We Might All Be Dead By Then with Chelsea + Catherine

Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea, how are you.

Today's a solo episode, and we do solo episodes everybody so that we can take more callers.

Yes, we just rock and roll right on threat we did.

I mean the last time we did this, we took like six calls and there were one really long one, so that was good.

We got a lot of fucking worked on. And do we really do for all of our patients.

We're just like, you know, healing people, helping people get divorced.

I have some updates from callers.

Okay, I love this part.

Okay, this is from Maggie.

Maggie had written in way back in our Katie Kuric episode her husband has battled addiction, started an affair with a coworker, and she said it felt a lot like a relapse, so she was trying to let go of the marriage. Dear Chelsea, I wanted to update you since it's been a little over a year since I was on the show. I want to start by saying thank you to both you and Katie Kuric. The advice and book recommendations you gave me were a lifeline at a

Oh love it, Oh yeah love blah blah blah blah blah blah love.

Since we spoke, I have officially divorced my cheating ex husband, and a weight has been lifted from my life.

Nice look at you.

My life shifted from worrying about him and his knees and his sobriety to worrying about me, myself and I and oh my god, life is amazing. I was so scared to do life on my own, but here I am doing it and loving it. After moving on from my ex, I entered the dating scene for the first time as a fully formed adult, and while it's often a shit show, I've had some great experiences. In the past year.

I've had the best sex in my life, had more time to focus on the things I love, poured more of my energy into my friendships, and devoted myself to building a life that I adore. I have a much better sense of self worth and know that if and when I meet someone, they will only have a shot with me if they're on my level. I always thought i'd write in an update when I found my new happily ever after, and then it hit me today that I have my happily ever after is me thanks from

That could have been like the prologue for my new book.

Ooh, I fucking love it right fucking right on exactly you and yourself.

That is the love story between you and yourself.

Yes, that's how I felt.

In her Jane Fond episode when we chatted with her, it was like, you know, we talked about her previous loves in her life, and it just like seems like she's found herself in you know, this last decade of her life, and it's just so exciting to see women come into their own and be their own people. Yeah, it's fabulous. I have a half update and a half question.

Well, it's been interesting. At first.

The X and I would see each other around once or twice a month at friend gatherings and remain friendly but distant. After about six months, he offered to have coffee and reconnect, which I accepted. We had a cathartic conversation about our breakup, and then he wanted to hear about my dating life. I didn't really want to talk about it, but he was insistent, reassuring me he could handle it. He cried and confessed he hasn't dated at all and it's all still too soon.

This little coffee date.

Changed the nature of our dynamic moving forward. At hangouts and parties, he became more flirty and was always trying to catch my eye, and my friends would try to buffer. I started to get tired of the casual dating scene and began entertaining getting back with him.

I should have written you then.

To make a long story short, in June we kiss at a party and within a month we agreed to try things out again. Now I can't help, but think it was a big mistake. We go on dates, and when I'm with him, I really enjoy his company, But when we're not together, I barely think about him or try to communicate. I can't tell if I'm being emotionally avoidant or if I don't like him as much anymore. And maybe I was chasing a feeling I missed, not a person. My twenty three year old brain is so

Bella, what's the problem?

She was like trying to be friends with her ex, and we were like, give them some space, and they have like the same friend groups, so they're gonna run.

Into each other. Yeah, I think you're not that into him anymore.

I don't. It doesn't sound like it.

If you're not thinking about them when you're not with them, that's all you need to know.

Yeah.

Yeah, And I also think you don't need to beat yourself up about kissing him.

When you like someone, that's all you think about, ding ding ding.

Right, So yeah, move on.

Yeah, okay, good job, Bella. And you're twenty three, it's okay to like kiss. Oh yeah, don't beat yourself up either, Bella. That is annoying. Don't do that.

Yeah, you're twenty three years old and you're a human being.

Everyone fucks up and it's not even a fuck up, it's just yeah, recidivism.

Speaking of vercidivism, Brad. I started watching this show, Brad, what is it called?

And god oj died? God serious speak, Brad.

What's that show called about the jail that's trying this experiment?

I think it's called a jail experiment?

Whoopsie did at all?

