through them. >> Rob: Yes. So Betty, Coco the Clown, Bimbo the Dog and Sally swing work for Mr. Finkel at the Oopaooe Club with headliners. >> Guido: Try to say that three times fast. That wholeington. >> Rob: That whole. Yeah, that's a lot of lot ofil Scottellington. Yeah, there go Betty wants to be a singer and a movie star, but really isn't given a chance. Meanwhile at home, Grampy is repeatedly being tricked out of his home by a giant reptile named Lizard Lips. Lenny, Lizard Lips and a trio of ghosts who want to haunt Grampy's house and also claim Betty's soul for the devil. >> Guido: Yes, you the most innocent soul because it's the most instance allar is. >> Rob: Exactly. And real quick. So Coco and Bimbo both pre day Betty as Fleischer creations. In fact, Bimbo and Betty, you kind alluded to this earlier. They actually dated for a while but this had to be changed once the code went to effect. >> Guido: The haye code that is in the production code for the motion pictures which isane they were seen as an inter deal with that. >> Rob: And obviously some of that romance kind of comes into these issues. Sally Swing was a one off character in a single Betty movie with the hopes that she would take off on her own, but never did. And she was voiced by Rosemae there from Dick Van dycke show. And Mr. Finkel, Scat Skellington and Lizard Lips, they were all created for this dynamite series. >> Guido: Yeah. And so this dynamite series, if I had to guess, was planned as an ongoing. It definitely feels like it structurally, it feels like it story wise narratively. And again. Roger Landridge had some success on the Muppets. He would do a ton of miniseries for the Muppets, but they would go on and he'd do one volume, another volume, a spin off this story, that story. His Popeye also lasted 12 or 13 issues, so I suspect this was planned for an ongoing. I don't know if it didn't sell well or there was a rights issue that happened real quickly in there, but definitely feels like it got canceled too soon. There are self contained stories, though, roughly single issue with like a little bit of crossover for people to enjoy it. >> Rob: Like, guess it's kind of like one of those shows where there's like a series arc but a, story of the week at the same time. >> Guido: Yeah. And there's lots of music. So they bring lots of music in, then they write original lyrics that are contextual to the show, to the story that's happening in the episode. So that's a really fun aspect. And I like Larid's. I like his humor with cartoons. He'll draw these panels. There must be a name for this, but I don't know what it is. And I feel like I should as a comic book person that where there's one panel and, people move throughout that one panel. You know what I'm saying? So, like, you did it when she's in the taxi ca. In that one issue. And like, so the taxi will show up in all these different places on one panel. Anyway. It's such a classic cartoon comic strippy thing. And I think that's what Landridge does really well. What did you think of these issues? How did you enjoy them or take out of them? >> Rob: Yeah, they're pretty, like, easy, breezy. I. I was almost expecting a bit more adult humor where. Because we've covered some of these comics that have taken like a kid character and made it more adult. Like the Snaggleuss comics that we read are definitely the, Mark Russell Flintstones. >> Guido: These are. These are not those. >> Rob: Yeah, those have a lot of social commentary and at times aren't even really supposed to be funny. Like they're supposed to be serious. But also some of them, like the Alvira ones, have a lot more like, tongue in cheek humor. This is definitely more geared towards kids with like jokes in there that I think adults can appreciate, but it doesn't. Like, I almost expected it to have like, double entendre and it doesn't. It's pretty straightforward for kids, but not like talking down. So I do think, like an adult reader can read it. And maybe that was part of the issue of why maybe it didn't go on. Like, is this for adults? Is this for kids? Like, maybe It's a little unclear there, but I still enjoyed it. >> Guido: Well, I think that's Lindridge's writing because that's how the Muppet Shows comics work well. And I think what I like about that in his writing is, almost like what we were saying about the musical. Now the musical has, I think, A lot more meta moments. The comic book only has really two that stood out to me. One, for example, where they say something like, we already established that on page nine. Like that sort of meta humor. There's not that much of it. But what I like that he does is it. He's keeping it sincere. Right. He's not doing the. The tongue in cheek thing. >> Rob: Yes. >> Guido: And I appreciate that. That's how he wrote the Muppets, too. But I do agree that it could have used a little more creativity in that way, whether it's through some meta storytelling or through some jokes or. Well, and also the musical, we found something. >> Rob: Yeah, we found the musical so funny and, so on. That the musical so funny. And then the original Fleer cartoons are so weird. Like, this could have maybe taken a little bit more of the weird of the cartoons and a little bit more of the. The musical wasn't written yet, but the musical. The humor of the musical. Yeah, was like. It could have gone in either direction, and it was a little bit more in the middle. But I also do. I think the art is really great throughout. I love. And it's all done in that black and white style, which also looks very cool. >> Guido: Yeah. Yeah, I agreed. So I sort of wish it went on to see how he went with it. Why do you think there's not more Betty comics? So zooming out a little bit. Like, why. Let's ignore any rights possibility. Why hasn't there been a comic since 2016? Why wasn't there more than one comic for almost 40 years? Like, what do you think the deal is with her in comics? >> Rob: Yeah. I might go back to kind of. Well, a couple of things. One, the original Fleischer cartoons. And I think you could say this of the Musical as well. It is. Yes, comics are a visual style, but there's so much moving visuals in the original cartoons. Like, everything is actually constantly moving. There's all this kind of kinetic energy. And maybe that doesn't translate in the same way through the comics. And I think the other thing would be, who is the