My father Kevin Part 2 | 14

Why do you believe that Kevan's responsible for Rochelle's murder.

My Dad's never raised his voice, raised a hand to me. I was never smacked. As a child, I experienced nothing but.

Displays of love.

But I know when I disappointed my dad and I saw evil sides of him. I saw how calculated and sinister he could be. I see the way he treated women. I knew he was capable of horrible things.

I knew that.

Crossing him could be dangerous for people. But I know how quickly he can turn on his most significant relationships, how you can go from being the center of his universe to nothing and no one easily. But I think my initial instinct when hearing that Rochelle had been murdered was that it was my father.

I'm Ashley Hanson and you're listening to episode fourteen of Dear Rochelle, a podcast by True Crime Australia. This is the untold story of Rochelle Charles, a twenty three year old who was brutally murdered. Her killer has never been caught. This is the second of a two part interview with Kevin Stephen Corell's daughter Jazz. As you heard last episode, Jazz has some pretty strong beliefs about her father, particularly in relation to historic allegations for which she was found

Yes?

So did at Campton Holden, being that I think I met her when I was about sixteen. I was seventeen when she passed, so my brother had not long had his license and he often borrowed cars from Campton Holden and so you know, if he was heading out there to visit out dad, I'd often go.

And I met Rochelle a few times.

And at that age, you know, a young woman that age, it's automatically someone you look up to, and you know she's very bubbly and friendly and yeah, just lovely, very very sweet.

Do you remember being told that she died.

I don't remember the specifics on how I found that out. I don't remember a conversation with my dad about it. My feeling is possibly that my brother told me, but I can't confirm that my brother at that time had a closer relationship with my dad. At sixteen seventeen, I you know, didn't really have a lot to do with him. The time she passed away and the time I fell pregnant with my eldest son, I had cut my dud from my life and told him I believed he did it.

I said, you know, being seventeen.

I don't remember the order in which I found things out, but I think there was possibly a conversation about, you know, the defrauding of Campton Holden. And I was well aware that if Rochelle had become aware that he was doing that, and you know, if someone told me my dad stole something, I would immediately believe that my dad is a thief. You know, most of time he passes it off as a joke. We couldn't go anywhere without him pocketing something or you know, and it was always a joke to him.

When did you start to think that the fraud allegations against your father could have been his motive?

I think it was. He did definitely didn't tell me, because I remember I remember bringing it up to him about Camden Holden. I think I'd read it in a paper and.

I asked him.

I said, well, you know, let's this about you defrodi and he said, oh, they I remember something about seven thousand dollars and he said, like, I'm going to kill a young girl over seven thousand dollars, and he denied that he had defrauded.

Hold it.

It's possibly that my brain's been attached to that for twenty four years, that the sexual element of it was something I had not considered, which is probably ridiculous to most considering his history. I didn't view it that way though, So Yeah, to me, it was about her exposing who he was. I think she possibly started questioning things because of her commissions. She made him paranoid. Probably didn't know how to get out of it. He felt like he

That being.

Becoming well known it would have angered him. I remember there was one podcast where one of my dad's former partners said that my dad spoke about Rochelle's performance dropping in the months before she died.

For him to speak.

About someone like that, my dad wouldn't care if someone wasn't working hard.

It's not something that would affect him. He wasn't a hard worker, you know, he never has been.

He's use of her had shifted, and he was probably trying to make Rachelle look a certain way so that if she did expose him, or it could be that she had laughed at him, changed his view entirely. But also he would have been trying to change people's perceptions of Rochelle to make her look like a liar if she came out and exposed him.

What about if she rejected him.

Probably the most dangerous thing that she could have done. I don't think my dad gets rejected very often. I think, you know, in most social settings where you know, maybe he'd make an advance. You know, he'd probably never see that woman again if she, you know, was that mingles or and that's fine, and he'd probably accept that and minimize how much he wanted her. But Rochelle being in his life every day, and how much he would have been infatuated with her, her rejecting him would have been

You've had a lot of years to consider your father's behavior, what you know of him, and also now insights into Rochelle's case. What do you you believe happened to Rochelle that night?