It's on Netflix.

There's a prison in like Kansas or something, and they are trying like a European model of while they're still incarcerated. They like open all the doors and there's no guards inside the actual cell block and they can just like come and go and they have to form their own community within the jail.

It's pretty interesting.

Oh and does that how does that working out?

I've only seen episode three, so, but I mean.

It seems to be like nobody's killing each other. It seems to be working out.

Yeah, give it time though, because although the guards probably cause half of that distress, leave them alone and treat them like human beings, maybe.

They'll completely Like they were being kept in their cells for like twenty three hours a day, I'm like that, it's basically a solitary confinement.

Anyone would go crazy and be horrible in that situation. So I don't know. I'm really interested to see what happens.

Because like in Norway and stuff, they just like they don't have any walls or locks or anything.

Everyone could just leave if they want, but they're not supposed.

To in prison.

In prison really oh yeah, it's completely It's like they're out in the field.

They've got places where they live and they're not supposed to go anywhere, but there's no walls.

It's I don't know, things are working in some different places.

Show is called Unlocked a jail experiment to jail experiment.

Well, I was closed, Yes, Chelsea, Yes, I'm Chelsea.

Who are you? And Catherine? You're Catherine and I'm Chelsea. I am so Catherine.

What do we want people to write in about this week?

I mean STDs? Oh yeah, making a comeback STDs.

They're having a moment.

Yeah, because people have been talking about it a lot lately. I'm like, it's something going around and.

Well, right in to us about your STD questions.

Yes, please do.

Yeah, we can always have an expert on who who we can deal.

With, a gynecological expert like my father.

Yeah, and write in about your gynecological stuff too.

Or write in about your massages.

Because I had a questionable massage the other day and he floated past my pikachu a couple times. I had panties on, I had full panty protection. I actually put a full panty on for double protection, and I was and he swept my coslap this area twice, but he touched my vagina in between my legs and then he did it again and I and then I was like, oh, I'm going to have to say stop thing.

And then he didn't do it again.

But I was about to say sir, like I couldn't believe I had to say something. Yeah, I stopped sweeping my vagina. Had he been different looking, I would have been more open to the sweeping of the vagina, but that was not my type.

Were you saying you have friends or one of your friends was telling us that there's someone out in Beverly Hills who's like.

The guy the people go to to get out an orgasm. I guess, oh, I don't remember that.

No, maybe those from a different Yes, maybe.

Sounds like it. Catherine's been moonlighting.

I'm great at massages, Chelsea. Should we take a break and get to some callers.

Yes, let's take a break and we'll be right back. And we're back. This is a caller Bonanza episode.

Truly, So this one actually is just an email.

So oh okay, Stephanie says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a forty six year old mother of three who recently joined a gym. Although I'm making some physical gains at the gym, these gains are overshadowed by a dip in my self confidence. My male instructor has taken two screaming at me when my form is off or I'm making a small error. There's a constant correction to the point where I leave there feeling happy I completed the workout, but defeated for letting him scream at me.

Sit strangers loo off? Do you I mean, do you fuck with this this boot camp stuff?

No? No, I don't do that.

No, that's no, thank you.

I'm also conscious of my upbringing that included lots of screaming and that others, mostly women in the room, may be triggered by that approach. Is there a way to let him know this approach is not working for me and still retain a good relationship and work on my fitness goals. Should I speak to him in person? Or can I send him a well crafted email? I don't want to quit, but I also don't want this dynamic to continue. Help me find my inner strength so I can continue to work on the outside.

Well, can't you just go to a different class?

Yeah, I think it's like a like a one on one, But yeah, I would say change instructor.

Absolutely, just change instructors. You don't have to owe him anything. Just go this This style isn't working for me. You don't even have to explain yourself unless it's like the trainer that the gym provides you, in which case you can still change.

Yeah, trainer more than one and.

For some reason, if you can't change trainers, absolutely say in person, Listen, the screaming and nailing doesn't work for me. Like I'm actually trying to build my confidence, yeah, you know, not deplete it, and that to me is a trigger.

And there's someone overseeing all these trainers, so like go to the manager be like, hey, I need to switch, Like this isn't.