audience? Like, is the audience for adults? Is the audience for, a younger kids? Kids don't even maybe necessarily know Betty. So is it for adults in that way? But I don't know. Maybe. What do you think? those are. That's what I'm thinking. >> Guido: But how does the musical skin that cat, as they say? >> Rob: Y. >> Guido: Somehow the Musical does. Now it doesn't. The musical deals with the movement, the energy issue you're talking about that Betty has, which could be A real issue for comics for her. But the musical does the. The working on both levels in that way. The musical was something we didn't say in the second segment that isnna be on anyone's mind who sees it is. It's very similar to Barbie, and it had to have been in production development parallel to Barbie, I would think, just based on how long Broadway takes to develop. But the. It has that way where it's speaking to the fans of the property and it's speaking to little kids and it's speaking to people who aren't fans. Like it's, it's somehow operating on all those levels. >> Rob: Well, what both, what both of them do, and it's probably very smart, is that they have a teenage girl character in there as well. >> Guido: Right. Who gets the comment on the character, comments on it. >> Rob: Who's, you know, in the case of Boop, she's a big fan. In the case of Barbie, she really doesn't like Barbie. Right. But she kind of comments, on it. So I think, like, you kind of address the kid element with that teenage character, and then the rest of it can focus more on the adults and both of them also bring in the political commentary. Maybe it's a little harder in Boop than, I mean harder, more significant in Barbie than it was in Boop. But you do have like, the politics in Boop the Musical, and you do have kind of all the things about masculinity. >> Guido: And so maybe the key is pulling her out of her world. That might be the key to a successful comic. It's the same thing. Actually. You mentioned Elvira, which is also from Dynamite, and there's a reason that every single, Avira series pulls her out of her world, because you can't just. You can't tell stories. I mean, Elvara is a little more complicated because she's hostess and like, you know, how does she exist on her own? But the fun part of her is putting her in all these different situations with different characters in different worlds. So I could see Boop working really well that way as a comic. Have Betty have Betty and Elvira. Have Betty Boop and Betty Page. Dynamite does a ton of Betty Pagee comics. Have Betty Boop and whoever. Have Betty Boop show up in the 2025. But in the comics, you know, like, you can do so much with her out of her element. >> Rob: I had mentioned on, a previous episode where we talked about Archie, that I actually worked on developing an Archie comics musical. And I think one of the big kind of sticking points we had the company I was working for was, like, keeping it in the world. Like, I don't know there, it's tricky there. Watching Boop the Musical, I was like, oh, yeah. I do think so much of it is, like, taking these characters out of this world. And even when you think of something like Riverdale, it's like, it's not really. It's not the Riverdale of the comics. It was almost taking them out of the worlds that we know. So, yeah, I think that's sense. >> Guido: I think that's the element. You know, for many reasons, I cringe every time, and especially with the recent Marvel phase, Anytime someone says they hate multiversal stories, which plenty of people say, including writers I really like and writers we've had on the show, but anytime people say it, I cringe because I'm like, what? When I think'do. One of the ways I think it works really well is in this way, take a character out of their element. And you learn so much more about that character by doing that, by putting them in an unfamiliar environment or a real world or whatever. And that's what I think our whole show is about. Like, what happens when you break these worlds into each other, crash these worlds into each other? Like, what do you get out of that? And so I think a Boop comic would do that. >> Rob: Yeah. And it's making me think. I would be curious to see some other characters from this era that have kind of gone by the wayside, like Lee Falk's Phantom or the Shadow, and maybe how could you take them into another world or modernize them and. >> Guido: Well, Phantoms in Defenders of the earth ###h which is coming out in comic right now. So they were. That was, Dan De Dio was doing that with all those pulp heroes from Defenders of the Earth. Like, what's, the magician guy's name and. Yeah, and the racist archetype guy's name and all those other guys. But Phantom's in there, too. >> Rob: Yeah. So, yeah, maybe m. But you're right. >> Guido: You're right. The Shadow and these other iconic pulp heroes, it would be fun to pull them out of their world and. And maybe even mash them up. I mean, y would. As we said, some of the fun of Boop the Musical was seeing her interface with cosplayers. But essentially, the characters and some of the comic strips in the 80s that I found online have her with some of the other cartoons. Some of the Popeye characters and stuff are, in there. And as you said, it was titled Betty Boop and Felix the Cat. So, yeah, keep. Keep putting her with other things. There's enough public domain stuff out there even that you don't even have to come up with shared licenses. >> Rob: Yeah, but I feel like I can totally see those original cartoons taking off, on, like, Tik Took or some people talking about them there, because I think that's gonna help, like, bring in so many of these characters, like, a lot of those characters we mentioned. It's just like they. They're not in the spotlight anymore. So I do think it just sometimes takes a little something and then suddenly they're propelled forward again. >> Guido: Yeah, agreed. All right, well, let's boop boop bo doop out of here. That is a wrap to Dear Watchers. Thank you for listening. I have been Grampy Guido and I. >> Rob: Have been Paajir Rab. >> Guido: I guess the readingash watching list is in the show notes. Follow us on all social media at Deer Watchers. Go see Poop the Musical on Broadway. >> Rob: Leave us a five star review wherever you listen. We'll be back soon with another trip through the multiverse. >> Guido: In the meantime, in the words guachu poop boop Paoo.