I believe that he lured her with the Walker shore. He convinced her they were going to pick it up. I don't know how he convinced her to drive her car. I think he met her at Bargo. That's the only part that's missing for me. Why they went in her car. My dad's known to always be the driver. I've never driven with my dad in the car. Don't know how that happened. I think he then they went to Giroua. I think he wanted to kill her, possibly as punishment for rejecting him, but I think it was about the

First thing.

When I heard about the radio, which was only in the last few weeks, my first thought was he took it out because technology. There was also comments about, you know, the three different places he had to shoe, handbags, and the sheet. I think he would have been insulted with the way that was presented as him being fearful and anxious and disorganized. I think he did that intentionally and

He's got away with things. I think that's how he views it.

Your father must be afforded the presumption of innocence. But why do you believe he's gotten away with Rochelle's murder.

I honestly couldn't tell you.

I think my dad's probably the luckiest man I've ever known, and I've always seen luck on his side.

I remember my mom.

My mom was definitely never someone who, you know, even though she had valid reason to say a lot of things about my father, she wasn't one of those mothers whoever bad mouthed us. She'd stopped my grandparents from ever saying anything bad as well. But she used to always say, your father will always lean on his feet. I heard that a billion times through my life, and he does. If we did a ruffle somewhere, my dad would win.

He has a very very low.

Range of emotions. There's anger, which he suppresses, but I can see it in his eyes. I know when my dad's angry, but he doesn't show it. And there's happy fun that version of my dad, and that's most of the time. Yeah, but there's not a wide range, and he just he's used that to win people over and have people defend him. There were quite a few years that I know I protected him where people would have their doubts and I would convince them that, you know,

I know that.

You know I was willing to let something like murder slide for the support he offered, But there was a lot of trauma in my life. I was not well, and I didn't know how to deal with all of this.

Do you remember realizing he was being investigated over Rochelle's matter.

I remember my mum's parents had told me they rang the police to tell them about my dad's real name, with his former history, and I remember the police coming out to interview me. I don't remember a lot of questions. I just remember them asking about a sheet more than anything. I can't remember exactly what I said to them at the time, but they were asking me if I had been to his place at Lake Laura, and yeah, I'd bet there maybe once or twice. So I couldn't give them a lot of information, but.

I just knew.

I don't know, I always had that feeling, but I think the minute I knew was when the inquest was happening and it was printed about Rochelle's fingers, and my dad was coming over daily at that time, and he was falling apart about what they were printing about him, and at that time. It was horrible. You know, I lost a lot of friends through that time with no

But the second he.

Told me that that was a lie and he never said those things, that's when I realized he's done this. That was the moment. And I remember.

Talking to my oldest son when there was a lot of stuff in.

The media, and I mean, my baby boy was maybe twelve, and he wanted to know about the case. He knew that his grandfather had been in the media and stuff. It was way too young to have those conversations, but I was worried about what would be said in the school yard, and you know, his friend's parents having conversations with friends and stuff.

So I had to tell me about the case, and.

I still urged it to my lips the minute I told him about the fingers and the pain in my son's face realizing who his grandfather was. I've never ever forgotten that conversation. I don't remember how we sat down and talked. I know I would have been gentle, and but the second I said about the fingers his face.

Never forget it.

And for you, it was this conversation sitting on the couch when he said I never said that.

I never said that. What was that like for you? In that moment? Take me into that room.

I just wanted to pass out. I just I still remember just feeling electrified.

Were you fearful?

At that time?

I didn't think my dad would hurt me. There have been many periods through my life there I did believe my dad would hurt me if he could get away with it. But at that time, I think he was very dependent on people thinking he's innocent, and he viewed me as someone who believed he was innocent. But I was scared of what he was capable of. I was definitely scared to say you're lying. I would never have said that because that would have put me in danger.

It must have taken a lot of guts for you to accuse your father of Rochelle's murder.

Through I mean, there's probably been four or five big blow ups between me and my dad where we get to that level of cruelty. First time was when I was twelve, and then that second time after Rochelle died, and it's yeah, built up. It's all the times where I played along and got resentful of let it go, that he was flood out lying, and it builds up and builds up to a point where I just snap.