Yeah, it's not a big deal to switch trainers.

Yeah, I'd be like, I want someone who is supportive or classes.

It sounds like other women are in the class, right, I like classes classes. No, No, she's saying I don't know how the other women feel.

I think she's saying, like the other women that are just around hearing.

Which I get.

Oh yeah that's a great thing to bring up too.

Yeah, Like I would tell the manager like this doesn't work for me, and I do worry about other people like just hearing screaming in the background.

But I don't know.

I guess it does work for some people, because some people love those boot camp things.

It's not my style.

No, my personal trainer that I started working with, she has almost no personality. And I was talking to someone about it and I'm like, you know, she doesn't make conversation. I mean I worked with her for like six months before she even asked me like what I do for a living? Like the basics, right, and my friend was just like, maybe you don't want to have a conversation with your trainer, Like maybe you just want to like stand there in silence between your sets.

And I was like, you know, maybe that's true.

That's how I am with Ben Bruno. We barely speak really well.

I mean we talk, but we have such a shorthand it's like, yes, I've done plenty of workouts where we haven't said a.

Word to each other. I love that I do too.

There's no pressure for me being like a Midwestern like people please are conversation.

I think it's a good practice because it's good yeah, because sometimes people don't want to fucking talk.

It's good to be able to pick up on that as well.

First I was like kind of upset about it, and then I was like, no.

I'm just gonna let this happen and work on your body and actually focus on what you're doing.

Perfect and now a big round ass and I love it. Look at you, Chelsea. I have a couple of friends calling in. They are Chrissy and Melanie, and Chrissy's in her forties, Melanie's and her fifties. Dear Chelsea, I'm an avid listener who has always wanted to write in, but I have had a hard time narrowing down my laundry list of advice needed. When you said you were looking for a couple or friends to come on the show, I knew you were speaking to me. My best friend

Or gulp?

Is this a me problem that I need to work on accepting your situation and not sticking my head into their business. Also, we've already considered becoming late in life lesbians and blending our families, but for some reason, we're both still attracted to men. Ugh, thank you for any help with this, Chrissy and Melanie.

Hi, ladies, where are we Okay, there's Melanie. Hi, Melanie, Hi, Okay, we're waiting for Chrissy. Hold on, Hi, Christy, how are you hi?

Guys?

Hi, thanks for calling in. I love I love friendship stuff. So this is great.

So Chrissy Okay, So you explained to us in your letter very comprehensively how you feel about Melanie's on an off boyfriend of five years. So Melanie, what do you have to say? You know how Chrissy feels about him, right?

I do? And I absolutely respect everything she says to me all the time. It's one of those things that's really it's really hard for me. Sometimes I feel like it's not hard for me to give up. It's hard for me to hurt him, right, And there's a lot of family dynamic that is starting to make it easier for me to, you know, sometimes think.

About going that way, going what way?

To break up with him?

Okay, because my daughter does not like him at all, and that's a big thing.

You know. I don't want to be that mom that is.

Like, you know, she says, oh, well, you can't come over for Thanksgiving because she doesn't want my boyfriend to come over.

I don't want her to. I don't want to be in that position, right. It's tough, very.

Tough, and you're worried about hurting him. I mean, do you feel like you're happy in this relationship?

Not one hundred percent. I feel like he is secure.

Like financially, emotionally.

Financial, even though he doesn't really do financial things for me. But I know that in the end that I won't have to worry.

That sounds really horrible.

Yeah, can I clarify something really quick, Melanie, because Chrissy, when I read this email, I was like, oh, so he gave you a ring early on, and Chrissy clarified he hasn't actually given you the ring, he just owns it, right, So you're not engaged.

Nope, we are not engaged.

What is your take on this ring situation? That he's kind of holding it over you?

So I feel that he has like hung it in front of me many times, and every time we talk about it, there's always a different reason as to why we shouldn't move forward, and typically it's well, your daughter doesn't like me, we need to get her on board, or well, now we're having problems with your mom, or now we can't spend as much time together, And honestly, even if we were to get engaged and married, we wouldn't even be able to live together until, like I

Time anyway, It would be a weird dynamic.

