So the person who she went to meet we feel either killed her or had something to do with her death.
It would have had to be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars for this to be really exposed. No, I don't believe there's two people involved, and it's hard to hide this forever twenty odd years now.
Welcome to the fourth update episode of Dear Rochelle. You're behind the scenes access to this live podcast investigation series.
I'm your host, Ashley Hanson.
This bonus episode is your chance to ask the questions. Over the past week, We've been flooded with messages from followers, so let's not waste any time. I'm joined by retired New South Wales detective and cold case expert Damien Luhn, who's been volunteering his time since the beginning of last year to reinvestigate Rochelle's case with me. He joins me along with Rochelle's sister Christy to respond to your questions.
Let's begin, Tanyell says, one thing I thought about today was Christie's comments on Rochelle's car when it was found. She mentioned about the steering wheel lock. Had they taken into consideration why it was placed the way.
It was, Yeah, they did. That was a big part of my evidence. I knew that she didn't put there, and I think that whoever put it there either killed her or had something to do with her death. And I don't think they realized that she had a specific way that she put it on, because it was not put on the way that Rachelle puts it on. So that's how I knew that she didn't park it there.
So that was brought up in coroner's court, and the police do know about that, and yeah, I think that they agreed that she wasn't the one that parked it there.
So this leads me into the next question is why are we so confident that Rochelle knew her killer.
She was the type of girl that didn't take any risk. She was a bit carefree, but she wasn't silly, and she was going to meet somebody there at the Bargo Pub. Now, had it raised any concerns with her, she would have told somebody. And I'm just believe that she would have known her killer.
So the person who she went to meet we feel either killed her or had something to do with her death, or knows what happened to her. Because yes, she didn't actually meet up with anybody that she knew after work, and we didn't have anyone come forward saying that Rochelle never arrived.
Well with the steering will lock.
I believe that that shows that whoever went to the attempts of putting the steering will lock back on probably knew that she would do that, so they were trying to imitate her behavior and they didn't get it quite right.
Would that play into it as well.
I'll certainly be, because it would have been well known in her business and her amongst her friends that she always secured a car with a club lockdown. If that was not on in the car when it was recovered, it would have been a dead giveaway very quickly that someone else had been in that motor vehicle. But unfortunately the for the killer has put that club lock on, has put it on the wrong way.
Do you think whoever was responsible knew that Rachelle would be home alone that evening?
Potentially she like you know, her life was no secret. She talked constantly. She could talk underwater with a mouthful of marbles, and she talked to anybody and nothing was you know, she was a naive in the fact that she would she trusted people that she knew, She wouldn't have thought anything of telling someone that she was home alone.
Julian has sent in a question. Was the car ever forensically tested?
Yes it was. It was to a secure holding ard after Rapel's body had been located, and then two days later the commodore was founded in the recar park of the Barga Hotel and that was toad and to a secure holding art where it was forensicanly examined.
From your understanding, was the face plate to Rachelle's stereo ever found?
I believe it was in her handbag when that was located a number of days afterwards. And look, this tells us is a very important issue that Rachelle had intended to leave that vehicle there. So it was always her routine that went, she to park a car and she would take the face place out, so you know the stereo couldn't be stolen. Basically, he led to that face plate and she would then secure a car with a
club lock. So it tells me that she was expected to be away from that vehicle for some considerable time until she returned home.
Is it also then fair to surmise that she wasn't intercepted at her home because she had her handbag with her and as we believe that the face plate of the stereo was in her handbag as well, so she had possibly parked her car somewhere.
Yes, well, we know that when they went to Rachelle's place later that all the lights were on and as
if someone had just walked out. I probably think she was running a bit late, to be honest with you, and leaving the lights on was no big deal because it would have been dark well that time in the afternoon, and we know that she was She couldn't have been intercepted there because the car was found at the car park behind the pub with a face plate of the cassette missing and also the club lock on the car, so it wouldn't have been the case if that had been earlier.
This is a question for me, what do you make of the stereo still being missing to this day?
Well, I would you know. I could only think that what the offender has done discarding her item along the way after her body was after she was murdered, that just has not just been located. I would strongly suggest that it's been discarded because you're carrying around something, it's evidentary value that to say that that was rachelle stereo and why if you've got possession of it. So I'd imagine that we haven't found all the items that were
in her car. Certainly her handbag and shoes were later recovered at various locations, but I would imagine that stereo would have been discarded.
This is an anonymous question. Was the DNA testing as good as it is now? And can they run the DNA again from the sheet?
