intro: Hello there and welcome to the Dear Dyslexic podcast series brought to you by intro: Rethink Dyslexia, the podcast where we're breaking barriers and doing things differently. intro: I'm Shea Wissell, your host, and I'm so glad you can join us.
intro: I'm a fellow neurodivergent and I'm coming from the lands of the Rwundjeri people of the Kulin Nation, intro: where I live and work, and I would like to acknowledge and pay my respects to intro: all the tribes across our beautiful country and to all First Nations people listening today. intro: Our podcast was born in 2017 out of a need to give a voice to the stories and intro: perspectives of adults with dyslexia. intro: And our voice has grown stronger year after year.
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intro: We're excited to be bringing you this episode and invite you to like and follow intro: us or even better, why not leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform. intro: So let's get started. episode: Hi everyone and welcome to our latest episode of the Dear Dyslexic Podcast show. episode: I'm your host, Shea Wissell. episode: And today we're going to be taking a bit of a different approach where I'm going episode: to be talking about my research.
episode: And so throughout this year, we're going to shake it up a little bit with having episode: me doing some podcasts on my own and then bringing guests on. episode: But I recently had published my research titled, I Hate Calling It a Disability, episode: Looking at Dyslexia Through an Intersectional Lens. episode: And this research follows the work I've done through my doctorate.
episode: And so I wanted to share it with you today because it's a really lengthy paper episode: and I wouldn't be very dyslexic friendly if I just shared the paper and I didn't episode: give some type of summary around the research as well. episode: Previously, we've done some infographics, but today I thought I'd use the opportunity episode: to use the podcast to talk about the research and this paper.
episode: And really, it's a powerful look into how labels can impact our self-perception episode: and the inclusion of dyslexics within society. episode: It was co-authored by Dr Judith Hudson, one of my mentors who works closely episode: with me, Dr Rebecca Flower from La Trobe University, and then one of my peers, episode: Bill Goh, who is a dyslexic PhD student.
episode: And what we wanted to do was bring a fourth person in that could look at it episode: from a lived experience perspective and review it from a dyslexic perspective episode: so we didn't just have researchers writing this paper. episode: So let's take a bit of a deep dive into what this paper actually means for our episode: dyslexic community and society as a whole.
episode: Firstly, let's understand the background. So for those of you who are listening episode: that may not know about dyslexia or what it is, it affects one in 10 of us. episode: In the US, they say it affects one in five, so really quite high prevalence rates. episode: And it makes up the largest, at the moment, the largest neurodivergent group. episode: So if we're thinking about other neurodivergent groups like autism or ADHD.
episode: Those with autism make up about one to two percent of the population at the moment. episode: Those with ADHD make up around five to eight percent and then dyslexics are episode: making up one in ten or one in five. episode: Prevalence rates are changing all the time. We're seeing lots of adults being episode: diagnosed at the moment with autism, ADHD and also dyslexia. episode: So at the moment we're the leading neurodivergent difference but this may change over time.
episode: Yet for many dyslexia still remains really misunderstood and often overshadowed episode: by misconceptions and other neurodevelopmental differences and still a lot of episode: stigma attached to being dyslexic.
episode: So this research took a qualitative approach where we interviewed adults with episode: dyslexia and employers separately, so not their employers but other employers, episode: to understand how labels like disability, episode: neurodivergence, superpower influenced those with dyslexia's lives. episode: So one of the key take-homes is that labels really do matter.
episode: Participants overwhelmingly felt and rejected the term disability and not because episode: they don't face significant challenges or different challenges but because the episode: term often carries stigma and discrimination. episode: For some the label felt limiting, forcing them into a box that didn't align episode: with their complex realities and also didn't really talk about their strengths.
episode: One participant said that I hate episode: calling it a disability it's society's barriers, not me, that disable me. episode: And this perspective really aligns with the social model of disability, episode: which argues that it's not an individual's traits that disable them, episode: it's society's lack of accommodations and supports.
episode: Think about it, if workplaces, schools and communities embrace diverse ways episode: of thinking and learning, dyslexia might not be perceived as a limitation at all. episode: But what about the other side of the spectrum.