And what is your daughter? What doesn't she like about him?

He has no children, so he tends to act like a child at times because he's never had to raise kids.

And are you attracted to that?

Well, I thought it was attracted to the fact that he didn't have kids, right, But the childish behavior is not attractive at all.

No, it sounds like he's actually quite unattractive on multiple levels. And you are holding onto an idea about something that may or may not happen in the future and looking at that financial dependency as a reason to stay in when he's exhibited all of the signs that he will never be able to take care of you in his comfort zone. Not that he won't be able to, he won't take care of you, because if he was going to take care of you, he would want to start right away.

Yeah, you'd have already done it.

Yeah, so you're waiting for The one positive thing you said about him was that he's financially secure, and I'm here to tell you that his financial security will have nothing to do with you.

Also, like you're dating in the age group that has the most financial security, that should be something that's like pretty easy to find someone who's like got their shit together.

I'm sure it is.

I mean, and I'm not unable to take care of myself. I mean, I have been taking care of myself my whole life, so it's not well.

I would argue that you're not taking care of yourself. Actually, I think that you are not taking care of yourself by allowing yourself to be in and out of a five year relationship with someone that your friend who dearly loves you is telling you she doesn't like, and then your daughter is telling you she doesn't like.

If you can't.

Listen to those two people, they know better than you do about this situation than you do, because you're in it, and these are two people that you trust and love over time, I really would implore you to listen to them. They have your best interests. I promise you know they do. This guy does not have your best interest, and I'm not even sure you have your best interest right now.

You're probably right.

I definitely feel like some you know, I need to let go. It's hard to let go when you're so used to something.

I understand.

But the biggest issue for me is my daughter. I love her more than life, as I'm sure you can understand, and I don't ever want want to do anything to hurt her. And when we have conversations and she's like, mom, I just don't like him, and I'm sitting there going.

What do I do?

You know, like, Okay, I know what to do, but it's really it's hard.

No, I know it's so hard to make that move. I know it is, but you have to because listen, this is your daughter. You're showing her what is acceptable. You're showing and demonstrating to her, even if she says she'll never do that. You are exhibiting for her what she thinks is going to be okay at some point down the line because she saw her own mother do it. So you care about your daughter. She's the most important thing in the world to you. You love her more than anything.

Break up.

Somebody gets hurt in a breakup all the time. You'll get hurt, He'll get hurt. This is not the man for you.

He's just not.

So.

In order for you to like go and find somebody that is gonna be respected by your best friend here, Chrissy and your daughter, you have to get out of this relationship because there is something waiting for you that is going to be much more fulfilling and much more life altering and welcomed by the people that love you instead of dismissed or rejected.

Do you know what I mean?

All you have to do is make the move and you'll get to the next part of your great life. I promise you you're financially secure. Don't depend on anybody who is not bringing tons of shit to your table.

Joy bringing joy?

Yeah, joy for sure.

Chrissy.

Can you tell us a few things that you love about Melanie and what kind of joy you would love to see brought into her life?

Yes?

Is it okay if I cry?

Yeah?

Yes, I love you, Chris.

That's nice.

Melanie is the strongest woman I know.

I met her when she was just going through a divorce, she opened up a cigar shop, she had an all male clientele.

She put these guys in their place. She rides a Harley. She is like a tough chick.

And I hate to see that this man is having this control over her because I know how amazing she is. I know she's a great mom. I'm also a single mom. She was there for me whenever I had my son. We always talk about how we're going to end up in a house in a New Hampshire making goat smoke soap and running a farm someday.

That sounds so much like so much fun, you guys.

Yeah, it does nice, Yeah.

With our kids and grandkids, and it sounds like a great time.

Yeah, it does sound like a great time. Melanie. You know what you need to do.

I do.

And I definitely appreciate hearing it from you, Thank you very much. And I appreciate hearing it from Chrissy. I want to make sure that she knows that. And I don't discount what she says because she is such an amazing friend, and she tries to stay neutral, and I know it's hard for her to stay neutral, and I don't want her to feel that she has to stay neutral with me. I want her to feel that she can say whatever she wants to be, which she does, so you know, I appreciate the advice.