DNA is an evolving technology day by day, and I know from a previous homicide investigation that I had flagged an item to be re examined for instantly by the Department of Analytical Laboratories, and in two thousand and nine I took that item over to Dallas, Texas for a further examination of what they call mitochondrial DNA. DNA has improved leaps and bounds since two thousand and one, and it may be worth another chance or another try to re examine those exhibits.
Yet again, Chris says, did any patrons of the Bargo Hotel ever see Rochelle that night at the pub? Are there any eyewitnesses of her in the establishment, having a drink or meal, etc.
Well, I can answer that one.
The Bargo Hotel wasn't canvassed until very late, so people's recollections may not have been entirely clear by the time they were questioned, some of them weeks later. We know that there's no one that can definitively say that Rochelle was in the Bargo Hotel that night. Did you want to add anything on that, Damien.
It's a Thursday evening. I believe it was a topless night with bar maids there, etc. Unless there was CCT footage there inside the hotel, which we believe there wasn't any. It's difficult to say what people saw because you know, you give a general description of a female of a person, and a lot of people will say, oh, yes, I think I saw someone sitting in the corner like that, but it may not be the person at all. So they did. Unfortunately it was a couple of weeks later
that they came as the hotel. That should have been done very soon after Rochelle's body was found.
Could you imagine Rachelle would have gone to the Bargo pub if she knew it was Topless Waitress Night as well, and had gone to that particular venue.
I don't think she would have known it was Topless Waitress Night because we didn't have anything to do with the Bargo Hotel. So I don't believe she ever went in there. I don't believe that she ever wanted to go there if she was meeting someone that she knew, which we think is the case, There's no isn't to meet them at the Bargo Hotel because she knew them and she didn't go there. That wasn't a place where we would go. We'd never been there.
Okay, Shannon says, does Damien think a second person he's involved in Rochelle's murder and is there any evidence to suggest this?
No, I don't believe there's two people involved. And the reason why I say this because at the crime scene, a cement leaders tried to be priced off the tank where Rochelle's body was found lying by her side because that was heavy and that was prized open. So how two people have been there? It would have been easier to open that tank and to hide her body, but
that wasn't the case. And we also have to go back to the witness reports on at GIRoA where they say that they saw a male standing over top of a body that appeared to be on the ground at the rear of the car.
And just further to that, there was only ever sightings of one person in a car after that. Remember the couple that were coming back from Woollongong after dinner and they saw someone slouched behind the steering wheel in and around the spot where Rochelle's body was found in a car. So that also suggests that maybe there was only one person there at that time, But in fact we haven't We don't know of another person being sighted there.
We can't rule it out though now you.
Can't rule it out. But I take it back on that and having been to the site and I know that road well myself. At night, it's very very dark there and no street lighting, so you'd rely on your high beam of your motor vehicle traveling that stretch the road because of wildlife in the area. And he was a person was seen slumped down trying to hide or secrete himself lower in the seat by a couple driving past.
So I still firmly believe that there's one offender involved here, And for the obvious other obvious reasons where the other witnesses have said this. Had there been two offenders, surely one would have been the other one would have been cited. But you leave yourself open to a very dangerous predicament here because two people are involved. People talk, and so far none of this has happened, and it's hard to hide this forever twenty odd years.
Now, Damien, this one's for you as well from Stuart. How can vital evidence get lost in a murder case? What can be done to recover it? Is this common look?
Unfortunately it does happen. Not all systems are perfect. However, I always threated it exhibits as a matter of priority. Once they come into your possession, there is a change. There is a chain of possession of them, and that they are recall ordered, that they are then secured into an exhibit room and they're booked up. And the old days it used to be booked up manually, but nowadays it's on an electronic record on the computer system. And
it is highly frustrating when an exhibit goes missing. Now sometimes it's the case of things go wrong in the exhibit room, and often with a large amount of drugs that they have to be disposed very quickly after being analyzed. And yet exhibits are the most important aspect of this case because it's something, it's tangible evidence, it's real, it's physical,
and it's something you can show during any trial. And over the years you have to be meticulous in relation to your record keeping of your exhibits and that should be occurring and should occur continuously occurring.
Now I should probably point out that New South Wales police have greatly improved their systems around holding on to exhibits and storing them.
Is that fair to say, Jamien?
Oh, Look, the processes have changed over the years, and I believe now that the police force has a great system now of the exhibits and how they're secured and how they're stored, and yet how important they are the cases as well, particularly the unsolved, So they are categorized and they are secured away, often in an unnamed location just for the security of the brief. But I do know that our exhibit processes have dramatically improved since today. I joined the cops back in the early eighties.
That's good to know.
Amanda says, has this scenario that they kill a leured Rochelle to the South Coast in her car to.