How soon after Rochelle's murder did your father tell you that Rochelle's fingers had been cut off?

I don't remember the specific conversation. I just I remember telling people, you know, because that's what my dad had told me, the bikers had done it. And I remember just feeling like the blood had drained from my face the time he sat on my lounge and said, I've never said that. He said it to me multiple times. I don't remember him talking about Rochelle's death in any other sense than him defending himself. There was no conversations about missing Rochelle or how wonderful she was, or there

What did he say when you said, I believe you did it?

My dad will.

Match my cruelty. When I'm a pretty passive person, as I said, I'm very compliant with my dad's lies and things like that, and then I let it all build up until I erupt and I get very cruel and I have said some really cruel things to my dad. My dad matches that, and he says crueler things back. And I mean, there's been times throughout my life that I've had doubts and thought, what if he didn't do it?

But I do believe he did it. I think he knows he did it.

Did he ever have any compassion or grief about what happened to Rochelle?

Not that I ever saw.

I don't think I've ever seen compassion in my father, except when my daughter died. I know that broke him. I think I was the single most painful thing of his life.

Cruelty was always.

In a very, very different way than most people experience cruelty. He managed to get people in on it with him always, and I think that's so unique and it adds an extra layer of evilness. I think he fully thought that his charm would make people not suspect him, and he could point it towards bikers because in his eyes, he would have lost any adoration he had for Rochelle because she was hanging out with bikers. He has a very

Do you believe that your father cut off Rochelle's fingers.

Yes, I do.

I think that was his attempt for getting away with it. As I've said, he's very calculated. He thinks he's forensically super intelligent. And I think he intentionally cut off her fingers and make up the rumor that Rochelle was stealing drugs for bikers, because that's something he could completely dismiss her character. He would you minimize her character, whether Rochelle was doing that or not. And I don't believe for a second she was. That's not something I would say, well,

Is that because you believe you've felt that, and you've experienced feeling of nothing.

He would act like I hung the moon and I was everything, and then I was nothing and I was so insignificant, And he never cared, and he didn't care what happened to.

Me, what would be happening to him inside In those moments when he has rage for someone, you'd.

See flickers in his face, especially his eyes. A lot of his victims have talked about his eyes. They're definitely really significant. I could see it, but I don't think anyone who didn't know you well would be able to see it. My dad's not reactive at all. He's not anxious, he's not full of well, he's probably is full of rage, but not in the sense that most people would have.

Very calculated.

He is very He can mask so much of what he's feeling and put a smile on his face and stew on it and come up with the plan and execute his revenge or his plan later on without any one. You know, it's very hard to say how you get victimized by my father because there's a lot of gas lighting there, and most people be like, what are you talking about? You so crazy? You're paranoid? You know, he's wonderful,

It was cruel.

It was always a cruelty, and he got off on making people laugh at people.

He didn't like, what would you say to people or even if your father said, you just she's lying.

She has a grudge against me.

I think he said that to multiple people over the years. He has told I know he's spoken to one of my sons, who only very recently told me that this conversation had happened. But yeah, apparently my dad had said to him, you know, I know your mom thinks I killed Rochelle, and they had a conversation about it, and you know, he said that you know it was bikers that were responsible. And he said, you your mum believes this because of a rape case back in the eighties.

Why is that you carry that shame and guilt about loving your father?

I think.

The way my dad is with me.

Made people believe that he's not capable of bad things. You know, I know with myself, when you meet a man who's a wonderful father, you believe in his inherit goodness.

And I do believe to a degree.

I was a tool he used to convince people of that, and I played along. If there was an audience, my dad would really amp it up. He was very much the showman. If we're at a party, he would spin me around and dance with me and Britain. I was the center of everything, and I saw women fall over themselves with that act. He never told me how to do it, but eat into it because his love.

Felt special.

But when it wasn't an audience witnessing that that didn't exist. I realized very early that I was at all. It was something he used to convince people of his goodness, but I didn't.

Want it to stop.

Yeah, there was.