And Chelsea, you're even more beautiful in person.

Ah you are too, Melanie, Thank you.

Start acting like it.

I know that.

I mean, this is a powerful friendship.

When Chrissy wrote in and I read that, Ema, I'm like, there's no way she doesn't get her friend on the call with this, you know, because you said you hadn't like really addressed it yet, but here you are.

It's just such a beautiful friendship. Yeah, versus the person. Melanie is thanking her friend Chrissy for intervening and even for demonstrating this and loving like it's so beautiful. You guys don't even You just need each other and you'll be happy.

Yeah, thank you and your.

Daughter of course, yes, and her son.

Yeah.

But I promise you, once you make this decision, and once you are able to go through with breaking it off, you are going to feel a weight like an.

Albatross lifted off of your shoulders.

I promise you your future is going to be brighter and lighter without this person in it.

Yeah. I agree.

I mean I've been there in that position, and then I've come back and I think, why did I do that?

Yeah? Do you have thoughts about making it stick, Chelsea?

I mean I think you just have to go. I think you have to write that stuff down. You have to be like, I'm done with this relationship and I'm ready to move forward, Like I'm ready to move forward in my life and in my relationship with Chrissy, my relationship with my daughter. And it's not even about men coming up, but like the recidivism, which is a word we threw around recently, going back and forth with relationships

No, I don't think I will. I'm you know, I'm committed to caring for my family. I'm committed to taking care of my mom and you know, making sure that she I don't like to talk about her dying, but I mean I'm committed to making sure that she is comfortable and I will never put her in a home.

Yeah, which puts.

Me in a in a position, but it's a position that I've I've chosen.

Exactly, and you're strong.

Like you're strong, you can stay away from a person if you really desire to do that.

It's not like you don't have control over yourself.

You do, and you want to demonstrate that for your daughter more important than anything else. You want to show her that you that you took it upon yourself to walk away from him out of respect, partially for her feelings. You know that means a lot, and I would I would expect any mother to behave that way and understand and respect.

Their children's feelings.

Your children don't get to decide who you go out with, but if they are that bothered by somebody, you have to look at that.

Yeah.

No, yeah.

I when I before Brad, I was in a really toxic, negative situation and I thought I was in love with this person.

I thought I was in love with this person for a long time.

And it took everyone in my life who loved me, my family, my friends who knew him, my friends who didn't really know him but had heard about him, these people who all loved me. It took so long of them saying like this is not for you. I finally had to be like I think this is still the right thing for me. But if all these people who just care about me are saying it's not good, I'm

And it was the best decision I ever made.

And you met your person after that, I did you never said with somebody exactly if I hadn't broken that off, I actually would never have been I would never have moved cities and met Brown.

So you don't have to move, Melanie. Just get away from that guy.

Yeah, no, I'm definitely not moving it at this point, that's for sure.

We'll wait until we're ye set Chrissy and I are set financially and we can have our little harem. I love it with our goats and soap and all that.

I love this plan yoga else.

That reminds me of the saying where the crow flies?

I don't know why, but I thought I would just throw that in for the mix, because I didn't understand what that's saying meant for. Like I think I had to ask someone last week. I'm like, where does the crow fly where? We're like, oh, it's the most direct route I'm like, what that's.

What that's saying is about? What's the point? Just say the fastest way to get there.

Anyway, Thanks girls, Thank you, Chrissy, thanks for calling in, and thanks Melanie. Have a great rest of your relationship because it's going to be over soon.

And and I'm sure Chrissy will touch base with you until you have.

And that doesn't have to be a sad part. Yeah, like that can be a celebration also, sure.

And then go out and buy yourself a ring.

Yeah, by yourself a ring?

Yeah exactly, that's right, a great idea. Yeah, Christy will go together.

Yes, yes, okay, bye girls, bye, thank you.

I felt like at some point during that, I felt like, you know when you bring you go to therapy and with couples therapy and you're like just waiting for the doctor to say you're just waiting for them to go in on your partner and you're just sitting there, like Christy was sitting there just and I'm like, don't worry, honey, I'm coming Like that's I wanted to say, don't worry, I got your back, Like I'm going in.