episode: The idea that dyslexia is a superpower. This label is gaining significant traction episode: at the moment and we've seen recent campaigns by Made by Dyslexia who are emphasizing episode: the strengths like lateral thinking and problem solving that those with dyslexia can have. episode: And we're seeing this big movement particularly on social media at the moment episode: around these terms of superpower.
episode: Yet this research highlighted that most dyslexic adults did not resonate with episode: the term superpower either. episode: They acknowledged that they had strengths like resilience, creativity and empathy. episode: But many saw these as coping mechanisms developed over time to navigate a world episode: that isn't dyslexia friendly.
episode: So not innate superpowers that we're born with, but skills that we develop because episode: we're constantly having to use them to navigate our way around the world. episode: One participant shared, I built strengths out of necessity, not because of magical abilities. episode: These perspectives remind us to celebrate strengths, but without romanticising episode: or ignoring the very real challenges that dyslexic individuals face.
episode: And we found that these types of labels may marginalise those with dyslexia episode: who are really struggling day to day with their difficulties, episode: who don't have functional reading skills, who can't fill out forms, episode: who can't get a job or are being underemployed because of their dyslexia when episode: really they've got a high amount of skills.
episode: That they could be using. And so this is part of society's need to start changing episode: the way we look and think about dyslexia. episode: Also out of the research, we looked at the intersectional lens and that's looking episode: at how power can play in an individual's life and the impact that we may have episode: on what a power structure might look like. episode: And so we looked at this through the power of labels placed on individuals with dyslexia.
episode: So for those that see dyslexia as a superpower, they seem to be the ones in episode: high profile careers or high profile jobs. They're at the top of their career ladder. episode: And so it doesn't affect them if they disclose they're dyslexic anymore. episode: It doesn't impact their financial ability. It doesn't impact their job role episode: or their career opportunities. episode: And so they're the ones sitting up at the higher point of that hierarchy.
episode: And then if we think of the medical model where we're diagnosed with a disability episode: or difficulty, and that's through specialists or health practitioners. episode: Again, so there's that power dynamic of a medical model where a practitioner episode: is telling you you've got this disability now based on the DSM-5, episode: which is a diagnostic mental health psychiatry disorders. I've got that wrong. episode: We'll put it up so you can read it.
episode: But the DSM-5 is what diagnoses us as having dyslexia or a specific learning episode: disability or difficulty in the first place. episode: And then if we think about that from a power structure, again, episode: you know, when we're in school, the teacher has all the power, the student doesn't. episode: And then when we're in the workplace, the employer has the power to place these episode: labels on us rather than us being able to own and really identify with these labels.
episode: So we're looking at the different power structures involved. episode: And that's something that hasn't really been looked at before and was a really episode: interesting part of the research that we undertook as well when writing this paper.
episode: I think also the fact that when we interviewed employers, they really saw dyslexia again, episode: if you're thinking about power as a real strength in the workplace, episode: that they could see how dyslexic employers could be real value or an asset to episode: an organisation because of the different ways of thinking and doing things and episode: the way they can contribute. episode: But these employers had exposure to dyslexia through their children or a family member already.
episode: So they could already understand the difficulties those employees were facing episode: and they already knew the kinds of compensatory strategies and supports that episode: they could in to really enable their dyslexic employees to thrive and shine in the workplace. ad: At Rethink Dyslexia, we are doing things differently.
ad: As a global leader in creating inclusive environments for adults with dyslexia, ad: our commitment is to provide individuals with opportunities to live healthier, ad: happier and more connected lives. ad: Through our range of tailored services, including coaching, learning and development ad: programs, consultancy and training, we're helping dyslexic individuals, ad: businesses and organisations to better understand and support their dyslexic employees.
ad: So if you're looking for insights, inspiration and expert advice on dyslexia ad: and how you can provide inclusive practices and environments, ad: then head to rethinkdyslexia.com to find out more or book your free consultation today. episode: So the third label we wanted to look at was really this neurodivergence label episode: that's come about in the last couple of years, particularly on social media.