See his walking shore.
During said journey, he sexually assaulted her and it escalated to murdering her.
Ever being considered, I believe this has been considered, and we believe it's a sexually motivated attack and the lure to get her down to see this post walking Shaw may have been a key factor in this because she was so excited that she was going to have the access to one for that weekend and it had been promised to her by her former boss, Kevin. Now you
could say this may have been a lure. I'm not sure how the investigators were thinking about that, but it just stands out to me that she was promised to be given something very extreamy valuable and something that she's a holden that and why wouldn't she be excited? So was that a lure for her to unfortunately meet her demise? And as I said, I believe it's a sexually motivated attack.
Leanne said.
Are the police looking into whether the key suspect actually did have a commodore vehicle altered to look like a walking Shaw in the garage of his Gorilla apartment, which may have been used as bait.
Well, we know that the word walking shaw was used. Now I know that during in the brief, the police have tracked every owner of those walking Shawls and interviewed them, and they provided a strong alibi. Now, you could get a body kit, yes, and make it look like a walking show, but you'd imagine how many commodores are out there that the police would have had to interview the owners who have modified their motor vehicles. I just believe that they slightly concentrated on a walking show.
I did put this question to police not long ago, and we didn't get a specific answer back. So make of that what you will. It doesn't mean that they're not investigating it. They very well may be, but it's certainly not something that they're giving us information about. Next question is from Craig. Do you think Rochelle could have stumbled across fraudulent activity at Camden Holden and this could have been linked to her murder?
Look, this is another good motivation. It may have been, It may have been something was dodgy, Something was dodgy. Not sure. I know that later on Kevin was released from Camden Oldhen over some issues, but look, it would have had to be in hundreds of thousands of dollars for this to be really exposed. I don't believe the amount was I think the mount was minute. I think it was under six thousand dollars. Whatever, some issues with some money. As I said before, it was a sexually motivated murder.
It's important to mention Kevin Stephen Carrell strenuously denies any involvement in Michelle's murder and has never been charged. He has willingly participated in three records of interview with police and provided his DNA to the investigation. A coroner presiding over Rochelle's inquest made an open finding. Susie says, is there any chance of a retrial for any of Kevin Stephen Carell's alleged sexual assaults in the nineteen eighties.
I don't believe. So they've been formally acquitted by a jury. The end of the matter. You can't be you can't go to trial twice on this because you've already been found not guilty by a jury. And look, he has his right of your charge. You're innocent until proven guilty. And on these four separate matters before the district court, he was found not guilty so therefore the judicial system cannot place me for the courts again on these matters that he has been discharged of.
And also acknowledged that back in the nineteen eighties it was very difficult to get a conviction for a sexual assault.
Would you say that that's a fair comment.
Damien, Absolutely, And look at the tides of tune they were the last forty odd years in relation to how we treat victims of sexual assault. You know, the old days, they were canon follows. They'll vigorously cross examined, often by some heavy defense barristers and legal aid and made to feel shame full of what happened to them and as
if they were they're the ones to blame. But nowadays the way that the courts and the opposite of the Director of Public Prosecutions and the new Southwest Police and in fact I can say for this for all territories and state police forces in Australia and victims are now well treated in the sort of very very embarrassing situations.
An anonymous person has asked, is there any evidence that links the seven Mile Beach Jiroa area to any of the suspects in Rochelle's case?
Not at this stage. The only thing I can say is that that road was well known by the prime suspect in this matter, because he traveled it each day from the Illawarra to Nara for work.
Okay, what happened to Rochelle's dog ROLFI after she passed?
After I think it was the Sunday that we found out that she been murdered. I think I took Ralfie or Mum and Dad might have in the car back to Mum and dads and I he just cried and cried and cried. It was horrific, just horrific, because he was her baby, this giant bulldog. She would sometimes have him in bed with her. It was disgusting, but they
just adored each other. I remember her sitting in the recliner and Ralphie would be lying up her side with his head on her shoulder, and he used to drool and he snored, and he was It was beautiful, beautiful, big dumb thing. But yeah, no, we kept him at Mum and Dad's with their dogs, and he lived until.
I think he was eleven. He lived a long time.
Yeah, No, Mum and Dad cared for him and they had Rochelle's cap Momo as well, so yeah, at them for a very very long time.
We'll answer more of your questions soon. New episodes of De Rochelle drop on Fridays. Visit deroshelle dot com doau for more, and if you have any information you want to share with me, Ashley Hanson, you can do so confidentially. Please send an email to de Rochelle at news dot com. Doa you or you can follow the Deershelle podcast official discussion group on Facebook