Yeah, And I was like, we got to get Christy in here. Because she's just like loving on her friends.

So yeah, that was really pretty friendship. That is so nice and so well received. It's very gracious when people receive criticism like that, even though it's not about her, it is about her because she's participating in a relationship with somebody who's not doesn't value her.

And she, I mean, Christy just loves Melanie. That's her only motivation here, right. It's like, if someone thinks that you should break up with someone who's toxic, it's not because they want something bad for you.

It's because they want the best for you, you know so. And I also think there was a really good lesson in here too.

We you know, constantly are like, address the situation with your friend or your whoever you're having the issue with, bring it up, talk about it, get it out. And this is a situation where they had the hard conversation and the person wasn't upset about it.

She was receptive.

Yes, right exactly, Yeah, yeah, so right, a perfect example.

You can go, yeah, yeah, well let's do an email and then we'll come back with Marguerite. This is from Cindy. She's in her forties. Dear Chelsea, last year I left a fifteen year marriage. I'm finally at the point where I'm at peace with my divorce and my new life. I'm comfortable being single, enjoy the freedom of not having to answer to anyone, love being a mother to my boys, and I'm in the position to pursue whatever I want professionally and personally.

Nice. Yeah, fucking so crushing it.

Yeah, I currently have a friend with benefits. Well, I don't believe I could actively have sex with multiple partners. My FWB has made it very clear he wants to explore sex with multiple women using protection.

He was WB's fuck fuck buddy, a.

Friend with BENEFI oh sorry, which that's actually an important distinction that I want to get into with those email. He was married for sixteen years and a virgin before that, so I understand his desire to explore sex. I'm wrestling with the idea of dating and relationships in my forties as a newly single woman.

I'm not sure that I.

Truly want to settle down, but I also foresee wanting someone to enjoy life with within ten years. My only concern is that I want my FWB to eventually want monogamy with me, and I'll end up getting hurt.

The sex is amazing.

We enjoy spending time together and engage in deep, meaningful conversations. Our values other than this align. Am I setting myself up for hurt with my FWB? Or should I just enjoy the ride, Cindy.

Enjoy the fucking ride. When people tell you something, leave them, you know, just believe it. Just take that at face value. Don't look for a hidden meeting or maybe they'll come around. No, they just fucking told you they want to fuck other people. So as long as you're okay with that, be with them, enjoy the sex, and you fuck.

Other people too, Yeah, and like date other people, like you can just like have.

A lot of actually thinking so far ahead into the future too, we could all be dead by then. Like, just enjoy what is happening in this moment as much as you possibly can. And if you get too attached to this person who is unavailable, then you need to dismantle that relationship and go, yeah, sex with someone else. And you know it's not just like people don't just like turn into what you want them to be.

I think friends with benefits is like the most confusing thing, because I.

Think that is a great arrangement.

Well, like fuck buddy to me is like they come over, you have sex, you're friendly, and.

Then they like right, oh yeah, right right, okay, Okay, we're.

Having these deep conversations or like connecting, Like you can't not catch feelings of that situation.

When you are talking about things. Yes, of course you're gonna get your feelings about that.

Yeah, So I think kick him out after it's over, and then like stop trying to have a friendship.

It's fuck buddy, right, That's what I think.

I think, fuck buddy, yeah.

And then also have additional fuck buddies.

Yeah yeah, layer, layer up. Okay.

So this is from Marguerite. Dear Chelsea. I had a baby five months ago. I'm thirty eight, single and did it on my own and it's been awesome.

Nice.

Literally the day I gave birth, my lifelong friend John introduced me to his new boyfriend. A week postpartum, John told me that he and his new boyfriend were engaged and getting married in just a few short months. John met his boyfriend on a dating app. His boyfriend is from Columbia. John doesn't speak Spanish and this boyfriend does not speak English, so they communicate solely through Google Translate. I tried to be as supportive as possible and had

Sorry, this is long winded.

I just would like advice on how to navigate the end of one of my closest friendships and the misinformation around an innocuous day, and how to get my friend back if I can. Thanks so much, Marguerite, Hi, Hi guy, Hi Marguerite.

How are you good?