episode: Neurodiversity has been around for a long time. It was coined by Judy Singer, episode: looking at the strengths that autistic people in her family had and coming from episode: a strength-based model rather than a deficit model. And that to neurodiversity. episode: We need diversity in everything we do from biodiversity to the workplace, episode: to education, to society. episode: If we don't have diversity, then we can't grow and learn and thrive.
episode: And that's what we see in the environment. If you look at biodiversity, episode: we take some mixture of plants and animals and the environment to enable things episode: to thrive. And that's what we need as a community as well. So really strength-based.
episode: And then over the last five years, we've seen this neurodivergent movement comes episode: through in this label where we say everyone in the world is diverse, episode: we're all neurodiverse, but then those that are neurodivergent or have dyslexia episode: or autism or AD, we diverge off the diverse. episode: And that means that we have a different way of thinking to the general population.
episode: And again, looking at those strengths around the different ways of thinking and doing things.
episode: And so what we've seen is this huge push, particularly episode: through the autistic community and now the ADHD community to episode: really take hold of this neurodivergent label episode: but we're also seeing it watered down because multiple conditions episode: and differences are now being placed under this label we've got episode: bipolar we've got mental health conditions and differences we've episode: got neurodevelopmental differences and so
episode: what we're seeing is then if everyone's put episode: under this big umbrella then our difficulties are episode: not supported properly because we're saying okay that group episode: of people in our workplace are neurodivergent so they just need episode: a quiet space low lighting you know and episode: we put these particular labels then episode: on what they may need when dyslexics really need a different
episode: type of supports to those that are autistic or those that are adhd but we also episode: know that these conditions overlap significantly and so if you're dyslexic there's episode: a high chance that you might have adhd or you might have autism and so some episode: of these strategies will work for the broader group but there's also specific episode: strategies that are needed to ensure that dyslexics are thriving in the workplace.
episode: And so we don't want to get lost. What our research found was the dyslexic community episode: wasn't really embracing the neurodiversity or neurodivergence label either. episode: They weren't feeling part of that community. And that at the moment, episode: it feels like we don't really have a broader community to be part of. episode: And that the neurodivergent conversation has really been centered around autism episode: and ADHD when it's so much broader than that.
episode: And we need to start thinking in the workplace more broadly than those two conditions. episode: So where do we go from here? The research really makes a compelling case for episode: rethinking the different labels altogether and what we're seeing through social episode: media and what we're seeing in the news and globally around these different labels.
episode: For those with dyslexia, identity first language like saying I am dyslexic rather episode: than I have dyslexia was empowering but they use both terms interchangeably episode: and so sometimes when I go to speak people say it's not dyslexia it's a specific episode: learning difficulty or a specific learning difference. episode: And yes, that's the label used in the DSM-5, but what are adults and what are episode: individuals wanting to use for themselves?
episode: And at the moment, dyslexic and dyslexia seem to be the most common. episode: Most comfortable terms for them to be using at the moment. So we can't take that away from them. episode: That is their preference. So whether you're an education employer, episode: a parent, you have to let that individual choose what label is most suitable episode: and most comfortable for them in their skin.
episode: So the choice of language may seem small but it has a ripple effect and employers episode: and educators can adopt these terms to foster environments where dyslexic individuals episode: feel valued and understood and this isn't just good for dyslexics, it's good for everyone. episode: When we challenge ableist language like we've talked about and what we saw in the research. episode: So dumb, stupid, try harder, not find detailed enough.
episode: We had one participant ask what it was like to have an intellectual disability episode: and some really negative labels that were placed on our participants from a young age.
episode: And those labels were sticky and they stuck to them. And as they progressed into adulthood, episode: they still had those labels, feelings attached to them so we could see the impact episode: that this had on self-esteem and self-confidence and people's ability to then episode: be able to self-advocate if they're going to and disclose because if they're episode: going to disclose the fear of those labels coming back
episode: and resurfacing is really, is a real fear for people and is a real challenge episode: and a real stigma that we have to try and break through. episode: And so those ableist language and terms like everyone's a bit dyslexic or, episode: you know, everyone struggles with spelling. That's true. episode: Everyone can struggle with spelling, but we actually have a difficulty that episode: affects us with our spelling altogether.