Very different versions of him. If he'd gone to jail, maybe I would never know him. Maybe he'd just be a story to me. Maybe I wouldn't have developed any love for him. It's a sacrifice I would have made, though, to not have my father in my life. If he had gone to jail back in those times and it was potential for him to change, he could not do what he'd done.

Do you hope for a day that this will stop following you?

Yeah?

Yeah, I mean he feels selfish to ever put any focus on that. I want this to stop following us, not at the expense of Christian and receiving justice. I will enjoy this for the rest of my life if it means they get justice and they get the answers that they deserve. I don't want him found guilty and put in jail. I want him to admit what he did. I mean, I'll take it anyway it happens, but I think they deserve that from him. I don't know if

One day.

I wanted something I could take to them. I remember, you know, multiple times he's been unwell, and you know, I don't know how true it is and stuff, but I wonder if you'll say anything. I don't think he will. I think he's too selfish for that. But I know that the day i find out my father has passed, the first thing I'm going to do before I shared a single tear with better tell Christian and anyone else that I know that's been victimized by him and give them peace they deserve.

What do you want Christian and to know?

But I'm sorry, and I'm.

Sorry that.

I participated in twenty four years of him having quid fit and happy days.

Jas.

You were a child when this happened and has nothing to do with you. This is heartbreaking to listen to you talk like this, that you hold so much guilt either somebody else's actions.

I don't know what experience. I don't I can't even comprehend it. But I've lost a child.

And it's.

It's the most excruciating pain in the world that it never leaves. But to add on to that, someone who has walk three for twenty four years having good memories, and I've participated in that I've told my dad I don't believe in karma, but I remember feeling like I lost my daughter as karma for sending by him.

I did.

Who felt like the fact that I had a knowledge deep inside me that he did this and I still only met my life. I don't even believe in the concept of it, but I feel like I need to be punished for that. I feel like.

I was complicit in and what he's done and the people he's hurt.

I wish he'd been got twenty four years ago and here was nothing but a story my children knew today.

It's I don't want the attention of this.

I don't want to be going through any of this, but it needs to happen, and if justice is never served, I think it's important that his face is known, his name, he is known, He still has, you know, his innocence and stuff. But I think it's significant that I'm his daughter and I don't believe in his innocence. And I could certainly get any attention by saying he's innocent and being loud and proud about that and.

Giving interviews and supporting him.

That's not what this is about.

I hate even the insinuation of that.

That would be a lot easier to do, but you take it in a harder step. Yes, to speak out about someone who you love yep, deep down yep.

And it hurts. It hurts a lot to openly declare this. I'm sick constantly. This has been a lot. My kids have seen me in a hor refixed date over recent weeks.

But it's it needs to happen. Thank you, thank you.

It's a lot, but it feels good to get it out.

Coming soon on de Rochelle.

I've been working with Telstra, with Optus, with Vodaphone. I have a good understanding of how the networks operate.

Two twenty am.

It's the same time, and it just feels like the loneliest place in the world, doesn't it.

The killer knows this area well. That person has taken so much from us.

Do you believe the modern technology that you have access to.

Could help to solve Rochelle's case. I think you can drive us forwards.

It breaks my heart yet again to have your life shared with such a massive worldwide audience. Are you saying that Rochelle's case may not have been solved because of misogyny?

Y's been simple terms of my league.

Our conclusion is that that alibi that he could have been in campbelltonon it's.

Just impossible, just could not happen.

It's rare that I'll say it's just impossible, but it's just impossible.

Dear Rochelle is a multi media production from True Crime Australia. If you want to be one of the first to find out what happens next, go to Deroshelle dot com dot au. That's where eligible Digital News Corp Australia subscribers get early access to podcast episodes and breaking news in our live investigation and you will also find exclusive videos, interactive evidence, feature articles and more.

That's Deroshelle dot com dot au.

If you have any tips or confidential information to share with me, Ashley Hanson, please send an email to de Roshelle at News dot com dot au. Our supervising producer and audio editor is Rhics Gunter Rachel Fountain, His executive producer and audio director. Our executive editor is Sarah Blake. Our senior journalist is Patrick Carline. Video editors are Gillian McNally, Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture editors are Jeff dar