Thanks for having me?

Yeah, for sure.

So I have a couple questions that I want to clarify. First of all, how supposedly did you offend the boyfriend?

Do you speak Spanish?

I don't, so.

How could you even have offended him?

That's the thing. It's all such a mystery.

Did you ask them when you heard from them? What happened?

Well, I got blocked. And this is like a thirty year friend, Like we didn't text, like maybe texting to like confirm where we were meeting up, but I just got a text saying it's over. And then he like, I don't have social media, but my mom does. My mom told me that he blocked around all the social media. It was just over.

It's so strange.

So and I asked everybody, and I was the most sober one by miles, and I asked everybody, like, does anybody notice anything weird happen? Anything, nothing that's so strange. I also have this question, do you know for sure?

I mean, obviously the mother emailed you as well, But could it have been this boyfriend texting you from your friend's phone.

Because he doesn't speak English or he didn't I mean unless there's like a but.

If he doesn't speak English and the other guy doesn't speak Spanish.

They use Google Translate when they communicate, this.

Must be I watch a lot of Ninety Day Fiance, so this is fascinating to me.

Can you imagine thirty years.

And you didn't respond to his mother?

So I did?

I did?

What did you say that?

I was trying to be like enlightened, and I just said, I think you need to check on your son because I didn't want to defend myself right like I didn't because the more I defend, the more it looks like you know that check on your kid because nothing happened.

Well, listen, I don't know what you can do because obviously.

I want her to go stock him at work and like go be like can we talk? Can we get coffee?

Yeah?

I mean I would try a little bit harder to find out, Like send him an email and be like, listen, I have asked everyone at that wedding. I was completely sober at that wedding. I don't speak Spanish. I would like to know exactly what I did to deserve the ending of a thirty year friendship. It feels very abrupt, and it feels like very undeserving, and you've caused me a lot of heartache.

And I don't even know what I did.

How could I have offended him if I don't speak Spanish and he speaks Spanish only.

How so it was my son's baptism, and his mother wrote in the email, this was verbatim that I used my son as a weapon of hate. In the email, I.

Mean, what does that even mean.

I was literally like eating my eggplanted rollatiny, being like like they're boring. This stuff is boring. Baptisms are boring. These are just the events that we go through. Yeah, it was so innocuous.

I feel like you. I mean, you can send the email.

I wouldn't get your hopes up about a reasonable response, because if it is this control thing that you're thinking, then there's nothing you're gonna be able to do you know what I mean, as long as he's married to that guy. But you can try one more time to open up that conversation. To be like this is very upsetting, especially when I'm not you were at my baptism. I can't imagine what I did to deserve a weapon of hate. Like that's very strong language.

Yeah, And I.

Mean if you're blocked on email, maybe it's like a letter to his work or something like something physical that you can get through, because it just it just feels so confusing, and I think i'd let him know, like I'm so confused. I don't know what happened. Can we can we talk? Can we meet? And even if the relationship can't be repaired right now while he's in this, like let him know that you love him and you're here.

But it's almost like do I still love him?

Like not?

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know.

How are you feeling about the loss of friendship other than confused?

I think I started as really like I started with sadness. I mean, this was like not just like a text check in friend. This was one of my closest friends since third grade. Like I mean I saw him once a week and minimum. We had spent Christmas together, Thanksgivings, like we were family, Like my mother considered him another son, like he was a part of my tribe. He was one of my people. And so I felt really abandoned,

Yeah, you're shutting it.

Down so quickly because you know there's no room for rationality.

Yeah, I think I think you're absolutely right about that. And like you said, you worked in mental health. You can like see when someone's being blatantly controlled, and that's like very clear that's what's happening here.

But I think you owe it to both of you.

Clear, I mean, is that clear?

I think it is.

It's very mysterious, like how can you control someone when you can't speak the same language.

Good question.

I have a friend who went through this actually with someone that she she was actually the immigrant. She was from Canada, and she was like trying to stay here and she like stayed with a guy who told her she couldn't talk to her two gay best friends anymore because they had introduced her to her ex. What cut her off from the rest of us who are like neighbors and friends, cut her off from her own family. I mean, that's what these people do, like bad boyfriends.