episode: So we really need to redesign workplaces and classrooms and society in general to be more inclusive, episode: where we can unlock the potential of our entire community that has really historically episode: underestimated and undermined those with dyslexia. episode: And for the first time, we're really looking at what adults want. episode: We haven't had the opportunity in Australia.
episode: I'm not sure why we have the least amount of research in Australia on adulthood episode: dyslexia, particularly compared to other neurodivergent differences. episode: And this really needs to change. So I'll get off my soapbox and let's look at episode: some strategies that can help us moving forward. episode: So we need to dismantle ableist language. episode: So superpower can be an ableist language, just like dumb, stupid, or lazy.
episode: And there's three actual ways we could start to do that. And that's through episode: embracing strength-based labels. episode: Instead of focusing solely on the deficits, let's highlight the strengths and episode: unique ways dyslexic individuals approach problem-solving, lateral thinking. episode: What made by dyslexia is created is a dyslexic thinking term that you can use on LinkedIn now.
episode: Whether that resonates with you or not, I'm not sure, but it really is trying episode: to look at one of those positive terms. episode: And for employers to really start to frame dyslexics and dyslexia as an asset episode: to their organisation, not a challenge, because really when we've got the right episode: supports in place, we are an episode: asset to organisations and our research is starting to demonstrate that.
episode: Also, that we need to create psychologically safe environments in schools, episode: in workplaces and beyond. episode: Many participants shared experiences of shame or fear of disclosing their dyslexia, episode: especially in the workplace. episode: So by fostering open communication, offering accommodations without judgment, episode: we can start to create environments where people feel safe to be their true, authentic selves.
episode: And that's what we want, is that everyone in society can be their true, episode: authentic self and that it's okay to be different. episode: And then educate and advocate constantly. What we're doing is educating and episode: advocating, and this is what this research is doing. episode: We need to start reducing the misconceptions about dyslexia that persist across society.
episode: Educators, employers and policymakers need to train, be trained to understand episode: dyslexia beyond reading difficulties. episode: They need to start recognising its diverse impacts from processing speed to episode: working memory challenges to significant mental health challenges that we can episode: face, burnout, poor self-esteem, episode: lower overall well-being outcomes compared to the general population, episode: higher rates of suicide attempts and anxiety and depression.
episode: All these things could be reduced if there was better understanding of how to episode: support and work with dyslexic adults. episode: So at the core of this research, it really highlights that labels are not just episode: words, they're tools of power and used thoughtfully, they can validate experiences and open doors. episode: Used carelessly, they can marginalise and exclude and cause significant harm to individuals.
episode: By listening to the voices of dyslexic adults, as this study has done, episode: we can start to build a society that truly values those with dyslexia. episode: And I think it really indicates the need to start having dyslexics at the table, episode: whether it's a neurodivergent conversation, whether it's looking at the medical episode: model, whether it's looking at policy change and what supports are in place. episode: Dyslexics need to be at the table in the workplace and education.
episode: It's not just the parents now. We're moving beyond just parents into adulthood episode: and dyslexic individuals need to be there. episode: And we're not right now. We're not in the neurodivergent conversation. episode: We're not in any policy change. episode: There's no Senate inquiry into dyslexia. There's no dyslexia strategy being put together. episode: And so government in particular really needs to start thinking about why is this happening?
episode: Why are we not there compared to other neurodivergent conditions? episode: So to all the dyslexics listening today, thank you. your experience matters, episode: your voice matters, and you are more than just your labels. episode: And to our allies, it's time to rethink how we speak about and support dyslexics, episode: because everyone deserves the opportunity to thrive, and we deserve to start episode: being at the table, listened to, and included in these conversations.
episode: To find out more about the research paper, you can head to .com.au, episode: and the research paper is available for you to download and read further. episode: So once again thank you for listening and I look forward to speaking to you episode: next month with our latest guest which will be Rob on dyscalculia. episode: So that will be an exciting and interesting conversation to have around how episode: we can better support young people and adults who have dyscalculia.
episode: So thank you for tuning in to this podcast around my research and let's continue episode: to advocate, learn and build a more inclusive world together. Until then, bye for now. outro: If you haven't done so already, make sure you sign up to our mailing list so outro: you can keep up to date with everything we're doing at Rethink Dyslexia.
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