But that's what they think.

That's one option. That's not the option. Right, You didn't know anything? I mean, did you get that impression leading up?

Well, I was postpartum as a single mom, right like, so I wasn't like spending my energy. But I did obviously think about it, and I got this sense that they didn't know each other very well. But I also kept that in because I knew that the more I told John my concerns, the more he was going to run into the arms of this guy. I also believe everyone has agency and can make decisions on their own time.

Well, that's really lame.

I mean, yeah, of course, it's hugely disappointing, and I would just walk away from it if you can, because it's you're almost opening up a wound where you're not going to get or you're going to get some bullshit story that they don't even know. But the fact that he did ditch you for somebody who needed a green card that he had known for thirty one days is pretty much all you need to know about that friendship, right even though it was thirty years, Like, he's not

And then it's like, guess, part of my question too, is what do I do when inevitably he comes crawling back or knocking.

Well, then you have an opportunity to be graceful and to be like, yeah, that was really shitty and sucky, and as long as he's not in that like Hubris that he was in marrying this guy. He's not thinking clearly around that guy and around that situation. And his mother for sending that email, is also not thinking clearly because what is she thinking her She's just watching her son get married to he needs a green guard that he's known for thirty one days, and she's also on the.

Team this guy, this guy, I mean, it doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, I would give him another chance to I mean, just for the sake of the fact.

That you have lapses in judgment and he's having one.

It seems like an important enough relationship to you, and you have so much history that like, hopefully you can eventually get some back of what you had before.

But who knows, you might not have a friendship with him again.

No, I know, because how do you really repair that?

Right?

I said, don't worry about repairing it because you're not there yet. When the time comes, If and when the time comes, I promise you will be able to find it in your bandwidth and heart to go. Oh you know what, it's just happy to see you again. You're back, The real you is back. If and when that happens, it may never happen. So I think for you, you should just try And I think pity is a good

With not having him in your life anymore.

Yeah, after the pedigree, thank you guys, and I'm sorry that happened to you.

That sounds really confusing. Yeah, that's fucking what do they think that you didn't approve of his gay lifestyle? Is that what she means by no?

I think that he I like, I really think if I'm being like honest and zooming out and using my third eye, I think the boyfriend saw, oh, this is someone who has a huge family, huge support in the city, and could eventually become a barrier to me marrying this guy because they married, Like, they disinvited me from their wedding that night and then they went on to get married. So I think it was like the boyfriend saw, oh, she like is a real person. I need to like get her out of the way.

Wow.

Yeah, that does sound very controlling. Them disinviting you to the wedding is very like he's being controlled, because who would do that after a thirty year friendship?

Oh yeah, I'm just going to disinvite my friend.

Yeah, my best friend.

You're that crazy. So there's that normal, seem very normal and with it. And I would focus on the friends that you do have in your life and that's unfortunate, and always reserve a warmth space in your heart for his return. Yeah, thanks guys, And remember, Marguerite, you don't have to deal with anything before it happens, so true.

Yeah, yeah, so just let go.

Yeah, let go, and let us know if he pops back up. Thank you, Okay, thanks Margerite.

Bye.

Oh sweetie, Wow, I'd like to know that story. I know, I want to know what her friend things happened.

Yeah.

It's so weird to me when like a new partner of somebody like takes a friendship as competition, you know.

Right.

Okay, So we're going to take a break and we'll be right back. And we're right back with Catherine and Chelsea and we are wrapping up our solo episode. If you have questions, if you have concerns, you can write into the show, call into the show with your friends. We love couples, we love that dynamic or friend's.

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Wait to way to end the podcast with a grammatical error. My favorite on.

A city near you, on a city which is city near you?

Bye bye bye Okay. So upcoming shows that I have you guys. August seventeenth is the Santa Barbara Bowl. You do not want to miss that. And then I will be all over Maine, Charlotte, North Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina. I'm coming to Texas. I'm coming to Saint Louis and Kansas City, and then I will be in Las Vegas performing at the Chelsea Theater inside the Cosmopolitan Hotel. My first three dates in Vegas our September first, Labor Day weekend,

Okay.

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